[Early B.]

Keeping up with inflation is  definitely relevant, but keeping with the spirit of this circle is really the point at hand.

Here's an idea -- start at the year in which $1,000 became the threshold and re-calculate for inflation. Then we can argue whether or not the new baseline amount is reasonable.

[nlitworld]

Here's an idea -- start at the year in which $1,000 became the threshold and re-calculate for inflation. Then we can argue whether or not the new baseline amount is reasonable.

Yep, did that. Mariusz started it back in 2009 and the $1,000 total system price tag goes to about $1,450 now by comparison. I rounded up to $1,500 to suggest a pinch more wiggle room for fun stuff. 

[VinceT]

Under 1400 bucks for a system is cheap but not sure cheerful it will be...lol

I get it, I'll start threads in the amp and pre amp section when I'm closer to making upgrades. Appreciate the feedback I got. Will keep in mind the perils of older gear.
 

[Early B.]

Yep, did that. Mariusz started it back in 2009 and the $1,000 total system price tag goes to about $1,450 now by comparison. I rounded up to $1,500 to suggest a pinch more wiggle room for fun stuff. 

Sounds good.

If I use Schiit gear as an example and buy new, I can get an amp for $300 (Gjallarhorn), a preamp for $400 (Saga+), and a DAC for $229 (Modius). That's $929 plus $500 for speakers. I'd have to exceed my $1,500 budget to buy a music server, plus I still need cables and maybe a power strip. I'm already knocking on the door of $2K, but it's still a schitty system. No low bass, limited power (10 watts), no frills, no aesthetics, barely mid-fi, etc.     

Another option is Cheap & Cheerful means $500 or less per component because most threads are about specific components, not entire systems. 

[JohnR]

Um, C&C is not only about the price, it's also about (as the tagline says) "Components, systems and ideas for the adventurous." Think outside of the box and have some fun (maybe) while doing so.

If you do that, then I don't think systems have become more expensive. For example, a Wiim amp is $300, which leaves $700 for speakers. A pair of Kali LP6v2 is $400, which leaves $600 for a source component. If you want to label it "mid-fi" then so be it. (This might be a good time to point out/remind folks that there are buttons on the home page that allow you to either ignore circles or create a list of favorite circles )

Many of my friends would not think a $1000 system to be Cheap and Cheerful, it would be an extravagance.

This is the go-to circle when looking for components to recommend for the other 99% of the population.

And there's that too, thank you.

[Letitroll98]

Thanks to John for replying in the thread.  And Vince is not in trouble at all for posting here, it happens all the time and I'm continually moving good threads like Vince's because of pricing guidelines.  Perhaps instead of discussing modifying pricing we should be modifying the circle title with a notice to read the rules before posting or tag the system limit, not sure how to do that.  I believe that if we move the baseline up to a reasonable limit like $1450 that nit suggested we'd still have the same issue just at a higher amount.  So my main focus here is maintaining interest in the circle by not moving good threads and inviting new posts.  Within that discussion note that we cheat all the time.  There's an official wiggle room of $1,200 total and when discussing individual components we say if there's any case for theoretically cobbling an under $1k system including that component we allow it.  Therefore I'm thinking the easiest fix is "Cheap and Cheerful Hi Fi Under $1,000".  The second might be to open up the fudge factor, thinking "around and about $1,000", because on a circle that's suppose to be about having fun why are we imposing strict rules?  Let's let this thread and these thoughts simmer a bit before moving the thread or making any adjustments.

PS, Vince, the circle you'd post in when you get more serious about purchasing would be the Solid State circle, which is where I'd move this one before I changed the topic.

[charmerci]

It seems like the component part of the C&C is quite easy to be priced cheaply - as I'm quite surprised with my SMSL SA-50 pre-amp/amp with a Schitt DAC. Paired with a set of $1000 set of speakers - or maybe even more with a pair of powered speakers, can very likely get someone an excellent sounding system.

[mix4fix]

The Cheap & Cheerful HiFi section should keep up with inflation. Not sure when the $1,000 was established for a complete system, but the pricing of audio gear has doubled in the past few years. AC is for audiophiles and audiophile gear ain't cheap. Today, I'm guessing the cheapest audiophile system you can get on the used market or DIY (integrated amp, speakers, source, and cables) is $2,500. Geez -- the shipping alone on these items could be a few hundred bucks!! I'm not referring to vintage gear from the 70's sold on ebay. I'm thinking of gear since the year 2000. Back in 2000, you could buy a nice pair of used monitors for $500. Today, those same monitors would cost $1,500.

If you set the bar too low (like it is now), then we're no longer talking about high fidelity which is the intent of this circle. Many of us have good reasons to set up a cheap system (garage setup, office, bedroom, children, etc.), but a budget of $1,000 for a complete system will sound like crap. If sound quality doesn't matter for C&C, then disregard my comments.

 

Inflation sucks. That's why I recommended a upper tier bracket for the setup.

C&C is more mid-fi to me. We are not using crappy speakers from a table-top stereo, but not such high end speakers you need a monster tube amplifier to play them. It's an office system. A bedroom system. A garage system. It isn't about critical listening.

[Saturn94]

It seems like the component part of the C&C is quite easy to be priced cheaply - as I'm quite surprised with my SMSL SA-50 pre-amp/amp with a Schitt DAC. Paired with a set of $1000 set of speakers - or maybe even more with a pair of powered speakers, can very likely get someone an excellent sounding system.

This.  Good audio is more affordable than ever!

[VinceT]

My bad for posting in this forum, wasn't aware of the pricing guidelines.  Should have checked before I posted, my apologies.

[FullRangeMan]

My bad for posting in this forum, wasn't aware of the pricing guidelines.  Should have checked before I posted, my apologies.

Glad you posted something. ✅️

[Letitroll98]

My bad for posting in this forum, wasn't aware of the pricing guidelines.  Should have checked before I posted, my apologies.

Not a problem, as noted it happens all the time here.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71233.0

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

I think the issue about buying TOTL gear from 10 to 15 years old is that it may have been worked on by technicians who are sub par. Once the gear has been molested its tough and expensive to get it back to specification.  I've had a couple of issues over the years and only go to Liquid Audio here in Perth.

A lot of gear from the 1970's, 1980s and 1990s is excellent. For example Accuphase make really really good gear. If buying from a new company I'd make sure that they will be around in 10 years or so to enable you to get your gear serviced. 

Good luck with your search.

Cheers Rod

Btw I am well familiar with Spread Spectrum Technologies having had Theobe preamp, Ambrosia, Son of Ampzilla + Mark 2 and Ampzilla monoblocks.

[jgladden36]

Pass labs amps are still very much state of the art IMHO. I believe dCS Vivaldi also fits the bill. I use both in my system with no plans to upgrade.

[rbbert]

I have, and have had, both new and "used" (factory checked and refreshed) Pass Labs integrated amps, pre-amps, stereo and mono amps, always with considerable satisfaction.  With my speakers the XA.5 and XA.8 series sound almost "tubey" but with tight bass and perhaps a little better detail.  I definitely prefer the "XA" series to the "X" series.

[Poultrygeist]

I recently bought a Sony SCD-CE595 at Goodwill for $7.50. I was already familiar with this SACD player as I had purchased one new in 2005 for $150 at BestBuy. In an effort to stimulate interest in their new SACD format it was Sony's lost leader. They must have gone all out with its internals and chip set as its performance is the equal of my $1000 Marantz SACD player. In a double blind test playing identical copies of the same SACD disc and switching inputs back and forth on the same system my wife and I could not distinguish one player from the other.

[Poultrygeist]

If you come across a Zenith tube console from the late 50's or early 60's buy it. Part out everything except for the speakers because those old alnico's are pure gold. These 8" drivers are superior to any full range driver I've tried and I've owned a bunch. They put my 2 grand Lowthers to shame. I bought the donor console for $35 at a local thrift store and sold its mono amp and table on the bay for $125. The original front gaskets were faded beige but I painted them black.

[Poultrygeist]

Here's an example of the 8" Zenith and 16" Sansui woofers in a C&C system that I dare say will rival the best from commercial OB companies. The Sansui woofers were free as they were harvested from a pair of cheap Kabuki's left on the curb. I wish y'all could hear this set up as they literally bring tears to my eyes. I get up before dawn each morning so I can spend a hour in the garage listening to them while shaking my head in disbelief. Don't move this post to the OB forum as they are already there.