[Early B.]

Maybe Warren would let you try out the Weiss OpAmps with your current mono blocks?

Oh, that would be cool. I'll ask him...

UPDATE: I asked and got a quick response - he said I can always purchase the opamps and have 30 days to demo them. That seems fair. My reservation is the price -- the Weisss opamps are $338 per pair x 2 (1 pair per channel). Even if the Weiss opamps are a tad better, not sure if the improvement is worth $676.   

[abd1]

Careful, it's a slippery slope!!  These are the different tube amps I have right now:  Type 45 SET (2 watts), 2a3 SET (4 watts), 300b SET (7 watts), 6L6 SEP (10 watts), EL84 Push-Pull (12 watts), 6c33c SET (18 watts) and KT66 Push-Pull (40 watts).  AND I just bought a 211/845 SET amp to replace my SS monoblock amps.  Good lord, now that I write it out, its actually crazy.  I am a crazy person

What are the 211/845 mono's that you acquired? Love 845's.

[abd1]

I'm not a Spatial owner, but would love to check out the X-series one day. I am using Cube Nenuphar Mini's, which are great but not flawless. Anyway, I was reading this thread because I just spent 3 months using the LSA Voyager 350 ganfet amp. I usually run tubes, but during the summer they get too hot so I use something else. Since my speakers like amps with little or no negative feedback and I wanted something that ran cool I decided to try the LSA. I've tried Class D before and never loved it. Sounded ok and all the detail was there but just never felt engaged into the music. The LSA was the first class D I could live with and really enjoyed. I originally planned to sell the LSA after summer but I enjoyed it so much I'm thinking I might keep it for next summer. I just hooked my 845 tube amp back up and actually miss some of what the LSA brought. My system is Auralic G1 --> Holo Audio May KTE --> Holo Audio Serene KTE --> LSA or tube amp --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's + 2 Rel S/510s, all plugged into a PS Audio P12 regenerator. With the LSA there was amazing detail but also a crystal clear transparency. String plucks sounded like you were listening with a stethoscope and could hear every micro detail. Voices captured every nuance and inflection. It was almost hyper-detailed, but never harsh, dry or etched. When I plugged my LM518 845 amp back in yesterday I did lose some of that extra detail. With the LSA, piano sounded like you were in the piano. With the tube amp, you're at a concert in row 10. I do like the tubes however for the more liquid mid-range. There's an organic sound with tubes that just sounds right to me, but I love having this ganfet amp around in case I want to change the flavor or play with other speakers (I did use it for a month with some Usher BE718's and it sounded fantastic too). While the Nenuphar Mini's are not Sapphires, both are relatively efficient and I would highly recommend checking this amp out if you're looking for class D.

[DBT AUDIO]

Oh, that would be cool. I'll ask him...

UPDATE: I asked and got a quick response - he said I can always purchase the opamps and have 30 days to demo them. That seems fair. My reservation is the price -- the Weisss opamps are $338 per pair x 2 (1 pair per channel). Even if the Weiss opamps are a tad better, not sure if the improvement is worth $676.

Some spend several thousands on incremental upgrades with no trial period for returns.  So, I agree that $676.00 may not be worth it, but it’s not bad compared to how expensive this hifi hobby can be!

[Early B.]

Some spend several thousands on incremental upgrades with no trial period for returns.  So, I agree that $676.00 may not be worth it, but it’s not bad compared to how expensive this hifi hobby can be!

I get it. I've done it. The difference this time is if I had ordered the Zeiss opamps from the beginning, the additional cost would have only been $185. So I have a mental block about paying another $676 with zero resale value. In fact, it might be more cost-effective to sell my amp and re-buy it with Zeiss opamps.   

[DBT AUDIO]

I get it. I've done it. The difference this time is if I had ordered the Zeiss opamps from the beginning, the additional cost would have only been $185. So I have a mental block about paying another $676 with zero resale value. In fact, it might be more cost-effective to sell my amp and re-buy it with Zeiss opamps.   

Given your scenario, I understand.  Lol...  You'd probably lose money because you won't get full value for the resale.  However, if the Weiss OpAmps don't outperform your current module, RETURN with the quickness!

[Tyson]

What are the 211/845 mono's that you acquired? Love 845's.

A Japanese company called SunValley.

[DBT AUDIO]

I'm not a Spatial owner, but would love to check out the X-series one day. I am using Cube Nenuphar Mini's, which are great but not flawless. Anyway, I was reading this thread because I just spent 3 months using the LSA Voyager 350 ganfet amp. I usually run tubes, but during the summer they get too hot so I use something else. Since my speakers like amps with little or no negative feedback and I wanted something that ran cool I decided to try the LSA. I've tried Class D before and never loved it. Sounded ok and all the detail was there but just never felt engaged into the music. The LSA was the first class D I could live with and really enjoyed. I originally planned to sell the LSA after summer but I enjoyed it so much I'm thinking I might keep it for next summer. I just hooked my 845 tube amp back up and actually miss some of what the LSA brought. My system is Auralic G1 --> Holo Audio May KTE --> Holo Audio Serene KTE --> LSA or tube amp --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's + 2 Rel S/510s, all plugged into a PS Audio P12 regenerator. With the LSA there was amazing detail but also a crystal clear transparency. String plucks sounded like you were listening with a stethoscope and could hear every micro detail. Voices captured every nuance and inflection. It was almost hyper-detailed, but never harsh, dry or etched. When I plugged my LM518 845 amp back in yesterday I did lose some of that extra detail. With the LSA, piano sounded like you were in the piano. With the tube amp, you're at a concert in row 10. I do like the tubes however for the more liquid mid-range. There's an organic sound with tubes that just sounds right to me, but I love having this ganfet amp around in case I want to change the flavor or play with other speakers (I did use it for a month with some Usher BE718's and it sounded fantastic too). While the Nenuphar Mini's are not Sapphires, both are relatively efficient and I would highly recommend checking this amp out if you're looking for class D.

I just read about the LSA Voyager GaN 350 on the Underwood Hifi website.  Thanks for adding to the list of class D contenders.

[jnschneyer]

I love my  Don Sachs amp.  If it had 300 Watts I’d stop looking.  And now for the first time I’ve ever (slow learner !), I’m not looking for a replacement but an amp to Roll (thanks Tyson for that bank draining idea!).

Serious question. Do you really feel you need 300 watts with your Don Sachs? I guess it’s a silly question, as you wouldn’t have said it if you didn’t mean it. I’m curious because I just purchased a Valhalla (to drive my X5s), which is 30 watts or thereabouts, to replace my SS Classe, which is 300 watts, and not only do I not miss the extra power, quite literally everything about the Valhalla is an improvement on the Classe, which is a good amp. So I’m curious what speakers you have and how you feel the extra wattage would benefit you. I’m sure the extra power of the Classe was somewhat wasted on the X5s due to the active sub, and, conversely, the Valhalla benefits greatly by having to drive only the mids and tweeters. Are your speakers lower sensitivity and impedance than the X5s, or would having a Don Sachs amp with 300 watts just be the best of both worlds and allow for any speaker possibility in the future? I’m probably answering my own question. I apologize if you’ve gone through all this before. Thanks.

[morganc]

Serious question. Do you really feel you need 300 watts with your Don Sachs? I guess it’s a silly question, as you wouldn’t have said it if you didn’t mean it. I’m curious because I just purchased a Valhalla (to drive my X5s), which is 30 watts or thereabouts, to replace my SS Classe, which is 300 watts, and not only do I not miss the extra power, quite literally everything about the Valhalla is an improvement on the Classe, which is a good amp. So I’m curious what speakers you have and how you feel the extra wattage would benefit you. I’m sure the extra power of the Classe was somewhat wasted on the X5s due to the active sub, and, conversely, the Valhalla benefits greatly by having to drive only the mids and tweeters. Are your speakers lower sensitivity and impedance than the X5s, or would having a Don Sachs amp with 300 watts just be the best of both worlds and allow for any speaker possibility in the future? I’m probably answering my own question. I apologize if you’ve gone through all this before. Thanks.

Great Q!  For the most part I post only based on my experience.  I’ve had and miss the 400  Watt Cherry Megaschino paired with my X-3,s. I have an open floor plan and no dedicated room.  I listen while working in my office, in the kitchen, etc and it’s likely 1000-1300 sf of open space.  And when I like to crank it, I like to crank it ! 

I’ve had much smaller spaces in the past with similar speakers and 10-20 watts was plenty. 

And also I have varied genre taste.  For jazz and vocalists the Don Sachs is all I need.  For Rock, electronica, R and B, etc I often am not sitting and instead am up and about and again just like to feel the space. 

Before I bought my first Class D, I thought I’d never need such wattage. Now it’s just a fun luxury to play around with. It is also nice when you crank a really nice System with high watts to have such low distortion with clean bass. 

[morganc]

I'm not a Spatial owner, but would love to check out the X-series one day. I am using Cube Nenuphar Mini's, which are great but not flawless. Anyway, I was reading this thread because I just spent 3 months using the LSA Voyager 350 ganfet amp. I usually run tubes, but during the summer they get too hot so I use something else. Since my speakers like amps with little or no negative feedback and I wanted something that ran cool I decided to try the LSA. I've tried Class D before and never loved it. Sounded ok and all the detail was there but just never felt engaged into the music. The LSA was the first class D I could live with and really enjoyed. I originally planned to sell the LSA after summer but I enjoyed it so much I'm thinking I might keep it for next summer. I just hooked my 845 tube amp back up and actually miss some of what the LSA brought. My system is Auralic G1 --> Holo Audio May KTE --> Holo Audio Serene KTE --> LSA or tube amp --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's + 2 Rel S/510s, all plugged into a PS Audio P12 regenerator. With the LSA there was amazing detail but also a crystal clear transparency. String plucks sounded like you were listening with a stethoscope and could hear every micro detail. Voices captured every nuance and inflection. It was almost hyper-detailed, but never harsh, dry or etched. When I plugged my LM518 845 amp back in yesterday I did lose some of that extra detail. With the LSA, piano sounded like you were in the piano. With the tube amp, you're at a concert in row 10. I do like the tubes however for the more liquid mid-range. There's an organic sound with tubes that just sounds right to me, but I love having this ganfet amp around in case I want to change the flavor or play with other speakers (I did use it for a month with some Usher BE718's and it sounded fantastic too). While the Nenuphar Mini's are not Sapphires, both are relatively efficient and I would highly recommend checking this amp out if you're looking for class D.

I just saw their offerings this weekend as well.  Thanks for sharing. I love 845 as well. 

[morganc]

A Japanese company called SunValley.

Nice!  I’ve been admiring the  Sun Valley amp as well. You’re gathering quite the collection !

[morganc]

I get it. I've done it. The difference this time is if I had ordered the Zeiss opamps from the beginning, the additional cost would have only been $185. So I have a mental block about paying another $676 with zero resale value. In fact, it might be more cost-effective to sell my amp and re-buy it with Zeiss opamps.   

Wait, what?  Why the huge difference if installed originally?  Perhaps I’ll see if I can negotiate a few options before I pull the trigger on mine or perhaps we could ask him if he’s be willing to do an Opamp tour for our forum.

[morganc]

Similar. I have the VTV dual mono with Sparkos Pro opamps in my main system and the Mini GaN5 on the secondary system. Never bothered to compare those two. I don't even want to unplug the VTV! Mates well with the Don Sachs pre and Terminator II DAC. The pre and DAC provide the holographic sound, and the VTV reveals all of it. Unless morganc reports back to confirm the Weiss opamp is better, the VTV stays put as is.   

I’ll let you know but it might be a while. This maybe my winter audio fun project ! 

[newzooreview]

Wait, what?  Why the huge difference if installed originally?  Perhaps I’ll see if I can negotiate a few options before I pull the trigger on mine or perhaps we could ask him if he’s be willing to do an Opamp tour for our forum.

I don't see a lower cost for VTV op amps at purchase vs. adding them later.

For the monoblocks here are how the costs come up for one monoblock (list below). So at time of purchase, Weiss Op Amps for two channels cost $776. Buying a set of Weiss Op Amps to use after you already purchase the Monoblocks is 2 x 338 = $676.

I would be willing to bet that there is a typo on the monoblock order page (or on the purchase page to buy the op amps separately). 338 and 388 look identical at a quick glance. One of them is likely a typo for the other. But at the moment buying the Weiss opamps after the fact is actually the cheaper route, according to the VTV website.

 $-              No opamp
 $78.00    Class D opamp
 $78.00    Sparkos Labs SS3602
 $119.00    Sparkos Labs SS2590 Pro Opamp
 $132.00    PR Sonic Imagery Labs 995FET Pro Opamp
 $132.00    PR Sonic Imagery Labs 990EnH-Ticha Pro Opamp
 $88.00    Sonic Imagery Labs 994EnH-Ticha Pro Opamp
 $388.00    PR Weiss OP2-BA Opamp

[newzooreview]

[duplicate post deleted]

[jnschneyer]

Great Q!  For the most part I post only based on my experience.  I’ve had and miss the 400  Watt Cherry Megaschino paired with my X-3,s. I have an open floor plan and no dedicated room.  I listen while working in my office, in the kitchen, etc and it’s likely 1000-1300 sf of open space.  And when I like to crank it, I like to crank it ! 

I’ve had much smaller spaces in the past with similar speakers and 10-20 watts was plenty. 

And also I have varied genre taste.  For jazz and vocalists the Don Sachs is all I need.  For Rock, electronica, R and B, etc I often am not sitting and instead am up and about and again just like to feel the space. 

Before I bought my first Class D, I thought I’d never need such wattage. Now it’s just a fun luxury to play around with. It is also nice when you crank a really nice System with high watts to have such low distortion with clean bass.

That all makes a lot of sense.  I hadn’t considered how the amp, and the speakers, might perform relative to the size of the room.  My own room isn’t small, but it isn’t terribly big, either.  Open plan living room and kitchen, about 15w x 30l x 9h.  Math refugee that I am, I shudder at the thought of figuring out the cubic feet of that.  I occasionally play some whomping bass stuff, but mostly it’s classical and jazz.  Symphonic music and opera can get pretty big at times, and at those times I do sometimes like to share the music with my neighbors (who, amazingly, have never complained - good walls, I guess), and the Valhalla has yet to come up short, but I’m sure my comparatively small room has a lot to do with that.  Do they make good, or any, tube amps with the kind of power you’re looking for?  Anyway, thanks for the response.   

[Early B.]

Open plan living room and kitchen, about 15w x 30l x 9h.  Math refugee that I am, I shudder at the thought of figuring out the cubic feet of that.   

You would multiply those three numbers and you'd get 4,050 cubic feet. 

[jnschneyer]

You would multiply those three numbers and you'd get 4,050 cubic feet.

Ha! Once again, saved from having to do it myself.

[morganc]

That all makes a lot of sense.  I hadn’t considered how the amp, and the speakers, might perform relative to the size of the room.  My own room isn’t small, but it isn’t terribly big, either.  Open plan living room and kitchen, about 15w x 30l x 9h.  Math refugee that I am, I shudder at the thought of figuring out the cubic feet of that.  I occasionally play some whomping bass stuff, but mostly it’s classical and jazz.  Symphonic music and opera can get pretty big at times, and at those times I do sometimes like to share the music with my neighbors (who, amazingly, have never complained - good walls, I guess), and the Valhalla has yet to come up short, but I’m sure my comparatively small room has a lot to do with that.  Do they make good, or any, tube amps with the kind of power you’re looking for?  Anyway, thanks for the response.   

None that I know of.