AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Power Conditioning => Topic started by: Emil on 8 Sep 2020, 06:53 pm
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I've tried Uberbuss, Blue Circle devices and even a Powervar balanced power conditioner and heard no difference with them in the system
Is my electric squeaky clean? Am I just lucky? Not listening close enough?
I have a dedicated line with Triode Wire Lab cords throughout.
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I don’t use one. I’ve not noticed any issues that would make me think I need one.
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I've tried 4 different conditioner and they either did nothing or made things worse. I live off the grid and my inverter put out very clean power. Also I have 2 dedicated circuits that come straight off the inverter and are grounded directly to my house ground.
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I have one system on a Torus. The rest are on heavy duty Tripplite rackbars. None of them have ever given me any 'problems'. In the system that got the Torus, I just feel as if the sound is relaxed and constant throughout the entire day. The performance before the Torus felt a bit more variable. I also leave my gear powered on 24/7 in 2 of the rigs that gets used everyday, which further helps with things sounding the same every time I use it.
Having things sound the same all day and night long due to the Torus has been much appreciable.
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I don't anymore...I use the Zero Surge (https://zerosurge.com/) units instead as protecting from surges is way more important to me. I own 7 of them for various equipment around the house.
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I don't anymore...I use the Zero Surge (https://zerosurge.com/) units instead as protecting from surges is way more important to me. I own 7 of them for various equipment around the house.
Is Zero Surge not considered a power conditioner? I use a SurgeX which is the same technology. It provides surge suppression and cleans up the EMI/RFI which is what a power conditioner does.
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Is Zero Surge not considered a power conditioner? I use a SurgeX which is the same technology. It provides surge suppression and cleans up the EMI/RFI which is what a power conditioner does.
SurgeX uses Zero Surges patented technology. While it can clean up the waveform from filtering, no, it's not considered a power conditioner as its primary purpose is to protect from surges. I use the TSC (https://www.ign.com/articles/2007/07/20/zerosurge-tsc-power-filter-review) level too which isn't available to current customers. I suppose your "power conditioning" would need to be clarified as some would say filtering is a power conditioner. Either way, they have worked very well for me over the last 10 years.
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I have a ps audio dectet that I use for manley snappers. My musical paradise and woo WA22 prefer the wall. The manleys dislike the wall sockets.
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I would argue that power conditioners, because of their surge protection feature, are essential for nearly everyone, just as auto or homeowner's or medical malpractice insurance is considered essential. Likewise, just as there are various levels, pricing, and providers for insurance coverage, there are levels of power conditioning. You can spend $10K on a PS Audio P20 or $10 on a Walmart strip outlet or anything in between.
Years ago, I fried a motherboard. My response was, "Why did that happen? I had surge protection." The computer tech asked me how much I spent on it and I said $20. He laughed. Now I use SurgeX on all 5 of my computer and AV systems.
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Since my CD player already have one inside before the power transformer I use nothing more.
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I run as much as possible off of batteries-- Dodd preamp, Folsom amp, Dodd phono pre. What is on the grid goes through SurgeX protection. No power conditioner. I put one one a Moscode amp once, and couldn't hear an improvement.
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A friend brought a PS Audio power conditioner over to my old place (a 50 year old place with a rats nest for wiring and old appliances) maybe 20 years ago and we heard very little difference in the early evening. Tried a battery powered Ack DAC and Vinnie's original battery powered integrated amps, no apparent power related improvements. But have heard power aberrations (the technical term for dirty power) at the first audiofest hosted by Steve Deckert after nearby factories shutdown for the weekend.
At my current house we have near perfect online power: rural; no major industry on our substation; our own transformer; house built in 2005 with all 12 gauge/20amp circuits, whole house surge protector, and and new appliances; audio system has dedicated circuits, grounding, and hospital grade receptacles. IMO the need for power conditioning is location and time dependent. So I don't use a power conditioner.
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I own a Cullen circuits modified PS Audio P300, Audience Ar2p, Shunyata MPC-12, PS Audio Dectet, and PS Audio Stellar P3. In no case did any amplifier sound better plugged into any of them. Front end components were an entirely different matter. Every front end component I used with any of the conditioners was improved in varying degrees. In some cases one area of performance was improved at the expense of another parameter. The effects were highly dependent on individual components and as my systems have become more resolving the differences between them are more obvious.
I am using the Shunyata MPC-12 in my second system to condition the power to my AV system and Arcam FMJ cd37 SACD player and DeHavilland or Aloia preamp in my second sound system. It very favorably improves everything including the image fidelity of the Panasonic plasma tv connected to it. The Aloia preamp has a heavy inductive power supply and I still hear an improvement with the Shunyata vs. direct into the wall.
The PS Audio Stellar P3 powers my Luxman D-08u, RCM Sensor Prelude phono stage, and PS Audio BHK preamp. It improves the performance of that system to the point I would consider it absolutely essential to realizing the full potential of everything. Its ability to improve sound staging and resolution is not subtle, it's very apparent.
I'm in a suburban neighborhood with underground utilities, no industrial power consumers in the immediate vicinity.
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Using four dedicated 20A lines from a dedicated Sub Panel and two conditioners. Mono Blocks and Sub Amps plugged directly in wall. Main power Conditioner for preamp and TT. One power Conditioner for Digital on one dedicated line. DEAD quite.
charles
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Using four dedicated 20A lines from a dedicated Sub Panel and two conditioners. Mono Blocks and Sub Amps plugged directly in wall. Main power Conditioner for preamp and TT. One power Conditioner for Digital on one dedicated line. DEAD quite.
charles
Now remove all the power conditioners and listen
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Not even close Emil. So easy to tell the difference. Come on over and hear it for yourself.
charles
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I used to also fall in camp of not using a conditioner, but I recently tried the P3, AQ 1200, and PSM156.
I went with the PSM156 as it was a great product, did not take away dynamics!
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Power Conditioner:
In that 'power conditioner' is an undefined term. It could mean almost any combination of the following.
a) Noise filter - a low-pass EMI/RFI filter.
b) Surge protector - although it's better to have surge protection at the home's service entrance.
c) UPS - note that many UPS's are not really UPS's!
d) Line voltage adjuster.
e) Balanced power transformer.
f) Isolated power transformer.
g) DC blockers.
h) Regenerators (PSAudio)
i) Power Factor Correction
j) I forget? But I think that there are more.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
With the exceptions of some high-rise apartments, multi-purpose buildings and next-door factories, power conditioners are seldom needed.
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I don't use an actual power conditioner no.
I do have dedicated lines. I do use a powerbar with surge protection mostly for cable management for my 2 channel setup.
Not against them, but have not yet used one.
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I do not use one for my power amp.
But do employ a Brick Wall (Zero Surge) PW8R15AUD: 15 amp; 8 isolated by duplex (6 switched, 2 unswitched), for CDP and pre.
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That is axacly how I have run here for 10 years at least.
Brick wall, amp to wall.
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No power conditioning here - everything straight to wall. I’ve found the more I reduce extra doo-dads in my system, the better it sounds. Stock power cords, good quality, but reasonable cost interconnects and speaker cables, no special networking equipment or Ethernet cables, and no more isolation products. Sometimes simpler really is better.
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I tried multiple ... Uberbuss, Blue Circle, PS Audio. Gave them all up as I had too much $ invested for too little, if any benefit. These days I use Zero Surge but my 2 channel system is effectively off grid with Vinnie Rossi and Uptone equipment anyway.
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For a few years I used a PS Audio Power Plant Premier. It made a slight difference with my cheaper equipment but didn't do a thing for my expensive gear. When the PPP died I didn't notice a huge change. It was not worth having it repaired. Now days, I live "Off Grid" on Solar/Battery power.
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I have been running most of my systems without conditioners for a couple years. I was using a Furman unit for a long time. I bought a Niagara 5000 and was not impressed with it over the Furman. I tried against the wall at the same time and found the Furman was not really helping either. So now I run straight to wall.
That said, I got an AQ Hurricane power cord at that same time and it made a very audible difference and is in active use.
I do use an AQ big powerstrip, but not with the belief it helps sound a ton.