Quad ESL Question

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 18806 times.

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Quad ESL Question
« on: 21 May 2015, 04:16 pm »
I have a hand me down pair of very nice looking Quad 989 speakers. I don't have manuals or cords. Are the diaphragm bias cords just standard IEC cords.  I want to make sure before I try to power them up.
Thanks,
Steve

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #1 on: 21 May 2015, 05:33 pm »
Found out IEC cords are correct. Did a plug and play. One channel is fine. The other makes popping noises that appear to come from the bass panels. My gut feeling says it's not the diaphragms.

I'm plan to uncover and vacuum carefully first.

For reference sake the noise resembles a power vacuum tube that's mechanically defective.

Jazzman are you out there?

Steve

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #2 on: 22 May 2015, 04:49 am »
Next questions

Does anyone sell ESL repair parts in the USA?

I'm in Arizona. Anyone know of a repair guy in Arizona, California, or New Mexico?

I'm perfectly willing to attempt the repair myself, but parts for the panels, Mylar, coatings, and glue seem rather hard to track down. I have learned that the adhesives used by Quad are very failure prone.

Any direction is appreciated.

Steve

JohnCZ

Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #3 on: 22 May 2015, 06:30 am »
Hey Steve,
The best tech I've found is  Clark at Electrostatic Solutions in Kansas City.
http://estatsolution.com/index.php?bod=0 - 913-208-7657

I took my ESLs to him for a checkup and update. He is very thorough and reasonably priced for his services. I have a set purchased in 1974 picked out by Peter Walker, so I was careful to find the right person to service them. You will not be disappointed.
John

Jazzman53

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 744
  • Jazzman's DIY Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page
    • Jazzman's Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #4 on: 22 May 2015, 02:30 pm »
Sorry Steve I didn't catch your post earlier.  Sounds like you have a bass panel arcing so you'll have no choice but a rebuild that panel but I would have a complete refurb done on both speakers.
   
E-stat Solutions recommended by JohnCZ looks like a good option.  If they can't fit you in, try Sheldon Stokes here: 
http://www.quadesl.com/

louie3

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 44
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #5 on: 26 May 2015, 02:15 pm »
Steve....could be that the speakers were stored in a high humidity environment or lived in one.

Before you start tearing into them I would get them in a room with around 50 per cent humidity (or less) for two or three days, then see what happens.

Kent at Electrostatic Solutions will probably tell you the same.

http://www.estatsolution.com

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #6 on: 27 May 2015, 03:52 pm »
Thanks everybody.

I've spent a bit more time with the speakers. The bad one crackles when there is no signal present. Power supply for its diaphragm? The speakers have been in Arizona for a year. No changes in humidity. I'm going to call Kent today.

Steve

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #7 on: 27 May 2015, 06:27 pm »
I talked to Electrostatic Solutions about the speaker. A good guy who gave me a path to check out the Quad. Most likely a bass panel or two or more.  He suggested that dropping the grill cloth, then shining a flashlight will show probable tears in diaphragms. Quads are known to have poor glue joints on their panels. That's why they fail. I will take a look. Worst case scenario, it will cost more than it's worth to fix them. On the other hand, these speakers are in great shape looks wise. I'll report back with my findings.

Steve

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #8 on: 30 May 2015, 02:49 am »
More Quad stuff. I examined the diaphragms using the technique of shining a flashlight through the diaphragms and looking for tears. First I dropped the grill cloth. The top plate is attached with a pair of keyholes and screws. Slide it to the right and the plate pops off. The cloth is sort of a sock secured by a Velcro type of attachment. I put the speaker on a coffee table. ( My wife is a tolerant, music loving lady.) There is no evidence of tears, no holes, no stretching deformities. When I plugged the speakers back in the popping noise continued.

I'm of the belief that without physical diaphragm damage, there has to be something going on with the bias supply.

Comments please.

Steve

Jazzman53

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 744
  • Jazzman's DIY Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page
    • Jazzman's Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #9 on: 30 May 2015, 03:23 am »
The popping sound is arcing.  Since it happens with no music signal, I figure it's probably the bias charge arcing off the diaphragm into a burn thru area on one of the stators-- or possibly a corroded connection in the bias signal path or where the bias lead contacts the diaphragm.   If you've had any arcing occurring previously while the speakers were playing, then you may have a burn thru on the stator insulation and the charge building up on the diaphragm is finding that weak spot on the stator and arcing to it.   

Now that you have the sock off, you may be able to visibly locate source of the arcing.  Try this:

Energize the bias supply, then turn off all lights and pull down window shades to darken the room completely.  The arcing may well be visible in the dark.

Good luck with it!

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #10 on: 30 May 2015, 06:30 am »
Thanks Jazzman.

I tried to check for "lightning" but didn't notice any. The sound is more like a beating noise than a pop. I can't find any obvious damage. I'll keep playing with it for awhile longer. I'm still unsure if I want to keep the Quads or not. Shipping them cross country and paying for a rebuild would be cost prohibitive for me. There are now other pairs of 'stats available that would be within about $100 of the cost and shipping of a single Quad. I would have to be a huge fanboy, and I'm not.

I'm considering tearing them down myself, and rebuilding if I can find materials, or placing them on Audiogone to provide a project for another guy. Decisions, decisions.

steve

louie3

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 44
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #11 on: 31 May 2015, 11:43 am »
Steve, forgive me if I insult you, but are you confusing the dust cover with the diaphragm?

The dust cover is just that, a thin sheet of Saran Wrap-like material that covers both front and back of the grid where the electrostatic diaphragm stuff is.

The "no stretches" you mention sounds like the dust cover. Stretched or deformed diaphragms would be pretty hard to see since they are sandwiched between the stator plates (metal plates with small holes in them)

Again, if I have insulted your Quadyness, please forgive.

Louis

SteveFord

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 6384
  • The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #12 on: 31 May 2015, 12:32 pm »
I always that it was Your Quadliness?
It would be worth buying a pair just for the honorific.

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #13 on: 31 May 2015, 02:10 pm »
Louie,

LOL. Insulted by someone trying to help, never.
I'm aware of the covers. I suspect  "Quadliness" is correct.
I'm not sure I want to keep the title or the speakers though.

steve

louie3

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 44
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #14 on: 2 Jun 2015, 02:02 pm »
Steve,

Wikipedia says Quadliness....defer to you.

I will give you this to ponder.   If you don't bite the bullet and fix them or have them fixed, you could be making a bad mistake.

I went through the same deal with the first pair of ESL 63s I had, sold them to a buddy, he spent the money on them, I spent the next 15 years and a good bit of money trying to get back the magic I heard with the 63's.   Now I have the 63s again, and a back basement room with several pairs of speakers I need to peddle to someone else.

There really is nothing like them...nothing.

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #15 on: 2 Jun 2015, 03:04 pm »
Louie,

I love ESLs. Ive owned, built, and repaired many different speakers. I've had horns (very difficult to get right) Maggies (not in the same league as ESLs) open baffle (Linkwitz Orion, quite good) lots of boxes (sealed, vented, transmission lines) I have yet to build a floor to ceiling line array. I have a garage bay full of audio projects, and a patient wife.

I've come around to agreeing with you. The 989 is a great speaker. I find that some other highly touted ESLs, mostly the curved or faceted types, fall short in terms of clarity and detail.

Repair update: I had a nice conversation with Russ Knotts, who suggested I pull the base plate off the speaker, and take a look at the neon bulb which indicates wether the speaker is charging properly. He said that the bulb should flash slowly, about every three seconds. Mine flickers constantly. I'm going into the bias supply first, before I do panels.

Steve

louie3

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 44
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #16 on: 2 Jun 2015, 08:35 pm »
My 63s have a small, round, plastic plug on the outside of the base in the back that can be removed to be able to see the neon light thingy.

FWIW, when my top panel was making Geiger counter noises, the neon light was flashing continuosly, now its back to normal.

Kent at EstatSolutions said this about the neon light: (from an Audio Asylum discussion a couple years ago.)  "Since you state the flasher unit is not flashing rapidly or constantly I would rule out high humidity as the issue. The flasher unit, a neon lamp versus a LED, would be flashing greater than once per second if the humidity were high.

My guess is you have a panel(s) going bad from leakage damage. To confirm this try to look at the flasher unit when the speaker makes some noise. When the noise occurs you will see the flasher unit light up and blink rapidly while the noise is present, and then return to normal flash rate once the noise disappears."

Maybe this helps.   Good luck.

I have a pair of Kingsound Queens...electrostats on top, cone on bottom, I have heard the Kingsound Kings (full range esl) and I have heard all the Martin Logans, and etc, etc...  I am told the Soundlabs are at least as wondrous as the Quads, but my Quads, in my little basement room, in my system, are simply magical.   Hope selling the 989s is a last resort of the last resort.

richidoo

Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #17 on: 3 Jun 2015, 12:07 am »
I know your's is making noise even without a music signal applied, but just in case you are using a tube amp I wanted to mention that my 2905s would pop when I had worn tubes in my amps, new tubes stopped the popping. A pair of large cone speakers gave no hint of worn tubes, only the Quads complained. A ss amp also did not pop. fwiw...

steve f

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 682
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #18 on: 3 Jun 2015, 01:06 am »
I'm currently using a solid state amp. My speaker will act up with no amp attached. I'm considering replacing the electrolytic caps first. That is a cheap fix. If the problem continues, Kansas is my closest repair point.

So everybody, what is the preferred shipping carrier? I have the original boxes and packing materials. It's one big box! Arizona to Kansas might even be a road trip.

Steve

maplegrovemusic

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 228
  • Please Be kind to your ears .... Treat your room
Re: Quad ESL Question
« Reply #19 on: 3 Jun 2015, 03:01 am »
step up transformer bad ?