AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Lab => Topic started by: Pez on 18 Nov 2009, 03:50 am
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By master craftsman Pez. :green:
Based on the Simple SE from Tubelabs.com
OK I'd like to immediately debunk my own title. First, this is not my first "DIY" project. I have done many simple things and a few complex ones (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73155.0) So this is not the first and definitely not the last DIY project I have done. It is however the first that I have ever done from beginning to end that wasn't a modification or someone else's project that I participated in. I (am very proud to say) built this amp with my own two hands. So what are my revelations? Well for one I have a much deeper appreciation for the actual sweat, blood, tears, and solder burns that go into making a product by hand and why they must charge the sometimes exorbitant fees that they do. Yes parts cost for me was about $1100 (that's about twice as much as I originally intended to spend by the way)
Second there is nothing "simple" about this build. Yes it is simple if you have built an amp previously, yes it is a very simple schematic, yes anybody with a solid understanding of electrical engineering would say this is basic stuff. All that said, I am not an EE, I have very little if any understanding of circuit design, I can't read a schematic to save my life even after this build (I am learning though). In the scheme of things I will have to concede that this is indeed a simple design. So 'yes' it is simple and 'no' it is not. Are you still with me? :lol:
Ok back to the beginning. I wanted a tube amp to run my RM40s tweeters with. I didn't want to spend a lot of money so I started this post (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71306.0) hoping to do it on the cheap. This brought me to Tubelab (http://www.tubelab.com/AssemblyManualSimpleSE/StartHere_SSE.html) An excellent website for DIYers who are interested in starting their own tube amp. I wanted to build the Simple SE for around $400-$600 which I assure you is possible. I also assure you that it was far from likely for yours truly who just had to have the best everything. :duh: So what does that include? Here's a parts list:
OVERSIZED Edcor output transformers CXSE25-16-5K (11lbs x 2)
Allied power transformer 6K7VG (7-8 lbs)
Giant Hammond Choke
Panasonic Electrolytics
Jensen Copper oil caps
ASC oversized supplemental power cap
oversized Hexfreds
high quality resistors were used throughout
goldplated ceramic tube sockets
Silver amalgamated copper wiring throughout
handmade (by me :thumb: ) twisted pair super thin copper conductor signal cables with braided shield. (3 hours worth of construction in case you're wondering why so much detail)
RCAs are Cardas and the speaker terminals are pure copper/gold plated vampire wire.
Tube compliment is: 2 EL34 or KT88 and most equivalents, 1 12at7 for signal tube, and 1 5AR4 Rectifier tube.
Custom solid wood box.
Here's a take through of the project. After waiting what seemed like ages for my transformers, chokes, and caps to arrive I started assembly on the board. The toughest part of populating the board was putting all the caps, freds and CCSs on the back of the board while maintaining proper polarity. I thought building the board was going to be the hardest part, but it was by far the easiest.
Here's the top of the board:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2699/4089072972_074a8e51e9_o.jpg)
Bottom:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2726/4088314305_36eb498376_o.jpg)
The box deserves special consideration. My good friend Calvin Nogouchi built this box to my specifications. His excellent work can be seen here (http://www.daikuwoodcrafts.com/index.html) The box is made of solid maple and Cherry wood. Calvin utilized a special dovetail like joiner on all corners which give the box a very unique look and it's sturdy. He also made the top plate out of 1/8" thick aluminum. In a word the box is gorgeous and absolutely one of a kind. It was the perfect thing to set the whole project apart IMO. (better pics at the bottom)
Configuring where I wanted all the parts.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/4113308777_67831a2426_o.jpg)
Here are some pics of the holes getting drilled out. Not seen lots and lots of polishing, sweat, frustration and trips to hardware stores.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2747/4113308493_233e8ef8b3_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2717/4114077760_ef91ae1938_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2498/4114078020_68a59d4f53_o.jpg)
Tube holes and cap hole drilled out.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2792/4114078280_0ab017ff69_o.jpg)
Then about 6 hours of fitting and slight tweaks to the holes drilled gives me a deceptively "finished" yet nonfunctional paper weight.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2800/4114078520_774dd2b2c8_o.jpg)
Hours and hours and hours of wiring. :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: Followed by a 3 day hiatus to keep from murdering someone. :evil:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/4114055692_1320a2a7de_o.jpg)
Also repainted the cap rather than gaudy gold I went with Edcor blue. :thumb:
Verified the wiring, cross my fingers and flip the switch.... Bingo! I got sound out of one channel! opened up the box again continuity test confirmed bad connection to signal cable. Fixed, turned on and it sounded like music!
I brought it over to Wayne to verify my work as well as give any pointers of which there were a few. He was kind enough to fix a grounding issue I had and redo my signal cable job. Big thanks!
Finally the finished product. Here it is folks, the Simple Truth!!!!
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2541/4114094596_7b005f6331_o.jpg)
The back
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4113364415_fecd4a03af.jpg)
I love how the tubes look like they're just sitting there on a clean metal surface!
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2803/4114057328_138c524c20_o.jpg)
Close up of Calvin's wonderful work.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2577/4113473143_a0455b96fb_o.jpg)
In the makeshift burn in station.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2724/4114056354_4bf2a5d87d_o.jpg)
I have been running it for a couple days now and no explosions or fires. (cross your fingers knock on wood etc etc) As a matter of fact it sounds very nice and looks nicer than any piece of equipment I have ever owned! It only has maybe 10 hours on it total, but it has a very robust midrange, smooth top end and images like crazy! I love the laid back yet powerful presentation it gives. It puts out way more sound than a mere 5-15 watts would have you believe.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2757/4114061782_4a8dbe530b_o.jpg)
I still have to wire it for triode/UL, cathode feedback, standby switch, optional solid state rectification, and cleaning up the wiring a bit but that is for a later date. I'm going to bring it around to some of the DAM members to play in their systems.
I have to say I have a new found respect for those who make equipment for a living. this is not an easy task, nor would it be something I could see myself doing day in and day out. It is a lot of love and a lot of pain that goes into something like this.
I want to give a thank you to mgalusha for helping me a bit with verifying some of the stuff on the board I wasn't 100% sure of. I also would like to thank my buddy Calvin for his beautiful wood work. This project would not be the same without it! But most of all I would like to give a big thanks to Wayne from Bolder Cables. Without your patience, drill press, and guidance I would not have been able to do this at all. Your feedback was crucial and I can not emphasize enough how lucky I am to have a friend like you. Be on the look out for a few select beers coming your way! :beer:
Thank you all for reading and please leave your comments. :)
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That is one of the prettiest DIY builds I've seen, great job Jason! Can't wait to get a chance to hear it!
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WOW! Now that is a gorgeous build!
Well done,
Paul
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Great job man, looks sweet.
Now get your butt down to HD or Lowes and pick up a pack of 1" # 8 Stainless Steel panhead screws, and replace those sheetrock ones. And you will have a masterpiece. aa
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Very nice Jason, beautiful and I'm betting your wife is glad to get her kitchen back. :)
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That is 1 sweet build Jason, you've got a right to be proud with the results from all your hard work and headaches. I'll be looking forward to what the DAM guys have to say once they've given this gem a listen.
Oh yeah, thanks for taking the time to snap them pictures. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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Jason,
Slip a razor blade under the labels on the power transformer and choke and peel them off.
It will add the finishing touch. :thumb:
It was almost kinda fun helping Jason with this build. It showed me a lot of things I take for granted and I hope it gave him a better appreciation of what goes into building audio gear.
Tyson,
Now you know why your headphone amp isn't done, yet :oops:
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Looks beautiful. You did a nice job.
Will you write a review about the sound after it breaks in and after you get used to it?
Thanks!
Rich
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Jason,
Slip a razor blade under the labels on the power transformer and choke and peel them off.
It will add the finishing touch. :thumb:
That is what I was going to say.
Looks great Jason. I am sure you will enjoy the heck out of this amp. I think everyone should have a SET amp around to play with. They really do do some things before than many others.
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Pez -
That's one beauty of an amp! An heirloom piece for sure. Hope it sounds as good as it looks on your VMPS RM40 tweeters. Be sure to let us know.
Best,
Jake
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Thanks for the Razor suggestion guys, I went ahead and just peeled them off no problem.
Mjosef, you hit the nail on the head. I originally had silver screws, but they were not nearly long enough and I was worried about losing the top, so I did what any lazy modder would do, I grabbed what I had on hand. :P
I really appreciate the comments guys! I am still breaking it in. I will definitely write a review of the sound.
Josh, are you still working on the tubelab SE?
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Josh, are you still working on the tubelab SE?
I am, the board is stuffed but I don't have a chassis yet. Speakers are more important at the moment.
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gorgeous!!!!!
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Just an update. I have been listening to the Simple in my main system for a few days now. I originally installed it in place of the Bella just to let it burn in and see what it can do. I have my system setup so that under 500 hz a solid state amp is taking care of bass. I have a tube amp running everything from 500 up. There is a passive crossover between the mids and highs which I intend to remove and use the bella for mids and the Simple Truth for highs.
Well I have had my new amp running mids and highs with the crossover and let me tell you I am absolutely shocked at the SPL that this amp is capable of. I have pushed it to what I consider my threshold for what an amp must be able to do in room without distortion which is about 90db and it performed without so much as a whimper. I have never heard an amp with more texture in my system before.
So far so good! I can't conclusively say anything yet, but so far it is performing very favorably against my other amp. :thumb:
As a matter of fact despite the fact that it is not broken in yet (probably a lot more time before that point) it is smooth in the highs without being rolled off. It is incredibly dynamic! I put in one of my reference tracks Yim Hok-Kim Master of Chinese percussion which really pushes any system with it massive Chinese drums and huge dynamics. The amp did everything I threw at it with gusto and grace. As a matter of fact my bass amp wimped out way before the simple truth so I couldn't push it any further than I had.
Some things I would like to see happen with the amp during the rest of the break in process is deeper soundstage for sure. I also think the midrange can get a bit overbearing depending on the track, but I have seen a marked improvement since yesterday in that realm.
Here's a pic of it in system against the blue glow of the blue LED computer fan I installed to dissipate heat.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2600/4119536545_c816a1b42f_o.jpg)
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I got to hear the Simple SE in my system today, along with the Bella that Jason also owns. We also listened to my modded ST70's. An audio-gd Solid State amp was used at all times on the bass woofers in my fully active setup. The tube amps were all traded in and out of the midrange and tweeter spots. The Simple SE had the best high frequencies of any of the amps. It also had the most midrange magic that only great tube amps can give you. Tonally I thought the Simple SE and my modded ST70's matched up pretty well, with the ST70's having a bit more upper bass punch and drive, but losing a little of that wonderful see through transparency of the Simple SE. We pushed the volume loud a few times and none of the amps gave out reached their limits.
If you are looking for an amp to drive mids/highs and have a relatively easy load, then the Simple SE is gonna be very hard to beat. Even a 2 way speaker with an easy load and moderate efficiency could be a good match. On the other hand, if you are looking to drive a passive 3 way system with low efficiency or low impedance, something like the Bella would be a better match.
For the way we were using it today, it was pretty magical. And its fabulous to look at too (except that Jason can't seem to get RCA jacks or binding posts installed straight).
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We had fun today, one thing is for sure I loved the liquidity of the entire system as a whole. it was quite a rocky road, we were working on populating the board on a power supply for Tyson's ST70 as well as swapping amps in and out of the system. We had a Gold Lion KT88 go cherry on us which blew a fuse and required a trip down to the local hillbilly electronics store. But we managed to get in some great listening.
I was pleased to hear the Simple SE perform admirably amongst so many excellent amps. I have been hearing wonderful things in my own system using this amp and it is nice to hear it translate so well in another system that is very different from my own. The three dimensionality of the simple SE was readily apparent in Tyson's system and I felt the SET sound was a great match for the setup.
Any way I agree with Tyson's assessment, this amp does the trick without wimping out on relatively simple loads, I am interested to try it on something more demanding. :)
As far as the RCA jacks and binding posts I blame it on bad luck. :( I measured carefully, I drilled pilot holes and still I managed to drill one really off center in the back. Tyson's just looking for an excuse to diss my amp. :P
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Ok, after owning the first Simple SE for a while I really REALLY love it. As a matter of fact I love it so much that I have sold my other amp and decided I needed to build another one of these bad boys. Since the first one was the "Truth" this one is "Corruption" :thumb:
I wanted to make something totally unique. So I wanted to incorporate spalted maple which, if you didn't know, is wood that has been corrupted by either disease or some sort of infestation. I had my buddy Cal make the box again and he definitely out did himself on this one.
Specs:
Triode only (the other amp has triode/UL switch and Cathode feedback switch. I preferred triode by a wide margin so I saw no reason to incorporate UL or CFB)
Silver/Copper wiring throughout
Jensen Copper oil coupling caps
Oversized Edcor OPTs
Hammond (allied) Power transformer
Hammond Choke
Panasonic Electrolytics
Takkmann resistors for audio section
ceramic gold plated tube sockets
Acme audio Fuse holder and IEC
star grounding to IEC
oversized hexfreds
WBT Nexgen copper speaker connectors and RCAs.
Cryo treated Cardas Homemade twisted pair/mesh shield internal signal cable wiring.
Bolder Nitro RCAs, Speaker Cable, and Power Cable
Daiku Woods custom made box
Here is the picture Cal sent me of the box prior to completion. When I saw it I was in awe. Again, spalted maple and the framing is done in walnut.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4385271881_798ebe8271.jpg)
Making the internal cabling, about a 2 hour job, while I waited for the box to be finished.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4386072932_7fed796a9e.jpg)
Here it is taped off and transformer holes drilled.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4386019038_4470775e99_o.jpg)
I got the box on Saturday the 20th and finished the project yesterday morning (the 23rd)! Actually I got most of the work done on monday. The amp was completely assembled, but not troubleshot. That is a huge difference from last time which took almost 3 weeks. Experience matters for sure when doing something like this and using the other amp as a reference reduced my time spent exponentially.
Wayne was once again kind enough to let me use his garage and tools. I was much more accurate this time with the hole drilling, not that last time was bad, but it was 5-10 mm off at times, this is enough that you can see the hole when using EL34s. This time the holes were within a millimeter! When the tubes are in you can't even see them except of course the signal tube socket which is impossible to hide. Check out the signal tube hole, it is perfectly cut!
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4385259911_136b8f7231.jpg)
And here it is in all it's glory. And yes I have been permanently corrupted by SET and I am proud of it. :thumb:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4386024206_46795d0ff0_o.jpg)
Pic of the back w/ Nexgens
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4385258567_3bde2b7c29_o.jpg)
Close up of Cal's work.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2717/4386020504_008da17ac8_o.jpg)
With the Truth.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2714/4386020050_c4304d4223_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/4385255987_a231444ae0_o.jpg)
These amps sound AMAZING. While it is still breaking in and needs a lot more time before it's in it's prime it still sounds really wonderful. The biggest benefit of course is going fully active in my system. I am very proud of these amps. If you haven't gotten into DIY you should, it is the most rewarding thing I have ever done in this hobby.
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Love the spalted maple and walnut combo and glad you're enjoying the DIY journey! I've taken a little break myself, but tubes have found their way back into my system as well :thumb:
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Awesome work, can't wait to hear your system now! Between the 2 SE's you've got on the mids/highs, you've got almost 15 watts going, and got those crappy passive parts out of the signal path!
You just need to paint your rectifier and signal tubes black to match the rest of the stuff on top of the amp ;)
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Jason, dat's a beautiful!!!!!
lou
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You have truely outdone yourself on your 2nd Set Jason, she's a thing of beauty for sure. :notworthy:
Thanks for the pictures. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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Great job on both amps, they truly look good beside each other :drool:
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Great looking amps, and as a Simple SE builder myself, I'm wondering what's the best preamp to build for the Simple SE? :green:
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Well done...........VERY nice amp! :thumb:
Now, .................try it WITHOUT a circuit board, any access to a wooden chassis/carpenter, no tools to cut aluminium/holes and ''NOT SIMPLE '' is re-defined in another dimension (in my case :duh:)!!
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Wow, thanks everyone! I cannot emphasize enough how great the Simple SE design is. I haven't heard a better amp in my system ever. I also cannot emphasize how great it is to have someone like Wayne who I can call and ask pretty much any question or just to call when I'm pulling my hair out from frustration. :lol:
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Looks fabulous Jason. I'm sure they are making sweet music together. :thumb:
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Oh- That's sweet! Love the wood work and overall quality. Simply stunning!
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Spalted wood gives me wood. ;)
Looks awesome, I'm jealous. There is a lot to say for a working project.
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Jason,
Are those black Edcors different from the blue ones in the first iteration?
Beautiful work. Your friend has a great eye for proportion and the maple is a great pick too. :D
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I haven't heard a better amp in my system ever.
DIY like buying $$$ power cords always makes your gear sound fantastic. Thats why I love it! Stuff you put togetther always sounds better then stuff you don't.
Did you make the same kit twice? If so you are way more focused then me. I can't even do two similar projects.
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Jason,
Are those black Edcors different from the blue ones in the first iteration?
The Edcors are the same exact one's from the 1st project. I simply took off the labels, unscrewed the bells and spray painted them black. I didn't want to have the blue because I wanted to focus to be on the box.
Sts9fan, the kit is identical, I was tempted to build the DHT kit, but decided that I would rather have the same amp due to the fact I loved the sound and I had already invested in buying a sextet of Shuguang Treasures and I was a little leery of the signal tubes George from Tubelabs used in that design, it's somewhat rare and only a few manufacturers ever made it. I learned my lesson from owning another amp that used rare tubes. If you don't like the sound of the tube you're screwed.
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I am sure the build is a great one - my comments are primarily on the cosmetics - that looks really really nice - I have tried to build stuff in the past, and know how time consuming getting everything to line up just right etc can take.
Job well done!
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I just got back from an afternoon at Jason's place. The pictures do not do justice to how beautiful these amps look in the flesh. Stunning work, I mean on the level of amps I've seen in the $5k-$10k range commercially.
Brought over my calibrated mic, preamp mic, laptop, and HOLM Impulse measurement software. Did lots of measurements of the speakers, and discovered a few problems in the frequency response, which we easily corrected with the all-powerful DCX that Jason uses. Because Jason uses felt around the tweeters, it absorbs part of the tweeter response, and acts as a mini-horn for other parts (same as it would with any tweeter). The result was a tilted up response from 7khz to 20khz. We just dialed that down with a 6db/octave EQ setting. There was also a loss of energy in the 500hz range, a room mode at 40hz, and a bit of a dip between 3khz and 5khz. Oh yes, and the tweeters were out of phase, causing a deep null between 6 and 7khz.
All of this was pretty easily fixed, once we knew exactly where to apply the power of the DCX. It took a little while to get everything dialed in, because we remeasured after every individual change, and we took measurements in 2 places, first in the center of the room with the mic at 1 meter for fewest sidewall reflections, and next with the speakers in their normal position, and the mic at the listening position for best view of bass modes and room interactions.
Once we got all of that done and did some more listening, I have to say that Jason's system sounds spectacular. When you are in the sweet spot they are incredibly focused, detailed, relaxed, dynamic, tight, percussive, and image like demons. His midrange amp is not yet fully broken in, so the sound can only get better and better over the next several days.
Downsides? Well, the 40's don't sound as good off axis, so if you are not in the sweet spot they sound a bit thin and shouty. Luckily, Jason's room is geared entirely toward the sweet spot, so it's not something he has to worry about. Overall it was a great time and I think the results were definitely worth the time/effort we put in to it.
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Yep, because I knew Tyson was coming over today with his calibrated mic I didn't bother leveling anything other than attempting to do it by ear. I could have used FFT for iPhone but that program is a joke compared to what we had planned. I knew it was way too boomy in the bass and I couldn't quite get the treble right. Now it's a totally different story thanks to Tyson and his calibrated mic. Now things are much better proportioned and the bass is not only less boomy it reaches way lower and has more authority and control. The imaging is much much better and more on par with what I know these amps to be capable of. All of these things could not be fixed by simply adjusting the crossover point or gain level.
Hopefully after the amp is fully broken in I can get more richness to the sound!
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How long did it take your first Simple SE to break in? And how much time do you have on the new simple SE?
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About a month or so. It's difficult to say for sure when the moment was, but certainly the amp never sounded bad during break in like so many do, it was actually very tolerable if not superior even unbroken.
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Jason,
Sounds like a real beauty (or two). If you ever feel like hauling one of those up to Boulder, just let me know. :-)
-- Jim
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Hey!
Nice! :D Looking good there.
Well, as for the sound. There's something about SE/SET sound isn't it? :wink:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
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Nice work, Pez! So one Simple SE on the tweeters, one Simple SE on the midrange, and wimpy SS amp on the bass drivers. Hmm...sounds like the next project might be a new bass amp using a ClassD Audio kit?
Just a thought. :idea:
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Funny you mention that, yes the digital amp IS my next project! I haven't purchased anything yet and don't plan to any time soon, but certainly within the next 6 months or so. I will say that the amp I have is far from wimpy! It's 300 watts per channel which goes a long way when woofers are the only thing it's driving. Though having a digital amp at 500 or 1000 watts would be wonderful!
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Pez,
Where did you get the silver/copper wire?
-- Jim
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Jim,
Sorry I missed your post. I used the same copper/silver cabling Wayne uses in some of his Nitro/M80 type cables. I don't know if it's exactly the same, but it's basically Teflon coated Silver amalgamated copper and sounds absolutely awesome! The amp has been breaking in for the last couple weeks and it is finally coming into it's own! Nicest sound I have heard in my system.
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Jason,
Sounds good, but where to buy this?
Thanks,
Jim
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Send me a PM or E-mail, Jim.
I do not normally sell my raw wire, but sometimes I make exceptions.