[griffithds]

Hi Dlaloum,

I wish I could help you with a stylus for your MK3. What I  have is the MK3 body with a MK4 stylus. I understand that the two bodies were the same.  I do have a spare MK4 stylus which I bought from Foxtan.  I saw rather recently a MK3 stylus for sale (by him), on eBay. They do pop up from time to time but they are not cheap.  But then neither is a retipper! (grin)  The MK4 is even more rare but when I asked him, he delivered!  I could ask him if you would be interested. I think the MK4 replacement stylus cost me $450.   I am quite sure he could find you one(3 or 4).  I have also heard that the Jico replacement is quite good.  I have not had the pleasure of hearing it myself, but I have corresponded with others that own this rather rare cartridge and they all speak of it rather highly.  Had I/Foxtan not found a spare MK4,  I probably would own one one of the Jico's right now.  If you would be interested in the Jico one, let me know.  They do not list it on their website, but I do have the catalog number of it  for ordering purposes. I would have to look for it, but I'm sure I have it somewhere.
The 3 (triplets), that I mentioned have not been beat in my system.  I own (and have heard others in my system) several expensive M/C's that are at this level. The only difference is that they are far more expensive.  I justify the cost of that MK4 stylus with that thought.
I recently picked up a Sony XL-55. It was NOS.  I'm a little hesitant to add it to the above mentioned 3, but............
That's quite a stack of impressive AT bodies you own.  I recently received a Glantz stylus housing cantilever/ML stylus replacement by Andy of Needle Clinic located in Washington.  I am rather impressed with his offering.  He would not say exactly what this cantilever is made of but would say it was a mix of materials. No alum.  It has a rather high shine (like polished aluminum),and it also has the extrusion lines that you get when material is squeeze thru a die. Looking at it from its tip, it appears to be a solid rod! All this doesn't matter because  what it sounds like is what counts the most.  Best way to answer that is to say this.  I am looking through all my stash for candidates to send to him for this cantilever.  I did not get an itemized list but what I sent him was 2 Glantz stylus housings. One needed to have the suspension replaced, and the other had a broken cantilever.  Total for both was only $120.  Turnaround time was 2 weeks. 
I feel that I had better ""mine" this gold mine  before it's to late. 
Regards,
Don

[dlaloum]

Hi David - I'm interested in the fact that you chose to install your ATN-22 on a TK9 body rather than a TK10. I have a NOS ATN-22 mounted to one of my TK10 bodies and it sounds great (though not quite as nice as the SS LC retipped boron TK10 I have). Was there something special about the TK9?

Jack

Hi Jack,

the TK9 AT22, AT24 and TK10 are all identical bodies, theoretically the higher spec item had the body cherry picked from the production line, so the TK10's have more consistently better specs (that is to say their channels are better matched on average).

Bu in reality all of these are high spec models - I measured both inductance and resistance for all the bodies I have of this family, and in my case the TK9 proved to be the best of the batch.... so that's where the needle goes.

Unlike the other Audio Technica designs these had to be hand made, much like an MC, due to the torroidal coils - the step down designs like the TK7 and AT20 and all the later AT MM's used (use!) para-toroidal setups, which would allow them to be more cheaply and easily wound - presumably by machine...

So none of them are any less than high end!

bye for now

David

[dlaloum]

David,
Yes, that's how Danny got his Reference.

I think you said your PS-X600 is 120V ?   I have a PS-X50 parts table with a good transformer.  If it will work in your 600, you're welcome to it.  It's a pretty big transformer (for a table), but I don't have a service manual and don't know the secondary voltage.  I can copy the numbers on the tranny if that would help figure it out.

Thanks for the link to the Capacifier.  I saw it mentioned on the loading thread.
neo

Hi Neo,

I've found suppliers for the original Sony 240V transformer (for the UK version of the table) - at present my issue is that both suppliers I have found are North America, and I need to organise a trans-shipping service to get the parts to Australia.

Will keep you guys posted on how this all goes....

bye for now

David

[dlaloum]

Hi Don,

I have dealt with Foxtan a number of times - mostly when I was seeking low mass standard headshells.

$450 is a bit rich for me for a stylus for the 205... although I may end up changing my mind.

I would be willing to order a SAS for it though if I could confirm its availability !
I checked on both the japanese and export Jico websites and found not U205 (EPCP205) styli - only the 1/2" mount versions...
If you have a reference I could use to order one that would be hugely appreciated!

I have a number of candidate cartridges for new styli/cantilever/retip....

TK10
Grace F8
EPCP205mk3

Both the Grace and the EPCP205 have no stylus holders - I have to find a complete stylus or a broken one for retipping...

Keep us up to date on how the new cantilever type performs....

thanks

David

[griffithds]

Hi Dlaloum (David),

The first web page below is interesting reading on the Technics,  the second listing is the Jico SAS replacement stylus/with housing for the same Technics.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=958571
http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?cPath=10&products_id=1528

Best regards,
Don

[Grbluen]

Ok Neo,
I've decided to try the transplant. I have a 140lc stylus lying around that I'll transplant onto the ls500 grip. I'm too chicken to try the Beryllium first. If that goes well, I'll try the Beryllium.
Don

[neobop]

Just relax and take your time, you'll get it.  It usually takes at least a few tries to get the magnets aligned perfectly.   Remember not to bear down and over tighten that compliance screw. 

I have the same stylus sitting around.  Tried it on the 440 and it sounds much like the original, which probably means it would be nice on a CA.  Can't seem to find the other 95 plug though.  Maybe I'll try it on 12E.  Let us know how it sounds.

I've been listening to a 980LZS lately.  That's with a Jico shibata.  Very good, but I can't help but think it could be better.  I also have a Pickering D3001 - .2 elliptical for it, but it's starting to ride a little low.  Wonder how it would sound with a micro tip.  Jico ought to make a D81 SAS.  Bet they'd sell enough to make a nice profit.  They could put it in a Pickering holder and it would fit those 3000 - 5000 and the 7500 too.   The 980LZ is an interesting cart.  Even though it's LO, it sounds like a MM.
neo

[Grbluen]

Success! Thanks for the hints. It will probably take some time to dial this one in. The ls500 was designed for the line contact stylus. The only stylus available has been the shibata. My initial impression is that the line contact is slightly less romantic than the shibata, but still fairly easy on the ears. I'm starting to second guess this cartridge with the Beryllium cantilever, as I'm not sure the cartridge will be able to take full advantage.

Dongrb

[Grbluen]

Neo, I've heard nothing but good things about the 980LZS, it makes you wonder why Jico limits themselves the way they do. I've recently picked up a 681eee, but I know it's not in the same class as the 980.

Don grb

[Grbluen]

Not going back to the shibata.

[dlaloum]

There is a reason that Jico do not have SAS for Stanton/Pickering or Audio Technica bodies....

The SAS design simply doesn't suit those cartridge types...

Keep in mind that the SAS is not just needle and cantilever but also the aluminium telescoped first section kept under tension with the magnet section at the back.

This works perfectly with the Shure style MM design and all of its close relatives (most MM's) - but the AT VM design with the two magnets in V is simply not SAS-able, I think the shorter cantilevers on the Stanton's may also cause issues....

Jico identified that 80% of the MM market has a stylus desing in common and produced the SAS to cater to that - smart move ! - I believe expert stylus in the UK are reputed to do a very good rebuild job on Stanton/Pickering designs....

[Grbluen]

Dl,
Thanks for the clarification. I have no experience with the SAS stylus.
Don grb

[dlaloum]

Hi Dlaloum (David),

The first web page below is interesting reading on the Technics,  the second listing is the Jico SAS replacement stylus/with housing for the same Technics.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=958571
http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?cPath=10&products_id=1528

Best regards,
Don

Hi Don,

thanks for that, unfortunately that is still the 1/2" mount stylus and not the T4P version...

I think the T4P version was superior as it used the same type of screw in mounting as used for the EPC100 series, although the cartridge body was still the 205....

I think I recall reading that Audio Asylum review a while back, during one of my periodical web searches for 205 stylus....

I wonder whether the 1/2" mount version would fit the T4P body? - No screw tight option (that is a minus) but if it still fits, an assuming it is used on an adjustable VTF arm, it might work - I will have to dig up my 206, which if I recall correctly, has a stylus on it, and see whether that stylus fits the EPCP205... (also known as the U205 - universal, it came with the SH90S T4P SME mount adapter...)

bye for now

David

[neobop]

There is a reason that Jico do not have SAS for Stanton/Pickering or Audio Technica bodies....

The SAS design simply doesn't suit those cartridge types...

Keep in mind that the SAS is not just needle and cantilever but also the aluminium telescoped first section kept under tension with the magnet section at the back.

This works perfectly with the Shure style MM design and all of its close relatives (most MM's) - but the AT VM design with the two magnets in V is simply not SAS-able, I think the shorter cantilevers on the Stanton's may also cause issues....

Jico identified that 80% of the MM market has a stylus desing in common and produced the SAS to cater to that - smart move ! - I believe expert stylus in the UK are reputed to do a very good rebuild job on Stanton/Pickering designs....

Even if the SAS design isn't applicable for AT, Stanton and others, they certainly have the technology to offer something better than a straight alum cantilever and a bonded tip that maxes out at shibata.  And what's up with the prices?  Some SAS are $139 and an alum/shibata is $150. 

http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?cPath=91&products_id=1354

http://www.lpgear.com/product/e007429SAS.html   (Looks rather short as well)

Gear seems to be replacing the Jico shibata with a vivid line.  Their D5000 is out of stock.  Looks like "regular" Jico stylus sales are used to subsidize SAS. 
http://www.lpgear.com/product/PICSD4500Q.html
neo

[Grbluen]

Yeah, what Neo said!

[neobop]

Success! Thanks for the hints. It will probably take some time to dial this one in. The ls500 was designed for the line contact stylus. The only stylus available has been the shibata. My initial impression is that the line contact is slightly less romantic than the shibata, but still fairly easy on the ears. I'm starting to second guess this cartridge with the Beryllium cantilever, as I'm not sure the cartridge will be able to take full advantage.
Dongrb

I had to refresh my memory.  Back on page 12 of this thread you measured the resistance of this cart around 1200 ohms (2 samples).  With an output of 4.2mV this looks like a 12E, 13E type motor.  This is a higher resistance/inductance generator, higher than the 12S, 14S, and 15/20 generators which are around 500 ohms and lower output - 2.7mV, and I would think the line contact would be a little better suited (in this case) than shibata. 

You previously considered using a 20SS stylus which is beryllium/shibata.  Have you tried this? 

Not going back to the shibata.

Was this the shibata you tried, or another, or shibata in general?   I think shibata is particularly well suited for some of the more aggressive models, a group to which the LS500 doesn't belong.  The interesting aspect is your impression of aluminum/LC vs beryllium/_?  Previous experiments were with beryllium/LC. 

Maybe I'll get going and remount the 12E and try some of these.  So far I've only listened to it with the fake Precept 550 stylus - straight aluminum w/bonded elliptical.  That's why it's on the shelf.
neo

[Grbluen]

You're right Neo, I probably just bought the marketing hype about the ls500 being an improved version of the 14sa. If you know where I can pick up a 15ss/20ss, let me know.
Don

[neobop]

You're right Neo, I probably just bought the marketing hype about the ls500 being an improved version of the 14sa. If you know where I can pick up a 15ss/20ss, let me know.
Don

Improved version of 14Sa is impossible here.  4.2mV/1200 ohms vs 2.7mV/500 ohms.  Still, I think the cart is a decent one and I suspect much better than some infamous high inductance carts. My 12E seems to have good extension and not rolled off like some.  I think it's important that you keep the capacitance load to a minimum.  All ATs use < 200pF total.

The 20SS is still available at Gear for $250 now.  Stereoneedles still shows it for $200, but you'd have to check.  They're out of the 155LC and maybe all of the 100 series beryllium types, but still show them for sale. 

You might be right about matching up the shibata with the LS500.  I suspect a LC might be a better match for the motor, but I don't really know that.
How does it sound with the 140LC?  Have you listened to it enough to get an idea of performance?  Mine isn't even broken in and I haven't transplanted the 140 stylus.  Your answer to that question should determine whether an exotic stylus might be worth it.
neo



 

[Grbluen]

I'll give it a few hours to break-in and I'll report back. I now know that the shibata is unsuitable for this cartridge. I don't really speak the language, but I'll do my best. Initially, both male and female vocals are more up front. The harmonics are there, but I can't say that it is harmonically complete, because I'm not sure that I'm qualified to make that statement. I will say there is a lot more "wood" to the viola, although the cello remains somewhat missing in action. I'm not sure why I have so much trouble with the cello. I'll give it a good listen and will report back.
Don

[Grbluen]

Neo,
My system is slightly rolled off on top, so I'm not sure what to expect from the Beryllium cantilever. In your experience, what are the benefits that you have been able to realize from such an upgrade? Is the benefit mostly in the top end or do the benefits show throughout the spectrum?
Don grb