All Chimes owners: Please , I need to know what you think of the chime!

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 3290 times.

Lizard_King

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 146
  • Tubes Rule!
Greetings all,

I am writing you to inquire about the USB Tube based DAC. From what I can tell, it looks like a great unit that is available in Kit form. For those of you who own and used to own the chime, what so you think of is sound quality?  I would to know as much and I can from you!

Do you feel this is a quality unit that plays music, is quiet , noise? What is the musically like, build quality, reliability, etc?

Is this a tough unit to build?

I look so forward to hearing from all of you.

Thanks in Advance.

Liz

PSP

Chime impressions.... please???
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jun 2008, 07:07 pm »
Gentlemen,
I would hope that there are a few people here who can step forward and describe how the Chime performs in their system.  I'll be buying a good DAC in the coming year (budget ~ under $2k) and--since I will not have an opportunity to audition most of the DACs I'm considering--I'm very interested in what you folks think about the Chime.

I've heard from people that I regard very highly that Jim is an extremely fine designer.  That puts the Chime on my short list of candidates, but I need more info.  Can a few of you help me out?

Many thanks,
Peter


jcmjrt

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 26
I built a Chime. I've had it for going on two years and have been enjoying it playing apple lossless files into my main system. I'm mostly a vinyl person but wanted something that I could enjoy and use when I'm busy and not wanting to get up to change the record. I thought that it sounded wonderful - really skipped digititis/that CD hardness which I dislike and gave me a nice warm feeling. It provides good detail, nice punch, tight bass. I think it clearly sounds better than a Rega Apollo CDP. I still prefer records but this is close and I've enjoyed it.

I would do the recommended cap upgrades (not necessarily to auricap but to caps that you like and that could be auricap as they are good...I used auricap and Mundorf SIO), rca jack upgrades, put in NOS tubes vice new tubes AND one thing that I didn't do but will - upgrade the volume pot. Mine has developed some issues now and I've procured and will be installing a TKD pot. The TKD is small and should fit with a minimum of hassle AND has an excellent rep for being a good pot. If money is an issue - upgrade the pot, rca jacks, caps and tubes in that order as money presents itself.

Here's a good website with Chime building info (not mine but he made similar choices except he was smarter about the controls):

http://mtbaldy.us/~dnewman/chime/

PSP

Thanks, jcmjrt.  Very helpful.

Peter

dnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 78
Greetings all,

I am writing you to inquire about the USB Tube based DAC. From what I can tell, it looks like a great unit that is available in Kit form. For those of you who own and used to own the chime, what so you think of is sound quality?  I would to know as much and I can from you!

Do you feel this is a quality unit that plays music, is quiet , noise? What is the musically like, build quality, reliability, etc?

Is this a tough unit to build?

There's no doubt in my mind that the Chime is a quality kit.  The circuit board is top notch: HagTech
pays for quality boards.  Nice and thick glass, thick copper, strong plate through, good masking,
thoughtful labelling backed up with legible silk screening, consistent tinning of the pads, etc.  Mind
you, none of that is rocket science. It's just a matter of using a board fab which offers quality
manufacturing and then paying for it.  Additionally, the board is well laid out with generous pads,
good spacing between components, thermals as needed, nice traces, and an eye towards being
friendly/welcoming to tinkering/modding.  However, there are other, non-book-learned aspects to
making quality kits and that's where HagTech clearly stands heads above the rest.  The design is
superb sonically as well as engineering wise (i.e., following safe design practices, taking failure
behaviors into account, keeping well, well within rated tolerances and limits, etc.).  Additionally,
the realization of the design as a kit is fantastic as well: another case where you simply need
lots of experience and willingness to iterate over your design (and sometimes obliterate parts of it).

So yes, I find it to be a quality kit.  Indeed, I think HagTech's kits are the best DIY electronic
kits I've built.  (I've been soldering electronic kits since I was a kid in the 60's.)

As to reliability, my units have been running solid for 1 and 3/4 years now.

The Chime is definitely my favorite DAC, tubed or otherwise.  It has just the right amount
of 2nd harmonic coloring, adding just enough warmth.  When I want something a little
more sterile, I use my modified Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid pre-amp: modified
for 30dB gain and with an onboard HagTech HagDAC (the DAC daughterboard found within
a Chime).  [For example, for harpsichord recordings I prefer less warmth from the electronics.]

At this point, I have two Chimes plus my GG pre-amp + HagDAC and I've kept with them for
nearly two years now: I'm blissfully content with them and have no interest in replacing them.

As to noise, they are for me dead quiet.  And, for what it's worth, I use very sensitive speakers
(98 dB in my office, and 102 dB in the home).  That is, if my equipment is noisy, I'll hear it.
I did have an issue a while back with a lousy power supply for a SqueezeBox 3 which was
causing the SB3 to put out a 46VAC signal on it's S/PDIF RCA jacks.  That then carried through
into the Chime.  However, Jim of HagTech quickly helped me resolve it by suggesting I use a
tiny 1:1 pulse transformer as an isolation transformer.  (Digikey 470-1006-ND; approximately
the same size as the USB isolation transformer, T500, used in the Chime.)  Mind you, the Chime
was NOT at fault here: the problem was first and foremost with the digital transport.   HagTech
was just helping me to work around the problem within my system even though their part of
my system was not at fault.

Now for the tough question: is it a hard unit to build.  Well, I found it them quite easy and enjoyable
to build.  No problems: they fired up and ran wonderfully the first time.  (Always leaves me worried
for a day or two.)  However, I've built lots of kits over the years and have always been good with
my hands.  Just take your time, double checking ALL parts: are they the correct part, have you installed
them in the correct location (which includes knowing which side of the board they go on), and are
they in the correct orientation (e.g., polarity)?  Only install a few parts at a time and then, under GOOD
light, inspect the solder joins with a magnifying glass.  Then trim the leads and again inspect the joins
under a magnifying glass.  Since I'm not trying to assemble boards for a living, I often take the time
to reflow the solder and again inspect the joins.  Oh, and remember to OFTEN wipe the tip of your
soldering iron on that sponge you moistened.  It also helps to have a soldering iron whose temperature
you can adjust.

For me the most tedious part was the chasis.  Not so much hard as just tedious.  Not the part of
kit building that I enjoy overly much.

If you've never assembled an electronics kit -- one which requires soldering -- then I wouldn't
make this my first project.  Instead get your feet wet with something very simple.  (However,
be warned that there are some devilishly difficult "simple" kits out there.  I cite some of the
cutesy Velleman LED Xmas kits my kids asked me to assemble about two years ago.  Talk about
microscopic pads and oh-too-close spacing.)  Most public libraries have a book or two which will
illustrate the fundamentals of soldering.

If, however, you are comfortable soldering electronics, there's another IMPORTANT consideration:
tube electronics often involves HIGH DC voltages.   The Chime sports at least 305VDC.  Now, don't
be telling yourself, "Oh, I've accidentally gotten 120V from my wall outlet and it was annoying but
bearable."  Bzzzzzt!  This is Direct Current (DC) voltage and not Alternating Current (AC) voltage.
I suspect that a nice solid 120V DC is pretty unpleasant.  I can tell you for a fact that the ~200V DC
I one time got was significantly painful and burnt the tips of my fingers.  You need to have some
electrical common sense and experience before attempting to work with such kits.

Anyhow, I've rambled on too long.  Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Dan (author of the previously cited website in which I offer up
my experiences building two Chimes)

rotcoddam

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 102
Lizard,
   I built a Chime at the beginning of this year. I couldn't be happier. I've owned 3 other dacs. A Dac Ah that was modified to death, a Tadac which was a very nice dac and an Audio Alchemy dde 3.0 dac  and although they weren't the best dacs out there they were great units. The Chime is far better than any of them.
It's really not that hard to put it together either. If you haven't done a kit, it may be somewhat of a challenge. If you've done some kits, this is a dream.
Some of the changes I made were using IRC resistors in the signal path. Handmade Audio has them. http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=7   [220ohm?], bypassing the output caps with .1 russian teflons, using Solens in the power supply [47uf]. I left out the pot since i'm using a Squeezebox, and added a BNC connector on back, instead of 2 digital RCA's.
I took out the power supply bypass caps. I didn't think they were needed anymore, since I was using the Solens. Unbelievably, the resistors made a nice change to an already outstanding dac.
Anyway, this dac isn't going anywhere.
  I consider the Chime the prize piece of my whole system.
Marty 

PSP

Gentlemen,
Thank you.  My system is:
- Linkwitz Orions
- Aspen AKSA 100N+ amps on the bass drivers
- Aspen Life Force 25w amps on the tweeters, Life Force 55w amps on the mids

- Aspen GK-1 tube preamp (adds just a little 2nd harmonics to take the SS edge off.)

Question:  do you think the Chime would work well with my tubed preamp?  The GK-1 sounds highly resolving, balanced, and nicely musical vs. "rolled off and tubey".

Thanks,
Peter

hagtech

The CHIME will not give you that rolled off tubey sound.  It is more towards the neutral/fast side.  Rolling tubes will change the sonics, but I don't think you can get it to be rolled off on the top end.

jh

PSP

Jim,
Thanks.  If I wanted to spread out the expenditure, would it be possible (and practical) to build the HAGDAC and use it for a few months and then later as funds allow build it into the Chime?  A reasonable plan?
 
Peter

dnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 78
Jim,
Thanks.  If I wanted to spread out the expenditure, would it be possible (and practical) to build the HAGDAC and use it for a few months and then later as funds allow build it into the Chime?  A reasonable plan?
 
Peter

The HagDAC card is pre-assembled and tested by HagTech.  Not something
you want to assemble yourself: lots of teeny, tiny surface mount parts.
While you can buy just a HagDAC card, you then need to build it a power
supply, input section, and then something to amplify its outputs.  Also,
I believe that the HagDAC card itself is ~$499 and the Chime $549.  That
is, you're paying $50 above the cost of the DAC card for the nearly bare
Chime PCB, drill guide, panel decals, and directions.  (I write "nearly bare"
as HagTech mounts the surface mount USB chip onto the Chime board if
I recall correctly.)

Dan

PSP

Dan,
Thanks... but from the HagTech website, I read that the Chime needs approx $900 in raw parts, so it would seem that there's more than $50 difference in the cost between HagDac and Chime.  Correct?

So, can I run the HagDac more or less as is for $500, and then go the rest of the way with the Chime sometime later?  If not, why not?

Thanks for your help,
Peter



dnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 78
Dan,
Thanks... but from the HagTech website, I read that the Chime needs approx $900 in raw parts, so it would seem that there's more than $50 difference in the cost between HagDac and Chime.  Correct?

And the cost of the raw parts to listen with just the HagDAC would be?
As I wrote before, you still need to provide the functional equivalent of
the Chime in order to listen to a digital music stream with the HagDAC.
Put differently, if you get just a HagDAC then you still need to design and
build a couple of power supplies (one for the HagDAC, one for the
amplifier section), an input section (use a HagUSB, I suppose), and an
amplifier section.

Dan

PSP

so I guess that the answer is no. 

Dan_ed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 345
I just ordered my Chime 1/2 kit on Monday. So, I'll let you know what I think in a month or two.  :thumb:

hagtech

Shipped.

jh

Dan_ed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 345
Thanks Jim!   aa

Dan_ed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 345
Jim,

Kit/2 arrived all safe and sound.   :thumb:

regal

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 65
any hints of sibilance with the chime ?