MCH-K38 - a giant killer!

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rajacat

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #180 on: 26 Jun 2016, 07:00 pm »
It would be great if NuPrime would develop an amp with integrated DSP similar to what  the Crown XLS 1502 offers.

Evoke

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #181 on: 26 Jun 2016, 07:43 pm »
It would be great if NuPrime would develop an amp with integrated DSP similar to what  the Crown XLS 1502 offers.


Hello, Rajacat -


I was looking at the Crown features. Are you looking at the NuPrime for a pro application? I rarely see those kind of features on an audiophile amp. Less is more typically. What's your perspective - I'm curious...

rajacat

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #182 on: 26 Jun 2016, 08:17 pm »
No this wouldn't be for a pro setup. It would be for bi-amping diy speakers, so to eliminate the need for an external dsp, associated cables and passive crossover. As you say, simplify...simplify. :)

dr.sah

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #183 on: 30 Jun 2016, 11:52 am »


found it on russian web page.



reillyzing

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #184 on: 1 Jul 2016, 02:01 am »
Is the MCH K38 overkill with Spatial M3 Turbo S speakers?

audioguy213

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #185 on: 1 Jul 2016, 02:07 am »
Is the MCH K38 overkill with Spatial M3 Turbo S speakers?
do you have eight of them?

Evoke

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #186 on: 1 Jul 2016, 02:14 am »
No this wouldn't be for a pro setup. It would be for bi-amping diy speakers, so to eliminate the need for an external dsp, associated cables and passive crossover. As you say, simplify...simplify. :)


You're absolutely right. I use it to bi and tri-amp speakers I develop. It's so versatile. I've been using it lately in bridged mode (400 watts/ch) for a new little 2-way with a 5" mid-woof. 400 is overkill for that  :duh:

reillyzing

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #187 on: 1 Jul 2016, 02:30 am »
do you have eight of them?
Eight channels aside... I mean, are the Spatials capable of showing off most of the K38's abilities reasonably well?

JackD

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #188 on: 1 Jul 2016, 02:59 am »
With the Spatial's you are perfectly fine with the ST-10 and keep the cost difference in your pocket for something else.

reillyzing

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #189 on: 1 Jul 2016, 03:02 am »
With the Spatial's you are perfectly fine with the ST-10 and keep the cost difference in your pocket for something else.
Thank you

John Casler

Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #190 on: 1 Jul 2016, 04:45 am »
Is the MCH K38 overkill with Spatial M3 Turbo S speakers?

Strangely enough, I just had a gentleman with whom I was discussing the ST-10 for the Spatial M3 Turbo's that Clayton told him he would be better off with 400wpc??????

The specs say as little as 5wpc will drive them.

Go figure.

But if this fellow was in any way accurate (I think Clayton also sells a 500wpc amp) then the K-38 "bridged" would meet even those outlandish assertions.

That said, again I would defer to JackD, who actually has tried the ST-10 with them, and felt the ST-10 quite capable.

So is it "overkill"?  Well, in the fact that you would (or could) bi-amp with 400wpc x 2 into each speaker with what I have stated is the best amp my ears have heard.

But again, you would likely never explore the advantages in dynamics and SPLs, so you might be in the overkill territory (although it would be glorious)

zybar

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #191 on: 1 Jul 2016, 10:14 am »
Strangely enough, I just had a gentleman with whom I was discussing the ST-10 for the Spatial M3 Turbo's that Clayton told him he would be better off with 400wpc??????

The specs say as little as 5wpc will drive them.

Go figure.

But if this fellow was in any way accurate (I think Clayton also sells a 500wpc amp) then the K-38 "bridged" would meet even those outlandish assertions.

That said, again I would defer to JackD, who actually has tried the ST-10 with them, and felt the ST-10 quite capable.

So is it "overkill"?  Well, in the fact that you would (or could) bi-amp with 400wpc x 2 into each speaker with what I have stated is the best amp my ears have heard.

But again, you would likely never explore the advantages in dynamics and SPLs, so you might be in the overkill territory (although it would be glorious)

I have Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S speakers and they sound fantastic with a 45 watt or 800 watt amp.

Given their high sensitivity, it isn't necessarily pure SPL's, but more about the transient peaks.

I would buy/use whatever amp sounds best to you.

Good luck.

George

Eric Gustafsson

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #192 on: 7 Jul 2016, 09:04 pm »
What happened with the comparsion with STA-9 in bridged mode?

Letitroll98

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #193 on: 7 Jul 2016, 09:34 pm »
Yes, and I'd like to know more about the differences in circuit design between the STA-9, ST-10, and K38 amps.  I've read the amp comparison chart, but would like to know why the ST-10 has better soundstaging, detail and dynamics than the STA-9.  Is it the power supply, the chip, sampling frequency, what makes the difference in sound quality?

John Casler

Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #194 on: 7 Jul 2016, 10:31 pm »
Yes, and I'd like to know more about the differences in circuit design between the STA-9, ST-10, and K38 amps.  I've read the amp comparison chart, but would like to know why the ST-10 has better soundstaging, detail and dynamics than the STA-9.  Is it the power supply, the chip, sampling frequency, what makes the difference in sound quality?

Not sure if you saw this chart or not, but it pretty much gives you the primary differences:

<<<<<<<
A class-D amp product is consisted of three main components:
Preamp Stage, Class D Stage, Power Supply (note that this Preamp Stage is not the volume control preamp, but an integral front-end of the Class D amp design)

Preamp Stage design is made of
(A) - Op Amp or discrete transistors with two difference NuPrime designs:
(B) - ULCAM (Ultra Linear Class A Module) or
(C) - SECAM (Single Ended Class A Module)

Practically all the amp products on the market use Op Amp for preamp stage. Only a few very high end products use discrete transistors design. Discrete transistors design is costly and challenging to accomplish.

Class D power stage design can be Half Bridge (H) or Full Bridge (F).
Power supply can be Switching (S) or Linear (L).

Below is an illustration of how we created the unique sonic characteristic for each product:

IDA-16 = A+H+S (Op Amp + Half Bridge + Switching) for clean, fast, and powerful sound

ST-10 = A+F+L for clean, fast, smooth and refined sound

IDA-8 = B+H+L for a little more warmth and fast

STA-9 = C+H+L for tube-like sound, warmth, and fast

K-38 = C+B+H+S for the best sonic characteristic suitable for watching movies and listening to music.

>>>>>>>



As you can see, the ST-10 and the STA-9 have different combinations.

Hope that offers a bit of info for you.


Letitroll98

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #195 on: 8 Jul 2016, 01:39 am »
Thanks John, I had seen that post before, but only read it carefully today.  Unfortunately I can't see any correlation between the use of different driver stages, power stages, and power supplies and the amplifier comparison chart.  Of course I'm sure there's a good reason why some amps have either half or full bridged power stages or switched mode versus linear power supplies, it just doesn't match up in the order of the amp comparison chart.  The driver stages almost line up, but not quite.  So I'm thinking there must be either something I'm missing or it's not so much the design type, but the implementation of the technology.  It's a little look inside that implementation that I was looking for.  And to get the post back on track with the thread, how does that all work for the K 38?  It doesn't match anything.  :icon_lol:

rustydoglim

Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #196 on: 8 Jul 2016, 08:25 am »
Quote
Unfortunately I can't see any correlation between the use of different driver stages, power stages, and power supplies and the amplifier comparison chart.
I suggest that users ignore the technical details and just focus on the Amp Comparison chart. Off course you can't correlate fully because it is not as simple as assembling lego blocks to get certain result. What we have shown is the concept.

Forget about the WHY, just follow the recommendation.

For example, if you are a circuit design engineer, then you would know the trade offs between Full Bridge and Half Bridge circuit. If you don't, this is not the forum for circuit design, and I am certainly not qualified to explain. Similarly, how challenging is using discrete transistor to create the desire sonic characteristic? What we have explained here (preamp stage, Class-D amp stage, switching PSU, linear PSU and various trade offs) are known to circuit design engineers, but very few would be able to achieve the kind of control, precision and performance that we have done here. An analogy would be "we all know how to drive a car, but few can win the Indy500".

I have a master degree in electrical engineering, but major in computing. And I can only understand half of what my chief engineer is telling me (may be half is a big exaggeration). I do understand how a transistor works, and have done simple design with transistor (long time ago), But what he has done is really hard.

I met a German speaker designer at the high end show in Munich in May. He doesn't know how it works, but he is smart enough to buy the STA-9 and IDA-16, take the preamp stage of STA-9 and combine it with the power amp module in IDA-16, and created a new sound and he told me it is incredible. I guess he doesn't want as much warmth as STA-9, and also not as neutral as IDA-16. Bingo.

So imagine if one day we can let you customise your sonic characteristic comfortably at home by flipping a few switches, everything is so smooth, so powerful, so dynamic, so perfect and yet customisable. Did I just describe audio heaven? Hopefully we will get there in less than 5 years time. And it will be affordable.

drumnman2

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #197 on: 8 Jul 2016, 02:12 pm »
What happened with the comparsion with STA-9 in bridged mode?


Yes I am interested in this also if you have had the time. I know you said after "The Show"

John Casler

Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #198 on: 8 Jul 2016, 10:26 pm »

Yes I am interested in this also if you have had the time. I know you said after "The Show"
What happened with the comparsion with STA-9 in bridged mode?

Hi Guys, If you are talking about my evaluation, it is still coming.

It was my intention to do it after the show, but we ended up having to let the show attendees take the Show Samples and then the orders taken then and after the show left us in a back order position (everyone was ordering the STA-9 in pairs).

So luckily one pair just came back as someone decided to go with the MCH K-38 instead.

As soon as I receive them back, I should be able to spend a little time comparing.

Letitroll98

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Re: The BEST AMP I have EVER heard (at ANY price) has 8 channels!
« Reply #199 on: 9 Jul 2016, 12:33 am »
I suggest that users ignore the technical details and just focus on the Amp Comparison chart. Off course you can't correlate fully because it is not as simple as assembling lego blocks to get certain result. What we have shown is the concept.

Forget about the WHY, just follow the recommendation.

For example, if you are a circuit design engineer, then you would know the trade offs between Full Bridge and Half Bridge circuit. If you don't, this is not the forum for circuit design, and I am certainly not qualified to explain. Similarly, how challenging is using discrete transistor to create the desire sonic characteristic? What we have explained here (preamp stage, Class-D amp stage, switching PSU, linear PSU and various trade offs) are known to circuit design engineers, but very few would be able to achieve the kind of control, precision and performance that we have done here. An analogy would be "we all know how to drive a car, but few can win the Indy500".

I have a master degree in electrical engineering, but major in computing. And I can only understand half of what my chief engineer is telling me (may be half is a big exaggeration). I do understand how a transistor works, and have done simple design with transistor (long time ago), But what he has done is really hard.

I met a German speaker designer at the high end show in Munich in May. He doesn't know how it works, but he is smart enough to buy the STA-9 and IDA-16, take the preamp stage of STA-9 and combine it with the power amp module in IDA-16, and created a new sound and he told me it is incredible. I guess he doesn't want as much warmth as STA-9, and also not as neutral as IDA-16. Bingo.

So imagine if one day we can let you customise your sonic characteristic comfortably at home by flipping a few switches, everything is so smooth, so powerful, so dynamic, so perfect and yet customisable. Did I just describe audio heaven? Hopefully we will get there in less than 5 years time. And it will be affordable.

Thanks for the reply Jason.  I understand what you're saying and accept your explanation.  I like the story about the German and the idea of a configurable amp.  Keep us posted.