[Onadifferentnote]

It's impossible to talk about Covid if people don't put their politics to the side.  My family got covid, my grandmother died from it.  Those are the facts.  Also, it seems like you are assuming that because I'm pro-vax that I'm a Dem, but in fact I am not.  So how can my assertions be political in nature? 

Here's what I know.  A deadly, contagious disease does not care about which political views you have.  It will infect and kill you regardless.  That's just nature, nature is brutal and unforgiving. 

Luckily, through some seriously impressive science, we have a shield against this killer.  Taking it is not a political act.  It's an act of self preservation and an act to protect your fellow man.  So leave the politics out of it and try to think of it rationally, from outside the existing political narratives.  If you do, I think you'll see that getting vax'd and reducing your chance of getting Covid by 10x is not political, it's absolutely and entirely practical.

Well said Tyson.

[SteveFord]

Tyson,
Sorry to hear that as well, bad situation for everybody.  This is one nasty virus.
I'm hoping to go out like Nelson Rockefeller but will probably get squished like a squirrel by a semi.

My guess is another year before things return to what passes for normal but I suspect the shot will be an annual thing like the flu.

From asking around I'm told the dealers are dropping like flies.
Direct sales, word of mouth and online reviews looks to be the wave of the future.
I think the shows will make a rebound, though.

[mix4fix]

It's impossible to talk about Covid if people don't put their politics to the side.  My family got covid, my grandmother died from it.  Those are the facts.  Also, it seems like you are assuming that because I'm pro-vax that I'm a Dem, but in fact I am not.  So how can my assertions be political in nature? 

Here's what I know.  A deadly, contagious disease does not care about which political views you have.  It will infect and kill you regardless.  That's just nature, nature is brutal and unforgiving. 

Luckily, through some seriously impressive science, we have a shield against this killer.  Taking it is not a political act.  It's an act of self preservation and an act to protect your fellow man.  So leave the politics out of it and try to think of it rationally, from outside the existing political narratives.  If you do, I think you'll see that getting vax'd and reducing your chance of getting Covid by 10x is not political, it's absolutely and entirely practical.

And, you assume people like me are anti-vax, but I am not anti-vax. I am anti this shot they are pushing on us. For a good reason. But, it doesn't matter. You are focused on the tree, but not the whole forest.

But ultimately, this is all about government taking away our God-given rights. Rights to live our lives the way we want to. Should I be forced to do something against my will in order to fit in? That's what you people are saying. Get this vax, or be cast out. Discriminated against. People are being fired over this. It's not just some dumb event we are not allowed to attend. As I said: heroes one year, garbage the next.

But, answer this: if you are vaccinated, what are people afraid of enjoying life? It is one thing to not go because you don't care about CAF anymore, and not not go because you are scared of getting sick over something you are supposedly protected against. You just said it as a shield. At what point would tell those in charge that I got the shot, what more do you want from me? Screw your boosters. Screw your masks.

[mix4fix]

From asking around I'm told the dealers are dropping like flies.
Direct sales, word of mouth and online reviews looks to be the wave of the future.
I think the shows will make a rebound, though.

Please explain what you heard about the dealers.

[Tyson]

And, you assume people like me are anti-vax, but I am not anti-vax. I am anti this shot they are pushing on us. For a good reason. But, it doesn't matter. You are focused on the tree, but not the whole forest.

But ultimately, this is all about government taking away our God-given rights. Rights to live our lives the way we want to. Should I be forced to do something against my will in order to fit in? That's what you people are saying. Get this vax, or be cast out. Discriminated against. People are being fired over this. It's not just some dumb event we are not allowed to attend. As I said: heroes one year, garbage the next.

But, answer this: if you are vaccinated, what are people afraid of enjoying life? It is one thing to not go because you don't care about CAF anymore, and not not go because you are scared of getting sick over something you are supposedly protected against. You just said it as a shield. At what point would tell those in charge that I got the shot, what more do you want from me? Screw your boosters. Screw your masks.

Man, not only did you not leave your politics out of it, now you've brought religion in, too.  This is the wrong direction my friend.

So, re: your initial statement about not being anti-vaxx in general but only against this particular vax, let me ask a clarifying question so I can understand better what you mean.  Are you saying the covid vax does not work?  Or something else?  You seem to have some problems with the vaccine itself, so let's explore that.  What exactly is the issue with the covid vax, do you feel?

And re: your other questions, in fact I am not afraid of getting Covid anymore, because as I already stated, I have already had it.  My whole family had it.  And we all got vax'd too.  So, pretty well protected.  And it seems that the Moderna vax we got is also fairly protective against the Delta variant.  Mostly I wear a mask because there's a small (but real) chance that I might inadvertently spread the disease to someone else.  Which is ONLY a concern now because not everyone is vaxxed.  If we'd already had 90% vax rates, then things could go back to normal.  But we haven't, so things can't.  That's on you, and people like you. 

As far as your rights, I agree with you.  You should be able to do whatever the hell you want.  As long as your choices don't harm other people.  But if your actions cause direct harm to others, then that's a problem.  For example, you can drink all the alcohol you want.  And you can drive your car all you want.  Those things are fine.  But if you drink a lot and then drive, that's putting others in harms way.  And if you kill someone with your choices, then you are brought up on manslaughter charges.   

Practically I feel like if you do not get the vaccine and you infect someone else and they die from it, then you should be brought up on manslaughter charges.  Harsh, true.  But it's the only way I can see that might actually stop this legion of typhoid Marys we've developed in this country.

[rooze]

Poster removed

[lancruiser_]

It’s unfortunate there isn’t a vaccination to eradicate ignorance and false sense of entitlement. That would be a Nobel prize contender IMHO.

[mix4fix]

Man, not only did you not leave your politics out of it, now you've brought religion in, too.  This is the wrong direction my friend.

So, re: your initial statement about not being anti-vaxx in general but only against this particular vax, let me ask a clarifying question so I can understand better what you mean.  Are you saying the covid vax does not work?  Or something else?  You seem to have some problems with the vaccine itself, so let's explore that.  What exactly is the issue with the covid vax, do you feel?

And re: your other questions, in fact I am not afraid of getting Covid anymore, because as I already stated, I have already had it.  My whole family had it.  And we all got vax'd too.  So, pretty well protected.  And it seems that the Moderna vax we got is also fairly protective against the Delta variant.  Mostly I wear a mask because there's a small (but real) chance that I might inadvertently spread the disease to someone else.  Which is ONLY a concern now because not everyone is vaxxed.  If we'd already had 90% vax rates, then things could go back to normal.  But we haven't, so things can't.  That's on you, and people like you. 

As far as your rights, I agree with you.  You should be able to do whatever the hell you want.  As long as your choices don't harm other people.  But if your actions cause direct harm to others, then that's a problem.  For example, you can drink all the alcohol you want.  And you can drive your car all you want.  Those things are fine.  But if you drink a lot and then drive, that's putting others in harms way.  And if you kill someone with your choices, then you are brought up on manslaughter charges.   

Practically I feel like if you do not get the vaccine and you infect someone else and they die from it, then you should be brought up on manslaughter charges.  Harsh, true.  But it's the only way I can see that might actually stop this legion of typhoid Marys we've developed in this country.

God-given doesn't mean religion. We all have God-given rights, irregardless of you our beliefs. You can be atheist but want to live your life as you please. Religion is another discussion. Not applicable here.

The intent has to be proven: was my intent to go to CAF and get someone sick? You also have to prove that it came from me and not from those other attendees, vendors, and staff.

Do this: look up online and find me the video about the lab who tested the vaccine, and the strange organism in it. Find me the picture of  bag of red blood, and the bag of brown blood. Answer why certain people are not required to have this vaccine. Answer why certain people are using something different that the rest of us.

If you don't find it, that will tell you something. If do find it, that will tell you something. other than that, people are just insulting others for not being sheep.

[Tyson]

God-given doesn't mean religion. We all have God-given rights, irregardless of you our beliefs. You can be atheist but want to live your life as you please. Religion is another discussion. Not applicable here.

The intent has to be proven: was my intent to go to CAF and get someone sick? You also have to prove that it came from me and not from those other attendees, vendors, and staff.

Do this: look up online and find me the video about the lab who tested the vaccine, and the strange organism in it. Find me the picture of  bag of red blood, and the bag of brown blood. Answer why certain people are not required to have this vaccine. Answer why certain people are using something different that the rest of us.

If you don't find it, that will tell you something. If do find it, that will tell you something. other than that, people are just insulting others for not being sheep.

Dude, I have no idea what you are blathering on about.  That just looks like a bunch of crazy talk.  Next thing you know, you'll be telling me the earth is flat and it's all a giant conspiracy. 

Anyway, I'm not going to look anything up.  I'm completely out of the news cycle and completely off social media, so if you want me to understand something, you must explain it here, in this thread, clearly.  Then we can talk about it directly.  So, try again, but more explicitly.  What exactly are you saying?

[maxima95]

So those that got vaccines to protect themselves, family and others are sheep?

Go away.  Stay in your own little world.

[Early B.]

God-given doesn't mean religion. We all have God-given rights, irregardless of you our beliefs.

If God gave you a right, then no man can take it away. You also don't understand your rights as a citizen -- it doesn't mean you can say or do what you want, especially if it harms others. Bottom line --- you're wrong about your rights. Your beliefs and opinions have no basis in law. Show me where in the Constitution (assuming you're American) it says you have the right to not get vaccinated or tested during a pandemic. I'll wait...     

[mix4fix]

If God gave you a right, then no man can take it away. You also don't understand your rights as a citizen -- it doesn't mean you can say or do what you want, especially if it harms others. Bottom line --- you're wrong about your rights. Your beliefs and opinions have no basis in law. Show me where in the Constitution (assuming you're American) it says you have the right to not get vaccinated or tested during a pandemic. I'll wait...   

First Amendment isn't just about speaking: it is freedom of though. If you think a person is fat, so be it. It doesn't give you the right to physically hurt them. Most of us can morally understand that. A law just sets it in stone.

Show me where it specifically say you have to get vaccinated or tested if 51% of the people say so.

[Early B.]

Show me where it specifically say you have to get vaccinated or tested if 51% of the people say so.

Sure, no problem. You can start here for a general overview: https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws.html

or here:  https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/vaccine-mandates#1

And here's an article that speaks about legal precedents requiring vaccination:  https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027132680/can-the-government-make-me-get-the-covid-vaccine

There are at least a million other articles if you take 5 seconds to google them.

See what I doing -- I'm providing facts. Unfortunately, COVID doesn't have ears to hear the wailing of the opinionated unvaccinated.   

[mix4fix]

Sure, no problem. You can start here for a general overview: https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws.html

or here:  https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/vaccine-mandates#1

And here's an article that speaks about legal precedents requiring vaccination:  https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027132680/can-the-government-make-me-get-the-covid-vaccine

There are at least a million other articles if you take 5 seconds to google them.

See what I doing -- I'm providing facts. Unfortunately, COVID doesn't have ears to hear the wailing of the opinionated unvaccinated.   

No. You said Constitution. I don't care about anything else. Our discussion is about the Constitution.

Show me where in the Constitution (assuming you're American) it says you have the right to not get vaccinated or tested during a pandemic.   

Show me where it specifically say you have to get vaccinated or tested if 51% of the people say so.

I'll wait...

[Tyson]

I was hoping for an explanation from you about your last post and your specific problems with the Covid vaccine.  But fine, ignore it.

And as others have pointed out (and I have too), you are free to do anything you want as long as it's not harming others.  That's baked into our constitution at a very fundamental level.  You'd know that if you'd read it (I have, more than once). 

So as best I can tell you either:
a) Don't think that this is true (that your rights end when they result in harm to others)
or
b) You don't think staying un-vaxxed puts others in harm's way

So which is it?  Or is it both?

[Early B.]

No. You said Constitution. I don't care about anything else. Our discussion is about the Constitution.

We can't have an intelligent conversation if you disregard state and national laws that are firmly rooted in the Constitution. It's like talking with someone who swears unicorns are real, but when you correct them with facts and science, they demand more proof when they have no evidence whatsoever to support their claim that unicorns exist.
       

[mix4fix]

I was hoping for an explanation from you about your last post and your specific problems with the Covid vaccine.  But fine, ignore it.

And as others have pointed out (and I have too), you are free to do anything you want as long as it's not harming others.  That's baked into our constitution at a very fundamental level.  You'd know that if you'd read it (I have, more than once). 

So as best I can tell you either:
a) Don't think that this is true (that your rights end when they result in harm to others)
or
b) You don't think staying un-vaxxed puts others in harm's way

So which is it?  Or is it both?

I understand my Constitution Rights. Obviously, the other guy doesn't if he is pointing out things on the internet, and not the Constitution itself. That's why i use the 51% analogy. We are a Republic, not a democracy. 51% can't tell the other 49% what to do. We have freedoms.

Getting the vax doesn't guarantee you from not getting it and not spreading it, and not getting the vax doesn't mean your natural immunity will not protect you from getting sick, so what's next? Most of the vaccinated don't want to go, the un-vaccinated just want to be included, and the rest here are people who just jumped to this thread to insult people and trash this thread.

[Tyson]

You didn't really answer my question.  Try again, please.

[rbbert]

... I can tell you that emergency rooms are not being over-run with Covid patients...

Obviously you weren't near a Florida hospital in August or September

[rbbert]

No talk of natural immunity? Enjoy your shots and boosters...

There is no easily usable way to demonstrate natural immunity.  Many people who have had COVID19 (especially mild cases) have poor and short-lived immunity (as demonstrated by some being re-infected and dying).  In addition, there is no serum antibody level "cut-off" that assures immunity.