AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Planar Circle => Topic started by: Lynxo on 22 Jul 2020, 08:07 pm
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Hi,
Curious what amplifier you are using in your current planar set up.
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Pass 250.8 for my 3.7i simply glorious sound.
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Parasound Classic 5250 w/Magnepan LRS. :D
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There are several to choose from. Do you have a budget in mind ? Basically any quality SS amp with 200W/ch will do just fine. To be specific provide a price range. Remember it is not just the amp. It is a system.
charles
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Back in 2010 I bought Magenpan 3.6 and some Bryston.. So I own a Bryston 4B-SST² amp. a few years ago I bought 20.7 Magnepan to replace the 3.6
I kept the Bryston 4B-SST²
The amp is all i need. though in a few years I may? or may not buy a 14B3 to replace it.
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Pass X250, may eventually upgrade to the X250.5 or 250.8. Just fabulous sound and dynamics.
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There are several to choose from. Do you have a budget in mind ? Basically any quality SS amp with 200W/ch will do just fine. To be specific provide a price range. Remember it is not just the amp. It is a system.
charles
Respectfully feel the above has put the cart before the horse. The OP doesn't write what amp will work best with my (i.e. his) planers. If that's the OP's intent he should write so. The amps which works best with one set of speakers in a particular environment (e.g Quad ESL in a small live room) will not necessarily be the amps which work best in an different setting (e.g. Magnapan 3.n in a large, heavily carpeted & upholstered room.) I suggest the OP clarify the direction of his thought so we may better reply. FWIW, I've used a Classe CA200 and/or EAR 509 with ML Quests for c.30 years. Passively biamped when and.
As always YMMV,
/mp
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Pass Labs X-350.5. Soon Krell KMA-160. Going from sliding Class A to pure Class A.
Mine are 3.6r with custom XO. When I get home from work today I'll post a pic. Quite the capacitor cocktail!
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Biamping my 3.6R’s with a Pass Labs X250.8 and a pair of Bryston 7B SST’s. I got my hands on a Pass Labs XVR-1 crossover which is a significant step up from my modded Marchand XM44. A pair of REL S/5 SHO’s fills the bottom end.
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Bryston 4B3. If an amp was ever designed for Magnepan, this would be the one.
I could not be more pleased with this purchase.
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On a side note, and hoping not to derail the thread, I would almost go for Pass Amp(s) but shudder at what class A would do to my already too hot apartment.
One plus for Bryston is the fact that Bryston went the other way. halving the idle class A current. more so due to EU and Canadian energy efficiency restrictions than (perhaps) other considerations..
But the newer 4B3 idles at half the AC wattage of the older 4B-SST² as do all of the Bryston Amp lineup.. All the while sounding better.
So if I bought a 14B3 it would use at idle the same as my half the wattage 4B-SST²
Note I am listening to music all day. so even if I shut my equipment off, it would be off only 9 hours a day, on average...
Then I remember well the post years ago of a new Pass Class A owner, who bought four large class A Pass amps and left them on 24/7.. until he got the first month after electric bill and discovered his bill went up $1000. :o
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Respectfully feel the above has put the cart before the horse. The OP doesn't write what amp will work best with my (i.e. his) planers. If that's the OP's intent he should write so. The amps which works best with one set of speakers in a particular environment (e.g Quad ESL in a small live room) will not necessarily be the amps which work best in an different setting (e.g. Magnapan 3.n in a large, heavily carpeted & upholstered room.) I suggest the OP clarify the direction of his thought so we may better reply. FWIW, I've used a Classe CA200 and/or EAR 509 with ML Quests for c.30 years. Passively biamped when and.
As always YMMV,
/mp
Being a Maggie owner for 20 years we have found any quality SS amp worked well. My "favorite" amp is moot as one is listening to a system not am amp/speaker combo.
If I were to choose an amp to consider it would be 250W/ch minimum hybrid design . Synergy over brand every time. My favorite amp for the system was a Plinius at the time.
charles
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Hi,
To clarify, I was just asking what you have and what you are happy with.
Happy since many of us try different amps till we settle on one.
Definitely YMMV.
Legendary Pass with legendary price, can’t touch those. I bet they are quite amazing.
Thanks for the replies. Seems Pass and Brystons pop up often.
I did get a used Khartago Stereo, will set up in few weeks.
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Lynxo,
That Kahartago might just be sweet with Maggies. Please let us know how you like it.
Here is what my XO looks like:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212312)
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I’ve been using a Bel Canto REF500S amp for months now, there’s plenty of power for my .7’s. I paired it with a Prima Luna EVO 100 tube preamp, it sounds wonderful.
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My favorite amp for the system was a Plinius at the time.
Charlie, I with you there, many fond memories of my SA-102 ..... :D
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The Parasound JC1 or 1+ are brilliant with planars and ESLs. Any of the Pass 200 watt amps are fine. Then there is Krell, Boulder, Gryphon, Sanders, Atma-Sphere and others. Basically, any high current A or AB amp over 200 watts will do. If you are running subwoofers anything over 120 watts will do. This is for people who are into loud dynamic music. If you are a quiet music person you can get away with much less power but I would stick with a class A amp or one that runs in class A up to 25 watts. IMHE the more powerful amps also seem to sound better at low volumes.
I can't say enough about the JC 1. It is the amplifier value of the century and there are painfully few amps that sound better regardless of price. The JC 1+ is out and I suspect there will be quite a few JC 1s on the market shortly.
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Hi,
To clarify, I was just asking what you have and what you are happy with.
Happy since many of us try different amps till we settle on one.
Definitely YMMV.
Legendary Pass with legendary price, can’t touch those. I bet they are quite amazing.
Thanks for the replies. Seems Pass and Brystons pop up often.
I did get a used Khartago Stereo, will set up in few weeks.
The best way to go with Pass on a budget is go the used route. Their amps are built like tanks and are built to last.
The Pass sound is not for everyone. They typically have a more smooth rounded sound and they don't have the fastest bass but I find it more natural sounding than amps with very high dampening factors. They do pair well with Maggies though.
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Lynxo,
That Kahartago might just be sweet with Maggies. Please let us know how you like it.
Here is what my XO looks like:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212312)
Hi Jake,
Nice blend :D
Did you experiment with different brands?
I see Solens, Clarity. Have you tried Jantzens?
You bypassed the fuse for the ribbons?
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In my younger days I always wanted to try Parasound Halo but it was out of reach. Would you say Parasound is detailed dynamic signature?
I’m used to more natural sound on smooth side, tubes. Can’t handle the shrilly detailed highs.
I had the Primaluna Dialogue, that was a nice set. I will look into the Primaluna Evo Pre.
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My go-to amp for decades was a Moscode 300; used it with DQ-10s, ML Quests, Maggie 1.6, even briefly with a borrowed pair of Sound Labs.
It sang on the Maggie 1.6s in a BIG room, but ran out of gas on the Maggie 20.1s. It was good, but something was missing. A local GAS member had a Primare A32 amp for sale, and offered to let me A-B the two amps on his system. Astonishing difference. Bass, depth, width, slam, clarity, you name it, right from the get-go.
It's now in my system running full range (20.1s) and I'm experimenting with two subs (old DQ-1Ws) run from another amp. The difference in the amps in my system vs. his is exactly the same. Vocals are pristine, but maybe just a tad bright. I'll have to play with the HF resistor some time.
It's an 80+ lb. beast!
:thumb:
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Lynxo, the JC 1 sounds like a very powerful tube amp but with great bass and dynamics. It has the airy, effortless presentation of a class A amp. You would be hard pressed to do better with 20.7's or 3.7i's. You are talking Constellation, Boulder or Atma-Sphere and serious money. I use JC 1s on my Custom electrostatics. No other amp has been able to drive them well. The impedance drops to 1/2 ohm at 20K and the JC 1's just cruise away effortlessly. If you can find a pair for 4-5K I promise it will be the best money you ever spent.
Sound Labs has used JC 1's for demonstrations. It and the Atma-Sphere MA 2 seem to be their favorite amps. I would love to try the Atma-Sphere MA 2's but they are presently beyond my reach. I think they are 45K a pair. New JC 1+'s are 18K a pair. It would be very hard for me to spend more than that. Everything else is way beyond the point of diminishing returns.
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I'm currently using a Bel Canto E1x integrated amp on my Eminent technology 8bs. It's rated at 180w per channel 8 ohms and it drives the 8bs to 90db+ in a large (240 sq ft) room with no strain or Class D glare. It is "voiced" very well for long term listening, but will reveal weak links in your system from source to cables.
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Hi Jake,
Nice blend :D
Did you experiment with different brands?
I see Solens, Clarity. Have you tried Jantzens?
You bypassed the fuse for the ribbons?
Hi Lynxo,
I did not make these the previous owner did with some help from Gary Koh Of Genesis fame. I bought them from a member of the Pacific NW Audio Society and Gary is involved with that club. My next step would be active crossover.
No the tweeter fuses are still in the circuit and not using a resistor yet. I'd like to experiment with jumpers made of different metals.
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Giant VTL mono blocks.
Not the thing for the summer months and you wouldn't want to be carrying them up and down the stairs too often, though.
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VTL Monoblocks, $18K a pair, Wow! :-)
I have been reading up on 2 way active crossover to split the low end(40Hz) to subs and the high end to the planars. There is a video on youtube about this. My only thought, what impact would the active crossover have on the sound signature especially if the set up is mostly tube based.
Source—>DAC(tube)—>Active Cross(op amp)—> High/Low Outputs—>Preamp(tube)—>Amp(tube)
I have seen only studio type op amp based active crossover. I actually have one, dbx 223xs but never used it. Just never got there but will
some day. In any case, which active crossover would you consider for your set up, one that would not degrade the sound without breaking the bank.
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I have been reading up on 2 way active crossover to split the low end(40Hz) to subs and the high end to the planars. There is a video on youtube about this. My only thought, what impact would the active crossover have on the sound signature especially if the set up is mostly tube based.
Source—>DAC(tube)—>Active Cross(op amp)—> High/Low Outputs—>Preamp(tube)—>Amp(tube)
I have seen only studio type op amp based active crossover. I actually have one, dbx 223xs but never used it. Just never got there but will
some day. In any case, which active crossover would you consider for your set up, one that would not degrade the sound without breaking the bank.
I cringed when I saw the words op amp. A lot of components out there use op amps to stay within budget. Examples are OPA 2132/2134 and OPA627’s. While the 627’s are better, they still pale in comparison to discrete components. This is why I modded my Marchand to get rid of the stock 2134’s and replace them with Burson Audio V3 and now Vivid V6 ones. Still, the Marchand isn’t a match to my Pass which is a two-boxed, well designed and thought out crossover. It’s not even close.
That being said, going active is not the best option for many. You must take into consideration the added expense of an extra component, interconnects, amp(s) and speaker cables. However, if you are interested, a Bryston crossover may be in your sights. There are some threads on the Audiogon Forums about different crossovers.
Over the years / decade, I’ve learned to get rid of components using op amps and a SMPS (switched mode power supply). I enjoy doing my own mods, and love how my Hakko soldering station warms up in seconds.
BTW, the crossover is placed after your preamp.
Marchand with Burson Vivid V6’s
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212422)
Pass Labs XVR-1
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212423)
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Source—>DAC(tube)—>Active Cross(op amp)—> High/Low Outputs—>Preamp(tube) —>Amp(tube)
You'll need 2x preamps w/the crossover there. Also, you're locked into a sole source unless your DAC has multiple inputs--in which case it's acting as pre-amp (source selection). The pre-amps only are controlling gain. Is that your intent? I imagine more folks would put the xover post pre:
Source—>DAC(tube)—>Preamp(tube) -->Active Cross(op amp)—> High/Low Outputs—>Amps(tube)
As always YMMV.
Enjoy,
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Using a McCormack DNA500 with my Apogee Duetta Sig's. it's an arc welder of an amp that is just effortless on these demanding speakers.
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I started with Maggie 1.7 and Emo 1L mono blocks which didn't work out well at all a bit grainy sounding and for some reasons amps blew and kept having to be returned, I moved to the Parasound Halo Hint which was a wonderful match for the 1.7. Upgrade fever hit and I went for the 3.7i with a pass 250.8 this is a terrific match and the heat isn't as bad as what people think, you can feel it touching the top of the amp and maybe going up about a foot and a bit on the side heat sinks. I try to allow at least half an hour for the amp to warm up. I think I'm done unless a pair of 20.7 comes up at a can't resist price.
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I agree with Pass amps. I am using a Pass Aleph 5 with my LRS amps. ~100W into the 3 ohm load and sweet single-ended class A. An Aleph 4 might be even better and so I have all the boards (KK Audio) and parts to build a mono block pair form scratch. Keeps me off the streets. ~160W into the 3 ohm load, again single-ended Class A.
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Agree with PASS (and Plinius), IMO they can do whatever is needed in the world of SS.
tubes, that is for another discussion ........
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I've never had a ton of money to spend on amps at any time in my 45 years in audiophilia. When I got my first Maggies (MG-1s, purchased new in 1978), I powered them for about 10 years with a GAS Son of Ampzilla. I replaced that with a B&K ST-140, which I loved, and used for the next 10-12 years until I sold the speakers. I got new .7s last September and bought a new amp along with them - an Emotiva BasX A-300. It works great with the .7s, putting out close to 300 wpc into a 4-ohm load. Stable, neutral, seems to have a lot of reserve for punch and dynamics, and a very detailed soundstage. I don't kid myself that it's the be-all, end-all, but I think it punches way the hell above its $400 price point, and it's a much better sounding amp than the old Son and B&K, as good as they were.
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Depends on how low the impedance goes. If dipping down to 2 Ohms not every amp can handle that well. Budget as well matters.
charles
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cayin iha-6 with teac ud-501
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Anybody try the Chiro by Kinergetics. I have several and it is GOBS of current!
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Considering that my planars are 97db efficient and a flat 8 ohm load, and only go down to 150 hz (where they are off-loaded to powered OB subs), I can run puny little amps like the single ended pentode Dennis Had Inspire mono blocks which put out 12 watts. Goes very loud and sounds glorious.
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Anybody try the Chiro by Kinergetics. I have several and it is GOBS of current!
Unfortunately I don't thing you'll get too many bites. Kinergetics closed their doors in August 2000.
https://www.stereophile.com/news/10843/index.html (https://www.stereophile.com/news/10843/index.html).
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Carver TFM-45 with my LRS.
http://www.carversound.mobi/carver-amplifiers/tfm-45/
When I ordered my LRS Magnepan's comments were oh the LRS will be happy. But you either love or hate Carver gear
I did try a Carver tube similar to the Crimson 275 @100wpc but it lacked the ability to push the LRS. I have tested both a NAD 7100 (my son's) and a Sanyo system 240 just for fun, neither had the ability either
FWIW, I may have one of my TFM-45 up for sale in the future as I do not really need 2
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An old Classe CA-101A has served me very well on the high end of bi-amped 3.6Rs.
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Nothing I have heard beats the Mark Levinson 27.5 amp driving the Maggie’s.
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An old Classe CA-101A has served me very well on the high end of bi-amped 3.6Rs.
I use a CA 200 on the mids and highs on my 3.6Rs. What's your bass panel amp?
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Am currently using the PS Audio BHK Signature 300 monos with my 3.7i's and the PS Audio BHK Signature 250 stereo with my 1.7i's. Best amps I've heard yet with my Magnaplanars. Audio by Van Alstine FET Valve 600 is also very good (like the BHK's it is a hybrid - tube front end and MOSFET power section). These sound better in my systems than the Bryston 4B SST2 and Parasound A21 that I used before them. Am selling the Bryston and the AVA if anyone is interested.
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On rejoining the Maggie fold (I bought a pair of .7s in 2019 after selling my MG1s more than 20 years prior) I first used my old B&K ST-140, which was quickly replaced by an Emotiva BasX A-300, which was an incredible amp for the money, and a big improvement over the B&K. I kept it for about a year before trading it and an old preamp toward a pair of PS Audio M700 monoblocks. They are by far the best amps I've heard with the very few .7s I've experienced (those would be my own pair, and the local dealer's demo pair that was being driven by a Cambridge integrated).
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I use a CA 200 on the mids and highs on my 3.6Rs. What's your bass panel amp?
Concur +1
Classe CA200 and/or EAR 509 w/ML Quests.
Is it my favorite or the best? Don't know. Adequate to get off the upgrade merry-go-round ~25 years ago. No longer sample the competition. Doesn't keep me from looking at audio porn daily.
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With my Janszen Valentinas, I'm very happy using the Bryston 4B3.
Others have mentioned Classé. I tried a Classé CA-2300, and it was lovely, but the audible fan ruined it for me.
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Hard to go wrong with the current series of Bryston amps.
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Just built a purifi Eval-1 with the Hypex PS. I think it sounds pretty fabulous. Ultra quiet and plenty of power for my 1.7is (~250/8 and 400/4). I was using Folsom's 7397 in a dual mono config. It sounded really good but didn't have enough power for my listening habits (60/120wpc). I will use it elsewhere. For $1200. I would recommend the Purifi Eval 1. Not familiar with the VTV version of the amp except to say it uses the same PZ and amp boards but has a different buffer. You can purchase to VTV with a Hypex(?) buffer for ~$950. Not sure if that is the same as the Purifi or not.
I am using it with a Schiit Freya+. Very happy amp/pre for $2000.
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Krell FBP300 driving my Soundlab A3s. Previously had much pricier Lamm hybrid monos and when I A/Bed the Krell (because a friend was demoing the Krell) we were all shocked at how much better bass control the Krell had. After a few years with the FPB300, I'm happy.
Also a fan of the Pass amps, but they are pretty pricey. For those looking for bang/buck Coda and Odyssey are good options.
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Pass X250.5 driving Magneplanar Tympani IVa bass panels and replaced the mid\tweeter panels with Bohlender & Graebener RD75's.
I am looking for another X250.5 to biamp.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220986)
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With my Janszen Valentinas, I'm very happy using the Bryston 4B3.
Others have mentioned Classé. I tried a Classé CA-2300, and it was lovely, but the audible fan ruined it for me.
Magnepan and Bryston - a match made in heaven
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Krell FPB300 to drive my Soundlab A3s.
A big improvement over the Lamm monoblocks that I had beforehand.
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Pass design Aleph J
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Pass X250/350 series
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Not very sexy but I use a pair of Hafler XL-280's that were redesigned by J. Hillig at Musical Concepts. Another Hafler product that doesn't get much love is the 9505. It mates well with planars and electrostats, has true balanced outs and can be found for around $600 (pre-restoration). I know, old school stuff. I can vouch for the JC-1's for newer gear, great value as well.
-dieter
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Goldmund Job 225 with LRS. Made for each other.
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Well depends on Planars and other gear. Not a one size fit all deal.
charles
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I have been using March Audio P701 mono blocks with my 3.7’s, very nice grip on these demanding speakers.
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Currently, a Digital Amplifier Co. Megaschino. It started life as a DAC4800a, I sent it to Tommy for a transformer vibration issue. He replaced the transformer with a much larger one and some other audio alchemy and it came back 260wpc or better. I would love a large Pass-alas, funds are not there.
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Threshold/Pass Labs.
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pass/threshold/usher
hegel
plinius
belles
ayre
exposure (higher models)
naim (ditto)
coda
boulder
gryphon
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Ya missed Bryston.
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About 13 months ago, I said I was very happy using a Bryston 4B3 with my Janszen Valentina P8s. Shortly after, I received a pair of PuriFi monoblocks put together by Apollon, which I had bought as a birthday present to myself.
After listening to them for a while, I was even happier than before. So I have stuck with the PuriFi 1ET400A-based amps, as they suit my tastes better than anything else I've tried -- and at a considerably lower price.
@yardbird - are you still using your PuriFi-based amplification?
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Ya missed Bryston.
i have heard others say that the newest 3 series brystons sound real nice now
in the past (say 7-10 years ago) i have heard brystons with maggies and while they had the power to drive them, they did not sound as sweet as the ones on my list...
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Ran Quad ELS-63 and then ESL-989 with Quad 606 / 707 amps.
They were an improvement on the earlier Quad 405
Tried a number of other amps with less successful results (Realistic Receiver, Sansui Integrated, Revox A750 Integrated)
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AVA DVA 4/2 AMP with 1.7.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236123)
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I have just replaced my Quad 606 with a Sugden Sapphire class A power amp to drive my custom ER Audio full range electrostats.
It is chalk and cheese!
I am now hearing things in the music that I did not even know where there!
Everything is much more coherent.
So smooth and clear.
My blue Sugden was hand made in the UK.
Sugden produced the first class A amps in the world well over fifty years ago and they are still going strong.
They are so popular I had to join a 24 week waiting list!!
Very happy with the wait though.
Well worth it!!
I may well be the only person here using a Sugden!
Bye the way I think there are about twenty colours that you can choose from.
Here is the picture of the blue one.
Bruce
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236128)
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AVA DVA 4/2 AMP with 1.7.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236123)
Seems like a variation on the Quad / Peter Walker "current dumping" amp designs?
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Sugden produced the first class A amps in the world well over fifty years ago and they are still going strong.
Weren't the very first audio amplifiers ~100 years ago class A?
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Have had Bryston model 4's, 7's, BAT VK-500, VK-250, and Rogue tube monoblocks 150's and 180's that drove 1.6's, 1.7's, 3.5's and 3.6's very well with a nod to the BAT amps sounding the best.
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Sorry /mp left out the word transistor and a bit more!!!!!
Specifically worlds’ first production pure class A transistor amplifier.
Makes all the difference.
Sometimes brevity can be your enemy!
Here is the link for your further reading: https://www.sugdenaudio.com/a21-history
Thanks for pointing this out.
Bruce
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I think you are right about being the sole Sugden owner here.
I've heard the name but that's about it.
True to form, I just ordered another VTL tube amp and am waiting for that to show.
Also have two boxes coming from one of the Circle owners here. He owns a Buell Ulysses, how bad can he be?
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(http://sanderssoundsystems.com/images/stories/ampblackfrontangle.jpg)
http://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-amp
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Quoting texts in entirety:
I have just replaced my Quad 606 with a Sugden Sapphire class A power amp to drive my custom ER Audio full range electrostats.
It is chalk and cheese!
I am now hearing things in the music that I did not even know where there!
Everything is much more coherent.
So smooth and clear.
My blue Sugden was hand made in the UK.
Sugden produced the first class A amps in the world well over fifty years ago and they are still going strong.
They are so popular I had to join a 24 week waiting list!!
Very happy with the wait though.
Well worth it!!
I may well be the only person here using a Sugden!
Bye the way I think there are about twenty colours that you can choose from.
Here is the picture of the blue one.
Bruce
Sorry /mp left out the word transistor and a bit more!!!!!
Specifically worlds’ first production pure class A transistor amplifier.
Makes all the difference.
Sometimes brevity can be your enemy!
Here is the link for your further reading: https://www.sugdenaudio.com/a21-history
Thanks for pointing this out.
Bruce
That's an interesting way of looking at it. Some would say Bruce left out the word transistor, not the person quoting him. Just saying, er writing. No point in making a tempest in a teapot.
As always, YMMV,
/mp
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Sorry /mp!!
You have caught me out twice with brevity!!!!!!
Left out a comma this time.
Thanks for your sharp eyes!!
Bruce
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Magnepan and Bryston - a match made in heaven
I know of a dealer whose main lines are Audio Research, Vandersteen and Magnepan. One time I walked in to the shop and caught him driving the 3.6's with a Bryston stereo amp, I don't recall the model - it was over 20 years ago.
The sound was glorious!
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I know of a dealer whose main lines are Audio Research, Vandersteen and Magnepan. One time I walked in to the shop and caught him driving the 3.6's with a Bryston stereo amp, I don't recall the model - it was over 20 years ago.
The sound was glorious!
+1.
Demoed big Maggies + big Brystons in big room = big sound.
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I have Maggy 3.7’s, I have been using March Audio P701 mono blocks, they are Hypex 1200 class D, the grip on these large speakers is amazing! I just bought a Vincent K35 EL 34 based tube amp, rated at 35 watts a channel, this amp had no problem running the 3.7’s to a great level. I was surprised that a 35 watt tube amp would do so well with these. My room is not huge at 15’ X 19’.
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I'm running my .7s with Audio by Van Alstine FET Valve 400r. This hybrid amp let's me tube roll, and currently, Telelfunken 12AT7s are the best in my room. The .7s are installed with Magna Riser multi risers with the panels set at the highest level.
Not a bad combination; however, I would love to try other amps. Anyone have a suggestion?
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I have some Martin Logans where the best pairing so far has been McIntosh mc275s. I have some AVA DVA M225s coming for another system in the house and plan to try them on the MLs too just to see how they mate.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238760)
Bryston 4B³ Stereo
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I have some Martin Logans where the best pairing so far has been McIntosh mc275s. I have some AVA DVA M225s coming for another system in the house and plan to try them on the MLs too just to see how they mate.
I'm very interested in your opinion on how the AVA DVA M225s will sound with your Martin Logans. :D
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Perhaps slightly off topic...
My observation on amps and "difficult" speakers - ie: those with low impedances at some frequencies in the spectrum
With Quad ESL's (63 / 989) - which can be difficult but not overly so... a robust AVR (Onkyo 876 / Integra 70.4) with 140W/ch provided almost as good performance as the Quad 606 140W/ch amps... I thought the Quad amps were better... but would I be able to differentiate them in a blind test? - not sure.
Here is where I move slightly off topic.
Due to the dreaded WAF - I had to find a non planar, more compact speaker solution, and settled on Gallo Ref 3.2 as the most "planar sounding" speaker that met the requirements of WAF....
These speakers can be quite difficult to drive, with bass dropping to 3 ohm, and the tweeter dropping to 1.6ohm.
To sound decent - the amp has to be able to provide the relevant Voltage consistently across the entire frequency range...
140W @ 8ohm is around 95V ... but that same 95V into 1.6 ohm is 705W... and of course buckets of current.
Pretty much any amp can drive an 8 ohm speaker within its rating.
Few and far between are the amps that can maintain that performance when your load drops down below 2 ohm (and for some speakers below 1 ohm !!!)
1st requirement with low impedances.... is that the amp should not overheat, bust into flames and expire ... (some used to do that!)
2nd It should remain stable - depending on design and topology, some amps increase distortion substantially as they struggle down into the low impedances - sound gets nasty, and the nasties spread throughout the frequency range
3rd It should have sufficient power to provide the desired SPL continuous and peak, consistently throughout the frequency range.
Typically, that means 75db continuous with peaks of +20db or 105db SPL at the MLP
You can do various calculations to work out what that means with various amps - but lots of highly regarded amps don't do well under the "difficult speaker" conditions.
In my case - the best value solution has ended up being the Crown XLS series pro amps.
Capable / Rated for 1200W into 2ohm - they easily drive a difficult speaker cleanly. (and they are merely cruising while doing so!)
A 100W AVR - which sounds just fine with "normal" 8ohm speakers, sounded muddy, constrained, veiled into the Gallo speakers.
The big 140W AVR's sounded quite good, the Quad 606 sounded a little better... in this case consistently and noticeably so... but the Crown XLS was consistently better yet - I have experimented back and forth, swapping the options in and out over a number of years... and for these speakers, the Crown XLS remains king.
Could I find alternatives that would meet the requirements set by these speakers and my listening room etc... absolutely... but nowhere near the $250 I paid for a used pro XLS (!) - and they can still be found out there at around that price.
Keeping an eye on amps.... it seems that I would need to look at US$2500 + to match or better what I have at present... and whether it would actually provide an audible improvement is anyones guess.
I believe some panels (Soundlab?) drop down to 0.5 ohm - so the struggle for an appropriate amp is very real indeed!
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Almost two years later and I still would not change my mind. 100% would buy again. The pairing of this amplifier, the EAR 868 and the Magnepan 1.7 exceeds my expectations by a mile. Maybe in a few years I will think about changing something. But then again, probably not.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239912)
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