[mamba315]

So later this evening I'll be running a pair of double-BS22s.  We'll see what happens....

Sweet, let us know...

[Russell Dawkins]

I think the fun will start at 4 per side! Cruise by BB again!

I picture a ribbon set up to secure them horizontally, like those children's toys:

[soundbitten1]

Newegg has the sub for $79.99. I just picked one up at BB for that price under their price matching policy.

 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117402

The 4 item combo looks like a great deal too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1464018

[bummrush]

 Didnt say exactly but i quess you would see from my pics that laying the Pioneers flat on top of the Clements sound good . And you just gotta remembert the price.

[opnly bafld]

Newegg has the sub for $79.99. I just picked one up at BB for that price under their price matching policy.

 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117402

BB price matched a new model MkII for an old model?

[soundbitten1]

BB price matched a new model MkII for an old model?

Apparently

[Ericus Rex]

BB price matched a new model MkII for an old model?

For some odd reason the Mk I and II are still priced the same.

[krikor]

I was out this evening and swung by BB - I couldn't help myself! 

So later this evening I'll be running a pair of double-BS22s.  We'll see what happens....

Hey Vinnie, how's are Doubly Pioneers working out? All my talk and I missed the sale, but I'm sure it will be back before the holidays. 

[Vinnie R.]

All,

Ok - so I did test the double pioneers.  I have the top one placed on top of the bottom one, but upside down.

Right off the bat, I noticed a greater sense of bass... actually, it was being felt in my near field position! The sound is
louder and more dynamic.  Pretty surprising for two 4" drivers per side! 

However for all other aspects of the presentation, it was detrimental.  I lost the sweet top end.  It was tipped up a bit too much
, and the overall blending of the drive units was not nearly as good as just having the 4" driver and tweeter.  After an hour or so of
listening, I had to swap back to the single speakers.  I was initially excited by the better bottom end and ability to feel the sound
more, but no longer was enjoying the rest of the sound like I did with the stereo pair alone.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that there is not only an extra tweeter than probably is not needed, but also because
the spacing between the drivers is not optimal.  The two tweeters are probably too far apart.  And while I'm not a speaker design,
I'm guessing that the crossovers should be optimized for the extra driver(s) as the FR of the speakers will change with the extra
drivers.

So my guess is that going with the center channels (with the crossover board of the stereo pair installed, or modifying the crossover board
to match that of the stereo pair's board) would probably yield the best results.   There would only be one tweeter in this case, and the two
bass/midrange units equally separated away from the tweeter.  The cabinet volume of the center speaker is also larger.

That's about it for now.  I has the two speakers in parallel and driven my the Signature 57.  The Signature 57 has no problem with 2-ohm loads,
so it did not even get warm playing a fairly loud levels in my room.  It was a lot of fun, but I just can't live with the sound.

I hope this helps,

Vinnie

[jman66]

I'll chime in on my stacking experience as well, to provide another perspective.

I started with a single pair of SP-BS22-LR driven by an Onkyo A-9555. Source is streaming from a Logitech Touch
to a TADAC 2009. Speakers are on 24" stands. A Pioneer SW-8MK2 helps extend the bottom end.
Listening room is very small, 8 1/2 x 10, tight quarters.

First, after reading much on acoustic interference and comb filtering, I had doubts that this would work.
But, the interest pushed me into picking up another pair. If they didn't work for stacking then I figure I could use them
elsewhere.
I tried them stacked vertical, tweeter to tweeter and also horizonal, wired in parallel. Sound was so-so and certainly
not worth keeping in this configuration. I listened to the stacked speakers for a couple of days but the sound
did not improve. Chalking it up to acoustic interference, I decided to abandon.

Pondering some more, I decided to try one last stab. With the speakers vertically stacked, tweeter to tweeter, I took
out the parallel wiring and ran another pair of speaker cables to the Speaker B taps on the Onkyo. Beforehand, I had
both speakers running off the Speaker A taps, with the parallel wiring from the bottom speaker to the top one.
With the Onkyo set to speakers A+B, I heard a vastly improved sound from the stack. This time around, they retained
and improved upon the sonics that a single pair present.

The stack is now staying put and driving the 2nd pair of speakers from the other speaker taps on the integrated made
a world of difference.

Of course, YMMV 

[bummrush]

I've laid em flat on top of my Clements . And I just have to really remember thier limitations . For a small speaker they sound decent but when compared to the Clements and the fact that Clements is a good size speaker it's not a fair comparison, but the pioneers don't even come close to the clarity of clements

[xecluded]

Anyone here upgrade capacitors on these little gems - if you did, can you post what the value for the caps are and is it a worth while thing to do.  Thanks

[krikor]

However for all other aspects of the presentation, it was detrimental.  I lost the sweet top end.  It was tipped up a bit too much
, and the overall blending of the drive units was not nearly as good as just having the 4" driver and tweeter.  After an hour or so of
listening, I had to swap back to the single speakers.  I was initially excited by the better bottom end and ability to feel the sound
more, but no longer was enjoying the rest of the sound like I did with the stereo pair alone.

Thanks for the update... I'll probably give a pair a try when they go on sale again, but doubt I'll double up. Though I still wonder if stacking them horizontally would provide any difference since it will put the woofers closer together (of course a little more difficult with the curved cabinet).

Pondering some more, I decided to try one last stab. With the speakers vertically stacked, tweeter to tweeter, I took
out the parallel wiring and ran another pair of speaker cables to the Speaker B taps on the Onkyo. Beforehand, I had
both speakers running off the Speaker A taps, with the parallel wiring from the bottom speaker to the top one.
With the Onkyo set to speakers A+B, I heard a vastly improved sound from the stack. This time around, they retained
and improved upon the sonics that a single pair present.

Surprising it would make that much of a difference since I believe the Onkyo A/B speaker outlets are also wired in parallel... you've simply moved the connection point to inside the Onkyo. Of course it gives you a double speaker run so I guess that could be the contributing factor.

[jman66]

Surprising it would make that much of a difference since I believe the Onkyo A/B speaker outlets are also wired in parallel... you've simply moved the connection point to inside the Onkyo. Of course it gives you a double speaker run so I guess that could be the contributing factor.

I agree. The A/B binding posts should be paralleled internal to the Onkyo. I can't explain why but the difference for me is night and day. I could see if I screwed up the parallel connections by crossing up +/-, inducing cancellation and phase issues but that wasn't the case. Glad I gave it a 2nd chance because I'm very much enjoying the setup. I can always switch to A or B should I want to listen to a single pair.

[kylek]

I've laid em flat on top of my Clements . And I just have to really remember thier limitations . For a small speaker they sound decent but when compared to the Clements and the fact that Clements is a good size speaker it's not a fair comparison, but the pioneers don't even come close to the clarity of clements

Stereophile's testing indicated that the speakers should be placed with the tweeters at ear-level.  Perhaps this would increase the clarity somewhat.

[Russell Dawkins]

Stereophile's testing indicated that the speakers should be placed with the tweeters at ear-level.  Perhaps this would increase the clarity somewhat.

If you are referring to the fact that John Atkinson measures frequency response on the tweeter axis, I have always thought that this was a flaw in his procedure and provides slightly erroneous data. Speakers are not designed with this as reference axis, except for coaxial designs. The design reference is usually approximately halfway between the mid (or bass/mid in a two way) and the tweeter. Most manufacturers don't specify, though. Among domestic speakers, I know B&W to be an exception. I think J.A. should arbitrarily choose the halfway point if the manufacturer does not specify.

[kylek]

Not exactly:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker-measurements

[charmerci]

The speakers' crossovers.


"front"


 




"back"


 


Pretty impressive for a dirt cheap speaker.

[Russell Dawkins]

Not exactly:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker-measurements

I stand by what I said regarding JA's technique. I think it's flawed, and I guess it's time to raise the issue at Stereophile, which I will do when I have an hour to spare for handling the back-and-forth.
Look at the response curve for 5º below horizontal and then realize that with the relative increased distance from the tweeter and decreased distance from the woofer time alignment would be affected which would affect the step response in a positive fashion. JA is speaking somewhat loosely, I believe when he says "same height as listeners' ears". I think slightly higher might well be better, but then Alan Jones would know that and he probably wasn't asked - and I'd guess Pioneer wouldn't know or say in the owners manual.

Pragmatically, you could simply pick up the speaker and face it towards you, vary the vertical angle and listen.

[kylek]

I have no argument with your assertions.  Atkinson suggests 5 degrees above to 10 degrees below the tweeter axis would be optimum.  I was merely pointing out that placing the speakers on top of one's existing speaker setup, although convenient, would probably not be ideal.