[OzarkTom]

Wanted to let Audiocircle members know that I just got todays BestBuy flyer. And all Pioneer speakers are 30% off starting tomorrow(Sunday Aug.18-24).
Ryan

Available online for $90.99 and free shipping.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer+-+4%26%2334%3B+Bookshelf+Speakers+(Pair)/5086955.p?id=1218610014045&skuId=5086955#tab=overview

[Ericus Rex]

Has anyone heard the matching sub to these speakers?  It is also an Andrew Jones design.  Price is also right!  $202 for the complete sub/sat system at Best Buy!


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer+-+Subwoofer/5086873.p?id=1218610014537&skuId=5086873

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Subwoofers/SW-8MK2

[hyghwayman]

Clever and oh so stylish!

Thank you,

Also you asked about the matching sub, I haven't heard it myself but from what I've heard/read in other HT forums it's recommended to skip and put the $$ towards a better sub.

I used a Bic F12 for over a year with my 1st gen. Pio. speakers which while a bit on the boomy side was ok for HT use. In May I acquired a SVS SB13-Ultra sub and wow, my Pio speakers sound a 100x better than before with the Bic.

[dlparker]

Thank you,

Also you asked about the matching sub, I haven't heard it myself but from what I've heard/read in other HT forums it's recommended to skip and put the $$ towards a better sub.

I used a Bic F12 for over a year with my 1st gen. Pio. speakers which while a bit on the boomy side was ok for HT use. In May I acquired a SVS SB13-Ultra sub and wow, my Pio speakers sound a 100x better than before with the Bic.

I can also recommend the HSU STF series. I have the STF-2 and use it when I really want to crank the music and feel the 'live' (or as close as I can get to it in my digs without the police showing up) vibe, but with the 22s I don't really need the sub most of the time.

[hyghwayman]

with the 22s I don't really need the sub most of the time.

I couldn't /wouldn't want to go w/o a sub after having the SVS in the mix and those bs22"s are only rated down to 55 Hz 

[dlparker]

I couldn't /wouldn't want to go w/o a sub after having the SVS in the mix and those bs22"s are only rated down to 55 Hz 

I agree about the lack of the last octave or so, but my focus is mainly music. You don't get the full effect of the fundamental of the low E of a double bass and the feel of someone hitting you in the chest from tympani and kick drum, but I'm 99.9% of the way there with no sub.

If your focus is home theater and you want those ELF effects and can count on not getting evicted from your domicile, then I agree - it's lacking.

I do like my STF-2, though!

[madmaxmedia]

Yes, plant hangers is how I was able to get my speakers off the table and out of my grandsons reach.

Do hanging speakers in the air negatively impact sound quality? Or is good placement from the wall (for bass port) enough for this level (price) of speaker?

[Captainhemo]

WEll, I'd assume bass response  will  not be as  tight and clean as it would  be if the speakers were  coupled / anchored to a surface.  Probably a good  trade off  thogh, better to keep  those  away from inquisitive little fingers 

-jay

[dlparker]

Yes, plant hangers is how I was able to get my speakers off the table and out of my grandsons reach.

I plan to do the macrame/plant hanger thing myself in a few weeks. I'd done something similar years ago (30-40?) with what would today be called "satellite" speakers and an A/R turntable. That got all three (speakers, TT) off the floor and within my easy reach. The only concern I had at the time was what LF that might transmit to the TT, but I could never hear any. One thing I'll be doing is getting a subjective 'feel' for what it does to the bass response. After I do that and listen to it for a while I intend to replace the BS22s with my HSU HB-1s to again do a subjective comparison. I haven't hooked the HSUs back up since I got the Pioneers, and I still regard the HSUs as pretty good speakers.

[charmerci]

Do hanging speakers in the air negatively impact sound quality? Or is good placement from the wall (for bass port) enough for this level (price) of speaker?

For louder listening levels, I find that they sound better at least 2' away from the wall. (It's much less critical if you internally dampen/brace the speakers.)

[hyghwayman]

Do hanging speakers in the air negatively impact sound quality? Or is good placement from the wall (for bass port) enough for this level (price) of speaker?

IMO they sound better now up in the air than they did before when they were sitting on our marble end tables.

[Letitroll98]

IMO they sound better now up in the air than they did before when they were sitting on our marble end tables.

Yes they would, quite obviously.  The nearfield reflections from the table tops must have been horrendous. 

[belzo]

I would like to buy the 22's but I'm a little worried about my receiver. It's a Kenwood VR-507 (100 watts per channel 5.1) and is listed as only supporting 8 ohm speakers. Given that the Pioneer's are 6 ohm I've read up a lot online about running them from a 8 ohm receiver and I've read of success and failures. Can anyone here clear this up for me? I'm on a very limited budget and can't really afford to buy a new receiver to power them at the moment. Thanks!

[srb]

I'm powering my SP-BS22-LR with a Denon AVR-1603.  The Denon manual lists power ratings at both 8 ohms and 6 ohms, however the rear panel says "8 - 16 ohms".

They were designed as an inexpensive speaker to be used with most anything, they're just a little low on sensitivity.  A friend drives them with an Insignia NS-R2001 receiver (about as low on the receiver totem pole as you can go) and it doesn't overheat.

Neither of us are blasting them, but I think you'll be fine.

Steve

[hyghwayman]

I would like to buy the 22's but I'm a little worried about my receiver. It's a Kenwood VR-507 (100 watts per channel 5.1) and is listed as only supporting 8 ohm speakers. Given that the Pioneer's are 6 ohm I've read up a lot online about running them from a 8 ohm receiver and I've read of success and failures. Can anyone here clear this up for me? I'm on a very limited budget and can't really afford to buy a new receiver to power them at the moment. Thanks!

The specs for the pioneers are good and really don't go below 6 ohm where other speaker may be rated at 8 ohm but often dip well below 6 ohm when driven hard. You should be fine

[RickB]

Well, I joined the BS22 club today...went to Best Buy and walked out with a box of speakers and change from my hundred...

I sold my Martin Logan Aerius-i's back at the beginning of July because a friend heard them and had to have them...so, I made up a package along with a new Jolida 501RC amp, Gram Slee phono preamp, my Denon DP45F w/ADC XLM cart, a Rotel RCD-02CD player and assorted VanDenHul, Cardas, etc., cables....I cleared the exact same that I paid for the Aerius-i bi-wires in '97, so I felt good about the sale...when it was all hooked up at her house, in her music room where the sweet spot was sitting at the piano bench, and I started playing it for her she started crying....I though OhOh, she's spent this money and she's unhappy...but, no, it was quite the opposite, she loved it!

I absolutely love to set up systems for folks and have that kind of reaction.

I had almost that strong of a reaction today when I finally set up the little Pioneers!  I no longer missed the ML's, plus the bass on these little things put to shame that which my Boston Acoustics A100MkII's with their 10" woofer are capable of!

I have yet to hook any subs up to the system and as I sit at the dining room table and they are playing at a low level, they don't have the same presence here as the electrostats, or my Maggie MG-IIa's, or possibly the Bostons, but what is there is clean, clear, articulate and very worthwhile.  They do need a bass augmentation, especially at low levels, to bring about a more enjoyable sound here in the adjoining room...but, as I sit here about 15 or 16 feet away from the left speaker and look at it's diminutive stature, I am just in awe, and this is after going out this evening and hearing live music and a demonstration of the B&W Nautilus system...gimme YG's any day!

The Pioneers are even good enough to clearly let me know the differences between the Cardas Cross speaker cables and the Stereovox Studio HD's....

Up stream: Sure 50WPC TDA 7492 amp w/19V power supply, http://tinyurl.com/myfehpa, Audible Illusions Modulus 3A preamp, Micromega MyDac, Compaq laptop used as music server with Media Monkey and USB out to the MyDac....

I can't wait to let them run in a little more and listen to vinyl tomorrow with the LP-12 and BenzH20....or this winter when the outside temps cool and I can run tube amps again....

Thanks to all the Guinea Pigs that bought these speakers and found out that they didn't suck.

.

[charmerci]

Rick,

I would definitely recommend listening to them with a sub. Makes an overall difference.

They're also much better internally braced- or as I did, lined them with non-drying clay. (Page 10 of this thread. Only one other person has done this that I know of and he noticed and liked the difference.)

[Captainhemo]

Rick
Loved yor story about how happy buying your old system made your friend, great stuff   
Love hearing little stories like that

Glad you're enjoying the new Pioneer's and like you  say,  after you get  some hours on them I'm sure they'll sound even better

-jay

[belzo]

Thanks for easing my worries a bit about running these via a 8ohm rated early 2000's receiver.  I'm really nervous still just because I don't want to damage anything but I think I'm going to bite the bullet and give it a shot. Hopefully all goes well

[RickB]

Rick,

I would definitely recommend listening to them with a sub. Makes an overall difference.

They're also much better internally braced- or as I did, lined them with non-drying clay. (Page 10 of this thread. Only one other person has done this that I know of and he noticed and liked the difference.)

Don't worry, there will be mods!

Cardas internal wiring along with replacing those crappy binding posts with some also from Cardas (I get the Cardas supplies at dealer cost so why not?) will be the first steps...the original posts will not let the spades on my Cardas Cross speaker cables seat properly and do not let the banana plugs of the Stereovox really penetrate enough to give what I feel is a good coupling between the plugs and the posts....and, I hate knurled post nuts, like the hex heads much better.

I'll have to do those first before thinking about doing any cabinet mods...I worry more about changing the tuning of the cabs by changing the interior volume than having the cabinets sing a little....

One of the things I have done for cabinet damping in the past is to get the hard vinyl flooring tiles at Home Depot or Lowes (usually less than a dollar for 12" x 12" squares) and affix these to the interior cabinet walls....I use a heat gun to soften the vinyl for curved surfaces and use rubber cement only on  one of the mating surfaces (i.e. the tile or the cabinet wall) to test the effectiveness of the damping...if all is well and sounds better the tiles are fairly easily removed, the rubber glue also cleans off easily, and then reattached permanently with contact cement.

Right now my BS22's are mounted on 24" Atacama stands filled with sand...the "interface" between the speakers and the stands is double stick masking tape, it really sticks well and helps prevent the little buggers from getting knocked out of position, it will also release when I want it to without damage to the finish of the speakers, and with a large coverage of the bottom of the speaker, damps the bottom of the speaker by coupling it tightly to the steel upper panel of the stand...I used to use a blue tack type of stuff but I feel like the "harder" contact of the thin double sided tape couples the stand and the speaker more effectively....the stands are spiked through the carpet...

Today I plan on hooking up the DIY Shiva sub along with one Dahlquist DQ-1W, both in the front corners of the room which is the only place that I can put them, and see what subs add to the equation...

TTFN