...Well, all this hasn't stopped a great group of people we are proud to call our customers from taking the chance on a no-name brand, and guess what? They ALL LOVE IT! They also love the fact that their money isn't going toward funds for trade shows and advertising. Their money is buying hardware, and lots of it. We are very proud of this. Thank you for reading this.
Please post a picture of the inside of your product, so we can see that it's more than just another repackaged Ice amp.
Based on what I see on your website, if I wanted a high power Class D amp, I'd pay the extra $1200. to get a Spectron MIII Signature MK.2. 8)
A few quick notes, then back to a schematic I'm working on...
The amp jhm731 shows is open loop. Two of my patents are on open loop (groundbreaking at the time, 1999), and my design for that (processing done originally in an FPGA) eventually became the property of ST Microsystems. Open loop is just not capable of the kind of performance we are talking about with the DAC4800A and Cherry amps. Open loop is OK for 100W and lower A/V Receiver type products, but not a 1000W+ high end amp.
Regarding NuForce, I heard it's actually a decent amp, but the specs aren't as good as DAC4800A or Cherry. Nuforce's ref9-v2 (their top of the line unit?) puts out less than half the output power of DAC4800A, higher THD+N (0.03% versus our <0.009%), and much lower SNR (by more than 12 db!). Plus, you have the same old thing about paying for trade shows and advertising.
Regarding price, although the list price for the DAC4800A is $3600 and the Cherry is $6000, we frequently discount them to our newsletter subscribers (nearly half price), and we also offer a demo unit here and there. The price on Amazon for the DAC4800A refurb unit is $2799, and that's upgraded to new modules and fully tested! Very clean. Very nice.
Our amps are built with OUR OWN TECHNOLOGY, not some off-the-shelf chip set or module. We build in the USA as well in case that matters to you.
More later...
what a waste of time
Are you familiar with the UCD design from Bruno Putskey (my apologies in advance for mis-spelling Bruno's name)???? I understand it is a simple, elegant solution with excellent specs and exceptional sound....
The amp in the picture is rated at 150watts at 8ohms and 300watts at 4ohms, other versions from this manufacture have higher ratings.
From pictures of you amps, I see nothing in parts or build quality to justify your asking or half off pricing.
Please post a picture of the inside of your product, so we can see that it's more than just another repackaged Ice amp.
Based on what I see on your website, if I wanted a high power Class D amp, I'd pay the extra $1200. to get a Spectron MIII Signature MK.2. 8)
Please post a picture of the inside of your product, so we can see that it's more than just another repackaged Ice amp.
Based on what I see on your website, if I wanted a high power Class D amp, I'd pay the extra $1200. to get a Spectron MIII Signature MK.2. 8)
The Spectron unit has pretty respectable specs, but THD is about 5x the DAC amps. Also, I concluded that the outputs are bridged (the "black" binding post is not GND), so the two channels can't be bridged. This means twice the output filter components --- the audio goes through more before getting to the speaker. FYI, a DAC4800A can be bridged for 1000W into 8 ohms (killer amp for a passive sub).
I consulted for Harris Semiconductor back in the mid 90s. They went back to being Intersil shortly after that. At the time they were marketing their MOSFET drivers to Class-D amplifier makers. Spectron came out with a 500W x 2 amp a few years later (correct me on the time line if I'm wrong). It used the old fashioned triangle wave and comparator type modulation. Based on the text that Spectron has on their site, it looks like they still use this technique. We built amps like that in the 1980s and early 1990s (before DAC was officially founded) but abandoned the technique for more advanced methods. I'm not saying that the old way can't be done well, however, and the specs prove that it can.
The same comment I had earlier about paying for trade shows and advertising applies to any mass market amp. We prefer not to call our products "mass market" --- they are specialty products.
Because i've listened to quite a few and despite all the hype that went with them,was quite disappointing,thats all.
http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/index_htm.html (http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/index_htm.html)
Here is a pic of a 2K H20 100x2 based on a modified B&O module. I would like to hear yours of course but ones with huge PS and dual transformers are hard to pass up. Also I raised a brow a bit on the suggestion of a 6K amp on a sub :duh:
:D these digie amps sure are comin' at us from all sides now....they say it's in the name of dynamics which is also headroom, or stand-by power....3500w for 0.5 second ready for music peaks.would a conventional amp with 600 or 1kw wpc also do this ?? :scratch: :D
.....and there's one on Ebay for $1499...
Sorry, I was a little strong in my tone. Here's something I wrote recently to an audio magazine...
We have relied on word of mouth (or word-of-web) to spread the news of our products. Many of our competitors are well established companies that have come out with similar products (functionally) despite a serious lack of design experience in this very difficult field. I have been designing digital amps (and some analog ones too) for 20 years, and believe me when I say that there is no substitute for experience. However, these competitors put the bulk of their sales revenue into elaborate marketing campaigns, not into their hardware or technology development. As a result, there are a bunch of underwhelming digital amps on the market, giving a bad name to an amplifier technology that can yield the ultimate in audio when done just right. We put the cash into our products and treat our customers like gold, but the crowded market sometimes buries us in the noise.
Thanks very much for your kind reply.
Sorry, I was a little strong in my tone. Here's something I wrote recently to an audio magazine...
We have relied on word of mouth (or word-of-web) to spread the news of our products. Many of our competitors are well established companies that have come out with similar products (functionally) despite a serious lack of design experience in this very difficult field. I have been designing digital amps (and some analog ones too) for 20 years, and believe me when I say that there is no substitute for experience. However, these competitors put the bulk of their sales revenue into elaborate marketing campaigns, not into their hardware or technology development. As a result, there are a bunch of underwhelming digital amps on the market, giving a bad name to an amplifier technology that can yield the ultimate in audio when done just right. We put the cash into our products and treat our customers like gold, but the crowded market sometimes buries us in the noise.
Thanks very much for your kind reply.
If you have been designing amps for that long (and I have no reason to think otherwise), then you should accurately state that they are Class D and not digital. They are, in fact, analog. Ask our mutual friend Bruno if you don't believe me.
BTW......we don't go to trade shows either. Might be all that we agree on. I have worked on amps without feedback after the filter that have peaking problems. I prefer amps with feedback after the filter. (Ask Bruno why!)
Best wishes on your product line.
Pat
Dennis,
Do you have an audio company or a company of some other type? Sounds like you know a little about business...
Best Regards,
AmpDesigner333 / www.DigitalAmp.com
hello
you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby. if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously. come up with a price that works for you and stick with it. any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.
Yeah.. 1500 for a cherry...
Or maybe have a Tour amongst the audiophiles and let us be the judge. and jury.
:)
Id check em out.
Mike
hello
you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby. if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously. come up with a price that works for you and stick with it. any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.
I agree . what is the r e a l price? do you get sized up ? my buddy told me his was 1500 but why is it 3600 on the web site and 2700 (?) on amazon and what the hell is it doing on amazon . nobody buys serious gear there!!!!!! why not audiogon
still the product is good like I said before. just being devils advocate :)
My bad - S. Whitehall (if that really is your true location brewhaaa)Yeah that sounds like a good opportunity for some people to make opinions, filtering said power of word of mouth to the throngs of said AC folk thereby contributing the true nature of said Class D amps, there in fact acceleroeating purchases. <<--- I made that word up myself Yeah!!!! Im smott Im smott.
is only 45 min from my house.
-Mike
My bad - S. Whitehall (if that really is your true location brewhaaa)
is only 45 min from my house.
-Mike
My bad - S. Whitehall (if that really is your true location brewhaaa)
is only 45 min from my house.
-Mike
Mr. 333,
PM and invitation sent!
-Mike
Tommy pointed me to this thread and asked for comments. I'm not familiar with the particulars of his design, but I wanted to comment on the point about sound vs specs. It's true that there are quite a few amps that really sound nice (not necessarily accurate but certainly nice) in spite of less than stellar numbers. However, "nice sound" aside, what I can say with absolute certainty is that I've never heard a truly accurate and neutral amp that didn't have the numbers to match.
The "good-numbers bad-sound amp" is a myth that's been with us since the 80's when some class AB amps (typically Japanese with lots of lights on a black anodized front) were marketed with spectacular numbers - or so one was led to believe. Invariably it turned out that either the promised performance was only attained at 1kHz/1W or not at all. Nowadays we would describe this as "making misleading claims". When properly tested these amplifiers performed abysmally and indeed sounded the part. Those few amps that truly delivered on their promised performance still sound good by today's standards.
Simply put, the widely held belief that performance and sound are completely disjoint is a result of irresponsible salesmanship, no more no less. The relationship between numbers and sound may not be 1:1, the correlation is much stronger than is generally accepted.
We're seeing something of a rerun of this story in class D. Like Tommy I'm often confronted by people tut-tutting (invariably before trying out my stuff, never afterwards) based on previous experiences with other products. Indeed, many class D amps haven't exactly blazed a trail for the technology. But here too, those products that disappoint in the listening room do likewise on the lab bench. Again the 1kHz/1W figure may look good for many amps but it's the high power / high frequency numbers that show what an amp is made of. Output impedance at 20kHz is another neglected item. Everyone can get super duper "damping factor" at 50Hz. So what? Can they do it at the other end of the spectrum too? So what I want to say is: if you've heard a class D amp with good specs on all counts and you're still not happy - I won't argue. But if you haven't: do take the time to try one out that does measure well. Although I haven't heard or measured Tommy's amps yet, the published numbers (graphs would be appreciated!) make them worthy of anyone's attention.
BTW, I'm aware that there are also some who seem to think that class D is inherently better sounding than other technologies. I'm not one of them. I don't believe class D is either inherently superior or inferior to other technologies. The advantages of class D are all of a practical nature. Good sound can be had from any technology (not always equally easily though), the only thing you definitely can't get from other kinds of amplifiers is a lot of power with hardly any wasted energy. I know several audiophiles consciously moving towards class D simply for environmental reasons, but of course they expect their new amp to sound at least as good as the one it's replacing. This is what good class D is about, not about some "novel magic sound experience" because that's bull. If it sounds that radically different from a really good traditional amp, there's something wrong. The time of making great strides in amplifier sound is over. The time of making great amps, luckily, is not.
While I'm at it I might share my experience about price. I've tried holding my own as a one man audio company in the past and I'm still part of a 4-man endeavour called Grimm Audio. From that experience I can tell you it's a frustrating fact of life that when you're on the wrong side of the economy of scale, making stuff really gets expensive. In the beginning one is often tempted to charge too little but after a while you really find the numbers don't add up if you try to stay in the same ball park with bigger joints. So your prices have to go up. But with a higher price tag customers expect higher quality (rightly so!). And that makes it even more expensive etc. The only stable solution to this equation is at a quality level (sound, build, "exclusivity" etc) that only very few people demand (that's you folks) so that larger companies no longer have a scale advantage and instead are at a disadvantage due to greater overhead. That's where the equation tilts. Add the current price hike in commodities like copper, a weak USD and volatility of the market in general and you get a price increase that would otherwise seem, on the face of it, difficult to explain.
Apologies for excessive verbosity. I am like that.
Cheers,
Bruno (who's now leaving on vacation so unlikely to check back on this thread for the next week)
Do you have any graphs of your amp's performance? THD vs freq, THD vs output power, etc?
I'm the founder of Digital Amplifier Company (1996). On our web site, we explain that we don't go to trade shows or pay for standard print or web advertising. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Please let us know if you have heard one of our amps or if you have visited our web site (www.DigitalAmp.com).
I have found that improving this spec in any amp design involves making other sacrifices(...)In the past I used to believe that achieving good modulator linearity along with global feedback was impossible. I've had to change my mind because I figured a way how to do it. Two ways actually. Works like a charm, at least if one considers four densely printed pages of formulae "a charm".
How did you come up with a name for an amplifier company with the unfortunate acronym of "DAC"?
Interesting looking products AmpDesigner333...
Please adjust your signature to meet the guidelines put forward for industry participants here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41871.0
Thanks in advance and have a great rest of your weekend!
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)
Best wishes!
Pat
Interesting looking products AmpDesigner333...
Please adjust your signature to meet the guidelines put forward for industry participants here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41871.0
Thanks in advance and have a great rest of your weekend!
Just testing it. OK now? Thanks for your post.
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)
Best wishes!
Pat
hello
you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby. if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously. come up with a price that works for you and stick with it. any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.
I agree . what is the r e a l price? do you get sized up ? my buddy told me his was 1500 but why is it 3600 on the web site and 2700 (?) on amazon and what the hell is it doing on amazon . nobody buys serious gear there!!!!!! why not audiogon
still the product is good like I said before. just being devils advocate :)
Because i've listened to quite a few and despite all the hype that went with them,was quite disappointing,thats all.
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.Has this happened to you?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)
Best wishes!
Pat
hello
you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby. if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously. come up with a price that works for you and stick with it. any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.
I agree . what is the r e a l price? do you get sized up ? my buddy told me his was 1500 but why is it 3600 on the web site and 2700 (?) on amazon and what the hell is it doing on amazon . nobody buys serious gear there!!!!!! why not audiogon
still the product is good like I said before. just being devils advocate :)
didn't answer me about audiogon....... not really
sorry about the price comment ya gotta do wht ya gottado
c'ya
About Audiogon, we're looking into it. I was trying to get feedback on them (no pun intended). Have you ever bought anything from them? How about Ebay (audio stuff only)?
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.Has this happened to you?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)
Best wishes!
Pat
No, but there are some folks there that spread false information. Not intentionally; they just think that they know more than they really do. Most are harmless, just annoying.
Audiogon............I rarely go there any longer. The mods have a way of clipping my posts, in reply to the same sort of person alluded to above. Why they let the inmates say anything that has no foundation in fact, or so severely taken out of context that is in no longer true, is beyond me. More puzzling when they don't let you set the record straight. But, things may have improved there. Not curious enough to try again.
(Not sure the forum rules allow such disclosure. If not, I will edit it out.)
Pat
About Audiogon, we're looking into it. I was trying to get feedback on them (no pun intended). Have you ever bought anything from them? How about Ebay (audio stuff only)?
Don't forget:
http://www.hifihock.com (http://www.hifihock.com)
http://www.audiosxell.com (http://www.audiosxell.com)
Both Dragan (HiFiHock) and Tom (AudioXsell) are good guys and occasionally post here.
peace,
Lee
About Audiogon, we're looking into it. I was trying to get feedback on them (no pun intended). Have you ever bought anything from them? How about Ebay (audio stuff only)?
Don't forget:
http://www.hifihock.com (http://www.hifihock.com)
http://www.audiosxell.com (http://www.audiosxell.com)
Both Dragan (HiFiHock) and Tom (AudioXsell) are good guys and occasionally post here.
peace,
Lee
Lee,
Thanks for the post. I'll check them out. We have to be selective due to limited stock. We typically build, sell, build, sell, like that... It takes quite a few hours to build and test each unit by hand. That's what we're all about. This isn't stuff produced by the thosands of units in some South East Asian sweat shop...
It would be good to attend a rave or get an amp into the hands of some of the trusted members here for a listen. If its good, Im sure there will be interest
Thats true, the resale value would be zero. Who is going to buy something that they never heard of without a reputation? No one. Most of the products on AC have been proven in the field and they are highly reguarded in their field of expertise. They are small manufacturers (most) but you could turn around something based on word of mouth.
Mike
We do have a reputation (from actual customers), although it is not confirmed yet by thousands of users, but then again this was the same case for companies like Krell when they got their start!
why dont you send an amp to an AC member to then send around to others. I believe other companies have tried this "product tour" approach.
AmpDesigner333 ....QuoteWe do have a reputation (from actual customers), although it is not confirmed yet by thousands of users, but then again this was the same case for companies like Krell when they got their start!
So....a question...about how many of your amps have you sold ? Thanks... :thumb:
The only reason I asked is because I read a lot of sites....and your company has not been mentioned around in discussions....except now on AC.AmpDesigner333 ....QuoteWe do have a reputation (from actual customers), although it is not confirmed yet by thousands of users, but then again this was the same case for companies like Krell when they got their start!
So....a question...about how many of your amps have you sold ? Thanks... :thumb:
Wow! I was wondering when someone would finally ask this! We hold that information private, but let me say that it is significant. The Cherry is pretty new, but the DAC4800A has been selling for quite some time (more than a year). We are building them as fast as we can. Thanks for your post.
why dont you send an amp to an AC member to then send around to others. I believe other companies have tried this "product tour" approach.
We are taking our time with this. When presented with the option of selling a unit to a trusting new customer or giving one away for a "potential review" we choose the customer. We owe everything to our customers and never forget that. Subscribe to our newsletter if you are interested in special deals:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm
We are considering a special for AC participants. If you are interested, please send a PM.
Thanks.
When presented with the option of selling a unit to a trusting new customer or giving one away for a "potential review" we choose the customer.
QuoteWhen presented with the option of selling a unit to a trusting new customer or giving one away for a "potential review" we choose the customer.
Well yea. lonewolf is right, we all read a lot of forums and hardly a blurb. Even audioreview that is so easy to seed comes up nill. I was a bit concerned about the "thousands" of user comments earlier in light of the lack of user reviews. I do wish you well and obviously I keep an eye on this intriguing product and thread but honestly it would be very hard to pull the trigger.
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...
Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002
Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts! More later...
Attending a Rave...or a product tour here on AC would get you some reviews...so people might have an idea how your product performs.
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...
Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002
Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts! More later...
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...
Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002
Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts! More later...
...and you're serious about $90 for shipping ?
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...
Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002
Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts! More later...
and if it doesn't sell? like i said, could audiogon have been better choice ?
Most importantly for me when doing business with any company, do you have a trial period or return policy? You don't seem to have one as far as I can tell from your auction or website.
Are there any terms to the 30 day return policy? Any re-stocking fees or fees of any kind associated, or is it a %100 money back return policy?
...see my previous post...FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...
Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002
Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts! More later...
...and you're serious about $90 for shipping ?
Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002
The price will go up after that.
About half an hour left...
Shipping cost will be refunded to AC members!
Also, if you have any comments on the Audiogon (Cherry) listing, please post them to this thread.
Thanks.
just left a private message for you
The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990
just left a private message for you
I did NOT receive a PM from you. Are you sure you sent it correctly? Please try again, and thanks for your post.
just left a private message for you
I did NOT receive a PM from you. Are you sure you sent it correctly? Please try again, and thanks for your post.
just sent one, pls check
The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990
told you so !!!!!!!!
i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&
the listing is nice but no mention of the review above w h y n o t ???? its even on the same web site
The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990
told you so !!!!!!!!
i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&
the listing is nice but no mention of the review above w h y n o t ???? its even on the same web site
However, people have a tendency to like whatever they bought, so watch out for reviews that have no comparisons to anything else.
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808
Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm
Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com). Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com. There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!! Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).
Anyway, check it out ASAP!
Just over one day left on the auction!
Thanks.
Have a great weekend...
Yeah, not that premium parts are all that big of deal sometimes in terms of just sonics. I think of it more in terms of noise, robustness, reliability, function, and overall value in terms of living with the component over the long haul. That's exactly why I use Cardas single knob binding posts (CPBP) in all my DIY gear. Expensive but functionally great for my needs. Even my Odyssey amps, at less than 1/3 the price, and known for incredibly good value, have chunky WBT's.
I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808
Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm
Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com). Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com. There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!! Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).
Anyway, check it out ASAP!
Just over one day left on the auction!
Thanks.
Have a great weekend...
I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!
:D you do know you have the only red component out there,i would consider a new face plate for starters,even the name kinda sucks.maybe I'm too old,or old fashioned.too radical for me just looking at her.... :D please note i scratched this down before my first cup of Jo.no harm intended,just my early-in-the-day comments :lol:
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808
Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm
Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com). Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com. There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!! Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).
Anyway, check it out ASAP!
Just over one day left on the auction!
Thanks.
Have a great weekend...
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808
Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm
Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com). Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com. There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!! Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).
Anyway, check it out ASAP!
Just over one day left on the auction!
Thanks.
Have a great weekend...
i see the cherry unit didn't sell on audiogon or did it???????
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp. Less than half price. Here's the link:This amp doesn't look all that new, mark/smudges, et.al. on the faceplate, maybe its just a bad picture...
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A
We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...
Thanks for taking a look.
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp. Less than half price. Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A
We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...
Thanks for taking a look.
im on a mailing list from them guess you arent . surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp. Less than half price. Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A
We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...
Thanks for taking a look.
Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.
Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.
Mike
im on a mailing list from them guess you arent . surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp. Less than half price. Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A
We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...
Thanks for taking a look.
Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.
Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.
Mike
Nope. It just looks like you wrote it. Maybe put it in quotes?im on a mailing list from them guess you arent . surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp. Less than half price. Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A
We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...
Thanks for taking a look.
Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.
Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.
Mike
Nope. It just looks like you wrote it. Maybe put it in quotes?im on a mailing list from them guess you arent . surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp. Less than half price. Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A
We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...
Thanks for taking a look.
Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.
Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.
Mike
Mike
What logic was that exactly? Why don't you respond in that thread with your irrefutable and well-crafted thoughts?
I especially look forward to your taking on Occam with your d i g i t a l comments. Reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoons - "He don't know me very well, do he?"
Sorry for the OT, I do like the Tour idea!
What logic was that exactly? Why don't you respond in that thread with your irrefutable and well-crafted thoughts?
I especially look forward to your taking on Occam with your d i g i t a l comments. Reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoons - "He don't know me very well, do he?"
Sorry for the OT, I do like the Tour idea!
look at the other thread about the isolation platforms i posted a new one there a few minutes ago with plenty of logic youll see tired of explaining it over and over people comment about stupid stuff like sentence structure and punctuation not audio or facts to save you the time if a cd player is designed properly it should not need a platform see logic
Hi Tom,
How does CLDjam™ relate to the DAC4800A and Cherry amps? What can you elaborate on regarding this? Thanks.
-jim
The reason I was attracted to this forum was access to 'boutique' equipment that gives great performance and value, and the DAC amps may or may not fit very well into this categories. The sure fire way of getting AC members interested is to get unit/units in the hands of members, either through get to togethers or tours - if the amps are good then sales will follow very quickly! At the moment all that's being generated are posts going nowhere, I would like to see posts based on feedback reviews.
I'm not trying to be negative, on the contrary - if the product is good then I would like to know and, as I stated, sales will follow.
Hope that explains CLDjam for you.
Hope that explains CLDjam for you.
Hate to step on your toes, but I think his answer is going to be "NO!" If you make it any more detailed, the average reader may tune out. Besides, some of your competitors may be reading. (There is one instance on one of the DIY forums where a Class D "designer" appeared as both the designer and a satisfied customer. Obviously under different names. One waxed poetically about great it sounded; the other trolled for design help from more experienced forum members.)
I wish you luck, because I think you are going to need it. That is about all the advice that I can give you at this point. You're on your own form here on out.
I know.............shut up and get back to working on SB3 mods. (I am, just not fast enough.)
Pat
Hope that explains CLDjam for you.
Can anyone out there suggest one??? Thank you!
I am one of those that have had general unease with the sound of switching amps in mid/high application. I haven't tried the expensive ones which makes my experience incomplete. I understand that implementation is more important in practice then theoretical tendencies of a topology. I am willing to try your amp if you will do a tour. I have mega watt tube monoblocks, medium power EL34 amp, 300B SET, Hypex, ICE and Class A SS amp to compare yours to. I love the efficiency and damping power of Class D amps. I just haven't been convinced yet that it is good in mid/high only application as I triamp my system.
I am one of those that have had general unease with the sound of switching amps in mid/high application. I haven't tried the expensive ones which makes my experience incomplete. I understand that implementation is more important in practice then theoretical tendencies of a topology. I love the efficiency and damping power of Class D amps.
The reason I was attracted to this forum was access to 'boutique' equipment that gives great performance and value, and the DAC amps may or may not fit very well into this categories. The sure fire way of getting AC members interested is to get unit/units in the hands of members, either through get to togethers or tours - if the amps are good then sales will follow very quickly! At the moment all that's being generated are posts going nowhere, I would like to see posts based on feedback reviews.
I'm not trying to be negative, on the contrary - if the product is good then I would like to know and, as I stated, sales will follow.
Yes! That's exactly what we're trying to do, but this will take some time. We are planning to attend a "rave" in October, and we are also offering demos to AC members on a limited basis. DAC is a bootstrap operation, so units are built as they are sold. We would have more units on hand if we had a pile of cash to fund higher volume production, but this is not currently the case (we hope someday it will be!). We also offer deals to our newsletter subscribers (see http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm) as units become available.
We AVOID a few things (mentioned in previous posts) so we can offer the best value possible. We don't sell through dealers --- they take pretty high margins. We don't attend trade shows --- these are very expensive. We don't pay for advertising --- this is a huge expense for a small company. We feel the benefits of skipping these three major expenses is very beneficial to our customers. Our products are special; not the same old thing you see in your friends listening rooms. We also had a massive development effort over the years to create these products, and we are stretching that expense well into the future.
So, if you're looking for customer reviews, look here:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC_REVIEWS.htm
... and there's one on Audiogon for Cherry:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&
... and there's one on Audiogon for DAC4800A:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1179282474&read&3&4&
...and for both DAC4800A and Cherry here (Amazon, all 5-stars!):
http://www.truedigitalamp.com/
We have some reviews that have not been added to our web site yet. Life's busy, you know.
Well, thanks so much for your kind post!
interesting topicmaybe something you want to comment on..................
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50955.msg523750;topicseen#new
on another subject the amp you had on ebay didnt sell you are barking up the wrong tree on ebay and amazon yoshould try again on audiogon and get reviews by people on ac see my other ideas about that a few pages back how about getting buyers to post here???????????????? maybe you need a course in sales and marketing because it looks like you are not trying to hard to sell or just going to the wrong places have you thought of asking krell or bryston or somebody like that to put their name on your product or your guts in theirs??????????
I commented on another thread about speaker wires, and thought you all might like to see it, plus some additional comments:nice i just got don arguing about isolation platforms for cd players this is a similar topic !!!!!! but, im not arrogant enough to say i never fell for such stuff later.....................
It comes down to resistance and inductance. If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key. By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs. I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life. I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system. This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.
Speaker wires are a special subject to me. Chuck, an old friend, who had Dunleavy speakers and Krell amps told me how he just bought new speakers cables for something like $2500. I did an A/B test with him and concluded that he wasted his money. I didn't want to tell him that since I knew it would just break his heart. This was many years ago, and now I wish I would have spoke my mind at the time.
Who is Don (ha ha, check your post)? The topics of speaker cables and isolation platforms are very different. Thanks for your post.I commented on another thread about speaker wires, and thought you all might like to see it, plus some additional comments:nice i just got don arguing about isolation platforms for cd players this is a similar topic !!!!!! but, im not arrogant enough to say i never fell for such stuff later.....................
It comes down to resistance and inductance. If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key. By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs. I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life. I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system. This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.
Speaker wires are a special subject to me. Chuck, an old friend, who had Dunleavy speakers and Krell amps told me how he just bought new speakers cables for something like $2500. I did an A/B test with him and concluded that he wasted his money. I didn't want to tell him that since I knew it would just break his heart. This was many years ago, and now I wish I would have spoke my mind at the time.
Remember my comments on feedback around for the output filter (or not)?
Well, this became the focus of a thread on Audio Circle!
Check this post and my reply:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58953.msg524187;topicseen#new
The brands mentioned:
Tripath, Panasonic, Hypex, ICE, Spectron, and Nuforce
If you've heard the DAC4800A or Cherry against these amps, please comment on this thread.
Thanks!
I think it would be useful to publish scope photos of the output waveforms of the DAC amplifiers, as I suggested in another thread.
I have seen some truly bizarre waveforms from switching amps, all supersonic but all capable of folding down into the audio range.
Using the older Audio Precision measurement gear one has the option of switching on 40kHz and 80kHz filters. Even with the lower filter engaged some poor behavior was noticed from a very well regarded Class D amp.
The new AP stuff has brickwall filters which may well reveal less of this. In any case the Class D amps I have tried so far either made me uncomfortable or quite ill.
B Cheney
Pres VMPS Ribbon
www.vmpsaudio.com
PS- I find it interesting that Mr.Cheney would like to see scope photos of Tommy's amps, yet I've never
seen him post any measurments of his speakers. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the measurements. 8)
PS- I find it interesting that Mr.Cheney would like to see scope photos of Tommy's amps, yet I've never
seen him post any measurments of his speakers. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the measurements. 8)
Speaker measurements can be important, but measuring speakers and measuring electronics are two very different things.
I find it interesting that there are people I know that have never heard a class D amp they like and also don't care for DSD recordings. Placebo? maybe or is there something amiss in the frequencies above 20k that in some way affect the audible frequencies? :scratch:
http://stereophile.com/features/404metrics/
Lin
jhm731:
In fact, some of our speaker measurements (RM/X bass system FR plus distortion) have been published here, and were featured in the "photo gallery" just two days ago. Not my photo gallery, but the pix that pop up on the right side of the home page every time one accesses this site.
jhm731:
In fact, some of our speaker measurements (RM/X bass system FR plus distortion) have been published here, and were featured in the "photo gallery" just two days ago. Not my photo gallery, but the pix that pop up on the right side of the home page every time one accesses this site.
Their here..... (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=75&page=3) :thumb:
Could I request please that all discussion (and/or bickering) about speaker measurements be moved to a separate thread, to avoid endangering AmpDesigner's thread. Thanks.
JohnR
interesting topicmaybe something you want to comment on..................i noticed you did post about the link i sent, but noone commented after that ............
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50955.msg523750;topicseen#new
on another subject the amp you had on ebay didnt sell you are barking up the wrong tree on ebay and amazon yoshould try again on audiogon and get reviews by people on ac see my other ideas about that a few pages back how about getting buyers to post here???????????????? maybe you need a course in sales and marketing because it looks like you are not trying to hard to sell or just going to the wrong places have you thought of asking krell or bryston or somebody like that to put their name on your product or your guts in theirs??????????
have you thought of asking krell or bryston or somebody like that to put their name on your product or your guts in theirs??????????
I'd like to know if anyone is using unbalanced inputs and a "ground cheater plug" to eliminate noise..
I'd like to know if anyone is using unbalanced inputs and a "ground cheater plug" to eliminate noise..
I would hope that no one, who cares about the safety of others, would publically admit to such.
You might well minimize ground loop induced noise/hum, but give up whatever benefits you accrue via balanced inputs. It is an unnecessary choice. It it also a substantial violation of US/Canada electrical codes. There is no such thing as a 'cheater' plug, There ARE plugs whose intended use is to provide a grounded outlet to a nominally ungrounded receptacle, via the receptacle's center center screw which is tied via the receptacles strap to a grounded box.
This might be appropriate for alternative solutions -
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf
FWIW,
Paul
on this page there is a picture with the link "http://www.digitalamp.com/Picture%203619.jpg". This picture does not show up. Also if I click on the link to go to that product page http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm the same picture does not show up, while the other one (of the two pics) does. This happens on both the Chrome and Firefox browsers so I think it's safe to say the file is missing. If you delete the cache in your browser (under options) you will probably see the same thing I am seeing.
I would recommend you pay someone who knows how to setup a "Joomla" website. Very professional and less expensive than having one built from scratch. You may be able to buy a Joomla Template and set it up yourself.
Good luck with your biz.
cheers, -Brad-
update: I downloaded one of your "small" pics. It was 1600x1200 pixels and 700K bytes in size! This would be OK for an expanded display after clicking on the small image. But you can reduce these images to 12% (to 20K in size) for the initial pic on your products page.
We received a question about damping factor this week. Both the DAC4800A and Cherry were tested for this at 1KHz, which is higher than normal for a damping factor test. Into 8 ohms, it measures around 200 (Rload/Rout). We plan to test at 100Hz and post the result here...
There has been some controversy regarding the real meaning of damping factor, however. Tube amps are known for their sweet sound but usually have a low damping factor due to high output impedance. We believe the natural open loop performance of the amp comes into play as damping factor lowers. In most cases this occurs as frequency rises. With good power supply design and strong output stages, damping factor can mean less to the sound of an amp. Once again, the proof is in the pudding, so there's no substitute for listening.
Looking for some commentary about this subject...
Please take a moment and sign up for our newsletter. We have one coming out very soon (this weekend?). Here's the link:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm
Tommy or jhm731,
Can you post a clear picture of the front and rear? I can't get what it looks like from any online photos. Looks like a lot of LEDs on the front. Can they be shut off?
Thanks!!
Rich
This amplifier is also a "green" product since it consumes less than 30W when "quiet" and less than 5W in standby mode.
Please take a moment and sign up for our newsletter. We have one coming out very soon (this weekend?). Here's the link:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm
The newsletter went out today, so please send me a private message if you signed up but didn't receive it. Thanks.
Tommy,
Can you elaborate on this:QuoteThis amplifier is also a "green" product since it consumes less than 30W when "quiet" and less than 5W in standby mode.
Is it better to:
A) Leave the amp powered on 24/7 in "quiet" mode?
B) Leave the amp powered on 24/7 and switch into standy mode when not listening?
C) Power on/off for each listening session?
Some amps work fine powered on/off for each session, while others benefit from being left on. Where does your amp fit into this?
-jim
Tommy or jhm731,
Can you post a clear picture of the front and rear? I can't get what it looks like from any online photos. Looks like a lot of LEDs on the front. Can they be shut off?
Thanks!!
Rich
Tommy,
How does one operate the DAC4800A in bridged mode?
-jim
Hello- I agree 100% that it's difficult getting people to know you. This web site is a great place to be as you mentioned. The problem I have noticed is that people tend to look for what they know about and do not bother to look at new companies. I wish it wasn't that way because learning about new companies and products only enriches the shopping experience.
I asked about this - the previously offered units were demos and in prototype chassis.
Stop THE Presses!!! This may be a first, but I 100 percent completely agree with Robin :)I asked about this - the previously offered units were demos and in prototype chassis.
I remember, I've read this thread as it's progressed,, but they were all listed on EBAY in the exact same format as this latest auction. Nothing was mentioned in the other auctions about demos and in prototype chassis. They were all listed as new. Whatever, it doesn't change my perception. Just stating my opinion as many others already have, it doesn't need to mean anything other than to me. :D
Cheers,
Robin
Stop THE Presses!!! This may be a first, but I 100 percent completely agree with Robin :)I asked about this - the previously offered units were demos and in prototype chassis.
I remember, I've read this thread as it's progressed,, but they were all listed on EBAY in the exact same format as this latest auction. Nothing was mentioned in the other auctions about demos and in prototype chassis. They were all listed as new. Whatever, it doesn't change my perception. Just stating my opinion as many others already have, it doesn't need to mean anything other than to me. :D
Cheers,
Robin
hehe.
Mike
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.
As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.
-Mike
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.
As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.
-Mike
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.
As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.
-Mike
Hey!
Okay, maybe I've said too soon than, should have wait another month or two and after a few of his amps listed on eBay :D
Let's see than I'm sure that many of you here want to see and hear his amp after all these talk :wink:
BTW... Mike/mfsoa, I won't make it to your Rave again. :cry:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.
As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.
-Mike
Hey!
Okay, maybe I've said too soon than, should have wait another month or two and after a few of his amps listed on eBay :D
Let's see than I'm sure that many of you here want to see and hear his amp after all these talk :wink:
BTW... Mike/mfsoa, I won't make it to your Rave again. :cry:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Hey Mike, I just scoped out your last years RAVE thread and I'll be there! I now remember you telling me about them VSR VR4JR of yours at a past RAVE and I want to listen to them real bad. :drool: If DAC shows up with a DAC4800A and or Cherry amps, all the better. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.
As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.
-Mike
Hey!
Okay, maybe I've said too soon than, should have wait another month or two and after a few of his amps listed on eBay :D
Let's see than I'm sure that many of you here want to see and hear his amp after all these talk :wink:
BTW... Mike/mfsoa, I won't make it to your Rave again. :cry:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Hey Mike, I just scoped out your last years RAVE thread and I'll be there! I now remember you telling me about them VSR VR4JR of yours at a past RAVE and I want to listen to them real bad. :drool: If DAC shows up with a DAC4800A and or Cherry amps, all the better. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
Robin / all,
OK, I'm back! Pardon the brief lapse in "defending myself".
All you can do on a message board is talk, so why the "walk the walk" comment? That's a rhetorical question.
We cater to customers, and we have a 30-day 100% money back guarantee. If a potential customer can't afford to buy one to try one, they can't afford to buy one, period.
By the way, some new reviews here:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC_REVIEWS.htm
I'm waiting to hear more info about the October 25th rave (in NJ) and do plan to attend. Not sure if I'll bring both models, but will try.
Thanks for reading this thread, and thanks for your interest.
There aren't any "$300 bucks worth of B&O modules" in this amp. Anyone who's look at at the pictures on Tommy's website could tell you this.
If you're not "simple poor," and are in the market for a powerful, cool running amp, I suggest you contact Tommy and arrange for a 30 day trial.
Aloha,
Dan
There aren't any "$300 bucks worth of B&O modules" in this amp. Anyone who's look at at the pictures on Tommy's website could tell you this.
If you're not "simple poor," and are in the market for a powerful, cool running amp, I suggest you contact Tommy and arrange for a 30 day trial.
Aloha,
Dan
No not really, I see it by what someone else posted on the first page, not on the very informative site. BTW any review or comparison to offer AC?
There aren't any "$300 bucks worth of B&O modules" in this amp. Anyone who's look at at the pictures on Tommy's website could tell you this.
If you're not "simple poor," and are in the market for a powerful, cool running amp, I suggest you contact Tommy and arrange for a 30 day trial.
Aloha,
Dan
No not really, I see it by what someone else posted on the first page, not on the very informative site. BTW any review or comparison to offer AC?
You took the words right out of my mouth. Afterall, jhm731 is the 1st AC're to have taken the plunge yet we've heard nothing from him but buy, buy, buy. A review of sorts would be nice, a comparsion with any other known amps would be better. Come on jhm731,,,, throw us dogs a bone will ya? :D
Cheers,
Robin
Ill be honest, The problem isnt really with credibility its with perceived value of the product. Nobody is shelling out the $3800 when things have shown it can be picked up for $1000. Its a sour taste in the same vein as cable pricing structure. Some products here sell for a bunch and are critically worth the asking, others such as some kits are extremely undervalued. Some others are meh, bring it over and Ill listen. In all these cases we know the justification of price and we determine what we like sonically. Its easy to swallow when you know a kit has 80% of its price in its cost of parts and the manufacturer spends time and effort to get it in front of us. Its wholly another when we know there is $300 bucks worth of B&O modules that many established companies are offering in many different packages and telling us its worth it if only we would pony up.
Not meaning to sound harsh, just as Im sure you didnt mean to sound condescending by suggesting the reason none of us havent had the privilege to hear your fine product because we are simply poor. The song remains the same and the solution is still simple.
:D 12 pages and still swing-in' a dead cat, :duh: please box one of your fine amps and send it to the NY,NY boys for a test run, then and only then, that dead cat will be free.....get it out-there into the world...... :D
:D sorry bout' that,too much coffee :thumb:
:D sorry bout' that,too much coffee :thumb:
No problem. Our amps are already "out in the world" --- check the reviews on our site, and take a look at the specs. How about buying one to try it out?
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
:D please,your next post should ask what address to send the demo amp.end it at this,no more play-time my friend,get it done with your next post.please and thks :thumb:
I can't imagine another amplifier manufacturer on this forum who would have a brand new amp, listed at half-price, go without having at least a bit of a bid frenzy.
I can't imagine another amplifier manufacturer on this forum who would have a brand new amp, listed at half-price, go without having at least a bit of a bid frenzy.
That comment is way off base.
The manufacturers that participate on this message board are already known, have a product history and user base.
DAC does not and that's what Tom is trying to change. I perceive Tom as the consumate engineer without perhaps the business, not marketing savvy. MHO also.
We would like to get feedback from a RELIABLE, recognized source. Who is best to do this?
Amp D333,
I suggest you attend the next Rave and leave the amp to do a tour. Most of the time, quick impression is about all you can get of a gear in a big social gathering. You really need a week or so to get a good sense of the gear. I would leave the amp with the host and schedule a review tour. Most reviewers will be glad to pay the forwarding shipping charge, I think. I am interested.
P.S. Chris, sending the RAVE CD with the amp on the tour (if there is one) would be nice. Then everyone can comment on the same tracks.
Amp D333,
I suggest you attend the next Rave and leave the amp to do a tour. Most of the time, quick impression is about all you can get of a gear in a big social gathering. You really need a week or so to get a good sense of the gear. I would leave the amp with the host and schedule a review tour. Most reviewers will be glad to pay the forwarding shipping charge, I think. I am interested.
P.S. Chris, sending the RAVE CD with the amp on the tour (if there is one) would be nice. Then everyone can comment on the same tracks.
That's a good idea Rim.... :thumb:
This coming Saturday (9/27) is the next Rave at topround's/Mike's in Ramsey, N.J.
I've read that Tommy and his amp may attend the Oct. Rave...but if he moves it up to the Sept. Rave, it can be "home auditioned" by the Raver's living close to topround's (in their systems) as well.
And there are quiet a few in that local ....as well as a pro reviewer (friend of topround's).
It can then he delivered to the Oct. Rave to make another appearance....with more photo's and comments.
So....all in all....two Rave's...photo's....Raver home audition comments... I think that would give most a good handle on how this amp performs....and no more beating the horse... :deadhorse: :lol:
I will alert topround to this thread.....good luck. :thumb:
Chris
AmpD333,
PM topround its his rave this month.
Mike
By the way, 333 was the PA lottery number tonight.
OK, we're now taking suggestions on the new name for DAC.
Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner? I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...
Taken from the NYAR thread today...Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner? I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...
The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there). In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.
Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip. Was that fed with a conditioner? If so, what type?
I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October... Thanks.
Taken from the NYAR thread today...Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner? I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...
The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there). In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.
Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip. Was that fed with a conditioner? If so, what type?
I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October... Thanks.
No conditioner at Mikes, that power strip was a Niam approved strip tho, I use the same strip as an extension out of my BPT. I would be interested to hear your amps thru a good power conditioner tho. You might be surprised Tommy. :D
Cheers,
Robin
Taken from the NYAR thread today...Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner? I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...
The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there). In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.
Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip. Was that fed with a conditioner? If so, what type?
I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October... Thanks.
No conditioner at Mikes, that power strip was a Niam approved strip tho, I use the same strip as an extension out of my BPT. I would be interested to hear your amps thru a good power conditioner tho. You might be surprised Tommy. :D
Cheers,
Robin
I had the DAC4800A plugged into a RSA Duke and it didn't make any difference.
From what I can see, the DAC4800A has an AC line filter similar to the "Felix."
Taken from the NYAR thread today...Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner? I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...
The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there). In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.
Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip. Was that fed with a conditioner? If so, what type?
I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October... Thanks.
No conditioner at Mikes, that power strip was a Niam approved strip tho, I use the same strip as an extension out of my BPT. I would be interested to hear your amps thru a good power conditioner tho. You might be surprised Tommy. :D
Cheers,
Robin
I had the DAC4800A plugged into a RSA Duke and it didn't make any difference.
From what I can see, the DAC4800A has an AC line filter similar to the "Felix."
Really,,,, now that would be a first and definitely a step all manufacturers should take a look at. Bet Occam would be interested in taking a look at that line filter. :D
Cheers,
Robin
Tommy,
So, using a <= 4 ohm speaker would result in a higher slew rate. What are the sonic implications of this, if any?
-jim
We have a DAC4800A amp available now that was used only for a few weeks. It's in perfect condition and was fully re-tested. We are willing to sell it for cheap to good home (of an AC member)! Let me know if you're interested.
We have a DAC4800A amp available now that was used only for a few weeks. It's in perfect condition and was fully re-tested. We are willing to sell it for cheap to good home (of an AC member)! Let me know if you're interested.
This amp has been sold. Thanks.
Due to limited production, we encourage you to purchase at least one of these amazing amps TODAY! Limit three units per customer.
These are priced at $6000.00 each.
I better get my order in now :wink:
You are an unkind person. Your communication skills are also abominable.
You are an unkind person. Your communication skills are also abominable.
x2 THE_ANSWERS w/o a clue,,,,, :scratch: :lol:
You are an unkind person. Your communication skills are also abominable.
x2 THE_ANSWERS w/o a clue,,,,, :scratch: :lol:
it a little fustrating to me since i heard the dac amp years ago and even complimented this guy on the product but then i commented on his sales and markting with a few suggestions.... seems I was mostly ignored. about my comm skill I TYPE FAST, SO WHAT????? see, there are caps for you in case youre going to point that out too
i'm an audio lover and dont like to spend lots of money on it mainly because i don't think it necessary and there are a lot of scams out there
when you see a company saying how they save so much money by no advertising and selling only direct you might think "great deal", but the prices are so high there's no way id buy something like that.... you call that mean?????????????
First of all, you're not clear with your message. What are you actually trying to say? Next, HOW you present questions/opinions has as much to do with your azzhole perception as what you're asking/saying at the core. You come across like an uneducated jackass more than happy to espouse your opinion of everything and anything, i.e. THE ANSWERS. Sheesh.Amen.
If the product in question doesn't work for you just don't buy it. Lots of stuff doesn't work for lots of folks. I don't go around asking Wilson speakers why dont theyy get of t her e dumb ASSES amds mak a hi-eficency swpekr cuz thats whut i LIKE.
They have a business model, pricing strategy, R&D costs that have to be defrayed, a whole universe really that you are not part of and not entitled to know about. Most companies wouldn't give a forum like this the time of day. They owe you literally NOTHING. Get over it.
And, learn how to mak wurds so peepl cn unde r s tand youu its hard to rwead youre crapy riting.
Hi, folks.
We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices. We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason. Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary. Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.
For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members. Send me a PM if you are interested. We have stock. This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.
Best Regards,
Tommy
Hi, folks.
We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices. We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason. Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary. Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.
For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members. Send me a PM if you are interested. We have stock. This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.
Best Regards,
Tommy
no harm intended...... i think the crowd here was harsh but what do you expect!!!!!!!! the slow economy special may be a good idea,,,, is it direct?
Hi, folks.
We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices. We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason. Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary. Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.
For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members. Send me a PM if you are interested. We have stock. This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.
Best Regards,
Tommy
no harm intended...... i think the crowd here was harsh but what do you expect!!!!!!!! the slow economy special may be a good idea,,,, is it direct?
You still don't have a clue NO_ANSWERS but what do you expect!!!!!!!! :lol:
I look forward to hearing your Cherry this weekend amp Tommy, either with the VSR's or the B&W's. :thumb: It'll be a 5hr drive for me & my pup. Should be a good time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
Tommy,
with hum killer ring
HEy! No dogs better be lickin my DAC... hmm that sounds.... obscene?
Mike
Tommy,
with hum killer ring
Any chance that this "hum killer ring" could be adapted to the DAC4800A? Thanks!
-jim
Tommy,
with hum killer ring
Any chance that this "hum killer ring" could be adapted to the DAC4800A? Thanks!
-jim
Jim,
I had samples made for the DAC4800A and Cherry. The band (ring) is inside the transformer wrap, and I'm not too sure how well it works yet. In any case, it probably wouldn't work as well outside the wrap. Maybe when we order a bunch of new transformers, I can upgrade yours. Unfortunately, they are significantly more expensive. Are you going to the rave tomorrow?
Best Regards,
Tommy
Hi Tommy,
this is the Isabella guy.
Few comments about Cherry amp:
* despite my mixed feeling during the September Rave at Mike's place (hard to beat the cheer-leading and commotion to really listen might have been one of the reasons as well as random and unpredicted component matching) I was kind of looking forward to another audition of Cherry amp. I promised myself to give it a serious though and actually try to listen to this newcomer.
* after the Rave , I came to conclusion that Cherry is indeed special and synergistic with few components which we had on hand during a second encounter/introduction. These were:
SP Minis and RWA Isabella preamp. For whatever reason, this combination was IMO - stellar. Given the unpredictable circumstances, room acoustics ( actually lock of it ) etc, the Minis sounded better then ever. Cherry brought the best in those little buggers and Isabella was just icing on the cake. I have to say though, that with introduction of tube preamp Cherry really opened up and its almost sterile, brute power, took Isabella's warmish presentation and present the music reproduction qualities which I can definitely relate to.
Latter.....when used in bi-amp mode with VAC amp on top to drive Mike's main rig with VR4 Jr, It also improve on already good sound. Proving itself to be very competitive contender in the World of Hi End electronics.
* It should be carefully match to ensure proper integration/synergy with one's components.
*at the end, highly recommended and definitely worth looking into. :drool:
Thanks Tommy for opportunity to hear your amp again and participating in our humble NY Raves. :thumb:
Wish you all the best :wink:
Mariusz
Bass-wise of course the qualities of the DAC play into the hand of the Minis - These speakers love to be lifted up and thrown around a room by an amp and then come back for more.
Hi, folks.
We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices. We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason. Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary. Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.
For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members. Send me a PM if you are interested. We have stock. This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.
Best Regards,
Tommy
Plugging the DAC4800A, I tested into a power conditioner (RSA Duke) didn't alter it's SQ.No Mike should choke it not you.
I never tried the stock power cord, I used the same Supra LoRads I use on my Tact amps.
I returned the DAC4800A, and received a wiki wiki refund.
Mahalo Tommy.
Aloha,
Dan
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike
Or is it?Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike
i send a pm and didnt hear back about price -------curious
Or is it?Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike
i send a pm and didnt hear back about price -------curious
M
Plugging the DAC4800A, I tested into a power conditioner (RSA Duke) didn't alter it's SQ.
I never tried the stock power cord, I used the same Supra LoRads I use on my Tact amps.
I returned the DAC4800A, and received a wiki wiki refund.
Mahalo Tommy.
Aloha,
Dan
Tommy....
Here's the link for Mike's review of your Cherry amp...some may not have seen it. :wink:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61748.0
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike
Hi Tommy,Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike
Now $2K until the end of the month.
Have you read any of the reviews?
Thanks, Mike.
-Tommy
What about the DAC4800?
Cherry amp impressions..
I received my Cherry amp a few days ago and wanted to post a few early reactions. I will try to follow up with more in depth comments in a few weeks after I have lived with it for a good period of time.
First, the amp is dead quiet. It is also much better looking than I thought it would be. The pictures really don't do it justice - the deep cherry color of the faceplate is very pleasing.
My early impressions of the sound:
No problems at all. A tremendous sense of power, particularly in the bass. One of the first things I noticed was a somewhat cleaner and more extended treble than I'm used to. This is a good thing in my system (ACI Sapphires, passive preamp, small deadish room). Perhaps related to this is a surprising improvement in PRAT over any of my previous amps. Toe tapping and head bobbing started very quickly. The Cherry also has an amazing sound stage and imaging. This is true even when listening well off axis and it is not subtle. I am also hearing an across the board improvement in detail. This is not a "fingers squeaking on the strings" sort of thing so much as an enhanced ability to pick out and follow each member of a well recorded jazz combo. The old analogy of someone cleaning the window is apt. I would say this amplifier is well worth hearing and should be compared with the best you can come up with.
i really like this amp with my revalation.it's sound exactly how u guys describe it.i was wondering since tommy built this amp .Can He's separated the power supply from the amp.like Naim does their?maybe That will take this amp to another level. aa
lapsan
i really like this amp with my revalation.it's sound exactly how u guys describe it.i was wondering since tommy built this amp .Can He's separated the power supply from the amp.like Naim does their?maybe That will take this amp to another level.
What will take this amp design to another level, are mono versions that put out over 1000 watts into 8 ohms. I suggested this to Tommy when I had the DAC4800A here for evalution.
BTW- IMO, the DAC4800A is a better sounding amp than the AVA Insight 440H, I recently tested.
AFAIK the amps are bridgeable for the power you seek, but I know that's not really mono. But I had another idea - "Mono" amps that are two-channel for vertical bi-amping. So, each amp would have a single input but that would get split into two channels, so the bass can use the 90+% (?) of the power supply that it needs in one chanel, and the treble can use the bit that it needs from the single power supply w/out being bothered by the demands of the bass. Separate speaker jacks of course.
Just a thought...
-Mike
First, a two channel amp ain't monoHence the quotes around "Mono"
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I? :lol:
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I? :lol:
I agree it's not a good idea.
Given a conventional biwire-ready speaker w/ internal crossovers biwired to a single amp tap, the tweeter/mid aren't drawing the same power that the woofer is (I'm pretty sure). The crossovers see the same voltage, but the drivers don't see the same power. Otherwise if you biamped with lets say a 400 watt amp on the woofer portion, you would need the same 400 watts for the tweeter, which is not the case. When biwiring, the tweeter is probably using fractions of a watt even though it is connected to the same thing the woofer is. The crossover doesn't dissipate the extra energy, it simply never asks for that energy to be sent to its drivers. (Again, I think this is the way to think of it, please 'splain it better to me if you can :thumb:). I can't imagine the heat that would be cooped up in a little mid/tweeter cabinet if the crossover actually had to dissipate that much energy :nono:
Therefore, in a stereo amp w/ one transformer used for vertical biamping, the majority of the power would be available for the bass and the treble would use very little. The channel that produces the treble would then have a much easier task of things, which I could certainly see resulting an an improvement in sound. Therefore in my theoretical VBA amp that uses only 1 input for both the L and R channels (actually, bass and treble channels), you can vertical biamp a 2 ch stereo with a single pair of interconnects, making this a possibility for people with only 1 pr of preamp outs, or freeing up a pair for some other use if the pre has 2 pr of outputs.
See, not so bad an idea after all :thumb:
-Mike
My passive is the Channel Islands Audio PLC.1....
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I? :lol:
I agree it's not a good idea.
Unless there's a crossover before or inside your "Mono" amp both channels will get a full range signal, draw the same amount of current from the power supply, output a full range signal on both channnels and the speaker's crossover
will have to dissipate the wasted power sent to the mid/tweets.
Mele Kalikimaka!
My passive is the Channel Islands Audio PLC.1....
I'm curious to learn how a passive attenuator could work assuming the input Z on the Cherry is very low as is the DAC4800A?
-jim
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I? :lol:
I agree it's not a good idea.
Unless there's a crossover before or inside your "Mono" amp both channels will get a full range signal, draw the same amount of current from the power supply, output a full range signal on both channnels and the speaker's crossover
will have to dissipate the wasted power sent to the mid/tweets.
Mele Kalikimaka!
Actually, typical crossovers will NOT load the amp across the band. For instance, the simplest of crossovers is merely an inductor or cap in series with the driver. A cap to reject lows or an inductor to reject highs. In this simple example, the amp is not loaded with bass if it only drives the tweeter through a cap --- even if the input to the amp has lots of bass. The advantage of driving a high frequency element, even though a crossover, directly with a separate amp is that there is definitely a smaller power requirement than full range. Mike's idea is not new, and definitely not bad.
By the way, some fancier crossovers try to look as resistive as possible to make them easier to drive and that can add load farther out from the drivers range. Now, somewhere, I have info on spectral content for specific music tracks... Using that info, it's possible to determine high/low bi-amping power requirements. It certainly varies based on content (or genre).
Happy New Year to all.
Tommy, perhaps you can please answer this question, which I know for a fact is scaring away a few potential buyers of these new switching technology amps.
I have been hearing some rumor lately, that some of these new types of switching amps can have high enough switching-frequencies and voltages, that they can thus actually produce and emit some low-level x-ray radiation. Is this potentially correct, even in theory?
I realize this is a weird question, but I don't like to settle for anecdotal information - I'd rather ask an expert (you) for a detailed reply.
Thanks in advance.
...Switching amplifiers emit a small amount of EMR at frequencies from 100KHz to 10MHz just like any switching power supply you might find in your house. No X-RAY radiation (30 petahertz to 30 exahertz)! Thanks for the post.
And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation.
As follow-ups please: In the emission frequency range you specified, can you say approximately what amount of EMI your amps (and to your knowledge, other manufacturers' switching amps) actually do emit? Is there any possibility (even remote) of any health impact or danger, from long term exposure to these emissions at close ranges? :?:
As follow-ups please: In the emission frequency range you specified, can you say approximately what amount of EMI your amps (and to your knowledge, other manufacturers' switching amps) actually do emit? Is there any possibility (even remote) of any health impact or danger, from long term exposure to these emissions at close ranges? :?:
Tommy will answer for his products specifically - I'll just post some general info...
Class D amplifiers, along with ANY electronic component having oscillator operating above 9kHz, MUST comply with FCC imposed emission limits in the frequency range of 450kHz to 1GHz (450kHz to 30MHz for conducted emissions and 30MHz-1GHz for radiated emissions). In Europe, limit is 150kHz-1GHz (and 30MHz is a crossover between conducted and radiated emissions). This is for UNINTENDED radiators, not for radio stations, cell phones, etc. In practice, most switchmode power supplies and class D amps radiate in 100kHz-150MHz range.
The actual limits for household equipment are more stringent than for industrial equipment.
Now - the primary goal of the regulations is to prevent harmful effects on other electronic equipment (in Europe the equipment must have a certain level of immunity to electrical and magnetic fields). I am not aware of any regulation or study discussing harmful effects on humans. However, allowed emission levels are much lower than your typical cordless or cell phone, wireless router, etc.
Boris
And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation.
Would very much like to hear how exactly his designs better the UcD in theory and implementation....
...AC power lines are on the top of the list, even though the frequencies are low. Next comes your cell phone...
...AC power lines are on the top of the list, even though the frequencies are low. Next comes your cell phone...
Thanks Tommy and Boris for the info regarding the radiation type/frequencies that these switching amps emit.
Tommy, just to reiterate my above question please: In the emission frequency range you specified for your amps, can you say approximately what amount of EMI radiation your amps actually do emit? :?:
I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer. The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...
I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer. The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...
No plots is fine... could you at least say please what the max values are, that your amps ever emit? :?:
I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer. The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...
No plots is fine... could you at least say please what the max values are, that your amps ever emit? :?:
I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer. The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...
No plots is fine... could you at least say please what the max values are, that your amps ever emit? :?:
I'll send you an answer via PM... Thanks again.
There are a few key differences. For one, UCD takes feedback after the filter which allows less phase margin and relies on the capacitance of the output to control the modulation. There is also more than a decade of R&D behind the Digital Amp Co. methods involving much more than the general topology of the amp. We use innovation in our modulation method, component selection, and practical implementation matters (layout, partitioning, etc.).
Sorry this can't go to the "exactly" level without divulging some "secret sauce" info. We believe UCD is one of our more worthy competitors, and we have the greatest respect for Bruno P who created the technology. I'd like to hear some more opinions from people who have heard both, preferably in an A/B comparison. So far, we have heard that the Cherry and DAC4800A sound better all around, but keep in mind the speakers, source, power output, and setup can make all the difference.
Thanks for your post!
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.
Quote from: cabThe Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.
I've never owned a class D amp of any kind (mostly due to a lack of opportunity), but did just read an interesting article by Nelson Pass on negative feedback and the value of distortion specs as currently reported by most manufacturers:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/distortion/distortion.html
(I certainly wouldn't claim anyone is an authority over anyone else, but Nelson Pass certainly has a lot of experience in this area...)
As a general point, keep in mind that electromagnetic radiation follows an inverse square law, meaning that if you double the distance from the amp, the EM drops by a factor of 4. Triple the distance, and it drops by a factor of 9, etc.. While I certainly like the idea of minimizing EMI as a general concept and pay attention to such things myself, I focus much more on the cell phone that I hold next to my head rather than components located some distance away from me when operating.
(That said, I'd be curious to see the EMI numbers more generally reported by amp manufacturers as well, if for no other reason than to let me know ahead of time whether I'd be forced to use shielded ICs.)
I think what Tommy is trying to say is that his feedback is taken before the output filter rather than after, not that it doesn't use feedback. As long as the output filter is of high quality, it will contribute very little distortion of its own. In tube amplifiers, for example, it is most common to take feedback after the output transformer - but stability gains can be had by taking it before, with comparable distortion-reduction.
Only class D amps with high switching freqs are a problem for EM pollution.
FWIW, NuForce is probably one. I dont' think they have room or dissapation capability for a linear supply in their little case.Quote from: richidooOnly class D amps with high switching freqs are a problem for EM pollution.... although I can't think of any shipping amps offhand that use this configuration) while many class D (switching) amps use a linear power supply.
...
Only class D amps with high switching freqs are a problem for EM pollution. Bryston does not make class D amps.
... although I can't think of any shipping amps offhand that use this configuration) while many class D (switching) amps use a linear power supply.FWIW, NuForce is probably one. I dont' think they have room or dissapation capability for a linear supply in their little case.
...
CAB, it is entirely possible that Tommy doesn't have the same design philosophy, especially regarding feedback, that UcD does, in which case you wouldn't expect identical specs. Certainly many amps play better with some types of speakers than others, but work exceedingly well for the subset they target. (I'd never use a tube amp to drive a demanding woofer, for example, but many people will use nothing but tubes on a sensitive speaker or the mid-tweet of a more demanding speaker - even if tube amp specs aren't always as impressive as the specs of other amp topologies.) Personally, specs alone wouldn't preclude me from listening to any amp, especially as I'm pretty convinced that the commonly reported measurements don't go far enough in fully characterizing what we can actually hear. (For example, when people discuss distortion in amps or jitter in sources, I'd like to see the spectra involved, not just a single max value.)
I agree that load invariant power is an excellent design goal, but my point was that the common mechanism to achieve this - negative feedback - isn't "free" in terms of the acoustic signature it lends an amp.
Sorry, I got caught by the double negative sort of thing - doh...... although I can't think of any shipping amps offhand that use this configuration) while many class D (switching) amps use a linear power supply.FWIW, NuForce is probably one. I dont' think they have room or dissapation capability for a linear supply in their little case.
...
You cut of my quote too early! :wink:
I mentioned a non-switching amp module with a switching supply. NuForce amps have a SMPS in front of a switching amp module.
There are a few key differences. For one, UCD takes feedback after the filter which allows less phase margin and relies on the capacitance of the output to control the modulation. There is also more than a decade of R&D behind the Digital Amp Co. methods involving much more than the general topology of the amp. We use innovation in our modulation method, component selection, and practical implementation matters (layout, partitioning, etc.).
Sorry this can't go to the "exactly" level without divulging some "secret sauce" info. We believe UCD is one of our more worthy competitors, and we have the greatest respect for Bruno P who created the technology. I'd like to hear some more opinions from people who have heard both, preferably in an A/B comparison. So far, we have heard that the Cherry and DAC4800A sound better all around, but keep in mind the speakers, source, power output, and setup can make all the difference.
Thanks for your post!
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.
10 years of time developing your amp means nothing as far as why it is superior from a theoretical or implementation standpoint.
You seem reluctant to discuss EMI data on your amp... Has it passed the EU requirements for radiated EMF? What makes your layout, etc., better? UcD is well known to have passed and has very little EMI, unlike most other class d amps....
No offense, but Bruno, based on his work, publications, and patents, is recognized as one of the leading authorities, if not the authority, in the world, on class d amp design. Other than this amp, what publications, patents, and research have you published which would lend credence to your claims that you have out designed and out implemented the leading expert on class d?
To say that some people think it sounds better is not proof in my book-too subjective and too dependent on a multitude of other factors...besides, I am sure there are plenty of people who would disagree...such is the subjective nature of audio....
I have no doubt your product is a good one; it simply seems to me that the claims that it is a better design and implementation than the UcD is a bold statement that requires more than hand waving to back up.....
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.
I think what Tommy is trying to say is that his feedback is taken before the output filter rather than after, not that it doesn't use feedback. As long as the output filter is of high quality, it will contribute very little distortion of its own. In tube amplifiers, for example, it is most common to take feedback after the output transformer - but stability gains can be had by taking it before, with comparable distortion-reduction.
Judging by the measurements posted on the website, his amp should have no problem competing with a UcD. I am mighty impressed, and proud to see it is a product of Pennsylvania :thumb:
Here is what I am talking about:
Frequency response vs load:
Cherry Amp (4 and 8 ohm loads):
(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/cherry.jpg)
UcD Amp
(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/ucd.jpg)
The UcD is FLAT for 3, 6 and infinite ohms (open circuit).
One can see that the frequency response for the Cherry varies depending on the load. Figures aren't provided for less than 4 or greater than 8 ohm loads, but the trend is apparent.
Here is what I am talking about:
Frequency response vs load:
Cherry Amp (4 and 8 ohm loads):
(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/cherry.jpg)
UcD Amp
(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/ucd.jpg)
The UcD is FLAT for 3, 6 and infinite ohms (open circuit).
One can see that the frequency response for the Cherry varies depending on the load. Figures aren't provided for less than 4 or greater than 8 ohm loads, but the trend is apparent.
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?
Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....
Here is what I am talking about:
Frequency response vs load:
Cherry Amp (4 and 8 ohm loads):
(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/cherry.jpg)
UcD Amp
(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/ucd.jpg)
The UcD is FLAT for 3, 6 and infinite ohms (open circuit).
One can see that the frequency response for the Cherry varies depending on the load. Figures aren't provided for less than 4 or greater than 8 ohm loads, but the trend is apparent.
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?
Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....
Take a look at the frequencies! It's a little hard to read the UCD graph, but you can see from the DAC plot that there is less than a 1dB difference between 4 and 8 ohms load at 20KHz. Once again, this comes down to sound. I have designed several amps that use after-filter feedback, and it certainly takes away from clarity, especially for "guitar pluck" and "cymbal tap" type dynamics. That is based on years of research and development. Thanks again.
BR,
Tommy
Hey cab, why don't you compare the 2 amps for yourself and see which design you prefer? Seems mfsoa has done this and he made his statement based on an opinion. :thumb: Myself, I'll take an actual listener's(that being mfsoa) opinion over your charts, specs, and rants anyday. :D
Cheers,
Robin
edit, I too was pestimistic as my early posts in this thread will attest but I have heard this amp a few times, thanks to Tommy's participation in past RAVES and I have liked what I heard,,, really liked in some cases depending on the preamp matchups. I myself haven't ever had the chance to hear a UcD amp or compare the 2 so i have no opionion as to any superiority claims between the 2 designs myself. :thumb:
Proof, specs and other nomenclature can be the equivalent of toilet paper when it comes to audio performance.
Take for example the measurements conducted on tube amps versus solid state. They typically measure poorer than solid state.
But in the listening, there's an entirely different story being told... :wink:
The discussion was about the comment that your amp is a better design and implementation than the UcDI made that comment and maybe shouldn't have. Let's not take Tommy to task for not defending my comment vigorously enough. :thumb:
Hey cab, why don't you compare the 2 amps for yourself and see which design you prefer? Seems mfsoa has done this and he made his statement based on an opinion. :thumb: Myself, I'll take an actual listener's(that being mfsoa) opinion over your charts, specs, and rants anyday. :D
Cheers,
Robin
edit, I too was pestimistic as my early posts in this thread will attest but I have heard this amp a few times, thanks to Tommy's participation in past RAVES and I have liked what I heard,,, really liked in some cases depending on the preamp matchups. I myself haven't ever had the chance to hear a UcD amp or compare the 2 so i have no opionion as to any superiority claims between the 2 designs myself. :thumb:
It is strictly a matter of engineering, not subjective performance. Claiming it is superior in design and implementation means charts and specs not customer reviews. Not sure where you are getting the rant portion....
It's like claiming car b, which is slower, costs more, and emits more emissions than car a, is a better design than car a because some drivers liked driving it better than car a.
Glad you and others like it. I'm just asking for proof that supports the marketing.....
I agree that load invariant power is an excellent design goal, but my point was that the common mechanism to achieve this - negative feedback - isn't "free" in terms of the acoustic signature it lends an amp. Some people don't like the sound of GNFB amps, just like others don't like tubes, or solid state, or class D, or any other over-generalized term that may or may apply to a specific amp. Like everything else, it is a matter of degree. (I'd very much recommend the Nelson Pass article I linked to further up this thread - I don't know how much I'm personally concerned about feedback, but I found it educational regardless.)
I would also add that there are other ways to deal with a significantly non-flat impedance curves, for example, from a Zobel network to a fully active rig where suitable amps are slaved directly to drivers. If the curve is significantly problematic, I would also tend to lay some of the criticism on the speaker designer, rather than expect every amp to handle it without oscillating!
Of course, this thread is now veering pretty heavily into general amp and system design philosophy and away from Tommy's specific products, so I will attempt to avoid further excursions off-topic. Sorry, Tommy!
And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.
Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.
-Mike
Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....
"Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. Very Happy
Cheers,
Robin"
Maybe you missed the post that started this where the OP, a customer I believe, related what he was told by the designer....I have quoted it below for you......
In any case, this horse is dead and there is no need to beat it further. Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....
And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.
Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.
-Mike
"Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. Very Happy
Cheers,
Robin"
Maybe you missed the post that started this where the OP, a customer I believe, related what he was told by the designer....I have quoted it below for you......
In any case, this horse is dead and there is no need to beat it further. Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....
And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.
Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.
-Mike
"Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. Very Happy
Cheers,
Robin"
Maybe you missed the post that started this where the OP, a customer I believe, related what he was told by the designer....I have quoted it below for you......
In any case, this horse is dead and there is no need to beat it further. Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....
And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.
Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.
-Mike
Cab (what is your real name?),
Thank you for your participation in this thread. As you remarked, we starting to beat a dead horse. As for articles, press releases, patents, and the like, I figured I'd Google that for you (try the following links):
http://tinyurl.com/cyxraz
http://tinyurl.com/clu5bl
http://tinyurl.com/c39jn2
Also, try the following keywords: Ravisent, ST Microsystems, Crest Audio, AudioXPress, Live Sound International, AES, Amplifier, Class-D, Digital Amp, Switching Audio Amp, Digital Recorder, EEG, EKG, Ultrasound, iPod, iTunes, Apple, Digital5, Sycom, Telefactor, Board Level Digital Amp, Module Based Digital Amp, etc.
I noticed some of those who either own DAC amps or have heard them stepped in to defend our small, American, innovative company. Sorry we are not playing the game like other companies, but that's how we are able to give our customers real value instead of having them pay for a marketing program. Thanks again.
WR,
Tommy
Thank you for the links. I would have had better luck if I could have found your name on your web site....
Best of luck....
Thank you for the links. I would have had better luck if I could have found your name on your web site....
Best of luck....
My questions have gone unanswered, but either way, thanks again... You should really listen to one of our amps someday. We are certain that you'll be impressed!
-Tommy
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?
Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?
Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....
:scratch:
I know you've brought up this issue many times before on this forum (re: switching amp output filters). A +/-1.5dB response variation at 30-50kHz is quite benign to humans. To suggest this is equivalent to the frequency response deviations of a low-feedback tube amplifier (that occur all throughout the audio band with typical speaker loads) is either disingenuous or (hopefully) simply misled. It is clear that varying design approaches lead to different trade-offs, between linear and nonlinear distortion, frequency and phase response, etc... to say that one approach is better than the other on the basis of one measured parameter is insufficient - in reality the approaches are simply different. In any case, your confrontational approach here makes me quite uneasy. :?
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?
Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....
:scratch:
I know you've brought up this issue many times before on this forum (re: switching amp output filters). A +/-1.5dB response variation at 30-50kHz is quite benign to humans. To suggest this is equivalent to the frequency response deviations of a low-feedback tube amplifier (that occur all throughout the audio band with typical speaker loads) is either disingenuous or (hopefully) simply misled. It is clear that varying design approaches lead to different trade-offs, between linear and nonlinear distortion, frequency and phase response, etc... to say that one approach is better than the other on the basis of one measured parameter is insufficient - in reality the approaches are simply different. In any case, your confrontational approach here makes me quite uneasy. :?
Wow! What a great post. Interesting choice of words with "confrontational". Of course, as I have said many times before, the proof is in the pudding. The SOUND is all that really matters. I have had the pleasure of hearing Mike's system driven by the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators. I was simply blown away! The sound was out-of-body euphoric! I found myself floating in space, surrounded by the music. Amazing! A few times, I thought the amp would overload or clip, and this never happened. The Cherry has a bigger power supply than the DAC4800A, and on the bench, puts out more power and has less distortion (at high power), but this DAC4800A was just unreal in transparency and sheer power delivery. It was like discovering known tracks all over again. Unfortunately, this is when I wanted to try my new Wadia Transport with lossless recordings of my test tracks on my iPod, but I forgot that Mike didn't have a separate D/A (notice I don't use the acronym "DAC", ha ha). Anyway, as you said, audio is full of tradeoffs, and we have always leaded toward sound quality over "the specs", even though our measured performance is outstanding. We hope that people out there recognize marketing versus customer satisfaction. Our customers have said that our amps are the best the have ever heard. So, if you're worried that your speakers might load the Cherry amp to -0.5dB at 20KHz, go ahead and give it a listen. You just might be floored in the difference between something engineered to perform well on the bench as opposed to something that's engineered to sound best in your system. Thanks again, and hope to hear from you in the future.
-Tommy
Wow! What a great post. Interesting choice of words with "confrontational". Of course, as I have said many times before, the proof is in the pudding. The SOUND is all that really matters. I have had the pleasure of hearing Mike's system driven by the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators. I was simply blown away! The sound was out-of-body euphoric! I found myself floating in space, surrounded by the music. Amazing! A few times, I thought the amp would overload or clip, and this never happened. The Cherry has a bigger power supply than the DAC4800A, and on the bench, puts out more power and has less distortion (at high power), but this DAC4800A was just unreal in transparency and sheer power delivery. It was like discovering known tracks all over again. Unfortunately, this is when I wanted to try my new Wadia Transport with lossless recordings of my test tracks on my iPod, but I forgot that Mike didn't have a separate D/A (notice I don't use the acronym "DAC", ha ha). Anyway, as you said, audio is full of tradeoffs, and we have always leaded toward sound quality over "the specs", even though our measured performance is outstanding. We hope that people out there recognize marketing versus customer satisfaction. Our customers have said that our amps are the best the have ever heard. So, if you're worried that your speakers might load the Cherry amp to -0.5dB at 20KHz, go ahead and give it a listen. You just might be floored in the difference between something engineered to perform well on the bench as opposed to something that's engineered to sound best in your system. Thanks again, and hope to hear from you in the future.
-Tommy
"new non-servo modulators"
I take it that the DAC4800A I tested didn't have these?
What improvements do these non-servo modulators make?
Dan
PS- In case anyone hasn't read my older posts, I tested a DAC4800A last year, and returned it under the 30 day trial period.
PPS- Tommy was a much better person to deal with, than the other AC amp designer/manufacturer, who's product I tried last year.
yeah Tommy,when can i try your new the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators.since i love the original 4800a.:)
lapsan
cab,The DAC amp actually does have a technical advantage over the UcD design. The DAC amp has a 3dB down point of 60kHz and the UcD amp is 3dB down at 30kHz. Because the UcD filter pole is twice as close to the audio band as DAC amp it has phase shift in the audio band in the mid and high frequencies, this is audible. The DAC amp has a filter pole far enough away from the audio band to avoid the worst of this problem,if it has a Bessel filter design it would avoid the problem entirely. The phase shift problem does not show up in a simple frequency response graph. Once again we come back to the necessity of actually listening to the amp to hear what is going on.
Scotty
See link to PDF Docs with graphs of bandwidth and phase shift
http://seniordesign.engr.uidaho.edu/2008_2009/audiophile/UcD_WhitePaper.pdf
Scotty
I think Genesis Loudspeaker is using the UcD in their new Reference Amp.Rod,
And Jeff Rowland is using the ICEamp in his topend amps.
Different strokes for different folks.
Tommy can you email me; I tried PM but the box is full ?
Rod
"new non-servo modulators"
I take it that the DAC4800A I tested didn't have these?
What improvements do these non-servo modulators make?
Dan
PS- In case anyone hasn't read my older posts, I tested a DAC4800A last year, and returned it under the 30 day trial period.
PPS- Tommy was a much better person to deal with, than the other AC amp designer/manufacturer, who's product I tried last year.
Hey, Dan. How are you these days?
The non-servo boards came in just this month, so the amp you tried didn't have them.
The difference is simple... The servo version uses an additional stage to compensate for DC offset. The non-servo version uses a capacitor in the signal path to block DC. The "purist" approach is not to have caps in the signal path. The low frequency roll off is less than 0.2Hz either way. We are still evaluating...
Tommy
"new non-servo modulators"
I take it that the DAC4800A I tested didn't have these?
What improvements do these non-servo modulators make?
Dan
PS- In case anyone hasn't read my older posts, I tested a DAC4800A last year, and returned it under the 30 day trial period.
PPS- Tommy was a much better person to deal with, than the other AC amp designer/manufacturer, who's product I tried last year.
Hey, Dan. How are you these days?
The non-servo boards came in just this month, so the amp you tried didn't have them.
The difference is simple... The servo version uses an additional stage to compensate for DC offset. The non-servo version uses a capacitor in the signal path to block DC. The "purist" approach is not to have caps in the signal path. The low frequency roll off is less than 0.2Hz either way. We are still evaluating...
Tommy
Tommy-
Doing great, thanks.
If the cap in the signal path produces "out-of-body euphoric" results, maybe it's time to forget the "purist" approach
and just enjoy the music.
Best regards to your family.
Aloha,
Dan
PS-Like Spectron's V-cap option, just think of all the favors you could offer......
:drool:1st one's on reserve already, Mike (sorry, someone beat you to it)...
Guess you want one!
Tommy,
Good to see a continued improvement and refinement,
the best is of course the Max end point Sound!
What is going to happen to the sound,,
better headroom, less variation of sound regardless of speaker types?
Rod
When Lapsan told me he preferred his 4800a on his SP-Tech Revelations compared to his Spectron SE MK2 I was flabbergasted.
I asked him again and he said Better!
Now we know YMWV but I understand the Rave also noted a synergy of the SP-Tech's speakers and DAC amps.
SP-Tech are known to reveal upstream no no's so that is really saying something good.
This must be the value of the Green Big Amps this year and
Audiocircle-ites can get in on the ground floor.
Tommy is this an economy booster?
Rod
Hey Tommy - I want to try a passive attenuator in my system but need to know the input impedence and input sensitivity ratings for my 4800A to have it built - or if you have any other recommendation please let me know. Tim at Luminous Audio builds one that looks promising;
http://www.luminousaudio.com/axiomrca.php
Take a look at the Axiom at the link above and let me know if that is something you could put together for me. If so I'll purchase it from you instead - or is there something else you would recommend? I'm just looking for the cleanest possible signal to the 4800A.
Thanks
You guys who heard the 4800A with the SP Tech speakers know what I am talking about.
If you think the 4800A sounds great with the Minis you should hear it with the Continuums, and I can only imagine what two of these in Mono would sound like through a pair of Revelations :o
Thanks Tommy - and to answer your question - the 4800A is ROCKING MY WORLD! (sorry for shouting) Seriously, it is one incredibly sweet amp. Somebody a while back said something about "out of body euphoric". Well, I'll second that. A couple examples from two of my favorite recordings; Dave Holland's Prime Directive - so incredibly present, huge soundstage, everybody in their place with correct height, depth, you name it. The other is Chick Corea To The Stars which sounded great before but a little - maybe, harsh, that's not the right word exactly, but kind of edgy. Well, now it is sweet and majorly 3D - holographic even. I keep turning around because there are people playing behind me. There is a section in the first tune where everybody is trading fours - it is just plain wicked now. Everybody is lined up right in front of me blowing like crazy. I listened to it three times in a row just to make sure it was real. And the bass - holy smokes. You guys who heard the 4800A with the SP Tech speakers know what I am talking about. I have the Continuum's and I just received a set of Mini's from another AC member. If you think the 4800A sounds great with the Minis you should hear it with the Continuums, and I can only imagine what two of these in Mono would sound like through a pair of Revelations
I get to hear a new Cherry Plus Tues at my place. :thumb:
I'll let you know how it goes.
Ted, are you thinking of trying the 4800 or Cherry Plus?
I'd love to hear two Cherrys vertically biamp something...
-Mike
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400. The list price will be $7200.
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400. The list price will be $7200.
Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400. The list price will be $7200.
Anyone else having a hard time understanding the pricing strategy?
Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?
Does the $7200 price have any rational relationship to manufacturing costs or was it chosen to make the $2400 price look like a great deal? After the deal is over, is the actual price of these going to be $7200? If not, maybe a list price of $10,000 would work even better!
Price gimmicks on equipment at these prices seems a bit out of place. Most reputable manufacturers set a stable price at a reasonable percentage above cost and offer small discounts as incentives for promotions. The way these are priced and marketed, I am holding out for the 2 for 1 deal with the bonus pack of ShamWows thrown in when I call the 800 number.....
What good is the purpose of a substantially high list price, then you kinda go off in a corner and say but boy do i ever have a deal on it at this price.I really dont get it.
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400. The list price will be $7200.
Anyone else having a hard time understanding the pricing strategy?
Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?
Does the $7200 price have any rational relationship to manufacturing costs or was it chosen to make the $2400 price look like a great deal? After the deal is over, is the actual price of these going to be $7200? If not, maybe a list price of $10,000 would work even better!
Price gimmicks on equipment at these prices seems a bit out of place. Most reputable manufacturers set a stable price at a reasonable percentage above cost and offer small discounts as incentives for promotions. The way these are priced and marketed, I am holding out for the 2 for 1 deal with the bonus pack of ShamWows thrown in when I call the 800 number.....
Point to me where any of your listings suggested a 7200 price.
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400. The list price will be $7200. Email Support@DigitalAmp.com if you are interested. First come, first served. Once the first lot is sold, it will take months to build more due to component lead times. Sorry, but this will end once the first few units are sold. We also ask that buyers agree to provide a review of this fine amp, and no "AC newbies", please. Thanks.
Regards,
Tommy
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400. The list price will be $7200.
Anyone else having a hard time understanding the pricing strategy?
Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?
Does the $7200 price have any rational relationship to manufacturing costs or was it chosen to make the $2400 price look like a great deal? After the deal is over, is the actual price of these going to be $7200? If not, maybe a list price of $10,000 would work even better!
Price gimmicks on equipment at these prices seems a bit out of place. Most reputable manufacturers set a stable price at a reasonable percentage above cost and offer small discounts as incentives for promotions. The way these are priced and marketed, I am holding out for the 2 for 1 deal with the bonus pack of ShamWows thrown in when I call the 800 number.....
I have a hard time understanding you cab. :scratch:
From what I know of DAC and Tommy, I'd say they are reputable, maybe you meant "well established" manufacturers? There are several "reputable" direct to consumer manufacturers that I know of that sell new products at introductory prices. Manufacturers with a dealer network have to do things differently than a direct manufacturer.
I don't understand why you worry so much about DAC's business model, do you own stock? :wink:
Say a pizzeria normally sells their medium pizza for $10 and this is viewed by many as a good value, if they decide to have a medium special once a week and sell it for $6, does this mean the other 6 days when the pizza is $10 is no longer a good value?
I cannot afford many of my favorite cars, but if a dealer (manufacturer) decided to sell me one at half price, I wouldn't complain, I'd buy the thing!
+1 on what others have posted in Tommy's defense.
Lin :)
I am not "worrying so much" about DAC's business model- I simply asked if others found this marketing plan odd. Your are right- there are certain things that are customarily sold with large discounts as promotions- pizza, pocket fisherman, extenzs, etc....I know of no high end audio manufacturer that sells a $7000+ component at a 67%+ discount as a promotion.
But hey, I hope he sells a ton of them....
Thanks, all, and sorry for any delay in communication. We are getting lots of email. I'll try to clean my PM box soon (use the regular support@DigitalAmp.com for now)... ;)
-Tommy
Tommy,Thanks, Jim. Scan through if you have time, and see Lapsan's (orientalexpress) comments...
Congrats - looks nice! I went a somewhat similar route - Spectron Musician III Mk2's run in mono. Happy to see more high quality choices in the Class D/digital/switching variety surfacing...
Jim
I own a DAC CHERRY amp. It powers my Apogee Cal Sig's. Operation is flawless. The sound repro is the clearest I have ever operated. Over the years I have used mostly tubes, Cary, Conrad Johnson and Manley. Currently I have a few of these amps to compare. Without exception the Dac Cherry reproduces music clearer and with a wider spectrum. As far as Tommys business model is concerned that is up to him. An entreprenur takes risks. If he has to sell at or below cost to get his product noticed, so be it. I am the lucky beneficiary. You can be too. He is a trustworthy intelligent individual. Highly recommended product. :thumb:Thanks for your kind post!
Hello,James,
This is James Darby, publisher of Stereomojo.com. I've looked at your homepage and read the posts here. We have a special area of expertise in "digital" amps per our internationally praised shootout in 2007 of 11 different such amps. We also have a review of the Spectron Musician MkIII pending. A pair was sent to us to use as monoblocks for review. We would be interested in doing a formal review of one of your amps (you may choose). If you are interested, please contact me at:
publisher@stereomojo.com
Thanks
Get an error when I try to sign up for email and hit enter.
We received so many questions about lower power amps over the last few years. The DAC4800A, Cherry, and Cherry PLUS all put out more than 1000W total (500Wpc).
We are now working on a new model, the Cherry jr, with a smaller and lighter transformer. It still puts out plenty of power at 180Wpc into 8 ohms and 360Wpc into 4 ohms. SNR is still more than 110dB. The sound is just as fast and dynamic as Class-A at high levels and and just as smooth and detailed as tubes at low levels. We plan an early adopter special before this model goes up on DigitalAmp.com. Pricing is not set at this point. If you would like to receive news about availability, please sign up for our confidential newsletter here:
http://www.DigitalAmp.com/news.htm
By the way, we have one Cherry demo unit available (not the Cherry PLUS). Thanks, and hope you are all well.
TP into an Electrocompaniet 4.5 preamp.
Waiting on the return of my Bella Purity pre from Bill to try that out. Also am selling the TP and going with a SB and maybe an AudioSector DAC. I canceled the order for the EC ECD1 DAC after seeing how much to mod it.
While using the Archos speakers I have to calm the system down as they are very unforgiving with stock TP's or I assume very analytical DACs. I'm hoping the NOS AS DAC will be the ticket. I usually like more detailed electronics but staying short of tubed DACs this might work.
That 4800 is absolutely the 600 lb. gorilla in the room. Way more instantaneously powerful than the Wyred amps. The 600 hp Corvette that can light the tires up in all gears.
If you don't want to send a PM, just email DACSales@DigitalAmp.com with your first and last name in the message. Thanks again...
Does anybody know how well the 4800a would handle a difficult to drive speaker? I have a pair of Martin Logan CLS IIa electrostats that need something with serious b@ll$ to drive them. :green:
$2000 for a Cherry demo unit with smaller transformer:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69956.new#new
Send a PM if interested.
Thanks!
Tommy, got a question for you.
I've got a pair of SP Tech Timepieces coming, and I understand you have a little experience with SP Techs, yourself, from the NYAR raves.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each scenario:
1) 1 x Cherry (Cherry Plus?)
vs
2) 2 x DAC4800A bridged
So, Tommy, back to the original question - 2 DAC4800A bridged or 1 Cherry?I recommend Cherry or Cherry PLUS over bridged DAC4800As. This is more cost effective and probably plenty of power. You may be surprised since recommending bridged amps would mean selling more amps (!), but we haven't heard from any customers verifying that double bridged amps will work better. I'd like to know if anyone has tried this... Thanks.
Tommy - I just ran across a problem and I have no idea at all if it's caused by your amp or not. Unfortunately, I don't have enough spare parts to trouble shoot it all and I'm not exactly handy with a multimeter.
So I just wanted to ask if you've ever encountered this situation before. One day after...enjoying...my sound system with the dac4800a, I noticed the sound in the left speaker starting to sound like it was cutting out intermittently. After a while, the sound in the left channel just became much much softer than the right side. If I flip the balance all the way over to the left and turn it up, it doesn't sound like the frequency response of the speaker is changed, it's just 50 or more decibels softer than the right side (db figure according to the pc sound card balance interface.) When changing sources, the problem persists.
I'm using a pair of pro audio xlr microphone cables. After a bit of cable swapping, I'm half certain the problem has been narrowed down to either my speaker cables or the amp.So everybody knows, we are now working on this behind the scenes...
We also have a special unit available here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73119.msg688123#msg688123
Plenty of Cherry Amp mentions here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71724.msg685600;topicseen#new
I felt that I maybe went out on a limb a little bit the first time I heard a Cherry, proclaiming it to be the real deal despite not having heard nearly as many different amps as many of you have. There was some sort of rightness to my ears, and a degree of imaging precision that I really found to be amazing.
So each time I hear someone else who was pleased with the Cherry lineup's sound I give a brief "whew" and think that my ears might not be too bad after all!
There's this audiophile phenomenon that when you demo your system to friends (or a LOT of friends like at a Rave) that your system sounds a bit off to you, and jeez you guys should have heard it last week, it was singin' but now there's just something not quite right etc... But I gotta say I've never heard my system sound better than at the Oct. Rave, a sentiment kindly shared to me by many Ravers. Unfortunately I had to return the Krell and the balanced TARA cables and put my Rotel CDP back in so the SQ took a noticable step backwards :( .
Certainly if the Cherry amps were crummy there's no way 20+ really serious audiophiles would have to listen to it at very loud volumes for hours and hours and come away pleased with the overall sound quality.
-Mike
Thanks to all who posted such nice comments recently! :D
Like Robin guessed, there have been several improvements over just the last year, such as:
- new motherboard (lots better about it like larger heat sinks, beefier traces, etc.)
- improved input stage
- bigger power supply caps
- even more powerful transformers
- new "rock solid" chassis with available premium binding posts and XLRs
- improved output filter
Even our shipping containers were improved. We are very proud of all this progress despite a tough 2009. Our customers are smart people willing to give a relatively unknown and small company a chance, and we owe it all to them.
We now have a DAC4800A demo for sale. Price is $999. Thanks.This unit was sold, but we have a few other demos in stock now --- a Cherry PLUS (new version), and regular Cherry (first version with some slight faceplate silkscreen damage)...
Send a Private Message if interested.
Thanks.
I do miss the "Inside the box" pics - maybe you could add them in the future- that 1500(?) watt transformer is sure purdy.
I must have missed the transformer photo. All I see are small angled views of the front panels.
I would suggest at the very least, large higher resolution photos of both the front and back panels, accessed from smaller linked photographs on each product page.
The current front view photos leave me uncertain if it is a painted front panel or a nicely finished anodized one. And I think most people would like to see the back panel photos showing the layout and differences between standard and premium jacks and posts.
Steve
Wow nice site!!! Someone really talented must have designed it for you! ;)
Mike
However, as we grow, we are finding it harder to play outside the normal bounds. Here's one example... We preach that we don't pay for advertising, so formal reviewers won't review our products. Try getting a free "new product" spot in a magazine when there's no chance you'll advertise there. We're waiting for the first reviewer with enough guts to do a review knowing that there's almost no chance that we will advertize in their magazine (in print or online). That'll tell you who the REAL reviewer is. You can't blame the magazine guys for running their business, though. We have plenty of reviews from discerning audiophiles, by the way.We will look into them. Thanks!
We are working to find ways to spread the word about our products without diverting significant money from improvements and/or research and development of new products. We are not a marketing company.
Have you approached "10 Audio" or "Bound For Sound" for a review? Neither accept any advertising.
Cherry vs Cherry Plus - I don't know what's going on inside these units, but there doesn't seem to be a heck of a lot of difference between them spec-wise or power-wise.I wondered this too. Looking at the pictures of the inside of all 4, the motherboard, daughter board, and big caps look pretty much the same, just with bigger transformers and better hardware as you move up the line.
If the Plus uses a new board or whatever, maybe you should move along and bury the cherry and use jus' the plus.
My $0.01
-Mike
We have a poll going...The poll closes Monday morning, so please vote if you haven't already. Thanks.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77070.0
Aren't the used Lavry or Benchmarks going for near $600 now?I'll look for them again. No need for USB. Thanks.
Do you need USB?
Good luck.
-Mike
The poll closes Monday morning, so please vote if you haven't already. Thanks.
This is a test post since the thread has moved. We have our own circle now! Pardon our learning curve...
It was suggested that we start a new thread in our new circle:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77921.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77921.0)
To those that follow this thread: please post a message on the new one! Just a "hello" will do. Be sure to check the "Notify me of replies." box.
We have a list of topics we want to cover this year, so stay tuned. Feel free to suggest your own. For example: tubes versus Class-D. Thanks as always.
There's really no need for anyone posting to check the notification box Tommy as that's automatically done when anyone posts in any thread.
It depends on each person's own notification settings - in your Profile, go to Notifications and there is a checkbox "Turn notification on when you post or reply to a topic". It may be turned on or off for any particular individual.
:)
I recently found a dac 4800A on audiogon for a great price. I had never heard one before but read all the reviews so I decided to try one. I sure am glad I did. This amp is very clear, it really lets you hear all the inner details that you may have been missing. It is also very powerful with great bass midrange and trebel. I would recommend pairing it with a tube preamp for best results. It beat the pants off my musical fidelity amp which was more expensive, it wasn't even a contest. I have had this amp for about 6 months now and plan on having it for a long time, really a great amp.
If your in the market for a Class D amp, I highly recommend you put the DAC4800A on your shortlist of amps to audition. With the Purity preamp fronting the DAC4800A, one of our listeners during testing thought he was listening to a SET amp. He had no clue the DAC4800A was the amplifier driving the speakers.Thanks, Joe.
Tommy doesn't sell through dealers but if he did this would be a Class D amp that I would want to carry!
Thanks, Joe.
We are looking into dealers once again, by the way.
We have a DAC4800A demo in stock now, so send a PM if interested. We also have a few Cherry demos in stock, including an old version unit in excellent condition.
Just too Much Money. I think I would Spend $1200.00 on a Wyred 4 Sound SX-1000 II First.
Just My Opinion, and maybe a little of a Hint. :eyebrows: :D :D :D
Well then Big Red I may have to eat crow. It won't be the first time.
Has anyone compare the DAC4800A to the Cherry? Does both offer the SAME sound signature except more power with the Cherry?This is from today (coincidence):
Since price in bridging 2 DAC4800A is ~1 Cherry ... has anyone decided to bridge 2 DAC4800A instead of 1 Cherry?
Hey Tommy, got to hear the Cherry Plus over the weekend at the NY RAVE, very nice amp :thumb: , crystal clear as always on Emil's Magnaplaner Magnepan's. With over 400 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, I wish Barry had pulled it out for Neil's Acoustic Zen Crecendo's. I think it might have been a nice comparison opportunity with the WiredforSound Integrated.Thanks for the post, Robin!
Cheers,
Robin
Hey Robin, I would have put the Cherry+ into Niel's system, but when asked about it, he didn't seem enthusiastic and I wasn't going to push the subject.
I finally got to hear the Cherry plus in a bigger system and it did sound great. Someday I will get to borrow one!
M
We are looking for a reasonably priced D/A with balanced outputs and a level control --- something readily available. Price target is <$600 street. Any recommendations???More info on this in a recent post here:
Great picture of our new faceplate (thanks, Levi):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80470.msg793180#msg793180 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80470.msg793180#msg793180)
Have you considered making a multi-channel amp to compliment your current amps? I would be interested in a 5 channel amplifier to go with my Cherry Jr.We have considered this, and we have designed several multi-channel amplifier systems over the last decade for other companies, with digital and analog modulation, from 3 to 16 channels. However our next product will be a one channel amp. We already have a few customers waiting for these. One use is for ultimate home theater --- the single channel amp drives the center channel and two stereo amps drive the front/rear. One great combination is a Cherry PLUS for the front, Cherry jr for the rear channels, and Cherry MONO for the center. The gains are all matched. We plan special deals for buyers of multiple amps too (like two MONOs). Thanks for your kind post.
We have considered this, and we have designed several multi-channel amplifier systems over the last decade for other companies, with digital and analog modulation, from 3 to 16 channels. However our next product will be a one channel amp. We already have a few customers waiting for these. One use is for ultimate home theater --- the single channel amp drives the center channel and two stereo amps drive the front/rear. One great combination is a Cherry PLUS for the front, Cherry jr for the rear channels, and Cherry MONO for the center. The gains are all matched. We plan special deals for buyers of multiple amps too (like two MONOs). Thanks for your kind post.
I got the family truckster, baby. Chevy Traverse LTZ. A sweet ride with room for 7, amps or people that is...
Now that's a system I'd like to check out Tommy at a future RAVE. Better bring a van tho. :D
Cheers,
Robin
I was hoping to not have as many amps. :wink: With a 7.1 system with two subwoofers I already have two 1000 watt subwoofer amps. I would need 4 Cherry camps for the other channels to replace my Outlaw Audio 7100. I also have a Buttkicker mounted in the floor joists which has another separate amp.Sweet! I like that idea!
A 3-channel amp would be nice in the lineup. One could buy a 3-channel first for their mains and center. They could then upgrade the mains and move two channels of the 3-channel amp to the surrounds. If they went 7.1, then they could buy another 2-channel amp. Also, there are more people going with active crossovers. A 3-channel Cherry amp would be nice for a 3-way speaker, but it might be a little overkill. :eyebrows:
Yes...
Cherry Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/cherry%20measurements%20v6.pdf
DAC4800A Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC4800A%20standard%20measurements%20v3.pdf
Product page for Cherry (list form specifications):
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm
Product page for DAC4800A (list form specifications):
http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm
Thanks for your post.
I can't find these measurement pdf's anymore on your website. Are they still available? Do you also have measurements of the Cherry Jr.? Thanks.
Tommy,You can choose red or silver on any type of Cherry. However, the black plates will only be available for PLUS or ULTRA versions. Thinking about which plates you want on a pair of MONO ULTRAs???? Thanks.
Are the black (or silver) faceplates specific to certain models?
Like can you get a black that says Cherry JR or Cherry Plus etc. or are they already screened with Mono... etc.?
Thnx
Tommy, what are exactly the differences between the Plus and Ultra versions? I have seen references to 1500W and 1800W but seemingly with regard to transformer rating rather than the actual mono amplifier power (8, 4, or 2 ohms).
Thanks and all the best,
Munosmario
The DAC4800A is back, but going away:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100716.msg1021204#msg1021204
Some interesting stuff here, including comments from Roger A. Modjeski, Frank Van Alstine, and Salis Audio:This thread is now nearing 15,000 hits and more than 30 pages! Recently posted was a graph of Maraschino versus Futterman distortion over frequency. Check it out. Thanks.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131727.0
This thread is now nearing 15,000 hits and more than 30 pages! Recently posted was a graph of Maraschino versus Futterman distortion over frequency. Check it out. Thanks.
Check it out:Minimum donation to show your support is $8 USD. You get a t-shirt for $30. After that, it's amps, amps, amps....
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/mint-maraschino-amp-for-use-with-high-res-players
One week left to NOT miss out on deal-of-a-lifetime type Cherry Amp rewards!Only 3 days left. New rewards added plus a surprise. Don't be kicking yourself later because you passed by thousands in discounts when you had the chance....
http://kck.st/1NWutrj
Seriously, some amps below half price.
Inventory is limited.
Thanks.
Only 3 days left. New rewards added plus a surprise. Don't be kicking yourself later because you passed by thousands in discounts when you had the chance....Less than 48 hrs left. Link just in case:
Less than 48 hrs left. Link just in case:36 HOURS LEFT !!!!
http://kck.st/1NWutrj
63 backers as of a few minutes ago.... We're trying to get to 100, so any support helps us, even $1 pledges!
Exciting stuff (:
Thanks to all who have joined us so far!
If that line was a link, I'm afraid it doesn't work.Michael,
BTW I sent you a PM two days ago. I wonder if perhaps your pm quota is full?
Michael
Tommy,The longest lead time item is the chassis. We expect these in a few weeks. Waiting for a more accurate estimate. Is this Doug? Thanks for your post.
Any idea when the DAC DAC will begin building or shipping ??
Special on In-Line (hangable) Maraschinos coming up! Subscribe to our newsletter to get the head's up:
http://bit.ly/1G8bsxZ
* We have a Stereo Maraschino demo available. Some wear but no tear. No silkscreen. Original board. HALF PRICE! Only one. Contact us if interested, but hurry. If you always wanted that open and elevated Maraschino sound, but thought you couldn't afford it, here's your chance. Contact form here:
http://www.cherryamp.com/contact
Double cap In-Line Hanging Maraschinos! We figured out a way to install extra caps in our new "Hanging Maraschino Cherry" amplifiers! We can also change the LEDs to blue (red is standard).
* We have a Stereo Maraschino demo available. Some wear but no tear. No silkscreen. Original board. HALF PRICE! Only one. Contact us if interested, but hurry. If you always wanted that open and elevated Maraschino sound, but thought you couldn't afford it, here's your chance. Contact form here:
http://www.cherryamp.com/contact
UP FOR GRABS ! Demo 48V Maraschino Cherry pair with WBT upgrade. Latest hardware. Chipped corner on the granite block of one channel. Willing to let them go at a discount. Email Support@DigitalAmp.com.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155590)
I too love the idea of the Megaschino retrofit into the Classic Cherry amps. I just took delivery of the last big Cherry Chassis amp that Tommy built for me, which I call a Super Cherry with a 1800W transformer and Cardas binding posts ... Awesome and still running in.Yes, we're bringing the big steel chassis back! Big transformers, big caps, solid, thick faceplate, heavy, and now with the speed and clarity of Maraschino.... Thanks for your kind post (:
That I have household obligations at present (new roof) coming May 4th or I would've jumped at the Megaschino mother board retrofit pains me to no end ... hopefully I can get this upgrade done in the near future as I have listened to the 48V Maraschinos on my Acoustat 1100 and they were quite amazing thru them! Basically my system craves big power hence my opting for my Super Cherry.
Tommy are we seeing a rebirth of the big chassis in the new Megaschino amps ??? Keep pushing the envelope Sir!
A friend sent me this message....We'll soon be down to 24 hours left....
(Regarding the MEGAschino motherboard upgrade for Classic Cherry)
"I also wish to let you know how much I respect the fact that you are offering retrofits to the customers of your Classic Cherries. In a society of disposable everything, it is the rarest of rare to find someone willing to put in the effort to breathe new life into well-used, well-loved products."
Check the rewards to see a very special surprise that we just added:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/maraschino-video-series
I hear all this stuff about how Zu speakers JUST ROCK!! with a few triode etc. watts. I don't know...Every time I've heard a Zu hooked up to a megawatt Cherry the performance jumped significantly.
A great amp not only communicates more (meaning all) information to the speaker... it also regulates the speakers motion in a very controlled fashion, no matter how challenging the load.
totally disagree - with all due respect - and i love my maraschino stereo amp - In my experience - the speakers communicate - the speakers make the amp sound great
its been never the amp - its always the speakers!
I'm having difficulty following your logic. How do speakers make an amp sound great? Do speakers make preamps sound great, too? What about DACs, transports, interconnects, power cords, and power conditioners?
in my experience - ive tried many dacs - transports - interconnects - power conditioners -amps - preamps - up to $5000 - and when i change speakers they have made the greatest inpact
sorry - thats my experience
AmpDesigner 333Dennis,
I like your philosophy and hope you will succeed in your creative venture! And when you do, don't forget that customer service is one of the pillars to a successful audio business! Krell started as a backyard project to beat the Big Boys and succeeded to become one of the most successful audio brands but they forgot about their customers once they tasted the dizzy heights of success! I had an experience with their customer service and speak from the perspective of my experience.
I know how hard it is to convince the consumer that you have a great product in hand, beyond the marketing hyperbole!
Best Regards
Dennis
Tommy, it's always enriching to see someone thrive. And looking back as you suggested, really brings it home. Nice work and be proud. :DThanks for your kind words. Intelligent people like you see beyond the marketing and understand true value. Thanks also for taking the time to check out my modified "first post" (original version included) and posting your thoughts here!
What.... ....does Digital Amplifier Company consider reasonable or acceptable in Class-D amplifiers?The higher the better. Class-D is just a topology. What I (representing Digital Amp Co) consider "reasonable or acceptable" is not based on 1W. It's based on max output of the amp, and it's 110dB or more for anything that's considered a "high performance" amplifier. Thanks again.
The reverse also works, so if you know SNR at 1W, you can calculate it for rated power. Almost every amp manufacturer states SNR at rated power, by the way. Thanks.
This weekend is the last one for our new Kickstarter. Time to get involved if you haven't already. Our backers provide the funds for new product development and get rewarded generously as a result.Last full day for the program is this Sunday, the 25th. Thanks again.
Here's the link (please help us spread the word by posting this link on social media):
http://kck.st/2CH4sLB
We also added a special new reward today. It's an "only one available" pair of amps. See if you can spot it (:
Thanks as always!
SNR at 1W can be calculated from SNR at rated power. This is not just for Cherry Amplifier (R) products, but for any amplifier.
If we know the signal level and the SNR, we can calculate the noise level. This is typically A-weighted, by the way, but not important to the math....
SNR is the ratio of signal to noise, or signal/noise. These are voltage levels. Units must match, and we use volts. SNR = 20 * log(signal/noise). Since there is more signal than noise, SNR is positive. If it were noise/signal, the result would be negative, due to the log function.
We start by reversing the log function to get the actual ratio in straight scalar units (no units, actually). So, we're "un-doing the dB", going from exponential scale to linear scale.
Let's say SNR is 120dB (MEGAschino, Maraschino). This means 6 = log (x), x being SNR as a linear scalar. 10^6 is 1,000,000. So, if the signal is 1V, the noise would be 1/1,000,000 V, or 1uV.
Let's also say the rated power is 400W into 4 ohms (KING Maraschino). Power is V^2/R in this case, so V = sqrt(1600V^2) = 40V. So, in this case, noise is 40uV.
Now, what is it at 1W (into 4 ohms)? Well, we know the noise voltage, and 1W is sqrt(4V^2) = 2V, so SNR = 20 * (2V/40uV) = 94dB.
The reverse also works, so if you know SNR at 1W, you can calculate it for rated power. Almost every amp manufacturer states SNR at rated power, by the way. Thanks.
-Tommy O
SNR calculation. Easy and fast.
400 watts/4 Ohms -> SNR: 120dB. V=40v
with 1 watts/4 Ohms V=2v
-> 120dB - 20log(40v/2v) = 120dB - 26dB = 94 dB
to compare
1 watts/8 Ohms -> 91 dB
With class AB, 91 dB is very good. With class D is only good, I think.
Although our specifications are admirable, they only tell part of the story. I'm guessing you've never HEARD a Cherry Amplifier (R)....
SNR calculation. Easy and fast.
400 watts/4 Ohms -> SNR: 120dB. V=40v
with 1 watts/4 Ohms V=2v
-> 120dB - 20log(40v/2v) = 120dB - 26dB = 94 dB
to compare
1 watts/8 Ohms -> 91 dB
With class AB, 91 dB is very good. With class D is only good, I think.
I have nothing against this amplifier. For example, the efficiency of 95% giving so much power is an engineering prodigy.We are discussing a review with Stereophile, but since we don't advertise there, it might be a while. Thank for your kind post.
The problem is in the other brands that buy modules designed by others and spoil the specifications and not by little.
And then there are revisions in Stereophile and they are silent in the face of the obvious.
We are discussing a review with Stereophile, but since we don't advertise there, it might be a while. Thank for your kind post.
Tom Goetz sent a pair of speakers and bought an ad, never got one review. Too much politics.There must be more to this than stated here.
There must be more to this than stated here.
1. Reviewers must review any products that they accept for review. (That does not include unsolicited submissions.)
2. Buying an ad is not relevant.
1. Gordon Holt made a mock-up review and sent it to Tom Goetz damning his speakers, but Sterophile never published that review. The Goetz was much better than the Vandersteen 2's or the Thiel speakers. I use to sell all three. But that was back in the 80's, it may not be so true today.Well, that antedates my tenure and JGH ain't around to explain.
2.Goetz did buy an ad, so that part maybe true.He may have believed that it was relevant but, afaik, it is not so today.
Here’s a good deal on an STM:Please post a photo. How would you characterize the sound? Thanks.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160156.msg1708953#new
We have officially launched our mini Cherry Kickstarter !!
Here's the link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/cherry-mini-megaschino-tm-high-performance-stereo
Amazing deals as rewards.
We will be making an announcement through this project soon. A very special surprise, but something that our customers have been requesting for years.
The mini Cherry is a stereo amplifier capable of 400Wpc into 4Ω. It features that refined Cherry Sound!
Email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com if you want the full product/price list. We can customize any combination of items.
Thanks for taking a look, and please let us know what you think!
Best Regards,
Tommy O / Founder
Digital Amp Co
CherryAmp.com
This weekend only! Here's a great reason to support our development efforts:This is still active until midnight Eastern Time....
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162272.0
Last weekend for our 6th Kickstarter!Well, we finished up last week, 668% of our goal !! Thanks again to our loyal and generous BACKERS (:
Some new rewards added today and FULL PRICE LIST here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162256.msg1730172#msg1730172
We will be at AXPONA powering a potentially record breaking surround sound system! Details here:Check the thread -- 2-channel demos will be played as well using the Cherry MEGA MK2 MONOs (these have 1800W transformers and quad cap upgrades as well), driving JTR 212RTs.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163293.0
Check out our massive pre-summer sale!Sold out of ILMs at the moment. We do have a few desktop Maraschinos left as well as this deal on DACs:
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/-enter-subject-here-.html?soid=1101188089143&aid=FU-pLlkxB6c
#Sound #Stereo #MEGAschino #DAC #DACDAC #CherryDACDAC #CherryAmp #CherryMaraschino #CherryMEGA #MaraschinoCherry #SurroundSound #Audio #HomeAudio #Amplifiers #DigitalAmpCo #HighEndAudio #miniCherry #Cherry5ch #cherry5 #5CHerry #4CHerry #3CHerry #2CHerry #HomeTheater #ExtremeAudio
Shunyata Venom HC power cord
I dont think you should base your final conclusions on such a budget PC. Give a true audiophile PC a try like Petes Triode Wire Labs then draw conclusions. Just saying...........Properly designed equipment is much less sensitive to cable selection. For power cords, it's about PSRR. We recommend spending no more than $100 for any cable (assuming 10 feet or less) unless you are buying it for the looks. Nothing wrong with wanting cool looking stuff! Just a general rule of thumb.
Nick 77.....My thought is that the Shunyata is a $300 wire....the Triodes seem to run anywhere from $500-1200...I'm thinking that from an overall "sound of my system" standpoint, I'd be much better off to spend the $$$ on the DACDAC or the new preamp when it comes out
Tommy,Ron,
I'm glad that the preamp is still in the works....Going with the analog outputs is a good decision...otherwise, its more difficult to connect to a sub.
Would also suggest, if possible, to have the voltage output of the balanced and the RCAs be the same...why....because assume that the balanced outputs are 4v and i'm running those to my 2Cherry (which I absolutely love)....and then assume the RCA outputs are 2v and I'm running those to my sub....even though the sub has an input gain control...getting the overall balance between the mains and the sub is much easier if the output voltages match. (or if it is simpler, maybe just go with double balanced outputs and include the neutrik balanced/rca adapters)
I hope this ship hasn't already sailed...but maybe one pair of analog inputs should be included for all the turntable/analog people....
One final thing....if possible, please offer a remote...not having one will likely turn away customers....why...because those of us that use a preamp probably have a number of things input into the preamp and we want it to be master control.
Thanks for listening.
Ron,
You’re on. ALL OF IT !! Thanks (:
-Tommy O
Getting ready for our Winter Sale, including this pair of Golden Cherry Monoblocks:We're already running out of some items!
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166699.0
Email Support@DigitalAmp.com for the preliminary price list....
There is something magical in these Cherries, they just seem to get out of the way of music-soft or played loudly. They are there.....but not there either.
We are open.
WE LOVE OUR CUSTOMERS !!
Stay safe and healthy, everyone (:
Email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com if you're interested in, or would like to show your support for, Digital Amplifier Company, or the Cherry Amplifier® Brand. Thanks for your continued support.
And your customers LOVE you too Tommy!Thanks for your heartwarming message! I’m honored to have you as a customer (:
Sitting here in musical bliss because of your Golden Cherries! I work from home and my two channel system is in my office. Well...... when you are done with your work day and don't want to leave work/the office because you're enjoying the music, well..... that says a lot! :D
The late nights and skipped meals, making sure we get state of the art audio equipment from you! Your efforts are much appreciated!
Avs,
What speakers are you using with your new Cherry amps?
Waiting up to three months is out of the question so I went for the .7 version.
I’ll sell you my LRS’s tomorrow. :D
Even though the .7 is on the way, perhaps I should entertain that idea? What’s your next move?
Even though the .7 is on the way, perhaps I should entertain that idea? What’s your next move?
Even though the .7 is on the way, perhaps I should entertain that idea? What’s your next move?
I don’t know how much difference there is between the two models but I won’t entertain the idea of anything bigger than .7 in my small room. I suppose I could sell the .7 and buy your LRS... What color and trim package are they?
I'm already talking to the HI-FI shop I got them from and they'll give me a full refund towards the 1.7i's.Love my 1.7i speakers! Not for “huge bass”, but so “silky”.
Love my 1.7i speakers! Not for “huge bass”, but so “silky”.
I love my LRS's and with the new GC's, I am actually very pleased with the bass. Tigjt, fast, controlled, not sloppy or boomy at all. But no matter how good the bass is, they still need help below 60hz. A lot of help. And they are not dynamic in the bass department. No visceral punch or kick to kick drums. Four 8's will definitely change that!How do you connect the subs? They look great, by the way. How’s the sound with the LRSs and subs working together? Thanks.
How do you connect the subs? They look great, by the way. How’s the sound with the LRSs and subs working together? Thanks.
Love my 1.7i speakers! Not for “huge bass”, but so “silky”.
Your amps have always gotten seriously great feedback. You are a really great designer. I hope you continue to make your amps better and better.Thanks for the compliment! I'm honored to have this said about my work (:
Hello, I have the opportunity to buy the used Desktop Maraschino 36v DTM with 60v power supply. Generally known that Cherry amps are "dead" quiet, but I read somewhere that options with a more powerful power supply unit may have some background noise with high sensitivity speakers. I own 96db sensitivity loudspeakers. Could I have any problem with background noise through my loudspeakers with 60v power supply Maraschinos?The source itself needs to be quiet to take advantage of the Maraschino’s 118dB SNR. I use JTR 210RTs (95dB sensitivity) frequently, and they are super quiet at idle. The Maraschinos are usually driven by a Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS (124dB SNR) or DAC DAC 2 HS (130dB SNR). So, no worries with your system assuming a quiet source.
I have 3 way active speakers (18inch 100db 45-300hz, 8inch mid 300-2.8k 97db, ribbon tweeter 95db).I would choose option 2 and put the amps close to the speakers (short speaker cables) -- like monoblocks, which these will essentially be.
Option 1 :
- x-2 for bass (45hz+)
- x-4 for mids and highs
Option 2:
- x-3 for the left speaker
- x-3 for the right speaker
It's the same price.
X-3 have triple rail so the mids/highs can have it. Let me the possibility to hide the amp behind my open baffle (while they are at 45 inch from the wall).
Considering my amplified subwoofers take care 45hz- (18db/oct) and the 18inch do 45hz+ 18db/oct do you think Option 1 is better than Option 2 ?
I tend to prefer Option 2 to have amp very close to the speakers.
According to web site,As mentioned in response to your similar comment on the DAC DAC 3 Kickstarter thread, the enclosure design was modified, and new 3-CHerry amps have triple rail caps. Thanks for catching the outdated information on our web site.
Double rail cap on 3-CHerry, 4-CHerry, and 5-CHerry
Kickstarter state 3-cherry as triple rail.
Who tell the truth ? 8-)
Quick Update on our DAC DAC 3 Kickstarter: Currently at 266% with 69 HOURS left!!We did it!! Thanks to our 26 backers 🙂
The link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitalampco/cherry-dac-dac-3
Only 22 hours left on the MEGAschino MK2 Stereo LC offer detailed here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172243.msg1823765#msg1823765