Any owners of the VR2's still out there?

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Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #20 on: 3 Oct 2017, 05:26 am »
After reading some comments on AudioCircle about using 'By-Wire' speaker cable for the tweeters I decided to try it to see if it might improve the overall sound/mids & top end of the VR-2's. 
I had on hand some Monster Cable XP-HP speaker cable.  Its a Precision Stranded, Time Correct with a Magnetic Flux Tube, speaker cable that "Monster" made some time ago and is still well respected.
The Amp I am using is a new product from PS Audio and is called 'Stellar S 300' stereo amp and one of the features is that it has 2 sets of speaker terminal connections at the Amp just for this reason. (check it out on their website)
I connected one cable to each side and removed the VR 2's jumper plates.

I first just let the music server/system run at low volume to break in the cables.
The following day I began my listing test. 
Wow, was I surprised!...... 
The smoothness of the high end was a very noticeable improvement.  I was very pleased at how much better the whole speaker sounded from top to bottom.   I sometimes come from the school that if one sounds good then perhaps twice will sound even better...... Ha!
So I doubled up and twisted the exposed ends together and went through another break in process before I started any critical listening.

Holly Smokes Batman, it was more then just good, it was totally 'amazing'......

The speaker became even more transparent and the top end just floated off into space.  All the harshness disappeared. (which I was surprised, but it just goes to show that there are improvements to be made in by-wiring the VR 2's)
In short I was 'blown-away' with how much better my whole system sounded.  The sound was so much more detailed and clearer and I was able to play it louder without any fatigue of harshness or it sounding overly loud in anyway.  Even at the prior listening volume level, the newly rewired system now has given me permission 'sonically' to turn up the gain as it were, now that the noise and distortion has disappeared to the point which is allowing me to more fully immerse myself in hearing the music past the same volume number as before.  In other words, the previous distortion has now vanished and the newly-found inner detail and transparency has improved 'dramatically.'  Even the bottom end was improved but not as much as the mids and highs.

All I can say it that if you have not tried the By-Wire concept then you are missing something grand.
As it stands right now, I have no plans to ever return to a single speaker cable.

My only question and curiosity is, would I get even more improvements with a higher quality cable?
I am very tempted to try out some higher performance cables but I also wonder if it might be overkill given that we are talking about the tweeter and the wires I am using are very respectable and have very good performance in their own right and were designed as a full frequency speaker cable.

I have included a picture of the back side so you can see the wiring. Right now its not very tidy but that's because I am still experimenting with the By-Wire issue.  Plus if I get another cable, it would change and once I settle on the cable of choice I will tidy things up accordingly.
I look forward to your thoughts and comments.


« Last Edit: 6 Oct 2017, 09:24 pm by Sandrock »

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #21 on: 8 Nov 2017, 12:42 am »
I thought that I would give you guys an up-date as to how things are proceeding with my VR-2 and By-Wire changes.
This is the third wire change using upgraded wire each time.  I decided to rummage through my wire box and came across a forgotten a 6ft pair of Monster M-1000 '4 conductor' speaker wire.

I re trimmed the ends and used some Monster cable Banana plugs to connect the ends.
I again gave the new wire some break-in time before any critical listening began.
So it was immediate, I heard another improvement in the overall sound quality.
Especially with the top end.
It was even more open and transparent.
The mid/center channel popped out even more, and the bottom end seemed to be a slight bit better.
Where the action was, was in the mids and top end.
Everything sounded cleaner clearer
and with much less distortion and overall noise.
The sound was much clearer and more defined.
Less fatiguing to the point that I listened for the best part of a cold Monday afternoon. Perhaps 6 hours total.
Wow, I can't speak high enough of how much better and involving the sound is.
So to answer my own question, "would better speaker wire sound better"? the answer is absolutely YES!
I have included a picture of how the back of the speaker looks with the new M-1000 speaker wire in place.

Guys, you are truly missing the boat if you don't By-Wire your VR-2's
It is a real 'game-changer' for sure.


Bill T

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #22 on: 20 Nov 2017, 07:42 pm »
I gave the bi wire a try. I do not have the great cables needed I guess. The results were not really any better than with a single wire connection. I will have to invest in better wire and try it again.

Love the VR2s anyway. and my VR1s. What they do well is wonderful and what they do wrong is fairly minor. I have had many types and brands of speakers but the VS will be long term for me.

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #23 on: 23 Nov 2017, 01:29 am »
Hello Bill T, as I mentioned in my previous posts, "WIRES" do make a difference.  For me, stepping up to a higher quality speaker wire was very beneficial and I could immediately hear the improvement in sonic performance.
Perhaps as you mentioned, you might need to use a "higher-quality" speaker wire to hear those improvements!
Did you take the coupling plate out between the two speaker connectors?  Just wondering.......
However I would suggest that using better quality speaker wire is the way to go.
Good luck with your chase for better sound. 
And please keep us informed as to your progress.

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #24 on: 13 Dec 2017, 02:31 am »
I am just wondering if there is anyone who might of tried the 'By-wire" improvement with their VR-2's?
I have not heard back from others on this thread about 'By-wiring' their VR-2 speakers.
Is there anyone who would like to respond or comment on their VR-2's etc?
I look forward to hearing from you.....

rich58b

Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #25 on: 17 Dec 2017, 01:06 am »
Sandrock,
I never bi-wired my VR2's, but by chance ran across the Von Schweikert VR2 Owners Manual the other day. (I sold my VR2's a few years ago, replaced with VR 33's.) The manual says this: "The best sound staging and transparency from the VR-2 results from bi-wiring the speakers, but if a bi-wire set of cables is not initially available, use the supplied jumper plates. Connect the cables to the upper binding posts for best sound quality."
If you'd like, I'd be happy to send you this manual. PM me your address, and I'll mail it.
Rich

SundayNiagara

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #26 on: 17 Dec 2017, 07:53 pm »
I am just wondering if there is anyone who might of tried the 'By-wire" improvement with their VR-2's?
I have not heard back from others on this thread about 'By-wiring' their VR-2 speakers.
Is there anyone who would like to respond or comment on their VR-2's etc?
I look forward to hearing from you.....

Why don't you borrow a pair of cables from a store, take them home and try them?

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #27 on: 18 Dec 2017, 07:18 pm »
Rich58B

PM Sent
Thanks
Ian

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #28 on: 29 Mar 2018, 01:39 am »
Back at the beginning of October last year I posted my findings about 'BI-Wiring' my VR-2's and what a great improvement it made to the sound, I even included some pictures along with the text.

However, I have now moved on to further 'tweaking' my VR-2's and wanted to share with you where I now stand with regards to what I have done to them and how it has affected the speakers performance.

When I first purchased the Von's I was told that the cavity at the bottom of each speaker can be used for either dry-sand of lead-shot. 
I decided to go down the lead-shot route and I was also told that I should not fill the cavity all the way up as it made the speaker to heavy to move/walk if one was using spikes as it would apply to much weight to one corner and possibly end up breaking the plinth.
So I complied and filled the cavity up maybe l little over half.
It worked out well and I was happy for a long while.

Until the present, and now wanting to get more out of the Von's and thinking about it, I decided to do three different Mods/tweaks to the VR-2's.

I need to explain that my listening room has a wood floor with a crawl space underneath.
To cope with the less then solid floor, I decided to start with calming down the top of the speaker to allow the tweeter to work its magic without the cabinet resinating or vibrating.

The first mod I did was to select some nice fabric material and make a bag/pouch almost the size of the top of the cabinet.
I then purchased 25 lbs of lead-shot then divided it in half and filled 4 Ziploc Baggies to insert into each of the 2 pouches.
WOW, what an incredible improvement it made! 
Now the tweeter sounds so much cleaner and clearer.
The prior distortion/coloration/blurriness has been lifted!!! 
I was very nicely surprised. 
In fact given the flooring issue, I thought it might be even better if I increased the lead-shot in the pouch by another 10 lbs. 
Again, not as much of an improvement but still noticeable.

My second tweak was to fill the bottom cavity all the way up with lead-shot.
I had previously found the super-sweet-spot for the speaker location in the room, so the extra weight was of no concern. 
Again, WOW!
But this time it was the bass that went deeper and had more focus and clarity.
The bottom end tightened up like there was no tomorrow! 
All I can say is "BIG" difference sonically. 

Finally to put it all together, I purchased some "Out Riggers" out of Eugene, Oregon. Paul is the owner and is very helpful and answered all my questions so I could purchase the right product for my needs. 
Check out their website. And again, all so very reasonable.

I got them a little bit wider so it would give more stability to the tall and slender speakers. 
After tightening the knobs at each corner the speaker became rock solid and put everything on a whole another plain.
I swear they are not the same pair of speakers I started out with.
It has make that much improvement.
Check out the pictures and see the tweaks I have done and all for not a lot of money either.

I can very strongly encourage you to try at least one of my tweaks, if not do all 3 of them and be
totally blown away.















« Last Edit: 2 Apr 2018, 10:42 pm by Sandrock »

es347

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #29 on: 30 Mar 2018, 04:02 pm »
..I’ve done similar tweaks to my VR5 Anniversaries with pretty dramatic results



..atop the M/T cabinet I’ve added about 30# in the form of two granite slabs and a diving brick.  The granite rests on 1/4” neoprene..



..I dressed up the diving brick with a custom made leather cover



..I replaced the little rubber cones between cabinets with 1/2” sorbothane pucks



..I installed CMS Rize Footers and they sit on granite slabs...my floor is wood glued down on concrete

..the result of these tweaks was a pretty dramatic improvement in resolution, expanded soundstage and imaging...everything actually.  I am a very happy camper..





Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #30 on: 31 Mar 2018, 04:36 am »
Wow, es347 all that you have done to your Von's would really do the job and having a concrete floor is the best.
I agree that your 'resolution, expanded soundstage and imaging would be greatly improved'. 
It is the way to go to get the best sound out of the speakers no matter what brand or model.
The more solid one can make the speakers the clearer the sound will be.
Thanks for the pictures.

Delacroix

Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #31 on: 5 Apr 2018, 03:13 pm »
Hum...all that extra weight on the top of the speakers, interesting idea..but it would mess with my piling the LPs I'm spinning up there during a session as I'm too lazy to file each one every time I swap records :)

es347

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #32 on: 5 Apr 2018, 04:24 pm »
Hum...all that extra weight on the top of the speakers, interesting idea..but it would mess with my piling the LPs I'm spinning up there during a session as I'm too lazy to file each one every time I swap records :)

..that’s certainly an issue Patrick

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #33 on: 5 Apr 2018, 04:37 pm »
I am thinking to get around your dilemma, I might suggest that you could use a different weight other then a bag 'OR' stack your spinners in another location, perhaps closer to your TT!
Could that possibly solve your locational issue with the vinyl?

Just a thought or musing on my part........
Happy listening, my friend!

However I will say again, 'what a fantastic sonic improvement it has made to the VR-2's from top to bottom and the new-found clarity and transparency is incredible'.

The mods that I have now done to the speakers has changed the sound from just OK to WOW as in 'they can not be the same pair of VR-2'.

Delacroix

Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #34 on: 6 Apr 2018, 02:17 pm »
Am intrigued enough to give something like this a try...I'll look for something cheap and heavy just to give it a listen and if I hear what you are both hearing, I'll consider further. Got to love cheap and effective!

es347

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #35 on: 6 Apr 2018, 03:51 pm »
Am intrigued enough to give something like this a try...I'll look for something cheap and heavy just to give it a listen and if I hear what you are both hearing, I'll consider further. Got to love cheap and effective!

..anything that can further deaden the cabinets will improve sonics at least it sure did here

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #36 on: 8 Apr 2018, 02:22 am »
That is the biggest thing that anyone can/should do to their speakers is to 'deaden' the cabinet box as much as possible.
If the drivers do not move then the sound they produce will be a lot clearer and cleaner and will track the intended music with more accuracy and sonic purity.
What I did was nothing more then a quick and inexpensive fix for the cabinet to stop resinating or moving which in turn allows the drivers to give out with a more pure and accurate sound.

Bottom line, is that I am extremely pleased in the final outcome and in the way the VR-2's now sound!
Worth all the effort and money spent.

If you own a pair of VR-2's or any speaker for that matter, then I implore you to do as I have outlined to your speakers and take the sound to a much higher level of enjoyment.

SundayNiagara

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #37 on: 8 Apr 2018, 01:53 pm »
Can you say, VPI "Magic Brick?" It works. :)

Sandrock

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #38 on: 8 Apr 2018, 06:38 pm »
Yep, they do work!

However what VPI does is for the 'electrical end' of the sound system.
My 'tweaks' in this case are strictly for the speaker-end of the chain.

I have just started using some weight on my front-end along with some sorbothane feet under both the amp and preamp.
I am not sure I can categorically hear the sonic improvements, but I believe that it can not hurt and if anything will help improve the overall sound.

And again, it does not cost a lot of money to do.

Happy listening my friends.

SundayNiagara

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Re: Any owners of the VR2's still out there?
« Reply #39 on: 9 Apr 2018, 12:16 am »
Yep, they do work!

However what VPI does is for the 'electrical end' of the sound system.
My 'tweaks' in this case are strictly for the speaker-end of the chain.

I have just started using some weight on my front-end along with some sorbothane feet under both the amp and preamp.
I am not sure I can categorically hear the sonic improvements, but I believe that it can not hurt and if anything will help improve the overall sound.

And again, it does not cost a lot of money to do.

Happy listening my friends.

Set the brick on top of the speaker.