AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Daedalus Audio => Topic started by: Will2 on 1 Jun 2010, 01:16 am
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Hi,
I have some Daedalus speakers and I'm looking for speaker cable recommendations - was corresponding with Lou and he kindly offered that I could post here for some advice - wondering if anyone here has any experience they would be willing to share. I'm driving them with the Dodd battery amp and buffer and a Twisted Pear Buffalo32s DAC (run off battery). With what I have now I feel I'm getting great, natural tone but missing a notable degree of detail. I'm hoping to watch the pennies - something sub-$400 - and happy to go used (I'm patient).
Cheers
Will
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I tried about six different speaker cables for my DA 1.1's. The best I found were the Audio Note Lexus cables which go for about $800 for three meters. Occasionally, they are available used on Audiogon for less. These cables are great. Much better than cables I tried that were much more expensive.
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I have'nt tried many cables yet with my Da-RMa's, but I am very pleased with the the Morrow audio SP4's, I have used from the start. Have a look at his web site or on Audiogon. He gives a 60 dat money back trial programme, has a half price sale on at the moment and always has some returns or ex dem cables available
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Reality Cables sounded good and a nice step up are Bolder Cables.
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Thanks for the pointers guys. I like the Straley recommendation - I use them in another system and they work really well in that but they seem to lack in detail with the Daedalus speakers. I'm going to check out all of the suggestions you've made - thanks - but I'm going to have to rely on "data" more than "audition" given that I live in Bermuda and have to pay 22.25% import duty so trial and error is kind of expensive. Can any of you help me identify what properties are most likely to make for good synergy - or doesn't it work that way?
Cheers
Will
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Will
Yes import duty is a killer, I pay about the same to the UK. For those cables sent back after a trial period, I believe you can claim a rebate on the duty, but I may be wrong. The recommendations suggest a good match to the speakers, not necessarily with the amp at the other end of the wire
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What model Daedalus speakers do you have?
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I have the DA-RMa's and my in-laws have the Ulysses. I'm looking for cable for the Ulysses right now - but I know this hobby, the DA-RMa's might be next in line :roll:
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I can't recommend the DH Labs Q-10 enough.
http://silversonic.com/docs/products/Q10.html
If you're a diy guy you can buy bulk and terminate yourself.
Bulk pricing here http://silversonic.com/docs/prices.html#Bulk
Get some buddies together and split the cost. I replaced a speaker cable 30x the cost in my system. No joke!
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I can't recommend the DH Labs Q-10 enough.
http://silversonic.com/docs/products/Q10.html
If you're a diy guy you can buy bulk and terminate yourself.
Bulk pricing here http://silversonic.com/docs/prices.html#Bulk
Get some buddies together and split the cost. They replaced a speaker cable 30x the cost in my system. No joke!
Can I ask what was the cable that they replaced?
Thx!
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Can I ask what was the cable that they replaced?
Thx!
Oops. I corrected my grammar above. It's not they it's I.
I would rather not get into a brand debate. It was much more expensive as I stated though. I've learned that cost doesn't always equal performance.
YMMV
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Now that I think about it, i'm sorry I asked since I do not like to mention brands that don't live up to there cost/performance ratio either.
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Will:
I have 2 pairs of Empirical Design 213 Speaker cables that are about to go up for sale. I learned about these from Lou Hinkley at Daedalus - I believe he is a dealer and recommends these as an affordable and great sounding cable. I've heard the DA-1's and Ulysses with these cables and the sound was pretty impressive.
http://www.empiricaldesign.net/speaker-cables.html
If you are interested, I will be asking $250 per pair (half the price of new). One pair is 6' with spade-spade. The other is 6' with spade-banana. I also have two sets of Empirical Design I/C's. You can PM me if interested.
Charles
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I am using Synergistic Research Alpha Quad with Active Shielding. My speaker run is 23' and this is an affordable cable with great sound, especially for the $$$. The 23' pair was about $730 including hi quality banana plugs. I was not interested in spending more than a grand on speaker cables and found this cable to be a very good performer for the $$$.
Lou has heard my system playing both vinyl and CDs and can give you his impression of these cables.
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I'm hoping that more Daedalus owners will offer their experiences with cables.
One thing I've noticed is that some of the cables which work with the original DA-1 don't tend to have the clarity and phase coherence that will allow the current speaker models to perform at their best, unfortunately this includes most of the 'affordable' cables including some mentioned already...
my recommendation for 'affordable' speaker cables is still the Bolder Cables, while not inexpensive at $600 8ft pair, they are a huge improvement over cables that you will pay a couple hundred less for.
I know there are other really good cables in that price range and I'd like to hear more discussion of them.
thanks for the input ,
lou
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As requested, I am a bit shocked to find I have collected 4 sets of speaker cables, I will try and grade below. Some are pretty obscure and not much use to you. Three sets have not in recent use, although run in, this may effect performance against my current cable Morrow SP4. the cables connect an Emille K40 tube amp and my Da-R Ma's. I ran a set of comparisons over the last few days and this is the result, the best is arbitrarily given a score of 10;
10 Morrow SP4, subjectively louder than the others, reflecting it's stronger dynamics, neutral, detailed, good imaging and soundstage, perhaps a tad forward and bright, in comparison to some of the others.
9 Silver Arrow cable, a small UK manufacturer, perhaps more neutral than the Morrow, but lacking a little in sparkle and dynamics. Only marginally behind the Morrow and if warmed up over a time, might be equal
8 Triangle Silver Ghost OFC cable, used by Triangle for internal wiring of it's top range Magellan speakers. Similar to Silver Arrow, neutral, good detail. Good allrounder. A little behind the Silver Arrow
6 Ridge Street Poiema 2 cables. Still good but a clear step behind, in this setup, more veiled, with less detail and dynamics
Interestingly, putting back in the Walker Audio HDL lnks on the speaker terminals, made a it more difference than I found with the first 3 cables. I believe they are a Zobel circuit, whatever that is
David
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I can't recommend the DH Labs Q-10 enough.
http://silversonic.com/docs/products/Q10.html
If you're a diy guy you can buy bulk and terminate yourself.
Bulk pricing here http://silversonic.com/docs/prices.html#Bulk
Get some buddies together and split the cost. I replaced a speaker cable 30x the cost in my system. No joke!
Just tried them , good bass but on the Ulysses the top end was too lean/bright, not nearly as musical as the Kimber8tc (surprise cable) thrown into the loaner box from cable co. I will say this experiment was a ear opener since I just used cheap monster cable (stupid me). DH labs bettered those of course but with very neutral amps and Daedalus speakers, jus't dont hear good synergy w/these.
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Just tried them , good bass but on the Ulysses the top end was too lean/bright, not nearly as musical as the Kimber8tc (surprise cable) thrown into the loaner box from cable co. I will say this experiment was a ear opener since I just used cheap monster cable (stupid me). DH labs bettered those of course but with very neutral amps and Daedalus speakers, jus't dont hear good synergy w/these.
Berto,
So, you enjoyed the Kimber 8tc's??? I would love to hear more of what you thought of this combo since that is what I will be starting with in a few weeks...
~J
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Berto,
So, you enjoyed the Kimber 8tc's??? I would love to hear more of what you thought of this combo since that is what I will be starting with in a few weeks...
~J
Hi Jriggy,
Yes am enjoying them currently. I wish I could say I tried 10 or even 5 others but in reality they only beat my cheap copper Monster and loaner DH labs cables.
Much more balanced from top to bottom, more musical and alot more involving then the other two lesser cables. This is with my Ulysses AP x-over option. I think you will be happy if you don't try better ones, since i'm really enjoying my system more then ever.
Spoke to Lou yesteday and ordered a pair of Dynamic Design SC's. (although the Kimbers will be long gone by then to A/B). I don't wish to keep A/B'ing SC's, just want to enjoy the music!
Lou and a few of his customers all seem to agree these are great cables and with my resolving OTLs , I'd be foolish to cut corners now.
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On a whim, I bought a set of what can be considered, Reference Cables, at a very reduced second hand price. They were Virtual Dynamics Revelation cables. They are big stiff and heavy, so I struggled for an hour to get them connected properly.
The effect was quite staggereing, easily equivelent to changing one of the boxes, amplifier etc. Audible in the first few bars. The soundstage widened and deepened, base clearly improved, imaging etc. The main change was in detail, so much more information was coming through. Notes had more initial impact dynamics and were fully developed through the note.
New, they were about $5500 for 8ft single wired, an insane price, not far off the price Lou charges for some speakers. The company is no more, not suprised at these prices, so second hand seems quite cheap.
It would be nice to try out some other top cables, Stealth Dream, Nordost Valhalla, but that's not going to happen.
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One cable that seems to get great and consistent reviews is Grover Huffman. If you don't need longer than 10' then the GH will fit into your budget. It comes with a 60 day money back guarantee and FWIW it rarely comes up used.
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One cable that seems to get great and consistent reviews is Grover Huffman. If you don't need longer than 10' then the GH will fit into your budget. It comes with a 60 day money back guarantee and FWIW it rarely comes up used.
Thanks Wind Chaser - this thread is a bit old so I made a move a while ago - and ended up with the Grover Huffman's as you suggest.
Cheers
Will
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I have tried GH's cables in the past and would certainly add my vote for his cables! He seems to constantly improve his designs so some might feel that their cables are 'old' in relative terms! I simply stuck to them cos I was happy with their musicality!
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Had a chance to compare Lou's new cables made by the Boulder cable company, specifically tailored for his Speakers. We compared them with my Ultra costly(new) Virtual Dynamics Revelation. I bought them quite cheap second hand. I thought the cables were different, but of similar quality reproduction. The Revelations, bigger soundstage ? more brightly let treble, Lou's cables, more neutral.
Considering the many thousands of Dollars difference in price, it makes the new cables a pretty good deal
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I'm hoping that more Daedalus owners will offer their experiences with cables.
One thing I've noticed is that some of the cables which work with the original DA-1 don't tend to have the clarity and phase coherence that will allow the current speaker models to perform at their best, unfortunately this includes most of the 'affordable' cables including some mentioned already...
my recommendation for 'affordable' speaker cables is still the Bolder Cables, while not inexpensive at $600 8ft pair, they are a huge improvement over cables that you will pay a couple hundred less for.
I know there are other really good cables in that price range and I'd like to hear more discussion of them.
thanks for the input ,
lou
Hi Lou,
I recently read a review of a speaker cable from Virtual Audio. They are about $120 for 3 meter pairs. You might get in touch with them, and see if you can borow a set. They may or may not work out with your speakers. If they are as good as the review seem to indicate, would be worth geting a pair to try out.
Ray Bronk