Need Help Choosing 6N1P tubes

medium jim · « **on:** 9 Mar 2013, 05:20 am »

I recently bought an Audio Research VS110 that uses 6N1P's. I know very little about these Russian tubes other than the standard is the 6N1P, next is the 6N1P-VI, and the 6N1P-EV. The latter two are ruggedized versions.

That being the case, is there sonic differences and is there any that are superior. Are the NOS better?

Thanks,
Jim

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 05:59 am »

Iam not expert too. But some info may help:
В (V) лампы повышенной надежности и механической прочностиmeans
= better reliability and mechanical ruggedness or Tubes of high
reliability and mechanical strength,

И (i) higher cathode emission for more current in pulse modes,

On some place of Lampizator site, maybe in the I-Harp amp article, he inform the impulse model in not suited for audio or something as it.
You would send PM to MALPA or Lampizator about this detail, sometimes sound is all about personal taste.
For sure indeed I know it had a stroger cathode for beffier emission.
http://www.gstube.com/catalog/?key=6n1p&submit=Find

medium jim · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 06:08 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 9 Mar 2013, 05:59 am

Iam not expert too. But some info may help:

It may be a much to do about nothing. The cost of the 6n1p is minimal and one would think that ARC would use the variant that sounded the best, but you never know. There is some talk that the ones that have black plates and triple spacers are the good ones, but these are impossible to find. The next best have gold grids and are easy to find.

Jim

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 06:19 am »

Quote from: medium jim on 9 Mar 2013, 06:08 am

It may be a much to do about nothing. The cost of the 6n1p is minimal and one would think that ARC would use the variant that sounded the best, but you never know. There is some talk that the ones that have black plates and triple spacers are the good ones, but these are impossible to find. The next best have gold grids and are easy to find.

Jim

Anton send me a dozen of black plates(EB), its had impressive looking, the getter are silver.
The pins are all straight and chromed, the glass are thick, spacers are double with metal + mica sandswith.
Its are just like these below:

I dont remember triple spacers, but I will look again tomorrow.
Do you mean say 3 separate spacers??

In the mid of the Triodes there is a metal plate for isolation, could be it??
I see no space for a third spacer.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 06:36 am »

Quote from: medium jim on 9 Mar 2013, 05:20 am

I recently bought an Audio Research VS110 that uses 6N1P's. I know very little about these Russian tubes other than the standard is the 6N1P, next is the 6N1P-VI, and the 6N1P-EV. The latter two are ruggedized versions.

That being the case, is there sonic differences and is there any that are superior. Are the NOS better?

Thanks,
Jim

I unaware if they are made today(Voskhod factory), I was think they are no more made, so NOS.
6N1P are near sub for ECC88, 6DJ8, 6922, 6CG7, unless for a stronger filament, it drain more current.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6N1P

medium jim · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 06:39 am »

They're rare and were made in the mid 60's. The question isn't so much on construction (although it is a factor on tone and lower noise), is about which version sounds better/best.

I probably will get some EV's from the 70's from the Voskhod factory.

Jim

P.S.

6922, 7308...draw about 1/2 the current of a 6n1p, so they are not an option. They are still being made....

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 06:50 am »

Quote from: medium jim on 9 Mar 2013, 06:39 am

They're rare and were made in the mid 60's. The question isn't so much on construction (although it is a factor on tone and lower noise), is about which version sounds better/best.

I probably will get some EV's from the 70's from the Voskhod factory.

Jim

P.S.

6922, 7308...draw about 1/2 the current of a 6n1p, so they are not an option. They are still being made....

Just look my tubes, they are from Jun89, black plates.
With these low prices they are no rare tubes.
Is there other model are you refering??

medium jim · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 07:00 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 9 Mar 2013, 06:50 am

Just look my tubes, they are from Jun89, black plates.
With these low prices they are no rare tubes.
Is there other model are you refering??

No, but I just found these guys from 1967:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330872236970&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

I just bought a quad of them and will try them in the input stage...will take a few weeks to get them though.

Jim

P.S. The listing says 1967, but the etched date code is from 1968, no biggie....and it might take 3 weeks to get them.

JakeJ · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 09:08 am »

Please don't be offended but aren't these tubes cheap enough that you can try all three types and hear which ones sound best to your ears? One caveat I have found is that some, not all, miltarized tubes can sound a bit dull due to the heavier components and extra vibration damping.

Know that the 6DJ8 is not a direct substitute. The closest western equivalent is the 6BQ7A. Always verify substitutes with the manufacturer if possible.

medium jim · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 04:03 pm »

Quote from: JakeJ on 9 Mar 2013, 09:08 am

Please don't be offended but aren't these tubes cheap enough that you can try all three types and hear which ones sound best to your ears? One caveat I have found is that some, not all, miltarized tubes can sound a bit dull due to the heavier components and extra vibration damping.

Know that the 6DJ8 is not a direct substitute. The closest western equivalent is the 6BQ7A. Always verify substitutes with the manufacturer if possible.

None taken, I applaud ARC for delving into designing a great amp with inexpensive tubes that happen to sound real good. The plan is to roll all three types or more in it at some point. The funny thing is that I can do it for less than I have spent in the past just for a single tube and we are talking about 3 sleeves in this instance.

Jim

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 06:32 pm »

These tubes are made in another factory, not the current Voskhod, I dont know if this is good or bad.
Text say:
Made in Russia on Soyuz factory for military equipments. 1967.
I dont like this in the condition:
The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects.
Anyway the price is low, it worth the try.
I noted these getter are black, mine are silver.
Maybe a different getter formula.

medium jim · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 07:03 pm »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 9 Mar 2013, 06:32 pm

These tubes are made in another factory, not the current Voskhod, I dont know if this is good or bad.
Text say:
Made in Russia on Soyuz factory for military equipments. 1967.
I dont like this in the condition:
The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects.
Anyway the price is low, it worth the try.
I noted these getter are black, mine are silver.
Maybe a different getter formula.

The seller had decent feedback and has some excellent feedback received on these tubes...need to sort through his feedback. The price is right and I believe these are the tubes I read about as being the good ones.

Jim

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Mar 2013, 07:17 pm »

Hope it will delivery a great sound quality.
Please keep us update on the news and results.

rivieraranch · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Mar 2013, 11:44 am »

You would be best to get some pre-1984 6N1P-EV from a good seller and try them out. Also, something you may not have considered would be some excellent 6BQ7's. Somebody is selling lots of 10 GE 6BQ7A that were selected for Tektronix for use in oscilloscopes. These might sound different or better than the 6N1P. Item No. 251243618027.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251243618027?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Golden Ears · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Feb 2014, 03:26 am »

Medium Jim I was wondering what the outcome of your tube rolling was. I have an Audio Research Corporation VS110. For power tubes I am running winged 6550C NOS Svetlanas from the original St. Petersburg plant. I just bought replacement 6N1P tubes from ARC.

Wondering if there is a difference.

Also wondering..if you might want to sell your amp. I would love to vertically bi-amp. I am located in Newport Beach CA. I might use my amp in a room demo at T.H.E. Show Newport Beach 2014.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Feb 2014, 05:10 am »

I have a few pair of 6N1P's from my Van Alstine gear. Some are new and some are NOS, they all sound the same. I would be happy to sell them to you for a fair price as I no longer use them as my gear has been upgraded to take 6CG7's.

SteveFord · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Feb 2014, 11:37 pm »

Golden Ears,
You might want to use the email function to contact Medium Jim.
He has gone on to greener pastures, as it were.

bladesmith · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Mar 2014, 02:16 am »

The Russian EV's are nice. Smooth tubes.
The VI's are a little brighter. If you can get some with the rocket logo. Better yet.

I am a little bias about Russian tubes, the old stuff. They seem to be very durable.
I also like the old stock made back in the 70's.

Sometimes purchasing them from Russia, they come broken. I have all of
Mine tested once they arrive.

Good luck.

S Clark · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Mar 2014, 04:01 am »

I've been lucky so far getting them from Russia. Picked up a quad of rocket logo's from 1978 last month. A bit bright so far, but damn do they have detail. They still need another dozen hours or more on them to see if they'll settle down some. I'm using them in the outer position of a Moscode 401HR amp. They are also the stock tube in my Dodd battery phonostage.

bladesmith · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Mar 2014, 04:35 am »

I agree, They do take a long time to break in. It might have something to do with
How sturdy they are. Not sure.

(I also think the ev's are almost as good sounding as the supertube. Depending on your setup.)

Can you run 6N23P's ?
(They are freaking sweet.)