[Early B.]

The answer has already been provided -- give the customer a choice of tube connectors or high end binding posts.

If I were buying $20K speakers, I'd want as much audio jewelry as possible, including pretty binding posts. And I wouldn't snip the spades from my $1,500 speaker cables. Those high end spades are partly why I purchased them.

[Danny Richie]

 
 

I am VERY sorry!  It seems like every time I try to type something into this thread, it just ends up going bad.  I'm going to do what I probably should have done from the start - I'm going to as graciously as I can bow out of this thread and hopefully let it get back to positive energy looking forward to hearing the new Super-7.

See y'all in Denver.

No big deal.

Danny

Never forget the puurty factor 

There is something to be said for it - especially for those that have resale value in mind (at least in the back of their minds) when they purchase something. 

 

Like someone already said. Sending back a set of cables to get re-terminated at the factory would be no big deal.

The answer has already been provided -- give the customer a choice of tube connectors or high end binding posts.

If I were buying $20K speakers, I'd want as much audio jewelry as possible, including pretty binding posts. And I wouldn't snip the spades from my $1,500 speaker cables. Those high end spades are partly why I purchased them.

I appreciate the insight guys. And I know some people think that way. I guess I am all about the performance and not too much into glitz and glam. I just can't image a top level speaker or speaker cable still using a bolt and spade connectors. The performance difference to be gained from the connectors are at least half again as much as the differences in the speaker cables themselves. 

[satfrat]

My Ridge Street Poiema cabling would negate owning any of Danny's loudspeaker designs with those tube terminals as the only option. Ridge Street's speaker cabling consists of flat silver cabling with no terminations installed, only a spade-like semicircle CNC milled into the side. For someone like myself who lovessssss cables like this, there will never be any compromising my no termination Ridge Street Poiemas,,, regardless of how good those new Super V's might be. A choice of industry standard terminals on them should offerred IMHO. 

Cheers,
Robin

[Captainhemo]

Why wouldn't you go with what gives you the best  audio performance ?
I'm  by no means in this class of speaker/cable but I don't see why  changing the termination  on the end of a cable  to something that can only  enhance  the transfer of  the audio signal from cable to  input leadd would be a bad thing.
If I were in  a position to be buying these,  I'd want the  best possible sound.
Just my $.02 

-jay

[cab]

Letting your cable terminations determine your speaker choice seems like the tail wagging the dog....

[Danny Richie]

My Ridge Street Poiema cabling would negate owning any of Danny's loudspeaker designs with those tube terminals as the only option. Ridge Street's speaker cabling consists of flat silver cabling with no terminations installed, only a spade-like semicircle CNC milled into the side. For someone like myself who lovessssss cables like this, there will never be any compromising my no termination Ridge Street Poiemas,,, regardless of how good those new Super V's might be. A choice of industry standard terminals on them should offerred IMHO. 

Cheers,
Robin

I appreciate that feedback, but you are still pushing the signal through a binding post. So some of the advantages you might be getting in the cable is negated. All that nice cable and then the signal has to pass through a polished bolt.    So they are already compromised. Now if you get Ric Schultz to get you the same wire as internal wire, and feed it through the cabinet using his modified binding post trick that he posted a picture of on the page before this one, then that would be a very good connection.

And BTW, I use some of Robert's (Ridge Street's) top level interconnect. Robert loaned me interconnect for RMAF several years ago. He also brought me some of his power cables and speaker wire. Robert and I had a little cable swapping season after hours to see if gains could be made. His interconnects won out hands down. However, his speaker cables lost out to the Electra Cables. And he and I both agreed that in that system the Electra Cables sounded best. And this was before they introduced the tube connectors that took it all up another notch.

And the new speakers are the Super-7's. 

[Rclark]

 Danny, can you explain why exactly, why these special binding posts transmit the audio signal better than the bipass method, or Cardas, or just plain old spades?

 Or is this an intangible thing that you hear over long term and decide is better?

[gprro]

maybe you could have Electra make a spade adapter, a male tube conector with a small flat piece of the same metal at the end and a couple small flat pieces plastic and a screw down to clamp them...

[Danny Richie]

Danny, can you explain why exactly, why these special binding posts transmit the audio signal better than the bipass method, or Cardas, or just plain old spades?

 Or is this an intangible thing that you hear over long term and decide is better?

A low mass Copper tube is way better than a high mass bolt. It also puts the internal speaker wire and external speaker wire to within .045" from one another. So there is much less in the signal path to degrade the signal.

Check out the info posted on their web site: http://www.electracable.com/tubeconnector.htm  And look at the cutaway view showing the internals.

And yes, they do sound notable better. 

[satfrat]

I appreciate that feedback, but you are still pushing the signal through a binding post. So some of the advantages you might be getting in the cable is negated. All that nice cable and then the signal has to pass through a polished bolt. 

And BTW, I use some of Robert's (Ridge Street's) top level interconnect. Robert loaned me interconnect for RMAF several years ago. He also brought me some of his power cables and speaker wire. Robert and I had a little cable swapping season after hours to see if gains could be made. His interconnects won out hands down. However, his speaker cables lost out to the Electra Cables. And he and I both agreed that in that system the Electra Cables sounded best. And this was before they introduced the tube connectors that took it all up another notch.

And the new speakers are the Super-7's.

I know that you were familiar with Robert's cables Danny but there are other flat cable companies out there that do the same thing. While I understand your belief in your tube terminations, I do feel that you're doing many audiophiles an injustice by not offering this option. It sorta reminds me of the AVA IEC powewr cord issues of the past.  But it's your decision, I'm just offerring up my thoughts as have others, FWTW. 

And thanks for correcting me on my Super-7's. 

Cheers,
Robin

[Danny Richie]

maybe you could have Electra make a spade adapter, a male tube conector with a small flat piece of the same metal at the end and a couple small flat pieces plastic and a screw down to clamp them...

There are companies that already make adapters for spades to banana's. But by the time you do all of that you have negated the advantages to begin with.

[Rclark]

 
 But Danny, what about two soldered wires, one coming from the amp, one coming from the speakers, clamped together, wouldn't this be superior to a connector that seperates them?

[Danny Richie]

I know that you were familiar with Robert's cables Danny but there are other flat cable companies out there that do the same thing. While I understand your belief in your tube terminations, I do feel that you're doing many audiophiles an injustice by not offering this option. It sorta reminds me of the AVA IEC powewr cord issues of the past.  But it's your decision, I'm just offerring up my thoughts as have others, FWTW. 

And thanks for correcting me on my Super-7's. 

Cheers,
Robin

Again, thanks for your feedback.

I would't image that Serenity Acoustics would not fore go a sale if some one absolutely had to have a lesser quality connector put on the back of the speakers. But it would certainly be frowned upon. They might want to consider offering the customer a deal they couldn't refuse on some higher quality speaker cables with tube connector ends. All of this will be discussed shortly.

That's almost like saying I know those Sonicap Platinum's used the the Super-7's are suppose to be really good, but can I get mine with Solen poly caps? 

 But Danny, what about two soldered wires, one coming from the amp, one coming from the speakers, clamped together, wouldn't this be superior to a connector that seperates them?

Yep, and many DIY guys do permanently attach their speaker cables to their speaker that way. Or make no connection at all and run their speaker cables right out of the back of their speakers. It would be real hard to market a speaker that way though.

No connection is the best connection. Second best is tube connectors.

[Rclark]

So the bipass method is the best. That's what I thought. Thanks!

[Tyson]

So, with binding posts on amps, the ones with mostly plastic and only a small amount of metal are best?  I'd agree with that, and it seems to be the direction WBT has been going recently.  Same with interconnects - the (mainly plastic) Bullet Plugs are the best I've used.

[Ric Schultz]

I like Milehighguys idea.  Put both on the speaker.  The tube jacks work best with the tube plugs and regular bananas and the pure Oak? clamps would work best with spades and bare wire.  Now everyone is happy.  You have the worlds most transparent and sexiest connector (pure Oak or other hardwood clamp system).  I mean, wouldn't you want to turn some sexy hardwood knobs/nuts?......I would......maybe she would too!   he he.

[Danny Richie]

I like Milehighguys idea.  Put both on the speaker.  The tube jacks work best with the tube plugs and regular bananas and the pure Oak? clamps would work best with spades and bare wire.  Now everyone is happy.  You have the worlds most transparent and sexiest connector (pure Oak or other hardwood clamp system).  I mean, wouldn't you want to turn some sexy hardwood knobs/nuts?......I would......maybe she would too!   he he.

I think I like that idea best too. Add another set rather than replace. 

[dBe]

I think I like that idea best too. Add another set rather than replace. 

Danny, I have watched this with my mind already made up, so I have no dog in the fight.  I personally use copper bolts and nuts with the internal cable run to the outside and do the incoming speaker cable/internal wire sandwich thing, so I'm just stubborn in how I want things. I build all of my own cables anyway.  The conductor to conductor gas tight pressure (cold) weld is the best connection possible, especially between non-electrolytic metals.

Just an observation from someone that is in the hi-end game, too.  If I have a customer that wants a peanut butter and jelly sandwich painted on the front of something he is purchasing for $20K in this economy, I'm gonna ask him creamy or chunky and do it.

I agree with you that the Tube Connectors are the best speaker cable connector that I have seen or used, bar none.  Audio wackos (pick me, pick me!!!  ) are a strange breed though.  If 'twere me (which it isn't obviously) I would make my case for the Tube Connectors, have Serenity offer a free re-termination service for the customer's cable (+ freight, of course) AND also offer the connector of the customer's choice as an option.  Everyone wins and the wacko that lives in all of us is satisfied.

One other observation: most audiophiles are not setup or qualified to do a high temperature/high mass cable termination.  There are a bunch of us here that do this regularly and think nothing of it.  That's good.  I have, however, seen quite a few DIY terminations that look like they were done with a knife and fork over the kitchen stove.  I had one customer complain to me how his hi-$$$ amp was a POS.... until I re-terminated his cables.

Stirring the kettle again, I guess.........................

Dave

[persisting1]

Ok, I guess the Electras will allow a banana plug. When I reread the Electra site it seemed like you needed to put bare wire into the stud. I guess I should have gone with my gut feeling.

Danny, maybe some are getting confused about adding the male stud of the binding post. It could be confused to as adding this as a termination?

[Milehighguy]

I'm glad that both Danny and Ric like my idea, and maybe now they can stop arguing I'll be so proud if I see two connector types on the back of a pair of the super 7's. (or any other speaker). It's also an easy way to set up a comparison of the audible results of a conventional connector vs. the tubes. you can have the same amp and cables going to the same speakers, and switch between connector systems.