AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: Bigload on 28 Oct 2012, 07:09 pm
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I am ordering these for sure. Just curious about needing a sub for 2 channel music duty. Appreciate your experience and comments in this regard.
Thanks.
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I dont have the m7, so i wont be able to give you a comment. But wether it will require a sub or not, that also depends on how much low end you crave.
One of the good thing about sub is that you can EQ the bass and having a better ideal placement.
I always like it with the sub listening music, the bass is just simply tighter (rythmik), but also require processing for adjusting distance.
Another thing about the m7 is that i while ago i contacted Jim and inquiring wether it can be built with an open back and he said yes.
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How big is your room, Bigload? I think it will really come down to that and how much low end and slam you crave.
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The room is not huge....16X16, but it has a tall ceiling and opens to a balcony that overlooks it. And since this will be just be for music, most of which is classical and some jazz, I am hoping to make it without a sub here.
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If bass is important to you, why not the HT2-TL?
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I dont have the m7, so i wont be able to give you a comment. But wether it will require a sub or not, that also depends on how much low end you crave.
One of the good thing about sub is that you can EQ the bass and having a better ideal placement.
I always like it with the sub listening music, the bass is just simply tighter (rythmik), but also require processing for adjusting distance.
Another thing about the m7 is that i while ago i contacted Jim and inquiring wether it can be built with an open back and he said yes.
Which Salk speakers do you own?
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Which Salk speakers do you own?
Standarrd dome Song Towers
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If bass is important to you, why not the HT2-TL?
Superior midrange of the Accuton driver?
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I am guessing that those monitors would be more than enough for your 16 x 16 room ...
In your situation ... I would get the monitors and treat the rooms properly - corners and first reflection points and bring the monitors out into the room as much as you can and then see if you miss any bottom end ...
My guess would be that monitors would be perfect for this room size - why? Cause I have monitors in my 18x18 and I do not miss bass ... of course down the road I will get full range :duh: :thumb:
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Try it without the sub first. Experiment with placement (speakers and listening position), and if you're wanting more low end get a sub.
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That makes good sense and will be what I do.
I am just curious if folks would say, wow they really play nice on the low end, or say you really need a sub with these monitors. I know it is subjective. I know it depends on room size and treatments. I know it depends on expectations, etc. But I am still curious as to the thoughts of those that have listened to these speakers.
This will be my 5th set of Salk speakers plus a center channel. I have been thrilled with each set and no doubt will be again. Nevertheless, just curious about low end capability on the M7's.
Thanks.
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This will be my 5th set of Salk speakers plus a center channel. I have been thrilled with each set and no doubt will be again. Nevertheless, just curious about low end capability on the M7's.
Thanks.
I'm jealous. :D
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OK. I'm an anxiously waiting Salk customer again. I got my order finalized with Jim today. Spalted bee's wing makore M7's with brown stain. That wood looks fabulous to me in the pics I've seen. It was HARD to pick a veneer, but I am sure I will like this.
Let the wait begin.
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Congratulation, this is one of my favorite veneer.
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To BigLoad, have you thought about building it with open back like the big brothers? You get the option of open and sealed back.
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Open back or rear ported not a good option for me due to room config.
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I see.
Does anyone know whats the minimum required from wall with the open back design? I really want to try the open back desing with the sealed back options. But also due to wall retrictions, im afraid a closed back may be better. How much compromise would an open back with the sealed option have over a proper sealed version?
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I see.
Does anyone know whats the minimum required from wall with the open back design? I really want to try the open back desing with the sealed back options. But also due to wall retrictions, im afraid a closed back may be better. How much compromise would an open back with the sealed option have over a proper sealed version?
A design with an open back seems to benefit from 4+ feet from the back wall, and also a good amount of space from the side walls (3+ feet). That's just my opinion, of course, but I feel they sound better when given more space. What you'll lose with the open-back design (and this is also room dependent) is a little bit of focus. You'll still hear all the details, but they won't be quite as easy to pick out; you'll gain a crazy sized soundstage (width and depth), though, so it really depends on which sound you're looking for. My favorite part about the open-back design is that you can tweak it to mesh well with your room by adding whatever amount of poly-fill you like. Or you can just run the chambers closed for a more up close and personal sound. Win win.
I do believe that the room really will dictate whether the design is beneficial or not, though.
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Congrats!
Since the M7's have the same low end stats as your ST's (-/+3 db @ 42), it'll be interesting to read what you think about the differences between the two.
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I will be glad to share my observations when the time comes.
Thanks.
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Hi Bigload,
I'm new to the forum and new to the Salk family. I just took delivery of a pair of SS M7s from Jim and I'm exclusively a 2-channel music listener. Perhaps my experience will help. My M7s are rear ported and I'm set up in the living room of a fairly large 1 bedroom apartment. I have the M7s placed roughly 2 feet from the wall. Don't forget how important placement is for bass reinforcement, especially in a corner!
To my ears the 42 Hz -3db specification cited by Jim for the M7s is probably pretty accurate. Also a tightly damped 42 Hz, again subjective. Personally, I wouldn't consider my M7s without subwoofer reinforcement and that's exactly what I do in my system. I supplement my M7s with a REL R205, very carefully integrated by trial-and-error to my taste. A bit of advice, if you choose a subwoofer for your M7s be picky about brand and model. The majority of subwoofers are designed for HT shock and awe use - which is perfectly valid - but I can assure you only a fraction are tonally correct for high end music reproduction. I'm partial to REL for that reason because of a lot of experience with subs for monitor reinforcement. As always, your mileage may vary.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70325)
I've attached a photo of my M7s installed in my system for grins. You can see the subwoofer in the right corner. This pair is finished in glorious African Bubinga personally selected in coordination with Jim right down to the vender and lot #. My poor photographic skills don't come close to doing justice. I can post better pics if members are interested in seeing how a current lot of Bubinga from Salk turns out.
Cheers!
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Owlsalum1-
Thanks very much for the advise on the sub and the great pic. Those look marvelous and I am sure sound wonderful as well. I will put some thought into the sub. My initial thought would be get the monitors and give them a spin. Then, more than likely, have Jim build a Rythmik for me. But.... maybe I will order now so we can match veneer. Thanks again.
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Gorgeous!
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Hi Bigload,
I'm new to the forum and new to the Salk family. I just took delivery of a pair of SS M7s from Jim and I'm exclusively a 2-channel music listener. Perhaps my experience will help. My M7s are rear ported and I'm set up in the living room of a fairly large 1 bedroom apartment. I have the M7s placed roughly 2 feet from the wall. Don't forget how important placement is for bass reinforcement, especially in a corner!
To my ears the 42 Hz -3db specification cited by Jim for the M7s is probably pretty accurate. Also a tightly damped 42 Hz, again subjective. Personally, I wouldn't consider my M7s without subwoofer reinforcement and that's exactly what I do in my system. I supplement my M7s with a REL R205, very carefully integrated by trial-and-error to my taste. A bit of advice, if you choose a subwoofer for your M7s be picky about brand and model. The majority of subwoofers are designed for HT shock and awe use - which is perfectly valid - but I can assure you only a fraction are tonally correct for high end music reproduction. I'm partial to REL for that reason because of a lot of experience with subs for monitor reinforcement. As always, your mileage may vary.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70325)
I've attached a photo of my M7s installed in my system for grins. You can see the subwoofer in the right corner. This pair is finished in glorious African Bubinga personally selected in coordination with Jim right down to the vender and lot #. My poor photographic skills don't come close to doing justice. I can post better pics if members are interested in seeing how a current lot of Bubinga from Salk turns out.
Cheers!
Hi,
looks like you got a mckitosh stuff there. Is it a preamp or an integrated amp?
Im looking for mckintsh tube pre and i was curious how is your set up.
Thanks
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-ricardojoa
First, thanks to all for the compliments and interest.
The McIntosh unit you see in my rack is in fact a MR-85 tuner. I live in Chicago where we're lucky enough to have one of the finest 24/7 classical music stations in the country: WFMT. On a good day (typically weekends when RF traffic is minimal), analog broadcast with my MR-85 approaches reference quality. That's how serious this audiophile is about broadcast FM.
A summary of my system for comparison to the mix of components you may be thinking about:
Analog:
Avid Diva SP II turntable
SME 309 tonearm
Clearaudio Maestro cartidge
McIntosh MR-85 tuner
Digital:
PS Audio PWD DAC fed by NAS storage, nearly all 96/24 or better high-resolution source files (FLAC only)
Electronics:
Aesthetix Calypso line stage
Krell S-275 power amplifier
Liberty Audio B2B-1 phono stage
Misc.:
Furman SPR-20i AC regeneration (the only 'power conditioning' I accept as beneficial for a high-end music only system)
SolidSteel racks
Sound Anchors stands for the M7s
REL-R205 subwoofer for bass reinforcement of the M7s
All audioquest interconnects (DBS) and speaker cables, I run my system mostly balanced
Audience powerChords
Jim has always said his SS series does justice to the best front end gear and electronics. Believe it!
For those thinking about veneer choices, I've attached another closeup showing what Jim was able to do with the Bubinga lot he and I chose for the project. Again forgive the horrible flash glare, but I'm pretty sure you get the idea - how eye-popping this recent Bubinga finish turned out.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70575)
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-ricardojoa
First, thanks to all for the compliments and interest.
The McIntosh unit you see in my rack is in fact a MR-85 tuner. I live in Chicago where we're lucky enough to have one of the finest 24/7 classical music stations in the country: WFMT. On a good day (typically weekends when RF traffic is minimal), analog broadcast with my MR-85 approaches reference quality. That's how serious this audiophile is about broadcast FM.
A summary of my system for comparison to the mix of components you may be thinking about:
Analog:
Avid Diva SP II turntable
SME 309 tonearm
Clearaudio Maestro cartidge
McIntosh MR-85 tuner
Digital:
PS Audio PWD DAC fed by NAS storage, nearly all 96/24 or better high-resolution source files (FLAC only)
Electronics:
Aesthetix Calypso line stage
Krell S-275 power amplifier
Liberty Audio B2B-1 phono stage
Misc.:
Furman SPR-20i AC regeneration (the only 'power conditioning' I accept as beneficial for a high-end music only system)
SolidSteel racks
Sound Anchors stands for the M7s
REL-R205 subwoofer for bass reinforcement of the M7s
All audioquest interconnects (DBS) and speaker cables, I run my system mostly balanced
Audience powerChords
Jim has always said his SS series does justice to the best front end gear and electronics. Believe it!
For those thinking about veneer choices, I've attached another closeup showing what Jim was able to do with the Bubinga lot he and I chose for the project. Again forgive the horrible flash glare, but I'm pretty sure you get the idea - how eye-popping this recent Bubinga finish turned out.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70575)
Wow, thanks for sharing.
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^ Agreed. That is one sexy veneer!
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Beautiful looking speakers and listening space.
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Owlsalum, what stands are you using? I've had a devil of a time finding the right 18" stands for my M7s.
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The stands appear to be Sound Anchors.
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The stands appear to be Sound Anchors.
Thanks, I just noticed that in the description. Going to check those out.
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Nice. Can I ask how much for the S. A. stands?
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Hi Guys,
To answer your questions about my stands, I do indeed have my M7s on a pair of Sound Anchors.
I'm also the owner of a pair of Harbeth Compact 7s (ES3 version, which I also love a lot and intend to keep). Those stands in the pic are S.A.s 3-poster for the Harbeth C7, my pair the 19" stands. Because I'm partial to Sound Anchors, I originally thought about having a custom pair made just for my M7s, but then considered trying my existing C7 stands. Why not? If they did the job for my M7s I could switch at will between my M7s and C7s with the same stands.
They turn out to be terrific. You'll notice the stands are wider than the M7s (the C7s have a wider width dimension). That's a blessing in disguise. I'm experimenting with toe-in (and I'm finding the balance I prefer from the M7s to be toe-in sensitive). The wider footprint of the C7 stands has meant I can change toe-in of the M7s by just rotating them on the stand while still maintaining full contact. In my opinion that really matters with the M7s, which are both heavy and have a relatively high center of gravity. Rock solid support is crucial. The 19" C7 stands (together with the spikes) put the center of the RAALs at about 42". When seated that puts my hear height at just below the RAAL, and I'm also finding I prefer that for best balance to my taste. Listening to the M7s with ear height right at the tweeter center is a bit too insistent for me. But the C7 stands are also available in 17" if you'd prefer a 2" lower tweeter height. Your choice for the best balance in your environment.
But this is the real clincher: the C7 stands are a Sound Anchors stock item. You don't have to custom order and you don't have lead time for delivery. Check Acoustic Sounds for stock status and pricing. I purchased my pair from Acoustic Sounds. Harbeth sells so well AS nearly always has the C7 stands on the self for delivery.
How cool being able to share experience in building our own systems for the benefit of others!
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Thanks, I'll look into those sound anchors, as I am not happy with my current solution. The toe-in issue is a great observation!
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Thanks I will look at website.
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SA make some really nice stands.
How do you like the PWD? Do you wish it could play back DSD files?
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Owl, how do you like the new salk m7 speakers versus your Harbeth seven ES threes?
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Hi Big Red!
Initially my PWD was something of a pain. Numerous irritating firmware glitches and the early version of the eLyric upnp controller was a disaster. Paul and friends at PSA have since ironed out those bugs. Today I'm happy as a clam running my PWD with my iPad. Sonically, the PWD is everything PSA is most known for, absolutely killer bass and a slightly warm midrange I crave. And it's at its best when run balanced. Would I recommend it (now the Mk II)? Without hesitation. If you've got the scratch, the PWD is worth every penny sonically and beautifully built to last.
Re DSD: nope. I hear no sonic advantage to DSD compared to well implemented high-rate deep word depth PCM. In any case, I argue DSD is going the way of the dinosaur, only dying more slowly than dead-as-a-doornail DVD-A. I made the conscious decision when I pulled the trigger on the PWD to ditch DSD permanently. With a rapidly growing catalog of really fine 96/24 and 192/24 PCM downloads now available, I don't miss DSD one bit.
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-mr_bill
The Harbeths are more forgiving than the SS M7s. Subjectively richer in the lower midrange and upper to mid-bass. That's characteristic in my experience of all the British BBC LS3/5 specification inspired constrained thin-wall designs (a deliberate design decision by Harbeths Alan Shaw, also Spendor, Rogers, etc.). The M7s are ruthlessly unforgiving of flaws in upstream HW and source material. Extended high frequency response and a subjectively leaner balance throughout the midrange and down to bass cutoff.
The Harbeths really shine with human voice and certain other types of material such as small jazz ensemble music. The BBC monitor specification was, after all, intended to produce a better design for broadcast monitoring use. The M7s really roll with demanding wideband material where the RAALs kick-in. That's the only knock of any consequence I have against the Harbeths - an overly polite high end - but that glorious midrange compensates.
I love both for different reasons. Suppose I'm lucky in that I have another set of electronics, so I can mix-and-match my C7s and my M7s. I can tell you the same mix of upstream gear doesn't work for both. Haven't decided yet, but considering rotating my Krell for pure Class-A amplification (which I have) to run my M7s. A bit of Class-A sweetness (which I hear every time in Class-A amplification) might make already really fine into extraordinary.
Ciao!
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-mr_bill
The Harbeths are more forgiving than the SS M7s. Subjectively richer in the lower midrange and upper to mid-bass. That's characteristic in my experience of all the British BBC LS3/5 specification inspired constrained thin-wall designs (a deliberate design decision by Harbeths Alan Shaw, also Spendor, Rogers, etc.). The M7s are ruthlessly unforgiving of flaws in upstream HW and source material. Extended high frequency response and a subjectively leaner balance throughout the midrange and down to bass cutoff.
The Harbeths really shine with human voice and certain other types of material such as small jazz ensemble music. The BBC monitor specification was, after all, intended to produce a better design for broadcast monitoring use. The M7s really roll with demanding wideband material where the RAALs kick-in. That's the only knock of any consequence I have against the Harbeths - an overly polite high end - but that glorious midrange compensates.
I love both for different reasons. Suppose I'm lucky in that I have another set of electronics, so I can mix-and-match my C7s and my M7s. I can tell you the same mix of upstream gear doesn't work for both. Haven't decided yet, but considering rotating my Krell for pure Class-A amplification (which I have) to run my M7s. A bit of Class-A sweetness (which I hear every time in Class-A amplification) might make already really fine into extraordinary.
Ciao!
It sounds like to me that the harbeth are a warmer speaker based on your discriptions.
Salk has always been a type of speaker thats is very clean and transparent.
I think these type of speaker might pair well with tube gear to give them a slight warness.
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Owl, I got those Sound Anchors (19" Harbeth C7 stands) and they are excellent - solid and steady! Thanks for the tip!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71077)
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Frans - my pleasure! Like your M7 BTW. What finish did you choose for your pair? Not obvious from the pic, but that's because of the angle. Maybe another pic at a better angle - to compare notes and simply to admire Jim's work on your pair?
Enjoy!!
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Frans - my pleasure! Like your M7 BTW. What finish did you choose for your pair? Not obvious from the pic, but that's because of the angle. Maybe another pic at a better angle - to compare notes and simply to admire Jim's work on your pair?
Enjoy!!
He has several pictures in his gallery. :thumb:
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Silver gray tiger maple, they are works of art!