AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Captainhemo on 3 Aug 2018, 11:09 pm
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Decided to split this from the "Official Super 7 thread....
After working onthe top section S7 baffles,/ wings, we started thinking about a full cabinet flat pack. took some time to get this all fit up but it came out good .
We're looking at 10 pieces & 18 dowels per cabinet. Everything is located and aligned via dowels. These would / will use the same baffle we designed for the S7 upper section posted in the above mentioned thread ( I'll re-post some of that info here at some point). The cabinets should be slightly shorter than the originals, , the bracing has been slightly beefed up to match what we do in our servo sub flalt packs , both servo subs are facing forward, did up a new base etc for a bit of a different look. Basic kits will use all Medex (1.25", 1", and .75") .
Here are a few pics:
Wings are 1.25" Medex with large 1" roundovers on outer edge, small .25" roundover on inner edge to match inset for grill frames.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183035)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183036)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183037)
An up close pic of the front and rear small, .25" grill insets (rear side is for the subs, could esilly mount a grill on rear of upper bafle as well)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183038)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183039)
Lots of dowel holes !
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183040)
All components obviously have corresponding dowel holes
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183041)
base is also 1.25" Medex with a nic e little rounded step to match cabinet rouindovers, something a bit differentfrom the norm.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183042)
jay
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Outstanding......I'm glad I already have the servos in a H frame.
Will lesson the "try to convince the wify I deserve this" thing.... :wink:
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Hawt!! So glad that others will soon get to experience the awesomeness that is the Super 7.
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That looks fantastic! Congrats on a great job!
What is Medex?
Will it use electronic crossover or all passive?
Is there compensation planned for the Z offset between woofer and mids?
Thanks!
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That looks fantastic! Congrats on a great job!
What is Medex?
Will it use electronic crossover or all passive?
Is there compensation planned for the Z offset between woofer and mids?
Thanks!
The Super 7's use a passive network for the upper (Neo3 in waveguide/neo 10's) section. The lower sub section in each is a pair of the gR SW12 16FR or 08's driven with the fully adjustable Rythmik A370PEQ (active).
Outstanding......I'm glad I already have the servos in a H frame.
Will lesson the "try to convince the wify I deserve this" thing.... :wink:
maybe a road trip to the Okanagan at some point, once we get a pair built out it'd be cool for you to hear them
jay
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:D dam nice Jay. This looks like a keeper. Do you have kits ready or soon ? Are the driver kits ready ? Are the X-overs an easy build ?
Is there an all in $$ figured out yet ? :D
Looks great on the wood pac you did. :D
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That looks great Jay, I really like the base detail. Looking forward to seeing the projects this inspires.
Best,
Ed
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That looks fantastic! Congrats on a great job!
What is Medex?
Thanks!
MEDEX:
No added formaldehyde resin system
Especially suitable in interior applications where moisture is a concern, Medex does succeed in the 6 cycle accelerated aging test
Superior physical properties to standard MDF. Truly high performance screwholding and MOR capabilities, among others
Pre-consumer recycled wood content
FSC® Mix Credit Certified - available option
Potential LEED® 2009 credit support: MRc4, 5, 7 & IEQc4.4
Potential LEED® v4 credit support: Materials & Resources and Indoor Environmental Quality
Meets CARB ATCM 93120 Phase 2 emission limits - CARB NAF Exempt
Third party certification - SCS, ECC
CHPS Compliant - California section 01350 approved
Limitations: Medex is not suitable for structural applications, exterior siding or exterior trim
http://www.roseburg.com/Product/medex/
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:D dam nice Jay. This looks like a keeper. Do you have kits ready or soon ? Are the driver kits ready ? Are the X-overs an easy build ?
Is there an all in $$ figured out yet ? :D
Looks great on the wood pac you did. :D
Hey Pascal
the networks won't be an overly difficult built, should be fairly simple actually. They are not finalized, I have to get Danny that final prototype of the upper baffle.
I am not sure on flat pack pricing or how we're going to do this at the start.... we may try and sell a couple pairs of "pre-order" flat packs , would be nice to know there are some spoken for before committing to programming and cutting.
jay
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Can the flat packs be finished in any way? Would like to get a pair of Super 7s eventually, but I have no way to finish the flat packs in any meaningful way.
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:D always always always been interested in this speaker. Your amp can be micro which saves.
Standing by,, you price setters be nice to us poor folk now, ha . Thanks Jay,, Fires again in the Okie ?
Dam .. :D
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Can the flat packs be finished in any way? Would like to get a pair of Super 7s eventually, but I have no way to finish the flat packs in any meaningful way.
We can do finished cabinets as well but the box size grows consderably. Finishing can vary in cost greatly too, we can even offer House of Kolor automotive finish which is stunning but spendy.
don't think I'd be too keen on sending out painted flat pakcs (unassembled), I'd be too worried about scratching the panels
jay
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Will it use electronic crossover or all passive?
Is there compensation planned for the Z offset between woofer and mids?
Thanks!
The filters for the upper drivers will all be passive.
The driver offset between the Neo's and the servo subs are a non-factor. At the 200Hz crossover point the wavelengths are five and a half feet long. So the six inch offset is barely even five degrees of phase rotation. And that is easily compensated for with the phase control knob on the servo amp.
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maybe a road trip to the Okanagan at some point, once we get a pair built out it'd be cool for you to hear them
jay
My brother inlaw just bought a new spread in Summer Land....I'd be honoured.
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My brother inlaw just bought a new spread in Summer Land....I'd be honoured.
That works, about 1/2 hr from here
Here's a few more pics..... I got rid of the feature/edge outlines and added a bit of color, looks a bit more "real"
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183089)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183091)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183090)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183092)
jay
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These look really good Jay, I just wish I could make mine work. Ruben did such a good job it just wouldn't make sense to strip the servo subs out of them.
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I'm definitely interested in these. :green:
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I'm very interested also !! :D
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Jay, Looking at the front of the top section how tall is it from top edge to the bottom and how wide?
Thanks,
Greg
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$? Any ideas as to what we are going to be paying for these guys? Also curious on the height on the speaker and the height of the tweeter level.
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The speaker is 57" and the tweeter is 44" to center of , these are from bottom of the speaker with out spikes.
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$? Any ideas as to what we are going to be paying for these guys? Also curious on the height on the speaker and the height of the tweeter level.
8 Neo 10's, two GR Neo 3's, four 12" servo subs, two servo amps, crossovers, wire, tube connectors, etc should be in the $3,800 to $3850 range depending on exactly what the crossover parts are this time.
And that is handing you everything you need for what the parts cost.
Jay is working on the price of the flat pack. Lots of work goes into it but it should be easy to assemble when you get them from Jay.
Considering what they retailed for originally this DIY version is going to be a steal.
The speaker is 57" and the tweeter is 44" to center of , these are from bottom of the speaker with out spikes.
Jay has reduced the space a little between the upper woofer top and the first Neo 10 in an effort to get the tweeter height down a little. It could come in at more like 42" or so.
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The speaker is coming in at 56 tall with the tweeter / waveguide center at 42.25".... these measurements include the 1.25" base.
I can't really determine final pricing at this point, still too many variables (more programming, custom boxes/packing, yeilds per sheet etc etc
greg, the baffle is 13" wide, the overall wideth (no base) is 15.5" which I believe is very similar to the original design.
Tweeter height of the tops section only is 14" (again, no base)
jay
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I'm going to need some kind of base to attach to my OB subs. I'm thinking about refinishing them too but I'm in no hurry. I hope whatever you're planning can work for me and that I don't need new sub cabinets.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/802/39930272375_55a1fd58c5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23Qv5PZ)
AV123 Strata Mini and GR / Rythmik Open Baffle Subwoofers (https://flic.kr/p/23Qv5PZ) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
Oh, and if anyone in the Chicago area wants a pair of used AV123 Strata Mini, I'll let them go for $600/pr. :eyebrows:
No grills, a ding or 2 in the finish, upgraded crossovers. Still sound fantastic! :green:
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If the Isoacoustic stands won’t put the tweeter of the S7 monitor too high you can set the monitor on top of the subs like I do with the NX-Otica monitors.
If the tweeter would be too high on your subs you could experiment with a tapered base for the monitors that aims the drivers down or you could stand mount the monitors where your minis are now
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If the Isoacoustic stands won’t put the tweeter of the S7 monitor too high you can set the monitor on top of the subs like I do with the NX-Otica monitors.
If the tweeter would be too high on your subs you could experiment with a tapered base for the monitors that aims the drivers down or you could stand mount the monitors where your minis are now
If I have to, I'll build a riser for my chair. :lol:
The Isoacoustic stands do raise them up about 5". They do a great job of disconnecting the bass from the floor.
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God,i hate this threat.I got to find more funding.Just what i wanted another pair speakers. :duh:
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God, I hate this thread. I’ve got to find more funding. Just what i wanted - another pair speakers. :duh:
Ditto here. The temptation is palpable. My wife might decapitate me if I bought another pair of floor standing speakers. I know. I’ll tell her it was only after Jay’s encouragement that I broke down and bought them. That way she can blast Jay the next time we visit him. Yeah. That’ll work. :icon_twisted:
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Ditto here. The temptation is palpable. My wife might decapitate me if I bought another pair of floor standing speakers. I know. I’ll tell her it was only after Jay’s encouragement that I broke down and bought them. That way she can blast Jay the next time we visit him. Yeah. That’ll work. :icon_twisted:
She'll be thanking me Michael !! All wrapped into one package, no separate subs and even a set of monitors is gonna take up flor space on a set of stands.
Have her look here, she'll find a stunning Kolor that'll make her happy :thumb:
https://houseofkolor.com/kolors/?ref=topnav
jay
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orientalexpress,
It's interesting that you typed "threat". Was that intended to be "thread"? Very telling. :o
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What's a good way to couple the top section to the h-frame, if we already have h-frames?
Something from Herbie's Audio Lab?
Thanks
Jim
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:D this speaker will save you $$ in the long run as a big ass amp is not needed. Small amp and clean,,,,
Pointing both bass drivers forward sounds the same as one each way ? :D
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What's a good way to couple the top section to the h-frame, if we already have h-frames?
Something from Herbie's Audio Lab?
Thanks
Jim
I use Herbie’s fat dots with mine
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:D Jay , any word when the design will be a go-go ? :D
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:D Jay , any word when the design will be a go-go ? :D
Quite a bit on the go right now including the final (hopefully) upper baffle . One will be on it's way to danny for final testing soon.
Pretty sure we're all good with it but still want to be sure. At that point, we'll see how the interest is...
jay
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Grills give them a nice, finished look
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183333)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183334)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183335)
jay
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Jay,
I thought I remembered reading earlier in one of these threads that this design lowers the height compared to the original S7 a few inches? If so, I remember the original S7 had the crossover mounted on top of the woofer box, so do you intend to have a similar crossover enclosure on this kit or did you find somewhere else to hide the crossover? If the height was lowered enough (in particular if someone goes all in on some really big caps and coils in their crossover), I might be concerned that the lowermost Neo10 would get blocked off more than desirable with the crossover box?
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Hey Jonathon,
Yes, big , botique caps could be an "issue". If going that route, I'd recommend going with external c/o's.
Have already been giving this some thought ..... a double layer amp box that could server double duty as a c/o encolosure as well might work well...... :scratch:
jay
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I think the sketch-ups look awesome. They have lines that don’t look DIY. This is a speaker you could LOOK At for a long time.
The only shame is that, unless you have professional finishing skills, your world-class sounding speaker may still look DIY. I’ve seen Danny’s personal S7’s and they are sexy. That paint was amazing, and probably not cheap. Is it possible to bring that level of fit and finish to Flatpacks? Could solid surface material be CNC’ed, shipped, and assembled not unlike IKEA furniture? Just throwing it out there.
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I think the sketch-ups look awesome. They have lines that don’t look DIY. This is a speaker you could LOOK At for a long time.
The only shame is that, unless you have professional finishing skills, your world-class sounding speaker may still look DIY. I’ve seen Danny’s personal S7’s and they are sexy. That paint was amazing, and probably not cheap. Is it possible to bring that level of fit and finish to Flatpacks? Could solid surface material be CNC’ed, shipped, and assembled not unlike IKEA furniture? Just throwing it out there.
To get a seamless finish requires a lot of work, even with flatpacks as good as Jay's, especially if you want automotive paint jobs and topcoats.
If you want that level of finish, you need to find a local auto body shop that will work with MDF cabinets. The shops around here wanted me to bring them the glued up cabinets but they didn't want me to do much in the way of prep work. They wanted to do that themselves.
That type of high gloss automotive paint job and finish is not cheap. I was quoted $1,200 - $1,500 for a pair of Wedgies and servo sub cabinets. $1,200 for a two part and $1,500 for a three part (candy or pearl) finish.
While that sounds like a lot, it's really not compared to what you are putting into the speaker and what you will end up with.
Mike
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If I may...
Look, if you want a PRO mirror finish, mlundy hit the nail on the head.
For those who want to start and finish the DIY experience, I can recommend this guy.
https://www.amazon.com/HomeRight-C800971-Painter-Painting-Projects/dp/B071X9FZ7R/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1534188716&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=homeright+paint+sprayer&psc=1
I have recently sprayed a couple guitar bodies and wet sanded them using lacquer with very good results. Thinking about how Jay is sectioning these out, perhaps you could do a nice color finish on the wings, sand them out and clear coat to mirror-like finish. It would be very hard work but in my mind, worth the experience.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183360)
For the inside section and baffle, I could see someone doing a nice texture paint or even chalk finish. I have used all the above and they are very forgiving. In my mind, they would end up looking insanely good.
https://www.amazon.com/Rustoleum-285144-Charcoal-Chalked-Ultra/dp/B01J44O9RM/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1534188864&sr=1-3&keywords=rustoleum+chalked+paint
https://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-223525-Multi-Color-Textured-12-Ounce/dp/B000N3C6EM/ref=sr_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1534188888&sr=1-5&keywords=texture+spray+paint
My 2 cents.
Also, I want these speakers, good work Jay!
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My point (or, more accurately, question) is that if you CNC’ed the bafffle / sides (and all the parts traditionally cut from MDF) from a material like Corian, would the complexity / cost of finishing become irrelevant? I would imagine all sections would fit together using biscuits & dowels, fixed using color matched epoxy. From the videos I’ve watched, Corian seems to carve quite nicely, and the S7 seems to be a good candidate (as well as the wedgie).
Even if the costs of the flat pack increased by $1,000 to $1,500, compared to a pro paint job, it could be considered reasonable. I think this type of approach could help you break into new markets - people who are intrigued with the sonic potential of DIY, but not the tools, time, or talent to make the product look professional. Literally selling high end speakers just like IKEA furniture.
Just throwing it out there.
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Hey Jonathon,
Yes, big , botique caps could be an "issue". If going that route, I'd recommend going with external c/o's.
Have already been giving this some thought ..... a double layer amp box that could server double duty as a c/o encolosure as well might work well...... :scratch:
jay
Jay,
After I posted, I was thinking on the same thing regarding building the c/o somehow into the amp box. I guess the challenges would be the same as adding an external c/o to any other design, along with maybe having to figure out how to make sure the plate amp (electrically? magnetically?) doesn't do anything funky to the c/o. Otherwise, I think bundling them together would be a pretty elegant solution.
This might sound like a dumb thought, but any thoughts on somehow putting the c/o in the very base of the cabinet, beneath the servos? Too big to fit without messing up the tweeter height even more?
Jon
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My point (or, more accurately, question) is that if you CNC’ed the bafffle / sides (and all the parts traditionally cut from MDF) from a material like Corian, would the complexity / cost of finishing become irrelevant? I would imagine all sections would fit together using biscuits & dowels, fixed using color matched epoxy. From the videos I’ve watched, Corian seems to carve quite nicely, and the S7 seems to be a good candidate (as well as the wedgie).
Even if the costs of the flat pack increased by $1,000 to $1,500, compared to a pro paint job, it could be considered reasonable. I think this type of approach could help you break into new markets - people who are intrigued with the sonic potential of DIY, but not the tools, time, or talent to make the product look professional. Literally selling high end speakers just like IKEA furniture.
Just throwing it out there.
It's not a bad idea but then what do you do for colors... guys are going to want this , that , and everything in between. Nothing wrong with that but it sure adds to the cost We are into cutting bits and pieces from different sheets etc. Not saying it couldn't be done, just that it isn't the most economical way nor the most efficient use of machine time.
I'd have to do some digging into more materials and available sizing etc
I do know someone who recently made some cabinets out of corian, might have a chat with him and get some feeback....
jay
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An entrepreneurial man once said, "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black."
However, I'm sure if a customer was willing to pay a premium, you'd be willing to make any color (combination) they'd want.
Again, just throwing it out there.
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Jay,
After I posted, I was thinking on the same thing regarding building the c/o somehow into the amp box. I guess the challenges would be the same as adding an external c/o to any other design, along with maybe having to figure out how to make sure the plate amp (electrically? magnetically?) doesn't do anything funky to the c/o. Otherwise, I think bundling them together would be a pretty elegant solution.
This might sound like a dumb thought, but any thoughts on somehow putting the c/o in the very base of the cabinet, beneath the servos? Too big to fit without messing up the tweeter height even more?
Jon
Jon
believe me, I have thought about using the base to house the networks but really don't want to increase height.
jay
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An entrepreneurial man once said, "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black."
However, I'm sure if a customer was willing to pay a premium, you'd be willing to make any color (combination) they'd want.
Again, just throwing it out there.
Exactly :thumb:
And, we do appreciate the feedback / coments, all helps
jay
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I think Corian or like kind material would make a fine looking Super 7. A possible problem may be that the thickness is less that what is currently being talked about. This difference would mean most of the dimensions would have to change and the CNC machine would need to be programmed with another set of values.
Another issue is that once the material is cut it will still have a dull edge that in some cases would need to be rounded over and buffed out.
Otherwise if dimensions could be dealt with the flat pack would be a finished product that simply needs to be put together. The material is not cheap though so I'm not sure a person would really save any money.
Personally I think the best approach is to find a car paint shop that is willing to paint them for you. Or if you are able do it yourself even better.
Greg
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Here is a very informative video that might inspire those who want to go the route of DIY painting.
https://youtu.be/ySPLBjFCf30
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Exactly :thumb:
And, we do appreciate the feedback / coments, all helps
jay
What about putting the passive crossover in the same box as the subwoofer amp? As long as you build it as a faraday cage, you won't have to worry about stray magnetic fields.
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Here is a very informative video that might inspire those who want to go the route of DIY painting.
https://youtu.be/ySPLBjFCf30
LOL...You lost me about 1:15 into it.
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Very poor video but the info. was helpful.
I would have liked more info. on the thinning of the glue and the finishing process of the edges.
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I just had a crazy idea. So I have a pair of dual OB 16 ohm subs built and finished. Since Jay started building the triple sub cabinets I’ve considered having a single OB cabinet built for each side. I figured I could set it on top of, underneath of or simply next to my current subs.
Now with the Super-7 top half becoming available this changes my plan somewhat. Obviously this won’t work on a triple stack so if I want that third sub I need it to the side.
Ok... here’s the crazy part... have the top section built with an integrated single OB section. This allows more freedom to adjust the cabinet so that the tweeter is at the optimal height with potential for space for the crossovers and maybe even an integrated mount for the A370 amp. This is for those of us with separate dual cabinets.
Thoughts?
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I just had a crazy idea. So I have a pair of dual OB 16 ohm subs built and finished. Since Jay started building the triple sub cabinets I’ve considered having a single OB cabinet built for each side. I figured I could set it on top of, underneath of or simply next to my current subs.
Now with the Super-7 top half becoming available this changes my plan somewhat. Obviously this won’t work on a triple stack so if I want that third sub I need it to the side.
Ok... here’s the crazy part... have the top section built with an integrated single OB section. This allows more freedom to adjust the cabinet so that the tweeter is at the optimal height with potential for space for the crossovers and maybe even an integrated mount for the A370 amp. This is for those of us with separate dual cabinets.
Thoughts?
Sounds like a great idea, especially if you can separate the sub from the top section. This will allow you to experiment by placing the single subs in the back of the room and tossing the top section on speaker stands.
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Keep in mind that the crossover point between the panels and the subs are in the 180Hz to 200Hz range. That crossover dictates that the distances must be kept really close. So the upper planar drivers need to be right on top of the servo woofers. Moving them away as separates means they will not blend well.
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Keep in mind that the crossover point between the panels and the subs are in the 180Hz to 200Hz range. That crossover dictates that the distances must be kept really close. So the upper planar drivers need to be right on top of the servo woofers. Moving them away as separates means they will not blend well.
I thought that might be an issue.
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Jay,
Do you plan of offering grill frames, especially with the monitor version or will the baffles have enough room for the builder to add grills if they wish?
Mike
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:D what's the progress word Jay ? Ready to cut some ? :D
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:D what's the progress word Jay ? Ready to cut some ? :D
Send me a pm or email and we can talk, no real commitments at this point so sort of in a holding pattern..
Mike, may offer the grills but they add more cost than one may think as there is a lot.of material wasted. On both models, the side panels are .25" proud of the baffle, that "lip is radius'd.... pretty easy to fit some grills in place.
If we do offer them, they'll be just included and go out with every kit / finished cabinets.
jay
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Jay,
So if I used 1/2” thick material for a frame it would nestel in and be 1/4” proud of the side wings, correct?
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Yup, I did that intentionally. thought it would look good.
jay
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Hey Jay, from your renderings on the first page it appears that the baffle sits in front of the top of the H frame. If you are using the same baffle for the complete speaker as you are the top section alone, it seems I could remove 1”(? ,the thickness of the H frame top) from the bottom of the baffle and still maintain the same distance from the top of my H frame to the bottom NEO 10 assuming I don’t install a bottom in the top section :scratch: :duh:. If you can understand what I am attempting to ask, do you agree or am I missing something? I’m trying to keep the height to a minimum.
Thanks,
Ed
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Hey Ed,
Yup, that is correct. I didn't want a seam on the fron face of the complete Super 7 speaker, it's better for the full blown S7 to have it behind where it is out of sight and not a PItA to deal with. Also eliminates the chance of it possibly showing up down the road in some gorgeous paint.
You could do exactly what you're saying if you don't mind having the seam, dealing with it, and having it possibly show in the future. Or, you could simply make it a reveal betweenthe bottom of the baffle and top of the H-frames with a small radius or bevel if you prefer.
One thing to remember is that there isn't a ton of room below the bottom Neo10 (rear side), I tried hard to keep the tweeter at lower height than the original S7's so space was utalized. I'm only using a 1" top plate onthe sub section... if you used a 1.5" top plate on your subs, there'll end up being .5" less that what you see in the model pics
jay
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Thanks Jay, I believe I can make that work.
Best,
Ed
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The new baffles that Jay had CNC cut for these worked out really well. They measured great.
Jay will have to finish getting the rest of the flat pack priced out for a total cost on it all and these can then be sold as kits.
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Great news! :thumb:
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First full s7 pair of these are in the que for cutting now :thumb:
There will be a front and rear sub grill included in each kit.... frames will be pre-drilled for 3/8x3/8 cylinder magnets. All mating parts will be drilled from the rear side so no effect on painted faces. guys will need to pick up 32 of these magnets for the kit.
Kits will also include 2 of our A370 amp boxes for the servo amps.
Will update soon..... :popcorn:
jay
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Jay, do I understand correctly, you will be making an upper baffle kit available as well ? If so I’m thinking a Super V remodeling. Danny please chime in on critical offsets eg do the Neo driver front faces need to be on the front plane of the overall cabinet ? If not, and depending on critical baffle math, my thought was to mount top baffle behind the continuous top to bottom face frame of my Vs ? Then I need to adjust height as Ed suggests below, and at the Vs base where there’s room to spare.
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Yes, that is the plan but converting the Super V's to the Super 7's would not be easy. It's been discussed a couple times both publically ( in threads) and privately. Probably better off selling your V's as complete speakers , they are a great speaker as they stand.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159276.0
jay
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Anything is possible with woodworkers involved. Will the upper baffle alone, be available ?
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Anything is possible with woodworkers involved. Will the upper baffle alone, be available ?
I'd still swap entire cabinets and sell your Super-V's minus the servo subs. You'll come out ahead that way.
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Danny,
Are you going to be selling all the parts needed to build the Super 7 kit?
Steve
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Danny,
Are you going to be selling all the parts needed to build the Super 7 kit?
Steve
Yup, will be a complete kit including drivers, amps, networks parts , flat packs etc
Was hoping to have the first pair of cabinets thurs/fri but not sure they'll get cut this week. Hoping to hear more soon
jay
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Price of drivers is going up due to the China Tariffs which could affect the price Danny is charging for the kit.
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Price of drivers is going up due to the China Tariffs which could affect the price Danny is charging for the kit.
25% increase starting Jan. 1 on some of our drivers.
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Now would be a good time to know if upper front panel alone would be available for a price along with the drivers and crossover.
Do we have a final number for tweeter height, at center, from floor less spikes ?
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Now would be a good time to know if upper front panel alone would be available for a price along with the drivers and crossover.
Do we have a final number for tweeter height, at center, from floor less spikes ?
42.5", no spikes which I believe is a bit lower than the originals.
Hadn't really planned on selling individual parts, it's not very cost effective once sheets are nested in full cut patterns especially if the numbers match (ie x baffles, x pairs of wings). Will have to see how the numbers come out.
jay
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What about the top sections with wings Jay, will they be available for sale before the increase in driver prices?
Thanks,
Ed
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Doing my best Ed, there is a lot in the "q". the time is going by so darn fast
jay
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Doing my best Ed, there is a lot in the "q". the time is going by so darn fast
jay
I am sure Jay, not rushing you, just curious. If you and Danny had a preorder price worked out prior to the new year you may get some advanced sales, just thinking out loud.
Best,
Ed
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Jay,
Do you know what the weight of the Super 7 is fully assembled?
Steve
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Jay,
Do you know what the weight of the Super 7 is fully assembled?
Steve
Steve...
No, I don't have that info yet but, I can make an "educated" guess....
and that would be 160 lbs a piece. I want to say it may even be a bit less but that's just intuition :)
jay
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160 a piece is about right. But assembled they need to be created and that adds a lot of weight.
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160 a piece is about right. But assembled they need to be created and that adds a lot of weight.
That's for sure. 160ea is about what the triple OB subs I shipped to Florida last year weighed. Once they were packed & crated each one weighed about 268.
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Is there a final price for upper baffle drivers and crossover, and will these be offered outside the “build kit” ??
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Is there a final price for upper baffle drivers and crossover, and will these be offered outside the “build kit” ??
Looks like $4,400 for the complete kits (all drivers, crossovers, etc).
I think Jay is in the $1,600 range for the complete flat pack.
I will offer these fully assembled as well. In a base finish of some kind they should fall in the 9k to 10k range. Fancy paint schemes will be more of coarse.
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Looks like $4,400 for the complete kits (all drivers, crossovers, etc).
I think Jay is in the $1,600 range for the complete flat pack.
I will offer these fully assembled as well. In a base finish of some kind they should fall in the 9k to 10k range. Fancy paint schemes will be more of coarse.
What level of crossover components are in the kit?
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Looks like $4,400 for the complete kits (all drivers, crossovers, etc).
I think Jay is in the $1,600 range for the complete flat pack.
I will offer these fully assembled as well. In a base finish of some kind they should fall in the 9k to 10k range. Fancy paint schemes will be more of coarse.
Yup, sounds right.
And we can offer the same up here in Canada if anyone is interested... exactly as Danny says, cost will vary depnding on finish and we do have a guy here who sprays Hous of Kolor paints.... beautiful stuff.
https://www.houseofkolor.com/kolors/?ref=topnav
Hopefully we'll have a set built out in the not so distant future to use as an example
Networks won't likely consist of a ton of parts withthese. You'll get very good networks in the kits.... if you want all botique parts, there will obviosly be an surcharge
jay
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Looks like $4,400 for the complete kits (all drivers, crossovers, etc).
I think Jay is in the $1,600 range for the complete flat pack.
I will offer these fully assembled as well. In a base finish of some kind they should fall in the 9k to 10k range. Fancy paint schemes will be more of coarse.
Just to be clear, Danny, you're saying it looks like about $6,000 all in for everything needed to build these Super 7 - including the lower servo subwoofer sections?
For those following along that already have the lower half, either separate or from some prior build they've done already (meaning no need to get the bottom half of the speaker) is there an answer to the question that was asked when you replied (bolds added by me for clarity):
Is there a final price for upper baffle drivers and crossover, and will these be offered outside the “build kit” ??
The $4,400 number seemed a little high for just all the neo drivers and crossover bits, and I don't think we've seen or confirmed a "kit" for just the upper baffle and wings yet?
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Indeed Jonathon. I thought the question was more than clear. Could the answer imply there will ONLY be “complete kits”, “complete flat pack”, and “fully assembled” ?
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Ah, minus the servo woofers and amps then $2,750. for the kit.
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Indeed Jonathon. I thought the question was more than clear. Could the answer imply there will ONLY be “complete kits”, “complete flat pack”, and “fully assembled” ?
If you read through the thread , it's pretty clear that we've been talking about both a full Super 7 & a "top section" only kit all along. It gets tough when people start wanting something different and we end up with a shopful of left over parts :(
With regards to your tweeter height question, if you were talking about the tweeter height of the baffle alone it's 14.22".
As I mentioned in a post a couple days ago, we're trying to get these out, quite a few projects going simutaneously
jay
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Read everything quite well Jay. Own a business with 3 and 5 axis along with machine centers. Sounds as if this is being outsourced so I also read well “between the lines”. Nestling “best fit” aside finite orders is one thing, ongoing orders is another. I certainly laud your efforts.
Danny, in spirit of past DIY offerings, is there an engineering drawing for these speakers top to bottom ?
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Jay and Danny, thanks for the clarifications. I just thought I might help making sure all of the questions get answered, as by reading this thread it looks like there are folks shopping for whole speakers, just the top halves, just the wood parts, just the non-wood parts, and many trying to sort this all out before (or after) the above mentioned 25% price increases on some parts.
Thanks again for your efforts and diligence! Noting that complete turn-key speakers will also be available is also great news for folks looking to get in on the action but lacking in the DIY capabilities. All said and done, I think you've got all the bases covered for just about whatever someone would want.
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Danny, in spirit of past DIY offerings, is there an engineering drawing for these speakers top to bottom ?
Tools waiting !
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Tools waiting !
Yeah, Jay spent countless hours creating the drawings and paying a considerable amount of money for programming. The cost of the programming is then spread out over a number of units. So Jay needs quite a few orders to re-coop his initial investment.
I think that what he has done has been very generous and hope you guys can quickly order enough of these for him to break even on his cost and time spent with this project.
I know you won't be disappointed with the speakers. Everyone really loves them.
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Appreciate fact Jay’s out on a limb without orders. When we have the upper cabinet priced with the $2750 to populate it, I suspect there’s a dozen or so Rythmic owners ready to pull the trigger. Numbers talk.
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Here's the first one all dry fit up. All fit very well, nice and snug , no issues. they are surprisingly not as "big" as I figured they'd be.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187351)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187352)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187353)
Got a base figured out for the "monitor" version as well.... will try and post some pics in a bit... need to make some dinner !
jay
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Looking good Jay
Mike
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Jay,
So if I used 1/2” thick material for a frame it would nestel in and be 1/4” proud of the side wings, correct?
Thanks Mike, really happy with them :thumb:
jay
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Badass! Those look just like my babies :) Nice work.
Do you already own Super 7s? If not, will you get a chance to hear them? IME, once people hear the Super 7 it pretty much spoils you forever :P
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Badass! Those look just like my babies :) Nice work.
Do you already own Super 7s? If not, will you get a chance to hear them? IME, once people hear the Super 7 it pretty much spoils you forever :P
No, I have the original pair of NX-Otica's that I'm extremely fond of. And no, I have not heard the Super 7's .... yet .
I think the two speakers will be very similar in some regards although each will have it's advantages, Danny has commented on this publically a couple of times. One huge advantage of the Super 7's to me is the single foot print as compared to the Otica's and a pair of dual/triple subs.
Might have to let the Otica's go to help build out a pair of these and give them a shjot :(
jay
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One other cool thing about the Super 7s you can do that I've not really heard on many other large speakers - nearfield listening. I've now got mine set up about 6 feet from my listening position, and the mid/tweeter integration is so good, so seamless, that it still perfectly integrates, even at that close range.
The result? From a clarity/transparency standpoint, it's almost like wearing reference level headphones. If the headphones had a massive room filling soundstage, along with crushing bass that punched you in the chest!
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Here is the monitor version with a base that is located between the wings via a couple of dowels in each wing. Left it simple so folks who don't want something more abstract aren't left out.... if people want tsomething more, they can easily modify the included bases to something that suits them.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187361)
Here a couple with the front grill frame/cloth in place
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187365)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187366)
From front of wing to rear of base is just shy of 14" ( depth of a dual sub cab with no overhang).
Hang on for pricing, I'll notify when I can
jay
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Here is the monitor version ...
Is this version going to be available before the huge January price increases?
Steve
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Is this version going to be available before the huge January price increases?
Steve
Any increases in tariffs to 25% is in limbo for the next 80 days or so.
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Here is the monitor version with a base that is located between the wings via a couple of dowels in each wing. Left it simple so folks who don't want something more abstract aren't left out.... if people want tsomething more, they can easily modify the included bases to something that suits them.
Here a couple with the front grill frame/cloth in place
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187365)
From front of wing to rear of base is just shy of 14" ( depth of a dual sub cab with no overhang).
Hang on for pricing, I'll notify when I can
jay
Jay,
Can we get an update? Are they still in line waiting for CNC.
Steve
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Yes, I have the material to do the first run.
I've been pretty busy sending out other stuff and getting the first pair of Super 7's done., been making a couple minor alterations to the way they go together to make it easier for folks. Will get on these for you guys.
Will try and get the cutting going
jay
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Jay,
Can we get an update? Are they still in line waiting for CNC.
Steve
Almost there folks. Will soon have 4 pairs in stock with the initial cuts, just waiting on a sheet of baffles now.
Here's a few pics with one of our baffles from the full Super 7, the kit's will all come with grill frames as well (have them here now but didn't think to include in pics). Grills and baffles are pre-drilled for 3/8x3/8 Nd cylinder magnets.
Wings will be rounded over on outer and inner edge for the kists.
Super simple for glue up, 3 dowels for baffle, 2 dowels on each side of base. Baffles will be mirrored for each kit to keep wiring symetritcal.
LOL, I didn't even have a pair of dual hframes on hand to plop this on top of for pics but they will fit nicely
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189149)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189150)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189151)
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Here's one with the round overs and a grill frame.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189405)
Here's how easy they go together...
Add dowels to one wing
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189406)
If this were being final assembled, add glue to the one edge of bafle, one side edge of base, front edge of base and install on dowels
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189408)
Add glue and dowels to opposite side of baffle and base then install 2nd wing:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189409)
Stand up and clamp.
With roundovers
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189410)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189411)
jay
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Since I have these on order I'm pretty excited to see this. Question: if I didn't want to commit to a glue up, would these baffles be viable just doweled together? That way I can use 'em before I decide (or not) to finish them.
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Shooting you a PM
As for the "test" run, it would work ok with these but not the full versions that have the subs builit in.
jay
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So what is the best way to order the Super 7 kit complete? Do I just call Danny at GR research and work out the details? Will it be up on the GR Research website soon? Tyson just convinced me I may be able to crawl out of the rabbit hole with these.
Thanks
Greg
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You can order it all through Danny if you wish, you can PM me or email me at captainhemo at shaw.ca if you have questions about the cabinets etc
jay
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Thank you. just placed the order with Danny.
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No, I have the original pair of NX-Otica's that I'm extremely fond of. And no, I have not heard the Super 7's .... yet .
I think the two speakers will be very similar in some regards although each will have it's advantages, Danny has commented on this publically a couple of times. One huge advantage of the Super 7's to me is the single foot print as compared to the Otica's and a pair of dual/triple subs.
Might have to let the Otica's go to help build out a pair of these and give them a shjot :(
jay
I was wondering the same. Anyone willing to point out where they have been compared?
And the flat packs look amazing - great job!
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:D being way to lazy to read ,, what are the full kits $$ ,,,, parts and wood ? :D
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:D being way to lazy to read ,, what are the full kits $$ ,,,, parts and wood ? :D
$4,400 for the complete kit and $1,600 for the flat pack.
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And just to clarify, that price is obviously for the full Super 7 kits/flat packs. the monitors are less. Trying to come in at $525 for the monitor flat pack.
Baffles were being cut today, should have stock onthese (monitors) by weeks end if all goes well.
full kits can be ordered now but a bit of lead time is needed before delivery
jay
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first run of monitors is ready to go, will hopefully get 3 pairs packed and shipped this week. Only one set left from original run. can cut more if there is interest.
Here's a pic of a couple sitting on pair of our dula-h-frames
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189910)
first few pairs of full super7's are in the que
jay
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:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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And just to clarify, that price is obviously for the full Super 7 kits/flat packs. the monitors are less. Trying to come in at $525 for the monitor flat pack.
Baffles were being cut today, should have stock onthese (monitors) by weeks end if all goes well.
full kits can be ordered now but a bit of lead time is needed before delivery
jay
Doing math, that’s $3275 plus ship for complete upper kit, correct ?
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Doing math, that’s $3275 plus ship for complete upper kit, correct ?
I get $2,925 plus shipping.
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I'm not sure of the exact pricing on the Neo10's or networks but, if you do the math roughly:
Neo10's say $210 x8 $1680
Neo3's 2 x $100 $ 200
flat Pack $ 525
So apprx $2405 + netwowrks, tube connectors, wire shipping etc
I'm guessing at those driver prices, didn't go look them up.
I think the last pair of monitors from the first run is now spoken for but not 100% sure. If there is interest, more will be cut.
jay
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Ah, minus the servo woofers and amps then $2,750. for the kit.
Jay threw out the number $525 for upper baffle. I threw out the question awhile back re upper driver kit, which apparently has changed from quote above, because $2750 plus $525 does not come to $2925. Do we have a price reduction ?
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I have re-crunched the numbers and can sell the Super-7 kit (upper only and no servo subs) for $2,400. Then the flat pack is $525. Plus shipping cost.
And I can do the full Super-7 kit for $4,200 and the flat pack is $1,600. Plus shipping cost.
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For what you get, performance wise w/the Super 7's, that's an amazing bargain.
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Hi Danny,
The Super 7 looks very interesting indeed! I have a few questions regarding the upper part kit (i.e., without servo subs) that I hope you will respond to:
1. What are the crossover point and slope(s) between the mid/high section?
2. What high-pass (frequency and slope) do you recommend for the Neo 10s, and is this included?
3. Can you use active filters for the high-pass to the Neo 10s? (i.e. no caps used)
4. What low-pass slope for the bass section should they be parred with (assuming a bass section that does not roll of by itself until further up the frequency band)
5. What is the sensitivity and power handling of the upper part section?
Thanks a lot!
Best regards
Peter
I get $2,925 plus shipping.
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Hi Danny,
The Super 7 looks very interesting indeed! I have a few questions regarding the upper part kit (i.e., without servo subs) that I hope you will respond to:
It would be really tough to make the upper section work without the servo subs. It will require drivers fast enough to match with the speed of the planars. Certainly no large diameter drivers are going to do that without servo control.
1. What are the crossover point and slope(s) between the mid/high section?
Second order, 180Hz range.
2. What high-pass (frequency and slope) do you recommend for the Neo 10s, and is this included?
Ideally just use an inline filter using a single capacitor prior to your amplifier. This keeps the cap value really small (less expensive) and it will have less adverse effect. The cap value needed will depend on the input impedance of your amp.
With small wattage amps you don't need to use any high pass filter at all.
3. Can you use active filters for the high-pass to the Neo 10s? (i.e. no caps used)
I would avoid any electronic style filters that put additional parts and A/C noise into the signal path.
4. What low-pass slope for the bass section should they be parred with (assuming a bass section that does not roll of by itself until further up the frequency band)
The servo subs and servo amp will do it all. There is a LOT of flexibility there that allow the drivers to blend, plus EQ of the woofer section to help control room issues.
Trying to blend the upper to anything else would be tough.
5. What is the sensitivity and power handling of the upper part section?
Sensitivity is 97db. And unless you need for your ears to bleed you won't ever need near enough power to stress the drivers.
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Hi Danny,
Thanks a lot for the quick reply!
You responded (regarding the mid/high crossover):
"Second order, 180Hz range."
Did you mean 1800 Hz?
You responded (regarding the high-pass of the Neo 10s):
"Ideally just use an inline filter using a single capacitor prior to your amplifier. This keeps the cap value really small (less expensive) and it will have less adverse effect. The cap value needed will depend on the input impedance of your amp."
So, a first order high-pass for the Neo 10s are sufficient. At what frequency point do the Neo 10s role off by themselves in the bass and at what slope?
And an additional Q: Is the phase response of the top section (Neo 10 + Neo 3) linear (or at least without any serious phase shifts)?
Thanks a lot again!
Best regards
Peter
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We finally spent an afternoon on the Super 7's. Primed and ready for another round of block sanding
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190270)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190271)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190272)
Getting closer to some color
You guys should start getting your S7 monitor kits this coming week.
jay
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Hi Danny,
Thanks a lot for the quick reply!
You responded (regarding the mid/high crossover):
"Second order, 180Hz range."
Did you mean 1800 Hz?
I was referring to the crossover point from the Neo 10's to the lower woofers.
The upper crossover is in the 2.5kHz range.
You responded (regarding the high-pass of the Neo 10s):
"Ideally just use an inline filter using a single capacitor prior to your amplifier. This keeps the cap value really small (less expensive) and it will have less adverse effect. The cap value needed will depend on the input impedance of your amp."
So, a first order high-pass for the Neo 10s are sufficient. At what frequency point do the Neo 10s role off by themselves in the bass and at what slope?
Yes, a first order electrical slope is all that is needed. The Neo 10's do have a natural roll off that starts about 250Hz. I'll post a response curve Monday when I get back to the office.
And an additional Q: Is the phase response of the top section (Neo 10 + Neo 3) linear (or at least without any serious phase shifts)?
There are no serious shifts in phase. It is quite linear.
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Hi Danny,
Thanks a lot for your replies!
Best regards
Peter
I was referring to the crossover point from the Neo 10's to the lower woofers.
The upper crossover is in the 2.5kHz range.
Yes, a first order electrical slope is all that is needed. The Neo 10's do have a natural roll off that starts about 250Hz. I'll post a response curve Monday when I get back to the office.
There are no serious shifts in phase. It is quite linear.
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Hi Danny,
Would it be possible to see the response curve of the Neo 10's in the Super 7 without any high-pass inserted?
Thanks a lot!
Best regards
Peter
Yes, a first order electrical slope is all that is needed. The Neo 10's do have a natural roll off that starts about 250Hz. I'll post a response curve Monday when I get back to the office.
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Hi Danny,
Would it be possible to see the response curve of the Neo 10's in the Super 7 without any high-pass inserted?
Thanks a lot!
Best regards
Peter
Here is the latest measurement on the new baffle. I didn't save any of the measurements prior to adding the filter.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/New%20Super-7%20crossover%20response.jpg)
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Hi Danny,
Thanks a lot for the graph - it looks great!
Is the measurement with or without a high-pass cap inserted on the Neo 10? If the measurement is without a high-pass cap inserted on the Neo 10, could you then please elaborate on what happens below 200 cycles?
Thanks a lot!
Best regards
Peter
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Hi Danny,
Thanks a lot for the graph - it looks great!
Is the measurement with or without a high-pass cap inserted on the Neo 10? If the measurement is without a high-pass cap inserted on the Neo 10, could you then please elaborate on what happens below 200 cycles?
That is without a high pass filter.
Below 200Hz it starts a natural roll of.
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Everyone is thinking it. Why use the neo 3 then if four tens graph well? Im missing something
Nvm. It is summed in graph.
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Hi Danny,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond!
Best regards
Peter
That is without a high pass filter.
Below 200Hz it starts a natural roll of.
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Everyone is thinking it. Why use the neo 3 then if four tens graph well? Im missing something
Nvm. It is summed in graph.
Why us a tweeter with the Neo 10's?
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Why us a tweeter with the Neo 10's?
For some reason I was thinking the red line was Neo 10s... and then the Neo 3 picked up.. but I wasn't coherent.... it is summed ...
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For some reason I was thinking the red line was Neo 10s... and then the Neo 3 picked up.. but I wasn't coherent.... it is summed ...
Ah,
And I could bring the level of the Neo 10's up a bit and flatten out the response a little more, but doing so makes them a bit forward and on the bright side. Dropping the level a bit over a wide range tends to soften them and help balance out the overall power response and room responses a little better for most rooms.
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oops, didn't see Danny's response on this page
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190597)
WOW!
I received my Super-7 upper kit today. Very well packed, great quality. Easy to assemble.
Everything is put together temporarily. I will prep and paint them when the weather warms up.
Impressive sound, even in a lousy room, I will play with placement on the weekend. I just
wanted to sit and listen tonight.
Steve
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190597)
WOW!
I received my Super-7 upper kit today. Very well packed, great quality. Easy to assemble.
Everything is put together temporarily. I will prep and paint them when the weather warms up.
Impressive sound, even in a lousy room, I will play with placement on the weekend. I just
wanted to sit and listen tonight.
Steve
NICE!!!! Congrats on getting such awesome speakers! When they were sold at retail for $20k, they were underpriced. People getting them for the kit price are getting the deal of the century!
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Cool Steve 8)
We still have the one flat pack from the original run if anyone is on the fence.....
jay
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Got mine last night. These are just dry fit together to see what they looked like on the dual H-frames.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190598)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190599)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190600)
Mike
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Hey Mike, are you building these for yourself? I am looking forward to your thoughts regarding these as compared to your NX Oticas.
I see your sides haven’t been rounded over, that would be my preference as well.
Best,
Ed
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Hey Mike, are you building these for yourself? I am looking forward to your thoughts regarding these as compared to your NX Oticas.
I see your sides haven’t been rounded over, that would be my preference as well.
Best,
Ed
Ed,
My plan is to cut the sides and base out of figured cherry to match the subs. I will use the sides and base from the kit as templates. Because of this, I asked Jay to not round the sides over. The pieces will work better as patterns with straight edges.
Now I have to find some 8/4 figured cherry and save up enough money for the rest of the kit
Mike
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FYI The kit from Danny comes with yarn for the tweeter. Reply #8 has pictures and instructions about how to modify the tweeter.
Steve
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152039.msg1626035#msg1626035
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I got my flat pack too! Woo hoo! I think I’m going to repaint my subs.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7827/33224101778_e6efa822fb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SBUcX1)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/SBUcX1) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
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FYI The kit from Danny comes with yarn for the tweeter. Reply #8 has pictures and instructions about how to modify the tweeter.
Steve
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152039.msg1626035#msg1626035
Glad that worked for you
jay
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A Super 7 monitor and dual h-frame fully prepped and ready to go to paint.
This set is going to be used as a center channel with a pair of Line forces.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191227)
jay
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A Super 7 monitor and dual h-frame fully prepped and ready to go to paint.
This set is going to be used as a center channel with a pair of Line forces.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191227)
jay
If it's a center channel it should look like the x-voce. :eyebrows: That would be the biggest center channel ever! :P
(Ok, I know that's not true. I'm pretty sure someone used an LS-9 as a center a while back.)
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Yeah, I believe Ruben built out a few of those... LSC IIRC
jay
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This set is going to be used as a center channel with a pair of Line forces.
Jay, does this mean that the line force is complete and available for purchase?
Thanks,
Ed
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yeah man, see the Line force thread, added some pics today.
We've got enough composite in stock to do another pair without having to order more. Will bring in more after the next pair is spoken for.
jay
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A few updated pics of the Super 7's build state...
Went with House of Kolor "tangerine for the side panels, the front baffles, the frontof the sub enclosures and the front braces
https://www.houseofkolor.com/kolors/detail/index.html?id=S2-KBC08&ref=kolors
A couple pics
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192204)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192205)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192206)
This is a deep kandy color, it is pretty cool. It can be pretty dark in dim light but man, when any light hits the edges, it POPs.
Still need to get the bases done in satin black and spray out the inside of the rear sub enclosures (satin black as well).
Getting there
jay
forgot the front baffles
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192208)
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Beautiful Jay. Looking forward to coming up to hear them some day. I didn't realize the painting was done before gluing them up.
Jeff
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Beautiful Jay. Looking forward to coming up to hear them some day. I didn't realize the painting was done before gluing them up.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff. The sun is poking through the window this am and man, it's crazy what the HOK paint does in the sunlight.
In many cases, we paint after asembly but with these and the Kandy color, we had to go this route to keep the color consistant.
With the lower rear subs section of the S7's being a separate sub assembly, it makes it pretty easy to do, hopefully I still say that after final glue up !
jay
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Are you painting these at the request of a customer? If so, what's the fee?
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Are you painting these at the request of a customer? If so, what's the fee?
No, these are staying here, at least for now .
We have a couple local painters we use, this guy specializes in the House of Kolor paints.
Costs can vary considerably depending on what the customer is looking for
jay
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Thanks Jeff. The sun is poking through the window this am and man, it's crazy what the HOK paint does in the sunlight.
In many cases, we paint after asembly but with these and the Kandy color, we had to go this route to keep the color consistant.
With the lower rear subs section of the S7's being a separate sub assembly, it makes it pretty easy to do, hopefully I still say that after final glue up !
jay
Jay,
You hit on my question. How are you going to assemble these seeing as glue doesn't stick to finished surfaces?
Mike
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There are a lot of different adhesives out there, won't be an issue.
I know one guy who glued the tops/bases on his triple h-frames after painting, I believe he used a clear silicone calk and he says they are never coming off.
Right now I'm planning on letting this paint cure for a bit then I'll clean out the dowel holes with a drill bit so the dowels are all wood to wood joints, will use yellow pva on them. Likely the clear silicone or Melamane on the painted surfaces.
jay
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There are a lot of different adhesives out there, won't be an issue.
I know one guy who glued the tops/bases on his triple h-frames after painting, I believe he used a clear silicone calk and he says they are never coming off.
Right now I'm planning on letting this paint cure for a bit then I'll clean out the dowel holes with a drill bit so the dowels are all wood to wood joints, will use yellow pva on them. Likely the clear silicone or Melamane on the painted surfaces.
jay
Let us know how well this works. I've been wondering how I am going to solidly fix the base and sides to the monitor baffle since I plan on painting the baffle but using solid wood for the sides and base. If there is an adhesive that will solidly bond a painted surface to wood I might only use wood for the sides and keep the base MDF.
Mike
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I don't think finding an adhsive to adhere to the paint will be an issue, both the above mentioned will . The question will be, how well is your paint adhering to the wood. If you don't have decent adhesion, the glue may pull the paint right off.
The dowels are going to help out as well.
jay
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Jay, those look amazing! :thumb: I'm partial to orange colors anyway.
Meanwhile, I'm over here looking at my Super 7 Monitors with either black, white, or a combo of both with Duratex. One way or another I will make it work.
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I don't think finding an adhsive to adhere to the paint will be an issue, both the above mentioned will . The question will be, how well is your paint adhering to the wood. If you don't have decent adhesion, the glue may pull the paint right off.
The dowels are going to help out as well.
jay
Jay,
Your right the bond strength is dependent on the paints adhesion. With the dowels aligning and holding the panels snug, why not use industrial strength double sided tape for the main adhesive instead of messing with any liquid adhesive that may react with the paint. Also, you won't have any clean-up.
I attached a skeg (long fin) to a wood strip racing kayak. It hung down 4" below the boat. It was on there for 3 years going over floating logs, and dragging through seaweed. It was a real bear to finally remove. Probably as strong or stronger than any glue. Removing it didn't damage the underlying varnished surface. The smoother the surface the better for the strongest adhesion, but I have had great experience even on bare wood.
3M has several DS tapes to choose from including one recommended for wood working.
https://www.uline.com/BL_6025/3M-Double-Sided-Polyester-Film-Tape
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Jay,
Your right the bond strength is dependent on the paints adhesion. With the dowels aligning and holding the panels snug, why not use industrial strength double sided tape for the main adhesive instead of messing with any liquid adhesive that may react with the paint. Also, you won't have any clean-up.
I attached a skeg (long fin) to a wood strip racing kayak. It hung down 4" below the boat. It was on there for 3 years going over floating logs, and dragging through seaweed. It was a real bear to finally remove. Probably as strong or stronger than any glue. Removing it didn't damage the underlying varnished surface. The smoother the surface the better for the strongest adhesion, but I have had great experience even on bare wood.
3M has several DS tapes to choose from including one recommended for wood working.
https://www.uline.com/BL_6025/3M-Double-Sided-Polyester-Film-Tape
Hey Larry
That's a pretty good idea, I will look into it. Would have to be very thin to keep from spreading panels apart but I'll check out what's available.
Just like the no rez, when you stick it to high gloss finish it is basically not coming off without a fight and that's without even applying any presure to it.
Love the no mess part, glues and paint scare me in this regard
jay
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Hey Larry
That's a pretty good idea, I will look into it. Would have to be very thin to keep from spreading panels apart but I'll check out what's available.
Just like the no rez, when you stick it to high gloss finish it is basically not coming off without a fight and that's without even applying any presure to it.
Love the no mess part, glues and paint scare me in this regard
jay
Jay,
Exactly like no-Rez, the pressure sensitive adhesives on these tapes are super strong. The one 3M lists for wood working is pretty thin at 4.8 mil. In comparison a human hair is 0.003"
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192264)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192265)
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I now have 100+ hours on my Super 7 uppers. They live up to their reputation. Fantastic imaging, amazing detail with world class bass.
It's like hearing your music collection with new ears. I was originally going to switch back and forth with my old speakers to eventually
decide which I liked better. I could tell after a few hours of burn in, that would not be necessary. The Super 7's do everything better.
My retirement system is shaping up. I just ordered the full size Super 7 kit from Danny. I'll spend some $$ on the finishing.
I'll worry about how to move them when the issue comes up.
You know those rooms at Audio shows where some amp is playing on $25K speakers that you love.
Well I finally have that sound at my house... thank you Danny.
Regards,
Steve
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I now have 100+ hours on my Super 7 uppers. They live up to their reputation. Fantastic imaging, amazing detail with world class bass.
It's like hearing your music collection with new ears. I was originally going to switch back and forth with my old speakers to eventually
decide which I liked better. I could tell after a few hours of burn in, that would not be necessary. The Super 7's do everything better.
My retirement system is shaping up. I just ordered the full size Super 7 kit from Danny. I'll spend some $$ on the finishing.
I'll worry about how to move them when the issue comes up.
You know those rooms at Audio shows where some amp is playing on $25K speakers that you love.
Well I finally have that sound at my house... thank you Danny.
Regards,
Steve
Steve, that is what I do all of this for. Stories like that keep me going and thinking about what can be next.
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I'm just glad others can finally hear the insane level of quality that the Super 7s bring to the table. Even after 14 years of going to RMAF, the Super 7s are still the best speaker I've ever heard, outside a couple crazy line source speakers.
-
Getting closer...
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7892/47442515641_63430cb020_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fhki2B)
GR Research Super 7 Monitor Kit (https://flic.kr/p/2fhki2B) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
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sooooooooooooo.........jealous...... :green:
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sooooooooooooo.........jealous...... :green:
When we have this pair done, you're more than wlcome to come out and hear them Perry. I know you have a relative close byso might work out well.
jay
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My father in law is in vancouver but he has a son in summerland.
They are both into audio, but my father in law is hardcore like me....lol
I'd love to come up, but still a bit early in the year for a mountain crossing.
Hoping youll have something when I do come up.
Thanks Jay
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WOW!
I received my Super-7 upper kit today. Very well packed, great quality. Easy to assemble.
Everything is put together temporarily. I will prep and paint them when the weather warms up.
Impressive sound, even in a lousy room, I will play with placement on the weekend. I just
wanted to sit and listen tonight.
Steve
Hey Steve,
How did you mount the Neo10’s? Did you use the gaskets?
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Hey Steve,
How did you mount the Neo10’s? Did you use the gaskets?
Rob,
No I did not use the gaskets. I remembered Danny mentioning gaskets not making a difference... hopefully that was in a thread talking about the Super 7s.
Steve
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We designed the new baffles to use the gaskets, I guess whether or not you do is up to you but I will be.
a couple different mounting depths were tried in the diferent prototypes.
jay
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So, after a marathon of painting, drying, mounting drivers, building crossovers, trouble shooting, etc they’re done! Right away they’re already the best speakers I’ve ever owned! Silky smooth and seamless. They’re not even broken in and they sound fantastic!
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7892/47442515641_63430cb020_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fhki2B)GR Research Super 7 Monitor Kit (https://flic.kr/p/2fhki2B) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7899/47404457082_4366f414b9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fdYexy) (https://flic.kr/p/2fdYexy) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7818/46734303334_ae08dfe5b6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ecKwbA) (https://flic.kr/p/2ecKwbA) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
I did end up using the gaskets.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7830/46753277554_e16bda8133_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eeqLyj) (https://flic.kr/p/2eeqLyj) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7926/47423776062_7cd70dd5cd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ffFfpq) (https://flic.kr/p/2ffFfpq) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7823/47423776102_aab8a18758_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ffFfq7) (https://flic.kr/p/2ffFfq7) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79446895@N00/)
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They look great Rob :thumb:
glad they went together well for you
jay
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So, after a marathon of painting, drying, mounting drivers, building crossovers, trouble shooting, etc they’re done! Right away they’re already the best speakers I’ve ever owned! Silky smooth and seamless. They’re not even broken in and they sound fantastic!
Welcome to the club! And trust me, they just get better and better.
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I dont remember this question ever being asked??
I have the HX300 amplifier and 8 ohm drivers, is there a correction circuit available or is one necessary to build Super 7 using HX300??
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I dont remember this question ever being asked??
I have the HX300 amplifier and 8 ohm drivers, is there a correction circuit available or is one necessary to build Super 7 using HX300??
The HX300 amps have an added shelving circuit for the open baffle driver applications.
What you have will work for the bottom end.
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The HX300 amps have an added shelving circuit for the open baffle driver applications.
What you have will work for the bottom end.
Thanks Danny, that's great news. Hmmmmm decisions decisions.......... :thumb:
Is 14' x 18' room dimensions sufficient to handle these?
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Thanks Danny, that's great news. Hmmmmm decisions decisions.......... :thumb:
Is 14' x 18' room dimensions sufficient to handle these?
My room is really not ideal as it's essentially a dining room in a small apartment. Nevertheless, they still sound amazing!
I'm going to be moving in the spring so hopefully I'll have a better room to put them in.
So to answer your question, yes, 14x18 is plenty of space for these.
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I run mine in a dedicated space in the basement, 19 x 13 and they are awesome.
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House of Kolor "tangerine
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192208)
Jay,
That color is growing on me more and more... as a vehicle color too. I was going to go with British Racing Green. But there is a deep rich candy red I like.
Post a picture when they are together. BTW how do you glue/clamp them without damaging the paint?
Steve
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192639)
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I run mine in a dedicated space in the basement, 19 x 13 and they are awesome.
Hey Steve
When we went to pick up the parts from our painter, he was all over the same thing... he is dying to paint a car in this color now.
It's growing on me me too, the more I see it, the more I like it .... and in the sun it's insane.
We're Likely going to use a high quality clear silicone to glue the painted surfaces with wood glue onthe wooden dowels into bare wood dowel holes. I know someone who did the same with pre-painted cabs andit worked very well. clamping will be an excercise in using caution.... only enough presure to seat things and no more. Will likely cut up some micro-weave fiber to wrap around the clamps as well.
I'll for sure post pics
jay
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Looking forward to pics of the construction process using silicone.
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Packing a couple of the full kits this week.
For anyone looking for magnets for these kits
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66-N52
for the monitor version, you'll need 16 , for the full S7 kit you'll need 32.
There are some lower grades for a less $ but they don't have enough pull force, use the N52's
jay
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Here's a couple updated pics of the pair we're building out here. Waiting on Neotech UPOCC wire then will build out networks and wire everything up.Will post more when we are done...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193246)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193247)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193251)
First 2 full flat packs are boxed and ready to ship this coming week
jay
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Jay,
How did it go gluing the pre-painted flat pack together? What adhesive did you use?
Jeff
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Jay,
How did it go gluing the pre-painted flat pack together? What adhesive did you use?
Jeff
Hey Jeff
Went fairly well, a bit more organized withthe 2nd cab.
we laid one wing on it's side on top of a nice soft blanket. then we cleaned out all the dowel holes with an 8mm bit. did the same with the dowel holes on the edges of the main baffle, the rear sub sub-asembly, and the front brace. We then glued all the dowels in to the baffle, sub-assembly, and brace with wood glue and laid out a nice layer of clear silicone on all the surfaces of the wing that would recieve the parts. finally we added a drop of wood glue to each dowel hole in the wing.
Next we positioned all the parts into the corresponding dowel holes.
When we did the 2nd wing, we did it the opposite to prevent glue drips... we glued the dowels into the wing and then added a drop of glue to each hole inthe parts . Applied silicone to al lthe joing areas of the parts and positioned the 1 nd wing.
We stood the cabinet up on it's base with dowels and clamped it in numerous spots, just tight enough to keep it all scinched up. We used cardboard and pieces of a micro weave cloth around each clamp to protect the paint.
Anoversight on my part, I didn't add screw holes tothe base nor the bottom edge of the wings like I've done with out other flat packs. the first couple pairs going out won't have them but I'm going to make an adjustment to all subsequent packs so that in addition to the 4 dowels, each base will also have 4 couinter sunk screws.
jay
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Thanks for the thorough explanation Jay. Sounds fairly simple, at least for an experienced wood worker like your self.
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Hi Captainhemo,
Could you please give me the dimensions of the baffel for the monitor version? Thanks!
Best regards
Peter
Here is the monitor version with a base that is located between the wings via a couple of dowels in each wing. Left it simple so folks who don't want something more abstract aren't left out.... if people want tsomething more, they can easily modify the included bases to something that suits them.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187361)
Here a couple with the front grill frame/cloth in place
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187365)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187366)
From front of wing to rear of base is just shy of 14" ( depth of a dual sub cab with no overhang).
Hang on for pricing, I'll notify when I can
jay
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What kind of tool complement am I going to need to put mine together?
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Hi Captainhemo,
Could you please give me the dimensions of the baffel for the monitor version? Thanks!
Best regards
Peter
Just over 27.5" (at center of top) x 13" x 1".
Then you have a 1.25" wing/side panel on either side.
What kind of tool complement am I going to need to put mine together?
Well, you're going to need a number of clamps, I would recommend at minimum 8 that will open at leat 13" as well as a few shorter ones you can use to clamp the inner sub walls/side panels at time of glue up. More is always better.
For the full kit, you'll need 32 3/8x3/8 N52 cylinder magnets as I posted above (link there).
You'll need a long punch of some sort to push the magnets ( way down into the braces and into the rear of the baffle ( these are not nearly as deep).
A hammer or rubber mallet of some sort for the above and to be sure dowels are seated... be gentle on the dowels.
Various grits of sandpaper, get a few sheets of 120, 220, and 320 /devent flat sanding block. A couple of those foam sanding blocks are handy for working the roundovers. How much a person does with regards to prep will greatly influence the finished cabinets.
Wood glue and either a small bottle of CA or something like Gorilla Glue for magnet installation.
Another person to help with glue up when the time comes
One of these days I'll post a couexploded views , one of the sub assembly, one of the full assembly to help with construction.
jay
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Jay,
What radii roundovers did you use on the outside and inside of the side wings?
Mike
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All 8 of those clamps, apparently, have to be used simultaneously?? Would the squeeze handle type be good enough? Do all 8 have to spread 13 inches?
-
.75" on outer edges, .25 on inner edges
Are you gonna have that pair of monitors ready for LSAF ?
jay
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All 8 of those clamps, apparently, have to be used simultaneously?? Would the squeeze handle type be good enough? Do all 8 have to spread 13 inches?
for the main glue up, yes, you'd be using them all at once and I'd saty you could get away with 7 that open at least 13" if yo had a couple pair that say did 6" for the back.
for the inner sub assembly, you would not need all 7-8 pairs
Yes, the squeeze grip ones will do, yo don't need a ton of force to clamp these up... everytihginis held in place via dowels you just need to keep it all snug while it dries
jay
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.75" on outer edges, .25 on inner edges
Are you gonna have that pair of monitors ready for LSAF ?
jay
Jay,
No can’t afford to build them out yet. I’ll have them by next year.
This is going to be an NX show. Danny will have the huge NX-Tremes with triple H-frames and I’ll have the diminutive Nx-Otica monitors with dual H-frames.
Mike
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Jay, do you know if the the midrange drivers (Neo 10) were not available a while back and now they are? Were they made by Bohlender Grabner? The reason I ask is PS Audio's new speakers, the AN3, uses a midrange that looks similar to the Neo 10, but I read they are no longer available and they are going to have to come up with something else.
-
Can I assume those magnets are strictly for the grills? Do they have to be inserted from the start or can they be done after the whole assembly is completed? I don't really want grills but may want them down the road.
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Jay, do you know if the the midrange drivers (Neo 10) were not available a while back and now they are? Were they made by Bohlender Grabner? The reason I ask is PS Audio's new speakers, the AN3, uses a midrange that looks similar to the Neo 10, but I read they are no longer available and they are going to have to come up with something else.
You’re correct. There was a time after Christy Digital bought out BG that the drivers were not available. Now they are available again.
The AN3 prototype PS Audio had at Axpona has a BG Neo10 for the midrange driver.
Mike
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Can I assume those magnets are strictly for the grills? Do they have to be inserted from the start or can they be done after the whole assembly is completed? I don't really want grills but may want them down the road.
They are indeed for the grills but, they DO need to be installed prior to glue up. All the holes but 2 will be covered up ... it's up to "you" to cover/plug the top 2 in the upper baffle. I left mine open in case I ever wanted to add 2 rear magnets and an upper rear grill...
jay
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Hi Captainhemo,
Thanks a lot for the dimensions!
I may have missed this, but what are the magnets for?
Best regards
Peter
Just over 27.5" (at center of top) x 13" x 1".
Then you have a 1.25" wing/side panel on either side.
Well, you're going to need a number of clamps, I would recommend at minimum 8 that will open at leat 13" as well as a few shorter ones you can use to clamp the inner sub walls/side panels at time of glue up. More is always better.
For the full kit, you'll need 32 3/8x3/8 N52 cylinder magnets as I posted above (link there).
You'll need a long punch of some sort to push the magnets ( way down into the braces and into the rear of the baffle ( these are not nearly as deep).
A hammer or rubber mallet of some sort for the above and to be sure dowels are seated... be gentle on the dowels.
Various grits of sandpaper, get a few sheets of 120, 220, and 320 /devent flat sanding block. A couple of those foam sanding blocks are handy for working the roundovers. How much a person does with regards to prep will greatly influence the finished cabinets.
Wood glue and either a small bottle of CA or something like Gorilla Glue for magnet installation.
Another person to help with glue up when the time comes
One of these days I'll post a couexploded views , one of the sub assembly, one of the full assembly to help with construction.
jay
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Attaching the grill frame(s)
jay
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Thanks!
Best regards
Peter
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Jay,
If I assembled the flat packs myself and then took them somewhere to have painted, what kind of shops would do that work? Auto body or some other type of specialty paint place? Before going down this road, would want to find out where this work could be done locally and get an estimate of the cost.
Jeff
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Yeah, some body shops wil work with you . We use 2 different ones, both do great jobs but one guys specializes in real custom stuff and only shoots House of Kolor products. Hours add up really fast so the better you can prep the cabinets yourself, the less hours they'll have to put into prep.
We also have a guy who specializes in furniture repair/restoration as well as new windows. he can spray lacquar and still gets a really nice finish but he's limited to more "basic" colors. His costs are lower .
If you can't find what you want locally, let us know... maybe we can work something out so you pick up a finished bare cabinets
jay
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Thanks Jay
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Roughly how many square feet of surface area on these? I'm trying to figure out how many cans of spray paint I'll need for one coat (as a baseline). Krylon Primer+Paint is about $6 a can for 25 sq feet. House of Color (see above Tangerine) is 6 times that much. Thanks.
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Roughly how many square feet of surface area on these? I'm trying to figure out how many cans of spray paint I'll need for one coat (as a baseline). Krylon Primer+Paint is about $6 a can for 25 sq feet. House of Color (see above Tangerine) is 6 times that much. Thanks.
I'm going to guess around 25 square feet - driver cutouts per speaker per coat.
Remember, if you are thinking of using the House of Kolor tangerine, it is a Kandy (translucent) paint as many HOK colors are. You need to apply a base coat then multiple layers of the Kandy followed by a high quality clear like the HOK Show Clear.
jay
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I'm sure its been said quite a few times but Captainhemo does amazing work. The Super 7s are my second flat pack from him and you get way more than what you pay for.
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I'm sure its been said quite a few times but Captainhemo does amazing work. The Super 7s are my second flat pack from him and you get way more than what you pay for.
I second that. Everything fit excellently on the stuff I recently put together.
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I also just put together my super 7 flatpack from Jay. It was a perfect fit, I also glued it up with no help, just make sure you have plenty of clamps.
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Thanks guys, glad they are going together well for everyone.
for you guys who are waiting patiently, we apologize for a couple hicups but we're making progress on getting caught up onthese
jay
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Getting there....
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194161)
And to go with the custom Uber my buddy dave over at PI Audio recently built and surprised me witha custom tamo Ash case, had to build some amp boxes out of the same
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194162)
jay
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Looks really good Jay!
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Looks really good Jay!
thanks Rich, wish I could capture how the paint actually looks...
this may be be a bit better but still not what one sees in room
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSEQtbK-lY
jay
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Very cool Jay, I love the colors you have picked for your last two speakers, tangerine and tequila sunrise, terrific! Those amp cases are gorgeous as well. Looking forward to your thoughts regarding the sound.
Best,
Ed
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Can you get by without using no-rez on the fronts? Hate to see any of that paint covered.
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Looking good Jay, reminds me of the Tequila Sunrise Oticas that are sounding awesome in my listening room (and I don't even have proper electronics yet)! Thanks again for such a wonderful listening session at Don's place, you guys are the ultimate hosts! My wife was just recounting our visit to some friends here in Wenatchee, it was her first trip to Canada and you guys set the bar really high! Subs went together perfectly but we have not painted them yet. I did finally pick up some clamps so the amp boxes will get assembled this weekend if all goes according to plan.
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Thanks Ed. Yes, the colors are similar but different... these are a bit more intense, especaill when the sun hits them or even how the room lights reflect on the edges I'd say. Amp boxes are coming along, a couple more sessions with the danish oil and they should be good. All filled up with oil / Tamo Ash slurry. I may not even top coat them... we'l see.
nrenter, , I know how much those woofers load the h-frames so I'll be using the no-rez. Kind of a shame to cover it up but there will still be lots of color visible :)
Looking good Jay, reminds me of the Tequila Sunrise Oticas that are sounding awesome in my listening room (and I don't even have proper electronics yet)! Thanks again for such a wonderful listening session at Don's place, you guys are the ultimate hosts! My wife was just recounting our visit to some friends here in Wenatchee, it was her first trip to Canada and you guys set the bar really high! Subs went together perfectly but we have not painted them yet. I did finally pick up some clamps so the amp boxes will get assembled this weekend if all goes according to plan.
Hey John, so glad to hear you've got the Otica's up and running and are enjoying them. They are a great set of speakers. Also good to know you've got the subs all glued up and had no issues.
Feeling is mutual , you two were great company, we had a really good time too !! If you are ever back up this way, be sure to call or email .
jay
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Can you get by without using no-rez on the fronts? Hate to see any of that paint covered.
I would love to hear any input on this as well. I definitely want the benefits that the No-Rez provides, but there has got to be a way to make the exposed No-Rez look a bit better (doesn't there?). Even something over the front facing edges would help.
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I remember when Tyson stated that adding the no - rez to his super7's makde a signifigant improvement and cleaned up the bottom end somewhat.
You can miter cut the no-rez to give a different look
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194205)
I'll end up having the full length grills in place half the time ... I usually remove them for any serious listening but for day to tday , I've often had them in place with other speakers
jay
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I remember when Tyson stated that adding the no - rez to his super7's makde a signifigant improvement and cleaned up the bottom end somewhat.
You can miter cut the no-rez to give a different look
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194205)
I'll end up having the full length grills in place half the time ... I usually remove them for any serious listening but for day to tday , I've often had them in place with other speakers
jay
Enough with the foreplay Jay! Time to hear the comparisons of these beauties versus your older NX-Oticas. Give it to us straight bro!
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There are a lot of different adhesives out there, won't be an issue.
I know one guy who glued the tops/bases on his triple h-frames after painting, I believe he used a clear silicone calk and he says they are never coming off.
Right now I'm planning on letting this paint cure for a bit then I'll clean out the dowel holes with a drill bit so the dowels are all wood to wood joints, will use yellow pva on them. Likely the clear silicone or Melamane on the painted surfaces.
jay
What brand of caulk did you end up using?
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DAP Premium.
I used wood glue on all the dowels and dowel holes after cleaning out .
I know I've said it before but don't forget to put your magnets in before glue up !!
Also, I was talking to a Titebond (Franklin) rep and he was telling me there is some new glue/formula out that will stick well to smooth surfaces... I did not get a name for it but am going to look into it. Remeber too, the silicone will stick, just have to make sure you have good adhesion between the paint and substrate.
jay
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...
You can miter cut the no-rez to give a different look
.....
The front and corner bevels look great. I saw someone else do a 1/2 flat - 1/2 bevel on the fronts that also looked great.
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Jay,
Do you have some pictures with the Grills for these. The front is mostly hidden by the Grill isn't it?
Steve
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Enough with the foreplay Jay! Time to hear the comparisons of these beauties versus your older NX-Oticas. Give it to us straight bro!
Ron, they aren't quite done yet . still need to wire up the 2nd speaker (this wekend) and am finishing the sub amp boxes so that I can get the A370's mounted
The front and corner bevels look great. I saw someone else do a 1/2 flat - 1/2 bevel on the fronts that also looked great.
Yes, folks have cut the no-rez in different ways to produce different looks, lots of ideas out there. I left these pieces a bit longer thanb normal to get as much of the hard damping layer contacting the panels as possible.... i bevel cut the rear edge just like the front to provide ample woofer clearence .
Steve, I don't have the grills wrapped yet but yes, they do cover most o fthe front . The very top of the baffle (rounded section, is left exposed as are the front edges of the side panels.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183335)
jay
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Eneded up doing a few more sessions of grain filling then finished everything off with 3 satin top coats
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194380)
Will post a fw pics of everything finished up in a day or so
jay
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Wow, those came out great, you continue to amaze me.
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I like the look of this partial miter cut as mentioned previously. Found the pict and thread.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150675)
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.msg1558158#msg1558158 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.msg1558158#msg1558158)
Eneded up doing a few more sessions of grain filling then finished everything off with 3 satin top coats
...
Those amp boxes look fantastic.
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I like the look of this partial miter cut as mentioned previously. Found the pict and thread.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150675)
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.msg1558158#msg1558158 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.msg1558158#msg1558158)
Those amp boxes look fantastic.
The NoRez in this picture is both mitered and beveled. I've done it this way for a client and to me it looks neater than square cut but it used about 1/3 more NoRez than straight cut so order extra NoRez.
Mike
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Eneded up doing a few more sessions of grain filling then finished everything off with 3 satin top coats
Will post a fw pics of everything finished up in a day or so
jay
Jay, that looks awesome! Really nice work :thumb:
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Thanks guys.
The 7's are up and running now, getting them dialed in and they are soudning great. Soundstage is impressive... I thought they might give some up to the Otica's here but so far, we're all good. Just doing some sub and placement tweakeing .
Today has been the best soudning day.. hurs, tweaks, position... I don't know but they are sounding ood and I'm continuing to make adjustments
Pics soon
jay
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Jay, any updates as far as how they are sounding? Really interested to hear your take on them compared to the NX-oticas.
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Jay, any updates as far as how they are sounding? Really interested to hear your take on them compared to the NX-oticas.
I'm going to take some final pics soon and post some impressions. I'm getting quite a few hours on them now and am really enjoying them. thought I was going to miss the imaging of the Otica's but so far so good. The speed and detail of the Neo's is pretty incredible.
jay
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I'm going to take some final pics soon and post some impressions. I'm getting quite a few hours on them now and am really enjoying them. thought I was going to miss the imaging of the Otica's but so far so good. The speed and detail of the Neo's is pretty incredible.
jay
Jay,
What do the Otica’s do better?
Mike
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I'm going to take some final pics soon and post some impressions. I'm getting quite a few hours on them now and am really enjoying them. thought I was going to miss the imaging of the Otica's but so far so good. The speed and detail of the Neo's is pretty incredible.
jay
Yes!!! Speed and detail is among the best I've heard. The very cool thing is that the speakers never, ever sound cold or analytical. You get that crazy detail, that huge soundstage and that flawless mid/tweeter integration with zero hardness, harshness or edge of any kind.
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The Super 7's are Super Smooth and can rock just fine.
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Jay,
Any updates on your thoughts of the Super 7s and NX-Oticas? What are you hearing and what are the strengths of those awesome speaker systems?
Thanks,
Ken
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soon man, meant to get back to this tonight but got tied up with the hockey game.
Loved the Lela and blues story, so cool and what an incredible run by St Louis :thumb: :thumb:
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Just wanted to give Jay Kudos for doing an outstanding job on the flat packs. The packaging was bombproof and the assembly fit together like a Swiss watch. Two people assembling and clamping would have been a little easier but I did it without help and I am by no means a woodworker.
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These are finally all finished up now so a few final pics, possibly some ideas for folks who are building these from packs or who want finished cabs.
Here you can see we mounted both the tube connectors as well as a female Speekon conector for the subs at the rear edge of the side panels. On the inside , I peeled back the foam of the norez so the wiring could be tucked away nice and neat. After wiring, some spray adhesive sticks the foam down and it's all hidden away.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196661)
Crossovers are built on some 3/8" Medex and painted with bed liner to match the Duratex'd rear sub cabinets. We glued a sheet of 1/4" Sorbathane to the botom of each board and trimmed to match the boards. We used Clarity CMR caps for the high pas filter bypassed with Milflex Cu and a Gortz Alpha Core foil inductor.
Low pass filter consists of a Gortz Alpha Core foil inductor and a soniccap G1 bypased with the Milflex Cu. The notch filter was left as is.
Wiring from the tube connectors to the networks and then on to the drivers is all Neotech UPOCC solid 16 in Teflon. The input wires to the networks come up through the top of the rear sub cabinet and enter through the bottom of the c/o board right at the high pass cap and low pass inductor.. Boards are secured via 4 hex driver screws ( had some kicking around for the SW12's)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196662)
Found some cool little wiring clips on Amazon to route wiring up right against the wing. they come with some 3M PSA on the back of each one so easy to install. I could only use them on the tweeter and top 2 Neo10's, they were a touch small for fitting the entire bundle in the lower Neo10's. Need to find some larger ones for those
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196671)
All the Neo10 screw holes were tapped (M3.5 non-bottoming tap) before mounting each Neo10 & gasket with some hex drive M3.5 x 12mmmachine screws
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196675)
The amp boxes were wrapped in some Tamo Ash veneer to match a custom Uber bus from Dave over at PI Audio. the boxes are also fitted with femaile Speekon Connectors. A patch cable was made for each speaker with a male Speekon Connector on each end , you can see it above in the first pic. The boxes were finished in danish oil topped with Satin Arm R Seal
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196672)
We finally got to the grills, well , Don did. He got the hang of it pretty quick, he's even got the rear side nice and neat. He cut the cloth slightly oversized then sprayed the entire rear side of the grill frame with spray adhesive. Stick the cloth all the way down one side before stretching it across the front and up and over the other edge. Once the 2 sides were stuck, he repeated for the ends. trim the excess from the corners with a sharp razor and then work the corners until you get them tight with no bunching. Last but not least, trim all the way around the inside edge of the grill frame with the razor.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196658)
The 6 N52 3/8 x 3/8 cylinder magnets do a great job of holding them in place... in fact, you need to be a little careful when removing them as you don't want to snap a grill frame !
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196659)
And one without the grills
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196660)
And yes, I know.. promised a bit of a write up in regards to the S7's / Otica's....keep meaing to do it ....
jay
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Look fabulous Jay!
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Those look amazing Jay. They look like they sound like a million bucks! :thumb: it’s a shame to cover up that paint job but the grill really finishes them out nicely. Beautiful speakers.
Best,
Ed
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It might be cool to have the grill in 2 pieces, one for the top section and one for the bottom. That way you could take off the top portion and see the aesthetically nice part of the speaker, will keeping the bottom section covering the less nice looking bottom norez section.
And those look awesome, BTW.
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It might be cool to have the grill in 2 pieces, one for the top section and one for the bottom. That way you could take off the top portion and see the aesthetically nice part of the speaker, will keeping the bottom section covering the less nice looking bottom norez section.
And those look awesome, BTW.
That's a great idea Tyson.
And yes, phenomenal!!!!
Question: what would a fully assembled pair similar to this one cost?
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Tyson, the split grills were thought about but it's tough when you're trying to put together a kit that will work for everyone, not an easy task. Kind of the same thing regarding the tube connectors / speekon connector... had we pre-drilled those holes in the side panel, there'd be unhappy customers who didn't want them there. Nice thing about a kit is that folks can tailor things to suit their personal preferences. If someone wants something customized, we can likely accomadate them , it just takes time.
Morgan, cost for a fully asembled, ready to play pair would likely end up somewhere between $10 - $14 kdepending on cross over parts selection, paint etc etc. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the above pair is painted in House of Kolor Tangerine Kandy... there's 5 layers of it followed by a few coats of the HOK Show Clear. This type of finish adds up on it's own butyou get an amazing finish. Pics do not do it justice. We have a painter who sprays lacuqr as well, far less expensive but much more basic color selection. He still does a great job, it's just different. Actually, the satin black bases on these were done by him as were the Line Force speakers in another thread. (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159717.80)
Remember too, these originally retailed for approx $20k, upgraded networks, wire etc would have all been an additional cost.
jay
jay
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Tyson, the split grills were thought about but it's tough when you're trying to put together a kit that will work for everyone, not an easy task. Kind of the same thing regarding the tube connectors / speekon connector... had we pre-drilled those holes in the side panel, there'd be unhappy customers who didn't want them there. Nice thing about a kit is that folks can tailor things to suit their personal preferences. If someone wants something customized, we can likely accomadate them , it just takes time.
Morgan, cost for a fully asembled, ready to play pair would likely end up somewhere between $10 - $14 kdepending on cross over parts selection, paint etc etc. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the above pair is painted in House of Kolor Tangerine Kandy... there's 5 layers of it followed by a few coats of the HOK Show Clear. This type of finish adds up on it's own butyou get an amazing finish. Pics do not do it justice. We have a painter who sprays lacuqr as well, far less expensive but much more basic color selection. He still does a great job, it's just different. Actually, the satin black bases on these were done by him as were the Line Force speakers in another thread. (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159717.80)
Remember too, these originally retailed for approx $20k, upgraded networks, wire etc would have all been an additional cost.
jay
jay
Even at the original cost of $20k, they were underpriced, particularly when compared to the performance level and cost of other top line speakers. Basically the Super 7s spanked pretty much everything at RMAF and based on performance alone should probably have been priced at $30k originally. If they'd been made by a mainstream company it probably would be closer to $50k. Yeah, they're that good.
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I envy you guys who have the skill to do such fine work. If I was going to spend 20K or more on speakers I'm 100% confident I could buy these without hearing them and just be done with it once and for all. :thumb:
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Has anybody made just the top half of the Super 7's? I think I remember it being mentioned when these became available again of offering just the tweeter/midrange section for those who may already have servo subs so just wondering if anybody has actually done that.
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Has anybody made just the top half of the Super 7's? I think I remember it being mentioned when these became available again of offering just the tweeter/midrange section for those who may already have servo subs so just wondering if anybody has actually done that.
Yep. Go back to page 9.
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Yep. Go back to page 9.
Awesome, thank you! How much was the kit for those?
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$2400 plus shipping for drivers and crossovers
$525 plus shipping for cabinets
They make me very happy! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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we have the s7 monitors in stock but price is $550 + shipping
I'm sure Rob and a couple others will verify they are very easy to assemble and don packs them up so that they are basically bomb proof... they'll arive safe and sound !
We can send out asembled cabinets as well but shipping costs increase due to box sizes.
jay
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I envy you guys who have the skill to do such fine work. If I was going to spend 20K or more on speakers I'm 100% confident I could buy these without hearing them and just be done with it once and for all. :thumb:
If you are ever serious about a pair John let me know, sure we can do you a fully built pair for signifigantly less
jay
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I stand corrected. Still a great price for what you get! :thumb:
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If you are ever serious about a pair John let me know, sure we can do you a fully built pair for signifigantly less
That would be awesome, especially if they are finished at that level. :D
Unfortunately my Tinnitus has escalated to an almost intolerable level. Over the past six weeks or so I haven’t been able to sit down and enjoy music - at any volume. Desperate for some relief.
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Hey folks
With these new full S7 kits you can follow this wiring info I grabbed from a post I did with wiring instructions/diagrams for most of the more common configurations.
This is the one you want for these new S7's
DUALS WITH BOTH WOOFERS FACING FORWARD
Driver Coils
Big red lead from A370 to lower woofer + driver coil, then from there to upper woofer + driver coil.
Big black lead from amp to lower woofer - driver coil, then from there to upper woofer - driver coil.
Driver coil wiring done.
Servo Coils
Small red wire from amp to lower woofer + servo coil
Run a wire from the lower woofer - servo coil to the upper woofer + servo coil
Finally, run the small black wire from the amp to the upper woofer - servo coil.
Servo coils done.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161051)
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We have the Subparts covered. Is there a price for the hardware top half only?
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Can I buy Super 7 uppers? That would mean we could rotate 3 different types.
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Yes, we have the S7 monitors in stock.
jay
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PM headed in towards you. thx
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captaihemo at shaw.ca
jay
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thank you
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S7 moniters are here. Time to get moving.
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Jay,
So what do you hear as the differences between the NX-Oticas and the Super 7? And If I went the Super 7 monitor and OB Sub platform route how do you think that differs in sound from the Super 7?
Thanks!
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Jay,
So what do you hear as the differences between the NX-Oticas and the Super 7? And If I went the Super 7 monitor and OB Sub platform route how do you think that differs in sound from the Super 7?
Thanks!
The two versions of Super 7 shouldn’t sound any different but having separate monitors makes for much easier moving.
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Jay,
So what do you hear as the differences between the NX-Oticas and the Super 7? And If I went the Super 7 monitor and OB Sub platform route how do you think that differs in sound from the Super 7?
Thanks!
There are differences but I'm not sure they are as dramatic as people may think.
First off, the Super 7's ( full towers or monitors) are more dfficient, say 96 vs approx 92. The Super 7's , again, full tower or sub/monitor combo, will take up less real-estate in your room than the full NX-Otica and a pair of h-frames.
The Super 7's are defiitely what I would cal lfaster than the NX-oticas, especially in the mid range when you are listening to stringed instraments. Not knocking the Otica's here in any way but man, the Super 7's are so clean and detailed in this area. The NX Otica's I'd say offer up a bit more "body" or " fullness" in the vocal department, I love how the NQ's do this.. Another thing I reall y liked about the NX-Oticas was the 4 M165/M165X drivers covering from say 75hz -180 ish hz region. They definitely provide a lot of impact and realizm in the upper bass/lower midrange area that I don't feel the Super 7's quite match.
With both speakers having the GR Neo 3 mounted in waveguides and basically aligned with the voice coils of the midrange drivers, both sets integreate mids/highs extremely well. Same tweeter used in both so the upper end is very similar... the NX-Otica is ina slighlty deeper waveguid and being slightly less efficient, use a small resistor to pad down the tweeter while the S7 tweeter is run wide open.
I was worried I was going to give up someimaging when I moved to the Super7's (13" wide baffle + 1.25" side wing on either side vs NX Otica 8.5" baffle with .5" radius on each side) but I have not found that to be the case. In fact, sometimes I feel the S7's may image a bit deeper than the Otica's did. I don't have the Otica's hear any longer so I can't physically do any a/b swaps and report on them..... wish I could as it's hard to make comparisons from membery.
With the Otica's and subs (full Oticas), you'll get a bit more flexability ith regards to sub placement. Withthe Super 7's, youi're locked into subplacement being fully dependent on where you want the speakers, and that goes for the monitor version as well as with the high sub / midrange c/o point, you want to keep the subs / MTM's completely on top of each other. Youi're corssing signifigantly lower with the Oticas so moving the subs and having a bit of space between them and the mains is not such a big deal.
Don't under estimate either set of these speakers, youi're going to be impressed when listening to either . To try and make that a bit clearer but not likely help you choose would be to say , " am I glad I now own the Super7's? " , Yes I am, I love them ! But, at the same time " Woiuld I be disappointed if I had heard the Super7's and owned the NX-Otica's/dual h-frames ?" No, not at all :thumb:
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is the transparehncy of both models. Both of these speakers ( it's actually a trait of the GR speakers) just disappear into the room when you get them dialed in. Came in for a glass of vino after a day in the shop and am listening to some tunes...... you can close you esyes and there are s imply no spekaers in the room, just music. And, without having the NX Otica's on hand, I can say it is a trait they have as well, I remember it well.
Promised myself I was gonna catch up on some house work and cook a decent dinner this eve but ..... now I'm stuck in here and probably going nowhere fast LOL
jay
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Jay really nailed it. That is a very detailed and spot on comparison.
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Thank you Jay for your detailed thoughts. This is very helpful.
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Jay really nailed it. That is a very detailed and spot on comparison.
No, what he really nailed was getting stuck in the music with a glass of wine and great sound. It’s my favorite thing to be late for work for. Well, without the wine anyway. It’s just so awesome to be lost in the music, the psychological and the physical aspects together.
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No, what he really nailed was getting stuck in the music with a glass of wine and great sound. It’s my favorite thing to be late for work for. Well, without the wine anyway. It’s just so awesome to be lost in the music, the psychological and the physical aspects together.
:wink: :wine:
jay
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Jay - Thanks for the detailed summary regarding the differences between the NX-Oticas and the Super-7s. These are the two designs that really intrigue me. I'm leaning toward the Super-7s because I like the one-box design and the styling, and have always been a fan of planar drivers.
All the Super-7s I've seen photos of are painted. Do you think it's reasonable to considering veneering the side panels (and maybe the top of the baffle where it's exposed above the grill), or do the curves make this impractical?
Thanks,
another Jay
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Hi Jay
Sorry, I missed this post somehow.....
Veneering the side panels would be tricky due to all the rounded edges that follow the curves of the cabinet Woiuld probably be better making the wings from hardwood if that's the route you want to go.
jay
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Hi Jay -
No worries. Thanks for the reply.
I spent a while perusing the forums to try to get a handle on the pros and cons of the Super-7s vs the NX-Oticas and decided to go with the NX-Oticas. I placed my order a few days ago.
I'll be wanting a set of triple-12 OB flatpacks to go with them at some point in the next few months, but want to get the NX-Oticas at least underway before I get these on order.
Can't wait. From everything I've read and seen in photos/videos, you do amazing work with these flatpacks.
Cheers,
Jay
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Hi Jay -
No worries. Thanks for the reply.
I spent a while perusing the forums to try to get a handle on the pros and cons of the Super-7s vs the NX-Oticas and decided to go with the NX-Oticas. I placed my order a few days ago.
I'll be wanting a set of triple-12 OB flatpacks to go with them at some point in the next few months, but want to get the NX-Oticas at least underway before I get these on order.
Can't wait. From everything I've read and seen in photos/videos, you do amazing work with these flatpacks.
Cheers,
Jay
Ahh, ok. I talked to Danny briefly about your pack late last week. Getting it all ready to go this week, just need to pick up some new cardboard. Everthing else is in stock so just a matter of getting the boxes "stamped" out.
Give me a heads up when you want , or are getting close to wanting the triples .... I do have to get some cutting in to get a pair of those ready to go
Will need to shoot some emails/phone call back and forth when you're at the sub point to determine how you want them configured / edge finishing etc.
jay
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Oops, wrong thread.