[Jaytor]

Didn't mean to offend Danny. I was assuming no subs since he posted in this thread, and with the opening to the dining area reducing bass reinforcement, and looking into the rear of the speaker, it seemed to me NX-Otica wouldn't be the ideal choice. An OB sub or two would certainly make a difference though.

In the right room, with the stereo subs, I can't think of another speaker system that comes close to the sound of the NX-Oticas for the price (or even several times the price). Although I haven't heard the Line Force yet. 

The more time I have with them, the happier I am that I decided to take plunge, sound unheard, to build a set.

[Captainhemo]

They are a great   speaker 
I've had the Super 7's up and runing for almost a year  now and would have no   issues if for some reason I had to go back  to the Otica's....   would I coose to, probably  not but at the same time I wouldn't consider such a move a  "step  back/down".  Just  differnt animals

jay

jay

[Zitoun]

Eeeek!

Tyson is correct.

And with the addition of OB subs it should give the flexibility to make it work really well.

So GReat news I solved my Acoustic issues in about a week with the Audiocircle folks, Thanks to them !.

Now I have this new setup, and it works well, the question is Will I need a sub in this room knowing that I already got great bass with B&W 686 bookshelves and Digital APO EQ Loudness activated ?
The room dimensions are below:
Original thread on Acoustic problem https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167755.20

[mlundy57]

So GReat news I solved my Acoustic issues in about a week with the Audiocircle folk, Thanks to them !.

Now I have this new setup, and it works well, the question is Will I need a sub in this room knowing that I already got great bass with B&W 686 bookshelves and Digital APO EQ Loudness activated ?
The room dimensions are below:
Original thread on Acoustic problem https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167755.20

If you want full range sound (down to 20Hz) then yes, you need a sub. However, if you are happy with the bass output you have then no, you don't need a sub. It comes down to personal preference.

Mike

[Tyson]

If you're in a condo or a duplex (it looks like you are), then avoid a sub.  Bass that low goes through walls like they aren't even there.  Unless you want to piss off your neighbors.

[howard1818]

Now you tell me just got the flat pack for the dual OB sub.

[mlundy57]

Now you tell me just got the flat pack for the dual OB sub.

OB subs won’t bother your neighbors. They don’t pressurize the room like sealed or ported subs do

[Tyson]

Now you tell me just got the flat pack for the dual OB sub.

Mike is right - OB subs will be fine.  It's boxed subs that pulse and pressurize the room & spill over to the neighbors.

[howard1818]

That's great to hear. After hearing Tyson's system it made sense for me to do this and fill in the gap I didn't realize was there.

[Captainhemo]

That's great to hear. After hearing Tyson's system it made sense for me to do this and fill in the gap I didn't realize was there.

Im betting you'll be wanting a  2nd one soon enough  Howard... ob in stereo is  primo   

jay

[Zitoun]

If you want full range sound (down to 20Hz) then yes, you need a sub. However, if you are happy with the bass output you have then no, you don't need a sub. It comes down to personal preference.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I guess my question is more around the ratio room size / lowest frequency response audible. Is there a way to calculate how low the oticas on their own will go in a specific room size ?, and will this be consistent over all type of music? Or it's more about luck, trial and error ?
Cheers,

[Jaytor]

Your new room layout should give you better bass from the NX-Oticas without subs, particularly with a bit of bass boost equalization. If your happy with the bass from your bookshelf speakers, you'll probably be more than happy with the NX-Oticas.

The NX-Oticas have exceptional mid-to-upper bass so things like bass guitar, drums, and deep male vocals have excellent energy and impact. Probably the best I've heard in this area.

That said, with music that goes deep, the stereo OB subs are to die for. The clarity, speed, and naturalness of the bass is fabulous. But there is a lot of great music out there that doesn't go so low that you'd really miss not having them. So it all depends on the type of music you like and how important really deep bass is to your enjoyment of the music.

You can always start with the NX-Oticas and add the subs later. Or start with one sub and add the second down the line.

[Jaytor]

I don't think there is any way to predict the exact bass extension you'll get based on room dimensions since it will depend a lot on speaker position, materials used for floor, walls and ceiling, what kind of furniture you have in there room, etc. But since your new layout reduces the distance between the speakers and sidewalls (particular near the left speaker), this will definitely reduce the rolloff.

The bass extension you get will not be dependent on the type of music, but how noticable the rolloff is certainly will.

[Zitoun]

But there is a lot of great music out there that doesn't go so low that you'd really miss not having them. So it all depends on the type of music you like and how important really deep bass is to your enjoyment of the music.

Good point,
I don't have any experience with these subs, I have always been limited by the vibration generated by boxed spekers, so no idea on what to expect,
Is this going low enough to get huge improvements ?
https://soundcloud.com/rusko/cockney-thug

[maty]

If you listen to this kind of music or bad recording you do not need to spend a lot of money in the audio system, and much less with this room. Very low DR -> you need few watts.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year?artist=Rusko


Yesterday, Tech Talk 32

YouTube GOOD Gear in BAD Rooms! with GR-Research

[Tyson]

Thanks Mike, I guess my question is more around the ratio room size / lowest frequency response audible. Is there a way to calculate how low the oticas on their own will go in a specific room size ?, and will this be consistent over all type of music? Or it's more about luck, trial and error ?
Cheers,

IMO the NX-Otticas need subs.  Obviously the NX-Ottica Towers plus OB subs get you the best performance.  But if it's a question of budget and/or space, I'd recommend getting the MTM bookshelf sized NX-Otticas and use a pair of OB subs as stands.  That saves money and saves space and still gets you excellent overall performance.

[Captainhemo]

As it's been pointed out, it really  depends onthe room whether or not you need the subs... see  my original post   (post 1 ) of this thread. 
My comments there  were  not done  having  never had the  2  dual 12 he-frames in the room,  I'd been using them for   well over a year but  we had a customer  who  wanted them so  the stand alone  Otica's were left.
I  lleft the Otica's on their own until they  were sold.  In 95% of music in   my room,  they were fantastic on their own.   In the  room being discussed here, with the one open  side I don't think  they'll  reach down quite as low as they did in my room but I wouldn't  guess as to where they'd play to.

I like the idea mentioned above,  try the Otica's on their won and see what  you think.  If you  are happy, great... if  not,  add the subs  .

jay

[Zitoun]

If you listen to this kind of music or bad recording you do not need to spend a lot of money in the audio system, and much less with this room. Very low DR -> you need few watts.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year?artist=Rusko
Yesterday, Tech Talk 32
YouTube GOOD Gear in BAD Rooms! with GR-Research

Hello Maty,

I am sure you have a ton of experience in audio, and sorry if I do not completely understand what you are saying but I am trying, and the more I learn the better.

Forgive me if my questions seems too basic but I'd like to better understand your point on what you are saying:

-

If you listen to this kind of music ...

As stated in other threads, I listen to a wide range of music from classical to electro, pop, ''world'' etc... . I provided this example in the context of my question on the bass response of the OB Subs. I could provide other examples but this track has a particularly agressive bass line very difficult to reproduce by subs with a long decay period. if the speaker is fast enough that will be interesting to get an opinion on what it can do other subs can't. If the example is not relevant, then it will be awesome to provide another one I guess.

... or bad recording you do not need to spend a lot of money in the audio system, and much less with this room.

Again I am not a sound engineer, but I am not sure ot understand the impact of a recording on a digitally produced file. Thre is no recording per say in this situation, or am I missing something ?. Fom my knowledge if you are talking about mp3 it is affecting more the top end, and resolution in the bass, but you should still be able to hear below 40Hz or again am I missing somehting else again ? .

you do not need to spend a lot of money in the audio system, and much less with this room.

Well that's the point of asking to experienced people in a forum, that has never been my goal, I am more open to suggestions to enhanced my system at the lowest cost possible.

. Very low DR -> you need few watts.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year?artist=Rusko

I am not sure about what you are trying to say here, this artist is playing with heavy bass all the time, that's not a surprise to not find dynamics in his repertoire. I am trying hard but I don't get your point on measuring DR for a question about subs... . and few watt for what ? which system ? I am running currently 100w per channel ... and I am not necesseraly looking at having more dynamics ? So again, I am certainly missing somehting in your logic that can explain all this.

Yesterday, Tech Talk 32
YouTube GOOD Gear in BAD Rooms! with GR-Research

I don't think this video answers my questions ... that was an educative video but I felt bad at the end to see how people are mocking other because they don't have the right room on their pics. not everyody is an expert, and we all start our audio journey somewhere regardless of our budget and social status.

Again I just feel this answer is off topic or I am too much of a newbie to understand, either way I'll be happy to learn.
Cheers,

[Zitoun]

As it's been pointed out, it really  depends onthe room whether or not you need the subs... see  my original post   (post 1 ) of this thread. 
My comments there  were  not done  having  never had the  2  dual 12 he-frames in the room,  I'd been using them for   well over a year but  we had a customer  who  wanted them so  the stand alone  Otica's were left.
I  lleft the Otica's on their own until they  were sold.  In 95% of music in   my room,  they were fantastic on their own.   In the  room being discussed here, with the one open  side I don't think  they'll  reach down quite as low as they did in my room but I wouldn't  guess as to where they'd play to.

I like the idea mentioned above,  try the Otica's on their won and see what  you think.  If you  are happy, great... if  not,  add the subs  .

jay

Thnaks for the details Jay I appreciate, good suggestion.

[Jaytor]

@Zitoun - the track you posted doesn't seem to have much really low bass. This is mostly mid-bass which would probably be fine without the subs.

Here's a track (Terje Isungset - Fading Sun) that has really low bass that you will barely hear without the subs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dONSkfbxnao

And here's an example of a track (Jennifer Warnes - Way Down Deep), that will sound ok without the subs, but the subs really add to the power of the performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_alN-IzNFM

You'll find a lot of jazz with double bass, and electronic music that will really leverage the subs, but a lot of music that sounds like it has a lot of bass really doesn't go that low.

Regarding the Tech Talk video that maty mentioned - I think he was trying to convey that room acoustics are at least as important as the quality of the gear, so doing some treatment in your room can often make a bigger difference in how much you enjoy your system than anything else. With OB speakers, a lot of the sound you will be hearing is reflected off the front wall, so you need to pay some attention to this.

- Jay