[CanadianMaestro]

So again to CanadianMaestro, not that it makes any difference, I am an owner and have been for going on 15 years.

It makes a difference.
And a damn smart one too. 

cheers

[gbaby]

I think owners' opinions not only count, they should get top priority. Direct experience thru ownership and listening (to the gear, not to the marketing), there really is no substitute for them. Armchair criticism doesn't fly, especially when it's repetitious.
cheers

I agree.

[witchdoctor]

Uhhhh, I think I started this thread, doesn't that mean I get to post in it?
As for being a Bryston authority, no I'm not, just a fan. However the SP4 is about IMMERSIVE audio and I have what is probably one of the most outstanding IMMERSIVE systems on AC. Not because it is the most expensive but because the majority of members here are two channel oriented or maybe 5 or 7 channels in the Home Theater Circle. If the witchdoctor upgrades it can only go one way from my 13.1 setup, and that is a 16 channel system.
I think I am the type of member this forum and this thread in particular serves. Someone who is researching future investments in a 16 channel (or more) processor.

[Alphonse]

Gbaby, I am not locked into SP3 or SP4 features at this point. Would love to find a good demo, listen to the the new features and trust my ears.

Al.

[Rod_S]

gbaby is correct, there is still the SP3 and for anyone not looking for the latest surround tech that's an obvious choice for people. However the whole purpose of the SP 4 is to offer a product that does have the  latest tech and as part of that new world is an ever evolving hardware and firmware stream to keep up which Storm is offering. So SP4 owners and potential SP4 owners, at least those who know what the SP4 is, a re-branded Storm SSP would/should be expecting any Storm updates to the Bryston platform. Perhaps upgradeability is not a big deal to those not aware of what the SP4 is and they are purchasing with the state of mind this is all I will ever get in terms of feature set and are fine with that, much like a receiver, knowing if they want more capability in the future they'll have to purchase another unit from a different manufacturer.

I know James had mentioned they were thinking about bringing a more audiophile module to the unit and I think that's great, it's a very good move especially if the SP3 is eventually retired and users no longer have an audiophile 5.1/7.1 option however in my opinion those types of developments shouldn't come at the cost of Storm's own development and offerings like new HDMI boards and new main motherboards, etc.

[gbaby]

Gbaby, I am not locked into SP3 or SP4 features at this point. Would love to find a good demo, listen to the the new features and trust my ears.

Al.

Al, listen to an SP3 and you will be locked into it. That's what happened to me. For me ATMOS is like MQA. Its a product no one asked for. I don't like ATMOS because it is gimmicky in my opinion. Also, I detest music coming from the ceiling. If you have the correct surround speakers and they are correctly located, you will think it is ATMOS with the SP3 as the SP3 is immersive in itself. I also like the synergy between the SP3, the BDA3 and the BDP3 which may have killed the turntable. I don't know, but it sure did cure my desire to have one. 

[witchdoctor]

When it comes to immersive music you have a LOT of choices. A Tidal subscription and a pair of headphones brings you Sony 360 for immersive headphone listening, no speakers required. You have dedicated two channel fans, surround fans and as long as YOU are happy more channels does not necessarily make you happier.
I don't really like music coming from the ceiling either when all you had was the dolby upmixer for upmixing 2 channel tracks. However Auro 3D is set up differently than Atmos and sounds fantastic upmixing two channel to 9 or 10 channel.
I have started getting some music natively mixed in Atmos and it is a whole differnt ballgame. The last AES meeting was all about immersive audio and this will only continue to get better. Check out this link:

http://www.aes.org/conferences/2019/immersive/

[Rod_S]

I'm not sure if I would be a fan of music from the ceiling either, for me it's more of a movie and gaming feature.

But the Storm unit does have what they call SphereAudio described as "binaural Immersive Sound engine for headphones provides further flexibility over your 3D audio playback" According to the Bryston website it's an option in the SP4 so it wasn't stripped out.

Certainly not a discrete experience by any means but apparently a way of simulating 3D playback via headphones. Might be nothing more than a gimmick in reality though.

I communicated with Storm to see what their plans were for the future via HDMI 2.1 and additional 2.1 features and they are definitely on board, so when the chipsets become available things like ALLM, VRR, etc. will be offered via more updates so this is all very promising for the Storm units. Obviously no guarantee any of these will see the light of day in the SP4.

[gbaby]

I communicated with Storm to see what their plans were for the future via HDMI 2.1 and additional 2.1 features and they are definitely on board, so when the chipsets become available things like ALLM, VRR, etc. will be offered via more updates so this is all very promising for the Storm units. Obviously no guarantee any of these will see the light of day in the SP4.

I would not concern myself with whether or not Storm will offer chipsets making available things like ALLM, VRR, or whatever those are. I remember folks were critical of Bryston because the SP3 didn't do DSD, but the Krell Foundation could play DSD. Now, the SP3 can play DSD, but now everyone is finding out that redbook 44.1 PCM is just fine and sounds more natural. We need to help and ensure Bryston keeps making state of the art hi fidelity equipment that is the best sounding for the money you spend for it. We also need to cherish the fact that we can communicate with top gun in the company. I've owned Sony ES, and Krell and I have never spoken to or communicated with anyone from those companies. Additionally, I think Bryston owners need to show a little discernment and not fall for the latest and greatest and let the pros determine if the latest and greatest are even needed. Do you remember Dolby Pro Logic IIz?

[Rod_S]

ALLM - Auto Low Latency Mode
VRR - Variable Refresh Rate

Neither have anything to do with audio, they are video related, particularly game related. They, as well as eARC which is audio related are all part of the HDMI 2.1 specification however all 3 do not require HDMI 2.1 to be implemented, they can all be implemented within the HDMI 2.0b spec.

None would have any real place within the SP3 however the SP4 is another matter as a cutting edge processor but this thread isn't about the SP3 rather it's about the SP4.

A true HDMI 2.1 feature is 4k@120Hz as the 48GB data capacity is required which would more likely be a game feature only for the foreseeable future before being used for say movies, if ever. With the Xbox Series X and PS5 coming out this year these features can all be put to use. ALLM and VRR are already welcome introductions for gaming in 2019 and 2020 tv's along with G-sync and Free-sync (to date more for PC gaming) are are now becoming relevant for consoles as well growing the market

The issue to date is that receivers and SSP's have not yet adopted the features thus gamers, I'll use consoles here as an example have no choice but to send the video signal straight to the tv (to utilize ALLM and VRR) and use the console's legacy optical output to route the audio to the receiver or SSP. I haven't heard of anyone using eARC to route the audio from the tv back to the SSP for gaming but in theory it's possible to do it that way and again in theory you could maintain audio from games with LPCM, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos or dts:X soundtracks. Obviously using the legacy optical out denies the gamer the high res audio as only Dolby Digital and dts would pass through an optical cable.

As to Bryston continuing making state of the art hi fidelity equipment, don't forget, Bryston does not make the SP4 thus it's a very unique offering within the product lineup and obviously much more complicated than Bryston re-branding Torus power conditioners as BIT's.

[gbaby]

ALLM - Auto Low Latency Mode
VRR - Variable Refresh Rate

Neither have anything to do with audio, they are video related, particularly game related. They, as well as eARC which is audio related are all part of the HDMI 2.1 specification however all 3 do not require HDMI 2.1 to be implemented, they can all be implemented within the HDMI 2.0b spec.

None would have any real place within the SP3 however the SP4 is another matter as a cutting edge processor but this thread isn't about the SP3 rather it's about the SP4.

A true HDMI 2.1 feature is 4k@120Hz as the 48GB data capacity is required which would more likely be a game feature only for the foreseeable future before being used for say movies, if ever. With the Xbox Series X and PS5 coming out this year these features can all be put to use. ALLM and VRR are already welcome introductions for gaming in 2019 and 2020 tv's along with G-sync and Free-sync (to date more for PC gaming) are are now becoming relevant for consoles as well growing the market

The issue to date is that receivers and SSP's have not yet adopted the features thus gamers, I'll use consoles here as an example have no choice but to send the video signal straight to the tv (to utilize ALLM and VRR) and use the console's legacy optical output to route the audio to the receiver or SSP. I haven't heard of anyone using eARC to route the audio from the tv back to the SSP for gaming but in theory it's possible to do it that way and again in theory you could maintain audio from games with LPCM, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos or dts:X soundtracks. Obviously using the legacy optical out denies the gamer the high res audio as only Dolby Digital and dts would pass through an optical cable.

As to Bryston continuing making state of the art hi fidelity equipment, don't forget, Bryston does not make the SP4 thus it's a very unique offering within the product lineup and obviously much more complicated than Bryston re-branding Torus power conditioners as BIT's.

Good post. It more or less supports my point about expecting Bryston to have every new feature. Even with the SP4, I seriously doubt a person would buy it with gaming in mind. I'd be surprise to find folks who own SP3s and 4s are into gaming. In any event, I'm content with Bryston concentrating in sound. Gaming has zero interest to me. I'd rather read and learn something. Or maybe even grab a tennis racket. But gaming...

[gbaby]

[

[Rod_S]

Good post. It more or less supports my point about expecting Bryston to have every new feature. Even with the SP4, I seriously doubt a person would buy it with gaming in mind. I'd be surprise to find folks who own SP3s and 4s are into gaming. In any event, I'm content with Bryston concentrating in sound. Gaming has zero interest to me. I'd rather read and learn something. Or maybe even grab a tennis racket. But gaming...

hey now, I'm into gaming and a huge segment of the home theater (i.e. tv and SSP) market segment are gaming enthusiasts of around my age on average (say late 20's to late 40's) and we are the ones with the money to be able to afford this type of gear.

[witchdoctor]

+1, the X-Box 1 is a very robust machine. Yes, I can game. I can also play 4K blue rays, CD's, stream from a multiple of services such Amazon, Fandango,VUDU, Spotify, etc. A fantastic feature is the X-Box will pass a Dolby Vision or HDR signal that my TCL 4K TV can display. The WOW factor of the X-Box is Atmos. In the settings you can choose to pass an Atmos signal via bitstream, fine. What I found out is it will take a 5.1 signal and transcode it into an Atmos signal and the receiver reads the signal as Atmos, not dolby digital. Another benefit is it has a browser, access to onedrive where I store my music files and can stream them without needing a PC or USB drive.
So even if you don't game a lot the X-Box is a $200 marvel IMO and new apps are being added all the time.
So IMO a $10K + processor should be able to handle one of the two most popular gaming platforms.

[gbaby]

hey now, I'm into gaming and a huge segment of the home theater (i.e. tv and SSP) market segment are gaming enthusiasts of around my age on average (say late 20's to late 40's) and we are the ones with the money to be able to afford this type of gear.

Oh my!

[witchdoctor]

Oh my!

You know you want one, just do it! The entire system is cheaper than one of my cables:

https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-All-Digital-Console-Disc-free-Gaming/dp/B07XQXZXJC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=xbox&qid=1579190655&sr=8-1

Home Theater Review:
Conclusion
"To fully answer the question "Does the Xbox One X succeed as an all-in-one media player?" I lived with it as my sole media device for over a month. Since I'm a cord-cutter, I didn't need to feed a cable/satellite signal into the box's HDMI input, so I truly had a one-box solution. And after spending all that time with the One X, I can say, yes it does succeed. If you look at each category--UHD Blu-ray player, streaming media player, and audio streamer/player--there are better performers you can find within each. Products that offer better AV performance or easier setup or a more stylish interface. Still, the Xbox One X does a very good job of combining all that functionality into one box and still performing each task well"

[gbaby]

You know you want one, just do it! The entire system is cheaper than one of my cables:

https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-All-Digital-Console-Disc-free-Gaming/dp/B07XQXZXJC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=xbox&qid=1579190655&sr=8-1

Home Theater Review:
Conclusion
"To fully answer the question "Does the Xbox One X succeed as an all-in-one media player?" I lived with it as my sole media device for over a month. Since I'm a cord-cutter, I didn't need to feed a cable/satellite signal into the box's HDMI input, so I truly had a one-box solution. And after spending all that time with the One X, I can say, yes it does succeed. If you look at each category--UHD Blu-ray player, streaming media player, and audio streamer/player--there are better performers you can find within each. Products that offer better AV performance or easier setup or a more stylish interface. Still, the Xbox One X does a very good job of combining all that functionality into one box and still performing each task well"

Witchdoctor, your interest is like that of a child to me. I wish you would stop posting on Bryston's site as you insult the company's goal as well as those who understand the company's goal. No one in their right mind would buy a 14k processor with a concern for gaming. It is the sound quality that is important, and game sound effects do not need the quality of electronics of an SP4. It was configured for movie watching. Post this crap on the Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Kenwood or other site that sell receivers with the latest and greatest. Receivers are known to have all the latest codecs and features. Their interest is not the ultimate sound quality, but rather, features. Now that you know Bryston will not add those features you mention, please stop posting and quit criticizing Bryston for not having these features. You are not a customer, and don't plan to be a customer so why be an irritant?

[witchdoctor]

Gbaby, children don't buy $$$$ 13.1 channel (or more) immersive SOA home theaters. I have not one but two, one in my media room and one in the man cave. I am EXACTLY the right customer for an SP4. I am simply waiting for the new HDMI standards that will come out at the end of this year before pulling the trigger. The SP4 is a SOA processor for both audio and VIDEO. You keep forgetting that video is just as much of the equation as audio and gaming consoles are often the centerpiece of an immersive home theater:

A video game console generation ago this was barely a consideration for most people, and a generation before that it wasn’t even a consideration. Today, though, game consoles are so much more than just a box you flip on when you want to game. Current generation consoles are capable of HD (and even 4K) video playback, Blu-ray and DVD playback, and they’re more than equipped to access streaming services"

https://www.reviewgeek.com/4415/which-game-console-is-the-best-home-entertainment-system/

[witchdoctor]

So Gbaby, you have already stated you don't like Atmos, why not take your issues to the SP3 thread and stop annoying everyone who might actually buy an SP4 in the future? 

[gbaby]

So Gbaby, you have already stated you don't like Atmos, why not take your issues to the SP3 thread and stop annoying everyone who might actually buy an SP4 in the future? 

I am not posting to criticize Atmos, but to criticize your criticism of Bryston for not having ALLM or VRR on its SP4. This is annoying. In fact, take a look at the SP4 and on its cover is states "Home Theater Processor." The unit is not configured with video games in mind, but rather, home theater.