AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: witchdoctor on 2 Feb 2018, 03:40 pm

Title: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Feb 2018, 03:40 pm
James congratulations on partnering with Storm Audio for the new SP4 and let me welcome you to the amazing world of immersive audio. For those of you not familiar with Storm Audio they were formerly owned by Auro 3D and I have been an Auro fan for many years. If anyone plans on getting the SP4 I strongly recommend an Auro 3D speaker layout vs Atmos. Check out the announcement:

https://www.proaudio.de/en/news/live/19731-bryston-and-stormaudio-announce-collaboration.html


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175554)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Feb 2018, 03:42 pm
BTW James, I know you are undecided on MQA but you may have some customers who prefer it, if you can add it to the SP4 it would be wonderful :D
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Feb 2018, 03:47 pm
BTW James, I know you are undecided on MQA but you may have some customers who prefer it, if you can add it to the SP4 it would be wonderful :D

H WD

Nope I am holding firm on that one - no MQA.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Feb 2018, 03:52 pm
No worries, it is available on so  many dacs now anyways. I imagine you have done a lot of testing with Storm products before choosing them as a partner. What is your opinion of immersive audio?
Have you compared an Auro speaker layout vs Atmos yet? Compared the upmixers?
Any pics from your lab of an immersive setup?
I think you made a wise decision to partner with Storm, so many awards.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Feb 2018, 04:04 pm
BTW, for Bryton fans going immersive, take a look at the Bryston TOW speakers. 5 of them as bed channels and 4 of them as height channels positioned directly above the L-R and surrounds would be ideal. You can use speaker brackets on your height channels to angle them down while mounted to the wall.

http://www.bryston.com/PDF/Manuals/Model_TOW_MANUAL.pdf

http://www.bryston.com/products/speakers/Model_TOW_On-Wall.html
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Feb 2018, 04:11 pm
No worries, it is available on so  many dacs now anyways. I imagine you have done a lot of testing with Storm products before choosing them as a partner. What is your opinion of immersive audio?
Have you compared an Auro speaker layout vs Atmos yet? Compared the upmixers?
Any pics from your lab of an immersive setup?
I think you made a wise decision to partner with Storm, so many awards.

Hi

Yes I find the philosophy of Auro quite different from Dolby and requires a completely different speaker arrangement so here we go again - confusing the market !!! :duh:

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Feb 2018, 04:19 pm
Hi Folks,

If you email me I can send you a preliminary PDF of the new SP4

james

jamestanner@bryston.com
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Feb 2018, 04:22 pm
Well James if we were talking about the market for a $500 receiver maybe there would be confusion. If you think audio is confusing don't even think about video (4K/UHD/HDR10/Dolby Vision/8K and IDK what else).
However the market for the SP4 will likely be astute, sophisticated DIYers or well heeled hobbyists with custom installers, I doubt that choosing a speaker layout will be very challenging.

FWIW an Auro layout sounds just fine with Atmos content or the Atmos upmixer. I think the speaker installation is simpler, you can choose an exact matching speaker to your bed channels, and no cutting holes in your ceiling required for ceiling speaker installation ala Atmos.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Feb 2018, 05:15 pm
Well James if we were talking about the market for a $500 receiver maybe there would be confusion. If you think audio is confusing don't even think about video (4K/UHD/HDR10/Dolby Vision/8K and IDK what else).
However the market for the SP4 will likely be astute, sophisticated DIYers or well heeled hobbyists with custom installers, I doubt that choosing a speaker layout will be very challenging.

FWIW an Auro layout sounds just fine with Atmos content or the Atmos upmixer. I think the speaker installation is simpler, you can choose an exact matching speaker to your bed channels, and no cutting holes in your ceiling required for ceiling speaker installation ala Atmos.

Time will tell but I think going up against the 1200 pound gorilla (Dolby) is a serious chore.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdbalp on 3 Feb 2018, 01:03 am
Hi James,

Very interesting to hear about the new SP44.  :icon_surprised: :icon_surprised: :icon_surprised:

The SP3 will continue in the product lineup for the time being, while the SP4 establishes itself.
Will the SP3 be discontinued in the coming year - 2019?

And will there be any trade-up possibilities for SP3 owners :thumb:?

Luigi



 
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdbalp on 3 Feb 2018, 01:20 am
Just another question;

Will the SP4 incorporate the patented Salomie circuit 8) 8) 8) 8)?

Luigi
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 3 Feb 2018, 01:59 am
Hi James,

Very interesting to hear about the new SP44.  :icon_surprised: :icon_surprised: :icon_surprised:

The SP3 will continue in the product lineup for the time being, while the SP4 establishes itself.
Will the SP3 be discontinued in the coming year - 2019?

And will there be any trade-up possibilities for SP3 owners :thumb:?

Luigi

Hi Luigi

No the SP3 will not be discontinued. If people do not need the feature set of the SP4 then they can save a lot by purchasing the SP3.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 3 Feb 2018, 02:00 am
Just another question;

Will the SP4 incorporate the patented Salomie circuit 8) 8) 8) 8)?

Luigi

Hi

No it will not have the Salomie circuits.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: mv038856 on 8 Feb 2018, 07:25 pm
Hi

No it will not have the Salomie circuits.

james

Just for clarification...

Am I right in thinking that the Salomie circuitry is a technology for analog audio inputs? In that case they would not be that important on a pre/pro that is a dedicated home theater device, as there almost all sources are digital...

Or do you have Salomie output stages as well?

What would interest me is, will the SP-4 incorporate the same kind of analog output stages as the SP-3, that is discrete and class A, all Bryston, Canada made? Will it have an analog Volume Control like the SP-3 or will the volume be handled in the digital domain?

Thanks!

Markus
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Feb 2018, 07:30 pm
Just for clarification...

Am I right in thinking that the Salomie circuitry is a technology for analog audio inputs? In that case they would not be that important on a pre/pro that is a dedicated home theater device, as there almost all sources are digital...

Or do you have Salomie output stages as well?

What would interest me is, will the SP-4 incorporate the same kind of analog output stages as the SP-3, that is discrete and class A, all Bryston, Canada made? Will it have an analog Volume Control like the SP-3 or will the volume be handled in the digital domain?

Thanks!

Markus

Hi Markus

Correct the Salomie circuits are at the analog input stage. The SP4 is fully modular so we intend to develop special circuits going forward.

james




Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: alexone on 8 Feb 2018, 08:05 pm
WOW! a new SP4...:thumb:

times are changing and it is interesting to see how Bryston answers the market.

al.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: mv038856 on 10 Feb 2018, 06:31 pm
Hi Markus

Correct the Salomie circuits are at the analog input stage. The SP4 is fully modular so we intend to develop special circuits going forward.

james

Hi James,

You keep using the term „going forward“... does this mean that the analog section of the initial SP4 will be identical to the analog stage from StormAudio, i.e. it will not be the same kind of descrete class a output stages as used in the SP3?

Thanks

Markus
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 10 Feb 2018, 07:20 pm
Hi James,

You keep using the term „going forward“... does this mean that the analog section of the initial SP4 will be identical to the analog stage from StormAudio, i.e. it will not be the same kind of descrete class a output stages as used in the SP3?

Thanks

Markus

Correct.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: R. Daneel on 21 Feb 2018, 08:12 am
H WD

Nope I am holding firm on that one - no MQA.

james

James, that is most commendable. You, Sir, are a gentleman with integrity.

Best wishes,
Antun
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 6 Mar 2018, 10:21 pm
The leap from PCM to MQA is substantial.

The leap from "surround sound" to "immersive sound" is staggering.

I think the SP4 is going to stun the current SP3 users, even without MQA.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 7 Mar 2018, 01:57 pm
The leap from PCM to MQA is substantial.

The leap from "surround sound" to "immersive sound" is staggering.

I think the SP4 is going to stun the current SP3 users, even without MQA.

Witchdoctor, you write as if many of of have never heard ATMOS. I for one have heard it and I was unimpressed. The fact the Bryston partnered with another company to get the latest surround codecs is not a big deal.  :roll: As for MQA, please. :roll:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 7 Mar 2018, 01:58 pm
Error.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 7 Mar 2018, 04:04 pm
Witchdoctor, you write as if many of of have never heard ATMOS. I for one have heard it and I was unimpressed. The fact the Bryston partnered with another company to get the latest surround codecs is not a big deal.  :roll: As for MQA, please. :roll:
Did you hear it with a $299 receiver? Were you using cheesy upfiring speakers?

If you use an SP4 with the Bryston TOW speakers (or another brand if it suits you, but this is a Bryston thread) in an Auro 3D setup using the Auromatic upmixer on 2 channel mixes you will be blown away. With an SP4 you get a remote control. Push a button for 2 channel, another button for surround, and another button for Atmos, DTS-X or Auro 3D. This is how the future of audio is now. If you want to sit back with 2 channel your tube amp you get no argument from me.

If you already have a surround system you just need to add either 2,4 or 5 height channels.


Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 7 Mar 2018, 07:21 pm
Did you hear it with a $299 receiver? Were you using cheesy upfiring speakers?

If you use an SP4 with the Bryston TOW speakers (or another brand if it suits you, but this is a Bryston thread) in an Auro 3D setup using the Auromatic upmixer on 2 channel mixes you will be blown away. With an SP4 you get a remote control. Push a button for 2 channel, another button for surround, and another button for Atmos, DTS-X or Auro 3D. This is how the future of audio is now. If you want to sit back with 2 channel your tube amp you get no argument from me.

If you already have a surround system you just need to add either 2,4 or 5 height channels.

I guess you are trying to be funny, however, I am not amused.  :roll:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 7 Mar 2018, 10:30 pm
I guess you are trying to be funny, however, I am not amused.  :roll:

When you get your SP4 you still won't be "amused", you will be thrilled. Just make sure to use an Auro 3D speaker layout, Atmos isn't so hot with music as it was designed for movies. The auromatic upmixer works on all content.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 8 Mar 2018, 12:49 am
When you get your SP4 you still won't be "amused", you will be thrilled. Just make sure to use an Auro 3D speaker layout, Atmos isn't so hot with music as it was designed for movies. The auromatic upmixer works on all content.

I have zero interest in an SP4 or any of the object based codec. My interest in the SP3 was more for music with movies being incidental. I am mature enough to be satisfied with 7.1. I have no interest in ceiling speakers. I am not a movie nut.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdbalp on 10 Mar 2018, 10:28 pm
James,

With this new SP4, the overall depth of this unit is 19.25 inches.

This depth dimension is larger than most of the current Bryston amplifiers, except the 28B.

I am not sure about standards with A/V rack dimensions, but this will be a problem for my A/V rack - built-in cabinet, not to mention the wiring connections at the back that need additional space.

And the question is if there could be a reduction in this overall depth dimension by say 2-4" inches that would be similar to the current SP3.

Luigi
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 10 Mar 2018, 11:04 pm
James,

With this new SP4, the overall depth of this unit is 19.25 inches.

This depth dimension is larger than most of the current Bryston amplifiers, except the 28B.

I am not sure about standards with A/V rack dimensions, but this will be a problem for my A/V rack - built-in cabinet, not to mention the wiring connections at the back that need additional space.

And the question is if there could be a reduction in this overall depth dimension by say 2-4" inches that would be similar to the current SP3.

Luigi

Hi Luigi

No I am sorry it can not be smaller as we need the depth because we are using a 3U chassis size whereas the StormAudio unit is a 4U.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdbalp on 11 Mar 2018, 06:25 pm
Hi James,

Thanks for the response.

And I would not have an issue with the 4U vs. 3U height if the depth would be reduced... :green: :green: :green:

Luigi
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 11 Mar 2018, 06:44 pm
Hi James,

Thanks for the response.

And I would not have an issue with the 4U vs. 3U height if the depth would be reduced... :green: :green: :green:

Luigi

Hi

We looked but there is only so much internal real-estate available so other than leaving room for specialized Bryston modules I am at the end of the racetrack.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 12 Mar 2018, 04:29 pm
So if you are changing the dimensions doesn't that leave you exposed to not actually being able to bring to the platform all future hardware updates Storm may bring out because either 1) it won't physically fit into your altered layout or 2) could be a done but at a redesign cost for each new hardware addition making the Bryston a more pricey option with no performance gain?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 12 Mar 2018, 04:48 pm
So if you are changing the dimensions doesn't that leave you exposed to not actually being able to bring to the platform all future hardware updates Storm may bring out because either 1) it won't physically fit into your altered layout or 2) could be a done but at a redesign cost for each new hardware addition making the Bryston a more pricey option with no performance gain?

Hi

If we stick to 16 channels or 20 Channels then we are fine - if we want to expand to 32 channels or 40 then we would have to go up a rack space.  But given our customer I do not see that as something we would do.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 8 Apr 2018, 01:35 am
So for those of us with a high res digital file library (96/24 or higher) is the only way to get that into this going to be HDMI? I see there is RCA and optical S/PDIF connections but aren't they resolution limited? If that's the case this seems like one major oversight on a modern unit to not offer USB and/or AES digital inputs for music. I see the unit certainly has USB inputs but it seems that's just for the mic and software updates.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Apr 2018, 10:06 am
So for those of us with a high res digital file library (96/24 or higher) is the only way to get that into this going to be HDMI? I see there is RCA and optical S/PDIF connections but aren't they resolution limited? If that's the case this seems like one major oversight on a modern unit to not offer USB and/or AES digital inputs for music. I see the unit certainly has USB inputs but it seems that's just for the mic and software updates.

HI

We plan on adding our own DAC stage (its a modular design) AES and USB etc. going forward.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 8 Apr 2018, 12:40 pm
Ah very nice! Will the USB support multi-channel or just stereo? I believe AES is typically just stereo isn't it?

The Storm SSP is unfortunately not alone in the omission of AES and USB inputs for audio, even the newly released Trinnov Altitude16 omits the AES inputs that are found on the big brother Altitude32 platform but even the 32 to my knowledge doesn't utilize the USB inputs for audio.The Datasat LS10 does appear to be the exception, it has a USB input, it's big brother the RS20i does't have either USB audio or AES inputs.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Apr 2018, 01:25 pm
Ah very nice! Will the USB support multi-channel or just stereo? I believe AES is typically just stereo isn't it?

The Storm SSP is unfortunately not alone in the omission of AES and USB inputs for audio, even the newly released Trinnov Altitude16 omits the AES inputs that are found on the big brother Altitude32 platform but even the 32 to my knowledge doesn't utilize the USB inputs for audio.The Datasat LS10 does appear to be the exception, it has a USB input, it's big brother the RS20i does't have either USB audio or AES inputs.

Hi

Just Stereo at first.  I think companies like StormAudio and DataSat and Trinnov are geared more towards the home theater market and a feature oriented approach so their products tend to reflect what the custom install surround market really wants as opposed to the stereo audiophile.

The opportunity I saw with StormAudio is that it would allow us to develop our own Bryston circuits going forward and make them available to the customer than wants to push the state of the art sonic envelope.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 8 Apr 2018, 01:28 pm
Thanks James  that makes sense.

So what's the roll out time line like, I assume it'll be this year for the initial release of the SP4 with just the Storm Audio feature set but when should we expect to see the Bryston additions make it into the platform like this module you are talking about, perhaps not until next year?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Apr 2018, 01:39 pm
Thanks James  that makes sense.

So what's the roll out time line like, I assume it'll be this year for the initial release of the SP4 with just the Storm Audio feature set but when should we expect to see the Bryston additions make it into the platform like this module you are talking about, perhaps not until next year?

Hi

I would say at least a year but I am going to offer the updates free to anyone that purchased an SP4 in the next year.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 10 Apr 2018, 02:37 am
Ah very nice! Will the USB support multi-channel or just stereo? I believe AES is typically just stereo isn't it?

The Storm SSP is unfortunately not alone in the omission of AES and USB inputs for audio, even the newly released Trinnov Altitude16 omits the AES inputs that are found on the big brother Altitude32 platform but even the 32 to my knowledge doesn't utilize the USB inputs for audio.The Datasat LS10 does appear to be the exception, it has a USB input, it's big brother the RS20i does't have either USB audio or AES inputs.

The SP3 is the last surround processor that is fully balanced with an analog stage rivaling stand alone 2 channel pre-amps catering to music. When you start dealing with object based technology you want to be dazzled by sound in movies. However, I have yet to experience object base in real life.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 18 Apr 2018, 12:03 pm
So how will one control this thing? I don't see any pics or mention of a normal remote. Is this one of those SSP's like I recently found out about the Trinnov that can't be properly or completely controlled with a conventional handheld remote or a learning remote such as a Harmony and that one needs something like a Control4, Crestron, etc. or iOS/Android device? If so that's going to really suck.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 18 Apr 2018, 12:27 pm
So how will one control this thing? I don't see any pics or mention of a normal remote. Is this one of those SSP's like I recently found out about the Trinnov that can't be properly or completely controlled with a conventional handheld remote or a learning remote such as a Harmony and that one needs something like a Control4, Crestron, etc. or iOS/Android device? If so that's going to really suck.

Hi Rod

The SP4 will also be compatible with popular control system platforms, including Savant, RTI, Control4 and Crestron etc.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 18 Apr 2018, 12:33 pm
So no typical IR hard button control solution thus it won't come with it's own handheld remote and would not likely be compatible with learning remotes such as a Harmony?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 18 Apr 2018, 05:40 pm
So no typical IR hard button control solution thus it won't come with it's own handheld remote and would not likely be compatible with learning remotes such as a Harmony?
\

Hi

I would think that is something we could offer as well.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 4 Jun 2018, 03:49 pm
Hi Folks,

The Bryston SP-4 Processor start to become available this month - here is a link to the new brochure.

http://bash.codes/client/bryston/testing/products/digital_audio/SP4.html

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 7 Jun 2018, 04:10 pm
Hi Folks,

Here is an draft of the new Bryston SP-4 product page on our website:

http://bash.codes/client/bryston/testing/products/digital_audio/SP4.html
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdbalp on 12 Jun 2018, 12:45 am
Hi James,

A few questions about the SP4:
1) No headphone jack?
2) D/A conversion is only 24 bits, not like 32 bits as the BDA-3? Who is manufacturer of the D/A chip, model?
3) No balanced Analog Inputs, SP3 has two inputs?
4) No AES inputs, SP3 has two inputs?
5) No Unbalanced Analog Inputs-2 channel equipment?
6) Cooling Fan, always on or with a set temperature trigger?  Noisy?
7) USB ports, two units on rear panel, USB 2 or 3?  Any chance to have one on the Front panel?
8) Ethernet port - 100MB only, not 1GB? Direct streaming capabilities?
9) What are the possible expansion boards for this SP4?

And will it be demo presentation at a local Audio dealer in the coming weeks?


Luigi
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 12 Jun 2018, 01:06 am
HI Luigi

The SP4 is more geared to the custom installer and home theater market rather than the audiophile market.

James
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdbalp on 12 Jun 2018, 11:18 pm
James,

Does this mean there will be an upgrade to SP3 or another surround sound processor for the Audiophile market :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:?

Luigi
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 13 Jun 2018, 09:53 am
James,

Does this mean there will be an upgrade to SP3 or another surround sound processor for the Audiophile market :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:?

Luigi

Hi

The plan os to add upgrades to the SP4 going forward as the circuitry is all modular and it has all the latest Codex's and feature sets ( Room EQ/Crestron etc. interface) people want.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jun 2018, 10:53 pm
Hi

The plan os to add upgrades to the SP4 going forward as the circuitry is all modular and it has all the latest Codex's and feature sets ( Room EQ/Crestron etc. interface) people want.

james

I think the SP4 as more of a surround movie processor; the SP3 a surround music processor.  :wink:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 18 Jun 2018, 10:05 am
Indeed! The only one of it's kind!! I'll be sad one day when it outlives practicality.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 18 Jun 2018, 09:58 pm
Indeed! The only one of it's kind!! I'll be sad one day when it outlives practicality.

I think we will be fine for a while. I see it like a BMW which I do not like after owning several. In any event, BMW makes a luxury series for those who like comfort and an M series for those who like a sports tuned suspension and spirited driving. Bryston makes an SP3 for those who like more music and movies and as SP4 for those who like movies over music. They have covered everyone.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 18 Jun 2018, 10:05 pm
By the way - I drive a BMW - M3  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 18 Jun 2018, 10:18 pm
By the way - I drive a BMW - M3  :thumb:

Don't let the warranty expire.  :lol:  8) Fun car. I have owned four; two 3s and 2 5s. Now I suffering from their depreciation. I should have invested.  :duh:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 18 Jun 2018, 10:23 pm
By the way - I drive a BMW - M3  :thumb:

Have they improved the audio in them? None of mine had an audio system commensurate with the cost of the vehicle. I found them unsatisfying. I still own a 3 series convertible, but my 2010 Corolla has a much better sounding stock system. :o
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 18 Jun 2018, 11:20 pm
Have they improved the audio in them? None of mine had an audio system commensurate with the cost of the vehicle. I found them unsatisfying. I still own a 3 series convertible, but my 2010 Corolla has a much better sounding stock system. :o

It’s a 2018 but - Yes I agree but I just listen to Talk Radio too and from Bryston.

James
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 19 Jun 2018, 03:59 pm
It’s a 2018 but - Yes I agree but I just listen to Talk Radio too and from Bryston.

James

Just a thought, but perhaps Bryston should consider licensing its name to an audio system for a luxury auto the way Krell licensed its name to Accura. Just a thought.  :wink:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: tonyedp on 21 Jun 2018, 04:17 pm
Hi James.
Would it be possible to make a (6-8ch) 3-4 AES/EBU output card for the SP4 so i can use my preferred AD:s and amps on the main channels?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 21 Jun 2018, 04:29 pm
Hi James.
Would it be possible to make a (6-8ch) 3-4 AES/EBU output card for the SP4 so i can use my preferred AD:s and amps on the main channels?

Hi

Email Mike and ask - I assume it would be a major design issue.

mpickett@bryston.com

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 21 Jun 2018, 09:17 pm
Hi Folks,

So we have about 20 SP-4's on their way out to the market so should get some feedback soon.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 26 Jun 2018, 04:12 pm
Hi Folks,

The Bryston SP-4 Processor is now on our website.

http://www.bryston.com/products/digital_audio/SP4.html

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 3 Jul 2018, 06:21 pm
HI Folks,

Gary tells us all about the new Bryston SP-4 Processor and why our dealer is over the ‘MOON’ !

James

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAHdXC9Q6E4
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 4 Jul 2018, 01:32 am
Nice video.

Aside from being able to setup via iPad, etc., if it can't be controlled by a standard IR based remote, such as a Harmony universal for example that would be one of my suggestions for being able to control on/off, volume, input selection, etc.

For module expansion one with USB, AES/EBU and stereo XLR inputs for connecting digital music players such as the BDP series would be be great. So AES/EBU and stereo XLR would take care of 2.0 content and equally important if one has multi-channel it could be input via the USB so one isn't entirely reliant on HDMI because unlike the BPD3 not a lot of players have HDMI outputs.

Also another great feature which not all HDMI receivers and SSP's support is the ability to mix and match the audio and video signals from differing HDMI streams. So audio from HDMI 1 (say a BDP3) but video from HDMI 2  (say cable/satellite box) allowing one to listen to music while watching tv.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 4 Jul 2018, 04:41 pm
Hi Folks,

The Bryston SP-4 Processor is now on our website.

http://www.bryston.com/products/digital_audio/SP4.html

james


Congratulations James! How do you like immersive upmixed music compared to stereo? Have you tried Auromatic yet? I think an all TOW speaker system with a couple of subs would be ideal for immersive experience.

http://www.bryston.com/products/speakers/Model_TOW_On-Wall/brochure.html

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 5 Jul 2018, 02:05 am
James,

If I followed the video correctly, one of the 'add-on modules' could be an analog bypass? Is that as an input, or an output?

I guess more specifically what I'm wondering is, can the existing XLR outputs be used for an analog bypass at some point?


Any idea when the manual will be available? I'd love to have a read through it.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 5 Jul 2018, 09:34 am
James,

If I followed the video correctly, one of the 'add-on modules' could be an analog bypass? Is that as an input, or an output?

I guess more specifically what I'm wondering is, can the existing XLR outputs be used for an analog bypass at some point?


Any idea when the manual will be available? I'd love to have a read through it.

Hi

The analog would be an input -  stereo bypass.

I have an installers guide so email me if you want a look.  jamestanner@bryston.com

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 5 Jul 2018, 09:51 am
Congratulations James! How do you like immersive upmixed music compared to stereo? Have you tried Auromatic yet? I think an all TOW speaker system with a couple of subs would be ideal for immersive experience.

http://www.bryston.com/products/speakers/Model_TOW_On-Wall/brochure.html

Hi

I have not had a chance to play around with a unit yet as we sold out the first run immediately.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 5 Jul 2018, 11:03 am
Now that it's officially launched can you post the pricing for all of the currently available options? From the video and the description on the website it seems like Dirac is not part of the base price as it's only mentioned as an option.

Thanks
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 5 Jul 2018, 01:16 pm
Hi James, from what I can gather the unit appears to run at 192kHz internally. Is that the case or is it that it can accept inputs of up to 192kHz but internally it runs at a lower resolution either 96kHz or 48kHz while the DACs may also be 192kHz?. With the Dirac option what resolution does Dirac run at, 48kHz, 96kHz or 192kHz? It would be good to get clarification because to my knowledge I haven't come across a Dirac product running higher than 96kHz but that may just be because the units it's in do not run naively above 96kHz.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 5 Jul 2018, 02:46 pm
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-4 Processor – Customer Feedback

HI Folks,

Starting to get some feedback on the new Bryston SP-4 Processor

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182177)

Hi James,

Hope you had a great 4th of July!

Thought I would share with you my thoughts on the new Bryston SP4 Processor.

My early impression of the Bryston SP4 is that it’s awesome!

I love the design as it looks extremely sleek, very minimalistic in a great way, and looks killer in my rack. The endless ability to basically route your outputs anywhere is extremely impressive and easy to do. I’m getting the hang of the software and it’s quite fun to play with. I wish I was a bit more tech savvy because I want to use it to its full potential.

Like I mentioned above I am beyond happy with the purchase. I love the unit and I know it’s going to be at the head of my system for a long time to come. I am eventually going to hook it up to my control4 system.

This Bryston SP-4 Processor blows my McIntosh out of the water.

In closing I want to say thank you for making such an amazing unit. I am really happy with my purchase and I hope this email was even just a little helpful.


Joshua Baggett
President/Sound Supervisor
Mic'd Up Productions, Inc.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 5 Jul 2018, 03:15 pm
Hi James, from what I can gather the unit appears to run at 192kHz internally. Is that the case or is it that it can accept inputs of up to 192kHz but internally it runs at a lower resolution either 96kHz or 48kHz while the DACs may also be 192kHz?. With the Dirac option what resolution does Dirac run at, 48kHz, 96kHz or 192kHz? It would be good to get clarification because to my knowledge I haven't come across a Dirac product running higher than 96kHz but that may just be because the units it's in do not run naively above 96kHz.

I wanted to quote myself to keep my questions together :)

After reading the brochure I had a couple things for clarification. It does sound like you are allowing for support right out of the gate for optionally up to 32 channels via the 16 channel RCA expansion module and it's not simply just a copy of the built in XLR outputs by offering users who do no have amps with XLR inputs the option of RCA outs instead, correct? So if that's the case, is the actual 16 channel XLR option offered by Storm themselves something you'll have access to going forward if one preferred to have all XLR outs for channels above 16?

So once a unit is configured for more than 16 channels can Dirac EQ the extra channels or is it limited to 16 channels?

I see in the brochure that HDR10 and HLG are supported, what about Dolby Vision and HDR10+?

Finally in the brochure I see no mention of the intermediate option Storm has for their version of adding just 4 more XLR output channels to go from 16 channels to 20 channels, was the thought process that there isn't much point in doing this if you'll be allowing expansion from 16 to 32 channels anyways so going from 16 to 20, with it being just a middle step so to speak not worth offering?

This is looking very, very promising as my next SSP. It's just a matter of knowing the finer details from above so I can accurately compare it to Trinnov's offerings. Right out the gate it's less expensive than the Altitude16 but I need to find out how much the price jumps when the options are applied.

Thanks
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 6 Jul 2018, 10:51 am
Hi Folks,

Here's a link to some more info on the SP-4

http://support.bryston.com/downloads/SP4/

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdayton on 6 Jul 2018, 01:25 pm
Nice video.

Aside from being able to setup via iPad, etc., if it can't be controlled by a standard IR based remote, such as a Harmony universal for example that would be one of my suggestions for being able to control on/off, volume, input selection, etc.

For module expansion one with USB, AES/EBU and stereo XLR inputs for connecting digital music players such as the BDP series would be be great. So AES/EBU and stereo XLR would take care of 2.0 content and equally important if one has multi-channel it could be input via the USB so one isn't entirely reliant on HDMI because unlike the BPD3 not a lot of players have HDMI outputs.

Also another great feature which not all HDMI receivers and SSP's support is the ability to mix and match the audio and video signals from differing HDMI streams. So audio from HDMI 1 (say a BDP3) but video from HDMI 2  (say cable/satellite box) allowing one to listen to music while watching tv.

IR is working in the lab, just not in production firmware yet. We initially assumed most of the SP4 interest would be by custom integrators so we didn't push for a front panel IR receiver. We have IR codes that can be used with the rear panel IR input that should be rolled out in the next firmware update.

You can watch an HDMI source and listen to a non-HDMI source at once. Like the SP3, we only have the ability to lock a single HDMI source at a time, so you can't watch one HDMI and listen to another. This is as much a licensing issue as a hardware limitation and isn't likely to change.

-G
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdayton on 6 Jul 2018, 01:32 pm
I wanted to quote myself to keep my questions together :)

After reading the brochure I had a couple things for clarification. It does sound like you are allowing for support right out of the gate for optionally up to 32 channels via the 16 channel RCA expansion module and it's not simply just a copy of the built in XLR outputs by offering users who do no have amps with XLR inputs the option of RCA outs instead, correct? So if that's the case, is the actual 16 channel XLR option offered by Storm themselves something you'll have access to going forward if one preferred to have all XLR outs for channels above 16?

So once a unit is configured for more than 16 channels can Dirac EQ the extra channels or is it limited to 16 channels?

I see in the brochure that HDR10 and HLG are supported, what about Dolby Vision and HDR10+?

Finally in the brochure I see no mention of the intermediate option Storm has for their version of adding just 4 more XLR output channels to go from 16 channels to 20 channels, was the thought process that there isn't much point in doing this if you'll be allowing expansion from 16 to 32 channels anyways so going from 16 to 20, with it being just a middle step so to speak not worth offering?

This is looking very, very promising as my next SSP. It's just a matter of knowing the finer details from above so I can accurately compare it to Trinnov's offerings. Right out the gate it's less expensive than the Altitude16 but I need to find out how much the price jumps when the options are applied.

Thanks

To be clear (not clear in the brochure) the SP4 can do up to 16 channel discrete decoding. Adding the RCA output card gets you the ability to add a 2nd theater and not expansion to 32 channels in 1 theater. This may change via firmware update one day but no immediate plans.

Dolby Vision is not yet supported. There is some uncertainty about whether the chipset in the HDMI card is compatible. We're trying to figure it out with the company we buy the HDMI card from. Even if it's not, it's not out of the question that the HDMI card could be updated later. Remember the SP3 has received 2 HDMI card upgrades over its lifetime.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 6 Jul 2018, 01:54 pm
Thanks for the responses Gary, much appreciated.

Regarding the internal resolution, after some digging over on the Storm website I came across a spec sheet which lists post processing at only 48kHz? Could you elaborate on that, I don't understand how that aligns with the SSP's ability to accept up to 192kHz and then of course it's DAC's. For example if I feed the SSP4 a 192/24 file from by BDP-2 does that mean the SSP will accept it however it would be downgraded to a 48kHz signal in order to apply Dirac then say Auro Upmixer (or Dolby/dts matrixing) then possibly back to 192 if the DAC's are 192/24.

If so that's alarming as my Lexicon MC-12 from the early 2000's runs at 96kHz even with EQ so I don't get what the limitation in today's technological climate would be to limit a SSP to 48kHz processing. Granted movies predominately are only 48kHz with some concerts being the exception but still. I know the Trinnov Altitude16 operates at 96kHz while the Altitude32 operates at 192kHz.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdayton on 6 Jul 2018, 04:24 pm
Thanks for the responses Gary, much appreciated.

Regarding the internal resolution, after some digging over on the Storm website I came across a spec sheet which lists post processing at only 48kHz? Could you elaborate on that, I don't understand how that aligns with the SSP's ability to accept up to 192kHz and then of course it's DAC's. For example if I feed the SSP4 a 192/24 file from by BDP-2 does that mean the SSP will accept it however it would be downgraded to a 48kHz signal in order to apply Dirac then say Auro Upmixer (or Dolby/dts matrixing) then possibly back to 192 if the DAC's are 192/24.

If so that's alarming as my Lexicon MC-12 from the early 2000's runs at 96kHz even with EQ so I don't get what the limitation in today's technological climate would be to limit a SSP to 48kHz processing. Granted movies predominately are only 48kHz with some concerts being the exception but still. I know the Trinnov Altitude16 operates at 96kHz while the Altitude32 operates at 192kHz.

Yes, we internally run at 48kHz. We offer a lot of EQ options so that helps leave room for processor overhead even if you have activated all possible EQs on all possible channels. There is no real sonic penalty to running at 48kHz vs. 96kHz. As you said, most material is sampled at 48kHz anyway. By not trying to totally max out the DSP, we also contribute to a much more stable device.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 7 Jul 2018, 06:47 am
Hi

The analog would be an input -  stereo bypass.

I have an installers guide so email me if you want a look.  jamestanner@bryston.com

james

I guess what I'm wondering is with an analog input module, can you bypass all the digital processing, so the signal is never converted from analog to digital and back to analog? As configurable as the SP4 seems to be, it's (I presume) all done while the audio signal is digital, before runs through the DACs.

If I had an analog input, I'd want to have an option to bypass converting it to a digital signal, and only control the volume. And perhaps, have the SP4 be able to copy the signal and ALSO run a copy to a different zone or to the subwoofers.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 7 Jul 2018, 07:01 pm
I guess what I'm wondering is with an analog input module, can you bypass all the digital processing, so the signal is never converted from analog to digital and back to analog? As configurable as the SP4 seems to be, it's (I presume) all done while the audio signal is digital, before runs through the DACs.

If I had an analog input, I'd want to have an option to bypass converting it to a digital signal, and only control the volume. And perhaps, have the SP4 be able to copy the signal and ALSO run a copy to a different zone or to the subwoofers.

Running the SP4 in analog bypass would be like hooking a team of horses to a Ferrari. If you get this unit you want to unleash the beast via digital processing. If you want to use a turntable and go analog there are much less expensive alternatives available for a two channel purist setup. This is a SOA fully immersive music and movie beast.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: drummermitchell on 7 Jul 2018, 11:26 pm
As Rod Stewart said-just gimme  some of your old Motown records
Analog has a glorious sound quality all its own
I still use my 2006 Arcam AV-8 analog out to the Oppo -203 and she’s great
When she dies I will do the Bryston Sp-4 or go with the Storm processor
Spinning LPs on the Clearaudio TT is great- besides there is a lot of music you cannot get on cd or stream that you could get on vinyl years ago
They both have their place and I have em both with ma 28s holding the fort with 7s for back up surrounds
Like em both analog and diiiigital when it works LOL
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 8 Jul 2018, 12:41 am
Yes, we internally run at 48kHz. We offer a lot of EQ options so that helps leave room for processor overhead even if you have activated all possible EQs on all possible channels. There is no real sonic penalty to running at 48kHz vs. 96kHz. As you said, most material is sampled at 48kHz anyway. By not trying to totally max out the DSP, we also contribute to a much more stable device.

Thanks for the continued responses.

Certainly no sonic penalty when watching movies as the resolution remains wonderfully consistent from start to finish however where high res music is concerned there would definitely be a penalty so in the case of 96kHz and for sure 192kHz content I would wager a noticeable penalty as there would be for multi-channel DVD-A discs running at 88.2kHz or 96kHz and even for SACD's both stereo and multi-channel.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 8 Jul 2018, 05:23 am
Running the SP4 in analog bypass would be like hooking a team of horses to a Ferrari. If you get this unit you want to unleash the beast via digital processing. If you want to use a turntable and go analog there are much less expensive alternatives available for a two channel purist setup. This is a SOA fully immersive music and movie beast.

I only have one listening area, so it doubles as my home entertainment area for movies/tv as well as 2 channel listening. The reason I went with an SP3 was because it was, first and foremost, an excellent 2ch preamp. I also want an excellent HT processor too. If it can't do both though, it won't meet my criteria.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 8 Jul 2018, 04:19 pm
I only have one listening area, so it doubles as my home entertainment area for movies/tv as well as 2 channel listening. The reason I went with an SP3 was because it was, first and foremost, an excellent 2ch preamp. I also want an excellent HT processor too. If it can't do both though, it won't meet my criteria.

Hmmmm, sounds like a dealer demo is in order. Make sure you get a demo of music upmixed via Auro 3D. Storm used to be owned by Auro. Whether you prefer the SP3 or SP4 for two channel will be interesting. Maybe SP4 owners/dealers can post their opinions?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 8 Jul 2018, 04:25 pm
As Rod Stewart said-just gimme  some of your old Motown records
Analog has a glorious sound quality all its own
I still use my 2006 Arcam AV-8 analog out to the Oppo -203 and she’s great
When she dies I will do the Bryston Sp-4 or go with the Storm processor
Spinning LPs on the Clearaudio TT is great- besides there is a lot of music you cannot get on cd or stream that you could get on vinyl years ago
They both have their place and I have em both with ma 28s holding the fort with 7s for back up surrounds
Like em both analog and diiiigital when it works LOL

Spoken like someone that has never experienced immersive upmixed music. This is NOT "surround sound". No disrespect, and I agree they both have heir place but I almost never engage stereo in my immersive setup anymore. I do use it in my desktop system.

https://www.avsforum.com/auro-3d-music-upmix-demo-stormaudio-isp-3d-16-elite-prepro-ces-2017/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Jul 2018, 08:02 pm
Hi Witchdoctor

What processor do you use - Storm?

james

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 8 Jul 2018, 08:47 pm
Spoken like someone that has never experienced immersive upmixed music. This is NOT "surround sound". No disrespect, and I agree they both have heir place but I almost never engage stereo in my immersive setup anymore. I do use it in my desktop system.

https://www.avsforum.com/auro-3d-music-upmix-demo-stormaudio-isp-3d-16-elite-prepro-ces-2017/

Spoken like someone who has never had a well tuned 2 channel analog setup.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: drummermitchell on 9 Jul 2018, 02:12 am
Guess I'll sell my Vac Sig MK IIA pre amp for $1.49
Then I'll try to upgrade my pair of ears (Two) for 16....no wait 24 fuck it  36 channels of ....
no disrespect either but looking at your set up well,glad I have my Vac and 28's and my room is fully treated :popcorn:.
8:11 pm one  more beer,not dwunk jus dwinkin................................ .................. :duh:.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdayton on 9 Jul 2018, 11:23 am
Running the SP4 in analog bypass would be like hooking a team of horses to a Ferrari. If you get this unit you want to unleash the beast via digital processing. If you want to use a turntable and go analog there are much less expensive alternatives available for a two channel purist setup. This is a SOA fully immersive music and movie beast.
The plan is actually to have an analog 2 in/ 2 out bypass module that will allow both full analog passthrough and expanded output options for the full output matrix. The SP3 has a full bypass mode which a lot of people (including me) use for stereo listening.

There's also the option of doing a home theatre bypass with a preamp like a BP-17 Cubed. Run all of your audiophile sources through your pre, then feed the main L/R outputs of the SP4 to bypass inputs on the BP-17 Cubed.

-G
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 9 Jul 2018, 08:13 pm
Spoken like someone who has never had a well tuned 2 channel analog setup.

IDK if it is "well tuned" but here is a pic of my two channel desktop system. Those are JBL 230's and a Sunfire preamp and Carver amp. The front end is a Bluesound Node.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161007)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163310)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 9 Jul 2018, 08:17 pm
Hi Witchdoctor

What processor do you use - Storm?

james

I use the Marantz 7702 primarily in Audo 3D mode. It has an analog pass through called "Pure Direct" and Atmos sounds fine through an Auro 3D layout.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152962)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182314)



Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 11 Jul 2018, 08:39 am
Hey Gary,

I exclusively use the bypass in my SP3 for all 2ch listening. I'm hoping that a similar functionality will come to exist with the SP4.

Just to confirm, the intent with that module is to have the bypass-able analog output become the front L/R channels? And in turn, they would still function as the processed front L/R channels in any of the processor modes (Dolby Atmos, DTS X, Dolby True HD, DTS-HD Master Audio, etc)? My concern is that analog bypass in the SP4 would essentially become a separate zone, unable to function as part of the regular channels for a movie.

I agree with your HT bypass concept, but at this price point, I (personally) can't justify a processor that can't double as an excellent analog preamp as well.

- Garrett

The plan is actually to have an analog 2 in/ 2 out bypass module that will allow both full analog passthrough and expanded output options for the full output matrix. The SP3 has a full bypass mode which a lot of people (including me) use for stereo listening.

There's also the option of doing a home theatre bypass with a preamp like a BP-17 Cubed. Run all of your audiophile sources through your pre, then feed the main L/R outputs of the SP4 to bypass inputs on the BP-17 Cubed.

-G
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdayton on 11 Jul 2018, 02:10 pm
Yeah, the plan is to let the bypass module double as the front left right. Ideally, we'd like to be able to switch it in and out of the DSP path. One of the really great things about the SP4 is that you can setup different "profiles" for your theater. So, for 2 channel listening, you could have a profile where the bypass module is straight analog passthrough. Then you could switch over to a movie profile where the front left and right outputs are fed from the DSP so you could have EQ, Dirac Live or whatever in the path for front left and right.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdbalp on 12 Jul 2018, 02:34 am
Gary,

First thing, I am a big fan of Bryston products as I have several components....

When considering the SP4, I was surprised that we have lost features that we have on the SP3 as Pre/Pro unit.  If you compare it other Pre/Pro units from Yamaha / Marantz / Integra, it is lacking a more modern features like the  DAC, interface, front mounted ports (USB/HDMI/Headphone jack), analogy inputs for two channel audio, streaming capabilities, AES/EBU inputs, and it costs at least 4 times the cost.  Your idea to use SP4 + BP-17 for two channel audio is not a practical or a cost effective solution and there is a sonic penalty when sampling rates within this unit are only 48 kHz.

There are no specifications on the performance (SNR/THD/Frequency Response/etc..) of the SP4 from what I see on the website, will this be updated at some point?

From what I see you need a smart phone or tablet to navigate the menus options, no sure if this unit can be fully controlled from the front panel?

I still like the fact that I can quickly push buttons on the SP3 and see the response from the Pre/Pro unit and not worry about the battery level in the tablet / smart phone or where it was last located. 

It appears to be more suited for a server based environment than in a listening room, especially with its size - larger than most Pre/Pro units and a fan - noise  is a concern.

I realize that updating the SP3 was an expensive option for Bryston , but it has so much going for it :thumb: :thumb:...

Luigi



 

 
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 12 Jul 2018, 11:33 am
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-4 Processor – Distributor Feedback

July 2018

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182369)

Hi James,

Our Malaysian Audio/Video Show is just a week away so we are auditioning the new Bryston SP-4 Surround Processor which we intend to use at the show.

Have not use the Dirac Live room correction yet but after the initial setup the Bryston SP-4 Surround Processor has tremendous potential.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182370)


Out of the gate, the picture quality is great, even better than the Acurus Act 4 (replaced the SP3) we were using till now.

The sound, it is definitively more immersive and weightier too. Can't wait to hear it after we have the opportunity to do the Dirac Live calibration on the Subs, Centre and Surrounds.

Will keep you posted.

Regards,
James Tan
A/V Designs
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 12 Jul 2018, 04:10 pm
Error
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 12 Jul 2018, 04:19 pm
Gary,

First thing, I am a big fan of Bryston products as I have several components....

When considering the SP4, I was surprised that we have lost features that we have on the SP3 as Pre/Pro unit.  If you compare it other Pre/Pro units from Yamaha / Marantz / Integra, it is lacking a more modern features like the  DAC, interface, front mounted ports (USB/HDMI/Headphone jack), analogy inputs for two channel audio, streaming capabilities, AES/EBU inputs, and it costs at least 4 times the cost.  Your idea to use SP4 + BP-17 for two channel audio is not a practical or a cost effective solution and there is a sonic penalty when sampling rates within this unit are only 48 kHz.

There are no specifications on the performance (SNR/THD/Frequency Response/etc..) of the SP4 from what I see on the website, will this be updated at some point?

From what I see you need a smart phone or tablet to navigate the menus options, no sure if this unit can be fully controlled from the front panel?

I still like the fact that I can quickly push buttons on the SP3 and see the response from the Pre/Pro unit and not worry about the battery level in the tablet / smart phone or where it was last located. 

It appears to be more suited for a server based environment than in a listening room, especially with its size - larger than most Pre/Pro units and a fan - noise  is a concern.

I realize that updating the SP3 was an expensive option for Bryston , but it has so much going for it :thumb: :thumb:...

Luigi

I really don't think Bryston has the SP4 to replace the SP3, but rather, as a supplement to the SP3 for those who value movie listening, ATMOS and AURO, over music listening.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 12 Jul 2018, 05:14 pm
I really don't think Bryston has the SP4 to replace the SP3, but rather, as a supplement to the SP3 for those who value movie listening, ATMOS and AURO, over music listening.

Based on everything I have seen or read about the SP4 I think you are spot on.  In its current form it isn't an audiophile preamp.  It is a multichannel processor for movie sound tracks.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Jul 2018, 12:36 am
For those of you who believe that 2 channel=music and multi channel = movies you are half right. Movies do = multi-channel. But music experienced in immersive format (NOT multi-channel) can sound MUCH better than 2 channel, even if they are only upmixed versions of 2 channel recordings. Until you experience it in your own listening space try and keep an open mind. If you don't believe a witchdoctor check out the guys at Abbey Road and their artist, Pink Floyd. The witchdoctor uses the same auro 3d type speaker layout shown in this video which the SP4 would accomodate. Listen to the engineer at 2:20, "The instruments are allowed to breathe in way they can't in stereo" and at 1:00 "once you take the step into full immersion coming back again is impossible".
Get the SP4, take the step and you will know what we mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMlFN8V4qW4





Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Jul 2018, 12:39 am
Based on everything I have seen or read about the SP4 I think you are spot on.  In its current form it isn't an audiophile preamp.  It is a multichannel processor for movie sound tracks.

It's brand new, what can you have possibly seen or heard at this point?  :scratch:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 13 Jul 2018, 11:20 am
It's brand new, what can you have possibly seen or heard at this point?  :scratch:

There is no analog pass through so everything is digitized.  The digital limit right now is 48 kHz.

What else do I need to know?

I never said it wasn’t a great piece or didn’t sound great.  However, it isn’t going to be embraced by audiophiles without the things I mentioned.  Those items are what make the SP3 special.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 13 Jul 2018, 11:35 am
It's brand new, what can you have possibly seen or heard at this point?  :scratch:

In case you didn't know these units are essentially Storm Audio units which have been a around for a while so there is some information out there. These aren't Bryston designed machines. Bryston will bring their own add on modules to the platform later on like the discussed analog module but the unit will always remain a Storm Audio manufactured device.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 13 Jul 2018, 11:47 am
Right now it's the internal 48kHz that's a deal breaker for me. I was so looking forward to this as it's a less expensive option to the Trinnov units but at 48kHz internal that's undoubtedly one major reason for that.

Maybe I'm a bit different to most but even listening to music an analog bypass is no good to me because I often like to apply matrix surround processing to my music and I wouldn't be willing to drop my high res files down to 48kHz. Unless your source is a turntable the file starts as digital anyways not analog so keeping it digital all the way through to the speaker out is an advantage and being able to apply any processing and EQ at the higher resolutions is the desired option. One could argue though that for ripped CD's 48kHz is upsampling to a higher resolution so there could be an ever so slight advantage there however that's only true of CD's as I believe most low resolution digital files from say HDTracks are at 48kHz vs 44.1 like a CD although there certainly are 44.1 files on HDTracks.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Jul 2018, 12:31 pm
In case you didn't know these units are essentially Storm Audio units which have been a around for a while so there is some information out there. These aren't Bryston designed machines. Bryston will bring their own add on modules to the platform later on like the discussed analog module but the unit will always remain a Storm Audio manufactured device.

Thanks. I have never owned a Storm Unit but have been using Auro 3D for the last few years. Auro 3D used to own Storm Audio so I have been following what is going on over there for as well. Have you seen all of their awards?
https://www.stormaudio.com/en/news/reviews-and-awards/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 13 Jul 2018, 01:31 pm
Those awards do not address the concerns some of us have regarding the Storm's lack of an analog-only signal path.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Jul 2018, 06:09 pm
Just another opinion on the Auomatic upmixer for listening to music with the Storm processor:

page 2/3 paragraph 3:

" As usual, Auromatic made music sound so great I stopped listening to stereo music in stereo mode, preferring the Auromatic option for every type of music I tried"

https://www.stormaudio.com/media/wsr_stormaudio_iisp_3d1612_review_december2017lowres__067250400_0949_22122017.pdf
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 13 Jul 2018, 08:59 pm
Thanks Gary, thats exactly what I wanted to know. :)

I know time estimates are always subject to unexpected delays, but do you have a ballpark? Is this a "within a year" goal, or more like 2-3 years, or?

Yeah, the plan is to let the bypass module double as the front left right. Ideally, we'd like to be able to switch it in and out of the DSP path. One of the really great things about the SP4 is that you can setup different "profiles" for your theater. So, for 2 channel listening, you could have a profile where the bypass module is straight analog passthrough. Then you could switch over to a movie profile where the front left and right outputs are fed from the DSP so you could have EQ, Dirac Live or whatever in the path for front left and right.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: NekoAudio on 13 Jul 2018, 09:03 pm
From what I see you need a smart phone or tablet to navigate the menus options, no sure if this unit can be fully controlled from the front panel?
You can use the front push buttons to switch through some of the items shown on the front screen, like the active configuration or input. You can't use the front push buttons to setup or configure.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Jul 2018, 03:17 pm
For those of you contemplating the SP4 here is something to consider re: speakers. Yes, you will want to install height channels but what speakers should you get? FWIW a LOT of the 4K BRD having Atmos or DTS soundtracks are kind of lame when it comes to the use of the height channels. What they mixed is what you get, like it or lump it. Auro 3D is the only format that allows you to tailor the sound for your room. You can dial in how much to use the height channels from 1-16. You can dial in the size of the room from small, medium and large. The end result is you might prefer the auromatic processing to the native Atmos/DTS mix,
So first thought is do you want an Auro or Atmos layout. Do you want to cut holes in your ceiling? Do you want "upfiring" Atmos speakers? I opted to use the same speaker series I use for bed channels.
IMO if you are using Bryston speakers those on wall TOW speakers would make perfect height channels.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Anonamemouse on 14 Jul 2018, 09:00 pm
Right now it's the internal 48kHz that's a deal breaker for me. I was so looking forward to this as it's a less expensive option to the Trinnov units but at 48kHz internal that's undoubtedly one major reason for that.

Maybe I'm a bit different to most but even listening to music an analog bypass is no good to me because I often like to apply matrix surround processing to my music and I wouldn't be willing to drop my high res files down to 48kHz. Unless your source is a turntable the file starts as digital anyways not analog so keeping it digital all the way through to the speaker out is an advantage and being able to apply any processing and EQ at the higher resolutions is the desired option. One could argue though that for ripped CD's 48kHz is upsampling to a higher resolution so there could be an ever so slight advantage there however that's only true of CD's as I believe most low resolution digital files from say HDTracks are at 48kHz vs 44.1 like a CD although there certainly are 44.1 files on HDTracks.
So it only sounds good when you listen to at least 24/96? I am willing to bet that in a controlled environment, with the focus purely on the music, you will not even be able to hear the difference between 320 mp3 and 24/192 flac.
How can I be so sure? Because trained mastering technicians can barely tell the difference, and they know what to listen for.
You're not a dog, a cat or a bat. 24/48 is plenty, and well over the limits of your hearing range.
Good sound comes from recording, mixing and mastering, not from resolution.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 14 Jul 2018, 09:27 pm
Because trained mastering technicians can barely tell the difference, and they know what to listen for.


That’s BS. Plus, people who listen to music several hours per day can develop a pretty good ear too.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: brucek on 14 Jul 2018, 09:53 pm
You're not a dog, a cat or a bat. 24/48 is plenty, and well over the limits of your hearing range.
Good sound comes from recording, mixing and mastering, not from resolution.

Exactly.

brucek
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Jul 2018, 11:27 pm
So it only sounds good when you listen to at least 24/96? I am willing to bet that in a controlled environment, with the focus purely on the music, you will not even be able to hear the difference between 320 mp3 and 24/192 flac.
How can I be so sure? Because trained mastering technicians can barely tell the difference, and they know what to listen for.
You're not a dog, a cat or a bat. 24/48 is plenty, and well over the limits of your hearing range.
Good sound comes from recording, mixing and mastering, not from resolution.

I don't want my music library down sampled, period. My Lexicon MC-12 from the early 2000's runs at 96kHz with room EQ on 10 channels. I just think that almost 15 years later that a high end SSP can't equal or better that kind of internal processing is lacking.

Now please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think it's because of Dirac that the Storm/SP4 runs at 48kHz but rather a design choice of Storm because I believe the Dirac implementation in the Theta Casablanca runs at 96kHz. If I'm wrong and it is running at 48kHz then it would seem that either a) Dirac is the weak link, b)DSP based designs in general simply do not have the horsepower or c) both a and b
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Jul 2018, 11:30 pm
For those of you contemplating the SP4 here is something to consider re: speakers. Yes, you will want to install height channels but what speakers should you get? FWIW a LOT of the 4K BRD having Atmos or DTS soundtracks are kind of lame when it comes to the use of the height channels. What they mixed is what you get, like it or lump it. Auro 3D is the only format that allows you to tailor the sound for your room. You can dial in how much to use the height channels from 1-16. You can dial in the size of the room from small, medium and large. The end result is you might prefer the auromatic processing to the native Atmos/DTS mix,
So first thought is do you want an Auro or Atmos layout. Do you want to cut holes in your ceiling? Do you want "upfiring" Atmos speakers? I opted to use the same speaker series I use for bed channels.
IMO if you are using Bryston speakers those on wall TOW speakers would make perfect height channels.

I believe I read somewhere over on AVS that Dolby is considering locking down their content so that only their own post processing can be applied to their sound tracks so that means that neither Auromatic or dts:x will no longer be able to be applied.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jul 2018, 01:37 am
Right now it's the internal 48kHz that's a deal breaker for me. I was so looking forward to this as it's a less expensive option to the Trinnov units but at 48kHz internal that's undoubtedly one major reason for that.

Maybe I'm a bit different to most but even listening to music an analog bypass is no good to me because I often like to apply matrix surround processing to my music and I wouldn't be willing to drop my high res files down to 48kHz. Unless your source is a turntable the file starts as digital anyways not analog so keeping it digital all the way through to the speaker out is an advantage and being able to apply any processing and EQ at the higher resolutions is the desired option. One could argue though that for ripped CD's 48kHz is upsampling to a higher resolution so there could be an ever so slight advantage there however that's only true of CD's as I believe most low resolution digital files from say HDTracks are at 48kHz vs 44.1 like a CD although there certainly are 44.1 files on HDTracks.

Unless you need ATMOS, Auro, or room correction, the SP3 is what you need. The SP4 was designed for folks needing those codecs.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jul 2018, 01:40 am
So it only sounds good when you listen to at least 24/96? I am willing to bet that in a controlled environment, with the focus purely on the music, you will not even be able to hear the difference between 320 mp3 and 24/192 flac.
How can I be so sure? Because trained mastering technicians can barely tell the difference, and they know what to listen for.
You're not a dog, a cat or a bat. 24/48 is plenty, and well over the limits of your hearing range.
Good sound comes from recording, mixing and mastering, not from resolution.

I can certainly hear a difference. Its in the high frequencies.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 15 Jul 2018, 01:45 am
The SP3 is basically my MC-12 with HDMI switching but no Logic7 or room EQ so at best it's a lateral move but I personally see it as a lesser SSP so I can't justify the cost of that type of move just to get HDMI, I would need to gain a lot more.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 16 Jul 2018, 03:35 am
I believe I read somewhere over on AVS that Dolby is considering locking down their content so that only their own post processing can be applied to their sound tracks so that means that neither Auromatic or dts:x will no longer be able to be applied.

Link?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 16 Jul 2018, 03:45 am
Another great speaker setup for the SP4 5 would be 5 mini T's as bed channels and 4 mini A'a as height channels.
With 9 or more speakers in the room I think towers are not really needed. I would prefer adding 2 more mini T's as wide channels, then maybe two more as surround back channels if you have the room.
BTW, the VOG channel in Auro is sublime. If you are going this route defintely add that channel. You could use another mini A with the right speaker bracket.

I was just watching concerts on Qello in Auro 3D this evening and was switching back and forth to 2 channel on the remote to compare. 2 channel sounds great until you switch back to immersive audio. Then it sounds just like the wheels came off the system in comparison.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 16 Jul 2018, 03:51 am
Here is a pic of the VOG in my system, that is a Paradigm Shift A2 active speaker pointing down above the sofa. You can see the Paradigm Active 40 rear bed channel and the Active 20 rear height channel on the right side stand above it. I used height stands because active speakers are so heavy, passive speakers would mount easily high on the wall or ceiling with a better WAF :

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161766)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Jul 2018, 02:42 pm
Link?

I'll search for it, it would have been in the Theta, Datasat or Trinnov threads. Apparently it's something that Dolby could have done many years ago but never did, thankfully. I could only see doing something like this as a death strike to Dolby because unlike the DVD era where they basically all had Dolby soundtracks in the Blu-ray era it's dts that has the majority share so most would never even get to use a Dolby product.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Jul 2018, 02:51 pm
Wow, it was further back then I thought, back in May. Looks like it was originally posted over on Audioholics then brought up in the Trinnov thread on AVS where it was discussed briefly.

Here's both links

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1516103-trinnov-altitude-147.html#post56282298

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dolby-non-native-upmixing-atmos

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 16 Jul 2018, 03:30 pm
Wow, it was further back then I thought, back in May. Looks like it was originally posted over on Audioholics then brought up in the Trinnov thread on AVS where it was discussed briefly.

Here's both links

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1516103-trinnov-altitude-147.html#post56282298

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dolby-non-native-upmixing-atmos

If Dolby does this you can still play Atmos content through an SP4, just not upmix it. Atmos plays just fine through an Auro3D speaker setup so I don't see an issue. Let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 16 Jul 2018, 07:45 pm
The SP3 is basically my MC-12 with HDMI switching but no Logic7 or room EQ so at best it's a lateral move but I personally see it as a lesser SSP so I can't justify the cost of that type of move just to get HDMI, I would need to gain a lot more.

Sorry, but you are as wrong as two left shoes.  :o
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Jul 2018, 09:21 pm
Sorry, but you are as wrong as two left shoes.  :o

I of course don't mean that literally as if the MC-12 is a rebadged SP3, in fact it's well known that the Lexicon MC-14 was a rebadged SP3.

Sure on the digital side the SP3 can accept up to 192/24 whereas the MC-12 is limited to 96/24 and if comparing the SP3 to the MC-12HD the HDMI specs are 1.4 (2.0 on upgraded/new units) on the SP3 and only 1.2 (I believe) on the MC-12 but both are 10 channel units, have 192/24 DACs, analog bypass but the M-12 has Logic 7 which in my experience is far superior to Dolby PLIIx, dts:Neo and THX Ultra plus the MC-12 has room EQ. I'm not sure if the SP3 can do this but the MC-12 can digitize a 5.1 analog source so that Logic 7/PLIIx/dts:Neo/THX Ultra and room EQ can be applied but to be fair with the SP3 having HDMI it's easier to send SACD/DVD-A from a source device as a digital signal to the SP3 vs an extra round of D/A to A/D conversion. I believe on the MC-12HD you could send DVD-A over HDMI but not SACD as that wasn't allowed until the later version of the HDMI spec.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 17 Jul 2018, 03:19 pm
IMPORTANT:

Hi Folks,

The Bryston SP-4 Processor iOS IPAD App is now available on AppStore – see attached.
Just go to App Store on your IPAD and type in SP4

james



(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182539)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182540)

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 18 Jul 2018, 02:20 pm
If you are new to immersive audio and want to get a taste get down to the local movie theater. This video describes the different formats. My experience is the theater does a good job of giving you the immersive experience but generally you can do an even better job at home with the right setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0ls_fNU6Y
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 19 Jul 2018, 04:17 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182587)


Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 20 Jul 2018, 03:33 pm
I of course don't mean that literally as if the MC-12 is a rebadged SP3, in fact it's well known that the Lexicon MC-14 was a rebadged SP3.

Sure on the digital side the SP3 can accept up to 192/24 whereas the MC-12 is limited to 96/24 and if comparing the SP3 to the MC-12HD the HDMI specs are 1.4 (2.0 on upgraded/new units) on the SP3 and only 1.2 (I believe) on the MC-12 but both are 10 channel units, have 192/24 DACs, analog bypass but the M-12 has Logic 7 which in my experience is far superior to Dolby PLIIx, dts:Neo and THX Ultra plus the MC-12 has room EQ. I'm not sure if the SP3 can do this but the MC-12 can digitize a 5.1 analog source so that Logic 7/PLIIx/dts:Neo/THX Ultra and room EQ can be applied but to be fair with the SP3 having HDMI it's easier to send SACD/DVD-A from a source device as a digital signal to the SP3 vs an extra round of D/A to A/D conversion. I believe on the MC-12HD you could send DVD-A over HDMI but not SACD as that wasn't allowed until the later version of the HDMI spec.

Rod, you need to quit these kinds of post. There is no similarity between the MC-12 and the SP3, period.  :o
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Aug 2018, 03:26 pm
First Review on the new Bryston SP-4 Processor

https://hometheaterhifi.com/news/product-previews/bryston-sp4-16-channel-surround-processor-preview/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 9 Aug 2018, 02:41 am
JT, how does the DAC on the SP4 compare to your stand alone dacs or is that an apple and oranges comparison?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 9 Aug 2018, 10:42 am
JT, how does the DAC on the SP4 compare to your stand alone dacs or is that an apple and oranges comparison?

Hi

Yes apples and oranges as the DAC's in the BDA-3 are AKM Stereo DACs whereas the DAC in the SP4 is a 16 channel Analog Devices multi-channel DAC.

james



Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 21 Aug 2018, 03:53 pm
Hi Folks,
 
This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=rvAcJASRSlg) is part of a pre-CEDIA promo campaign we are doing with CE Pro to enhance visibility for the SP4 and the Bryston brand to integrators who serve luxury consumers. I think Gary did a great job.
 
This will be promoted on CE Pro’s website and via their email lists.
 
Thank you,
 
Micah Sheveloff
WIRC Media
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 21 Aug 2018, 06:11 pm
...enhance visibility for the SP4 and the Bryston brand to integrators who serve luxury consumers....
 

Micah Sheveloff
WIRC Media

Well that excludes me.  :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 22 Aug 2018, 05:38 pm
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-4 Surround Processor – Feature Article

August 2018

Hi Folks

Please see link below regarding the new Bryston SP-4 Surround processor.

       
“Many companies talk a good game, but few companies can back up the talk like the Canadian manufacturer Bryston.”

LINK to article:

https://www.cepro.com/article/fit_for_post_production_applications_bryston_sp4_cinema_processor_delivers

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 25 Aug 2018, 03:40 pm
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-4 Surround Processor – UK Impressed!

August 2018

Hi Folks,

Great to see the new Bryston SP-4 Surround Processor is making a big splash across the pond!

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183666)

Unilet Sound and Vision

“After the unparalleled performance of the SP3 with both music as well as movies, we’re finally glad to reveal that the Bryston SP4 brings all of this and more with unrivalled scalability, the latest audio formats and Dirac room correction.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183667)

The SP4 is now available to order. Contact us on 02089429567 for details”
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 14 Sep 2018, 04:24 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184418)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 15 Sep 2018, 12:32 pm
Hi Folks,

Please see link below - Gary Dayton interview video on the Bryston SP-4 processor at CEDIA 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd3gsq_Kym0

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 18 Sep 2018, 01:19 pm
Good video, it explains the highlights quite well.

It's very disappointing though that the unit is locked at a paltry 48kHz, this is omitted from all of the info I've seen on the unit thus far. With the max sample rate of 192kHz and DAC's capable of of the same I feel you are doing potential customers a disservice by not pointing out that the actual internal processing is really only 48kHz and the impact that has on content with greater than 48kHz resolution. Thus the following is very misleading from your brochure:

"Bryston isn’t just for audiophiles. Music and movie professionals rely on Bryston to make their masterpieces. Hear at home what the artist intended with a Bryston SP4 theater."

The "...Hear at home what the artist intended with a Bryston SP4 theater." is very misleading. That's where you should be pointing out for customers wanting native high resolution they need to look to your SP3 platform.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 18 Sep 2018, 02:36 pm
Hi Rod

Point taken but most movies are at 48K and the SP4 is really geared to that market.  But it is something to consider going forward.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 18 Sep 2018, 02:53 pm
Yeah, the more knowledgeable enthusiasts among us do know that so they would know what the trade-offs are if in fact there are any as it's totally dependent on whether the customer has any high res content.

I'm not trying to be an ass about it :) just in case it came across that way it's just providing the customer with the knowledge up front allows them to make the most informed decision as this is a very expensive unit thus some may assume it will do practically anything :)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 18 Sep 2018, 06:35 pm
Hi Rod

Point taken but most movies are at 48K and the SP4 is really geared to that market.

james

Thats why I prefer an SP3. But, if you are into object based sound that does not mimic real life experiences, get an SP4 to get those object based codecs.  :lol:  At least Bryston has everyone covered.  8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: brucek on 18 Sep 2018, 08:20 pm
Thats why I prefer an SP3. But, if you are into object based sound that does not mimic real life experiences, get an SP4 to get those object based codecs.  :lol:  At least Bryston has everyone covered.  8)

Certainly if you read the description of the SP3 and SP4, it's fairly clear that the SP3 is a Surround Processor / Preamplifier and the SP4 is a Home Theater Processor along with its object based codecs. When I saw its release I was surprised, given Bryston's penchant for acronyms, they might have given it a name such as the SPT (with the T for theater). The SP4 moniker almost made it seem like an upgrade for audiophiles that had the SP3, so in that regard I agree with Rod_S. I think perhaps Bryston should have started a new path and a new acronym for the SP4, but what do I know?

brucek
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 18 Sep 2018, 10:02 pm
Certainly if you read the description of the SP3 and SP4, it's fairly clear that the SP3 is a Surround Processor / Preamplifier and the SP4 is a Home Theater Processor along with its object based codecs. When I saw its release I was surprised, given Bryston's penchant for acronyms, they might have given it a name such as the SPT (with the T for theater). The SP4 moniker almost made it seem like an upgrade for audiophiles that had the SP3, so in that regard I agree with Rod_S. I think perhaps Bryston should have started a new path and a new acronym for the SP4, but what do I know?

brucek

I think the only reason Bryston has the SP4 is that some folks wanted the new codecs (object based) whether they are realistic or not. And, some folks like room correction accuracy be damned. I for one do not believe a room can be equalized for every seat in the room; only the sweet spot, and then you introduce other problems.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 19 Sep 2018, 09:21 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184623)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 25 Sep 2018, 06:02 pm
Good video, it explains the highlights quite well.

It's very disappointing though that the unit is locked at a paltry 48kHz, this is omitted from all of the info I've seen on the unit thus far. With the max sample rate of 192kHz and DAC's capable of of the same I feel you are doing potential customers a disservice by not pointing out that the actual internal processing is really only 48kHz and the impact that has on content with greater than 48kHz resolution. Thus the following is very misleading from your brochure:

"Bryston isn’t just for audiophiles. Music and movie professionals rely on Bryston to make their masterpieces. Hear at home what the artist intended with a Bryston SP4 theater."

Rod, I have a suspicion that Bryston will in the future release a software upgrade to the SP4 allowing it to play 192/24 hi res material. I believe when the SP3 was originally released, it was limited to PCM 96/24 and later software upgraded to 192/24.
The "...Hear at home what the artist intended with a Bryston SP4 theater." is very misleading. That's where you should be pointing out for customers wanting native high resolution they need to look to your SP3 platform.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 25 Sep 2018, 06:24 pm
Hi Folks,

Most movies are done at 48K currently but our intention is to offer optional plug in modules for the SP4 going forward for higher bitrates and analog passthrough.

Currently the SP4 is a state of the art movie processor and offers many more features than the SP-3 so it is a different target market currently.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 25 Sep 2018, 10:41 pm
I think the only reason Bryston has the SP4 is that some folks wanted the new codecs (object based) whether they are realistic or not. And, some folks like room correction accuracy be damned. I for one do not believe a room can be equalized for every seat in the room; only the sweet spot, and then you introduce other problems.

I think most acoustic engineers would strongly disagree with you.  Most of the measurements taken in my room were not from the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 26 Sep 2018, 02:18 pm
I think most acoustic engineers would strongly disagree with you.

Especially the engineers who are promoting room correction. Sorry, but I like my music unadulterated and I'd rather rather rely on acoustic treatment and speaker placement. In the '70s, I experimented with all kinds of parametric equalizers and the like, and the music always sounded better when I bypassed the equalizer. I agree with James Tanner on this subject.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 26 Sep 2018, 04:45 pm
Especially the engineers who are promoting room correction. Sorry, but I like my music unadulterated and I'd rather rather rely on acoustic treatment and speaker placement. In the '70s, I experimented with all kinds of parametric equalizers and the like, and the music always sounded better when I bypassed the equalizer. I agree with James Tanner on this subject.

I am not talking about equalization.  I am talking about room treatments.  I listen to 95% analog so clearly I don't use room correction.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 26 Sep 2018, 04:51 pm
Hi Folks,

Most movies are done at 48K currently but our intention is to offer optional plug in modules for the SP4 going forward for higher bitrates and analog passthrough.

Currently the SP4 is a state of the art movie processor and offers many more features than the SP-3 so it is a different target market currently.

james

The plug in modules will be good to give people better overall resolution out of the unit (ideally up to 192kHz but 96kHz minimum) however I suspect these will be limited to stereo correct? Not act as an upgrade to the overall underlying architecture where you would then be able to input high res multi-channel content and maintain the higher resolution throughout any desired matrix processing or Dirac Live EQ?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 26 Sep 2018, 06:19 pm
I am not talking about equalization.  I am talking about room treatments.  I listen to 95% analog so clearly I don't use room correction.

Sorry. You and I are allies and on the same page.  8) :oops:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 30 Sep 2018, 05:29 pm
Hi Folks,

Just an update:

We have a review on the Bryston SP-4 Processor coming very soon from Secrets of Home Theater.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185023)

Which will be followed by a review in Widescreen Review Magazine.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185024)

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 1 Oct 2018, 11:36 am


Sorry, I didn't see this as it appears your comment was included within my quote above.

It looks like your comment was:

"Rod, I have a suspicion that Bryston will in the future release a software upgrade to the SP4 allowing it to play 192/24 hi res material. I believe when the SP3 was originally released, it was limited to PCM 96/24 and later software upgraded to 192/24."

We'll certainly get that via an add on module as James has indicated (not sure about 192/24 but I certainly expect 96/24) however I suspect that will be limited to 2 channel only and possibly Dirac wouldn't even be able to be applied. I'm not sure how much actual above 96/24 multi-channel content is out there so that may be a moot point but there is certainly plenty of 96/24 multi-channel content.

I'm not sure this could be done via firmware though. I suspect it's a hardware limitation, perhaps Bryston could chime in on if it's possible to do via firmware or would require more DSP horsepower.

I know 96/24 with Dirac and Atmos/dts:X/Auro can certainly be done via DSP's as that's what the Theta and Datasat units run at but I'm not sure about 192/24 as only the Trinnov Altitude32 (and not the Altitude16) can do that but it's not DSP based, it's an Intel Pentium i7 (the Altitude16 is an i5 I believe). I asked Emotiva what their new unit will run at internally but they wouldn't disclose that until the unit is released. Since it's also a Dirac unit it will be a valid comparison to determine if Storm/Bryston are behind the 8 ball on the technology/infrastructure side or if say the Emotiva ends up only running at 48/24 then it may just be a design choice/cost saving decision.

The SP4 is considerably cheaper than the Trinnov Altitude and Theta Casablanca but I believe very in-line with the Datasat LS10. It'll probably be more expensive than the Emotiva  RMC-1 based on Emotiva's pricing models.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 1 Oct 2018, 03:22 pm
Thanks Rod. You are correct. My error.  :duh:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 8 Oct 2018, 12:27 am
The leap from PCM to MQA is substantial.

The leap from "surround sound" to "immersive sound" is staggering.

I think the SP4 is going to stun the current SP3 users, even without MQA.

Withdoctor, you own no Bryston gear. Please take your cheerleading for MQA elsewhere. In addition the SP3 and the SP4 are marketed to two different customer bases. Buy some Bryston gear and then you will understand the audio philosophy of Bryson and its customer base.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 9 Oct 2018, 07:21 pm
Hi Folks,

The review on the Bryston SP-4 processor will be out very soon from Secrets of Home Theater.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185330)

Sneak Peek:

Conclusion:

The Bryston SP4 made my system sound truly spectacular!

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Oct 2018, 03:20 pm
Nice review, congrats-

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/bryston-sp4-16-channel-surround-processor-review/

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Oct 2018, 03:37 pm
From the review:

I tried all three immersive upmixers on “West Side Story Reimagined” and other 2-channel music. I always preferred Auro-Matic.

Auromatic is da bomb. Set it and forget it IMO. Auromatic let's you tailor it for the size of your room and how much you want to engage the height speakers. Atmos and DTS-X don't.
I find this preferable on both music and movies.
To add speakers (like the new active mini A) for height channels in an auro 3d layout just mount them above the front L-R and the rear surrounds. No carving holes in your ceiling.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 31 Oct 2018, 07:33 am

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186186)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 31 Oct 2018, 02:53 pm
Whether you use an Atmos layout or an Auro 3D layout I recommend having a two center channels, one above the screen and one below the screen. It really makes a difference in both movies and music. Before I added one I felt it was fine the way it was with a single center channel below the screen. After adding one the vocals just sound more "immersive" and I'm glad I added the second one up top. Auro calls this a "height center". You may as well use the added channels provided by the SP4:

https://www.dvdfr.com/images/anecdotic/_news/2016/auro_13_1.jpg



Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 27 Dec 2018, 05:40 pm
Do any SP4 owners want to share a review? What speaker configuration are you using? How does it compare to other processors you have used or auditioned?

Did Widescreen publish the SP4 review yet?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 4 Jan 2019, 05:45 pm
Any CES announcements to be expected about the expansion modules, pricing, timing etc?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 4 Jan 2019, 05:50 pm
Any CES announcements to be expected about the expansion modules, pricing, timing etc?

Hi Rod

No we are not attending CES.

James
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 5 Jan 2019, 12:43 am
JT, any anecdotal SP4 content you could post would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 5 Jan 2019, 12:49 am
JT, any anecdotal SP4 content you could post would be appreciated.

Hi

So far all I can say is we are constantly back-ordered so very happy with the response so far.

james

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Jan 2019, 01:46 pm
Now that tv manufacturers are bringing HDMI 2.1 to market this year (LG OLED's and Sony 8k LCD) while others are implementing a lot of HDMI 2.1 features within their HDMI 2.0b firmware (Panasonic and Sony OLED's) how is the SP4 going to accommodate this? For example can the SP4 actually passthru VRR (variable refresh rate), ALLM (auto low latency mode) and can it accept the features from eARC on it's 2 outputs? Obviously the SP4 can't immediately be upgraded to HDMI 2.1 because MDS as of yet has no 2.1 boards but it would be good to see the SP4 at least be able to passthru these features if not fully accommodate via firmware updates. I believe native 8K@60Hz (which there is still practically no content yet) and 4K@120Hz (may exist already for PC gamers??) do require actual HDMI 2.1 chipsets for the 48Gbps bandwidth
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 16 Jan 2019, 06:12 pm
Now that tv manufacturers are bringing HDMI 2.1 to market this year (LG OLED's and Sony 8k LCD) while others are implementing a lot of HDMI 2.1 features within their HDMI 2.0b firmware (Panasonic and Sony OLED's) how is the SP4 going to accommodate this? For example can the SP4 actually passthru VRR (variable refresh rate), ALLM (auto low latency mode) and can it accept the features from eARC on it's 2 outputs? Obviously the SP4 can't immediately be upgraded to HDMI 2.1 because MDS as of yet has no 2.1 boards but it would be good to see the SP4 at least be able to passthru these features if not fully accommodate via firmware updates. I believe native 8K@60Hz (which there is still practically no content yet) and 4K@120Hz (may exist already for PC gamers??) do require actual HDMI 2.1 chipsets for the 48Gbps bandwidth

Hi

Yes that is something we are looking at which would be an HDMI board replacement.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Jan 2019, 06:34 pm
Hi

Yes that is something we are looking at which would be an HDMI board replacement.

james

So when you say board replacement do you mean wait for MDS to produce a fully compliant 2.1 board or do you mean you need a more current HDMI 2.0b board, one that is capable of being updated to implement eARC, VRR and ALLM? I would imagine an updated 2.0 board would be considered a near term solution whereas a 2.1 board would be seen as a more distant future upgrade pending MDS's ability to produce one within the next 2 years or so.

To my knowledge there was no mention at CES of MDS coming to market with their updated boards so that would imply their offerings would probably be at least a year away.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 16 Jan 2019, 09:13 pm
So when you say board replacement do you mean wait for MDS to produce a fully compliant 2.1 board or do you mean you need a more current HDMI 2.0b board, one that is capable of being updated to implement eARC, VRR and ALLM? I would imagine an updated 2.0 board would be considered a near term solution whereas a 2.1 board would be seen as a more distant future upgrade pending MDS's ability to produce one within the next 2 years or so.

To my knowledge there was no mention at CES of MDS coming to market with their updated boards so that would imply their offerings would probably be at least a year away.

We are not relying on MDS going forward.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Jan 2019, 10:21 pm
Ah, very interesting.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 17 Jan 2019, 06:08 pm
Will the new cards from another manufacturer continue to be a 7x2 card design which was a MDS limitation for HDMI 2.0 (they used to be 8x2 on their 1.4 cards)? I see Emotiva's new SSP will be a 8x2 card.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 17 Jan 2019, 06:09 pm
Will the new cards from another manufacturer continue to be a 7x2 card design which was a MDS limitation for HDMI 2.0 (they used to be 8x2 on their 1.4 cards)? I see Emotiva's new SSP will be a 8x2 card.

Not sure on that.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 18 Jan 2019, 06:05 pm
Is this something you are targeting for this year, or is it at least a year off?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 18 Jan 2019, 09:42 pm
Is this something you are targeting for this year, or is it at least a year off?

HI Rod

A year at least.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 28 Feb 2019, 11:53 am
Hi Folks,

The Bryston SP-4 is a big hit at the Bristol Show in the UK with PMC.

https://www.stereonet.co.uk/news/pmc-dolby-atmos-demo-wins-fans-and-award-at-bristol-hi-fi-show

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 28 Feb 2019, 11:59 am
Wow! That's a nice award James and quite a compliment. If the Atmos Music files they used for the demo become available for sale or download please post and let us know.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 28 Feb 2019, 05:54 pm
James, you see what I have been saying about using immersive audio for music? It is fantastic, when are you going to try it yourself and if you already did, what was your experience? Interesting that PMC chose a music demo as opposed to movie clips isn't it?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 28 Feb 2019, 05:57 pm
James, you see what I have been saying about using immersive audio for music? It is fantastic, when are you going to try it yourself and if you already did, what was your experience? Interesting that PMC chose a music demo as opposed to movie clips isn't it?

Hi

Yes I have experimented with the immersive sound but I am old and antiquated so i still prefer a straight ahead Stereo perspective in my own system.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 28 Feb 2019, 07:07 pm
Hi

Yes I have experimented with the immersive sound but I am old and antiquated so i still prefer a straight ahead Stereo perspective in my own system.

james

In my experience MORE speakers work better with old and antiquated listeners :)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 1 Mar 2019, 09:51 pm
So no typical IR hard button control solution thus it won't come with it's own handheld remote and would not likely be compatible with learning remotes such as a Harmony?

Any further info re: the IR remote? the Secret's review mentioned a beta firmware activating the IR port
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 12 Mar 2019, 06:29 pm
Bryston SP-4 Review

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191957)

February 2019

MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-4 Processor – Widescreen Review

March 2019



Hi Folks,

Please see link below on a review of our new Bryston SP4 Immersive Surround Processor in the February issue of Widescreen Review Magazine.


PDF of full review available here … Page 40

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1562x2ztuffv0o/Widescreen%20Review%20February%202019%20issue.pdf?dl=0



Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Mar 2019, 03:30 am
So I read this review and I am shocked, saddened, and curious. The witchdoctor has been the only advocate of immersive sound and particularly the Auro -3D format in AC since 2017. I have been flamed, tarred and feathered, had my account restricted, and laughed at for the "heresy" of my experience by a bunch of members who had NEVER experienced it themselves in their own space. They just shut it down, bah, hum bug.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150038.0

Did you notice who started THIS thread? Yes, the witchdoctor did. I am genuinely excited that Bryston decided to get on the immersive train and with possibly the BEST partner in Storm Audio. Storm was previously owned by Auro 3D so believe me, they know immersive audio.
Now along comes this review which basically validates my experience and what happens? 0. Check this thread and the only reply I get from James about immersive audio is lukewarm at best.
Guys don't you GET it? You have possibly the BEST processor using the BEST format and in business that is known as a competitive advantage.
My Auro 3D ACTIVE home theater. If there are any others going immersive PLEASE post some pics OK?:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152962)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161765)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 13 Mar 2019, 12:49 pm
Let's not get carried away :)

I'm sure the Bryston/StormAudio unit is a good, or really good SSP but it falls short spec wise to the Trinnov Altitude32 platform when it comes to overall fidelity and even the Altitude16, Daatsat LS10 and Theta Casablanca. If you are only concerned with running movies through it then fine, the 48/24 limitation of the Bryston/Storm units are not a limitation at all but if you are running through high res music or concert Blu-rays with 96/24 sound tracks the SP4 down samples that to it's internal 48/24 resolution then it gets upsampled back at the DAC stage. Far from ideal.

I know there is talk of a Bryston module allowing for higher resolution in the future but I suspect that will be 2 channel only, possibly only a bypass module of sorts not allowing Dirac, post processing etc. to be applied at higher resolution. If the units go to 96/24 (192/24 highly unlikely) in the future I believe that has to be a change on the StormAudio end because Dirac needs to run at those resolutions as does everything else internally. Not a simple change at all.

The Trinnov on the other hand can handle 192/24 internally up to 24 channels I believe then 96/24 up to it's 32 channel count. OK sure, it's a lot more expensive so lets look elsewhere, the Altitude16 can run internally at 96/24 and the Datasat LS10 can do the same and both are much more comparable to the SP4 in price. At the moment I still haven't received confirmation of the internal resolution of the Emotiva RMC-1 which is also using Dirac. The Theta Casablanca can as well but it's very pricey like the Altitude32. If channel count is a big concern then these may not meet the needs of everyone because they are all capped at 16 channels unlike the Altitude32 and StormAudio's own SSP's. I'm not sure if Bryston is offering any of the StormAudio 32 channel units but even if they are all of the units are capped at 48/24.

I believe it's unclear presently if Dirac can even run at 192/24, well at least in SSP's which are all using DSP chips. I suspect it probably can on a PC though. What allows Trinnov to run their EQ at those resolutions it is it uses an Intel chip not a DSP.

If the Bryston/StormAudio units were doing 96/24 I would already own one as I don't currently or in the future see a need for more than 16 channels plus I can't afford even the Altitude32 8-16. There is no Datasat dealers even remotely near where I live so that's why I haven't gone that direction. Like with the Altitude32 I can't afford Theta's Casablanca and for some reason here in Canada the Altitude16 isn't much cheaper than the 32 8-16 which is unfortunate as I have a Trinnov retailer just up the street.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 13 Mar 2019, 02:20 pm
Bryston is not embracing object based sound, but rather, it is accommodating those who like object based through the SP4. :roll:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Mar 2019, 05:14 pm
Bryston is not embracing object based sound, but rather, it is accommodating those who like object based through the SP4. :roll:

Object based? Auro-3D is channel based. The point in the review is that the majority of "object based" mixes in their current state stink. The producers feed the mix through an algorithm that decides what to pan to height channels. They have the ability to have engineers do an outstanding mix but just don't yet.
Auromatic let's you dial in the size of your room, the type of content you are watching, and how much you want to engage your height channels.
It's just better  :D

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Mar 2019, 06:14 pm
Let's not get carried away :)

I'm sure the Bryston/StormAudio unit is a good, or really good SSP but it falls short spec wise to the Trinnov Altitude32 platform when it comes to overall fidelity and even the Altitude16, Daatsat LS10 and Theta Casablanca. If you are only concerned with running movies through it then fine, the 48/24 limitation of the Bryston/Storm units are not a limitation at all but if you are running through high res music or concert Blu-rays with 96/24 sound tracks the SP4 down samples that to it's internal 48/24 resolution then it gets upsampled back at the DAC stage. Far from ideal.

I know there is talk of a Bryston module allowing for higher resolution in the future but I suspect that will be 2 channel only, possibly only a bypass module of sorts not allowing Dirac, post processing etc. to be applied at higher resolution. If the units go to 96/24 (192/24 highly unlikely) in the future I believe that has to be a change on the StormAudio end because Dirac needs to run at those resolutions as does everything else internally. Not a simple change at all.

The Trinnov on the other hand can handle 192/24 internally up to 24 channels I believe then 96/24 up to it's 32 channel count. OK sure, it's a lot more expensive so lets look elsewhere, the Altitude16 can run internally at 96/24 and the Datasat LS10 can do the same and both are much more comparable to the SP4 in price. At the moment I still haven't received confirmation of the internal resolution of the Emotiva RMC-1 which is also using Dirac. The Theta Casablanca can as well but it's very pricey like the Altitude32. If channel count is a big concern then these may not meet the needs of everyone because they are all capped at 16 channels unlike the Altitude32 and StormAudio's own SSP's. I'm not sure if Bryston is offering any of the StormAudio 32 channel units but even if they are all of the units are capped at 48/24.

I believe it's unclear presently if Dirac can even run at 192/24, well at least in SSP's which are all using DSP chips. I suspect it probably can on a PC though. What allows Trinnov to run their EQ at those resolutions it is it uses an Intel chip not a DSP.

If the Bryston/StormAudio units were doing 96/24 I would already own one as I don't currently or in the future see a need for more than 16 channels plus I can't afford even the Altitude32 8-16. There is no Datasat dealers even remotely near where I live so that's why I haven't gone that direction. Like with the Altitude32 I can't afford Theta's Casablanca and for some reason here in Canada the Altitude16 isn't much cheaper than the 32 8-16 which is unfortunate as I have a Trinnov retailer just up the street.

This is why Bryston needs to leverage this review. Going head to head with datasat/trinnov what is bryton's BIGGEST competitive advantage? I suppose James can answer better than a witchdoctor but IMO it is brand recognition.
Next you have the Bryston product portfolio and customer base. I see datasat as primarily PRO gear with a side business for consumers: https://www.datasatdigital.com/company-overview/

and Trinnov as a one trick pony focused on custom installed home theaters. If I were a Bryton dealer I would get out the rolodex and start upselling/cross selling everyone who bought a bryston product in the last 20 years after e-mailing/mailing them that review. Next would be "movie night" in the store with an auro 3D demo coupled with a trade in/discount policy for customers who upgrade.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Mar 2019, 06:20 pm
Hi

Yes I have experimented with the immersive sound but I am old and antiquated so i still prefer a straight ahead Stereo perspective in my own system.

james

James, why not just stick to two channel marketing and hire a young buck to lead your immersive product sales?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Mar 2019, 08:20 pm
Video of the PMC/ Bryston SP4 demo at the Bristol Show, congrats on the award:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUytlzyhXaY
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 13 Mar 2019, 08:35 pm
Let's not get carried away :)

I'm sure the Bryston/StormAudio unit is a good, or really good SSP but it falls short spec wise to the Trinnov Altitude32 platform when it comes to overall fidelity and even the Altitude16, Daatsat LS10 and Theta Casablanca. If you are only concerned with running movies through it then fine, the 48/24 limitation of the Bryston/Storm units are not a limitation at all but if you are running through high res music or concert Blu-rays with 96/24 sound tracks the SP4 down samples that to it's internal 48/24 resolution then it gets upsampled back at the DAC stage. Far from ideal.

I know there is talk of a Bryston module allowing for higher resolution in the future but I suspect that will be 2 channel only, possibly only a bypass module of sorts not allowing Dirac, post processing etc. to be applied at higher resolution. If the units go to 96/24 (192/24 highly unlikely) in the future I believe that has to be a change on the StormAudio end because Dirac needs to run at those resolutions as does everything else internally. Not a simple change at all.

The Trinnov on the other hand can handle 192/24 internally up to 24 channels I believe then 96/24 up to it's 32 channel count. OK sure, it's a lot more expensive so lets look elsewhere, the Altitude16 can run internally at 96/24 and the Datasat LS10 can do the same and both are much more comparable to the SP4 in price. At the moment I still haven't received confirmation of the internal resolution of the Emotiva RMC-1 which is also using Dirac. The Theta Casablanca can as well but it's very pricey like the Altitude32. If channel count is a big concern then these may not meet the needs of everyone because they are all capped at 16 channels unlike the Altitude32 and StormAudio's own SSP's. I'm not sure if Bryston is offering any of the StormAudio 32 channel units but even if they are all of the units are capped at 48/24.

I believe it's unclear presently if Dirac can even run at 192/24, well at least in SSP's which are all using DSP chips. I suspect it probably can on a PC though. What allows Trinnov to run their EQ at those resolutions it is it uses an Intel chip not a DSP.

If the Bryston/StormAudio units were doing 96/24 I would already own one as I don't currently or in the future see a need for more than 16 channels plus I can't afford even the Altitude32 8-16. There is no Datasat dealers even remotely near where I live so that's why I haven't gone that direction. Like with the Altitude32 I can't afford Theta's Casablanca and for some reason here in Canada the Altitude16 isn't much cheaper than the 32 8-16 which is unfortunate as I have a Trinnov retailer just up the street.


The RMC-1 has a long way to go before it should be considered by anyone. Its, at best, in beta stage.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 13 Mar 2019, 09:14 pm
James, why not just stick to two channel marketing and hire a young buck to lead your immersive product sales?

Witchdoctor, I don't think you get it. Folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Most have full range speakers and are interested in two channel only. However, you need full range speakers for that. From photos you post of your own gear, I don't think you use full range speakers, but rather limited range speakers with possibly and 80Hz crossover frequency and a sub.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Mar 2019, 10:38 pm
Witchdoctor, I don't think you get it. Folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Most have full range speakers and are interested in two channel only. However, you need full range speakers for that. From photos you post of your own gear, I don't think you use full range speakers, but rather limited range speakers with possibly and 80Hz crossover frequency and a sub.

Gbaby, let me see, folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Then, Bryston puts out what is arguably the best immersive processor on the market??? 2 and 2 doesn't add up.
I am not affiliated with Bryston but I can make a wild guess that they are interested in NEW customers who ARE interested in immersive audio, what do you think? I am glad you checked out my gear, thank you! These are active speakers and reach much lower in bass extension than the passive version, here are the specs. I have tried crossing them over at 80hz but 40 hz sounds better in my room. When I run Audyssey it sets them at full range too. The active 40's actually go as low as the Bryston Middle T, even though they are about the size of a Mini T. The active 20 goes as low as the mini T even though it is about the size of the mini A :

http://www.cain.cainslair.com/Paradigm%20Reference%20Active%20Series%20Specifications.htm

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 14 Mar 2019, 02:59 pm
Gbaby, let me see, folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Then, Bryston puts out what is arguably the best immersive processor on the market??? 2 and 2 doesn't add up.
I am not affiliated with Bryston but I can make a wild guess that they are interested in NEW customers who ARE interested in immersive audio, what do you think? I am glad you checked out my gear, thank you! These are active speakers and reach much lower in bass extension than the passive version, here are the specs. I have tried crossing them over at 80hz but 40 hz sounds better in my room. When I run Audyssey it sets them at full range too. The active 40's actually go as low as the Bryston Middle T, even though they are about the size of a Mini T. The active 20 goes as low as the mini T even though it is about the size of the mini A :

http://www.cain.cainslair.com/Paradigm%20Reference%20Active%20Series%20Specifications.htm

I cannot speak for Bryston, but of course they want new customers. But, I stand by my original statement that the SP4 was an accommodation for folks who like object based and Auro or whatever the codec. But, its focus is two channel sound which is the reason the SP3 is still in the line up and which is still selling. The SP3 is a processor more configured for two channel music which by happenstance plays surround and the SP4 is a processor that is configured for movies buy will play music.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Mar 2019, 03:05 pm
I cannot speak for Bryston, but of course they want new customers. But, I stand by my original statement that the SP4 was an accommodation for folks who like object based and Auro or whatever the codec. But, its focus is two channel sound which is the reason the SP3 is still in the line up and which is still selling. The SP3 is a processor more configured for two channel music which by happenstance plays surround and the SP4 is a processor that is configured for movies buy will play music.

Gbaby if the SP3 floats your boat by all means go for it. I have not auditioned the SP4 so can't speak to it's two channel capabilities. If you haven't auditioned one either I suggest you don't have a clue to its capabilities, movies, music, or in between :)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Mar 2019, 03:25 pm

The RMC-1 has a long way to go before it should be considered by anyone. Its, at best, in beta stage.

Ah interesting, I haven't been keeping up on it's progress but if it turns out that it's internally running at 96/24, once all of the bugs get worked out then it's a more capable SSP with respect to overall resolution preservation then the Storm/Bryston units. Of course teh Storm/Bryston units have the edge in channel counts offering greater than 16 channels but personally I would take resolution over channel counts above 16.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Mar 2019, 03:39 pm
This is why Bryston needs to leverage this review. Going head to head with datasat/trinnov what is bryton's BIGGEST competitive advantage? I suppose James can answer better than a witchdoctor but IMO it is brand recognition.
Next you have the Bryston product portfolio and customer base. I see datasat as primarily PRO gear with a side business for consumers: https://www.datasatdigital.com/company-overview/

and Trinnov as a one trick pony focused on custom installed home theaters. If I were a Bryton dealer I would get out the rolodex and start upselling/cross selling everyone who bought a bryston product in the last 20 years after e-mailing/mailing them that review. Next would be "movie night" in the store with an auro 3D demo coupled with a trade in/discount policy for customers who upgrade.

Regardless how you view Datasat and Trinnov they both have products more capable then the Storm/Bryston units with respect to internal processing but yes you are most likely correct in terms of brand recognition, more people are probably familiar with the name Bryston then Datasat or Trinnov but the problem is even Bryston is in a niche market (high-end audio) and a lot of people to this day only associate the company with pro gear which is unfortunate.

As for dealers, I would be willing to bet that a good majority of them don' have a clue these Bryston units are limited to 48/24 internally, or even care and are more concerned with hitting over potential customers heads oh yeah it'll accept up to 192/24 which is true but with a huge caveat that they don't understand or for those that know the true workings of the units care to divulge to a potential customer and risk blowing a sale.

Gbaby is also right about the overwhelmingly vast majority of Bryston users, they have 2 channel setups just based on the simple fact up until the SP4 came out there was only a single SSP, the SP3 and it would only appeal to a very select group of home theater enthusiasts, those that didn't need the latest tech but did offer multi-channel while not at the expense of the source content.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Mar 2019, 03:54 pm
Regardless how you view Datasat and Trinnov they both have products more capable then the Storm/Bryston units with respect to internal processing but yes you are most likely correct in terms of brand recognition, more people are probably familiar with the name Bryston then Datasat or Trinnov but the problem is even Bryston is in a niche market (high-end audio) and a lot of people to this day only associate the company with pro gear which is unfortunate.

As for dealers, I would be willing to bet that a good majority of them don' have a clue these Bryston units are limited to 48/24 internally, or even care and are more concerned with hitting over potential customers heads oh yeah it'll accept up to 192/24 which is true but with a huge caveat that they don't understand or for those that know the true workings of the units care to divulge to a potential customer and risk blowing a sale.

Gbaby is also right about the overwhelmingly vast majority of Bryston users, they have 2 channel setups just based on the simple fact up until the SP4 came out there was only a single SSP, the SP3 and it would only appeal to a very select group of home theater enthusiasts, those that didn't need the latest tech but did offer multi-channel while not at the expense of the source content.

I don't know which of those products are most capable. I do know that the SP4 won best of show in that category at the Bristol show so let's assume it is capable enough. As for Gbaby the SP4 isn't aimed at the two channel market.
Question- have you auditioned any of these units are you just comparing specs?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Mar 2019, 04:32 pm
Does anyone in this thread even own an SP4?  :scratch:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 14 Mar 2019, 04:35 pm
I do  :thumb:

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Mar 2019, 04:39 pm
I don't know which of those products are most capable. I do know that the SP4 won best of show in that category at the Bristol show so let's assume it is capable enough. As for Gbaby the SP4 isn't aimed at the two channel market.
Question- have you auditioned any of these units are you just comparing specs?

There's simply no way of comparing the units side by side unless doing so via specs. These products just aren't something a single dealership would ever carry all of, at least not in my neck of the woods.

Where I live even though I have Bryston and Trinnov dealership, given the cost of the units no one ever stocks these. It was just as bad when I was looking to get the big 28B-SST2's, due to the price they were special order only. Not much of a risk there as I owned at the time two 4B-SST's and a 6B-SST so I knew how the performance would be. Heck it was the same situation for my 7B-SST's as well.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 14 Mar 2019, 04:57 pm
Does anyone in this thread even own an SP4?  :scratch:


fedex has mine (incoming) at the moment...
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Mar 2019, 04:58 pm

fedex has mine at the moment...

Congrats!

How many channels are you running?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 14 Mar 2019, 05:00 pm
Congrats!

How many channels are you running?


right now it’s a 7.1.4 but when some free time opens up plan to go up to 9.1.4
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Mar 2019, 05:03 pm
Nice.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Mar 2019, 07:04 pm
I do  :thumb:

james

I thought you were old school?? What type of setup are you running? pics?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Mar 2019, 07:05 pm

right now it’s a 7.1.4 but when some free time opens up plan to go up to 9.1.4

Rooster19, the VOG channel is ESSENTIAL IMO.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 14 Mar 2019, 07:24 pm
I thought you were old school?? What type of setup are you running? pics?

HI,

7.2 at this point.

i have 3 sound rooms at home.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 14 Mar 2019, 09:35 pm
Rooster19, the VOG channel is ESSENTIAL IMO.

Unfortunately due to WAF the VOG speaker is out of the question.

But fedex came this afternoon. The SP4 looks like it arrived safe and sound. However we're off to spring break saturday so can't give it a run for a while.

(https://i.ibb.co/gjdWJYS/IMG-3478.jpg)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 14 Mar 2019, 09:49 pm
Hi Rooster

Looking forward to your feedback.   

James
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Mar 2019, 12:33 am
Gbaby if the SP3 floats your boat by all means go for it. I have not auditioned the SP4 so can't speak to it's two channel capabilities. If you haven't auditioned one either I suggest you don't have a clue to its capabilities, movies, music, or in between :)

You still don't get it, but since this is an SP4 thread, I'll let it slide.  :wink:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 15 Mar 2019, 12:44 am
(https://i.ibb.co/gjdWJYS/IMG-3478.jpg)

So sexy! If only it was 96/24 capable  :(
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Mar 2019, 04:15 am
HI,

7.2 at this point.

i have 3 sound rooms at home.

james

Having a 16 channel processor and only using 7 is like having a Ferrari and never taking it above second gear. You need to open that bad boy up. Get some TOW's or mini A's mounted high on the walls and let us know what you think please. Read that SP4 review again regarding auromatic, I strongly recommend getting an Auro 3D layout. Atmos sounds fine with an Auro setup, no worries.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Mar 2019, 04:16 am
Unfortunately due to WAF the VOG speaker is out of the question.

But fedex came this afternoon. The SP4 looks like it arrived safe and sound. However we're off to spring break saturday so can't give it a run for a while.

(https://i.ibb.co/gjdWJYS/IMG-3478.jpg)

Stunning, are you getting it more for music, movies or both?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 15 Mar 2019, 11:44 am
We’re 100% movies/tv.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Mar 2019, 01:09 pm
We’re 100% movies/tv.

Great, if you do an Atmos setup you will need 4 speakers in the ceiling (LOL with WAF).
The upfiring speakers are basically a last resort IMO.

What type of speakers are you planning for height channels? Check out this setup guide from Storm Audio's website:

https://www.stormaudio.com/media/auro3d_home_theater_setup_guidelines_v8_20170531__049790400_1458_13062017.pdf
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 15 Mar 2019, 01:22 pm
I’ve already got the 7.1.4 in. It’s a Revel/JTR/JBl setup. I’ve been using a Marantz 8805, but wanted to try a datasat/storm/trinnov unit, so here we are!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Mar 2019, 02:00 pm
I’ve already got the 7.1.4 in. It’s a Revel/JTR/JBl setup. I’ve been using a Marantz 8805, but wanted to try a datasat/storm/trinnov unit, so here we are!

WOW!! My hat is off to you, what do you have for bed channels? Height channels?
I use a Marantz processor in my media room and JBL speakers in the man cave.

 
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 15 Mar 2019, 02:56 pm
here’s a few pics of my current setup

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-what-s-your-system-configuration/1526916-my-revel-atmos-living-room.html#post24596886
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Mar 2019, 03:32 pm
here’s a few pics of my current setup

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-what-s-your-system-configuration/1526916-my-revel-atmos-living-room.html#post24596886

Sweet, I look forward to your comparison. How do you like the Studio 2 ceiling speakers? I am using the Studio 230's, Studio 225C and 210's in the man cave as bed channels. I want to try the JBL Control Now as height channels but can opt for in ceiling as the basement has ceiling tiles for an easy install.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images500x500/JBL_CONTROLNOWBK_Control_NOW_AW_583062.jpg
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 17 Mar 2019, 04:15 pm
HI,

7.2 at this point.

i have 3 sound rooms at home.

james

Have you checked these out? I'll bet Axiom would be a good match for your Bryston speakers:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/m3-in-ceiling-speakers

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 17 Mar 2019, 04:42 pm
Have you checked these out? I'll bet Axiom would be a good match for your Bryston speakers:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/m3-in-ceiling-speakers

Hi

Yes we have our own Bryston version of this ceiling speaker but I wanted to compare the SP-4 - 7.1 system because it is what I am use to.

james

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 26 Mar 2019, 04:40 pm
Unfortunately due to WAF the VOG speaker is out of the question.

But fedex came this afternoon. The SP4 looks like it arrived safe and sound. However we're off to spring break saturday so can't give it a run for a while.

(https://i.ibb.co/gjdWJYS/IMG-3478.jpg)

Rooster19, did you get a chance to fire it up yet? How was the installation process?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 26 Mar 2019, 05:02 pm
What's the ETA on 2-ch bypass for the SP4?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 26 Mar 2019, 08:50 pm
What's the ETA on 2-ch bypass for the SP4?

I would say at least a year.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 27 Mar 2019, 06:48 pm
Kinda SP4 related... any ETA on the 9B3?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 27 Mar 2019, 07:08 pm
Kinda SP4 related... any ETA on the 9B3?

Yes building 9B Cubes now.

James
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 28 Mar 2019, 05:02 am
Woohoo!

What are the final specs for power (if you can release that yet?).
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 28 Mar 2019, 10:47 am
Woohoo!

What are the final specs for power (if you can release that yet?).

The power has been increased to 200 watts per channel from 150.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 28 Mar 2019, 05:17 pm
At 8 ohms?
What does it go to at 4 ohms? 300 wpc?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 28 Mar 2019, 05:41 pm
At 8 ohms?
What does it go to at 4 ohms? 300 wpc?

Yes 300 plus.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rooster19 on 28 Mar 2019, 08:18 pm
Rooster19, did you get a chance to fire it up yet? How was the installation process?

not yet. Working on getting my URC remote to work with it first so the family doesn’t get angry if i put in something they can’t yse
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: alexone on 8 Apr 2019, 10:51 am

...cool! new 9B³ :thumb:

any (topless) pics for us, James :drool: :drool:

al.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 27 Apr 2019, 09:57 pm
Hi Folks,

A video on how to set up an Bryston SP-4

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F2GE4yJ4%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2SbfrXLlDlcV-0fSZ1KNTdzC_um2HURnk2jnquuN0oJTb8TWSyeCT6Io4&h=AT3IR19c5m_m-YWE1jfBXXveF0WigEQ37hFZpRaSDt4mAAJ_o0EGz0D3Y-Xz8Bjbblb1ZmoKJdP1NrCwyXLBqRao-dfk6OAn5xKAS5039AfuSgsQEx7HO5AvSsMr9miMjIfUguR8JiTyQxniiTM66Zuj0XjT5VwT_htqyQT4-PBZMn7snM8t_aAYfl0_EJar7OGErs4-TD83_donoc9anheTOC85Dn_ilMb1FE7imET8rwirQuu5_axXIuMkquIxVjOZQENrRnf4Z3bJBK3Qf1_VKO2qwbeJy4a8qZJYrkBp2_0iPV_NYHvgCNumG3OgFL1-x7dpvuzjZ_COnL_gHw2vCXWPjzSOhqLs12l5G3MwnqpCrGeP0awEJWA3ePTgehijOf9hTIzkUtTMWQbCd9WRIyddMRnI48HEViD9JVk63tLMU-UNVVCybnJBSYdPTffapiIKSRJwf6HelVLDwco8Dgtf2RvUd37CJvxFNcYCLsIc2naWB8HnMxcJWK4uRS6Pahl3S_xGF4tyKZJU4NZTEmz0Nz4riAlLMFInSiz5g-Ka39zvnVTFItJ5LO9YqYY2WXcBdJjsBIp_9WAAULc3kfI6baHiuK2gzzy1d_8dkwD-LfFAP0DY5H-giIi2up2w

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 30 Apr 2019, 03:05 pm
not yet. Working on getting my URC remote to work with it first so the family doesn’t get angry if i put in something they can’t yse

Any updates on the SP4 yet?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 24 May 2019, 10:56 pm
Hi Luigi

No I am sorry it can not be smaller as we need the depth because we are using a 3U chassis size whereas the StormAudio unit is a 4U.

james

New potential SP4 customer here  :)
My biggest problem with the increased depth due to 3U size is whether the front feets of the unit will extend beyond the rack-shelf or not. I need a drawing w/dimensions showing the placement of those feets to determine this. One remedy may be to remove the feets (if possible) and put the unit on suited isolation pads supporting the weight of the unit.

Please advice.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 24 May 2019, 11:44 pm
Hi Extreman

I will check with engineering for you.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 25 May 2019, 12:06 am
Thank you.
My configuration is 7.1.2.
What I can’t see from the manual is how to tell the system that my Atmos heights are top middle and not top front or top rear. Will top middle be matrix-generated?
Also, can you confirm that the Master volume extends to +12dB gain.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 27 May 2019, 10:46 am
not yet. Working on getting my URC remote to work with it first so the family doesn’t get angry if i put in something they can’t yse

Rooster19 any comments yet? Did you keep the unit or sell it?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 27 Jun 2019, 11:54 am
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195971)

MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: KL International Show in Malaysia

Hi James,

At this year’s KL International AV Show (26-28 July) we will be showcasing the Bryston SP4 at the heart of our home theatre demo.

Setting a new standard for audio quality, the SP4 is a true 15.1 channel discrete unit that is compatible with object-based surround formats (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Auro-3D). Developed in partnership with Immersive Audio Technologies, this new processor is at the helm of high quality home theaters built for home cinema enthusiasts.

For those who demand master quality performance and lifelike audio rendition, the Bryston SP4 delivers an immersive experience.

While the ‘Dirac Live Room Correction Suite™’ is an optional add-on, it is activated in our demo unit to provide an even higher level of audio calibration.

Come experience the latest in immersive surround sound at our room (MR 7) at this year’s AV Show.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 27 Jun 2019, 12:11 pm
It's great to see all of the accolades but I have to wonder about the reviewers. For those who rave about the audio fidelity are they only listening to the audio in movies and then trying to compare that to Atmos equipped receivers or are they actually listening to music?? If listening to music are they then only listening to CD's? I ask because I know this unit is only capable of 24/48 internal audio so anyone commenting on the units audio prowess of high res music is not very knowledgeable about the unit's shortcoming thus in turn if they are feeding it a 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4 or 24/192 music file they are not hearing that back. They are hearing the result of it being down sampled to 24/48 then upsampled back up to the resolution of the DAC.

Storm and Bryston would have a SSP killer on their hands at these prices if the unit was truly high res capable (24/192) on all channels. I keep hoping and holding off on a replacement for my SSP that Storm and Bryston will upgrade the unit to the audio standards it deserves to be running at. Pretty please, can you update  :green:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 27 Jun 2019, 02:53 pm
Rod-S your request certainly seems reasonable for a SOA unit. Why would they drop $$$ licensing Dirac but skimp on the dac??

In all fairness most listeners could probably not tell the difference in a blind listening test but it would make sense from at least a marketing point of view.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 27 Jun 2019, 07:08 pm
Yeah that's definitely a valid point about most people not really being able to tell teh difference.

It's not the DAC's that are lacking, those are at least 24/192 it's the internal processing that's the bottle neck i.e. matrix processing, Dirac, etc. the SP4's direct competition all have 24/96 with the Trinnov Altitude32 being the exception at 24/192 on I believe 24 channels and 24/96 on 32 channels. That means both the Theta Casablanca and Datasat LS10 which both are DSP based SSP's like the Bryston (vs PC Intel chips) are both able to achieve 24/92 and both the Datasat and Theta have Dirac like the Bryston.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: brucek on 27 Jun 2019, 08:12 pm
I would have to think that Bryston is targeting an audience for this product that isn't interested in these details.

Seriously, most, if not all (myself included), couldn't tell  the difference between a 24/48 and a 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4 or 24/192 music file. A lot of factors have to be just right before this is actually significant. In reality, it's comes down to a marketing number. This unit has a higher sample rate than this other unit, so it must be better? Bryston seems to have decided the majority that would want this unit couldn't care, since it's not first and foremost a music processor. It's for theater and 48K sample rate is fine.

The web site tells us, this product is targeted at "high quality home theaters built for home cinema enthusiasts" and not for its music prowess.

Personally, I think Bryston made somewhat of a mistake in their naming of this unit. When you sell a unit called SP3 and then you release an SP4 model, this screams "upgrade path". Anyone with an SP3 decides their unit must be obsolete and it's time to look at the SP4. That just isn't the case if you look at the specifications. They're a different product.

Why did they not name the SP4 something like SP-HT?

brucek
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 27 Jun 2019, 11:24 pm
Hi Folks,

Yes the SP4 is directed towards quality home theater and we will eventually offer upgrades to the DAC and analog sections etc. going forward as the guts are all modular in design and can be swapped and updated as we go.

Fortunately the SP4 is selling beyond our ability to make them so from the sales side it has been a big success recognizing as some have suggested that these customers are prioritizing the features and performance available for state of the art movie playback which is all recorded at 48K.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 28 Jun 2019, 02:21 pm
That's great James, I wish more owners would post reviews in this thread.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 29 Jun 2019, 11:12 pm
Hi Folks,

Fortunately the SP4 is selling beyond our ability to make them so from the sales side it has been a big success recognizing as some have suggested that these customers are prioritizing the features and performance available for state of the art movie playback which is all recorded at 48K.

james

Will the SP4 play 44.1/16 PCM at that sampling rate or will it up convert it to 48k?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 29 Jun 2019, 11:38 pm
It plays it a 44.1

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 30 Jun 2019, 09:16 pm
Re: dacs and processors I think it is a non issue from my perspective. I buy a processor for the music/movie features I want to make a room sound/look great. Those features are immersive sound and room correction. Let's face it, codecs and dacs are upgraded in the industry every 3 years (or sooner). If I want to upgrade every 3 years I wouldn't buy a processor, I would buy a receiver. When I get the "upgrade" itch for the room my processor is in for a dac/streamer I would go external and connect via RCA. It is a HELL of a lot easier swapping out external DAC's than processors. My processor streams Spotify NP. I did notice a boost in SQ when I added a Bluesound Node. After 2 years I swapped the Node for a Klipsch Gate for another boost (the $30 Gate sounds better to my ears than a $500 Node but that's another story). I have my eye on a Mcintosh MB 50 and maybe that will be next.
So, my advice is if you are looking for a SOA processor just grab ab SP4 and ask the dealer for some flexibility if you add an outboard DAC on a possible future purchase.

BTW, it is the same rule of thumb for video. If I want 8K or whatever in the future I would buy a player with two HDMI outs so I can connect audio to the processor and video straight to the display.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 1 Jul 2019, 03:25 pm
It plays it a 44.1

james

Well as far as I'm concerned, there should be no problem using the SP4 for music as 99.9% of digital music is encoded at PCM 44.1/16.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 1 Jul 2019, 04:02 pm
Re: dacs and processors I think it is a non issue from my perspective. I buy a processor for the music/movie features I want to make a room sound/look great. Those features are immersive sound and room correction. Let's face it, codecs and dacs are upgraded in the industry every 3 years (or sooner). If I want to upgrade every 3 years I wouldn't buy a processor, I would buy a receiver. When I get the "upgrade" itch for the room my processor is in for a dac/streamer I would go external and connect via RCA. It is a HELL of a lot easier swapping out external DAC's than processors. My processor streams Spotify NP. I did notice a boost in SQ when I added a Bluesound Node. After 2 years I swapped the Node for a Klipsch Gate for another boost (the $30 Gate sounds better to my ears than a $500 Node but that's another story). I have my eye on a Mcintosh MB 50 and maybe that will be next.
So, my advice is if you are looking for a SOA processor just grab ab SP4 and ask the dealer for some flexibility if you add an outboard DAC on a possible future purchase.

BTW, it is the same rule of thumb for video. If I want 8K or whatever in the future I would buy a player with two HDMI outs so I can connect audio to the processor and video straight to the display.

It's not the DAC's that are downgrading the resolution, it's the internal processing and a user can not compensate for that by connecting external hardware either before or after and still expect Dirac, matrix processing, etc. to run native at higher than 24/48, it will always run at 24/48 max. The only way of updating that is possibly via firmware however I suspect its an internal hardware limitation so in order for Storm and Bryston to upgrade in the future to get at least 96/24 for all channels is to send the unit back for a board replacement.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 1 Jul 2019, 05:34 pm
Well as far as I'm concerned, there should be no problem using the SP4 for music as 99.9% of digital music is encoded at PCM 44.1/16.

Your 99.9% infers "just about everything" and that is not true.

People who can spend over $10k on a processor are likely buying new versions of digital music at high resolutions and that is not at 44.1/16.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 1 Jul 2019, 06:23 pm
Your 99.9% infers "just about everything" and that is not true.

People who can spend over $10k on a processor are likely buying new versions of digital music at high resolutions and that is not at 44.1/16.

Well then you give a percentage. The point is, most CDs and recordings are PCM 44.1/16. And, James Tanner has been telling us the quality of sound depends on the original recording not a codec, and he was raked over the coals for his position.  :o

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 1 Jul 2019, 09:15 pm

People who can spend over $10k on a processor are likely buying new versions of digital music at high resolutions and that is not at 44.1/16.

I own a 10k processor, the Bryston SP3, and I own a 3.5k D/A converter, the BDA-3 that does DSD and all that, but 99.9% of the time, I listen to and prefer plain old PCM 44.1/16. I own too many hi res disc and downloads to continue to be enamored with codecs. I've learned my lesson. Thank you James Tanner.  :oops:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Jul 2019, 03:38 am
It's not the DAC's that are downgrading the resolution, it's the internal processing and a user can not compensate for that by connecting external hardware either before or after and still expect Dirac, matrix processing, etc. to run native at higher than 24/48, it will always run at 24/48 max. The only way of updating that is possibly via firmware however I suspect its an internal hardware limitation so in order for Storm and Bryston to upgrade in the future to get at least 96/24 for all channels is to send the unit back for a board replacement.

Hmmm, I guess the devil is in the details, thanks Rod_S
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 2 Jul 2019, 11:15 am
No worries, I just want to make sure people know the distinction as I see most people assume it's the DAC's as that's what marketing always touts when throwing resolution numbers at consumers but those run up to at least 24/192 and frankly most DAC's nowadays do this anyways, even cheap DAC's.

What is seldom talked about as companies tend to be less forthcoming is internal processing which is a very important figure because really that's what everything coming into the unit is going to be subject to unless the unit sports a bypass. I just feel corners were cut because a $10k+ SSP should not be using hardware that limits to 24/48 and people can make all of the excuses they want about it being a SSP designed for movies and movies are predominately 24/48, fair enough but the price of a 24/48 unit should be reflected accordingly at below $10k, particularly what I assume is it's most common configuration at 16 channels.  It still remains to be seen at what internal resolution Emotiva's new SSP is running at because that unit is what, $5k US?? and implements Dirac just like the Storm/Bryston. It's not as expandable as the Storm/Bryston (i.e. channel count) because it's capped at 16 channels I believe like the Datasat LS10, Theta Casablanca IVa and Trinnov Altitude16 but those latter 3 all run internally at 24/96 and are $10k+ units.

Again this is simply all my opinion and frankly my only gripe with the unit because all else considered Storm and Bryston should be commended for being able to bring a SSP capable of 32 channels (I think when fully upgraded) and doing so using DSP's and not PC hardware.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Jul 2019, 11:32 am
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196125)

MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston Home Theater in the Hamptons

 July, 2019

Hi James,

New York in the Hamptons beachfront mansion!

The house is 33,000 sq. feet on 20 acres, overlooking the Atlantic Ocean.

 Theatre is 25 x 19 x 10 feet with three rows of seating.

•   Bryston SP-4 Processor for the main theatre.

•   Bryston SP-3 Processor for second 6.1 theatre.

•   Commercial grade video wall.

•   Six Bryston 2.5B Cubed amplifiers, plus two Bryston 3B Cubed Amplifiers.

The speakers never, ever sounded so good!

Wayne
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 2 Jul 2019, 11:46 am
Well then you give a percentage. The point is, most CDs and recordings are PCM 44.1/16. And, James Tanner has been telling us the quality of sound depends on the original recording not a codec, and he was raked over the coals for his position.  :o

Most recordings are analog, not digital.  When CDs first appeared they were transferred at 48/16 or 44.1/16.  With the advances of technology the majority of new transfers are being done at higher resolutions.  HDtracks as well as many other companies are making a lot of money off of hires audio.

New digital recordings are being done at 24/192 or DSD, not 16/44.1.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Jul 2019, 02:57 pm
Most recordings are analog, not digital.  When CDs first appeared they were transferred at 48/16 or 44.1/16.  With the advances of technology the majority of new transfers are being done at higher resolutions.  HDtracks as well as many other companies are making a lot of money off of hires audio.

New digital recordings are being done at 24/192 or DSD, not 16/44.1.

A LOT of money? I think they are in a life or death battle with Spotify aren't they?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 2 Jul 2019, 03:03 pm
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196125)

MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston Home Theater in the Hamptons

 July, 2019

Hi James,

New York in the Hamptons beachfront mansion!

The house is 33,000 sq. feet on 20 acres, overlooking the Atlantic Ocean.

 Theatre is 25 x 19 x 10 feet with three rows of seating.

•   Bryston SP-4 Processor for the main theatre.

•   Bryston SP-3 Processor for second 6.1 theatre.

•   Commercial grade video wall.

•   Six Bryston 2.5B Cubed amplifiers, plus two Bryston 3B Cubed Amplifiers.

The speakers never, ever sounded so good!

Wayne


Hmmmm, I need to get one of these for my mansion  8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 2 Jul 2019, 03:53 pm
A LOT of money? I think they are in a life or death battle with Spotify aren't they?

Different markets.  My guess is that people buying hi res downloads are not going to depend on low res streaming services like Spotify.  If anything they would consider Qobuz or Tidal.

However, streaming and buying are 2 different things.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 2 Jul 2019, 05:13 pm
Most recordings are analog, not digital.

Elementary dear Watson.  :D The only reason I made the inquiry on whether or not the SP4 played 44.1/16 natively is for me to make a determination if it was suitable for red book CD playback, and it is. I own a bunch of hi res downloads and SACDs from both HDTracks and Acoustic Sounds. None sound better than a well mastered PCM 44.1/16 disc or file. This is just my personal observation. To me, hi res sounds different, maybe even louder than rebook, however, not necessarily better. But, there is an inaccuracy in the sound that I just can't define.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 2 Jul 2019, 05:52 pm
Yeah differences in the levels of recording is very dangerous when doing comparisons because we tend to think we like the louder one but that does not mean it's the better recording/mixing/mastering. A lot of the poorly done high res material is louder (it's an alarming trend today even at CD resolution) which people think is better but if you start to factor that out and do as best as possible to level match the differences are much harder to detect but there.

A very well recorded and mixed album, when done right and released at different resolutions, the higher resolution tends to have more depth, or air in the recording giving an overall larger presentation. I find the highs more natural but these are things that don't immediately stand out and in most cases if not done under critical listening conditions you would never know otherwise which is why it's understandable that the whole high res thing just isn't worth it to a lot of people because it's not an immediate oh wow like say a hardware upgrade such as a new pair of speakers, etc. can be not to mention the incredible inconsistency with high res releases.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 2 Jul 2019, 07:13 pm
Yeah differences in the levels of recording is very dangerous when doing comparisons because we tend to think we like the louder one but that does not mean it's the better recording/mixing/mastering. A lot of the poorly done high res material is louder (it's an alarming trend today even at CD resolution) which people think is better but if you start to factor that out and do as best as possible to level match the differences are much harder to detect but there.

A very well recorded and mixed album, when done right and released at different resolutions, the higher resolution tends to have more depth, or air in the recording giving an overall larger presentation. I find the highs more natural but these are things that don't immediately stand out and in most cases if not done under critical listening conditions you would never know otherwise which is why it's understandable that the whole high res thing just isn't worth it to a lot of people because it's not an immediate oh wow like say a hardware upgrade such as a new pair of speakers, etc. can be not to mention the incredible inconsistency with high res releases.

A well recorded 5.1 SACD is about the only hi res I find enjoyable, but even that is most likely a disc of a genre that I have no interest. Therefore, well recorded red book CD is fine with me as long as I am playing it as an imported .aiff file on my BDP-3. :)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: brucek on 2 Jul 2019, 08:28 pm
Quote from: gbaby
I own a bunch of hi res downloads and SACDs from both HDTracks and Acoustic Sounds. None sound better than a well mastered PCM 44.1/16 disc or file. This is just my personal observation. To me, hi res sounds different, maybe even louder than rebook, however, not necessarily better. But, there is an inaccuracy in the sound that I just can't define.

Yeah, technology continues to get better, but human hearing is fixed, so the 44.1Khz sampling is all that's necessary as it offers a bandwidth of about 20Khz. If you play with the Nyquist formula it includes guard bands and lock possibilities, but ends up about 20Khz. I know I can't hear that high, and not many can. No reason to sample any higher as far as I can see. You also have to consider that higher bandwidth systems can pass signals that may exist above 20 Khz (noise from switch-mode power amplifiers, etc). There's no sensible reason to pass this information to the digital signal.

When you consider the bits, a true 16 bits is quite hard to achieve. Everything has to be perfect. The theoretical noise floor for an A/D converter is fixed and a function of its bit resolution. A 16 bit A/D converter is 98 dB, and a 24 bit is 147 dB.
Regardless of the input amplitudes to an A/D convertor, the LSB and many bits above that reside in the region of thermal noise that the resistors around the A/D are generating, so most of those bits are lost in the noise, and that's with a pristine analog recording (which is a huge factor in this equation).  So a 24 bit converter is 24 bits in name only, and they'll be lucky to get 16 bits out of it.

So anything more than 44.1K sampling is beyond human hearing, and anything beyond 16 bits is sacrificed to the noise floor.

The fact that you tell us that: "None sound better than a well mastered PCM 44.1/16 disc or file" tells us that you are a critical and honest listener and not persuaded by the hype.

brucek
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 2 Jul 2019, 08:54 pm

The fact that you tell us that: "None sound better than a well mastered PCM 44.1/16 disc or file" tells us that you are a critical and honest listener and not persuaded by the hype.

brucek

Thank you Brucek. I am a critical listener with neutral speakers and hopefully neutral electronics all by Bryston except for my Krell 5 channel amp. And yes, after experimentation with all kinds of hi res at my own expense, I had to trust my ears. :D I appreciate your saying that I am an honest listener. I have found folks don't appreciate candor, but I don't know of any other way to be. Long live natural sound 44.1/16 PCM. 8) It has taken me years to reach this conclusion which James Tanner tried to explain for years. His candor got him criticized, but I have enough discernment to understand his position. I have quit chasing codecs.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 2 Jul 2019, 08:57 pm

So anything more than 44.1K sampling is beyond human hearing, and anything beyond 16 bits is sacrificed to the noise floor.

The fact that you tell us that: "None sound better than a well mastered PCM 44.1/16 disc or file" tells us that you are a critical and honest listener and not persuaded by the hype.

brucek

So all the studios mastering, editing, and releasing at 192/24 are wasting their time?  They would disagree with you.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 2 Jul 2019, 09:04 pm
So all the studios mastering, editing, and releasing at 192/24 are wasting their time?  They would disagree with you.

That is done so there is no sound degradation during the editing process. But, the end result is 44.1/16.  :nono:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 2 Jul 2019, 09:07 pm
That is done so there is no sound degradation during the editing process. But, the end result is 44.1/16.  :nono:

The end result is not always 44.1/16.

I am glad you prefer that but realize that is your personal preference and not an absolute truth.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 2 Jul 2019, 09:14 pm
You guys can't have it both ways, you can't praise James for the 44.1/16 bit logic while at the same time having no issue with Bryston then using 24/192 and above DACs. The BDA-3 by the way is 32/384 capable so according to brucek's logic that's mostly garbage and people are wasting their money on the unit if the ideal human resolvable resolution is more or less reached via a 16/44.1 DAC. So if Bryston was doing right by the consumer they would only be including DAC's capable of 16/44.1 and if none exist then they should be creating them themselves for use in their own products.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: brucek on 2 Jul 2019, 09:35 pm
... so according to brucek's logic.....

hehe, well it's hardly my logic. It's simply the standard, well understood, engineering mathematics of audio and the limitations of human hearing.

Do you have math that refutes it?

brucek
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 2 Jul 2019, 09:54 pm
hehe, well it's hardly my logic. It's simply the standard, well understood, engineering mathematics of audio and the limitations of human hearing.

Do you have math that refutes it?

brucek

I trust my ears more than the math.  Our brains can decipher things that may not simply show up in a formula.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 2 Jul 2019, 10:22 pm
hehe, well it's hardly my logic. It's simply the standard, well understood, engineering mathematics of audio and the limitations of human hearing.

Do you have math that refutes it?

brucek

:) I'm not refuting the math or taking a jab at you in case it came across that way, I'm not. I'm just saying if a company is supposedly making products to accommodate the real limitations of human hearing then they shouldn't also be touting 32/384 DAC's and audio players :) The stance should be such nonsense is a waste of money and we as a company will not stoop to the marketing hyperbole spewed by other companies to attract customers because any consumer who believes in such nonsense is not our target audience so please look elsewhere if you want to waste your hard earned dollars  :green:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Jul 2019, 10:43 pm
Hi Folks

If we built DACs limited to 44.1 we would never sell a DAC. Realities of the market place.

James
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: brucek on 2 Jul 2019, 10:53 pm
I'm just saying if a company is supposedly making products to accommodate the real limitations of human hearing then they shouldn't also be touting 32/384 DAC's and audio players :) The stance should be such nonsense is a waste of money and we as a company will not stoop to the marketing hyperbole spewed by other companies to attract customers because any consumer who believes in such nonsense is not our target audience so please look elsewhere if you want to waste your hard earned dollars  :green:

Rod_S, your faith in audio companies is laudable. I'm afraid I can't completely agree, since I do read the blurbs on many audio accessory company sites and their information is complete baloney. Companies that offer after market power cords comes to mind. It's complete nonsense, and so their goal is obviously profit, since these cords add nothing to the audio signal. They do look nice though, so you're not completely wasting your money.

Seriously, if one company offers a higher bit rate on a product, the next company is required to follow if they want to stay in business. Don't believe everything these companies tell you. Do some research and make up your mind.

brucek
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 2 Jul 2019, 11:47 pm
The end result is not always 44.1/16.


It is red book for which I am referring to. I buy a great deal of CDs and import them all. They are cheap and sound great. I am buying all the 5 Classic rock CDs and recently purchased a 5 CD jazz CD set of Freddie Hubbard on Bluenote. The sound is excellent. I am never wanting to listen to hi res and I own a great deal of it. I think its my equipment.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 3 Jul 2019, 12:00 am
You guys can't have it both ways, you can't praise James for the 44.1/16 bit logic while at the same time having no issue with Bryston then using 24/192 and above DACs. The BDA-3 by the way is 32/384 capable so according to brucek's logic that's mostly garbage and people are wasting their money on the unit if the ideal human resolvable resolution is more or less reached via a 16/44.1 DAC. So if Bryston was doing right by the consumer they would only be including DAC's capable of 16/44.1 and if none exist then they should be creating them themselves for use in their own products.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with praising James for educating us (me in particular) how great regular red book (44.1/16) can sound on properly built electronics and also building units capable of playing 32/384 to accommodate numbers freaks. He was trying to tell us that high sampling rates are not the Holy Grail, and the master recording quality, the  analog section, power supply and other things affect good sound. I don't think you get it. You would have to read some of the older comments on DSD and the like for the SP3. In any event, it took me. while, but now, I get it.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 3 Jul 2019, 12:01 am
It is for red book which is what I am referring to. I buy a great deal of CDs and import them all. They are cheap and sound great. I am buying all the 5 Classic rock CDs and recently purchased a 5 CD jazz CD set of Freddie Hubbard on Bluenote. The sound is excellent. I am never wanting to listen to hi res and I own a great deal of it. I think its my equipment.

I didn’t realize you were referring to CDs.

Digital makes up about 5% of my listening. I listen to reel to reel and vinyl.  I don’t find digital music emotionally engaging as compared to analog.  YMMB.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: dminches on 3 Jul 2019, 12:07 am
There is absolutely nothing wrong with praising James for educating us (me in particular) how great regular red book (44.1/16) can sound on properly built electronics and also building units capable of playing 32/384 to accommodate numbers freaks. He was trying to tell us that high sampling rates are not the Holy Grail, and the master recording quality, the  analog section, power supply and other things affect good sound. I don't think you get it. You would have to read some of the older comments on DSD and the like for the SP3. In any event, it took me. while, but now, I get it.

I don’t think anyone is saying the digital resolution is the holy grail.  However, you are changing the discussion a bit.  Earlier you were basically saying that there is no need for high resolution digital, that red book was as good as it gets.  Correct me if I am wrong in saying that.

Now you are introducing other aspects of a recording what affect the final sound.  No one is arguing that point.  Clearly it all starts with the initial recording.  That’s not what we are talking about.  We are talking about difference in the final “product” whether it be red book or hi res.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 3 Jul 2019, 12:22 am
I didn’t realize you were referring to CDs.

I listen to reel to reel and vinyl.  I don’t find digital music emotionally engaging as compared to analog.  YMMB.

Listening to vinyl and reel to reel is a luxury. :lol: I think digital has reached a point in its technology that it favorable competes with analog especially when you consider cost, convenience and overall sound quality. I can listen to 20 different compositions from different albums while you are playing one vinyl. I can skip whereas you have to fast forward. You have to worry about azimuth adjustments, cartridges, stylus, cleaning records, demagnetizing, cleaning heads, changing belts and a plethora of other issues. This is 2019 and I refuse to put up with what I went through in the '70s.  Analog is just too limiting for me. When I was playing the red book edition of Freddie Hubbard's CD, "Open Sesame,"  from the Bluenote label on the BDA3, it sounded like it was playing on an AR turntable back in the day. There was great imaging, depth and soundstage without the hiss and scratches. Sounds great.  :wink:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 3 Jul 2019, 12:23 am
 Delete
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 3 Jul 2019, 12:28 am
I don’t think anyone is saying the digital resolution is the holy grail.  However, you are changing the discussion a bit.  Earlier you were basically saying that there is no need for high resolution digital, that red book was as good as it gets.  Correct me if I am wrong in saying that.


Just a misinterpretation. But, its not the end of the world. :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 3 Jul 2019, 12:37 am
There is absolutely nothing wrong with praising James for educating us (me in particular) how great regular red book (44.1/16) can sound on properly built electronics and also building units capable of playing 32/384 to accommodate numbers freaks. He was trying to tell us that high sampling rates are not the Holy Grail, and the master recording quality, the  analog section, power supply and other things affect good sound. I don't think you get it. You would have to read some of the older comments on DSD and the like for the SP3. In any event, it took me. while, but now, I get it.

I get what you are saying but again you need to be careful because there was probably no mention of what downsampling or up sampling does to that pure original 16/44.1 signal. For example on the SP4, I believe James mentioned it processes a 44.1/16 signal internally at the native resolution being input (obviously providing it's not above 48/24) however it may well be that when that hits the DACs it's upsampled. I don't know. So if there is anything in your signal chain that is doing any form up or downsampling those are points which can introduce noise, etc. thus you aren't hearing what the source started out as. Also even worse is if you are going from digital to analog to digital a few times in the signal chain. For example if you have a CD player but are using the analog outs, then you go into a SSP and then apply say Dirac or matrix processing then out to the amps. That signal goes through a DAC (CD player out) to ADC (input of SSP) to another DAC (output of SSP). So if using the SP 4 as an example the signal starts out as 44.1/16 becomes analog then gets digitized at 48/24 then back to analog
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 3 Jul 2019, 01:02 am
I trust my ears more than the math.  Our brains can decipher things that may not simply show up in a formula.
''

Believe me, math is more reliable
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 3 Jul 2019, 01:07 am
Listening to vinyl and reel to reel is a luxury. :lol: I think digital has reached a point in its technology that it favorable competes with analog especially when you consider cost, convenience and overall sound quality. I can listen to 20 different compositions from different albums while you are playing one vinyl. I can skip whereas you have to fast forward. You have to worry about azimuth adjustments, cartridges, stylus, cleaning records, demagnetizing, cleaning heads, changing belts and a plethora of other issues. This is 2019 and I refuse to put up with what I went through in the '70s.  Analog is just too limiting for me. When I was playing the red book edition of Freddie Hubbard's CD, "Open Sesame,"  from the Bluenote label on the BDA3, it sounded like it was playing on an AR turntable back in the day. There was great imaging, depth and soundstage without the hiss and scratches. Sounds great.  :wink:

You know gbaby you just hit the nail on the head. A hobbyist reaches a point where any future changes to your system are unimportant. Could it sound better, sure, BUT would that make you any more into the music, no,
This has happened in two of my systems, my HT and my desktop. Sure I could spend more, get more but when it sounds as close to LIVE music as it does now there is just mo point chasing upgrades any more.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 3 Jul 2019, 01:09 am
I didn’t realize you were referring to CDs.

Digital makes up about 5% of my listening. I listen to reel to reel and vinyl.  I don’t find digital music emotionally engaging as compared to analog.  YMMB.

Hmmm,sounds like you are happy too, are you a tube or solid state guy?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 3 Jul 2019, 01:14 am
I don’t think anyone is saying the digital resolution is the holy grail.  However, you are changing the discussion a bit.  Earlier you were basically saying that there is no need for high resolution digital, that red book was as good as it gets.  Correct me if I am wrong in saying that.

Now you are introducing other aspects of a recording what affect the final sound.  No one is arguing that point.  Clearly it all starts with the initial recording.  That’s not what we are talking about.  We are talking about difference in the final “product” whether it be red book or hi res.

The "holy grail" has been found and it works with vinyl, tape, and digital. It is the primary way I listen and if you are reading this thread THIS is why you NEED an SP4. The "Holy Grail" can be mixed natively or upmixed using any source you please:

https://blog.dolby.com/holy-grail-experiencing-pepper-dolby-atmos/


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196144)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 3 Jul 2019, 01:20 am
Trust me, making the leap from stereo to immersive audio is light years beyond making the leap from 44 or 48 bits to whatever hirez format you choose.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 26 Jul 2019, 10:34 pm
Tuned this bad ass theater last night.

ALL Bryston!

SP4 Processor, 9BSST² Amp, Model T Speakers, TC1 Center, Mini Ts Surround.

Rockin!

Gary Dayton


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196975)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 27 Jul 2019, 10:39 pm
Tuned this bad ass theater last night.

ALL Bryston!

SP4 Processor, 9BSST² Amp, Model T Speakers, TC1 Center, Mini Ts Surround.

Rockin!

Gary Dayton


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196975)

Looks delightful, no sub? BRD?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 29 Jul 2019, 05:45 pm
Hi, Mr. Tanner.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197063)

Is 3D speaker mapping something that Storm/Bryston is working to include in the future in their firmware?
It would be very useful in my case. This is part of the Trinnov Optimizer:
https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/conventions/?elib=13091
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 30 Jul 2019, 11:37 am
Hi, Mr. Tanner.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197063)

Is 3D speaker mapping something that Storm/Bryston is working to include in the future in their firmware?
It would be very useful in my case. This is part of the Trinnov Optimizer:
https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/conventions/?elib=13091

Hi

Not sure - will leave this one for Gary to answer.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 31 Jul 2019, 10:08 pm
Hi, Mr. Tanner.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197063)

Is 3D speaker mapping something that Storm/Bryston is working to include in the future in their firmware?
It would be very useful in my case. This is part of the Trinnov Optimizer:
https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/conventions/?elib=13091

Me thinks you ask for too much. :o
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 8 Aug 2019, 10:57 am
‘PMC will be using an Altitude32-1632 and 4x Amplitude8 for their active demonstration in Sound Room 9’
https://www.trinnov.com/2019/08/07/trinnov-at-cedia-expo-2019/

What’s happening - PMC replaces the SP4 and Bryston amps.....(?)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Aug 2019, 12:06 pm
‘PMC will be using an Altitude32-1632 and 4x Amplitude8 for their active demonstration in Sound Room 9’
https://www.trinnov.com/2019/08/07/trinnov-at-cedia-expo-2019/

What’s happening - PMC replaces the SP4 and Bryston amps.....(?)

Probably sharing a booth.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 8 Aug 2019, 07:26 pm
At Munich, Bristol and KLIAV 2019 PMC used the SP4.
Judging from their statement it doesn’t seem like they are just sharing the booth?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 8 Aug 2019, 10:04 pm
At Munich, Bristol and KLIAV 2019 PMC used the SP4.
Judging from their statement it doesn’t seem like they are just sharing the booth?

Hi Extreman,

They are a separate company from ours so they may have decided to go a different way than using Bryston.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 8 Aug 2019, 11:38 pm
Ok, disappointing nevertheless.
I had the impression that this combination was a winner, but once again it seems that Trinnov is preferred at the very top end.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 9 Aug 2019, 03:12 pm
Ok, disappointing nevertheless.
I had the impression that this combination was a winner, but once again it seems that Trinnov is preferred at the very top end.

So you would drop $15K+ on what someone else prefers? Discriminating shopper eh?
Nothing against Trinnov but give me a break $$$$  :roll:
You gotta get with a dealer (or two or three) on this type of purchase first. Let them check out YOUR room, your speakers, your taste anf THEN recommend the component that fits YOU. ALL of these compnents are customozable to the nth degree, why make it more difficult (and costly) than it should be?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 9 Aug 2019, 05:16 pm
I don’t think PMC’s decision had anything to do with the price tag.
In case you haven’t noticed, I already own the SP4 and I am occupied with my products retaining a good reputation.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 9 Aug 2019, 10:00 pm
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: BEST A/V System Malaysia Audio/Video Show 2019

August 2019

KLIAVS 2019: Best of…AV systems

James Tan of AV Designs for his AV demo, the TAD reference-level amps to drive the PMC Fenestrias while Brystons drove the other speakers.

James also used ‘Dirac Live’ equalization in the Bryston SP4 AV processor.

This system was good enough for both stereo listening and AV sensations!

By Lam Seng Fatt

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 11 Aug 2019, 06:02 am
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: BEST A/V System Malaysia Audio/Video Show 2019

August 2019

KLIAVS 2019: Best of…AV systems

James Tan of AV Designs for his AV demo, the TAD reference-level amps to drive the PMC Fenestrias while Brystons drove the other speakers.

--->  :? James also used ‘Dirac Live’ equalization in the Bryston SP4 AV processor.  :?<---

This system was good enough for both stereo listening and AV sensations!

By Lam Seng Fatt


James! Tell him that needs an asterisk for "movies only", right? James??
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 11 Aug 2019, 03:16 pm
I don’t think PMC’s decision had anything to do with the price tag.
In case you haven’t noticed, I already own the SP4 and I am occupied with my products retaining a good reputation.

I wish I owned an SP4, congrats. I doubt a decision by a vendor at a show would impact the resale value or brand equity of Bryston in general of the SP4.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 11 Aug 2019, 06:13 pm
James! Tell him that needs an asterisk for "movies only", right? James??

Hi Grit

As you know I am not a fan of EQ when it comes to speakers that already have excellent polar response but it appears I am in the minority :banghead:

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 12 Aug 2019, 03:21 pm
Hi Grit

As you know I am not a fan of EQ when it comes to speakers that already have excellent polar response but it appears I am in the minority :banghead:

james

No you are not as you made a convert out of me. I understand.  8) :D In fact, I have a new saying that goes like this. You down with speaker EQ; hell no not me.  :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 15 Aug 2019, 05:06 am
Hi Grit

As you know I am not a fan of EQ when it comes to speakers that already have excellent polar response but it appears I am in the minority :banghead:

james

It must be frustrating to have to include a feature others want that you don't personally believe in. For what little it is worth, I'm in your camp James!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 15 Aug 2019, 12:51 pm
It must be frustrating to have to include a feature others want that you don't personally believe in. For what little it is worth, I'm in your camp James!

Hi Grit

It is a little frustrating personally but I think if I explain my position and why at least it puts it out there for discussion. Custom installers would not purchase the SP-4 without it.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Aug 2019, 02:36 pm
In a "pull" system you want to give the customer what they want and how they want it. Think of "pulling" products off the shelf in the supermarket.
In a "push" system you create a product and then go out and try to find customers to "push" it to.

guess which one works better?

BTW James. will you be offering the new HDMI boards announced at CEDIA by Storm?

https://www.stormaudio.com/en/news/453-2019-july-26th-stormaudio-leaps-the-competition-with-implementation-of-channels-most-advanced-hdmi-card.html
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 15 Aug 2019, 03:31 pm
In a "pull" system you want to give the customer what they want and how they want it. Think of "pulling" products off the shelf in the supermarket.
In a "push" system you create a product and then go out and try to find customers to "push" it to.

guess which one works better?

BTW James. will you be offering the new HDMI boards announced at CEDIA by Storm?

https://www.stormaudio.com/en/news/453-2019-july-26th-stormaudio-leaps-the-competition-with-implementation-of-channels-most-advanced-hdmi-card.html

Yes going forward but after much more testing.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 19 Aug 2019, 12:38 am
I seen the Storm announcement but couldn't help but shake my head. Why, where the hell is HDMI 2.1?????? At this point in HDMI's evolution cycle, no new boards being developed should be anything but HDMI 2.1. If you were using off the shelf boards from MDS like you have been doing then you are at their mercy so sure I totally get and understand that because they have a huge lag in getting the newer tech to market. But when developing a board from scratch, in 2019, what gives?

It boggles the mind how LG is the only manufacturer actually implementing true HDMI 2.1 and no one has been able to match that with most manufacturers not even able to offer all 3 of the main HDMI 2.1 features via 2.0b i.e. ALLM, eARC and VRR. All the other manufacturers have been able to cobble together is 2 out of the 3 at most when all 3 are fully capable under 2.0b
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 19 Aug 2019, 06:11 pm
Hi Folks,

From STORM:

James,
No HDMi chip currently supports 2.1, that is as simple as this.
When one does (it will certainly be Panasonic), we will work on an updated board.
Olivier
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 20 Aug 2019, 12:45 pm
That's interesting and not what's available in the broader market. The 2019 LG OLED's are 2.1, with the 48Gbps that comes with the new spec along with features like eARC, ALLM and VRR. Granted those 3 are all available via 2.0b if manufacturers so choose to implement but 48Gbps is exclusively 2.1 which allows for 4k@120 or 8k@60.

The way the response is worded is that Storm isn't doing a ground up implementation but rather still using a 3rd party board as a starting point at least. It's possible LG did their own ground up design which is why they are 1st to market with 2.1. So if indeed the Storm board is not fully proprietary then I'm not seeing the advantage of moving away from MDS to another supplier because wouldn't firmware and/or hardware updates still be at the mercy of the supplier, not Storm?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: NekoAudio on 22 Aug 2019, 04:22 pm
The 2019 LG OLED's are 2.1....
IIRC LG's higher end models typically use custom LG chipsets, even if the chipsets are manufactured by an SoC like MediaTek. Samsung uses their own stuff across the board (I might be remembering that incorrectly) but will still reserve the nicer features for their higher-end models. I don't know if that approach also applies to the HDMI chips, but both companies are leaders in releasing new video technology, especially given their competitive dynamic, with everyone else following. Mid-sized OEMs are going to use off-the-shelf solutions, and the small OEMs are going to use ODMs and just stick their brand on it.

I found this breakdown of the HDMI 2.1 features in 2019 Samsung and LG TVs (https://hdguru.com/hdmi-2-1-features-in-2019-samsung-lg-tvs-clarified/).
Title: Bryston SP4.1?
Post by: mv038856 on 23 Oct 2019, 10:08 am
A question for James about Bryston’s Home Theater product strategy

At CEDIA Expo 2019, Storm Audio announced a new version of their pro/pro lineup.

Since the SP-4 is based on the Storm Audio platform, will there be an updated Bryston SP-4.1 with the new DSP  board?

Thanks

Markus
Title: Re: Bryston SP4.1?
Post by: James Tanner on 23 Oct 2019, 12:05 pm
A question for James about Bryston’s Home Theater product strategy

At CEDIA Expo 2019, Storm Audio announced a new version of their pro/pro lineup.

Since the SP-4 is based on the Storm Audio platform, will there be an updated Bryston SP-4.1 with the new DSP  board?

Thanks

Markus

Hi Markus

No we are staying with the MDS board.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 28 Oct 2019, 06:34 pm
Why are you not staying with the Storm product development strategy? Staying with the MDS board now creates a separate skew for Storm to maintain firmware on. A fear would be that necessary non HDMI related firmware updates would be delayed, perhaps not even administered if you are going with a board they themselves are no longer using. Wouldn't their ability to test that their firmware remains compatible with Bryston variants be compromised? I can't see the Bryston units receiving the same priority and attention going forward. Initially it may not be that bad because they would still have the MDS boards around however once MDS releases their 1st hardware update post Storm's launch of their own board then they will no longer have the current MDS hardware to test on.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 28 Oct 2019, 06:46 pm
Why are you not staying with the Storm product development strategy? Staying with the MDS board now creates a separate skew for Storm to maintain firmware on. A fear would be that necessary non HDMI related firmware updates would be delayed, perhaps not even administered if you are going with a board they themselves are no longer using. Wouldn't their ability to test that their firmware remains compatible with Bryston variants be compromised? I can't see the Bryston units receiving the same priority and attention going forward. Initially it may not be that bad because they would still have the MDS boards around however once MDS releases their 1st hardware update post Storm's launch of their own board then they will no longer have the current MDS hardware to test on.

Hi

We do the software as well so no issues going forward.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 11 Nov 2019, 05:01 pm
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200737)

MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-4 Processor – New Cubed Faceplate

November 2019

Hi Folks,

The Bryston SP-4 Surround Processor has been a very successful product for us over the past year.

We have decided to give it a ‘CUBED’ appearance to better fit in with our current Cubed Amplifier series.

Please see pictures below.

IMPORTANT:

We are currently backordered but should have more product available at the end of November.

Please let us know if you have any planned installed going into the new year.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 12 Nov 2019, 12:28 am

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200760)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: alexone on 12 Nov 2019, 08:08 am

...not sure about the black volume knob, but all in all the new look of the SP4 is very cool :thumb: :thumb:

al.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 14 Nov 2019, 06:13 am
PLEASE just add an analog bypass. I'll buy one, promise!!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Nov 2019, 02:44 pm
PLEASE just add an analog bypass. I'll buy one, promise!!

Get an SP3.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 20 Nov 2019, 06:44 am
Have one. I just want the processor to be faster. No qualms about the sound quality, though I would like subwoofer audio correction. SP4 w/o analog bypass is a no-go for me.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 20 Nov 2019, 02:34 pm
Have one..

 8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 20 Nov 2019, 02:35 pm
Why is there no delete button? :o
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 20 Nov 2019, 02:35 pm
delete
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 13 Jan 2020, 07:39 pm
Hi James, would you mind clarifying something for me.

So you stated that you will not offer the new Storm designed HDMI board which is bringing eARC (but not ALLM or VRR by the sounds of things) but what about Storm's MarK2 platform? From my reading and there is a bit of confusion this appears to be separate form the new HDMI board. If they are truly mutually exclusive items will the new Bryston units be running the Mark2 platforms to allow for dts:X Pro, IMAX Enhanced and Auro-3D V2 and would older unit be upgradable like the Storm units will be? Unfortunately I still don't see mention of Storm upgrading the internal processing from 48kHz to 96.

Thanks
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 13 Jan 2020, 08:04 pm
Hi James, would you mind clarifying something for me.

So you stated that you will not offer the new Storm designed HDMI board which is bringing eARC (but not ALLM or VRR by the sounds of things) but what about Storm's MarK2 platform? From my reading and there is a bit of confusion this appears to be separate form the new HDMI board. If they are truly mutually exclusive items will the new Bryston units be running the Mark2 platforms to allow for dts:X Pro, IMAX Enhanced and Auro-3D V2 and would older unit be upgradable like the Storm units will be? Unfortunately I still don't see mention of Storm upgrading the internal processing from 48kHz to 96.

Thanks

It’s still very much up in the air at this point so not sure what changes will be offered going forward.

Maybe Gary will have some input.

James
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Jan 2020, 08:39 pm
Can't you just buy the new card from Storm and install it in the SP4?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 13 Jan 2020, 09:01 pm
It’s still very much up in the air at this point so not sure what changes will be offered going forward.

Maybe Gary will have some input.

James

thanks James

Yeah if Gary could chime in that would be great. Since there is now 3 variants of the storm processor I'm trying to get a solid and firm understanding of the differences between Storm's unit, the Bryston unit and Focal's variant.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 13 Jan 2020, 09:02 pm
Can't you just buy the new card from Storm and install it in the SP4?

I doubt that, especially if Bryston is loading their own firmware into their units.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gdayton on 13 Jan 2020, 09:25 pm
Basically at this point, it's possible but not certain that we will get new features storm is advertising. We really don't have much more to share on it at the moment.  Sorry!

I doubt that, especially if Bryston is loading their own firmware into their units.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Jan 2020, 12:56 am
Thanks, do you know when that decision will be determined so it can be shared with owners and potential owners?

What I personally am obviously fearful of is if you officially break away from Storm with respect to hardware and firmware revisions then Bryston owners are essentially stuck with a product potentially frozen in time which as of this Spring when the new HDMI board and Mark2 main board updates are rolled out is obsolete when comparing back to the parent company's offering. Seeing as these units are north of $10k that's a lot of money to be putting out in the assumption the product is updatedable along with the Storm offering. If it's not going to be providing the parent company offering then it's no different than a very expensive receiver in that once it's purchased, that's essentially it, there is no guarantee from that point onwards it will receive any updates over time.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Jan 2020, 04:32 am
It always boils down to ROI, both for the consumer and respectfully to the vendor as well.
To the guys at Bryston, when it is time for the SP5 to roll out you need to think these things through in advance.
How would a marketing brochure look with ad copy like Gary's last post? "We think we may update these products from time to time in the future, we just don't have an answer yet???" Not good.
.
Gary or James, if you need help negotiating with storm reach out to Wilfried at Galaxy Studio's who spun the company off in the first place. great guy and he will probably give you some ideas that you won't need an NDA for. Good luck!

https://www.galaxystudios.com
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 14 Jan 2020, 04:56 pm
There is the ISE show coming up in February, it would be good if you guys could make an announcement at the show or have Storm announce it at their booth:

https://twitter.com/StormAudioFR/status/1217113898039566342?s=20
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jan 2020, 12:28 am
It always boils down to ROI, both for the consumer and respectfully to the vendor as well.
To the guys at Bryston, when it is time for the SP5 to roll out you need to think these things through in advance.
How would a marketing brochure look with ad copy like Gary's last post? "We think we may update these products from time to time in the future, we just don't have an answer yet???" Not good.
.
Gary or James, if you need help negotiating with storm reach out to Wilfried at Galaxy Studio's who spun the company off in the first place. great guy and he will probably give you some ideas that you won't need an NDA for. Good luck!

https://www.galaxystudios.com

Witchdoctor, you should know that it it very irritating to read your comments and criticism of Bryston products, but yet you own no Bryston products. If you genuinely want to help Bryston, how about buying something, anything from Bryston? The profit it can make from your business can help pay overhead as well as research and development. I own 5 Bryston products. If you don't own Bryston and can't help the company, you need to chill.  :roll:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jan 2020, 12:29 am
Delete
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 15 Jan 2020, 12:54 am
It always boils down to ROI, both for the consumer and respectfully to the vendor as well.
To the guys at Bryston, when it is time for the SP5 to roll out you need to think these things through in advance.
How would a marketing brochure look with ad copy like Gary's last post? "We think we may update these products from time to time in the future, we just don't have an answer yet???" Not good.
.
Gary or James, if you need help negotiating with storm reach out to Wilfried at Galaxy Studio's who spun the company off in the first place. great guy and he will probably give you some ideas that you won't need an NDA for. Good luck!

https://www.galaxystudios.com

I generally find Bryston's answers to be honest and frank. No b.s. It's just Canadian.

If you have a problem with that,.... tough. Post elsewhere.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 15 Jan 2020, 12:54 am
Delete

"Irritating" doesn't start to describe it.   :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 15 Jan 2020, 01:33 am
I for one welcome the constructive criticism. I am a Bryston owner and a big fan but would not want to see this forum turn into a place where only owners opinions count.

This pre/pro product category is a moving target mess IMO. What is going on with the new ATI/Datasat products for example?

Hopefully James and Gary do not find the posts irritating and can make some good decisions in a timely manor. I am patiently waiting.

I thought one of the advantages of the Storm platform is modularity?

Al
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 15 Jan 2020, 01:54 am
I think owners' opinions not only count, they should get top priority. Direct experience thru ownership and listening (to the gear, not to the marketing), there really is no substitute for them. Armchair criticism doesn't fly, especially when it's repetitious.
cheers
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 15 Jan 2020, 02:12 am

I thought one of the advantages of the Storm platform is modularity?

Al

Exactly and that's my primary concern here. If Storm is chosen as the product to re-brand the main selling points of Storm is as you mention modularity and the other big one is upgradability. So if Bryston is potentially deviating from that then what was the point of going with Storm in the 1st place. Bryston would have been better off rebranding a receiver, not a modern SSP. If Bryston had of just offered a modern receiver with ATMOS, Dirac, dts:X, etc. I wouldn't be having this discussion because the expected norm for such a product is no upgradeability and if you are lucky you may get an occasional firmware update but that's not what they went with, they went with a state of the art DSP based SSP who is continually updating their units in both hardware and firmware and show no signs of letting up.

To address gbaby and CanadianMaestro, being critical is being realistic, only a fanboy would find no fault in any product or decision the company is making. I've made no bones about it I would prefer to get a Trinnov but here in Canada even the Altitude16 is mid $20k according to my dealer not to mention the even more crazy price of the Atl32 even in 8-8 configuration so those products are completely out of my price range. Other products are Theta but again, those units when equipped with their good DAC's are also ridiculously expensive. So the obvious realistic choice becomes the Storm items, be that Storm's own, the Bryston and Focal.

Being a Bryston owner for many years of numerous amps plus the BDP-2 I would prefer to get the Storm under the Bryston umbrella since I have no actual Storm dealer in province and having a local dealer  goes a a long way if a unit runs into issues after purchase. So again to CanadianMaestro, not that it makes any difference, I am an owner and have been for going on 15 years.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jan 2020, 02:13 am
I for one welcome the constructive criticism. I am a Bryston owner and a big fan but would not want to see this forum turn into a place where only owners opinions count.

This pre/pro product category is a moving target mess IMO. What is going on with the new ATI/Datasat products for example?

Hopefully James and Gary do not find the posts irritating and can make some good decisions in a timely manor. I am patiently waiting.

I thought one of the advantages of the Storm platform is modularity?

Al

I see Bryston from a perspective of selling premium sounding, high end products for a relatively affordable price. Its selling the SP4 was an accommodation to ATMOS lovers, but they left the SP3 for those that is configured more towards music. Still, Bryston's focus even with the SP4 is with sound quality. I don't have the expectation that it will have every new feature like MQA. :lol: If you needed the features witchdoctor mentioned, you would have spoken on them. Correct?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 15 Jan 2020, 02:26 am
So again to CanadianMaestro, not that it makes any difference, I am an owner and have been for going on 15 years.

It makes a difference.
And a damn smart one too.  :thumb:

cheers
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jan 2020, 02:31 am
I think owners' opinions not only count, they should get top priority. Direct experience thru ownership and listening (to the gear, not to the marketing), there really is no substitute for them. Armchair criticism doesn't fly, especially when it's repetitious.
cheers

I agree. 8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Jan 2020, 02:37 am
Uhhhh, I think I started this thread, doesn't that mean I get to post in it?
As for being a Bryston authority, no I'm not, just a fan. However the SP4 is about IMMERSIVE audio and I have what is probably one of the most outstanding IMMERSIVE systems on AC. Not because it is the most expensive but because the majority of members here are two channel oriented or maybe 5 or 7 channels in the Home Theater Circle. If the witchdoctor upgrades it can only go one way from my 13.1 setup, and that is a 16 channel system.
I think I am the type of member this forum and this thread in particular serves. Someone who is researching future investments in a 16 channel (or more) processor.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 15 Jan 2020, 02:46 am
Gbaby, I am not locked into SP3 or SP4 features at this point. Would love to find a good demo, listen to the the new features and trust my ears.

Al.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 15 Jan 2020, 12:50 pm
gbaby is correct, there is still the SP3 and for anyone not looking for the latest surround tech that's an obvious choice for people. However the whole purpose of the SP 4 is to offer a product that does have the  latest tech and as part of that new world is an ever evolving hardware and firmware stream to keep up which Storm is offering. So SP4 owners and potential SP4 owners, at least those who know what the SP4 is, a re-branded Storm SSP would/should be expecting any Storm updates to the Bryston platform. Perhaps upgradeability is not a big deal to those not aware of what the SP4 is and they are purchasing with the state of mind this is all I will ever get in terms of feature set and are fine with that, much like a receiver, knowing if they want more capability in the future they'll have to purchase another unit from a different manufacturer.

I know James had mentioned they were thinking about bringing a more audiophile module to the unit and I think that's great, it's a very good move especially if the SP3 is eventually retired and users no longer have an audiophile 5.1/7.1 option however in my opinion those types of developments shouldn't come at the cost of Storm's own development and offerings like new HDMI boards and new main motherboards, etc.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jan 2020, 03:44 pm
Gbaby, I am not locked into SP3 or SP4 features at this point. Would love to find a good demo, listen to the the new features and trust my ears.

Al.

Al, listen to an SP3 and you will be locked into it. That's what happened to me. For me ATMOS is like MQA. Its a product no one asked for. I don't like ATMOS because it is gimmicky in my opinion. Also, I detest music coming from the ceiling. If you have the correct surround speakers and they are correctly located, you will think it is ATMOS with the SP3 as the SP3 is immersive in itself. I also like the synergy between the SP3, the BDA3 and the BDP3 which may have killed the turntable. I don't know, but it sure did cure my desire to have one.  :oops:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 15 Jan 2020, 05:48 pm
When it comes to immersive music you have a LOT of choices. A Tidal subscription and a pair of headphones brings you Sony 360 for immersive headphone listening, no speakers required. You have dedicated two channel fans, surround fans and as long as YOU are happy more channels does not necessarily make you happier.
I don't really like music coming from the ceiling either when all you had was the dolby upmixer for upmixing 2 channel tracks. However Auro 3D is set up differently than Atmos and sounds fantastic upmixing two channel to 9 or 10 channel.
I have started getting some music natively mixed in Atmos and it is a whole differnt ballgame. The last AES meeting was all about immersive audio and this will only continue to get better. Check out this link:

http://www.aes.org/conferences/2019/immersive/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 15 Jan 2020, 06:05 pm
I'm not sure if I would be a fan of music from the ceiling either, for me it's more of a movie and gaming feature.

But the Storm unit does have what they call SphereAudio described as "binaural Immersive Sound engine for headphones provides further flexibility over your 3D audio playback" According to the Bryston website it's an option in the SP4 so it wasn't stripped out.

Certainly not a discrete experience by any means :) but apparently a way of simulating 3D playback via headphones. Might be nothing more than a gimmick in reality though.

I communicated with Storm to see what their plans were for the future via HDMI 2.1 and additional 2.1 features and they are definitely on board, so when the chipsets become available things like ALLM, VRR, etc. will be offered via more updates so this is all very promising for the Storm units. Obviously no guarantee any of these will see the light of day in the SP4.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 15 Jan 2020, 09:50 pm

I communicated with Storm to see what their plans were for the future via HDMI 2.1 and additional 2.1 features and they are definitely on board, so when the chipsets become available things like ALLM, VRR, etc. will be offered via more updates so this is all very promising for the Storm units. Obviously no guarantee any of these will see the light of day in the SP4.

I would not concern myself with whether or not Storm will offer chipsets making available things like ALLM, VRR, or whatever those are. I remember folks were critical of Bryston because the SP3 didn't do DSD, but the Krell Foundation could play DSD. Now, the SP3 can play DSD, but now everyone is finding out that redbook 44.1 PCM is just fine and sounds more natural. We need to help and ensure Bryston keeps making state of the art hi fidelity equipment that is the best sounding for the money you spend for it. We also need to cherish the fact that we can communicate with top gun in the company. I've owned Sony ES, and Krell and I have never spoken to or communicated with anyone from those companies. Additionally, I think Bryston owners need to show a little discernment and not fall for the latest and greatest and let the pros determine if the latest and greatest are even needed. Do you remember Dolby Pro Logic IIz? :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 15 Jan 2020, 10:12 pm
ALLM - Auto Low Latency Mode
VRR - Variable Refresh Rate

Neither have anything to do with audio, they are video related, particularly game related. They, as well as eARC which is audio related are all part of the HDMI 2.1 specification however all 3 do not require HDMI 2.1 to be implemented, they can all be implemented within the HDMI 2.0b spec.

None would have any real place within the SP3 however the SP4 is another matter as a cutting edge processor but this thread isn't about the SP3 rather it's about the SP4.

A true HDMI 2.1 feature is 4k@120Hz as the 48GB data capacity is required which would more likely be a game feature only for the foreseeable future before being used for say movies, if ever. With the Xbox Series X and PS5 coming out this year these features can all be put to use. ALLM and VRR are already welcome introductions for gaming in 2019 and 2020 tv's along with G-sync and Free-sync (to date more for PC gaming) are are now becoming relevant for consoles as well growing the market

The issue to date is that receivers and SSP's have not yet adopted the features thus gamers, I'll use consoles here as an example have no choice but to send the video signal straight to the tv (to utilize ALLM and VRR) and use the console's legacy optical output to route the audio to the receiver or SSP. I haven't heard of anyone using eARC to route the audio from the tv back to the SSP for gaming but in theory it's possible to do it that way and again in theory you could maintain audio from games with LPCM, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos or dts:X soundtracks. Obviously using the legacy optical out denies the gamer the high res audio as only Dolby Digital and dts would pass through an optical cable.

As to Bryston continuing making state of the art hi fidelity equipment, don't forget, Bryston does not make the SP4 :) thus it's a very unique offering within the product lineup and obviously much more complicated than Bryston re-branding Torus power conditioners as BIT's.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 16 Jan 2020, 01:03 am
ALLM - Auto Low Latency Mode
VRR - Variable Refresh Rate

Neither have anything to do with audio, they are video related, particularly game related. They, as well as eARC which is audio related are all part of the HDMI 2.1 specification however all 3 do not require HDMI 2.1 to be implemented, they can all be implemented within the HDMI 2.0b spec.

None would have any real place within the SP3 however the SP4 is another matter as a cutting edge processor but this thread isn't about the SP3 rather it's about the SP4.

A true HDMI 2.1 feature is 4k@120Hz as the 48GB data capacity is required which would more likely be a game feature only for the foreseeable future before being used for say movies, if ever. With the Xbox Series X and PS5 coming out this year these features can all be put to use. ALLM and VRR are already welcome introductions for gaming in 2019 and 2020 tv's along with G-sync and Free-sync (to date more for PC gaming) are are now becoming relevant for consoles as well growing the market

The issue to date is that receivers and SSP's have not yet adopted the features thus gamers, I'll use consoles here as an example have no choice but to send the video signal straight to the tv (to utilize ALLM and VRR) and use the console's legacy optical output to route the audio to the receiver or SSP. I haven't heard of anyone using eARC to route the audio from the tv back to the SSP for gaming but in theory it's possible to do it that way and again in theory you could maintain audio from games with LPCM, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos or dts:X soundtracks. Obviously using the legacy optical out denies the gamer the high res audio as only Dolby Digital and dts would pass through an optical cable.

As to Bryston continuing making state of the art hi fidelity equipment, don't forget, Bryston does not make the SP4 :) thus it's a very unique offering within the product lineup and obviously much more complicated than Bryston re-branding Torus power conditioners as BIT's.

Good post. It more or less supports my point about expecting Bryston to have every new feature. Even with the SP4, I seriously doubt a person would buy it with gaming in mind. I'd be surprise to find folks who own SP3s and 4s are into gaming. :o In any event, I'm content with Bryston concentrating in sound. Gaming has zero interest to me. I'd rather read and learn something. Or maybe even grab a tennis racket. But gaming... :o
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 16 Jan 2020, 01:06 am
[
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Jan 2020, 01:24 am
Good post. It more or less supports my point about expecting Bryston to have every new feature. Even with the SP4, I seriously doubt a person would buy it with gaming in mind. I'd be surprise to find folks who own SP3s and 4s are into gaming. :o In any event, I'm content with Bryston concentrating in sound. Gaming has zero interest to me. I'd rather read and learn something. Or maybe even grab a tennis racket. But gaming... :o

hey now, I'm into gaming :) and a huge segment of the home theater (i.e. tv and SSP) market segment are gaming enthusiasts of around my age on average (say late 20's to late 40's) and we are the ones with the money to be able to afford this type of gear.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 16 Jan 2020, 02:19 am
+1, the X-Box 1 is a very robust machine. Yes, I can game. I can also play 4K blue rays, CD's, stream from a multiple of services such Amazon, Fandango,VUDU, Spotify, etc. A fantastic feature is the X-Box will pass a Dolby Vision or HDR signal that my TCL 4K TV can display. The WOW factor of the X-Box is Atmos. In the settings you can choose to pass an Atmos signal via bitstream, fine. What I found out is it will take a 5.1 signal and transcode it into an Atmos signal and the receiver reads the signal as Atmos, not dolby digital. Another benefit is it has a browser, access to onedrive where I store my music files and can stream them without needing a PC or USB drive.
So even if you don't game a lot the X-Box is a $200 marvel IMO and new apps are being added all the time.
So IMO a $10K + processor should be able to handle one of the two most popular gaming platforms.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 16 Jan 2020, 03:28 am
hey now, I'm into gaming :) and a huge segment of the home theater (i.e. tv and SSP) market segment are gaming enthusiasts of around my age on average (say late 20's to late 40's) and we are the ones with the money to be able to afford this type of gear.

Oh my! :o
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 16 Jan 2020, 04:06 pm
Oh my! :o

You know you want one, just do it! The entire system is cheaper than one of my cables:

https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-All-Digital-Console-Disc-free-Gaming/dp/B07XQXZXJC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=xbox&qid=1579190655&sr=8-1

Home Theater Review:
Conclusion
"To fully answer the question "Does the Xbox One X succeed as an all-in-one media player?" I lived with it as my sole media device for over a month. Since I'm a cord-cutter, I didn't need to feed a cable/satellite signal into the box's HDMI input, so I truly had a one-box solution. And after spending all that time with the One X, I can say, yes it does succeed. If you look at each category--UHD Blu-ray player, streaming media player, and audio streamer/player--there are better performers you can find within each. Products that offer better AV performance or easier setup or a more stylish interface. Still, the Xbox One X does a very good job of combining all that functionality into one box and still performing each task well"
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 17 Jan 2020, 01:24 am
You know you want one, just do it! The entire system is cheaper than one of my cables:

https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-All-Digital-Console-Disc-free-Gaming/dp/B07XQXZXJC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=xbox&qid=1579190655&sr=8-1

Home Theater Review:
Conclusion
"To fully answer the question "Does the Xbox One X succeed as an all-in-one media player?" I lived with it as my sole media device for over a month. Since I'm a cord-cutter, I didn't need to feed a cable/satellite signal into the box's HDMI input, so I truly had a one-box solution. And after spending all that time with the One X, I can say, yes it does succeed. If you look at each category--UHD Blu-ray player, streaming media player, and audio streamer/player--there are better performers you can find within each. Products that offer better AV performance or easier setup or a more stylish interface. Still, the Xbox One X does a very good job of combining all that functionality into one box and still performing each task well"

Witchdoctor, your interest is like that of a child to me. I wish you would stop posting on Bryston's site as you insult the company's goal as well as those who understand the company's goal. No one in their right mind would buy a 14k processor with a concern for gaming. It is the sound quality that is important, and game sound effects do not need the quality of electronics of an SP4. It was configured for movie watching. Post this crap on the Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Kenwood or other site that sell receivers with the latest and greatest. Receivers are known to have all the latest codecs and features. Their interest is not the ultimate sound quality, but rather, features. Now that you know Bryston will not add those features you mention, please stop posting and quit criticizing Bryston for not having these features. You are not a customer, and don't plan to be a customer so why be an irritant?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 17 Jan 2020, 02:55 am
Gbaby, children don't buy $$$$ 13.1 channel (or more) immersive SOA home theaters. I have not one but two, one in my media room and one in the man cave. I am EXACTLY the right customer for an SP4. I am simply waiting for the new HDMI standards that will come out at the end of this year before pulling the trigger. The SP4 is a SOA processor for both audio and VIDEO. You keep forgetting that video is just as much of the equation as audio and gaming consoles are often the centerpiece of an immersive home theater:

A video game console generation ago this was barely a consideration for most people, and a generation before that it wasn’t even a consideration. Today, though, game consoles are so much more than just a box you flip on when you want to game. Current generation consoles are capable of HD (and even 4K) video playback, Blu-ray and DVD playback, and they’re more than equipped to access streaming services"

https://www.reviewgeek.com/4415/which-game-console-is-the-best-home-entertainment-system/

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 17 Jan 2020, 03:18 am
So Gbaby, you have already stated you don't like Atmos, why not take your issues to the SP3 thread and stop annoying everyone who might actually buy an SP4 in the future?  :duh:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 17 Jan 2020, 02:22 pm
So Gbaby, you have already stated you don't like Atmos, why not take your issues to the SP3 thread and stop annoying everyone who might actually buy an SP4 in the future?  :duh:

I am not posting to criticize Atmos, but to criticize your criticism of Bryston for not having ALLM or VRR on its SP4. This is annoying. In fact, take a look at the SP4 and on its cover is states "Home Theater Processor." The unit is not configured with video games in mind, but rather, home theater.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 17 Jan 2020, 03:41 pm
I am not posting to criticize Atmos, but to criticize your criticism of Bryston for not having ALLM or VRR on its SP4. This is annoying. In fact, take a look at the SP4 and on its cover is states "Home Theater Processor." The unit is not configured with video games in mind, but rather, home theater.

So basically your only reason for being in this thread is to annoy me??
Can you PLEASE focus more on the SP4??
Now viewers back to our regular programming:

One of the pluses about the SP4 is dealer support. Am I capable of setting up Dirac and all the cables? I suppose. Do I WANT to? Hell no. So for me that is a big plus. But dealer support has to come with product upgrade support. Installing a new HDMI card for me is a PIA. I would MUCH rather get an e-mail from my dealer with a message, "Hey, when can I stop by to upgrade your SP4".
There are cheaper 16 channel processors out there so the main reason for me to spend more is not SQ. I don't think they make bad sounding processors when you are spending north of $5K let alone $10K. For me the deciding factor is upgradeability and red carpet service. Otherwise might as well spend south of $5K and just continue to get a new processor every 5 years.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 17 Jan 2020, 03:50 pm
It always boils down to ROI, both for the consumer and respectfully to the vendor as well.
To the guys at Bryston, when it is time for the SP5 to roll out you need to think these things through in advance.
How would a marketing brochure look with ad copy like Gary's last post? "We think we may update these products from time to time in the future, we just don't have an answer yet???" Not good.
.
Gary or James, if you need help negotiating with storm reach out to Wilfried at Galaxy Studio's who spun the company off in the first place. great guy and he will probably give you some ideas that you won't need an NDA for. Good luck!

https://www.galaxystudios.com

The reason for my most recent posts is the above post by you.  :evil:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 17 Jan 2020, 06:33 pm
The reason for my most recent posts is the above post by you.  :evil:

Sorry Gbaby but that issue is 100% legitimate, Bryston is aware of this and we are waiting for a post by the company to find out what is going on, don't touch that dial :D
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 18 Jan 2020, 12:05 am
Yes WD, modularity, upgradability, future proofing is a high priority for me as well. I guess we may all draw the $$$ line on ROI differently, but for my money even processors south of $5000 that turn into glorified door stops after 4-5 years does not represent good customer ROI to me. I have no doubts about Bryston customer service. Dealer support after the sale can vary IMO. It seems that making a go of it these days as a brick and mortar store can be a challenge. And more and more HT dealers seem to be installers without showrooms to demo the product. I do not need installation services. Maybe I am too old school. As I mentioned to gbaby I want to listen to both SP3 and SP4 and trust my ears.

Al
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 18 Jan 2020, 03:47 am
Sorry Gbaby but that issue is 100% legitimate, Bryston is aware of this and we are waiting for a post by the company to find out what is going on, don't touch that dial :D

If I were Bryston, I would not care about folks like you. You are a low fi kind of person who cares only of features for frivolous pursuits You want a Porsche with a Lincoln Continental ride. Or maybe I should say, you want a Lincoln Continental ride with a Porsche performance. :lol: You can't have everything in life.  You really don't get it. Buy Bryston, any Bryston, and maybe you will understand as it concerns audio. I am 65 years old and you sound like a youngster to me (I'm being kind) with your posts. I sold hi end audio equipment in the '70s in college in Durham, NC. I have an understanding of the audio industry, marketing, and the best product for the money. Bryston is the only product I have purchased where I felt I got my money's worth, and everything else I heard in its price range was appreciably inferior. I will say to you that if you need features like you are "waiting by the company to find out what is going on," then maybe you need another product. But, if your focus is on sonic accuracy and the best sound and hi fidelity for the money, then buy Bryston. You may need separate game room and audio room, I don't know.  :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 18 Jan 2020, 04:54 am
"If I were Bryston, yada,yada, yada, NADA"  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good luck with that!!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 18 Jan 2020, 01:55 pm
Bryston is the only product I have purchased where I felt I got my money's worth, and everything else I heard in its price range was appreciably inferior. But, if your focus is on sonic accuracy and the best sound and hi fidelity for the money, then buy Bryston. You may need separate game room and audio room, I don't know.  :lol:

Gaming does seem like underkill for something like the SP4, just look at its features. :lol:


I'm with you on Bryston. Amazing quality and SYNERGY vs. other brands I've tried.  :thumb:
Like you, I've found what I like, and it's for life.  $pending the dough on other stuff, not gear. :thumb:




Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 18 Jan 2020, 04:14 pm
One thing people can't lose focus of with the SP4 is that it is practically 100% still a Storm ISP 3D.16 ELITE minus of course the new face plate, Bryston logo coded into the firmware and possibly a few other minor tweaks (unless I hear otherwise) however until Bryston breaks formal firmware support ties with Storm and flashes the unit with a complete custom Bryston firmware and starts adding hardware designed and built by Bryston like the possible module James had mentioned it's still a Storm unit.

So talk about Bryston's build and design philosophy doesn't apply to this unit, not yet, that's a discussion for the SP3, Bryston's amps, etc. This unit as we know goes against James' approach to audio and was not his decision to on board the product. I suspect it was a corporate decision to keep the name Bryston relevant within the SSP market because I imagine the SP3 is a very niche product within what it already a niche market to begin with i.e. high end SSP's and Bryston was undoubtedly losing sales by not having a unit with a few more of current gen audio and video features.

For me a unit like this is purchased with home theater in mind 1st (vs being an audiophile level piece) however the reality is the unit will get much more use serving up cable tv, apps like Youtube, stereo music via my BDP-2 and gaming then it will DVD's, Blu-ray, and 4k Blu-rays from my standalone Oppo UDP-205 or movies/tv via streaming services. All this always goes through my 5 Bryston amps (2x28B-SST2, 2x7B-SST2 & a 4B-SST C-Series) and B&W Diamond speakers (2x800D2, 2x802D2 and a HTM2D2) with 3 Paradigm subs (2xServo 15a's and a Sub 25).

With Hollywood studios often mastering lackluster audio in their movies it's the gaming industry that have taken on the champion of surround sound and immersive audio. Audio in modern games is nothing short of astonishing featuring magnificent orchestral scores to utterly bombastic explosions, environmental effects etc. And since you are an active participant not passive like with watching movies as you move your character, car, ship, plane, etc. around the soundtrack conforms to you and where you are in a 360 degree environment (game dependent of course) so sounds are shifting all around you all of the time relative to where you are.

Are units like these built with gaming in mind, of course not I'm not naive but's it's gaming that truly does get the most out of them as an audio and video device
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 19 Jan 2020, 11:34 pm
Tell me an SP4 wouldn't slide perfectly into my system. You can see the current processor Marantz 7702 on the bottom, the Sony UHPH1 BRD above it. 120 inch screen in the middle. L-C-R speakers are Paradigm Active 40's and Active CC, the surround heights are Paradigm Active 20's. Then you can see the Center Height channel above the screen on the ceiling, Paradigm 400 Cinema. Finally the Paradigm Shift A2 Active speaker wide channels. Wide channels are KEY and very significant IMO. Mine are placed upside down (you can't see with the grills on) so the tweeters are on the same plane as the L-C-R speakers. The driver is now a little above the L-C-R speaker helping fill in not only between the front and rear speakers but the front bed and height channels as well. The wide channels are engaged using Audyssey DSX and DTS-Neo-X. If I get the SP4 I can use them with Atmos and DTS-X  but not Auro 3D. Every one of those active speakers are internally bi-amped with active crossovers. The subwoofer is the 2500 watt Sunfire TSEQ -10 :


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203566)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 19 Jan 2020, 11:42 pm
The Sony will play just about any disc type out there except UHD. I am waiting for the new HDMI standards before plunking down for a 4K PJ and my NEXT processor (SP4 is a candidate). The rear of the system you can see those same Active 40's as side surrounds and Active 20's as surround heights. The Optoma PJ on the ceiling, two VOG speakers, one mounted abobe each MLP. Back of the room are my back surround channels Paradigm Reference 20's (passive version of the Active 20's). Once I get a 16 channel processors those will become rear height channels and I'll mount two more Cinema 400's on the wall as rear surround channels. I chose an Auro 3D layout as Atmos sounds just fine in an Auro layout but Auro sounds bad in an atmos layout. For those of you wondering which layout to use for an SP4 I would recommend the Auro 3D layout every time. If you wanted you could move the side height channels to the rear and it would even be Atmos compliant and also sound good with Auro 3D.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203567)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 19 Jan 2020, 11:46 pm
Man cave is an Onkyo RZ630 9 channel receiver, a Bluesound Node Streamer and two gaming systems, the X-Box One and Nintendo Switch. Bed channels are JBL 230's and 225 CC mounted on Mapleshade Bedrock stands, subwoofer is the matching JBL 250P. Height channels are JBL Control Now (incredible) and a 4K TCL Smart TV with HDR and Dolby Vision. I have matching height channels mounted in the rear and wall mounted JBL 210 surround channels which you can't see in this pic:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203568)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 19 Jan 2020, 11:49 pm
That X-Box one is a $200 wonder. This movie is from the Vudu app from the X-Box, notice it is in 4K, Dolby Vision and Atmos, all streamed NP and the picture just POPS on the screen:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203569)




Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 20 Jan 2020, 12:04 am
I would feel 100% comfortable using the X-Box as the front in in the media room as well but don't need 4K capabilities just yet. I REALLY want an SP4 as long as the card issues get ironed out and who knows, maybe Bryston will have some new features Storm doesn't offer by the end of the year.

Let me say to anyone using the SP4 GET WIDE CHANNELS. Phenomenal with movies, music, and live concert videos.

 
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: NekoAudio on 20 Jan 2020, 10:16 pm
Only comments I have are that Atmos is definitely in demand by a non-trivial subset of the viewing population, and that set-top boxes and game consoles are not uncommon devices to hook up in a high-end surround sound setup. Especially considering the popularity of video streaming services.

The Xbox One S/X is a particularly interesting compatibility test in my experience, since it runs at 4Kp60 due to the UI overlay requirements even if the video content is 4Kp24/30. The PlayStation 4 Pro has some interesting compatibility issues as well.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: drummermitchell on 21 Jan 2020, 01:27 am
The Sony will play just about any disc type out there except UHD. I am waiting for the new HDMI standards before plunking down for a 4K PJ and my NEXT processor (SP4 is a candidate). The rear of the system you can see those same Active 40's as side surrounds and Active 20's as surround heights. The Optoma PJ on the ceiling, two VOG speakers, one mounted abobe each MLP. Back of the room are my back surround channels Paradigm Reference 20's (passive version of the Active 20's). Once I get a 16 channel processors those will become rear height channels and I'll mount two more Cinema 400's on the wall as rear surround channels. I chose an Auro 3D layout as Atmos sounds just fine in an Auro layout but Auro sounds bad in an atmos layout. For those of you wondering which layout to use for an SP4 I would recommend the Auro 3D layout every time. If you wanted you could move the side height channels to the rear and it would even be Atmos compliant and also sound good with Auro 3D.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203567)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: drummermitchell on 21 Jan 2020, 01:34 am
Mother of audio
All those speakers that close to each other
Extreme hard surfaces everywhere
No treatment anywhere
Small room
Definite Nightmare
Definitely two channel would sound good  1000 times better than all those frequencies slamming into each other
If it works for u enjoy
Personally the Mojo has left the room,hearing it or NOT.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 21 Jan 2020, 03:08 am
Mother of audio
All those speakers that close to each other
Extreme hard surfaces everywhere
No treatment anywhere
Small room
Definite Nightmare
Definitely two channel would sound good  1000 times better than all those frequencies slamming into each other
If it works for u enjoy
Personally the Mojo has left the room,hearing it or NOT.

Yeah, I should add some room treatments to the back wall but the side walls have drapes, there is a carpeted floor and those plush recliners are very absorptive. Audyessey really does a nice job with room correction and the measurements are fine (but Dirac would probably be better if I get an SP4).
You never engage ALL of those speakers at once in any of the various setups. For example there is something called "Pure Direct" if I want just two channel stereo, Auro 3D doesn't engage the rear channels, Atmos doesn't engage VOG or the wide channels, etc. Another intereresting feature about those Paradigm Active speakers is they have a switch on the back if you are using a subwoofer to trim some of the bass extension. You'll also notice that I don't use tower or floor standing speakers, the smaller speakers I use are a huge advantage in a smaller type room IMO.
So do YOU own an SP4 yet or looking to buy one? You sound like a two channel or multi-channel guy that still hasn't installed an immersive HT.

When I look at your system on your systems page I think those towers are overkill for the size of your room and your center channel is mounted way too low below your screen. It would sound better if all tweeters were on the same level (approximately ear level) like I have mine.
 With that center so low why not tilt it up a little using Auralex pads?



Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 21 Jan 2020, 04:08 am
One thing people can't lose focus of with the SP4 is that it is practically 100% still a Storm ISP 3D.16 ELITE minus of course the new face plate, Bryston logo coded into the firmware and possibly a few other minor tweaks (unless I hear otherwise) however until Bryston breaks formal firmware support ties with Storm and flashes the unit with a complete custom Bryston firmware and starts adding hardware designed and built by Bryston like the possible module James had mentioned it's still a Storm unit.

So talk about Bryston's build and design philosophy doesn't apply to this unit, not yet, that's a discussion for the SP3, Bryston's amps, etc. This unit as we know goes against James' approach to audio and was not his decision to on board the product. I suspect it was a corporate decision to keep the name Bryston relevant within the SSP market because I imagine the SP3 is a very niche product within what it already a niche market to begin with i.e. high end SSP's and Bryston was undoubtedly losing sales by not having a unit with a few more of current gen audio and video features.

For me a unit like this is purchased with home theater in mind 1st (vs being an audiophile level piece) however the reality is the unit will get much more use serving up cable tv, apps like Youtube, stereo music via my BDP-2 and gaming then it will DVD's, Blu-ray, and 4k Blu-rays from my standalone Oppo UDP-205 or movies/tv via streaming services. All this always goes through my 5 Bryston amps (2x28B-SST2, 2x7B-SST2 & a 4B-SST C-Series) and B&W Diamond speakers (2x800D2, 2x802D2 and a HTM2D2) with 3 Paradigm subs (2xServo 15a's and a Sub 25).

With Hollywood studios often mastering lackluster audio in their movies it's the gaming industry that have taken on the champion of surround sound and immersive audio. Audio in modern games is nothing short of astonishing featuring magnificent orchestral scores to utterly bombastic explosions, environmental effects etc. And since you are an active participant not passive like with watching movies as you move your character, car, ship, plane, etc. around the soundtrack conforms to you and where you are in a 360 degree environment (game dependent of course) so sounds are shifting all around you all of the time relative to where you are.

Are units like these built with gaming in mind, of course not I'm not naive but's it's gaming that truly does get the most out of them as an audio and video device

I have not been on this thread in the past few days, but I'd have to say that this is another good post by you.  8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 21 Jan 2020, 04:17 am
Tell me an SP4 wouldn't slide perfectly into my system. You can see the current processor Marantz 7702 on the bottom, the Sony UHPH1 BRD above it. 120 inch screen in the middle. L-C-R speakers are Paradigm Active 40's and Active CC, the surround heights are Paradigm Active 20's. Then you can see the Center Height channel above the screen on the ceiling, Paradigm 400 Cinema. Finally the Paradigm Shift A2 Active speaker wide channels. Wide channels are KEY and very significant IMO. Mine are placed upside down (you can't see with the grills on) so the tweeters are on the same plane as the L-C-R speakers. The driver is now a little above the L-C-R speaker helping fill in not only between the front and rear speakers but the front bed and height channels as well. The wide channels are engaged using Audyssey DSX and DTS-Neo-X. If I get the SP4 I can use them with Atmos and DTS-X  but not Auro 3D. Every one of those active speakers are internally bi-amped with active crossovers. The subwoofer is the 2500 watt Sunfire TSEQ -10 :


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203566)

All you need is better electronics like the SP4.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 21 Jan 2020, 04:27 am
Now you know why I started this thread, the SP4 is the potential upgrade I need.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 21 Jan 2020, 02:51 pm
Now you know why I started this thread, the SP4 is the potential upgrade I need.  :thumb:

I wish you well. But, drummermitchell made some very good observations on  your system. You may want to pursue quality of sound over ATMOS and numerous speakers. It looks like you are building a system and you are starting with quality speakers which is the same way I started, with quality speakers. It took several processors before I became sonically satisfied. I had a couple of Sony ES processors, an Arcam and stopped with the SP3. I heard Atmos, but was not impressed as I am more into sound accuracy. I want instruments and voices to sound musically accurate with no distortion. I would not need an expensive processor for game sound effects.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 21 Jan 2020, 04:18 pm
For anyone who has NOT implemented an immersive setup yet here are some things to consider.

1) Towers are not necessary. I would recommend speakers like the Mini T's or Mini A's for bed channels and the Mini A's for height channels. If you go active speakers like I did you can greatly reduce clutter and cost of additonal amps and speaker cables.
2) I would recommend height channels consisting of book shelves mounted high on the wall as first choice, speakers cut into your ceiling as second choice, and those bouncy speakers as last choice.
3) Auro 3D works best for upmixing music and actually sound better than a lot of (most?) native Atmos mixes. Native Atmos mixes are a crap shoot depending on who mixed the blue ray. auro let's you dial in preceisely how much you enage the height channels, the size of your roon, the type of content you are playing. None of the other upmixers do that.
4) Wide channels are amazing and I would actually choose them before adding heights. The reason I would NOT buy a lot of the processors on the market is they don't offer wide channel connections. Wide channels are not engaged for Auro 3D but can be engaged for both Atmos and DTS-X with the SP4.

Here is an article on speaker layouts:

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/immersive-audio-loudspeaker-layouts
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 21 Jan 2020, 04:24 pm
The most surprising thing I learned is how much better a system is with a CENTER HEIGHT CHANNEL. You can see the one I have mounted above my screen. To give you an analogy in a really good two channel setup you get a great sound stage and the vocals seem to emanate magically from between the center of the two speakers, even though there is no speaker there.

Once I tried adding an additional center channel above the screen it was a similar experience. The center height channel is waht Auro 3D refers to as an 11.1 system, not 10.1. i didn't know what I was missing until I tried it, now it would never leave my system.
Remember, I am using a 120 inch screen. With a 40 inch screen I don't know that the impact would be as dramatic. :)

See page 2.2.3 in this Auro 3D Theater setup guide. If you are just starting your immersive journey I would read the whole guide:

https://www.stormaudio.com/media/auro3d_home_theater_setup_guidelines_v8_20170531__049790400_1458_13062017.pdf
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 21 Jan 2020, 11:32 pm
I wish you well. But, drummermitchell made some very good observations on  your system. You may want to pursue quality of sound over ATMOS and numerous speakers. It looks like you are building a system and you are starting with quality speakers which is the same way I started, with quality speakers. It took several processors before I became sonically satisfied. I had a couple of Sony ES processors, an Arcam and stopped with the SP3. I heard Atmos, but was not impressed as I am more into sound accuracy. I want instruments and voices to sound musically accurate with no distortion. I would not need an expensive processor for game sound effects.

Gbaby you seem to be VERY happy, that's great. Sometimes you reach a point of arrival in this hobby, all good.
You seem to be confusing "atmos" with immersive audio. I don't know that I can help because you will NEVER own an SP4 right?
If you DID own an SP4 you would find out that it isn't the processor or speakers or setups fault that a lot of atmos content sucks. It's the mixers fault. Since you will never buy, rent, or borrow an immersive setup the following comments are for people who are reading this who have immersive aspirations. This is why I prefer Auro 3D but can switch to atmos if I want to because of how I chose my speaker layout. This is from a review of the Storm Audio processor that is the foundation of the SP4:

" With the I in ISP standing for “Immersive,” it’s no real surprise that the  Storm Audio I.ISP supports DTS:X, Dolby Atmos, and Auro-3D along with their respective upconverters to convert stereo, 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 sources to put some ambience in the height channels, if you have height channels installed. As has been usual in every review, AuroMatic is the best-sounding upconverter by a wide margin over DTS Neural:X or Dolby Surround. Also as usual,

 AuroMatic made music sound so great, I stopped listening to stereo music in stereo mode, preferring (witchdoctor concurs)

the AuroMatic option for every type of music I tried. Movies with poor DTS:X or Dolby Atmos soundtracks, where there’s little or no ambience in the height channels, sound better if you do not use DTS:X decoding or Dolby Atmos decoding and use the post-processing
AuroMatic option to upconvert the original 5.1 or 7.1 DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD soundtrack. Since the majority of 4K UHD Blu-ray Disc titles have such bad Immersive Sound in the height channels, I get a lot of use from AuroMatic."


Doug Blackburn, Wide Screen Review:
https://www.stormaudio.com/media/wsr_stormaudio_iisp_3d1612_review_december2017lowres__067250400_0949_22122017.pdf
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 22 Jan 2020, 01:51 am
Gbaby you seem to be VERY happy, that's great. Sometimes you reach a point of arrival in this hobby, all good.
You seem to be confusing "atmos" with immersive audio. I don't know that I can help because you will NEVER own an SP4 right?
If you DID own an SP4 you would find out that it isn't the processor or speakers or setups fault that a lot of atmos content sucks. It's the mixers fault. Since you will never buy, rent, or borrow an immersive setup the following comments are for people who are reading this who have immersive aspirations. This is why I prefer Auro 3D but can switch to atmos if I want to because of how I chose my speaker layout. This is from a review of the Storm Audio processor that is the foundation of the SP4:

" With the I in ISP standing for “Immersive,” it’s no real surprise that the  Storm Audio I.ISP supports DTS:X, Dolby Atmos, and Auro-3D along with their respective upconverters to convert stereo, 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 sources to put some ambience in the height channels, if you have height channels installed. As has been usual in every review, AuroMatic is the best-sounding upconverter by a wide margin over DTS Neural:X or Dolby Surround. Also as usual,

 AuroMatic made music sound so great, I stopped listening to stereo music in stereo mode, preferring (witchdoctor concurs)

the AuroMatic option for every type of music I tried. Movies with poor DTS:X or Dolby Atmos soundtracks, where there’s little or no ambience in the height channels, sound better if you do not use DTS:X decoding or Dolby Atmos decoding and use the post-processing
AuroMatic option to upconvert the original 5.1 or 7.1 DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD soundtrack. Since the majority of 4K UHD Blu-ray Disc titles have such bad Immersive Sound in the height channels, I get a lot of use from AuroMatic."


Doug Blackburn, Wide Screen Review:
https://www.stormaudio.com/media/wsr_stormaudio_iisp_3d1612_review_december2017lowres__067250400_0949_22122017.pdf

Witchdoctor, immersive audio is just another name applied to object based Atmos and DTS-X. These are just codecs designed for movies. I have heard them for hours in a high end audio/video store and the immersive audio made me laugh. I don't like sound coming from the ceiling as I'don't hear like that in real life. It doesn't fascinate me, but rather it I'm more of a music man with home theater being an incidental benefit. If I wanted immersive audio, I'd buy the SP4 because I know Bryston makes superior electronics and has superior customer service. I encourage you to get the Bryston SP4, but be careful. It is such a hugh jump from that Marantz it may run you crazy. :lol: This is what happened to me with my SP3. :D Bryston pruducts are special and they will make you customer for life.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: drummermitchell on 22 Jan 2020, 02:07 am
If u can’t get STEREO Right in any room,why fill it with more audio confusion,does not computer or make any sense.
Amazingly enough my towers sound superb in my Treated room,funny how treating your room makes a Huge difference
All your reflections you might as well be in a tiled bathroom
Install high end gear in a tiled room ,what do you get or a verrry reflective room...Garble..........
Perhaps I’ll mount my center speaker as high as my tower tweeters only after I buy a transparent screen
You should know my vocal and instrument separation are excellent,pin point imaging yada..yada
The Picts ...well over 10 hrs ago...
I’ll take my two channnel vac audio over your reflective busy reflective confused room
U haven’t a clue until you hear.......I mean really hear audio
If your two channel sucks,do u think adding more will improve it,doesn’t work that way
Good room average gear can be Superb,shit room great gear harrumph sucks the big one
Mights well put it ina garage
End of story
Good you enjoy your Room
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 02:18 am
If u can’t get STEREO Right in any room,why fill it with more audio confusion,does not computer or make any sense.
Amazingly enough my towers sound superb in my Treated room,funny how treating your room makes a Huge difference
All your reflections you might as well be in a tiled bathroom
Install high end gear in a tiled room ,what do you get or a verrry reflective room...Garble..........
Perhaps I’ll mount my center speaker as high as my tower tweeters only after I buy a transparent screen
You should know my vocal and instrument separation are excellent,pin point imaging yada..yada
The Picts ...well over 10 hrs ago...
I’ll take my two channnel vac audio over your reflective busy reflective confused room
U haven’t a clue until you hear.......I mean really hear audio
If your two channel sucks,do u think adding more will improve it,doesn’t work that way
Good room average gear can be Superb,shit room great gear harrumph sucks the big one
Mights well put it ina garage
End of story
Good you enjoy your Room

There are plenty of threads here for getting stereo right.. but why go backward? The world of audio has changed, you just read Doug Blackburn telling you that Auromatic upmixing is superior in every kind of music. Don't get mad at the witchdoctor for talking about IMMERSIVE audio from the vantage point of EXPERIENCE in thread on the SP4. The train has moved on guys and left stereo behind (even in headphines can you imagine). Check this out:

http://www.aes.org/conferences/2019/immersive/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 22 Jan 2020, 02:31 am
If u can’t get STEREO Right in any room,why fill it with more audio confusion,does not computer or make any sense.
Amazingly enough my towers sound superb in my Treated room,funny how treating your room makes a Huge difference
All your reflections you might as well be in a tiled bathroom
Install high end gear in a tiled room ,what do you get or a verrry reflective room...Garble..........
Perhaps I’ll mount my center speaker as high as my tower tweeters only after I buy a transparent screen
You should know my vocal and instrument separation are excellent,pin point imaging yada..yada
The Picts ...well over 10 hrs ago...
I’ll take my two channnel vac audio over your reflective busy reflective confused room
U haven’t a clue until you hear.......I mean really hear audio
If your two channel sucks,do u think adding more will improve it,doesn’t work that way
Good room average gear can be Superb,shit room great gear harrumph sucks the big one
Mights well put it ina garage
End of story
Good you enjoy your Room

Great post.
Frank, blunt, no b.s.

[I think lunatic asylums have tiled walls as well....or are they cushioned? ]
keep on listenin'!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 02:55 am
Great post.
Frank, blunt, no b.s.

[I think lunatic asylums have tiled walls as well....or are they cushioned? ]
keep on listenin'!

I agree, there are some lunatic members in an SP4 thread who have never tried immersive audio in their own listening room and have no interest but just keep posting...crazy right? (uh uh uh, but I heard it in a store  :roll:)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 03:02 am
If u can’t get STEREO Right in any room,why fill it with more audio confusion,does not computer or make any sense.
Amazingly enough my towers sound superb in my Treated room,funny how treating your room makes a Huge difference
All your reflections you might as well be in a tiled bathroom
Install high end gear in a tiled room ,what do you get or a verrry reflective room...Garble..........
Perhaps I’ll mount my center speaker as high as my tower tweeters only after I buy a transparent screen
You should know my vocal and instrument separation are excellent,pin point imaging yada..yada
The Picts ...well over 10 hrs ago...
I’ll take my two channnel vac audio over your reflective busy reflective confused room
U haven’t a clue until you hear.......I mean really hear audio
If your two channel sucks,do u think adding more will improve it,doesn’t work that way
Good room average gear can be Superb,shit room great gear harrumph sucks the big one
Mights well put it ina garage
End of story
Good you enjoy your Room

Speaking of rooms why did you spend $$$ on revel speakers and then place that center channel so low? Check out Isoacoustic stands to tilt them up or even to raise the center channel:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 03:16 am
BTW, anyone who is actually thinking about buying an SP4, just ignore the posters who DON'T have an immersive setup but somehow are content about criticizing it. It is there sad way of compensating in an industry that is passing them by. DON'T believe a witchdoctor, believe the Audio Engineering Society.

http://www.aes.org/conferences/2019/immersive/

Once upon a time Atmos was only for movies, now its for music and will be streaming via Amazon this year:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/what-is-dolby-atmos-music-and-how-to-get-it/

You can get immersive audio on your headphones TODAY via Sony 360 on Tidal:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/360-reality-audio

Of course movies are a no brainer IF the SP4 updates their HDMI board, if not 2021 might be a problem.

That brings to 2 channel legacy content, with an SP4 you can:

1) leave it in stereo
2) upmix it to 7.1 surround via auro 2 D
3) or try full on immersive upmixing:

https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/dolby-dts-auro-surround-sound-upmixer-comparison/

Finally if you want you can just join the flat earthers in this thread and complain, but then you will miss out on that glorious immersive experience as the rest of us move on.  8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 22 Jan 2020, 03:21 pm
Ignorance is bliss. :roll:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 22 Jan 2020, 03:29 pm
Orwell was right.  8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 03:35 pm
" Dolby Atmos Music is slowly making its way into the mainstream music business, and it makes good ol’ stereo sound like mono AM radio."
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/what-is-dolby-atmos-music-and-how-to-get-it/

I would say that's fairly accurate in my experience, check out the Abbey Road Atmos mix (oh that's right, you can't :duh:)

"The Atmos is just the icing on the cake, for anyone with an Atmos set up this is an absolute must have set.
Atmos just allows the music to breathe, and without doubt you hear things that you have never heard before, Incredible.

Giles has done a great job with the Atmos he hasn't just put sounds anywhere just because he can.
"


https://hdmoviesourcebluray.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-beatles-abbey-road-dolby-atmos-review.html
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 22 Jan 2020, 04:31 pm
All market hype (as with much of "novel" audio). And very subjective.
But what else is new?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 05:19 pm
You really need to watch this:

Deadmaus:

https://youtu.be/pp8RPrBWYEo

and this, Coldplay:

https://youtu.be/dINNh9Dh5Ug

and this, Lizzo:

https://youtu.be/ybwQy7D275M



Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 22 Jan 2020, 05:41 pm
Deadmaus? LOL. Noise. 
If that's what you listen to all day, on your souped up system, I pity you.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 22 Jan 2020, 07:12 pm
Deadmaus? LOL. Noise. 
If that's what you listen to all day, on your souped up system, I pity you.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 07:24 pm
Deadmaus? LOL. Noise. 
If that's what you listen to all day, on your souped up system, I pity you.

I liked the video of him at the mixing desk, describing the atmos creative process.
The fact that you can't hear Abbey Road Atmos mix in your own space? Now THAT's a pity :oops:

Remember, you are the guy with the "AM Radio"  :lol:

" Dolby Atmos Music is slowly making its way into the mainstream music business, and it makes good ol’ stereo sound like mono AM radio."
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 07:26 pm
:lol:

Go back to the store Gbaby, I am sure they are hoping you'll buy something next time instead of wasting there time sitting in the listening room "Can I hear it again please?"  :roll:

If they get tired of you, you can always use Amazon, start slowly and get ready to be AMAZED:

https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-1TB-Console-Fallen-Bundle/dp/B07YD67145/ref=sr_1_3?crid=28NOK8VTGPR32&keywords=xbox+one+s&qid=1579721327&sprefix=xbox%2Caps%2C180&sr=8-3
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Jan 2020, 07:49 pm
The two channel or multi channel guys remind me of guys with horses criticizing the guy with the car

and when the witchdoctor with the "car" gets an SP4 he will have a VERY nice car indeed :thumb:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/bryston-sp4-16-channel-surround-processor-review/

I hope maestro and gbaby trade up but what can you do, " Hi Yo Silver" or whatever...
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 22 Jan 2020, 09:44 pm

...and when the witchdoctor with the "car" gets an SP4...

It will be a cold day in hell. :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 23 Jan 2020, 10:58 am
It will be a cold day in hell. :lol:

All kidding aside, you should get one too even if you never use atmos or immersion. The SP4 will "bring your speakers to life".
Have you ever used room correction before?Check out Dirac:

https://live.dirac.com/overview/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 23 Jan 2020, 02:29 pm
All kidding aside, you should get a life, WD.   :lol:
and a reality check.

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 23 Jan 2020, 03:04 pm
All kidding aside, you should get a life, WD.   :lol:
and a reality check.

If you go through this thread I think you'll find I posted a lot of relevant info re: immersive audio.
I actually OWN not one but two immersive HT, posted pics of both, posted info re: setup, formats,etc. from a vantage point of having experienced it for the last 5 years.
All I can see you posting about is the WD. :green:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 23 Jan 2020, 07:38 pm
If you go through this thread I think you'll find I posted a lot of relevant info re: immersive audio.
I actually OWN not one but two immersive HT, posted pics of both, posted info re: setup, formats,etc. from a vantage point of having experienced it for the last 5 years.
All I can see you posting about is the WD. :green:

Withdoctor, what Canadia Maestro is trying to tell you in a jovial manner is that it is obvious from your posts that you do not understand audio, high fidelity or the mission of Bryston. It is also obvious to him, me and others,  that you cannot afford the SP4 and you are only posting to keep relevant for whatever reason. Even Stevie Wonder can see this.  :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 23 Jan 2020, 10:28 pm
Withdoctor, what Canadia Maestro is trying to tell you in a jovial manner is that it is obvious from your posts that you do not understand audio, high fidelity or the mission of Bryston. It is also obvious to him, me and others,  that you cannot afford the SP4 and you are only posting to keep relevant for whatever reason. Even Stevie Wonder can see this.  :lol:

Like I said, I will make my decision when the new HDMI boards come out. I have a LOT of choices, the question is do I want to plunk down $2-4K every 3-5 years in an upgrade cycle or plunk down $10K++ upfront and then a more modest amount for cards at each refresh cycle. Remember Gbaby, price is ONLY an issue in the absence of value.



Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 24 Jan 2020, 01:10 am
Like I said, I will make my decision when the new HDMI boards come out. I have a LOT of choices, the question is do I want to plunk down $2-4K every 3-5 years in an upgrade cycle or plunk down $10K++ upfront and then a more modest amount for cards at each refresh cycle. Remember Gbaby, price is ONLY an issue in the absence of value.

Like I said, even Stevie Wonder can see you. A man chasing features and codecs has no real interest in high fidelity.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 24 Jan 2020, 01:21 am
gbaby,   :thumb:

Ray Charles. Helen Keller. Andrea Bocelli.
What do they all have in common?

They all see WD!  :lol: :lol: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 24 Jan 2020, 03:23 am
It's too bad we don't have the perspective of someone who actually OWNS an SP4... just two guys with AM radios riding on horses
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 24 Jan 2020, 02:11 pm
and a guy auditioning to be a clown with speakers 10 ft above his head.   :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 24 Jan 2020, 02:43 pm
My setup is almost EXACTLY like Abbey Road studio (even with active speakers) except the number of subwoofers. Check out this photo taken when they were remixing Pink Floyd for immersive audio. Same 11.1 setup, active speaker height channels on tall stands, etc.
Get over it :green:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=162426)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 24 Jan 2020, 03:57 pm
" Dolby Atmos Music is slowly making its way into the mainstream music business:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203756)
 







and it makes good ol’ stereo sound like mono AM radio."
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/what-is-dolby-atmos-music-and-how-to-get-it/




(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203758)

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Pundamilia on 24 Jan 2020, 04:01 pm
This discussion has degenerated into a waste of bandwidth. :x
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 24 Jan 2020, 07:21 pm
Check out Roger Waters The Wall blueray with the Dolby Atmos mix:

"We actually reviewed the film with a full Dolby Atmos setup using a 7.2.4 configuration and the results were simply stunning, easily the best sounding concert movie we've ever heard. Pink Floyd and Roger Waters have a long history of superior sound quality at their concerts and they've been using quadrophonic sound since the seventies, so it's no surprise that Waters has embraced Dolby Atmos for this film. However he also understands how to use it to its full advantage, creating a highly immersive audio experience."
https://www.avforums.com/reviews/roger-waters-the-wall-blu-ray-review.12102


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203784)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 24 Jan 2020, 07:25 pm
The witchdoctor watched this concert movie with pretty much the same rig that they used to mix it with in the abbey road studio. I can't understand why any one into this hobby would not want to recreate the live concert experience in their listening room as Roger intended.. :scratch:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: brucek on 24 Jan 2020, 09:21 pm
The witchdoctor watched this concert movie with pretty much the same rig that they used to mix it with in the abbey road studio. I can't understand why any one into this hobby would not want to recreate the live concert experience in their listening room as Roger intended.. :scratch:

Did the live concert actually have ceiling mounted speakers?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 25 Jan 2020, 03:03 am
This discussion has degenerated into a waste of bandwidth. :x

I agree.  :(
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Jan 2020, 03:36 am
Did the live concert actually have ceiling mounted speakers?

"The show features loads of effects, which are also expertly reproduced in the Atmos mix, whether that's explosions around you, fireworks going off above you or planes flying overhead"
[/b]- Steve Withers Review, avforums

https://youtu.be/98FzjVie-9k
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Jan 2020, 04:37 am
I agree.  :(

The bandwidth wars have surrendered, "lossy","flac","hirez" are a sad shadow of immersive audio. Just got done streaming Meeks Mills Championships in Dolby Atmos via Tidal tonight.


TIDAL and Dolby Celebrated Meek Mill’s Championships with Live Dolby Atmos Music Performance

https://hiphopsince1987.com/2020/news/tidal-and-dolby-celebrated-meek-mills-championships-with-live-dolby-atmos-music-performance/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Jan 2020, 03:57 pm
Look how your movies and music are being mixed today in the 2020's. Without an immersive listening room you will NEVER be able to reproduce the artists, directors, or engineers intent. IMO you might as well just use headphones:

Dolby Labs

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203824)



(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203825)

Dub Stage


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203827)


Sony Mixing Stage


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203828)


DTS


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203829)

Abbey Road Institute

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203830)






Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Jan 2020, 04:08 pm
All you need to do is setup your listening room properly and hit the play button:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203831)

or

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203832)

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: S Clark on 25 Jan 2020, 04:35 pm
WD,  you've been banging this drum for years around here.  Does anyone even listen to you anymore? Have you made any converts?
You're like the crazy guy on a street corner yelling "the end is near" as the rest of the world walks by. 
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Jan 2020, 05:44 pm
WD,  you've been banging this drum for years around here.  Does anyone even listen to you anymore? Have you made any converts?
You're like the crazy guy on a street corner yelling "the end is near" as the rest of the world walks by.

I don't know about making converts and yes I am very passionate about immersive audio. If the "rest of the world" is walking by why is Bryston selling so many SP4's?  :scratch:
I started this thread in the hopes of sharing immersive audio experiences with SP4 owners and other members. When the dust clears at the end of the year and the new HDMI standard is released I hope to have enough info for my next upgrade (PJ and Processor).

https://www.reviewed.com/televisions/features/hdmi-20-vs-hdmi-21-whats-the-difference-and-which-do-i-need
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 25 Jan 2020, 06:13 pm
I don't know about making converts and yes I am very passionate about immersive audio. If the "rest of the world" is walking by why is Bryston selling so many SP4's?  :scratch:
I started this thread in the hopes of sharing immersive audio experiences with SP4 owners and other members. When the dust clears at the end of the year and the new HDMI standard is released I hope to have enough info for my next upgrade (PJ and Processor).

https://www.reviewed.com/televisions/features/hdmi-20-vs-hdmi-21-whats-the-difference-and-which-do-i-need

You don't need to share immersive audio with SP4 owners as they are already astute enough to know about immersive audio. This thread is for folks who like Bryston products. It is not for a discussion of immersive audio; just immersive audio for the SP4. Can you discern the difference? :duh:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Jan 2020, 06:29 pm
You don't need to share immersive audio with SP4 owners as they are already astute enough to know about immersive audio. This thread is for folks who like Bryston products. It is not for a discussion of immersive audio; just immersive audio for the SP4. Can you discern the difference? :duh:

You can do whatever you want, but have provided 0 info on SP4 other than to say you don't like Atmos, 0 info on IMMERSIVE audio which is why most people would buy an SP4 and are obsessed with everything and anything WD. All the Bryston products you use have their own threads, they must get lonely without you. If that makes you happy its OK by me :D
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 25 Jan 2020, 06:41 pm
The clinical term for your condition is OCD.
In slang, it's basically "one-trick pony".
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 25 Jan 2020, 08:46 pm
For you two or multi-channel guys let me give you an analogy you can relate to. Imagine you are listening to music that was mastered in stereo and you only have either a left channel or right channel but not both.

Once you have experienced IMMERSIVE audio that is EXACTLY the experience if you were to remove the height channels once you have them in your system:

Before:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203852)

After:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203853)




Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 25 Jan 2020, 09:49 pm
You can do whatever you want, but have provided 0 info on SP4 other than to say you don't like Atmos, 0 info on IMMERSIVE audio which is why most people would buy an SP4 and are obsessed with everything and anything WD. All the Bryston products you use have their own threads, they must get lonely without you. If that makes you happy its OK by me :D

I repeat, this is not a thread for a discussion of Immersive audio. This topic, started by you, is for a discussion of the sonic capability of the SP4 in rendering immersive audio. You need to buy one to even talk about it. Since you can't afford to buy one, it is completely unnecessary to engage in frivolous conversations about immersive audio in general. The only interest is immersive audio as how it sounds on the SP4.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 25 Jan 2020, 11:30 pm
I agree.

Right from the get-go, WD's posts (and this thread) have promoted Immersive Audio (and MQA), period. Not the SP4. As such, the proper action that moderators should do here, is to move this thread's posts to a generic thread on IA (if one exists, if not, create one), one without "Bryston SP4" in its title.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 26 Jan 2020, 12:31 pm
Nice video on setting up the SP4, seems straight forward enough. Check out the configurations at 1:40, everything from 2 channel stereo to a 9.1.6 home theater. Here is where Bryston breaks it down into recommended configurations or all available. Does anyone know if Bryston did that to match room sizes or just personal preferences?

https://youtu.be/aAya7kqiQ84
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 26 Jan 2020, 06:40 pm
Another thing about that setup video if you go to 3:00 you'll see you can EQ each speaker. If you are thinking about Bryston Active speakers you could probably forgo getting the BAX-1 and save some dough. Active speakers with active crossovers are such an incredible upgrade to traditional passive speakers with passive crossovers. I use Paradigm Active 40's which are about the same size as Bryston Active Mini-T's. I think that would be all the speaker you would possibly need for your bed channels.

Does anyone know how many BAX-1's you could replace with an SP4 if you have 7 Active Mini-T's as your bed channels?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 26 Jan 2020, 08:29 pm
I repeat, this is not a thread for a discussion of Immersive audio. This topic, started by you, is for a discussion of the sonic capability of the SP4 in rendering immersive audio. You need to buy one to even talk about it. Since you can't afford to buy one, it is completely unnecessary to engage in frivolous conversations about immersive audio in general. The only interest is immersive audio as how it sounds on the SP4.

Hey Gbaby, thanks for your financial advice, but don't you know that doctors make a lot of scratch? :thumb:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 26 Jan 2020, 08:37 pm
I agree.

Right from the get-go, WD's posts (and this thread) have promoted Immersive Audio (and MQA), period. Not the SP4. As such, the proper action that moderators should do here, is to move this thread's posts to a generic thread on IA (if one exists, if not, create one), one without "Bryston SP4" in its title.

Actually if you look at the 4th post in this thread I scpecifically said MQA is not a factor but thanks for bringing it up. I was shocked by the bang for the buck Onkyo provided when I scored that immersive receiver for the man cave (shocked). So I started researching their line and found something called the DPX1 Digital Audio Player. It can be used via line out (balanced or unbalanced) into a pre OR you can use the USB out into a DAC. It also runs Android OS so I can download apps for any streaming service I want which is the achilles heel of comperting network players. most have their own OS and if you don't like it you are stuck.
So it was designed for hirez and is MQA friendly so that is now a non factor.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/onkyo-dp-x1-portable-music-player/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 1 Feb 2020, 07:56 pm
This discussion has degenerated into a waste of bandwidth. :x
I have been away from this thread for many months and just came back to check for any interesting news on my SP4.
Sadly to say I found nothing except for the new faceplate that probably could not be retrofitted anyway?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Feb 2020, 04:43 pm
I have been away from this thread for many months and just came back to check for any interesting news on my SP4.
Sadly to say I found nothing except for the new faceplate that probably could not be retrofitted anyway?

What is your speaker layout? How many channels, Auro 3D or Atmos? Do you use wide channels?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 22 Feb 2020, 06:41 pm
What is your speaker layout? How many channels, Auro 3D or Atmos? Do you use wide channels?

WD, there is something wrong with you to ask Extreman these questions. You can't be a doctor, and if you are, I feel sorrow for your patients. But, maybe you are not a medical doctor, but perhaps you have a PhD in autism, I don't know. But, educated folks do not write like you. And, I have never heard a physician to say that he makes big bucks.  Don't you know the Extreman was basically criticizing you for making these crazy posts about immersive audio with no comment on the SP4? Please quit posting on Bryston's sites period until you buy Bryston. I saw a post about you on another thread wherein someone challenged you to buy a Bryston product and quit posting. This post was some five years ago. Please make your juvenile posts elsewhere. :roll: :x
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 23 Feb 2020, 02:17 pm
GBaby, you state you have no interest in Atmos, no interest in immersive music, and apparently no interest in ever buying an SP4. I started this thread and DO have an interest in all of the above.
Good luck :duh:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 24 Feb 2020, 02:32 pm
GBaby, you state you have no interest in Atmos, no interest in immersive music, and apparently no interest in ever buying an SP4. I started this thread and DO have an interest in all of the above.
Good luck :duh:

My interest is in Bryston products so hopefully, your next post will be sharing your opinion on the sonic traits of the SP4 you have purchased.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 24 Feb 2020, 03:40 pm
Gbaby's interest as far as I can tell is all things Witchdoctor  :oops:
Title: Bryston SP4 vs SP3 + BDA-3
Post by: Grit on 13 Mar 2020, 05:47 am
Has someone listened to the SP4 as a 2-ch audio DAC + preamp that can comment on it vs a Bryston SP3 in analog bypass with BDA-3 or similar? I've always ASSUMED (yeah, I know), that no HT processor could match a good separate DAC + preamp or 2-ch bypass in the SP3.  But if the SP4 sounded as good in 2ch as the SP3 + BDA-3... :)

I'm guessing "no" though?

I REALLY wish I could upgrade the SP3's built-in DACs to sound like the BDA-2 or BDA-3.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 13 Mar 2020, 02:42 pm
Grit, do you have a local dealer where you can audition both components?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 15 Mar 2020, 04:36 pm
Nope. All the local dealers closed their doors in the last few years. And I live in a larger city!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 16 Mar 2020, 04:37 pm
Nope. All the local dealers closed their doors in the last few years. And I live in a larger city!

Witchdoctor looks at the SP models like they are entry level Marantz, Pioneer, and Kenwood receivers wherein every model is in stock in Best Buy or Circuit City. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a clue.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Calypte on 16 Mar 2020, 05:56 pm
Witchdoctor looks at the SP models like they are entry level Marantz, Pioneer, and Kenwood receivers wherein every model is in stock in Best Buy or Circuit City. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a clue.

Circuit City?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 16 Mar 2020, 07:47 pm
Circuit City?

I don't know your age, but Circuit City was a huge electronics retailer in the late '70s, 80s and 90s, selling receivers, turntables, cables, CDs, DVDs and other media and electronics products. All their retail stores are now closed. I think Best Buy may have run the out of business. In any event, it was nothing for Circuit City to have every model of a mid fi receiver, and the more you paid, the more watts and features you had.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: CanadianMaestro on 16 Mar 2020, 09:32 pm
I don't know your age, but Circuit City was a huge electronics retailer in the late '70s, 80s and 90s, selling receivers, turntables, cables, CDs, DVDs and other media and electronics products. All their retail stores are now closed. I think Best Buy may have run the out of business. In any event, it was nothing for Circuit City to have every model of a mid fi receiver, and the more you paid, the more watts and features you had.

https://www.circuitcity.com/
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 17 Mar 2020, 01:00 am
https://www.circuitcity.com/

I forgot to mention, back then, Circuit City was brick and mortar. :oops:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 17 Mar 2020, 04:56 pm
DOW dow, NOW now!
The Good Guys

Now we (in the US) just have Best Buy (Fry's is more empty than a grocery store today).
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Calypte on 17 Mar 2020, 05:08 pm
I don't know your age, but Circuit City was a huge electronics retailer in the late '70s, 80s and 90s, selling receivers, turntables, cables, CDs, DVDs and other media and electronics products. All their retail stores are now closed. I think Best Buy may have run the out of business. In any event, it was nothing for Circuit City to have every model of a mid fi receiver, and the more you paid, the more watts and features you had.

I'm 75.  I knew Circuit City.  The post seemed to suggest that Circuit City is still around.  I was having fun with it. 

Looking at some of the other posts, at least one seems to be from a Californian.  In so. Calif. we once had a choice of mid-fi retailers.  Going back to the '80s in San Diego, we had Dow, Mad Jack's, Leo's, Federated Group, Silo, Pacific Stereo, and Good Guys.  A little further back was Wright's House of Hi-Fi.  Not all at the same time, but when one chain died, another would rise in its place.  I may have forgotten one or two.  There were quite a few hi-end retailers, too.  The mid-fi -- except for Best Buy -- are extinct.  My favorite hi-end store in S.D. closed (owner retired), and I think they're down to one or two (Breier's and Stereo Unlimited).  In L.A. -- huge as it is -- the only one I know is Shelley's.  I know them, because they service Linn turntables.  Almost all of my purchases of new gear in recent years has been online retailers and direct from the factory/importer (Hsu Research).
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 17 Mar 2020, 09:10 pm
San Diego here!

Until a few years ago, we had Stereo Design. Years ago, we also had Sound Company. (both hi-fi).

I'm gonna open a new thread, because it'll be fun to name all the places we used to go to buy records, cassette tapes, and eventually, CDs!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 17 Mar 2020, 11:10 pm
I'm 75.  I knew Circuit City.  The post seemed to suggest that Circuit City is still around.  I was having fun with it. 

Looking at some of the other posts, at least one seems to be from a Californian.  In so. Calif. we once had a choice of mid-fi retailers.  Going back to the '80s in San Diego, we had Dow, Mad Jack's, Leo's, Federated Group, Silo, Pacific Stereo, and Good Guys.  A little further back was Wright's House of Hi-Fi.  Not all at the same time, but when one chain died, another would rise in its place.  I may have forgotten one or two.  There were quite a few hi-end retailers, too.  The mid-fi -- except for Best Buy -- are extinct.  My favorite hi-end store in S.D. closed (owner retired), and I think they're down to one or two (Breier's and Stereo Unlimited).  In L.A. -- huge as it is -- the only one I know is Shelley's.  I know them, because they service Linn turntables.  Almost all of my purchases of new gear in recent years has been online retailers and direct from the factory/importer (Hsu Research).

Actually, I am from the east coast of North Carolina, New Bern. I lived in Durham, NC while in college in th mid '70s and we had a mid fi retailer called Best Products where I was employed in the audio department. We also had Circuit City. I left Best Products to work with Vicker's Audio selling really high end equipment. Circuit City caused us to go out of business. :cry: I am 65 and I believe after us, the days of audio will be gone for sure as new music doesn't require fidelity as there are few instruments being played in contemporary music.  :cry:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 18 Mar 2020, 10:07 pm
Actually, I am from the east coast of North Carolina, New Bern. I lived in Durham, NC while in college in th mid '70s and we had a mid fi retailer called Best Products where I was employed in the audio department. We also had Circuit City. I left Best Products to work with Vicker's Audio selling really high end equipment. Circuit City caused us to go out of business. :cry: I am 65 and I believe after us, the days of audio will be gone for sure as new music doesn't require fidelity as there are few instruments being played in contemporary music.  :cry:

That's where you bought your speakers right? 1970 at Best Products? Did you ever think that the reason contemporary music sounds bad to you isn't the musicians fault, it's your speakers? The 1970's called, they want their speakers back  :duh:

Hey Gbaby, the next time you shop for stereo equipment I got JUST the place for you, check it out:

https://youtu.be/Ml6S2yiuSWE 

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 19 Mar 2020, 12:40 am
That's where you bought your speakers right? 1970 at Best Products? Did you ever think that the reason contemporary music sounds bad to you isn't the musicians fault, it's your speakers? The 1970's called, they want their speakers back  :duh:

Hey Gbaby, the next time you shop for stereo equipment I got JUST the place for you, check it out:

https://youtu.be/Ml6S2yiuSWE

Is this autism or retardation? :roll: :lol:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 19 Mar 2020, 02:58 am
Is this autism or retardation? :roll: :lol:

Gbaby you have a SEVERE case of jealousy for the sublime and supreme experience of IMMERSIVE audio, You troll the thread of a product that is designed for something you don't like, will never use, and secretly lust after, the SP4. :green:
Go back to Crazy Eddie's or wherever you used to work, good luck with that.
 

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 14 Apr 2020, 12:14 am
Just thought I would check to see if Bryston has finally made a decision as to the product support path for the SP4 and if so what does that entail? Will it include all firmware and hardware updates that come to the main Storm units? If so what is the anticipated delay between Storm units getting the updates and the SP4 getting the updates? Days, weeks, months? If the SP4 will not be following the Storm parent path what exactly are the deviations and please explain why and how those product path gaps will be addressed? For a $20k+ investment these are things which there can be absolutely no grey area and I'm very surprised the product is currently being sold when there was no concrete answers to these questions a few months ago.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: drummermitchell on 15 Apr 2020, 12:29 am
I’m waiting also................................
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 16 Apr 2020, 01:30 pm
StormAudio just released firmware 4.0 update to support Dirac's new bass management add on:

https://twitter.com/StormAudioFR/status/1250773677861490689?s=20

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 16 Apr 2020, 01:41 pm
Hi Folks

Gary Dayton is our resident expert on all things SP4 and he will be the best person to answer going forward.

I know there are things in the works.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Apr 2020, 01:56 pm
Will Gary be able to soon stop by and answer the outstanding questions?

I had a number and with Witchdoctor pointing out Storm's latest release which I can only assume applies to their new MK2 platforms with new HDMI eARC boards. It remains to be seen if Bryston will follow the development path, if not they would be pre-MK2 thus anything discussed from Storm as to additions and updates from now on would be irrelevant to the SP4 as it's already been left behind with the MK1 hardware, OS and HDMI board.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 16 Apr 2020, 02:30 pm
Will Gary be able to soon stop by and answer the outstanding questions?

I had a number and with Witchdoctor pointing out Storm's latest release which I can only assume applies to their new MK2 platforms with new HDMI eARC boards. It remains to be seen if Bryston will follow the development path, if not they would be pre-MK2 thus anything discussed from Storm as to additions and updates from now on would be irrelevant to the SP4 as it's already been left behind with the MK1 hardware, OS and HDMI board.

Hi Rod

Do you have our SP4?

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 16 Apr 2020, 02:43 pm
No I don't.

As I've mentioned I'm not about to drop a small fortune, at least for me, over $20k here in Canada on a product with no clear product path. Do I want it, most likely at least what Storm offers as it's considerably less expensive than the Trinnov. If there was a Storm dealer locally I wouldn't be monitoring so closely the SP4 as I would be focused on the actual Storm product but with no Storm dealers and a local Bryston dealer I have easy access to locally purchase it and a dealer to provide support.

Both Storm and Trinnov are continually focused on the present and future and are constantly bringing updates to the products to keep them on the cutting edge and for my hard earned $20k that's what I want to see.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 16 Apr 2020, 02:59 pm
No I don't.

As I've mentioned I'm not about to drop a small fortune, at least for me, over $20k here in Canada on a product with no clear product path. Do I want it, most likely at least what Storm offers as it's considerably less expensive than the Trinnov. If there was a Storm dealer locally I wouldn't be monitoring so closely the SP4 as I would be focused on the actual Storm product but with no Storm dealers and a local Bryston dealer I have easy access to locally purchase it and a dealer to provide support.

Both Storm and Trinnov are continually focused on the present and future and are constantly bringing updates to the products to keep them on the cutting edge and for my hard earned $20k that's what I want to see.

Hi Rod,,

Well we are working hand in hand with Storm so I would assume we would be offering the updates as they come along but after a few months as they will keep new updates proprietary for 6 months or so I believe.

Also we plan on offering some updates of our own going forward - EX DAC section.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 17 Apr 2020, 01:01 pm
Thanks

A 6 month delay would be a bummer but certainly something I could live with if it meant the SP4 was guaranteed to get everything the Storm units receive. I've been getting some info in regards to the Storm's current capabilities and it's great and with the upcoming planned firmware updates it just keeps getting better.

With the SP4 platform though am I correct in stating it's officially locked at 16 channels and Bryston will not be offering hardware upgrades to allow it to expand to 24 and 32 channels like the Storm units? If so that would be the biggest decision a potential customer would have to make as to which direction to go, Storm or Bryston because if a customer needed or expected to need beyond 16 channels they would have to go Storm, or Trinnov as those would be the only 2 offering so many channels. I actually think the Trinnov32 can now be expanded to 48 channels
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 17 Apr 2020, 01:06 pm
Thanks

A 6 month delay would be a bummer but certainly something I could live with if it meant the SP4 was guaranteed to get everything the Storm units receive. I've been getting some info in regards to the Storm's current capabilities and it's great and with the upcoming planned firmware updates it just keeps getting better.

With the SP4 platform though am I correct in stating it's officially locked at 16 channels and Bryston will not be offering hardware upgrades to allow it to expand to 24 and 32 channels like the Storm units? If so that would be the biggest decision a potential customer would have to make as to which direction to go, Storm or Bryston because if a customer needed or expected to need beyond 16 channels they would have to go Storm, or Trinnov as those would be the only 2 offering so many channels. I actually think the Trinnov32 can now be expanded to 48 channels

Hi Rod

Correct  I do not see us moving beyond 16 channels and most of our customers do not  install systems beyond an ATMOS setup and many opt for 5.1.  I think our updates going forward will be geared more towards adding 2 channel performance features such as 2 channel analog bypass and 2 channel DAC upgrades etc..

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 17 Apr 2020, 01:31 pm
Thanks

When would you expect to be able to publish the price lists for upgrades for current SP4 owners who want to move to the MK2 platform and the new HDMI eARC board as well as and I'm assuming this would need to be a new product offering actual SP4 MK2's for those like myself who would want to avoid the hardware upgrade hassle and just jump in with an actual MK chassis from the very beginning?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 17 Apr 2020, 02:55 pm
Thanks

When would you expect to be able to publish the price lists for upgrades for current SP4 owners who want to move to the MK2 platform and the new HDMI eARC board as well as and I'm assuming this would need to be a new product offering actual SP4 MK2's for those like myself who would want to avoid the hardware upgrade hassle and just jump in with an actual MK chassis from the very beginning?

Hi Rod

I think Gary is working on that now but to be honest I do not know of any customers that have asked about upgrades so far.  I will ask him if he can give us an update.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 17 Apr 2020, 04:17 pm
That would be great, thanks.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 21 Apr 2020, 10:18 pm
Hi Rod

I think Gary is working on that now but to be honest I do not know of any customers that have asked about upgrades so far.  I will ask him if he can give us an update.

james

The reason none of your customers ask about an upgrade for the SP4 is that it was purchased because they wanted ATMOS, not two channel sound. The SP3 is for those who want two channel. So I'd stick to the company's plan.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Apr 2020, 12:16 am
Hi Rod

Correct  I do not see us moving beyond 16 channels and most of our customers do not  install systems beyond an ATMOS setup and many opt for 5.1.  I think our updates going forward will be geared more towards adding 2 channel performance features such as 2 channel analog bypass and 2 channel DAC upgrades etc..

james

I get it, this is a piece for customers who want two channel first, Atmos second, and 16 channel third, is that right?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: witchdoctor on 22 Apr 2020, 03:30 am
I think that makes sense from a differentiation standpoint. It will be tougher from an engineering standpoint. I like how Nuprime had one of their top of the line dacs integrated with the their processor. You figure why buy the DAC when you can get the processor with the DAC included inside.
Where I REALLY think the SP4 could knock it out of the park is when you use Bryston Active speakers and eliminate the BAX-1 unit and run the DSP through the SP4.
I have all active speakers in my immersive HT and it is a home run out of the park. For an SP4 active setup I would do 5 active mini T's as base channels and then 4 TOW on walls with a traditional amp as height channels. I find the rear speakers as a nice to have not a need to have in an immersive theater. 
You find the height speakers used all the time, the rear speakers maybe 10% of the time that you can actually notice them during a movie. Again nice to have, not need to have.

As for the focus on two channel I guess that would help Bryston stand out against Trinnov.

Personally I prefer Auromatic upmixing to 2 channel so it would be better to get the Storm path of upgrades like the new HDMI card.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 22 Apr 2020, 11:30 am
I think that makes sense from a differentiation standpoint. It will be tougher from an engineering standpoint. I like how Nuprime had one of their top of the line dacs integrated with the their processor. You figure why buy the DAC when you can get the processor with the DAC included inside.
Where I REALLY think the SP4 could knock it out of the park is when you use Bryston Active speakers and eliminate the BAX-1 unit and run the DSP through the SP4.
I have all active speakers in my immersive HT and it is a home run out of the park. For an SP4 active setup I would do 5 active mini T's as base channels and then 4 TOW on walls with a traditional amp as height channels. I find the rear speakers as a nice to have not a need to have in an immersive theater. 
You find the height speakers used all the time, the rear speakers maybe 10% of the time that you can actually notice them during a movie. Again nice to have, not need to have.

As for the focus on two channel I guess that would help Bryston stand out against Trinnov.

Personally I prefer Auromatic upmixing to 2 channel so it would be better to get the Storm path of upgrades like the new HDMI card.

Hi WD

We already have a setting to use the SP4 with our active speakers.  In fact we did that at a show last year.  Seems to work quite well.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: MarvinTheMartian on 11 May 2020, 11:27 am
James :
Any Dirac Live Bass Control trials yet?
Subwoofer 2 mains crossover optimization , this is where automatic room correction should really shine.
There is a lot more to subwoofer integration than simply setting speaker distances and a X-over frequency.

Shawn
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 11 May 2020, 11:33 am
James :
Any Dirac Live Bass Control trials yet?
Subwoofer 2 mains crossover optimization , this is where automatic room correction should really shine.
There is a lot more to subwoofer integration than simply setting speaker distances and a X-over frequency.

Shawn

Hi Shawn

I know Gary is putting together an update on the SP-4 which he should post soon.

I agree that bass control can help as long as you keep it below 100Hz or so.  Also do not under any conditions try and boost low frequencies.  Just reduce the peaks.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 22 May 2020, 05:19 pm
I am also patiently waiting on definitive SP4 update info. Specifically plans for HDMI upgrade path. Will it be the Storm MK2 solution or whatever MDS comes up with to replace the HSR-72Q?

Thanks, Al
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 28 Aug 2020, 05:26 pm
It's been just over 3 months now since the last post here waiting for update info.

Is there anything that can be shared?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Extreman on 16 Sep 2020, 10:54 pm
It's been just over 3 months now since the last post here waiting for update info.

Is there anything that can be shared?
I guess the silence sums it up.....
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 17 Sep 2020, 01:12 am
Unfortunately that seems to be the case.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 7 Apr 2021, 02:12 pm
I remember a while back how witchdoctor use to ask if the SP4 would get VRR, ALLM and 2.1 in general for gaming. Actually, 2.1 was invented primarily for 8k. I have since purchased a Sony A9G television, and now I understand his concern. But, even the TV manufacturers are trying to iron out the new gaming features in 2021. So, why would one expect Bryston to take the lead and iron out and fix these new features. Some expect too much from Bryston. Too bad. 
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 7 Apr 2021, 03:10 pm
It's not really a problem for Bryston to solve as it relates to HDMI 2.1 since they don't build their own boards. In the case of the SP4, I believe that is MDS, I think that's who made the boards for the now essentially obsolete (not in the truest sense of the word but it's an outdated product none the less) Storm MK 1 platform which is what the SP4 is based on. With Storm having already moved to the MK 2 platform and also brining in a new partner for HDMI boards, moving away from MDS, with no future plan for the SP 4 announced by Bryston it's certainly looking like the SP4 would be stuck with what it has. I'm not sure if the old MK 1 platforms will be compatible with the new HDMI boards in the works at Storm. Also with Storm moving away from MDS it then may be up to Bryston to take the lead if they wish to continue to use MDS boards if they ever intend the SP4 platform to have HDMI 2.1.

The Sony A9G, that's a prior year OLED isn't it? If so it's 4k, not 8k and the gaming features on it are gimped to say the least with it not being HDMI 2.1 so for you at the moment HDMI 2.1 is irrelevant. Even the new Sony's this year are a joke for HDMI 2.1 implementation as they only have 2 inputs, one of which is eArc so any gamer having more than 1 gaming source has to manually unplug one gaming device and plug in another if they are taking advantage of eArch for any streaming services built into the tv. Also Sony has yet to implement VRR. But again, coming back to the Bryston situation, Sony, unlike LG and Samsung do not make their own HDMI boards and are at the mercy of the features built into the boards they do purchase, for Sony I believe it's mediatek and there is no guarantee Mediatek will ever be able to iron out the VR issues.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 7 Apr 2021, 06:18 pm

The Sony A9G, that's a prior year OLED isn't it? If so it's 4k, not 8k and the gaming features on it are gimped to say the least with it not being HDMI 2.1 so for you at the moment HDMI 2.1 is irrelevant. Even the new Sony's this year are a joke for HDMI 2.1 implementation as they only have 2 inputs, one of which is eArc so any gamer having more than 1 gaming source has to manually unplug one gaming device and plug in another if they are taking advantage of eArch for any streaming services built into the tv. Also Sony has yet to implement VRR. But again, coming back to the Bryston situation, Sony, unlike LG and Samsung do not make their own HDMI boards and are at the mercy of the features built into the boards they do purchase, for Sony I believe it's mediatek and there is no guarantee Mediatek will ever be able to iron out the VR issues.

The A9G is a 2019 model that I purchased the August 2020. I could have purchased a Sony OLED 2.1 television, but I opted for the A9G for its aesthetics alone in that its stand is flush to the table its on. Plus, I don't plan on getting an 8k TV anytime soon as this is what HDMI 2.1 was designed for primarily. Also, even if I was into gaming, the A9G is fine with its HDMI 2.0b as the PS-5 was designed so that 4k @ 60fps can play through it and the Sony A9G can play 4k@60fps but not @120 fps which I don't think there are any videos for that frame rate.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 7 Apr 2021, 07:01 pm
As you are a non gamer and even if you were a casual gamer you made a good purchase. Only the discerning more hard core gamers would be after 4k120, VRR, etc. There are many games that support 4k120, particularly on PC. The Xbox Series X and PS5 although offer 120Hz on some games, the graphics take a hit knocking what would be a 4k120 game to 1440@120 or less in order to hit 120fps.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 8 Apr 2021, 02:41 pm
As you are a non gamer and even if you were a casual gamer you made a good purchase. Only the discerning more hard core gamers would be after 4k120, VRR, etc. There are many games that support 4k120, particularly on PC. The Xbox Series X and PS5 although offer 120Hz on some games, the graphics take a hit knocking what would be a 4k120 game to 1440@120 or less in order to hit 120fps.

Thanks Rod. I hate to admit it but I have been watching more television, especially youTube, than listening to music since I purchased the 65A9G.  :oops:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 3 Nov 2021, 04:02 pm
James or Gary, any new news on SP4 upgrades (HDMI or ???), or any other new collaboration work with Storm Audio? I just noticed that Storm Audio has released the new ISP Core 16 at $11,999 US.

Thanks,  Al

Current 3.0 system - Bryston SP3, Bryston PowerPac 300 x 3, Dynaudio Confidence 5 pair, Dynaudio Excite x28 center, Apple TV 4K, ancient 1080p Samsung TV.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 3 Nov 2021, 09:16 pm
James or Gary, any new news on SP4 upgrades (HDMI or ???), or any other new collaboration work with Storm Audio? I just noticed that Storm Audio has released the new ISP Core 16 at $11,999 US.

Thanks,  Al

Current 3.0 system - Bryston SP3, Bryston PowerPac 300 x 3, Dynaudio Confidence 5 pair, Dynaudio Excite x28 center, Apple TV 4K, ancient 1080p Samsung TV.

Hi

No I am sorry Storm has not contacted us with any thoughts moving forward.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 4 Nov 2021, 12:56 pm
Could that possibly be because you don't offer a model based on their current product? i.e. ISP MK2 equivalent

Or that I don't believe you offered the upgrade option for the MK1 (i.e. SP4) to bring it up to what they called the MK1.5?

To me it seems that if you weren't keeping lock step with their ongoing hardware and software upgrades they wouldn't set aside resources to continue to support a more legacy type product because I believe like Bryston they are a rather small company vs say the giants like Denon, Yamaha, etc.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 4 Nov 2021, 02:34 pm
Could that possibly be because you don't offer a model based on their current product? i.e. ISP MK2 equivalent

Or that I don't believe you offered the upgrade option for the MK1 (i.e. SP4) to bring it up to what they called the MK1.5?

To me it seems that if you weren't keeping lock step with their ongoing hardware and software upgrades they wouldn't set aside resources to continue to support a more legacy type product because I believe like Bryston they are a rather small company vs say the giants like Denon, Yamaha, etc.

Hi Rod

I think they feel that they would loose sales to us from their own brand if we had the most current feature sets of their units.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 5 Nov 2021, 06:26 pm
All due respect, but without a guarantee of ongoing support/upgrade path why would anyone buy an SP4 new or used?

Al
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 5 Nov 2021, 07:40 pm
All due respect, but without a guarantee of ongoing support/upgrade path why would anyone buy an SP4 new or used?

Al

I think they will support the current units in the field.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 10 Nov 2021, 12:23 pm
So with clearly no interest from Storm in pulling Bryston forward and at some point the inevitable is going to happen, they will no longer support the MK1 platform, do you foresee the discontinuation of the SP4 in the near or not to distant future?

Have you given any thought of partnering with Trinnov? JBL Synthesis has been one of their partners for years now and I believe Trinnov sees that the JBL units receive the latest updates and also Trinnov allows JBL to run their own proprietary EQ software so like you had been hoping to do with the SP4 eventually and add in your own DAC section Trinnov may be a much better fit for Bryston as your player in the high-end home theater market who allow you to make your own tweaks to the unit.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 10 Nov 2021, 01:25 pm
So with clearly no interest from Storm in pulling Bryston forward and at some point the inevitable is going to happen, they will no longer support the MK1 platform, do you foresee the discontinuation of the SP4 in the near or not to distant future?

Have you given any thought of partnering with Trinnov? JBL Synthesis has been one of their partners for years now and I believe Trinnov sees that the JBL units receive the latest updates and also Trinnov allows JBL to run their own proprietary EQ software so like you had been hoping to do with the SP4 eventually and add in your own DAC section Trinnov may be a much better fit for Bryston as your player in the high-end home theater market who allow you to make your own tweaks to the unit.

Hi Rod

Yes certainly something to consider given no response from Storm

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 30 Nov 2021, 09:03 pm
I say get an SP3 and be done with it. I still think Atmos is more hype than anything as folks do not hear object base in real life. Besides, Atmos is already in the embryonic stage of being replaced by Imax Enhanced. I stopped chasing codecs with the SP3. From this I have added the BDP/BDA3 and the BP2 mm/mc phone preamp. 
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 1 Dec 2021, 12:58 am
To each their own I guess. For me there is no comparing object based surround using height channels and at least 7 bed channels to simply 7 bed channels, what object based delivers is just so far beyond standard bed channels it's incredible and I was a definite skeptic before I heard it done right. And done right means true height speakers and bed speakers in proper setup and alignment and none of the gimmicky sound bars that "do surround" :) or speakers with upfiring drivers built into their tops. Those approaches are complete garbage in my opinion when compared to a proper setup but if space and budget are the constraints they are better than nothin but in that case I would recommend just a good ole proper 5.1 setup.

One could argue the same for anymore using 2 channel matrixing of music as well to expand to 5 or 7 channels as being unnatural and a waste of money so that argument applies to the SP3 for what it can do with 2 channel sources. It just comes down to personal choice

Imax enhanced will not replace Atmos, Imax enhanced is basically dts:X because it exists within dts:X container so at best IMax enhanced will live along side dts: X and Dolby Atmos with Dolby Atmos continuing to reign supreme due to wide spread adoption during the age of 4K Blu-ray's.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 4 Dec 2021, 06:33 pm
Delete
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 4 Dec 2021, 06:36 pm

Hello Rod. I agree, to each his own. But, ask yourself, when is the last time you have heard "object based" in the real world? For me, never. Everything I hear is in the horizontal plane. Even if an airplane or helicopter flies above, the sound is low frequency and omnipresent. I live near Cherry Point Marine Air Station, so I am quite familiar with airplane and helicopter noise. Even with rain, you don't hear it until it hits the ground. I heard ATMOS done "right" in a high end audio store, and I was not impressed with the "bubble of sound" and I thought it sounded gimmicky as if I was in some sound chamber. ATMOS does not mimmic reality. If I had to speculate, I feel Dolby came up with ATMOS to compete with the better sounding codec, DTS. To me, a high end processor like the SP3 with superior electronics, and the right rear speakers, make ATMOS unnecessary.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: NekoAudio on 4 Dec 2021, 08:52 pm
Hello Rod. I agree, to each his own. But, ask yourself, when is the last time you have heard "object based" in the real world? For me, never. Everything I hear is in the horizontal plane. Even if an airplane or helicopter flies above, the sound is low frequency and omnipresent.
That sounds very odd to me. You should be able to localize when a sound is coming from above you or below you. That's the way our brain interprets the way sound waves change as they hit our auricle (the outside fleshy part of your ear) and then travel in, added to the time differential between your two ears. When you hear an airplane or helicopter fly above do you actually hear it as if it is flying past you down at ground level? Personally I hear all sound as "object based" in the real world.

Also, even with all your speakers in the horizontal plane, object-based sound encoding still applies. For example if you have your left main speaker at 30° off your directly-facing axis, and your left surround at 15° off your left-facing axis (i.e. to the left of your seat but also a little bit behind). But the sound engineer based the mix off the left surround being 0° off your left-facing axis (i.e. directly to the left of your seat). By remapping the sound to use both your left main and left surround speaker, with the appropriate changes in timing, the sound will properly localize to directly left of your seat. Without object-based encoding and remapping, the sound will instead come from only the left surround and be incorrectly positioned a little behind you.

Probably the most valid test of this is video gaming in a surround sound setup, with or without overhead/height speakers. Since the sound effects are artificially generated based on the exact position of other objects, players, and enemies in the game, proper localization allows you to immediately identify the location and react by accurately and precisely turning your "head" in the game to the place the sound was created. This is obviously a significant advantage in some games, so gamers will invest in good sound for this reason. If you haven't experienced this yourself, or you're not a gamer, you can still see this if you watch some YouTube or Twitch videos that show this happening. There was a recent brouhaha over one player who some people thought was cheating because he knew exactly where some other players were, but the final consensus was that he was just precisely locating them from the game sounds.

In some setups, Atmos may sound strange or a bit off-sounding. There are, for example, Atmos-enabled laptop speakers. It can make a big difference in the presentation (and I would argue accuracy) of the soundstage presented by the laptop speakers, but it can also sound very strange because it's not at all what one is expecting from laptop speakers. One of those things you'd need to get used to. Also, Atmos can sound strange if the processor doesn't have the correct knowledge of the speaker locations (assuming the room acoustics are not a significant issue, and the speakers are timbre-matched) because then the mapping can be incorrect. For processors that don't localize the speakers, you do need to approximate a speaker position standard which the processor then assumes you are using.

In my experience, Atmos does get you closer to the actual sound of reality, the same way surround speakers do over 2-channel. And should allow the sound engineers to worry less about what an end user's speaker setup and arrangement might be, and only worry about where sounds should be located. If you want to hear a guaranteed correct deployment of Atmos, a Dolby Atmos theater run by Dolby would do that. It could be there isn't one near to you or available to you though. Visiting an Atmos theater run by one of the cinema chains may be more of a hit-or-miss proposition.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 8 Dec 2021, 03:38 pm
That sounds very odd to me. You should be able to localize when a sound is coming from above you or below you. That's the way our brain interprets the way sound waves change as they hit our auricle (the outside fleshy part of your ear) and then travel in, added to the time differential between your two ears. When you hear an airplane or helicopter fly above do you actually hear it as if it is flying past you down at ground level? Personally I hear all sound as "object based" in the real world.

Also, even with all your speakers in the horizontal plane, object-based sound encoding still applies. For example if you have your left main speaker at 30° off your directly-facing axis, and your left surround at 15° off your left-facing axis (i.e. to the left of your seat but also a little bit behind). But the sound engineer based the mix off the left surround being 0° off your left-facing axis (i.e. directly to the left of your seat). By remapping the sound to use both your left main and left surround speaker, with the appropriate changes in timing, the sound will properly localize to directly left of your seat. Without object-based encoding and remapping, the sound will instead come from only the left surround and be incorrectly positioned a little behind you.

Probably the most valid test of this is video gaming in a surround sound setup, with or without overhead/height speakers. Since the sound effects are artificially generated based on the exact position of other objects, players, and enemies in the game, proper localization allows you to immediately identify the location and react by accurately and precisely turning your "head" in the game to the place the sound was created. This is obviously a significant advantage in some games, so gamers will invest in good sound for this reason. If you haven't experienced this yourself, or you're not a gamer, you can still see this if you watch some YouTube or Twitch videos that show this happening. There was a recent brouhaha over one player who some people thought was cheating because he knew exactly where some other players were, but the final consensus was that he was just precisely locating them from the game sounds.

In some setups, Atmos may sound strange or a bit off-sounding. There are, for example, Atmos-enabled laptop speakers. It can make a big difference in the presentation (and I would argue accuracy) of the soundstage presented by the laptop speakers, but it can also sound very strange because it's not at all what one is expecting from laptop speakers. One of those things you'd need to get used to. Also, Atmos can sound strange if the processor doesn't have the correct knowledge of the speaker locations (assuming the room acoustics are not a significant issue, and the speakers are timbre-matched) because then the mapping can be incorrect. For processors that don't localize the speakers, you do need to approximate a speaker position standard which the processor then assumes you are using.

In my experience, Atmos does get you closer to the actual sound of reality, the same way surround speakers do over 2-channel. And should allow the sound engineers to worry less about what an end user's speaker setup and arrangement might be, and only worry about where sounds should be located. If you want to hear a guaranteed correct deployment of Atmos, a Dolby Atmos theater run by Dolby would do that. It could be there isn't one near to you or available to you though. Visiting an Atmos theater run by one of the cinema chains may be more of a hit-or-miss proposition.

If I spent the time, money and effort to get Atmess in my home theater, I'd defend it too, I guess. I use to work in the audio industry as a salesman so I know a gimmick when I hear it. Your comments to me reads as if you are trying to convince yourself you are hearing a realistic sound. But, the argument is unconvincing to me whether its in a theater of home. Sorry.  :nono: I will stick with my 7.1 SP3 delivering superior fidelity.  8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 9 Dec 2021, 02:40 am
Hello Rod. I agree, to each his own. But, ask yourself, when is the last time you have heard "object based" in the real world? For me, never. Everything I hear is in the horizontal plane. Even if an airplane or helicopter flies above, the sound is low frequency and omnipresent. I live near Cherry Point Marine Air Station, so I am quite familiar with airplane and helicopter noise. Even with rain, you don't hear it until it hits the ground. I heard ATMOS done "right" in a high end audio store, and I was not impressed with the "bubble of sound" and I thought it sounded gimmicky as if I was in some sound chamber. ATMOS does not mimmic reality. If I had to speculate, I feel Dolby came up with ATMOS to compete with the better sounding codec, DTS. To me, a high end processor like the SP3 with superior electronics, and the right rear speakers, make ATMOS unnecessary.

Hi,

Let's face it, everything we are hearing out of our speakers is artificial i.e. the actual object is not there nor is it in the original source location or environment. But what you are saying about airplanes and helicopters makes no sense. We can't change where our ears are located on the sides of our heads but that has nothing to do with the actual source of the sound, so the sound from the object i.e. an airplane or helicopter originates from the vehicle, in the air if it's flying or on the ground it's it's just that, on the ground. So the sound travels from the source. Similar to birds, primates or leaves rustling all up in trees for example, it's all originating from above in the real world. If the ATMOS, or dts:X or Auro 3D mix is done right and you have your system crossovers setup appropriately you would be getting the low frequency coming at you from the horizontal plane like you talk about, be that from the subs, or lower frequencies of the bed channel speakers while the mid and higher frequencies are across the height spectrum from horizontal up to the heights where they originate from and passing around you following the object from on the screen to off the screen in a simulated environment. Since height speakers are never going to be capable of any real ultra low frequency extension with authority, well not any that we can accommodate in our homes the true lower frequencies will always be coming from the bed channels even if the mix is done full range across the board for all objects because our crossovers will properly redirect that low end.

If the mix is not good and the volume level is all out of wack for the object in question then yeah it's going to sound like garbage and a gimmick really fast for sure drawing all your attention.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 9 Dec 2021, 04:55 pm
Hi,

Let's face it, everything we are hearing out of our speakers is artificial i.e. the actual object is not there nor is it in the original source location or environment. But what you are saying about airplanes and helicopters makes no sense. We can't change where our ears are located on the sides of our heads but that has nothing to do with the actual source of the sound, so the sound from the object i.e. an airplane or helicopter originates from the vehicle, in the air if it's flying or on the ground it's it's just that, on the ground. So the sound travels from the source. Similar to birds, primates or leaves rustling all up in trees for example, it's all originating from above in the real world. If the ATMOS, or dts:X or Auro 3D mix is done right and you have your system crossovers setup appropriately you would be getting the low frequency coming at you from the horizontal plane like you talk about, be that from the subs, or lower frequencies of the bed channel speakers while the mid and higher frequencies are across the height spectrum from horizontal up to the heights where they originate from and passing around you following the object from on the screen to off the screen in a simulated environment. Since height speakers are never going to be capable of any real ultra low frequency extension with authority, well not any that we can accommodate in our homes the true lower frequencies will always be coming from the bed channels even if the mix is done full range across the board for all objects because our crossovers will properly redirect that low end.

If the mix is not good and the volume level is all out of wack for the object in question then yeah it's going to sound like garbage and a gimmick really fast for sure drawing all your attention.

Hey Rod. What I am saying does make sense when you consider airplane and helicopter noise is low frequency which is non-directional and omnipresent. I don't know the physics behind it, but when planes and helicopters fly over my home, the low frequency noise is 360 degrees and you cannot tell where it is coming from. Additionally, I have been to many air shows and I have the same experience. The plane is in the air, but the sound is everywhere. In fact, I have a plethora of movies made in 7.1 with airplane and helicopter scenes and the plane or helicopter flies overhead and pans from front to rear quite effectively without the use of Atmess which is fundamentally marketing hype in my opinion. Again, my SP3 is just fine. :)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 9 Dec 2021, 05:10 pm
Ron, check out the video below.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjk7uLBmtf0AhWhqXIEHR8kDkQ4ChC3AnoECAkQAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNx4vve3UGUg&usg=AOvVaw0ug_aAVQ_qEYcL7jLhkhg4
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 10 Dec 2021, 09:39 pm
Rod, your comments about up firing speakers got me curious so I called some local dealers and none had demo setups with up firing speakers. Of two dealers that I have purchased from and appreciate their opinions, one said that up firing speakers can add something to the emersion effects but are nothing like ceiling mounted speakers, the other one just came right out and said do not waste your money on up firing speakers. Having said that I do have a true dolby atmos theater near me and plan on going to check it out once the new Matrix movie gets released later this month.  :popcorn:  Al
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 20 Jan 2022, 05:57 pm
So with clearly no interest from Storm in pulling Bryston forward and at some point the inevitable is going to happen, they will no longer support the MK1 platform, do you foresee the discontinuation of the SP4 in the near or not to distant future?

Have you given any thought of partnering with Trinnov? JBL Synthesis has been one of their partners for years now and I believe Trinnov sees that the JBL units receive the latest updates and also Trinnov allows JBL to run their own proprietary EQ software so like you had been hoping to do with the SP4 eventually and add in your own DAC section Trinnov may be a much better fit for Bryston as your player in the high-end home theater market who allow you to make your own tweaks to the unit.

I currently own both an SP3 and a Trinnov Altitude 16. My listening space is my living room. Aerial 7T's up front with a 7C center, and two in-ceiling speakers for surround. My source is a Kaleidescape for video. For music I use Roon. With the SP3, I used a Bryston BDP2/BDA2 for music. With the Trinnov, Roon is built-in.

In my experience, if you do not have a treated listening space, the Trinnov is a clear winner for movies. I find the difference to be clearly noticible and impactful. Speach is clearer, sound effects are more distinct and better located, etc.

For music, it isn't as easy. The Trinnov again does a better job of making instruments distinct. I heard things clearer than before. However, there was a loss of empty space between instruments, if that makes sense? As someone else clearly explained to me, the Bryston is "more musical".

From an ease of use point of view, the Trinnov (as the far newer product) is infinitely easier to use. It's like old stick shift transmissions vs modern paddle shift automatics.

For me, the Holy Grail would be a Bryston designed SP5 that was an update of the SP3. New DACs, Bryston's amazing analog section and sound, and some form of room correction that can be disabled per input, and ideally customized per input. As James has said, maybe bass only correction, etc.

Unfortunately, we watched the SP4 lagnuish. Bryston never customized the SP4 at all, to the best of my knowledge. And it seems unlikely they will proceed down that route. As someone who can only have one system, I'll need to make that choice between music and movies, which makes me sad. I remember when I discovered the SP3 and was new to Bryston. I thought I had surely found the Grail. And at the time, I had!

It appears there was only ever to be one Grail. Choose wisely (which will be different for each of us, depending on preferences, room configuration, equipment, and type of use).

- Garrett
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 21 Jan 2022, 02:13 am
I currently own both an SP3 and a Trinnov Altitude 16. My listening space is my living room. Aerial 7T's up front with a 7C center, and two in-ceiling speakers for surround. My source is a Kaleidescape for video. For music I use Roon. With the SP3, I used a Bryston BDP2/BDA2 for music. With the Trinnov, Roon is built-in.

In my experience, if you do not have a treated listening space, the Trinnov is a clear winner for movies. I find the difference to be clearly noticible and impactful. Speach is clearer, sound effects are more distinct and better located, etc.

For music, it isn't as easy. The Trinnov again does a better job of making instruments distinct. I heard things clearer than before. However, there was a loss of empty space between instruments, if that makes sense? As someone else clearly explained to me, the Bryston is "more musical".

From an ease of use point of view, the Trinnov (as the far newer product) is infinitely easier to use. It's like old stick shift transmissions vs modern paddle shift automatics.

For me, the Holy Grail would be a Bryston designed SP5 that was an update of the SP3. New DACs, Bryston's amazing analog section and sound, and some form of room correction that can be disabled per input, and ideally customized per input. As James has said, maybe bass only correction, etc.

Unfortunately, we watched the SP4 lagnuish. Bryston never customized the SP4 at all, to the best of my knowledge. And it seems unlikely they will proceed down that route. As someone who can only have one system, I'll need to make that choice between music and movies, which makes me sad. I remember when I discovered the SP3 and was new to Bryston. I thought I had surely found the Grail. And at the time, I had!

It appears there was only ever to be one Grail. Choose wisely (which will be different for each of us, depending on preferences, room configuration, equipment, and type of use).

- Garrett

Just lets you know Jame Tanner was right about Room Correction.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Grit on 21 Jan 2022, 08:08 am
For music, yes. But I'd take the improvements for movies ANY day over none.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 27 Jan 2022, 01:46 am
Hi James, anything new to report or anything in the works to be able to continue on with this product? Any possible replacement in the works which will be properly supported going forward via consistent and frequent firmware updates especially if once again partnering with another manufacturer?

Thanks
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 27 Jan 2022, 01:55 am
Hi James, anything new to report or anything in the works to be able to continue on with this product? Any possible replacement in the works which will be properly supported going forward via consistent and frequent firmware updates especially if once again partnering with another manufacturer?

Thanks

Hi Rod,

It is really up in the air as the parts shortages are affecting any updates so I am not sure what the future holds for the SP4.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Testsystems on 7 Feb 2022, 04:40 pm
Hi James,

My two cents worth.  With the introduction of Spacial music ( Dolby Atmos) I replaced my SP2, which I still have with a new Anthem AVM70 ( $4500 cdn).  The addition of height channels was appreciated but the sound is disappointing compared to the dynamics of the SP2.  The SP4 is out of my price range.  But I would love to see an SP5 along the lines of the SP3 just updated for newer codecs.   For those  with smaller rooms / low ceilings I still think you can’t beat the SP2 or SP3 for sound quality. 

Cheers
Drew
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 8 Feb 2022, 05:37 pm
Hi James,

My two cents worth.  With the introduction of Spacial music ( Dolby Atmos) I replaced my SP2, which I still have with a new Anthem AVM70 ( $4500 cdn).  The addition of height channels was appreciated but the sound is disappointing compared to the dynamics of the SP2.  The SP4 is out of my price range.  But I would love to see an SP5 along the lines of the SP3 just updated for newer codecs.   For those  with smaller rooms / low ceilings I still think you can’t beat the SP2 or SP3 for sound quality. 

Cheers
Drew

Had you considered waiting for the Anthem AVM90 with the upgraded DACs and circuitry? Sound wise it might be more what you expected in comparison for the old SP2. Not sure about the DACs in the AVM70, isn't the 70 just a MRX1140 without the amps?? but the DACs in the AVM90 would be superior to those in the SP2 and most likely the SP3 at this point given the SP3's age now.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Testsystems on 8 Feb 2022, 06:03 pm
Hi Rod,

Yes I am sure the AVM90 will be an improvement, but in November it was not available. At the time Technical information from Anthem on its availability and design improvements was very limited.  Based on looking at the website just now is still says available winter 2022.  Only time will tell.  The intension with the post was to show that the SP2 & SP3 are still excellent audiophile components worthy of serious consideration and point a direction for a future "TBD" SP5.   

Cheers Drew
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 9 Feb 2022, 02:46 pm
Yeah the AVM90 has had a long hard road to release, originally supposed to have AKM AK4499EQ DACs apparently but with the AKM factory burning down in Japan resulting in a worldwide chip shortage they had to pivot to ESS SABRE ES9038Pro, arguably a better DAC. The DACs in the AVM70's had to be switched as well. But as you mention specific details have been few and far between and release windows keep shifting. At some point specs are going to have to get released so potential customers can see why the unit costs twice the price of the AVM70 while only offering 2 additional sub outs and seemingly nothing more besides the known DAC upgrade. Well apparently it's supposed to ship with the new HDMI 2.1 board while the board will remain an optional upgrade for the AVM70??? if so I guess that would also account for some of the price difference. In my opinion Anthem should have licensed Auro3D for the AVM90 plus added 1, if not 2 AES/EBU inputs plus one set, if not 2 sets of balanced audio inputs plus a dedicated USB audio input. Things like that would more easily set it apart from the AVM70 in the eyes of consumers.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 9 Feb 2022, 03:06 pm
The first time I heard ATMOS was in a high end shop featuring the Anthem AVM70. With me owning the SP3, I thought the sound was steely, fatiguing and gimmicky. It sounded very Japanese like the older processors I've owned. The Anthem AVM 90 is a feature rich processor featuring a phono input, room correction, blue tooth, and the like. You should not expect it to perform on the level of the Bryston SP3 or 4. You cannot expect the Anthem to have balanced inputs or Bryston's proprietary analog section. You get what you pay for most times.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 9 Feb 2022, 03:49 pm
The AVM90 is not in the same league as the Storm ISP MK series (Bryston SP4) and as such would never have the capabilities of that platform, regarding to speaker layouts particularly.

Concerning the DAC, the AVM90 DAC should be a better performer than the DAC in the SP3 given the SP3's age, last I seen discussion that DAC was the Crystal CS4398 I believe however it may have been updated since then. That was discussed way back when the BDA-2 was around and people were asking for comparisons and at the time the BDA-2 had the AK4399 I believe. It's entirely possible the current SP3's have moved to a more modern DAC though. Heck if the SP3's now have the same DAC as say the BDA-3 then major kudos to Bryston.

The main analog section with the exception of the DAC is a moot point in a comparison to the AVM90 (or most SSPs for that matter) as most people run a digital input into their SSP's and the signal remains in the digital domain until the output where it's then the DACs that come into play. If the SP3 DACs have been updated over the years then I suspect the DACs in the SP3 may actually be of a higher quality than the SP4 but not as good as that being used in the AVM90. I say that because it's my understanding that the uber high end units like the Storm MK series and Trinnov Altitude series are not currently running the highest end DACs, apparently an annoyance to some owners :) and I can understand that given the price of those units.

Now on the other hand for those running analog into their SSPs and don't do things like matrixing a stereo signal into a 7.1 output via Dolby PLIIx, dts Neo, etc. or are sending an analog 5.1/7.1 signal in and running in bypass then the Bryston SP3 (not the SP4) may very well have the advantage over most SSPs as that was a primary focus of it's design. Most modern SSP's are focused on an all digital signal path until the output with some units i.e. the Storm and Trinnov units even offering digital outs for users that have systems that can accommodate that.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 9 Feb 2022, 04:37 pm
Forgot to mention for reference, I believe the DACs in the BDA-3 are the AKM 4490EQ
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 9 Feb 2022, 04:47 pm
I don't know Rod. You seem to think the D/A converter is the most important part of the SP-3 design. I don't. Remember, that the SP3 in particular was designed to be used as a "hub" for an audio system. One can add a phono pre-amp as well as a new D/A converter by adding the BDA-3 to the SP3 which is what I have done. As a matter of fact, the SP3 D/A converters was designed around surround performance, not 2 channel. With no room correction or gimmicks, I see the SP-3 as a purist pre-amp processor. I have even added the BDP-3 digital player and I use both the AES outputs as well as the BNC.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 9 Feb 2022, 05:14 pm
For sure, DAC alone is not the sole source of audio fidelity in a unit, everything contributes to it. Your usage of an outboard DAC doesn't really help to spread the gospel of how good the SP3 is :) but I understand what you are saying about how good the SP3 is. Outboard DACs like the BDA-3 can be used in conjunction with any SSP however the ability to connect the BDA-3 to a SP-3 is nothing unique or proprietary.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 9 Feb 2022, 07:43 pm
Outboard DACs like the BDA-3 can be used in conjunction with any SSP however the ability to connect the BDA-3 to a SP-3 is nothing unique or proprietary.

The synergy between the SP-3, the BDA-3 and the BDP-3 is simply phenomenal. I can even play my own DSD files through the BDA-3 using the BDP-3. I use the SP-3 mostly as a switching device and for movies. Again, I enjoy the synergy between them.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: PascalP on 11 Feb 2022, 11:04 am
Hi all, new member to this forum and someone on the AVS forum recommended me to check here for some questions I have with my SP4 :)

So as a short introduction I have been owning the SP4 for 9 months or something now and I absolutely love it! Huge step up from my previous processor.
Paired it with some Parasound amps and MK sound speakers in a 7.4.2 dedicated room.

But I have some questions, I have forwarded them to my dealer, who asked the distributor, who asked Bryston which gave some answers, mailed them back but no reply yet so perhaps just try my luck here on the forums and I see James frequenting quite often as well in this thread so perhaps that might help as well :)

So basically I have 3 questions:
1. How about the monitoring license? It comes included by default in the Storm branded units and Bryston offers it with the remote measurement kit, which I'm not interested in honestly, just want the monitoring page to check internal temps, VU meters, etc.
2. Does Bryston also offer the HDMI board upgrades like Storm, or can I just drop in a Storm HDMI board like the 7+2 eARC board and will it work with the Bryston Firmware? I expect in the following year many Storm users will upgrade to the announced HDMI 2.1 board so perhaps some of the current 7+2 eARC boards will be available on the 2nd hand market?
3. Will Bryston get the 4.2 FW as well with stuff like StormXT, or will the current 4.1r1 be the last?

Thanks for your answers on this  8)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 11 Feb 2022, 11:49 am
HI Pascal - please email Adam - atanner@bryston.com

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: PascalP on 11 Feb 2022, 12:38 pm
Cheers James, will do!
Love it when a manufacturer is accessible for end customers like this  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 13 Feb 2022, 04:01 pm
Somewhere in Florida - I know not where ?


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237031)

Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: PascalP on 17 Feb 2022, 08:04 am
Oh wow! Not that is a massive stack!!  :green:

btw the email to Adam worked out great and we got in touch with the right people at Storm to deal with it, thanks!
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 21 Mar 2022, 04:10 pm
Hi PascalP. Just following up. Were your SP4 questions and issues fully resolved by Storm and Bryston?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: PascalP on 5 Apr 2022, 08:03 am
Hi PascalP. Just following up. Were your SP4 questions and issues fully resolved by Storm and Bryston?

Hi!
Yes Bryston forwared me to the right people from Storm in France and I now have a working monitoring license in the WebUI on my SP4 as well as a working IR remote :)

Pictures are not my own but from Google/Audioholics, but it works great, obviously no OSD as I don't have the newer HDMI board (yet) and the only thing that doesn't work currently are the mute button and input selection buttons but not really a big deal for me.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239244)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239245)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 6 Apr 2022, 03:48 pm
Good news. Thanks for the update. Please let us know if/when you upgrade the HDMI board and how that works out. I have been watching the used market on SP4s.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: PascalP on 7 Apr 2022, 08:35 am
Good news. Thanks for the update. Please let us know if/when you upgrade the HDMI board and how that works out. I have been watching the used market on SP4s.

Ok, managed to get the non-working buttons on the remote working, somehow I think the configuration was not saved properly so reassinging the input sources in the WebUI and the buttons are all working now besided of course the info/OSD stuff as only the StormAudio's with the latest HDMI boards support that.

As for the HDMI board upgrade, it was about €1250 and I needed to ship my unit back and forth to France to Storm but I decided not to do it as it would not bring me much in my particular case.
What it would add it eARC, which I don't use, and also it would give me dual HDMI 2.0 outputs instead of 1x 1.4 and 1x 2.0 which also doesn't add anything for my as I only have 1 display connected to it.
Only thing that I might benefit from would be somewhat faster switching/locking speed between inputs but just that wouldn't be worth the cash for me so I decided to stick with the old HDMI board which is rock solid ;)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: PascalP on 14 Oct 2022, 07:43 am
Are there any plans for updating the FW on the SP4 beyond 4.1r1?

Looks like Storm is getting some nice features and also Dirac will have some updates called Dirac’s New Spatial Room Correction Technology.

Still love my unit and it performs rock-solid and still toying in my head to update the HDMI someday to have quicker switching and locking on audio signals (hopefully?)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 14 Oct 2022, 09:20 am
HI Pascal - no I am sorry we no longer have a relationship with Storm. 

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: PascalP on 14 Oct 2022, 09:29 am
HI Pascal - no I am sorry we no longer have a relationship with Storm. 

james

Thanks for the reply James!

I'll stick with 4.1r1 then ;)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Alphonse on 21 Oct 2022, 09:33 pm
Will Storm Audio be supporting the SP4 with ongoing firmware updates?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Metal Forever on 2 Nov 2022, 12:59 am
Are there any plans for a SP5? Now that Bryston no longer has a relationship with Storm.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Nov 2022, 11:54 am
Are there any plans for a SP5? Now that Bryston no longer has a relationship with Storm.

Yes something we are considering.
We have learned during covid and some of our past relationships that being as self- sufficient as possible is the direction we are taking in the future.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: gbaby on 7 Nov 2022, 04:45 pm
Yes something we are considering.
We have learned during covid and some of our past relationships that being as self- sufficient as possible is the direction we are taking in the future.

james

I would not do it. I can see Bryston spending a couple of million building an SP5, and subsequently, a new codec appears. I would continue to market the SP3 as a state of the art Home Theater/Analog processor which one can build a high end system upon. This is what I did by starting with the SP3, then adding the BDP and BDA 3, as well as BP 20mm/mc with PS3 power supply. I am now complete with the only problem being the SP3 being able to handle eARC. This is what I would concentrate on if I were Bryston.
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Titanium on 7 Nov 2022, 11:18 pm
Was the 620b3 amplifier also discontinued when the partnership with StormAudio was not renewed?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 7 Nov 2022, 11:42 pm
No that is something we will probably look at in the future.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Ritchief on 29 Dec 2022, 09:54 am
Yes something we are considering.
We have learned during covid and some of our past relationships that being as self- sufficient as possible is the direction we are taking in the future.

james

Hi James,

I for one would be extremely interested in this. Are you able to provide appx timescales ?

Tks,
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 29 Dec 2022, 12:30 pm
Hi - Yes over the last year we have invested in machinery that will allow us to do our own metal work now, our own faceplates our own packaging and soon our own circuit boards.  We already manufacture all our own drivers and speaker products as well.

best
james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 29 Dec 2022, 12:33 pm
This is the new Elite version but we may change that going forward now that we manufacture our own faceplates.
best
james

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248198)

New Lit

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248199)
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Ritchief on 29 Dec 2022, 01:09 pm
This is the new Elite version but we may change that going forward now that we manufacture our own faceplates.
best
james

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248198)

New Lit

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248199)


So are we to assume a new SP3.5 or SP5 some time in 2023 ?
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 29 Dec 2022, 01:27 pm
Hi

That would be a long way off - too many changes too often currently.

james
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: Rod_S on 31 Dec 2022, 03:40 am
deleted
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: mv038856 on 2 Jan 2023, 09:09 pm
Hi

That would be a long way off - too many changes too often currently.

james

Hi James,

Are you considering to develop your own DSP platform or make use of an OEM like Momentum Data Systems (MDS), just as Bryston did with the SP-1, SP-1.7, SP-2 and SP-3?

Thanks!

Markus
Title: Re: Bryston SP4
Post by: James Tanner on 2 Jan 2023, 10:44 pm
HI - no decisions on that front currently

james