AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Audio by Van Alstine => Topic started by: woof on 26 Dec 2020, 01:56 am
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Hope the elves get caught up soon.
I will use it with three different speakers: Quad S-2s, Zu Souls, and Proac Tab 10s. I'm hoping the 120 will complement the Proacs awesome soundstage. They are special in that regard. The Quads are the best balanced but could use some "jump" and soundstage expansion while the Zu's are just rough and ready and need some smoothing at the top and grunt at the bottom. I have been a NuPrime STA9 user for about four years and haven't been disappointed but it's time for a change.
Does anyone have any ideas as to how the 120 will match up?
I was just about to pull the trigger on a Pascal amp but the Part-time Audiophile ejaculatory review got my attention.
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The SET amps live in the mid range which is lush, textured and beautiful. Bass is deep and punchy and cymbals have good air and are natural sounding.
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I am getting synched to my SET120 and have a puzzling question. If this runs 10 watts in Class A where is the heat? After several hours of play, the top is comfortably warm unlike a 2-watt bias from a 65-watt amp or yore. I could cook-off that one. So, is the "10" watts hyperbole? I got that number from one of the latest tests at Part-Time Audiophile.
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In my normal day to day usage I doubt I’m hitting 10 watts in my apartment maybe half, my speakers are 88dB, and after a full day the top is lukewarm. In order to heat this amp up I’d get noise complaints for sure. The synergy 240 I had before this was the same way, but I think this runs cooler, space heaters they are not.
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Output wise, I am sure Frank knows what he is doing.
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if you ever had a luxman or audio research or macintosh amp with power output meters you will know that hifi amps, into 'normal speakers in normal rooms' operate only at a very few watts of output to play music at normal volumes
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10 watts of purely resistive heat is not that much heat to dissipate. Even with two channels, it's a third of a 60 watt light bulb. Or about three modern LED 60 watt equivalent light bulbs. I suspect your old amp of yore had more going on than just 2 watts of class A bias. 2 watts wouldn't be much more than a single small birthday candle by my estimates.
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I asked this because 10 watts Class A could have been hyperbole from an "excited reviewer", I dunno. I had a big Yamaha in college that ran 2 watts into Class A and it was a cooker. I was using Heresy's so I never realized (at the time) that it was running in Class A all the time.
I'm not engineering literate so I don't have any idea of how Frank's circuit works. If it runs Class A without the heat, all the better.
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I think you'll be happy with the SET 120. I have one and got one to use in the summer instead of a class a tube amp. I also used it in my office and now it is in my home theater system with some Salk Song3's. It replaced a 200 wpc "heavy" amp. This amp has a sweet midrange, but its not syrupy. It has a similar tone to a tube amp, more than any solid state amp I've had. It sounds great and I've never had issues with not having enough power. I don't listen to music much on the system its in right now but the other night I did. The thing I also notice first with this amp is how the sound separates itself from the speakers, again more like a tube amp than a solid state. I recently got some single driver high efficiency speakers in my 2-channel area and I'm using a much much more expensive tube amp. However, I'm going to hook up the SET120 one day when I get some time because I think it may just be a great match with those speakers. It's a great amp at any price but for under $1k I would recommend this amp to anyone looking to get in to separates. Or get the SET 120 integrated if you don't want a separate preamp. Great amp.
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I am getting synched to my SET120 and have a puzzling question. If this runs 10 watts in Class A where is the heat? After several hours of play, the top is comfortably warm unlike a 2-watt bias from a 65-watt amp or yore. I could cook-off that one. So, is the "10" watts hyperbole? I got that number from one of the latest tests at Part-Time Audiophile.
My Parasound A21 ran in Class A for the first 8 watts. It only got warm driving my Magnepan 1.6's. However, my Pass X250amp runs in Class A for the first 20 watts or so and it gets hot.
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I think you'll be happy with the SET 120. I have one and got one to use in the summer instead of a class a tube amp. I also used it in my office and now it is in my home theater system with some Salk Song3's. It replaced a 200 wpc "heavy" amp. This amp has a sweet midrange, but its not syrupy. It has a similar tone to a tube amp, more than any solid state amp I've had. It sounds great and I've never had issues with not having enough power. I don't listen to music much on the system its in right now but the other night I did. The thing I also notice first with this amp is how the sound separates itself from the speakers, again more like a tube amp than a solid state. I recently got some single driver high efficiency speakers in my 2-channel area and I'm using a much much more expensive tube amp. However, I'm going to hook up the SET120 one day when I get some time because I think it may just be a great match with those speakers. It's a great amp at any price but for under $1k I would recommend this amp to anyone looking to get in to separates. Or get the SET 120 integrated if you don't want a separate preamp. Great amp.
From what I'm hearing, this amp seems tuned for a lot of Klipsch speakers. It does great with imaging.
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Some people don't believe in "break-in" but I do. Let's call it seasoning.
Last night I was amazed hearing the MOST LUCID channel separation ever heard in my home listening to FLAC files. (My Tab 10s get some credit, also. Kick those babies six feet apart and you are in business.)
PRAT, I couldn't sit still listening to music. There is something there, there.
The sound stage is very deep and a lot of voices seem to linger at the back.
The sound is "fleshed out" and makes the Tabbies sound much larger than they are. In fact, the bass is so muscular I'm hearing lower notes than ever before and having to reduce volume levels so's not overdrive. (Those 4.33" mid-woofs go lower than a regular LS 3/5a but not much lower.)
So far, this is the most "tubey" solid-state amp I've heard. (Far more tubey than my Decware SE84C!) All the edges have been buffed so all the notes are smooth.
I do have some concerns, though. The voices at the back of the soundstage can sound foggy. Sometimes words can sound burred, meaning syllables or just one word. Syllabance and the bite of a trumpet or symbol are gone. This is missed. There is also an occasional "smear" upfront and in the foreground. Puzzling.
I'm using a "seasoned" Freya S preamp without tone controls at the moment. And so far, I've been pleased overall. I appreciate a little sizzle at the top (how guache, they say!) and I will see if the imaging and PRAT overcome that. This is a music lover's amp, for sure. Next up will be my Zu Souls. These speakers do need some amp magic and I haven't found it yet. (Although I hate to move the Tabbies for fear of losing the magic imaging.)
Is there much hope for the upper treble?
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Controversy: In the mid-90s I auditioned a B&K ST-140 which was a much-lauded amp at the time. Stereophile, everybody just loved it. Last night I remembered the B&K and how much the 120 reminded me of it. The 140, at idle, seemed to suck sound out of the room. Very eery. I sent it back because it was too dark. I don't think the 120 is that dark and certainly has a better overall presentation. Does anyone recall the 140?
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Yes, I certainly remember the B&K 140. It was a part for part rip-off copy of our Mos-Fet 150 amplifier of that vintage. Bunch of crooks.
Regarding any "fogginess", I suspect you could use one of our new preamplifiers too. :)
Frank
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I suspect you could use one of our new preamplifiers too.
I knew that one was coming. When they get to 40% off Ill grab one. :thumb:
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Is there much hope for the upper treble?
I would guess that the SET 120 sounds identical to the SET 400 (up to a point). My SET 400 with the Fet Valve CFR Preamplifier (a perfect pairing) really came alive using the ZenWave D3 interconnects, everything from bass to treble snapped into focus. I spent an afternoon listening to the SET 400 driving the Zu Omen Dirty Weekends and imaging was holographic.
I waited until a used pair of D3's showed up in the Trading Post. You have to have AC on in the background and check regularly because when they do show up they go fast and you have to be real quick.
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As I remember, B & K product were sold at a store called the "House of High Fidelity" on Snelling Ave. by south of I-94 in St. Paul. The store closed it's door around mid 90's.
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House of High Fidelity in St Paul also sold Snell and Audio Physic. I have fond memories of visiting there and hearing McCormack, Sonic Frontiers and Audio Physic. Some of the best systems I’d ever heard.
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I would guess that the SET 120 sounds identical to the SET 400 (up to a point). My SET 400 with the Fet Valve CFR Preamplifier (a perfect pairing) really came alive using the ZenWave D3 interconnects, everything from bass to treble snapped into focus. I spent an afternoon listening to the SET 400 driving the Zu Omen Dirty Weekends and imaging was holographic.
I waited until a used pair of D3's showed up in the Trading Post. You have to have AC on in the background and check regularly because when they do show up they go fast and you have to be real quick.
I did not need to read this! I have a pair of real nice Dirty Weekends coming in soon, with a Ferrari red automotive gloss finish. Also getting the Jupiter cap upgrade. I have wanted a SET 400 for quite sometime. Does anyone know the damping factor on the 400?
And for fun, picture of my new ZU's. :D
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219934)
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Damping factor: Don't get the equipment wet.
Worse case equipment repair we ever had was when a gal brought her amplifier back to fix because her dog pissed in it. Bad enough but even worse because she waited a months before bringing it it. Metal parts inside were growing green stuff on them. Put it outside and sprayed about three cans of DeOxit into it and let it set fo a couple of days before bringing it in. Scraped off green stuff, replaced fuses, powered it up. It still worked! Couldn't get the smell out however. Don't remember what happened to it.
Anyway, our amplifiers have a very low output impedance (tiny fraction of an ohm) so the damping factor (which is the ratio between the output impedance of the amp and the input impedance of the speaker) is very high.
This was an important number in the days of early vacuum tube amplifiers who's output transformers were not so great. If the tube amp's output impedance was like 2 ohms, then its damping factor was just 4 into an 8 ohm speaker. No bass control and the amp was eating up a significant portion of its rated power just heating up its own output transformers.
Today, don't worry about the damping factor as long as you keep your dog or cat away from the amplifier.
Frank
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Today, don't worry about the damping factor............
Thanks Frank, I wish more people understood this.
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I can tell you that the amp has firm grip on bass. No boomy, flabby or slow bass. It is musical and punchy.
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After a considerable lapse, I have decided to continue my AVA adventures. This is copied from another fora I terrorize.
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Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:53 pm
One ejaculatory audio review seduced me into a new Class A/B amp. Yup, some magic happened at the last minute and I resolved to stay with the AVA SET120 amp.
In the beginning, I auditioned it for nearly two weeks using only my Tab 10's. I talked to Frank about the return and he acted incredulously about me sending it back. "These things just don't come back." Yeah, yeah. Told him they weren't giving the Tabbies the soundstage width I wanted, rolled off treble, etc. Then I said, "To be fair, I will pull my Souls forward and give them a shot for a day or two."
RAMA-LAMA-DING-DONG!
I have never liked my Zu's and regretted buying them but the SET120 made a hell of a difference. I guess Zu's don't like Class D. Now the Zu's had a lower and more visceral bass, there was more treble, and the soundstage started opening up! Had I achieved break-in? Or, was this the magic of MOSFETs outperforming NuPrimes Class A/D? The Souls finally had a more upfront sound that I had never heard.
So's the SET120 be a keeper, the Tabbies are shoved back, and audio begins anew. If the Schiit boys knew their gear was pushing an older design they would kick me off the Schiit pile. The NuPrime has twice the power (120 per side) and features balanced connectors whereas the AVA has 60 per side and is single-ended. None of that seems to matter, the AVA is gutsy and visceral with a good soundstage and plenty of reserve for the 99db Souls.
Frank really pushed his preamps saying that I would get a fully balanced (frequency) sound with one of his. I find nothing wrong with the Freya so I just "nodded" and said maybe later.
So, I am a happy camper with my "new" Souls and SET 120. Time to retire and enjoy for a while.
Recess over, there's more.
For yuks, I decided to try no preamp. I've thought about it and when I discovered the Apos website I became fixated on DAC/preamps and the chips they use. Apos is a very slick organization that shills the best of dacs and headphone amps from the Yellow Peril. I bought a Class D amp from them using a German power chip and got it in about six days! I was very impressed with its sound and the Tabbies loved it.
Why not go minimalist and try an inexpensive DAC/preamp? After hours of glorious research, I ordered an SMSL M200 DAC from Bezos in case I need a quick return. The M200 used the formerly top-of-the-line AKM4497. My Schiit DAC was using the AKM4490 which sounded good.
Once I got the 200 installed I started with some music and was not impressed. Closed-in, kind of a constipated sound. I was already shopping for a more expensive DAC when "the breakthrough" occurred. The sound stage started opening up and getting deeper. The upper mids and lower treble punched forward and the M200 added to the SET 120 the same qualities as before only more so. The system provides vivid channel separation, a wider soundstage, and great imaging. I am mesmerized by the sound that has no tone control input and sounds just right without them. Now, these are the "happy times" and I will not make any changes for a long while.
For less than $1500, I saved a pricy pair of speakers, got a minimalist system going, and am Schiit free for the moment. The Chinamen can make nice sounds out of chips over $99. US manufacturers can make wicked-sounding stuff for under $999.
The SET 120 is all black and crinkly to the point of disappearing in a cabinet. It's invisible and that's good because purdy it ain't. The M200 is a small black aluminum case with a large display on the front. It is slanted (like the Parthenon?) but not noticeable at listening difference. This becomes a small package not requiring real estate. The SO will never know until she spit shines the cabinets and shelves.
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Jul 23, 2021 7:34 pm
I decided to try Topping and am getting their D70s which use twin AKM 4497 DACs. One thorough reviewer said it is as good as the top-of-the-line D 90s. The 70s has fewer parts and a bit better treble. So now, we are at a stopping point. The D70s should be, theoretically, my resting place. We'll see.
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:34 pm
Well, that was a short-lived rest.
Nervosa never sleeps and as long as there are a few Yuan in the pocket you gotta spend it.
I got onto some hype about Audio Envy cables. I followed trails of fora chat and never found
a negative comment or review. I mean, I read so many comments I almost couldn't sleep!
After visiting the Audio Envy website I recoiled in horror at their prices! The cheapest thing I
could afford would be a pair of four-foot interconnects at $200. Short speaker cables would
be $900! Now, I spend $900 on a considered piece of gear a'la SET 120. But when you
turn that onto pieces of wire that's different. Well, my knees were wobbly from
so much info that I settled on their interconnects for $200. (I realize that is cheap stuff
to the more financially blessed.)
I placed my order and received it about a week later in a plain white USPO bag. Very
humble introduction. I took the directional wire and installed it into the D70s and the
AVA SET120. I kickstarted my system and hit play on some electronica.
RAMA LAMA DING DONG
It sounded different! Then I realized I was hearing details in the upper treble and treble
I've never heard before. It was showing me transparency in the mids and uppers
and the stereo image started to extend beyond my speakers! This was right after
hitting PLAY for the first time! I began to wonder how you make, bend, weave, or
configure a wire to produce MAGIC. And, it's got about 200 hours of break-in before
it fully fills out the bottom and lower mids. I was astounded.
I pulled out one of my favorites, "Man-Machine"-Kraftwerk, which was originally
recorded in the late '70s. It was like listening to it for the first time! The detail of
the entire spectrum was refined, sharpened, and full. It was a call to listen to
every CD I have.
The Audio Envy has acted as a stand-alone component as if it had a metal
case, a plug, and a power switch. This $200 wire shows me what my D70s
and SET 120 can really do. They can reproduce critical information at higher
and higher levels.
I've made this my electronic Second Coming on the back of two pieces of wire.
This is pure synergy. YMMV.
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If I were the new Chuck Heston, I would raise my 120 up to the sky and proclaim, "Out of my cold dead hands."
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HAW HAW HAW HAW!!!