[TONEPUB]

Not neccessarily, but they are made with a fair share of engineering.

And I felt this way before I published a hifi magazine.  Sorry, I'm not
a DIY guy.  Have had my bouts with it and even some fun but on my
best day, I can't make a better speaker than the stuff the majors throw
out in their dumpster.

If I don't get it, that's fine.

People are always much more proud of the stuff they've built themselves,
that's normal.  And that's also a cool aspect of the DIY part of this hobby.

The reverse smugness is always amusing.

Sorry, I'll stick to my job and let the speaker mfrs stick to theirs.

[MarkD]

There are some truly bad recordings that might sound better if they were less clear.  I'm not sure if some sort of low-pass filter might be what the guy was looking for, or some circuit that added in some white noise.  Just for him, maybe a reverb circuit option?  All defeatable, of course. 

I'm still loving my Insight DAC and semi-wondering if maybe the latest Ultra pre-amp might just possibly add even more sparkle and clarity...  Well, actually, there are more CDs to buy first.  It's still about the music. 

[TjMV3]

BTW: I just had to add this. You want to know what’s a REAL Audiophile rip-off?

SPEAKERS!!!

Seriously folks.

Manufacturers put whatever price they want because it has Birdseye whatever. Oh but it has 10 coats of clear lacquer and weigh 275lbs – each. They must be good!

Some of the best sounding speakers you can buy are comprised of a sheet of plywood, a can of spray paint and $200 worth of paper speakers.

I recently auditioned the Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands ($2,800.00 a pair) and then auditioned a pair of Jamo C607 floorstanders ( $650.00 a pair) and Jamo C603 Bookshelf speakers ( $320.00 a pair).


Not only are the Jamo C607 floorstanders a thoroughly better speaker in terms of overall performance (not talking just sound character),  but both the C607 and C603 bookshelf handled bass material and mid-range material with ease,  that the Mozart Grands could not handle.  The Mozart Grands became wildly distorted,   incoherent and rumbled.

Those Jamo speakers are smoother,  sweeter and all around better speakers.

But the Jamo's don't have a nice,  first class  real wood veneer;  like the Mozart Grands.  The Jamo's have a rather convincing laminate finish.  Looks nice for what it is. 

I choose the Jamo speakers.

[TjMV3]

I find it a little funny that those in favor of IEC socket/seperate power chords are coming off so offended,  here.

I remember when I first got back into this hobby in 2000,  the advocates of IEC socket/seperate power chords were so patronizing,  pompus and condencending towards any component that didn't have it (but rather a hardwired power chord and towards the owners of such equipment.  Even moreso towards those who expressed an opinion that they didn't think IEC socket/seperate power chords were necessary.

And now all the outrage and an almost martyrism over this.  Sorry,  I find this all rather funny.

[Philistine]

In my town, when driving, people are actually starting to put their breaks on when there is a green light, only because everyone drives thru the red light. This is mob mentality. If everyone would stop running the red light, we could all start driving thru the green light without putting our breaks on or stopping.

That said, there is a mob mentality with the IEC socket. It wasn't originally put on equipment because that allowed someone to put a #2AWG cable on it, it was because it made the manufacturing easier and more cost effective in a mass production environment. The IEC socket still terminates into an equivalent 13 amp capacity metal contacts. So we then have 12 AWG wire going to the outlet in your home, then the 2 AWG wire going to the DAC (about 1/2 amp draw) and then to a 16 AWG connection point on the back of the IEC socket, then thru some 16 AWG wire to the contacts on the fuse block, then thru a little tiny fuse wire, then some more contacts on the fuse block then thru some more wire, then thru a metal switch mechanism and then finally to a 16-18 AWG wire on the toroidal transformer. I think that's close to the chain of events.

The real problem is science. Has anyone ever come up with solid scientific evidence, any kind of math formula that the community at large can accept as being FACT, insted of some one who thinks they have golden ears?

Wayner

Affordable Audio had an interesting scientifically based study that attempted to explain the effect 'Studies On Residential Power Line Noise' in the September edition:

http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2008-09.pdf

I fall in the camp that PC's do change the sonic signature (good or bad) of every power amp I've heard, but it has got completely out of hand when a PC costs more than buying a better piece of equipment. 

[dyohn]

It's threads like this that drive scientists such as myself away from Internet audio forums.  Oh well.

[boead]

I love you guys! And I mean that in a purely platonic way.

I re-read much of this thread; I don’t see anyone getting too excited or being offended. I’m certainly not – LOL you have no idea how difficult it would be to offend me and I seriously hope I don’t offend anyone else. I’m rather blunt and don’t usually sugar coat anything so I do find myself inadvertently offending people. I mean we're talking about audio components for god sake!

Dyohn, you aren’t a “mad’” scientist, are you? I’m a Guru. I bet you may ask; so what kind of a guru are you, anyway? Well let me tell you brother…
 

[Wayner]

In my town, when driving, people are actually starting to put their breaks on when there is a green light, only because everyone drives thru the red light. This is mob mentality. If everyone would stop running the red light, we could all start driving thru the green light without putting our breaks on or stopping.

That said, there is a mob mentality with the IEC socket. It wasn't originally put on equipment because that allowed someone to put a #2AWG cable on it, it was because it made the manufacturing easier and more cost effective in a mass production environment. The IEC socket still terminates into an equivalent 13 amp capacity metal contacts. So we then have 12 AWG wire going to the outlet in your home, then the 2 AWG wire going to the DAC (about 1/2 amp draw) and then to a 16 AWG connection point on the back of the IEC socket, then thru some 16 AWG wire to the contacts on the fuse block, then thru a little tiny fuse wire, then some more contacts on the fuse block then thru some more wire, then thru a metal switch mechanism and then finally to a 16-18 AWG wire on the toroidal transformer. I think that's close to the chain of events.

The real problem is science. Has anyone ever come up with solid scientific evidence, any kind of math formula that the community at large can accept as being FACT, insted of some one who thinks they have golden ears?

Wayner

Affordable Audio had an interesting scientifically based study that attempted to explain the effect 'Studies On Residential Power Line Noise' in the September edition:

http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2008-09.pdf

I fall in the camp that PC's do change the sonic signature (good or bad) of every power amp I've heard, but it has got completely out of hand when a PC costs more than buying a better piece of equipment. 

I'm not talking about line noise, that is a different issue, I think you'll agree. Just the wire gauge thing.

Wayner 

[mfsoa]

If anyone is in the NJ/PA area and wants to hear a stunning difference between powercords when used on a Class D amp, please drop me a PM and I would be happy to demonstrate. It's really quite easy to hear. Just because I can't say why doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Soap doesn't work any better on someone who knows what a micelle is.
I figger at least one of these must be true if you still don't buy the PC thing-

1) Ones gear is not sensitive to PC changes whether due to the construction or the incoming power.

2) Ones gear or room bites to the point that differences are rendered inaudible.

3) Ones ears stink.

4) You have made up your mind without trying.

#1 I have no problem with.

The claim that "It just can't happen" is where the dogma is. I don't see how the experience of hearing the difference for yourself can be considered dogma in the least. It's really amazing how many people are convinced of their opinions without having made the attempt to hear it for themselves.

I agree that it's really hard to hear differences between PCs on AVA gear with captive PCs!

-Mike

[TONEPUB]

?

[martyo]

I agree that it's really hard to hear differences between PCs on AVA gear with captive PCs!

  

[Wayner]

Actually Mike, it's the other way around.

It's not my job to prove that way larger than necessary power cords are going to make my system sound better or not. It's your job to prove that it will sound better, with hard facts, indisputable evidence, otherwise you have no case to challenge the known excepted standards.

Wayner 

[boead]

AVA owners may find this device lots of fun. I did.
http://shop.vetcosurplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1085

http://www.schurterinc.com/wwwsc/con_pg07b.asp

http://www.onlinecomponents.com/buy/SCHURTER/47350000/



I need another one of these for a 1977 Luxman receiver. I've used these on older gear with significant improvement.

[boead]

Actually Mike, it's the other way around.

It's not my job to prove that way larger than necessary power cords are going to make my system sound better or not. It's your job to prove that it will sound better, with hard facts, indisputable evidence, otherwise you have no case to challenge the known excepted standards.

Wayner 

Do you work for the government?

[dyohn]

Dyohn, you aren’t a “mad’” scientist, are you? I’m a Guru. I bet you may ask; so what kind of a guru are you, anyway? Well let me tell you brother…
 

Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?

[martyo]

Do the actual plugs sound different? Does an integrated powercord; connector, cord, and plug, sound as good as seperates?

I also found this link at vetco, very cool:

http://shop.vetcosurplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1541&osCsid=5ef1f047e07d52c86b8851f2bd755a63


 

[Wayner]

Actually Mike, it's the other way around.

It's not my job to prove that way larger than necessary power cords are going to make my system sound better or not. It's your job to prove that it will sound better, with hard facts, indisputable evidence, otherwise you have no case to challenge the known excepted standards.

Wayner 

Do you work for the government?

No, I work for a publicly held company. We design industrial machines that make computer suspensions that a reader head is installed that allows your computer to read information off of a hard-disc drive.

I can't design analog or digital type of equipment with larger cable cause I think they're going to work better. And If they did, we'd be implementing changes company wide.

Wayner

[boead]

Actually Mike, it's the other way around.

It's not my job to prove that way larger than necessary power cords are going to make my system sound better or not. It's your job to prove that it will sound better, with hard facts, indisputable evidence, otherwise you have no case to challenge the known excepted standards.

Wayner 

Do you work for the government?

No, I work for a publicly held company. We design industrial machines that make computer suspensions that a reader head is installed that allows your computer to read information off of a hard-disc drive.

I can't design analog or digital type of equipment with larger cable cause I think they're going to work better. And If they did, we'd be implementing changes company wide.

Wayner

How do you feel about Solid State Drives? Seems HD's are going (will go) the way of Floppies. 

BTW, Wayner I was just trying to be funny.

[boead]

Dyohn, you aren’t a “mad’” scientist, are you? I’m a Guru. I bet you may ask; so what kind of a guru are you, anyway? Well let me tell you brother…
 

Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?

 

don't eat the yellow snow unless you know someone by the name of Nanook 

[Wayner]

A few folks are going to release a USB Terabyte drive for Christmas (a few already). Isn't that just incredible. The flash memory market is finding it's share with small devices and some small laptops. I can't comment on the impact on our market (corporate policy). Thanks for asking!

Wayner