Ncore Vs. Purifi

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nc42acc

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #60 on: 24 Jul 2022, 03:29 pm »
Goryu I don’t think you will illicit the response you are seeking here on AC. I do see you are a standing active member on the ASR forum and I believe you will have a more lively conversation about this topic over there. Old set in their ways audiophiles tend to cling to their audio snake oil pretty tightly. Thanks

goryu

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #61 on: 24 Jul 2022, 06:36 pm »
Thanks for the advice. I belong to many audio forums. Not really looking to solicit any responses here- simply replied to the op's request. What follows is just reaction.

Letitroll98

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #62 on: 25 Jul 2022, 01:41 pm »
A wise sage once wrote: "The purpose of an amplifier is to amplify, ideally, without adding anything to the signal but gain.".....But what if an amplifier removes information? How would we know?

I think Ncore amps remove information based on what I have heard on many different systems during our Tucson Summer Ncore Tour. Attendees agreed, but ....
Frank Van Alstine has a more realistic view about measurements and more importantly what we can't measure......

You buy em books and buy em books and all they do is eat the covers.

Tyson

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #63 on: 25 Jul 2022, 02:47 pm »
I also find that class D amps remove information from the signal.  In the form of tonal information and spatial information. 

Which is too bad, I like the idea of a small, efficient amp.  But I won’t buy one until they solve these issues.

nc42acc

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #64 on: 25 Jul 2022, 04:26 pm »
Tyson I agree. For me it is the change of tonal information that is modified or obscured. I don’t know enough about how the Class D technology works to know if there is more improvement to be discovered.

I also find that class D amps remove information from the signal.  In the form of tonal information and spatial information. 

Which is too bad, I like the idea of a small, efficient amp.  But I won’t buy one until they solve these issues.

goryu

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #65 on: 25 Jul 2022, 05:39 pm »
I don’t know enough about how the Class D technology works to know if there is more improvement to be discovered.


Perhaps if people took the time to learn how class d operates they would realize that no, the amp doesn't act as a filter on the signal.

Interesting how different people's perceptions can be and how people assume it's the amp and not their own perceptions. It's like dinner time when I make a thai curry- "it's too spicy", "it's not salty enough", "it's not spicy enough", "it's too salty". Same curry, 4 different reactions. Now I can measure the salinity and hotness and come up with measurements that show it is neither spicy or salty on a relative scale, but some will still insist it's too spicy and too salty. Same curry. Same amp, same thing.

nc42acc

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #66 on: 25 Jul 2022, 05:56 pm »
Me just a dumb uneducated audiophile. Good sound go in, bad sound come out.



Perhaps if people took the time to learn how class d operates they would realize that no, the amp doesn't act as a filter on the signal.

Interesting how different people's perceptions can be and how people assume it's the amp and not their own perceptions. It's like dinner time when I make a thai curry- "it's too spicy", "it's not salty enough", "it's not spicy enough", "it's too salty". Same curry, 4 different reactions. Now I can measure the salinity and hotness and come up with measurements that show it is neither spicy or salty on a relative scale, but some will still insist it's too spicy and too salty. Same curry. Same amp, same thing.

goryu

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #67 on: 25 Jul 2022, 07:50 pm »
Me just a dumb uneducated audiophile. Good sound go in, bad sound come out.

It's all in your head.

Early B.

Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #68 on: 25 Jul 2022, 08:01 pm »
Perhaps if people took the time to learn how class d operates they would realize that no, the amp doesn't act as a filter on the signal.

Actually, I agree with you on this point. One's perspective of tonal and spatial information is more likely a preference thing as opposed to an attribute of a particular class of amplifier. Tube lovers may be less likely to replace their tube amps with Class D amps because Class D is "salty" while tubes are "spicy." That's why conventional wisdom suggests a combination -- a tube preamp with a SS amp, where "SS" stands for "salty and spicy." 8)

 

richidoo

Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #69 on: 25 Jul 2022, 08:44 pm »
Me just a dumb uneducated audiophile. Good sound go in, bad sound come out.

Glad you finally realized.... 'bout time! ;)   

Now you must repent. Donate your high end electronics to the poor, swear fealty to the THD meter.

You will own Topping and ICE and you will be happy.

Then every other month "upgrade" to the latest from Putzeys throne room, or whatever Amir and the Gang tell you.
Or just PM goryu, he knows what's acceptable at any given moment.

This is how you feign happiness in the low distortion techno-cult where music = ammo and the gear churn never ends and the forum battles are legendary.

Oh, and if you can't find any good battles to entertain you on your lunchbreak, just start one yourself:
Up on your soapbox, evangelizing to the audiophile heathens who still believe in high end tooth fairy.
Damned savages!

Good luck nc42acc! You can do it!

nc42acc

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #70 on: 25 Jul 2022, 09:12 pm »
Can the DAC be upgraded in these digital amplifiers?

goryu

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #71 on: 25 Jul 2022, 09:26 pm »
Can the DAC be upgraded in these digital amplifiers?


lol...yeah, sure, just unplug your current dac and plug in a new one.

By the way, they are class d, not digital amps.

My son knows better than to jump into the deep end of the pool where the water is over his head. I would suggest you educate yourself a bit about class d amps before engaging in conversation as it is clear you are clueless about the subject matter.

This isn't directed at you per se, but the more I read of people's snarky, misinformed comments about objective performance, the more it become clear that they simply have little to no comprehension of the technical side of audio. Specs are a foreign language that they don't understand and rather admit that damping factor, TIM, THD, load dependent frequency response, etc. are simply beyond their grasp, they compensate with sarcasm, snark, and insults. Some enjoy the technical details, it's a part of the whole. No need to call names and put on the bluster to hide your insecurity, It's really ok if you choose to ignore the gory details of audio and to just sit back and enjoy your music.

nc42acc

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #72 on: 25 Jul 2022, 09:31 pm »
I read somewhere that Ncore uses AKM chips and Purifi uses ESS chips. Seems they could be upgraded to change their sound quality.


lol...yeah, sure, just unplug your current dac and plug in a new one.

By the way, they are class d, not digital amps.

My son knows better than to jump into the deep end of the pool where the water is over his head. I would suggest you educate yourself a bit about class d amps before engaging in conversation as it is clear you are clueless about the subject matter.

This isn't directed at you per se, but the more I read of people's snarky, misinformed comments about objective performance, the more it become clear that they simply have little to no comprehension of the technical side of audio. Specs are a foreign language that they don't understand and rather admit that damping factor, TIM, THD, load dependent frequency response, etc. are simply beyond their grasp, they compensate with sarcasm, snark, and insults.

Sad.

goryu

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #73 on: 25 Jul 2022, 09:42 pm »
I read somewhere that Ncore uses AKM chips and Purifi uses ESS chips. Seems they could be upgraded to change their sound quality.

You read wrong. They don't use dac chips in amplifiers. Ugh.

ServerAdmin

Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #74 on: 25 Jul 2022, 09:46 pm »
So if I am correct AudioCircle is more of a "subjective" forum and there are other outlets to voice "objective" opinions?

You are not correct. AudioCircle is not defined by being "subjective" or "objective", only that (a broad range of) people should be able to share their experiences and opinions in audio in a reasonably civil manner.

nc42acc

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #75 on: 25 Jul 2022, 09:52 pm »
My Hafler DH200 has distortion level of .001 so why does it sound different from a Digital Ncore amp?

goryu

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #76 on: 25 Jul 2022, 10:06 pm »
My Hafler DH200 has distortion level of .001 so why does it sound different from a Digital Ncore amp?

You have a lot of reading to do...

richidoo

Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #77 on: 25 Jul 2022, 11:21 pm »
You have a lot of reading to do...

Yeah, c'mon nc42acc! You didn't do your homework AGAIN?!?  Tisk tisk.  :nono:  How can you show you face 'round here? Honestly...

If the rest of us can read all the technical literature that goryu requires to keep us safe from ourselves and from exposure to harmful distortion, then you can too! You can't just skip the assignments and pretend to know what sounds good by ear. You must be trained and licensed by the authorities to make the important decisions about your audio system. It's only fair. Think of the children. Follow the science. C'MON MAN!

goryu

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #78 on: 25 Jul 2022, 11:41 pm »
Yeah, c'mon nc42acc! You didn't do your homework AGAIN?!?  Tisk tisk.  :nono:  How can you show you face 'round here? Honestly...

If the rest of us can read all the technical literature that goryu requires to keep us safe from ourselves and from exposure to harmful distortion, then you can too! You can't just skip the assignments and pretend to know what sounds good by ear. You must be trained and licensed by the authorities to make the important decisions about your audio system. It's only fair. Think of the children. Follow the science. C'MON MAN!

You seem to have a lot of anger, or maybe it's just acting out insecurity. In any case, not a good look. I see little effort to actually contribute something meaningful. Sad.

nc42acc

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Re: Ncore Vs. Purifi
« Reply #79 on: 25 Jul 2022, 11:49 pm »
I am hoping someone will post good resources to read about the difference between a traditional audio power amp and the new digital type amps. I would think if the distortion is below a threshold in both amps they would sound the same. I guess not.