AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: corndog71 on 12 Mar 2023, 03:57 am
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Thanks, Danny! :thumb:
Now I have to sell my pair of cherry X-SLS, my matching X-Voce, and possibly my X-Omni speakers in order to make up for your new “fun” speakers. I’m even considering selling my Super 7 monitors! :o (Not selling my OB subs :nono:)
Based on your video, the Brute is what I’ve been wanting for years. I hoped they would be less expensive but these are challenging times for everyone. Plus, I’m sure they’re worth it.
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I'd love to see a 3D cad shot of the cabinets...
Bob
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Has Danny announced a price for a pair of Brutes - kit with flatpacks or completed speakers?
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Has Danny announced a price for a pair of Brutes - kit with flatpacks or completed speakers?
Kit is $1200 and unassembled flat pack is $800. Assembled is $1100.
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I'd love to see a 3D cad shot of the cabinets...
Bob
Cabinet plans are posted on the page.
https://gr-research.com/product/old-school-brute/ (https://gr-research.com/product/old-school-brute/)
White van speakers these are not!
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Thanks, guys. I only glanced thru the website on my cell phone, and missed that they were under the X-Series speakers.
For the past couple of months, I've been researching DIY speakers, and have <mostly> decided on another somewhat similar design (3-way with 15" woofer) with higher efficiency. I'll add the Brute to my list of possible candidates.
Michael
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Thanks, Danny! :thumb:
Now I have to sell my pair of cherry X-SLS, my matching X-Voce, and possibly my X-Omni speakers in order to make up for your new “fun” speakers. I’m even considering selling my Super 7 monitors! :o (Not selling my OB subs :nono:)
Based on your video, the Brute is what I’ve been wanting for years. I hoped they would be less expensive but these are challenging times for everyone. Plus, I’m sure they’re worth it.
I am not selling my XLS encores as I bet Danny has something for us beyond the brute that can utilise our XLS encores. CMON DANNY POST IT UP ON YOUTUBE! :)
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Shoutout to Danny & Hobbs. A conversion kit is actually not a bad idea, for all XLS owners and lovers. Maybe a 12" sealed cabinet and a crossover update will be a option for people who already own the XLS. 🙂✌️🙏
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I caved and ordered the kit. Splitting the cost a bit and ordering the flat pack in a few weeks.
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I bet XLS Encore owners could order the Brute flat pack and just move the drivers over to the new box.
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The Brute uses the smaller woofer.
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Correct, it uses the 5.25" Bravo woofer (M130)
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With their 12 Ohm impedance and 90dB efficiency, It looks like “The Brute” would be a great choice for tube amps. I’d love to try them with my Transcendent Sound OTL amps!
Eric
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The Brute looks like a fun speaker
My Encores already play pretty low as it is, when I run them with subs they don't have to do much. Whenever I compare a 2 way with a sub or a 3 way, I seem to always prefer the 2 way with sub. I think it has something to do with the woofer size in the 2 way because typically they are larger and the cross over point between the mid and woofer in the 3 way are usually in that 150-250hz range. There are always trade offs. A one box solution versus more subs and amps. If I didn't already have the encores I would take a hard look at the Brutes.
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With their 12 Ohm impedance and 90dB efficiency, It looks like “The Brute” would be a great choice for tube amps. I’d love to try them with my Transcendent Sound OTL amps!
Eric
I've been playing them with some 120W Dodd Audio KT88 monoblocks the last few days and it's a killer combo.
I haven't plugged in the Elekit 8W 300B yet, but I suspect they'll still be pretty good combo as well.
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I've been playing them with some 120W Dodd Audio KT88 monoblocks the last few days and it's a killer combo.
I haven't plugged in the Elekit 8W 300B yet, but I suspect they'll still be pretty good combo as well.
I’m curious about the Elekit with these. I sort of had that combo in mind for them.
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Next level idea. Incorporate the NX studio into the brute cabinet vs the X-bravo.
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Personally, if I was gunna do that, I would prefer a traditional 3-way studio monitor layout with the subwoofer to the outside of the woofer/tweeter combo. (Like the ATC SCM25A)
It would still be massive and heavy. but hey, 20-20K with full control over the low end, even with the smaller HX310 amp? I'd be game for that.
You would still lose some of the imaging/soundstage benefits of a narrow baffle, but the waveguide will help as well.
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Next level idea. Incorporate the NX studio into the brute cabinet vs the X-bravo.
This is what I would like to see. Only a Brute style cabinet module with sealed servo that a NX Studio or Encore/Bravo could sit on top of. I like the rectangle style over the cube.
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I get the want for more solid servo bass but that’s asking a lot for some people. I was just thinking adding that magical 12” bass like the brute has but in a simplified cabinet by itself that the NXStudio could sit on.
A higher end Brute so to speak. I don’t know I’m just spit-balling here.
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I get the want for more solid servo bass but that’s asking a lot for some people. I was just thinking adding that magical 12” bass like the brute has but in a simplified cabinet by itself that the NXStudio could sit on.
A higher end Brute so to speak. I don’t know I’m just spit-balling here.
I agree and should have said that both options would be good.
Is the cut out for the servo and the nonservo drivers the same?
I am thinking about getting the Brute flatpack and covering the mid and tweeter holes. Making my own bass module and set my Studio's on top. :thumb:
Maybe Danny could make plugs for the mid and tweeter holes to do just that.
And yes I’m just spit-balling here too.
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Maybe an NX-Studio version could be the 3rd model in the lineup. The Brute is the passive 12 inch woofer and Bravo drivers. The Bully is the sealed Servo sub and an MTM layout of the Bravo drivers. And the Behemoth (I just made that name up, lol) could be the sealed Servo and the NX-Studio drivers.
Although, now that I think about it, if I had an NX-Studio if I wanted to add bass to it, I'd probably just buy a couple sealed servo kits and make the cabinets taller so they would work as stands for the Studios. Then there'd be no need to wait for Danny. Or, I'd build out a pair of dual OB servo subs and just use them as stands for the Studios.
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Maybe an NX-Studio version could be the 3rd model in the lineup. The Brute is the passive 12 inch woofer and Bravo drivers. The Bully is the sealed Servo sub and an MTM layout of the Bravo drivers. And the Behemoth (I just made that name up, lol) could be the sealed Servo and the NX-Studio drivers.
Although, now that I think about it, if I had an NX-Studio if I wanted to add bass to it, I'd probably just buy a couple sealed servo kits and make the cabinets taller so they would work as stands for the Studios. Then there'd be no need to wait for Danny. Or, I'd build out a pair of dual OB servo subs and just use them as stands for the Studios.
After the "Bully" is the "Beast" using the M165 in an MTM arrangement with a pair of 12" subs with an HX800 down below.
But who knows, "Behemoth" would be an interesting idea if we wanted to take them even further.
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After the "Bully" is the "Beast" using the M165 in an MTM arrangement with a pair of 12" subs with an HX800 down below.
But who knows, "Behemoth" would be an interesting idea if we wanted to take them even further.
How about a “David” and “Goliath”?
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Or how about the "Bloody Sundae" -- a compression driver blasting into a 12" wide horn with a 15" midwoofer sitting on top of an optional 15" servo sub module?
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I’m trying to visualize the beast and failing, that thing is going to be enormous.
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I’m trying to visualize the beast and failing, that thing is going to be enormous.
Well, Danny is from Texas. Go big or go home!
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If there are three models, I thought The Brute, The Beast, and finally The Behemoth, but I see behemoth has been mentioned.
I like the new model. Looks like a fun build.
JCarney
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Well, Danny is from Texas. Go big or go home!
The first “holy s$&t that’s a huge speaker” I remember seeing in this hobby was the LS9 so it tracks. :thumb:
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I’m trying to visualize the beast and failing
I'm trying to ignore that ridiculous name of "Brute" as a name for a potentially serious speaker.
Why Danny didn't keep the naming of this speaker in line with the other names within his brand, I'll never know. But this whole "Brute" name thing is just... Well, I'll just leave it at that. I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers anymore than I probably already have.
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I'm trying to ignore that ridiculous name of "Brute" as a name for a potentially serious speaker.
Why Danny didn't keep the naming of this speaker in line with the other names within his brand, I'll never know. But this whole "Brute" name thing is just... Well, I'll just leave it at that. I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers anymore than I probably already have.
I think it's not a 'serious' speaker. I think it's a party speaker that can also do the audiophile thing as a bonus.
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I think it's not a 'serious' speaker. I think it's a party speaker that can also do the audiophile thing as a bonus.
Correct, it's a throwback to the old big-box speakers, but using good quality parts, and a much stiffer box.
It will never "disappear" as easily as any of our other designs due to the large, wide baffles, but you can crank it up, and get rather deep bass.
Imaging is quite good, as is soundstage width, but depth is limited to the space between the speaker's.
It's not a speaker design that's for everyone, but there are people who are looking for that sort of design.
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I think it's not a 'serious' speaker. I think it's a party speaker that can also do the audiophile thing as a bonus.
I think that is a silly statement. "not a serious speaker". I bet this speaker sound better overall than the NX Studio. The key word here is "overall". And with no subs on either speaker. Just comparing the speakers. Several of you may need to go watch Danny's video again to see what he thinks.
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I think that is a silly statement. "not a serious speaker". I bet this speaker sound better overall than the NX Studio. The key word here is "overall". And with no subs on either speaker. Just comparing the speakers. Several of you may need to go watch Danny's video again to see what he thinks.
I would have to disagree.
The only metric where the Brute really shines vs the NX-Studio is bass extension and impact.
With regards to Imaging, clarity, soundstage etc it's not even close that the Studios are the better speaker.
That's not to say that the Brute isn't a great speaker in it's own right, but it's a very different speaker, geared towards a different crowd of people who want different things.
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There is no way no how a speaker can be produced using the x series drivers that will ever compete with the NX series. But that’s not the goal of this speaker. It’s a one box, full range, loud playing speaker that can work anywhere.
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Also, remember the NX-Studios with dual subs will still end up costing a lot more than these speakers. Also, if there ever is an NX version of the Brute, it’s probably going to be about $1k more when you add in the driver cost, crossover parts, and the fact that you probably won’t be able to build the cabinet from scratch as the baffle will need a CNC milled waveguide. So more money equals better performance still applies here.
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I still think a Brute based Bass module for the NX Studio is needed in the line up. This way all of us that dont want to spend $4k+ on OB subs or dont want the sealed square cube would have an option. Just say'n :D
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It may still be a good compromise to have a large bass woofer along with the NX drivers for people who want a one box solution for a medium sized room. I got the Brute so I could have a still really good full range party speaker in my living room without the speakers dominating the room aesthetically. If I want the ultimate experience, I will go to the basement and listen to the NX Oticas.
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I still think a Brute based Bass module for the NX Studio is needed in the line up. This way all of us that dont want to spend $4k+ on OB subs or dont want the sealed square cube would have an option. Just say'n :D
It wouldn't be too hard for you to build bass modules (errr...subwoofers) and slap amps on the back of them. There are several guys on AC who would be happy to sketch it up for you. You could probably build two modules for less than half the cost of a pair of OB servo subs, but the trade-off is they won't sound as good and the NX Studios deserve the best bass.
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Depending on the cabinet volume needed for the Eminence woofer, I wonder if the single servo sub cabinet would work. It’s a solid design.
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If they design the next one with the MTM I will assume that they will make the highpass lower than the Brute to blend this better with the SERVO subs. Almost all dedicated subwoofers do not so high.
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It wouldn't be too hard for you to build bass modules (errr...subwoofers) and slap amps on the back of them. There are several guys on AC who would be happy to sketch it up for you. You could probably build two modules for less than half the cost of a pair of OB servo subs, but the trade-off is they won't sound as good and the NX Studios deserve the best bass.
When the time comes I'll have to contact Denton Woodworkers and have them custom build a pair of Brute's for me or modify a pair of the sealed sub for the Eminence woofers. I dont have a shop or the capability to even assemble a large flat pack much less build something from scratch.
I dont care about having the best bass, I want mid bass impact and to make my Studios fun instead of disappointing and frustrating. I have all this money into my system and dont even listen them much anymore because they trigger me :duh:
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Are these the woofers from the old V2 speaker or something different?
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Are these the woofers from the old V2 speaker or something different?
Not the same. You should watch Danny’s you tube video. Explains it all.
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I dont care about having the best bass, I want mid bass impact and to make my Studios fun instead of disappointing and frustrating. I have all this money into my system and dont even listen them much anymore because they trigger me :duh:
You're playing NX Studios without subs???? :nono: Nearly all monitors in a main rig need support from subs. And yeah, it's easy to say you don't care about having the best bass until you spend money on 'em and soon thereafter you regret not buying the best bass in the first place. We've all been there.
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Since my XLS build was so much fun I am thinking about the brute.
Two thoughts came to mind:
- can I put these on stands close to the floor in an angle like the Klitsch heresy 4 ?
- and how important are the outer radius as I really like the boxy look of the kiloschwere models ?
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Or I was thinking about the M130 floorstander transmission line
Any updates on that Hobbs ? :)
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I think it's not a 'serious' speaker. I think it's a party speaker that can also do the audiophile thing as a bonus.
Correct, it's a throwback to the old big-box speakers, but using good quality parts, and a much stiffer box.
It will never "disappear" as easily as any of our other designs due to the large, wide baffles, but you can crank it up, and get rather deep bass.
Imaging is quite good, as is soundstage width, but depth is limited to the space between the speaker's.
It's not a speaker design that's for everyone, but there are people who are looking for that sort of design.
Yes, I realize all of this. Still doesn't mean it should be given a ridiculous name.
There are plenty of companies out there making "retro" loudspeakers currently, and even some bringing back old models, yet none of them have silly names.
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Yes, I realize all of this. Still doesn't mean it should be given a ridiculous name.
There are plenty of companies out there making "retro" loudspeakers currently, and even some bringing back old models, yet none of them have silly names.
Maybe they should add some numbers letter and dashes, or give it a name that is regal, philosophical, cosmic, artsy?
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Maybe they should add some numbers letter and dashes, or give it a name that is regal, philosophical, cosmic, artsy?
The 8rut3! :P
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The 8rut3! :P
The R3RT0 CL4551C :green:
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Since my XLS build was so much fun I am thinking about the brute.
Two thoughts came to mind:
- can I put these on stands close to the floor in an angle like the Klitsch heresy 4 ?
- and how important are the outer radius as I really like the boxy look of the kiloschwere models ?
:icon_twisted:
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The R3RT0 CL4551C :green:
8rut3 R3RT0 CL4551C
Now that is proper branding that will sell a speaker!
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Naming any speaker is kind of silly if you think about it. While “brute” wouldn’t have been my first choice, it’s kinda growing on me. It’s a solid, fun speaker. I want a pair but will have to unload some speakers first. Anyone interested in a pair of X-Omnis? (Now THAT is a cool name!)
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Naming any speaker is kind of silly if you think about it. While “brute” wouldn’t have been my first choice, it’s kinda growing on me. It’s a solid, fun speaker. I want a pair but will have to unload some speakers first. Anyone interested in a pair of X-Omnis? (Now THAT is a cool name!)
I maybe interested in your Omnis
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The X-Omnis are an interesting speaker, but most people don't understand them since they have an up-firing woofer.
But they have a very large, open soundstage compared to traditional X-SLS.
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Maybe they should add some numbers letter and dashes, or give it a name that is regal, philosophical, cosmic, artsy?
The 8rut3! :P
The R3RT0 CL4551C :green:
Ah yes, of course. The immature children are coming out to play I see. So typical.
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Got a crossover done for the Brute. The nice thing about this speaker is there is no concern over space for the crossover.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251286)
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Nice man; that’s chunky.
Do you already own a Gr speaker ? For comparison …
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Nice man; that’s chunky.
Do you already own a Gr speaker ? For comparison …
I have 7 pairs of GR Research speakers across all the ranges. And I realized….I have way too many speakers.
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Ah yes, of course. The immature children are coming out to play I see. So typical.
Sorry Chops, couldn't resist busting your chops a little. You have to admit you left yourself wide open for that.
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I have 7 pairs of GR Research speakers across all the ranges.
So I guess the XLS also ?
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So I guess the XLS also ?
They were my first.
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Uh nice; I am super happy with those; if the brute does what the encore does and adds the dynamics in the low end I think that would be end game for me
I like the concept having a speaker that does full range without needing a sub.
Thanks for sharing your progress :)
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I will do a post on them once I get the cabinets. This will be my first time veneering.
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Danny oh Danny what have you done? I have a few hours through my Brutes and I’m thinking these may be the best box speakers I ever had. Amazing.
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Danny oh Danny what have you done? I have a few hours through my Brutes and I’m thinking these may be the best box speakers I ever had. Amazing.
Wait...where are the pics???
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There is no way no how a speaker can be produced using the x series drivers that will ever compete with the NX series. But that’s not the goal of this speaker. It’s a one box, full range, loud playing speaker that can work anywhere.
Danny oh Danny what have you done? I have a few hours through my Brutes and I’m thinking these may be the best box speakers I ever had. Amazing.
Hmmmm.
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I said “Box” speaker. :D
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Still waiting on the stands so I have them on my KLH stands for now.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252224)
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Here is the Veneer vs raw MDF.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252225)
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That's funny they kind of make those KLH speakers look like toys.
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Beautiful Job🙂👍
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Nice!! Glad you are enjoying them.
Mike
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Does this speaker remind anyone of anything? (from Twittering Machines Axpona 2023 coverage - Studio Electric m5):
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252245)
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Does this speaker remind anyone of anything? (from Twittering Machines Axpona 2023 coverage - Studio Electric m5):
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252245)
Yes, the M5 can be yours for only $6700 :P. And with a smaller bass woofer. :lol:
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Does this speaker remind anyone of anything? (from Twittering Machines Axpona 2023 coverage - Studio Electric m5):
Yeah, I saw similar speakers too.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252247)
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Yes, the M5 can be yours for only $6700 :P. And with a smaller bass woofer. :lol:
Plus a 3.1khz crossover to the tweeter leaving the rest to that huge midrange driver.
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Here is the Veneer vs raw MDF.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252225)
Nice job on the veneer and the build, what type of veneer is it?
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Nice job on the veneer and the build, what type of veneer is it?
Edge Supply Walnut peel and stick. The drawback with this stuff is the 3M adhesive gums up the router bit fast and you have to clean the bit off every section.
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looks really cool in that black wood veneer; can I ask you how you would compare them to a pair of XLS? cheers
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Anybody bringing a pair to the Lone Star Audio Fest?
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looks really cool in that black wood veneer; can I ask you how you would compare them to a pair of XLS? cheers
I would say the Brutes have more actual clarity than the XLS Encore but less soundstage layering. However, the Brutes more than make up for the lack of layering with sheer presence in the room. There is a great sense of realism. The blend of the 3 drivers is flawless and the midrange is perfect. It still doesn’t have the detail and layering of the NX speakers but for being one speaker and no subs needed, it’s almost close enough.
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When I was listening to the pair in-shop the layering between the speakers was fantastic easily as good as any of our other speakers but it lacks the same level of layering to the outside that most of our speakers are known for.
But they are great at filling a room, even a larger one, offering a very wide soundstage, but the outside isn't very deep.
Still a very fun speaker though!
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Here they are with the stands. They sound better off the floor.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252495)
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Man, that looks so cool. Makes me want to build a pair, even though I am already have too many speakers already.
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Man, that looks so cool. Makes me want to build a pair, even though I am already have too many speakers already.
I just sold my pair of X-SLS to make room for these! I just have to wait until the dust settles after moving next month.
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.
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Too bad AC doesn’t have a like feature button. Nice one mkrawcz!
Best,
Anand.
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Man, that looks so cool. Makes me want to build a pair, even though I am already have too many speakers already.
Tyson, your tube amps will thank you for these. I had them hooked to the Elekit and it was excellent. I just sold my pair of X-SLS to make room for these! I just have to wait until the dust settles after moving next month.
You won’t have any regrets.
Too bad AC doesn’t have a like feature button. Nice one mkrawcz!
Best,
Anand.
Thanks!
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Somebody bring a pair of these to the Lone Star Audio Fest, please ?
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Somebody bring a pair of these to the Lone Star Audio Fest, please ?
Marvin, you are only a few hours away. Just come up and listen to them.
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I'm trying to get the masses to hear them. :D
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@mkrawcz In your room, did the layering improve if you bring the speakers farther from the front wall. Is there a significant drop in bass/midbass if you move them away from the front wall? Thanks
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@mkrawcz In your room, did the layering improve if you bring the speakers farther from the front wall. Is there a significant drop in bass/midbass if you move them away from the front wall? Thanks
The layering definitely gets better the farther out away from the wall they get. I don’t think there is much difference in the bass/mid bass farther out. If anything, it may be a little better even.
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Here they are with the stands. They sound better off the floor.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252495)
Hi. Looks like you are using two mono blocks for these Brute’s. Specific please.
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VTV Hypex NCx500 w/standard Hypex buffer.
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@mkrawcz Since it looks like you have a KLH speaker: how do the Brute compare? Thank you
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@mkrawcz Since it looks like you have a KLH speaker: how do the Brute compare? Thank you
The Brutes blow the KLH away in every category.
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Hi all,
I have decided to move on from floor standers but don’t mind big stand mounts either. I have dual subs (box) and will continue to do so moving forward. I hope more owners will post about their experience with Brute in the coming days/months. Thank you @mkrawcz for sharing
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Hi all, I just purchased the brute and am going to start on the cabinets next week. Any advice is more than welcome. I'll be cutting the mdf myself.
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@Sonnyhad Hoping you will share your impressions as far as sound quality after you're done with your build. Thanks
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@mkrawcz btw, which KLH speaker do you have?
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Model 5
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Does anyone know how large the crossover board needs to be?
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Does anyone know how large the crossover board needs to be?
I think I made mine 8in x 10in.
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@mkrawcz what's the dimension of the room the Brute's are in, mine is about 25 x 20 nondedicated audio room with some treatments
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@mkrawcz what's the dimension of the room the Brute's are in, mine is about 25 x 20 nondedicated audio room with some treatments
Mine is similar 17x25.
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Mine is similar 17x25.
Thank you. Do you use subs with the Brute?
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Thank you, 8 x 10 works fine. On to the mdf cutting now.
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Mdf cut and about ready to assemble.
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Bought the Flat packs and ran into some trouble with the first cabinet during install. Tried to build it all in one day, and had some issues getting everything to slide together right.
2nd one, I broke all sharp edges where bracing interacts, with a hand plane, maybe 1/32. Built the top inner brace section only, attached the back, on day 1. Let that sit and harden fully clamped and triple checking square. Then Day two got the rest of the lower bracing, sides and top on much easier than trying to do it all day once.
Any other tips?
Ordered a second left :(. And have the cross overs started.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=254569)
Mdf cut and about ready to assemble.
one done almost done with the other.
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Oh Dang it! I built it sideways!! :)
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Oh Dang it! I built it sideways!! :)
You can lay on the floor for listening. Then everything will be good :thumb:
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Got 2nd one done and tested! They work! They work good! They work really good!
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Got 2nd one done and tested! They work! They work good! They work really good!
How do they sound?
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Got 2nd one done and tested! They work! They work good! They work really good!
Give them at least 100 hrs and they will open up a lot.
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I just have them hooked up in the garage for the moment to a Fosi v3 and already sound impressive. Then attached the eversolo a6 and wow not bad at all in the garage! Oh the v3 does have the Spark op amp in it. Can't wait to put them in a listening area and better amplifier.
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They are keepers to say the least. Very well done Danny!
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Oh Dang it! I built it sideways!! :)
It can float too.