[jeffreyfranz]

I did a search of by user name and subject and some things showed up including the below:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116320.msg1218123#msg1218123

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108750.msg1119125#msg1119125

Reply #3 in this very thread.

OK, thanks, fellas. I did actually see reply #3. I was thinking during my various searches that I was going to come upon a link to a full-on review. I guess I glossed over the term "mini-review" that I think Ted used. All good.

[ted_b]

I did much more on the eXD/Sonore over on computer audiophile (a mini-review).  My paragraph here is hardly an anything-review. 

[jeffreyfranz]

Question (everybody's fave question?):


Ted & Friends:
OK, I have the shpilkes bad to get a DAC. I have never seen such an explosion of exciting, quality gear at relatively decent prices. And you folks have confirmed my bias toward all things DSD. In my price range, from easily affordable to just-barely-really-shouldn't, the options I can remember look something like this.

• Concero. New version about to arrive, $800. Worth it to go one level higher?
• Matrix X-Sabre. Here now, $1150(?). Worth it to go one level higher?
• Mytek Digital DSD. Here now, Swiss Army knife, but some say a little brutal, sonically, $1600. Worth it to go one level higher?
• Exesound (think I got the name wrong) Mk. II. Here now, limited inputs but looks great, $2500. Worth it to go one level higher?
• Lampizator. Here now? Looks mind-boggling if it's for real, pretty, tubes, $3000 (I think). Worth it to go one level higher?
• Aurevic Vega. Here now, back ordered (?), gorgeous, $3500.

My priorities: Balanced circuit, crystal clear but sweet if I can get it sound, not grating or abrasive, high-quality and reliability, ease of use. Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated. Thank you in advance. - Jeffrey

PS: Oops, I forgot the Sonore/Simple Design. Throw that in.

[InfernoSTi]

And the Teac UD-501

[krikor]

If listing all the DSD DACs (as I am also considering getting one due to all the hoopla), available now:
Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSD - $1600
Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse - $2500
Benchmark DAC2 HGC - $2000

And rumor has it Schiit has something coming at the lower priced end of the range.

[mgalusha]

Include the Lynx Hilo at $2,495, it's capable of 24/192 and DSD64 but not DXD or DSD128. I have one on loan at the moment and it's really nice and is also a very good A/D converter.

Of the ones you have listed I've owned the Mytek and the Auralic VEGA. I also have a the TEAC UD-501 in at the moment and spent a week recently with the exaSound E20. Ted's heard a lot more DSD DAC's than I have but I've been fortunate enough to have played with a variety the last few months.

For my tastes I'd rank them as follows, based on what I've heard in my system.

Auralic VEGA
exaSound E20 or the Lynx Hilo - both made me smile a lot. The Lynx gets the value award if you want to record. They were not here at the same time so I can't say directly which I'd prefer but neither left me wanting, same price.
TEAC UD-501
Mytek DAC192.

I've only got a few hours on the TEAC but I prefer it to my memory of the Mytek. I really like the VEGA but one must try various settings and filters. I had a few friends over and we could make it nearly indistinguishable from the E20 and both are very good, can't go wrong with any of them IMO.

mike

Question (everybody's fave question?):


Ted & Friends:
OK, I have the shpilkes bad to get a DAC. I have never seen such an explosion of exciting, quality gear at relatively decent prices. And you folks have confirmed my bias toward all things DSD. In my price range, from easily affordable to just-barely-really-shouldn't, the options I can remember look something like this.

• Concero. New version about to arrive, $800. Worth it to go one level higher?
• Matrix X-Sabre. Here now, $1150(?). Worth it to go one level higher?
• Mytek Digital DSD. Here now, Swiss Army knife, but some say a little brutal, sonically, $1600. Worth it to go one level higher?
• Exesound (think I got the name wrong) Mk. II. Here now, limited inputs but looks great, $2500. Worth it to go one level higher?
• Lampizator. Here now? Looks mind-boggling if it's for real, pretty, tubes, $3000 (I think). Worth it to go one level higher?
• Aurevic Vega. Here now, back ordered (?), gorgeous, $3500.

My priorities: Balanced circuit, crystal clear but sweet if I can get it sound, not grating or abrasive, high-quality and reliability, ease of use. Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated. Thank you in advance. - Jeffrey

PS: Oops, I forgot the Sonore/Simple Design. Throw that in.

[jeffreyfranz]

And the Teac UD-501

Double oops. Yes, and the Teac. Looks like an awful lot of product for near-thebottom $$$.

[jeffreyfranz]

If listing all the DSD DACs (as I am also considering getting one due to all the hoopla), available now:
Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSD - $1600
Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse - $2500
Benchmark DAC2 HGC - $2000

And rumor has it Schiit has something coming at the lower priced end of the range.

Well, yes, I am the man with no memory. I shoud have included the Benchmark DAC 2, which I am aware of, though I have seen a qualm expressed here and there on the boards. I would willingly go for it if someone or more persons with good experience on several contenders, like Mike, below, advocated for it as a world-beater. The Wyred4Sound stuff I know nothing about--didn't forget 'em, just dont know anything. I have seen posters putting down the sonics of their non-DSD dacs, but I do not know, myself.


The Schiit people have a lot of hostile-speak re DSD. I would be surprised if they came on with DSD. In fact, in their website announcement for the forthcoming Statement DAC, they said explicitly it would not have DSD. Could be sandbagging but why?

[jeffreyfranz]

Include the Lynx Hilo at $2,495, it's capable of 24/192 and DSD64 but not DXD or DSD128. I have one on loan at the moment and it's really nice and is also a very good A/D converter.

Of the ones you have listed I've owned the Mytek and the Auralic VEGA. I also have a the TEAC UD-501 in at the moment and spent a week recently with the exaSound E20. Ted's heard a lot more DSD DAC's than I have but I've been fortunate enough to have played with a variety the last few months.

For my tastes I'd rank them as follows, based on what I've heard in my system.

Auralic VEGA
exaSound E20 or the Lynx Hilo - both made me smile a lot. The Lynx gets the value award if you want to record. They were not here at the same time so I can't say directly which I'd prefer but neither left me wanting, same price.
TEAC UD-501
Mytek DAC192.

I've only got a few hours on the TEAC but I prefer it to my memory of the Mytek. I really like the VEGA but one must try various settings and filters. I had a few friends over and we could make it nearly indistinguishable from the E20 and both are very good, can't go wrong with any of them IMO.

mike

Mike: The Teac could of course be a bargain leader. Could you elaborate on why you put it ahead of the much discussed Mytek and how close (if at all) it got to the exaSound DAC in your system? Thanks.

[Russtafarian]

John Gatski's review of the Benchmark DAC2 D offers some brief comments on the Benchmark as compared to the Mytek and Teac:

http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/

Also, Steven Stone reviewed the Mytek, Benchmark, and Lynx Hilo in the current TAS.  I don't think the review is accessible on-line.  Not that it matters.  He doesn't spill much ink differentiating between the sound of the DACs.

Russ

[jeffreyfranz]

Thanks, Russ. Yes I saw Gatski's review, and I know he was quite enthusiastic for the DAC 2 (as he seems to be for most things he reviews). He also raves for the Mytek and the Oppo 105. It is hard to make differentiations on that basis, or maybe they are just all really that good. That would be great, if that were true. Then one could just pick the best buy or combination of features desired. I also have yet to check out the Wyred4Sound and Lynx Hilo that were mentioned here yesterday.


I had been looking for some time before I discovered Audiocircle and begin asking/posting here. I am beginning to weary of obsessing over these things, which is kind of the way I am. I may back away for awhile, or I may just buy a Teac HD-501, Matrix X-Sabre or Simple Design/Sonore unit--all on the lower side, price wise. Based on the impressions I get over at Head-Fi.org, I would think the Matrix might be the easiest to resell later if there was a need.


I also think, in a higher price category and due to familiarity, that the Benchmark DAC 2 might be one of the easier ones to resell later. I have thought that I might go that route if I didn't want to try to stretch my budget all the way to a exaSound e20 Mk. II ($500 difference). The reason I keep mentioning potential reselling is because I am buying blind. These things aren't down at Best Buy to examine and audition. I think one important thing to remember is, things change so rapidly in the DAC market, it may not always be the wisest thing to spend large sums on today's I-gotta-have-it sexy DAC. Unless of course, one is rolling in dough. But that is not me.


I would sure like to hear back from mgalusha/Mike soon (see his detailed post, above), as he clearly has firsthand knowledge of several of my top candidates. I would love to hear Ted chime in, as well, but I know he already has answered Qs from relative noobs like me a bazillion times. One thing's for sure, it's embarrassment of riches time in Dac Land. 

[ted_b]

Jeffrey,
George at Exasound, Michal at Mytek, even Xuanqian at Auralic...they will all give you 30 day demos/trials/returns (use my name  ).   There is nothing that is anywhere close to hearing the DAC in your own system with your own ears (and music/room/setup).  I would not buy any DAC blindly. 

I would make darn sure you hear the Chord QuteHD ($1700, a few more $$ for a good plug-n-play 12V linear ps, like with the Exasound design) too.  Each offer their own sound palette, and strengths on certain areas.  I agree that the most similar will likley be the B-Mark and Mytek...assuming you don't need firewire (Mytek only).

[jeffreyfranz]

Thanks, Ted. That's good advice, of course (the auditioning), and much appreciated. I think I'll give Michal a call tomorrow and begin the process. May as well start with the most cost-effective of those three you just mentioned. At the least, I could rule it out and move on to further auditions.  Idea! Or... I could get two or three loaners in at once and do a compare-and-contrast.

[mgalusha]

I would sure like to hear back from mgalusha/Mike soon (see his detailed post, above), as he clearly has firsthand knowledge of several of my top candidates. I would love to hear Ted chime in, as well, but I know he already has answered Qs from relative noobs like me a bazillion times. One thing's for sure, it's embarrassment of riches time in Dac Land. 

In my system and for my tastes I found the Mytek a little forward/aggressive on PCM. I liked it on DSD and while I've had a friend rip all my SACD's, I still have far more PCM than DSD, so the performance on PCM takes precedence. I also don't care for the DC offset on the Mytek's outputs. This is normal behavior per Michal @ Mytek and for a lot of folks isn't a problem but it was for me as my preamp and amps are direct coupled and pass DC, something that ultimately I decided I would not accept.

Not sure how close the TEAC comes to the exaSound but this weekend I'm planning on spending some quality time with the Lynx, TEAC and VEGA. The TEAC has been playing all week and I am shipping the Lynx back to it's owner on Monday, so with any luck I can lock myself in the listening room and play geek for a while. I made note of the settings that make the VEGA sound very much like the exaSound, so that may provide some idea of how they compare. I did use a well filtered linear PS when I had the exaSound, so it was fairly optimal. The others all have internal power supplies but I'm using the same cords on all of them, a DIY version of the Less Loss cable. I'll try and provide more detailed information after I do some level matched comparisons.

mike

[hi5harry]

The only thing I wanted mention is my Auralic Vega took around 500 hours to sound it's best. Before that I wasn't sure it was going to work out in my system. Now I am really enjoying it!

[Sonny]

All this talk about DSD Dacs...
Well, how much music downloads are there that is DSD downloads?  Minimal?
So, though it's nice to have the feature, I doubt if it's worth it until there are more DSD Downloads, unless someone is using a PS3 to rip SACDs.

[ted_b]

All this talk about DSD Dacs...
Well, how much music downloads are there that is DSD downloads?  Minimal?
So, though it's nice to have the feature, I doubt if it's worth it until there are more DSD Downloads, unless someone is using a PS3 to rip SACDs.

If you doubt it's worth then why are you here?  Many of us have hundreds of DSD albums (if not more  ).  And DSD download sites increase monthly.  Oh...and the DSD DACs we are discussing (except for the newest Lampizator) all do PCM too..

[wisnon]

Thanks, Ted. That's good advice, of course (the auditioning), and much appreciated. I think I'll give Michal a call tomorrow and begin the process. May as well start with the most cost-effective of those three you just mentioned. At the least, I could rule it out and move on to further auditions.  Idea! Or... I could get two or three loaners in at once and do a compare-and-contrast.

The Chord is NOT balanced though...and only does DSD64 for now. It seems they have a DSD128 update planned soon.

Another to consider is the $4500 Resonnesence Invicta....it can use SDXC cards and as a transport, these are GREAT SQ.

[wisnon]

All this talk about DSD Dacs...
Well, how much music downloads are there that is DSD downloads?  Minimal?
So, though it's nice to have the feature, I doubt if it's worth it until there are more DSD Downloads, unless someone is using a PS3 to rip SACDs.

KillJOY!

[jeffreyfranz]

In my system and for my tastes I found the Mytek a little forward/aggressive on PCM. I liked it on DSD and while I've had a friend rip all my SACD's, I still have far more PCM than DSD, so the performance on PCM takes precedence. I also don't care for the DC offset on the Mytek's outputs. This is normal behavior per Michal @ Mytek and for a lot of folks isn't a problem but it was for me as my preamp and amps are direct coupled and pass DC, something that ultimately I decided I would not accept.

Not sure how close the TEAC comes to the exaSound but this weekend I'm planning on spending some quality time with the Lynx, TEAC and VEGA. The TEAC has been playing all week and I am shipping the Lynx back to it's owner on Monday, so with any luck I can lock myself in the listening room and play geek for a while. That's good geek news to me, for the low price of the TEAC, should it prove out, and for another reason I will share below.I made note of the settings that make the VEGA sound very much like the exaSound, so that may provide some idea of how they compare. I did use a well filtered linear PS when I had the exaSound, so it was fairly optimal. The others all have internal power supplies but I'm using the same cords on all of them, a DIY version of the Less Loss cable. I'll try and provide more detailed information after I do some level matched comparisons.

mike

Mike: I did a fair amount of research today. One of my fantasies in the years leading up to my current retirement was that I would have all the time I wished for doing hobbies-restoring old Dynakit Mk. III mono tube amps (4), reconfiguring Transcendent T-8 mono OTL amps to use commonly available tubes (vs. the old 3-nipple EL509s, now virtually extinct), learning piano and guitar, and maybe putting together a very modest recording set-up in the man cave. Today I discovered that the Lynx Hilo--that small box--is a veritable recording studio in a can. OK, slight exaggeration, but it is a truly amazing machine, and they turn it into an even better,more powerful one all the time with firmware updated via FGPA. I have been saying I didn't really want to spend near the top of my budget on a DAC alone at this time,. but now I must think about how much those hobby activities (the music playing and recording) might matter to me. If I had to pay separately for al the functions in the Hilo, it's almost as if the DAC is cheap. The sound is apparently of the squeaky clean or crystal clear variety but not forward or brutal like the Mytek. One reviewer even described it as warmer and sweeter vs. some other pro DAC. Very tempting, but I'm still hoping the TEAC HD-501 turns in a strong performance. A Hilo I could buy now I could also buy later. Meanwhile, the HD-501 is one-third the price. BTW, the Hilo has an available battery pack for location recording.


Thanks for your reply.  Jeffrey