DSD DACs

ted_b · « **Reply #220 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 04:51 pm »

Quote from: PhilipAC on 29 Mar 2013, 04:37 pm

Forgive me if I'm missing something, Ted, but I thought you (and many others) favoured listening to music in its native format? With these DACS, presumably
one can't listen to any PCM files in their native format? Wouldn't it be better to have a DAC where any up sampling/conversion is optional?

The native format is preserved on output to analog. It's just that it is not a NOS DAC. All non-NOS DACs (90% of whats out there) upsample/oversample internally...kinda like making sausage...you don't wanna know what they go through. I prefer they do their thing via DSD than via some sort of delta-sigma work. The opposite would be those DSD-capable DACs that ttake DSD and do a lot of internal processing with multi-bit processors then convert back to DSD. It's not PCM-to-DSD mind you, but it is less stright forward than NOS (non oversampling).

I am thinking of doing a paper with Jussi Laako from Signalyst; a sort of Dummies Guide to DAC architecture. He is the tech, I am the dummy to translate to us audiophools. The tradeoffs about ladder DACs, ring DACS, sigma-delta, 1 bit..how they do PCm and DSD...what is NOS....etc etc.

PhilipAC · « **Reply #221 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 05:15 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 29 Mar 2013, 04:51 pm

The native format is preserved on output to analog.

I can see that DSD is preserved, but if a PCM signal goes into the DAC and gets converted to DSD128 before being converted to analogue, how is the native PCM
being preserved?

PS Your paper sounds fascinating!

PhilipAC · « **Reply #222 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: Maxvla on 29 Mar 2013, 04:45 pm

I'd have to hear it to believe something with that much going on inside it isn't compromised.

But the new Matrix has similar specs to the TEAC, and you and your pals thought it sounded great, as far as I can tell?

I'm not trying to be clever- I ask because I'm shortly going to choose between the TEAC and the Matrix as a short-term option.

wisnon · « **Reply #223 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 07:16 pm »

Quote from: Maxvla on 29 Mar 2013, 04:45 pm

I'd have to hear it to believe something with that much going on inside it isn't compromised.

A poster (Valenroy) who has it and the Mytek says that while its so-so on PCM but equal to the Mytek on DSD.!

wisnon · « **Reply #224 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 08:33 pm »

Monster X-sabre thread here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650686/new-flagship-dac-from-matrix-audio-the-x-sabre

Maxvla · « **Reply #225 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 04:08 am »

Quote from: PhilipAC on 29 Mar 2013, 05:19 pm

But the new Matrix has similar specs to the TEAC, and you and your pals thought it sounded great, as far as I can tell?

I'm not trying to be clever- I ask because I'm shortly going to choose between the TEAC and the Matrix as a short-term option.

The X-Sabre is very well shielded and does not include an amplifier in the same box. The inside of the TEAC looks like a computer case and we all know how well those are shielded.

Maxvla · « **Reply #226 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 04:09 am »

Quote from: wisnon on 29 Mar 2013, 07:16 pm

A poster (Valenroy) who has it and the Mytek says that while its so-so on PCM but equal to the Mytek on DSD.!

Group of my friends (not local) had the Mytek to demo and thought it was quite bad, so for TEAC's sake, I hope not.

wisnon · « **Reply #227 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 09:23 am »

The Mytek is very well described in Monster threads at Comp Audiophile as well as here. Ted has one and so does Mike (who won one from Tone Audio). The feedback on DSD playback has always been good.

When you say the Teac has an amp inside, do you mean a Headphone amp? Shielding seems OK from the pictures as I see STEEL separating the power system (not CNC machined from aluminum as in the case of the X-Sabre) from the Digital section. Dual mono power supply should ensure top notch clean/stable power.

Audistream reviewed it well: http://www.audiostream.com/content/teac-ud-501-dual-monarual-pcmdsd-usb-digital-analog-converter

quicksound · « **Reply #228 on:** 1 Apr 2013, 07:55 pm »

After taking a look at the DSD Database table (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0), can someone explain how the Wyred4Sound DAC2 is DSD64 and DSD128 compatible? I looked at the Wyred4Sound website and they don't mention DSD playback under the "features" section for the DAC2 - you think they would emphasize that point if it were in fact true.

ted_b · « **Reply #229 on:** 1 Apr 2013, 08:23 pm »

Quote from: quicksound on 1 Apr 2013, 07:55 pm

After taking a look at the DSD Database table (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0), can someone explain how the Wyred4Sound DAC2 is DSD64 and DSD128 compatible? I looked at the Wyred4Sound website and they don't mention DSD playback under the "features" section for the DAC2 - you think they would emphasize that point if it were in fact true.

I think it is a mistaken entry. I don't do all of them; someone claimed that DSD was available through I²S (like other SABRE dacs) but I have no substantiation. Good find! I will correct it if I find no info.

Maxvla · « **Reply #230 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 02:52 am »

The Matrix X-Sabre is listed at $1299, but actually sells for $1099, it is also now shipping.

ted_b · « **Reply #231 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 03:50 am »

Quote from: Maxvla on 2 Apr 2013, 02:52 am

The Matrix X-Sabre is listed at $1299, but actually sells for $1099, it is also now shipping.

Fixed it....thx

quicksound · « **Reply #232 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 11:23 pm »

Has anyone had the chance to compare the Chord QuteHD and the Sonore/exD DSD DAC? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

wisnon · « **Reply #233 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 11:28 pm »

Audiostream has just reviewed the Auralic Vega and is raving. 6 Moons did a part 1 review with the conclusion yet to come.

ted_b · « **Reply #234 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 11:51 pm »

Quote from: quicksound on 2 Apr 2013, 11:23 pm

Has anyone had the chance to compare the Chord QuteHD and the Sonore/exD DSD DAC? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Soon will have the Chord, and I kinda remember the exD.

wisnon · « **Reply #235 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 11:43 am »

Interesting excerpt from the NOW COMPLETED 6 moons review of the Auralic Vega:

"The DAC's power supply was revised several times to meet true bit-resolution requirements. The most difficult part during this development was figuring out how to best harness the ES9018. Its datasheet is an error-riddled nightmare with lots of vital information missing. We would like to openly thank everyone on diyaudio.com for their help on how to wring the most performance from this freaky chip. Another big event during development was the added support for DSD. It's actually no big deal to modify software code to support the format but hardware—especially analog circuitry—had to be completely redesigned to suit DSD's sonic character. From that perspective I very much doubt that any DAC which adds subsequent DSD support via a basic firmware upgrade will offer comparable sound. The Vega was designed from the ground up to optimize DSD playback."

mav52 · « **Reply #236 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 01:31 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 2 Apr 2013, 11:51 pm

Soon will have the Chord,

I'm looking forward to that review

rklein · « **Reply #237 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 02:21 pm »

I think that it is a very good thing that so many affordable choices are becoming available in regards to DSD capable DACS.

I have to say that I am extremely happy with how my Exasound E20 DAC has broken in.

While there are numerous reports about the DSD playback quality of various DACS, I would like to share that the E20 is the best DAC I have had in my humble system regarding Redbook as well as HiRez material.

As much as we talk about DSD (don't get me wrong...I am a HUGE FAN - thx, Ted

), the fact remains that RB material makes up more than 95% of my music library and at $2,500 the E20 holds it's own very nicely.

Regards,

Randy

wisnon · « **Reply #238 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 03:07 pm »

very good Randy.

I love my Lampi G4 L4 for PCM and the Chord for DSD and PCM too.

PhilipAC · « **Reply #239 on:** 6 Apr 2013, 09:16 am »

Well guys, I received yesterday my new Auralic Vega. It is obviously not burnt-in yet, but it already sounds wonderful. Not surprisingly, it is very good on DSD,
but I'm sitting here listening to Martha Argerich in her CLASSIC recording of Rach 3-quite old RBPCM- and it is stunningly good.

It is going to take longer (as it burns in) to decide whether it is as musical and emotional as my Vertex Aletheia NOS R2R DAC, but my goodness it has made
a fine start!