AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => NuForce => Topic started by: John Casler on 3 Aug 2013, 05:50 pm
-
Most knew it was coming, but it crept up on us.
The NuFORCE MCP-18 MultiChannel Preamp is now shipping
TAKE A LOOK HERE (https://www.nuforce.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=313:mcp-18&Itemid=1043&utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email)
(https://www.nuforce.com/images/mcp-18_main.png)
List price is $995
Includes XLR input and outputs
(https://www.nuforce.com/media/k2/galleries/313/mcp18-gallery-5.jpg)
-
It appears it is not available yet on from Nuforce's estore. I would like place an order. I would like to apply the 20% discount, as I am a current owner of the AVP-17.
-
This is totally awesome! ...And strictly analog too! 8)
...Perfect for a hi-end stereo rig and a hi-end multichannel surround sound system using a hi-end Blu-ray player like the Oppo BDP-105.
And here you don't have any video and digital contamination!
Beats anything out there this side of the Pacific (and Atlantic) ocean!
-
Exactly. . . :thumb:
-
...And no phono preamp contamination either!
And no headphone amp contamination either!
And no Ethernet contamination! ...Not even a possible USB contaminator culprit!
This is simply the perfect analog stereo/multichannel preamp for serious people!
P.S. Where do I apply for the job? :wink::green:
-
...And no phono preamp contamination either!
And no headphone amp contamination either!
And no Ethernet contamination! ...Not even a possible USB contaminator culprit!
This is simply the perfect analog stereo/multichannel preamp for serious people!
P.S. Where do I apply for the job? :wink::green:
What job would you like? :scratch:
-
What job would you like? :scratch:
I was just kidding; I don't wanna work for nobody, ever! :green:
-
Wow - great price too. Looks like a much better version than the old Sony TA-P9000ES with extra inputs (including balanced) and balanced outs too. I never understood why a product like this wasn't put out. I sold my Sony TA-P9000ES many after buying it for $450 for not a whole lot less than the list price of this and had people fighting over it.
-
I never understood why a product like this wasn't put out.
There was, the Parasound Halo P7 preamp has been out for a number of years. Although it has some nice additional features (analog bass management among others), perhaps its (2X) MSRP of $2K was just too high for the intended market?
Steve
-
It appears it is not available yet on from Nuforce's estore. I would like place an order. I would like to apply the 20% discount, as I am a current owner of the AVP-17.
PM sent.
-
A great piece of AV equipment provided there is a typo in the link's published "output impedance" specification: 47K ohms is way to large. At the recommended prudent minimum 10X1 ratio between power amp and pre impedance, if correct, that spec would mean required amplifier input impedance of at least 470k ohms!!!
I am sure there is a typo since all other NuForce preamps have 100 ohms output impedance.
Mario
-
Wow.
I would have guessed $3k. That's a steal under $1k if performance is good. I think they almost have to work to screw up a plain old line stage these days.
-
Numerically Controlled Volume Control; ...I've got to smile a little here. :D
-
Wow.
I would have guessed $3k. That's a steal under $1k if performance is good. I think they almost have to work to screw up a plain old line stage these days.
Jim, this and the AVP-18 are what I was referring to when you were looking for something like this, but the MCP-18 was not available at the time.
-
Jim, this and the AVP-18 are what I was referring to when you were looking for something like this, but the MCP-18 was not available at the time.
Thanks! Looks like the perfect complement for a Trinaural based system, allowing (I presume) remote adjustment of Center Ch and Bass level.
There is a great recent discussion at DIYAudio, in which myself, Lynn Olson, and possibly another agreed that C Ch trim is critical with a proper 3-ch system. Conversely, Trinaural inventor Bongiorno sternly instructs users to set and forget C Ch level. On this point, I can only presume the late Brian Cheney would have preferred remote C Ch trim. This is based on the fact that, IIRC, he never ceased making C Ch trim adjustments on the Trinaural faceplate the year he displayed it at CES and Trinaural won Best of High End Award. I'd go so far as to say I'd switch back to measly stereo if I had to go without remote C Ch trim, and that's saying a lot because properly setup Trinaural kills stereo.
Does this allow for remote channel trim? Range? Volume steps (I can live with 1 dB).
Trinaural system setup allowing C Ch (and Bass trim if subs present, which should be) looks like this:
Source stereo analog output > Trinaural 3.0 or 3.1 output > NuForce MCP-18 with remote ch trim > power amps including sub amps if present.
Whereas, "normal" (what I'd call inadequate) Trinaural setup looks like this:
Source stereo analog output > stereo preamp > Trinural 3.0/3.1 output > power amps including subs if present.
I know, it may seem like too much hassle to trim C Ch depending on software. You won't think so if you hear it. Most times you can set it once per album. Albums with wide variety of recording venues might require separate setting per track.
It's worth it.
As per every preamp with which I've tried this, I can not more highly recommend shorting every single open unused input on this lovely new NuForce preamp.
IIRC, twenty years ago Steve McCormack's MAP-1 had only six unbalanced channels with $2500 MSRP.
-
Thanks! Looks like the perfect complement for a Trinaural based system, allowing (I presume) remote adjustment of Center Ch and Bass level.
Yes, the MCP-18 has individual and remote adjustment to "all" channels, including the sub (.1) channel.
There is a great recent discussion at DIYAudio, in which myself, Lynn Olson, and possibly another agreed that C Ch trim is critical with a proper 3-ch system. Conversely, Trinaural inventor Bongiorno sternly instructs users to set and forget C Ch level. On this point, I can only presume the late Brian Cheney would have preferred remote C Ch trim. This is based on the fact that, IIRC, he never ceased making C Ch trim adjustments on the Trinaural faceplate the year he displayed it at CES and Trinaural won Best of High End Award. I'd go so far as to say I'd switch back to measly stereo if I had to go without remote C Ch trim, and that's saying a lot because properly setup Trinaural kills stereo.
Does this allow for remote channel trim? Range? Volume steps (I can live with 1 dB).
Yes. it does over the full range of the channel in what appear to be 1dB steps, thus the term numerically controlled volume.
Trinaural system setup allowing C Ch (and Bass trim if subs present, which should be) looks like this:
Source stereo analog output > Trinaural 3.0 or 3.1 output > NuForce MCP-18 with remote ch trim > power amps including sub amps if present.
Whereas, "normal" (what I'd call inadequate) Trinaural setup looks like this:
Source stereo analog output > stereo preamp > Trinural 3.0/3.1 output > power amps including subs if present.
I know, it may seem like too much hassle to trim C Ch depending on software. You won't think so if you hear it. Most times you can set it once per album. Albums with wide variety of recording venues might require separate setting per track.
It's worth it.
As per every preamp with which I've tried this, I can not more highly recommend shorting every single open unused input on this lovely new NuForce preamp.
IIRC, twenty years ago Steve McCormack's MAP-1 had only six unbalanced channels with $2500 MSRP.
Yes, the old SONY, and Steve's MAP-1 were early attempts at this type of component.
The remote shown on the website, is actually the AVP-18 remote, which also has a section to control the MCP-18.
I believe the MCP-18 also comes with its own mini-remote (I have one with mine) that allows you to select the individual channels and adjust the trim on each.
-
Prior to having a remote preamp with known dB steps, I presumed .5 dB was the largest acceptable step size. Now I have several years experience with a preamp having two step sizes, 1 dB in the analog domain and .5 dB in the digital domain.
I now think 1 dB step size is fine and not too large, though larger step size is unacceptable. Ayre just released a $10k integrated with steps larger than 1 dB, 1.5 dB IIRC.
For the cost I presume this new NuForce is made in Asia...if this is made in the USA the price is even more remarkable.
-
Nice! Where was this ten years ago after Sony stupidly killed the TA-P9000ES? I was fortunate to get one of the TA-Ps before they disappeared, and my only complaint is that it only has two active inputs. Looks like the MCP-18 has five: two 7.1, two stereo, one balanced stereo.
I may have to put one of these on my list for 2014.
Russ
-
Yeah, the more you lean about this thing the better it looks. I'll have to hear it at the first opportunity.
-
John,
Questions for you.
If the multichannel single ended inputs are chosen (let's say with an Oppo BDP 95 as a source) are both the multichannel XLR outputs and single ended RCA outputs useable at the same time? Or must one choose either balanced or single ended outputs? Is the +/- trim available for EACH output separately?
Thanks,
Anand.
-
John,
Questions for you.
If the multichannel single ended inputs are chosen (let's say with an Oppo BDP 95 as a source) are both the multichannel XLR outputs and single ended RCA outputs useable at the same time? Or must one choose either balanced or single ended outputs? Is the +/- trim available for EACH output separately?
Thanks,
Anand.
Hi Anand,
The only thing selectable is the "input". The Outputs are all live. For example, I have my Surrounds and Sub running off the RCA's and my frontal LCR off the XLR.
You cannot trim the outputs separately, but you can trim each channel separately.
-
Excellent question, Anand! My guess is unbalanced source = unbalanced output only, balanced source = balanced and unbalanced output.
John, sorry if you answered this already...what is channel trim range in dB?
-
Excellent question, Anand! My guess is unbalanced source = unbalanced output only, balanced source = balanced and unbalanced output.
All Source Inputs are selectable.
Both RCA and XLR Ouputs are hot at all times from ALL sources when selected.
John, sorry if you answered this already...what is channel trim range in dB?
I just checked, and channel trim and volume control are in .5 db increments, not 1 db as I initially thought.
-
John,
Questions for you.
If the multichannel single ended inputs are chosen (let's say with an Oppo BDP 95 as a source) are both the multichannel XLR outputs and single ended RCA outputs useable at the same time? Or must one choose either balanced or single ended outputs? Is the +/- trim available for EACH output separately?
Thanks,
Anand.
The idea behind the MCP-18 is that it has to perform seamlessly as a 2-channel stereo preamp, and then work as a 7.1 system, where we expect there may be a MCH SACD player and a Home0theater processor or high-end BD player with analog output.
For a 2-channel person with more than 2 sources, he can utilize the MCH inputs as well, by just connecting to the L/R out of the 8 channels.
The outputs are simultaneously distributed to both RCA and XLR at all times, regardless of which input (RCA or XLR being selected).
Please don't underestimate the performance based on the MSRP, as the MCP-18 uses discrete switched thin film resistor ladder attenuator in the main L and R channels. This volume control technology is unmatched in accurate channel tracking and transparency.
-
So trim steps are .5 dB...great!
What is dB range for trim function?
For instance, on my current preamp trim range is +/- 10dB. Also, on my current preamp, whatever channel is boosted, overall gain is cut by the same magnitude. For instance, if I boost C Ch +10 dB, the preamp looses 10dB of global gain vs. trim set flat or cut.
Same with MCP-18?
-
So trim steps are .5 dB...great!
What is dB range for trim function?
For instance, on my current preamp trim range is +/- 10dB. Also, on my current preamp, whatever channel is boosted, overall gain is cut by the same magnitude. For instance, if I boost C Ch +10 dB, the preamp looses 10dB of global gain vs. trim set flat or cut.
Same with MCP-18?
To be precise, the UNITY Volume trim steps are .5db, from 0db to 99db.
The individual channel trim steps are 1db and have a range of + 20db or - 20db
-
To be precise, the UNITY Volume trim steps are .5db, from 0db to 99db.
The individual channel trim steps are 1db and have a range of + 20db or - 20db
John,
Wow, +/- 20 dB trim range is great. Doubt anyone could need more.
Just so buyer's are not surprised later: if, for instance, one channel is trimmed +"X" dB, is global gain decreased by the same "X" dB? For instance, one channel trimmed +10 dB = maximum global gain 99 dB - 10 dB = 89 dB.
-
Are the balanced outputs buffered from the un-balanced outputs? Don't want to have connecting an RCA output messing up the balanced output.
-
Are the balanced outputs buffered from the un-balanced outputs? Don't want to have connecting an RCA output messing up the balanced output.
They are buffered, both XLR and RCA output can be utilized at the same time.
-
: if, for instance, one channel is trimmed +"X" dB, is global gain decreased by the same "X" dB? For instance, one channel trimmed +10 dB = maximum global gain 99 dB - 10 dB = 89 dB.
Unity gain is at #85, maximum gain is 15dB. Therefore, if Center channel is trimmed +10dB, then at #90, the Center channel will plateau while the other channels' volume goes up. i.e. At #92, Center has only +8dB gain relative to other channels.
-
My preamp arrived early this week, I will be running it through the paces
-
Unity gain is at #85, maximum gain is 15dB. Therefore, if Center channel is trimmed +10dB, then at #90, the Center channel will plateau while the other channels' volume goes up. i.e. At #92, Center has only +8dB gain relative to other channels.
If I understand this correctly, the trim is not fixed. IOW, in the example, trim is +15 dB (that's a huge figure, admittedly, and only in the case of wildly different amp and/or speaker sensitivity) below 85dB global gain, but then the trim diminishes past 85 dB.
It seems like it would make more sense for the preamp to stop at 85 dB rather than change the trim automatically.
-
If I understand this correctly, the trim is not fixed. IOW, in the example, trim is +15 dB (that's a huge figure, admittedly, and only in the case of wildly different amp and/or speaker sensitivity) below 85dB global gain, but then the trim diminishes past 85 dB.
It seems like it would make more sense for the preamp to stop at 85 dB rather than change the trim automatically.
Assuming you trim the center channel and listening to a 2-ch source (from a Smart Phone?) that needs to move the volume to #99, then the above UI design is more intuitive.
-
Looks like we will have a B-STOCK MCP-18 shortly.
If anyone is interested PM me.
-
I would like to apply the 20% discount, as I am a current owner of the AVP-17.
Can you please provide a link explaining this 20% discount?
Update: just found it on another thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118355.0
-
As someone who has owned a McCormack MAP-1 for several years, I've wondered why more manufacturers don't offer a product like this. To the folks at NuForce, may I just say :thumb:
-
Looks like we will have a B-STOCK MCP-18 shortly.
If anyone is interested PM me.
Yes, it is available.
-
More information and ideas about the versatility of the MCP-18
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119674.msg1258321#msg1258321
-
Is the B-stock MCP-18 still available?
-
Yes, I do have one MCP-18 B-Stock.
-
Cool - I can't pm since I only have 1 post (2 after this) but maybe you can pm me the info?
Thanks!
-
How can you integrate a two channel tube preamp into this system?.
Thanks,
Russ
-
I prefer the design of the Parasound, which also has a phono input (I have a turntable). But Parasound only recently started making the P7 in black, and they still include a silver remote because they say making a black one was too expensive. Hmm..
I want to see the remote for the Nuforce.
-
Oh dear. I have seen the NuForce MCP-18 remote. It looks like something that comes with a $20 clock radio from Walmart. Not a product I'll be buying.
-
Have there been any reviews of the MCP-18? How about comparisons to the Parasound P7? I have been looking for something like this for awhile now. It looks like the perfect companion for my BDP-105/Butler setup.
-
Have there been any reviews of the MCP-18? How about comparisons to the Parasound P7? I have been looking for something like this for awhile now. It looks like the perfect companion for my BDP-105/Butler setup.
Not aware of any actual reviews of the unit, since it is somewhat different than pre-pros out there.
But it is exceptionally accurate, and has less in the signal path to affect the sound.
I have one in my system and it is great.
I might add that the P7 is more focused on having additional functions, such as subwoofer output, headphone output, and phono preamp, that will make it either cost more or potentially dilute the quality by spreading the unit cost over more components.
Both have value to the right person looking for either limited circuitry or specific functions. In this case, I think the P7 is 2 x as much as the MCP-18.
-
Hello,
I'm also interrested by this MPC 18.
I try to find the owner manual of this model in Nuforce website but got only a very light document without deep instruction and possibility.
Someone know where we can find this full manual ?
thanks in advance
-
The MCP-18 is developed to be an audiophile grade pure analog preamp, it uses our discrete switched resistor attenuater first appeared on our P20 preamp for the front 2-channel. The purity and fidelity of the front channel, in our view, is critical.
We are not aware of any competitor near this price point is able to offer such volume control. The same volume control is also implemented in HAP-100, which won The Absolute Sound Product of the Year 2013 Award.
The most important feature we have in MCP is the ability to fine-tuned down to 0.5dB on each 7.1 channel. The bass management today, are mostly done at the Processor/BD player lever for movies, and in the subwoofer itself if analog; so we do not offer, and we do not want to distract the goal of achieving the purest signal path.
-
Hello.
I'm about to expose myself as someone who lacks the experience to understand the significance of this analog preamp. :? Try not to laugh too hard.
How would I hook up my TV to this preamp? (via my Oppo 103?)
What are the advantages to using this preamp over a similar preamp that relies on HDMI?
Do I still want to have a DAC?
I look forward to reading any input on this. Thank you for your patience.
-
Hello.
I'm about to expose myself as someone who lacks the experience to understand the significance of this analog preamp. :? Try not to laugh too hard.
How would I hook up my TV to this preamp? (via my Oppo 103?)
What are the advantages to using this preamp over a similar preamp that relies on HDMI?
Do I still want to have a DAC?
I look forward to reading any input on this. Thank you for your patience.
Your OPPO 103 has 2 HDMI inputs that can be used for other sources. It also has 7.1 analog outputs.
I assume you are talking about either a Satellite or Cable Source that feeds your TV.
You would take the HDMI output of your Satellite or Cable Box and run it into your OPPO BDP-103 HDMI "input".
Select the HDMI input, using the OPPO Remote (see your manual for details) and you will then get both Audio and Video to and through the OPPO.
I will assume that you already have an HDMI connection from the OPPO to your TV, so that connection will carry the Video, while the 7.1 analog outs from the MCP-18 will carry the Audio.
-
John,
Thank you. :thumb:
Until very recently, I had been under the impression that HDMI was 'the best' connection for both video and audio. This impression came to me thanks to zealous clerks/salespersons extolling the virtues of HDMI. How was I to know balanced connections are far superior?
Correct me if I am wrong:
Nuforce sells two slightly different units: the AVP-18 Preamp/Processor, and the MCP-18 Preamp/Processor. The advantage of the MCP unit is its ability to use balanced connections thereby allowing for better audio. Most folks who lack understanding/experience with balanced connectors (or lack interest?) would naturally opt for the AVP-18 unit because they like the simplicity and, perhaps, mistakenly think HDMI is the 'best' connection available. OTOH folks who understand the benefits of balanced connections would jump at the chance to buy the MCP-18 unit because they would be able to listen to both HT audio and two-channel audio with the best possible sound. The video is still handled by the HDMI connection via the universal (or DVD, Bluray) player.
The above explanation (realization?) would help explain why the posters in this thread were so excited about the introduction of the MCP-18, correct?
The correction between the amplifier and the preamp is made using the RCA connections, yes?
I've never used separates before, so I do not know. :(
Regards....
-
John,
Thank you. :thumb:
Until very recently, I had been under the impression that HDMI was 'the best' connection for both video and audio. This impression came to me thanks to zealous clerks/salespersons extolling the virtues of HDMI. How was I to know balanced connections are far superior?
Actually a balanced connection has some advantages, especially over longer runs, but in shorter runs, it is very similar in sound quality, with good quality cables.
I personally like XLR connectors too, simply because the connections are "always" tight and cannot wiggle loose if you have to move components or re-position occasionally.
Correct me if I am wrong:
Nuforce sells two slightly different units: the AVP-18 Preamp/Processor, and the MCP-18 Preamp/Processor. The advantage of the MCP unit is its ability to use balanced connections thereby allowing for better audio. Most folks who lack understanding/experience with balanced connectors (or lack interest?) would naturally opt for the AVP-18 unit because they like the simplicity and, perhaps, mistakenly think HDMI is the 'best' connection available. OTOH folks who understand the benefits of balanced connections would jump at the chance to buy the MCP-18 unit because they would be able to listen to both HT audio and two-channel audio with the best possible sound. The video is still handled by the HDMI connection via the universal (or DVD, Bluray) player.
The above explanation (realization?) would help explain why the posters in this thread were so excited about the introduction of the MCP-18, correct?
The correction between the amplifier and the preamp is made using the RCA connections, yes?
I've never used separates before, so I do not know. :(
Regards....
There are many differences between a "MCP-18 Preamp" and the "AVP-18 PrePro", the most significant of which is that a Preamp does "NO DIGITAL PROCESSING" or video switching and is all minimal circuitry analog. The AVP-18 PrePro on the other hand, is "all digital" and does all the DAC and processing functions, as well as video switching.
You are correct, that the MCP-18 is best used for the Audio Purist who wishes to have the best combination of 2 channel and Multichannel Audio in the same system, and has a Disc Player, or other multichannel source that has High Quality Analog output signals, but also might wants to have a High Quality 2 channel DAC, and or other analog sources like a Turntable and High Quality Phono Preamp, separate from the preamp.
I might also add that the two units are also designed to "work together" for those who want a "complete package" of the combined functions. In fact the AVP-18 remote also controls the MCP-18.
Even in combination, the two units are at a price point ($1095 + $995 = $2090) that cannot be easily matched for the performance and capabilities of the pair.
-
John,
Thank you.
I'm not entirely certain that I am an audio purist at this time although I think I'm somewhere along that journey. I have no TT. All my source is digital--either disk-based, stored in my computer, or streamed through my SB Touch. I definitely like to upgrade components as either money becomes available or I discover a higher quality device.
I can't help but wonder if the AVP-18 PrePro might be a more appropriate first step for me. Then, if I deem it important enough, I could add the MCP-18 into the mix(?). I think I need to better understand all the advantages before I decide. I'd like to ask more questions if you don't mind....[no need!]
I just finished reading this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115839.20 followed by RickyDeg's review followed by the Nuforce website's FAQ. I'm up to speed (I think).
I'll buy the AVP-18 pre/pro! Perhaps, in the future, I will see a need to add the MCP-18, but I can confidently start with the AVP-18. I had already decided on an amp before finding this thread, so I expect to be quite happy once the two units are 'married' to my speakers and TV. I just have to wait a bit till everything (myself included) is in place.
Thank you for your input, sir! :D :D
-
Can anyone tell me if this unit is fully balanced? I read through the thread and didn't see mention of this.
Thanks!
-
Hi,
It has 2 fully-balanced input, and a set of fully balanced 7.1 output.
-
Why haven't I seen this? Now that I've seen it, I have to hear it. This is what I have been looking for - I think.
I sold my Allnic L3000 tube preamp. I am using the Anti-Mode 2.0 to perform room correction focused only at the lower frequencies up to 500Hz but generally only touch up to 300Hz where most of the bad happens. I'm using 4 subwoofers. I have a pair of Clearwave R5's which use Raal tweeters and Scan speak mids. The Antimode blends the subs perfectly so I don't need or want additional processing to screw with my sound.
Problem is, I moved my multichannel system into my 2 channel room. We really like Blue-ray audio and I get tired of moving the Oppo BDP 105 from room to room. But having just the Oppo to perform 2 channel then switching to multichannel is a major pain in the ass. Why? I have a BMC 2 channel amp that drives the R5's. I have a 7 channel Arcam amp driving the remaining center and surrounds and the subs are all self powered but get room corrected by the other set of outputs from the Anti-mode.
I know this is hard to visualize but trust me, it gets old swapping cables around.
2 channel is important and multichannel just needs to work well considering the components we enjoy. But the choices for AV processors out there... :evil: The Cary is the only processor I see worth a damn that wouldn't screw with the pure sound we are enjoying in my 2 channel world.
I wished for a preamp that could handle 7 channels, but brilliantly passed 2 channel. Oppo can perform the balancing act. Anti-Mode performs the cross-over and DSP duties to the 4 subs.
Am I missing something? Jason, you there. I'm practically your neighbor and have visited your store and bought your products in the past. Would like to try your MCP-18.
For those of you who are new to Nuforce, Nuforce and Pass Labs are the 2 best audio outfits I've ever worked with. I had blown up one of my Nuforce 9SEV2 amps one day and called to Jason and told him what I'd done. It was clearly my fault. He told me to bring the dead amp to the office and they would look at it. later that day they called for me to come pick up my amp. They had replaced the board at no charge. Think of that. Fixed within the day! No charge. :thumb:
-
Not sure if this has been posted, but Audio Advisor is running the MCP-18 on a really generous sale right now. I picked one up this week.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/NuForce-MCP-18-2-Channel-or-Multi-Channel-Preamplifier/productinfo/NUMCP18/#.U6-Ln_ldUhY
I will post a review once the unit has arrived and I am able to do a shootout against my MSB MVC and a Crane Song Avocet mastering studio unit. I know the Crane Song is a very expensive piece, but a few years ago when I got the MVC, we did a level matched shootout and it really held it's own very well again the Avocet. I'm hoping for at least the same result, since I need multiple inputs and balanced outs.
Greg
-
Not sure if this has been posted, but Audio Advisor is running the MCP-18 on a really generous sale right now. I picked one up this week.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/NuForce-MCP-18-2-Channel-or-Multi-Channel-Preamplifier/productinfo/NUMCP18/#.U6-Ln_ldUhY
I will post a review once the unit has arrived and I am able to do a shootout against my MSB MVC and a Crane Song Avocet mastering studio unit. I know the Crane Song is a very expensive piece, but a few years ago when I got the MVC, we did a level matched shootout and it really held it's own very well again the Avocet. I'm hoping for at least the same result, since I need multiple inputs and balanced outs.
Greg
$599 is the new price for the MCP-18 and can be purchased through any NuFORCE Dealer.
-
$599 is the new price for the MCP-18 and can be purchased through any NuFORCE Dealer.
Are the guys at NuForce going for the "greatest deal in audio land" or something? This is fantastic news.
Greg
-
Are the guys at NuForce going for the "greatest deal in audio land" or something? This is fantastic news.
Greg
Right.
I have this preamp in my HT system and nothing can touch it sonically for the original price, much less the current price.
Even if you only need a 2 channel ONLY Preamp, this is a STEAL.
We will also have a promotion "with" the AVP-18, that makes it an even better deal for HT users coming soon.
-
Here is a link to my review in The Absolute Sound - http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nuforce-mcp-18-multichannel-analog-preamplifier/
-
Here is a link to my review in The Absolute Sound - http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nuforce-mcp-18-multichannel-analog-preamplifier/
Thank you Steven. Your review is part of the reason I pulled the trigger on this unit.
Greg
-
I am using one of these as a two-channel preamp and am simply floored by how good it is, and not just for the price. For $600 I don't feel I should complain, but I can't say I care for the remote. Question: Does anyone know if this will be offered in silver?
-
I just got home from Bob Katz studio where we put the MCP-18 through it's paces. Steven is right. This preamp is the real deal....transparent and accurate. Folks need to be buying this thing. It is an absolute steal for the new low price.
Since I've saved a few dollars, I'm ready to shop for a new DAC. Any eta for the NuPrime DAC?
Greg
-
I just got home from Bob Katz studio where we put the MCP-18 through it's paces. Steven is right. This preamp is the real deal....transparent and accurate. Folks need to be buying this thing. It is an absolute steal for the new low price.
Since I've saved a few dollars, I'm ready to shop for a new DAC. Any eta for the NuPrime DAC?
Greg
Shooting for August for the DAC-10
-
Right.
I have this preamp in my HT system and nothing can touch it sonically for the original price, much less the current price.
Even if you only need a 2 channel ONLY Preamp, this is a STEAL.
We will also have a promotion "with" the AVP-18, that makes it an even better deal for HT users coming soon.
When can we expect this combo deal :)
-
Shooting for August for the DAC-10
Thank you John, sounds good for timing. Any chance of additional details prior to release or a new thread for the DAC-10?
Greg
-
Thank you John, sounds good for timing. Any chance of additional details prior to release or a new thread for the DAC-10?
Greg
This is the "inside" scoop, but it is NOT OFFICIAL and could be extended, adjusted or changed at any time, so don't hold me to it.
DAC-10 is probably shipping end of August. The prototype is getting ready this month.
I believe DAC-10 has volume control and a remote.
DAC-10 has two versions:
1) $1495 without headphone amp
2) $1895 with headphone amp
This is preliminary pricing estimate, but could be $100-200 more depending on landed cost.
Also in the pipeline is the ST-10, which is a 2 channel stereo amp for use with the DAC-10 Just add Source and Speakers
-
I've got another question John. Is there a way to adjust the timeout of the display? It's blanking out faster than I would like. Or, could it be set to remain lit when muted and then dim to off once mute is released?
Thank you.
Greg Begland
-
john,
The price just changed back to $995 on the Oppo on line store site today. Is the $599 price the actual new retail or was that just a sale? Audio Advisor still shows them at $599.
-
I'll check.
Maybe they realized that it was not priced well at $599 for its qualities and performance.
Did you mean the "NuFORCE" online store?
-
I've got another question John. Is there a way to adjust the timeout of the display? It's blanking out faster than I would like. Or, could it be set to remain lit when muted and then dim to off once mute is released?
Thank you.
Greg Begland
Greg,
Not aware of anything, but am checking for you.
-
Yes, of course, I meant Nuforce.......they are neighbors.
-
Is there an upgraded remote that will work with the MCP-18? Can a Logitech be programmed to work?
-
I have just purchased this item and will have to sneak it into my system. One more thing to program into my universal remote. I like having one remote for all of my components. I programmed my oppo bluray and put away the factory remote.
Regards,
Richard
-
Is there an upgraded remote that will work with the MCP-18? Can a Logitech be programmed to work?
While I don't know the price, you can purchase the REMOTE that comes with the AVP-18, which controls BOTH.
See the lower "enclosed portion" labeled MCP-18
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/1113mitr.nuforcerem.jpg)
-
I received my MPC-18 last night and I must say I'm impressed with the rigidity of the chassis. Profile-wise, its dimensions are scaled perfectly to use as a platform for my Oppo 103. Got it hooked up and played multi-channel DSD files through it. Right out of the box it sounds more transparent and resolving than my now 12 year old Sony TA-P9000ES. The ability to trim channel levels via remote is a nice touch. For $599 delivered, this looks to be an excellent value.
My one complaint is the manual. There is no mention of remote control capability, or how to adjust display brightness or channel levels on the unit. When researching the unit before purchase, I had to read Steven Stone's review to get that information. Nuforce can do better than that.
I have one functional question. Are channel level settings applied universally to all inputs or can they be set differently for each input?
Russ
-
The channel setting is universal. (the idea is to keep it very simple and straight forward)
-
Thanks Casey.
-
I just unboxed this preamp and I must say it is quite a substantial unit for its size. It has some nice thick extruded aluminum sides and what appears to be an extremely massive stealth like front panel. I haven't listened to it yet but it sure looks like it could quietly sneak up on you.
It even has rubbery feet to absorb vibration.
-
FYI - The MCP-18 remote does not have discrete button commands for selecting the various inputs. The following RS232 commands are available but NuForce has confirmed that there are no corresponding Pronto (IR) hex codes for these discrete input commands (“the current software doesn’t allow it”):
Sicd Change Source to CD
Sidvd Change Source to DVD
sibal Change Source to BAL
si7ch1-1 Change Source to 7.1CH-1
si7ch1-2 Change Source to 7.1CH-2
So with regards to inputs, it’s not possible to operate from a known state with an IR Remote but rather it requires scrolling up or down through the inputs :(.
I hope that someday there will be an update…….
JM
Downingtown, PA
-
So you are calling this preamp a TOAD. Toggle/Cycling-Only Actuated device. I know this is a lame solution, but one could write a macro to scroll to the correct input and turn on the device corresponding to that that same input. Then assign another button to scroll back and then turn everything off. This is an awkward solution and even more awkwardly written. This solution has worked for me in the past when I had a problem with turning on a Sony TV to watch cable or play a bluray. This will only work if you have a remote which will do macros
-
This preamp is definitely a great deal at its current price. I tried it with my ncore and it lacked depth. I had difficulty understanding any sung lyric. Especially if there were a cacophony of instruments. All of the sonic details were audible but they appeared to come out of a single dimensional plane. At first I thought I had a speaker out of phase, but after I pulled the Ncore and put in my ancient Jeff Rowland Model 1 the curtain was drawn open and a deep musical stage spread out in front of me. (hyperbole alert)
You need exceptional electronics to make Shane McGowan's voice intelligible in the whirling compositions of the Pogues. This combination has worked wonders with "Rum Sodomy and the Lash".
I then selected Sting "Soul Cages", Jeremiah Blues (Part 1) and the music envelopes the entire wall as each musician weaves an incredible sonic tapestry. On "The Wild Wild Sea" the drums are stellar with this current set up. The thwack of the drums, during this piece, appear to fill a large space between both of my speakers and I cant stop wondering how this ancient amplifier can be driven to create such beautiful music by such a reasonably priced preamp. I am genuinely hooked.
Yes I admit the remote looks and feels like a blister pack of Suphedrine. I will definitely have to figure out a way to program another remote.
-
Hey guys I just found this thread I know its a little old but any body got more info or thoughts or mini reviews on the MCP-18 ?I have a Bel Canto Ref 500s Amp and a OPPO 105 sonus faber grand piano speakers but no preamp. Im thinking it would work well with the MCP-18 .
-
Hi RBen. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but what are you currently using for your volume control?
I don't see how you could go wrong with the MCP-18. You can use the excellent quality multi-channel output of your BDP-105 and still have a couple of MCP-18 inputs left over for other multi-channel or stereo devices if needed.
I've been using an MCP-18 for about a month as the volume control for a pair of home-built active speakers that use an MCP-18 channel for each of the four frequency bands (low, mid, high, super-high) per speaker. The MCP-18 does seem to be extremely transparent; it operates smoothly and silently; and it give the impression of a well-engineered component that's worth significantly more than the current price. Good luck with your system!
Doug
-
Hey guys I just found this thread I know its a little old but any body got more info or thoughts or mini reviews on the MCP-18 ?I have a Bel Canto Ref 500s Amp and a OPPO 105 sonus faber grand piano speakers but no preamp. Im thinking it would work well with the MCP-18 .
As a NuFORCE Dealer, I have had significant experience with the MCP-18. Also as an OPPO Dealer, I have had the same with their players.
I will work perfectly, with your OPPO 105, and better than most other Preamps, it takes advantage of the 105's XLR outputs in 2 channel by having a pair of XLR inputs for Stereo use.
-
If you were to use the XLR outputs from the Oppo BDP-105 to the XLR inputs to the MCP-18 would this connection only work durring 2 channel operation? If so would I have to change a setting in the Oppo for 2 channel operation or does it do that automaticly based on the source?
If I was watching a movie and wanted 5.1 would I have to connect the F/R and F/L RCAs in addition to the XLRs?
-
The Stereo Audio Out jacks of the Oppo BDP-105 (both unbalanced RCA and balanced XLR) are dedicated down-mixed stereo signals regardless of any audio processing settings in the setup menu. You would have to also connect the FL and FR RCA outputs for 5.1 playback.
Steve
-
If you were to use the XLR outputs from the Oppo BDP-105 to the XLR inputs to the MCP-18 would this connection only work durring 2 channel operation? If so would I have to change a setting in the Oppo for 2 channel operation or does it do that automaticly based on the source?
If I was watching a movie and wanted 5.1 would I have to connect the F/R and F/L RCAs in addition to the XLRs?
Yes, using the L&R XLR inputs will "only" send a stereo signal to the L&R XLR (or RCA) outputs.
The signal to the any of the outputs, (XLR or RCA) will be determined by whatever "INPUT" you select.
Your OPPO 105 will determine how many channels are active, and you will have to set it to the desired setting.
Check your OPPO manual regarding whether the XLR outs are active during 5.1 Playback.
(I see Steve already posted the answer while I was posting)
-
Next question: Are the 2 channel inputs (CD and DVD) straight 2 channel or can you use a subwoofer with these inputs? Thanks.
-
Next question: Are the 2 channel inputs (CD and DVD) straight 2 channel or can you use a subwoofer with these inputs? Thanks.
The 2 channel outputs are STEREO. There is no crossover circuitry in the MCP-18.
To use a SUB in two channel, simply add a "splitter" to each channel and run the left & right channels to a sub that has a low-pass filter input in it's amp.
Adjust the roll in frequency of the sub to match the roll off frequency of your L&R mains.
-
Hi John and makdoogle. I have a MCP-18. To solve the bass management issue I wired up a simple box with RCA jacks and resistors that sums the Left, Right, and LFE channels from the MCP-18 to one mono channel for the subwoofer. I soldered 1/2 watt 1000 ohm resistors to each RCA jack input (3 total), and soldered the other end of the resistors together at the mono RCA jack output for the sub. All input/output RCA jack grounds (collar) are connected together. I added a balancing transformer so I could run a balanced line to my pro electronic crossover, but that won't be necessary for most powered subs. This can be done with Radio Shack parts and a little effort.
Russ
-
Thinking about one of these as a 6 channel preamp for a stereo system consisting of a pair of satellites and 4 subs (with the DSP x-over, EQ and DACs upstream). I understand that the L/R channels are said to be a higher quality type of volume control. Does this also apply when using the 7.1 inputs?
-
Thinking about one of these as a 6 channel preamp for a stereo system consisting of a pair of satellites and 4 subs (with the DSP x-over, EQ and DACs upstream). I understand that the L/R channels are said to be a higher quality type of volume control. Does this also apply when using the 7.1 inputs?
Yes.
-
Excellent, thanks John.
-
.
-
Thanks all but I have decided to save my money and work towards a upper end preamp. You know I sent Nuforce 3 E-mail and no response And yes i cked my spam hard to buy from a company that don't respond to E-mails :(
-
I noticed the MCP-18 is not on the new Optoma NuForce product page, assuming it has been discontinued? Hope the existing ones will still be supported (warranty wise) by the new company.
http://nuforce.optoma.com/product.php (http://nuforce.optoma.com/product.php)
-
I don't see that in the Specs table.
-
I wonder how repairable the unit would be long term by someone other than NuForce ?
-
I don't see that in the Specs table.
• Maximum Output:10V RMS at L/R, 4V RMS at others
-
Yes, I see the maximum output in Volts, but that's sure not the Voltage gain.
Something else from the amazingly brief user manual--Input impedance, '47k ohm' (plenty OK), and then Output impedance, '47k ohm'. Really? if so, this preamp would sound horrible trying to drive a poweramp with a, say, 10K-Ohm input impedance. Does anyone who knows anything read these things before they're published? What is the output impedance? I'm hoping for something closer to 47 Ohms.
-
Yes, I see the maximum output in Volts, but that's sure not the Voltage gain.
Something else from the amazingly brief user manual--Input impedance, '47k ohm' (plenty OK), and then Output impedance, '47k ohm'. Really? if so, this preamp would sound horrible trying to drive a poweramp with a, say, 10K-Ohm input impedance. Does anyone who knows anything read these things before they're published? What is the output impedance? I'm hoping for something closer to 47 Ohms.
• 5 RCA (including Home Theater bypass input
• Outputs: RCA and XLR (XLR output is balanced)
• THD+N :0.002% at 1kHz
• S/N Ratio:105dB
• Frequency Response:10 to 100kHz
-0.06dB/-0.04dB 20-20kHz; -0.7dB 100kHz
• Maximum Output:10V RMS at L/R, 4V RMS at others
• Input Impedance:= 47K ohm
• Output Impedance:= 5 ohm
-
• 5 RCA (including Home Theater bypass input
• Outputs: RCA and XLR (XLR output is balanced)
• THD+N :0.002% at 1kHz
• S/N Ratio:105dB
• Frequency Response:10 to 100kHz
-0.06dB/-0.04dB 20-20kHz; -0.7dB 100kHz
• Maximum Output:10V RMS at L/R, 4V RMS at others
• Input Impedance:= 47K ohm
• Output Impedance:= 5 ohm
TY.
5 Ohms is great; where did you get this set of specs?
And Voltage gain is still missing; I guess I'll have to measure it, since Nuforce is apparently too stupid to state it.
And they don't specify how they measure SN ratio--unweighted, C-weighted, A-weighted. Oh well.
-
TY.
5 Ohms is great; where did you get this set of specs?
And Voltage gain is still missing; I guess I'll have to measure it, since Nuforce is apparently too stupid to state it.
And they don't specify how they measure SN ratio--unweighted, C-weighted, A-weighted. Oh well.
These specs come from Casey.
I will post him and clarify your interest in the "voltage gain" and S/N method.
-
Just bought one of these to replace my HT receiver. Now I need an amp. Does anybody have any experience with the sister amp (MCA-18)?