AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Power Conditioning => Topic started by: Wig on 9 Dec 2020, 09:21 pm
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Over the past 7 years I have owned at least 8 power conditioners and all of them made improvements in my system but NO where near the performance of Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136!
For the first time I’m hearing so much more information that has been buried by the barrage of ground noise; detail, ambiance, sound stage width/depth and note sustainment is remarkable by just adding this Puritan.
I have also bought their ground master device that is said to remove the noise from your audio system ground to the supplemental rod that has to be installed. This modification has been completed and I’m waiting on the device to arrive to discern any notable improvement but I’m quite happy with the results of this unit!
After listening to the youtube video, go to the 15:30 minute mark and see how much noise is removed even on dedicated lines...
Wig :thumb:
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/master-purifiers/psm136/
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/ground-master/
https://theaudiophileman.com/ground-master-puritan-review/
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/puritan/
https://www.11stereo.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VX4buciMLM
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Over the past 7 years I have owned at least 8 power conditioners and all of them made improvements in my system but NO where near the performance of Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136!
For the first time I’m hearing so much more information that has been buried by the barrage of ground noise; detail, ambiance, sound stage width/depth and note sustainment is remarkable by just adding this Puritan.
I have also bought their ground master device that is said to remove the noise from your audio system ground to the supplemental rod that has to be installed. This modification has been completed and I’m waiting on the device to arrive to discern any notable improvement but I’m quite happy with the results of this unit!
After listening to the youtube video, go to the 15:30 minute mark and see how much noise is removed even on dedicated lines...
Wig :thumb:
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/master-purifiers/psm136/
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/ground-master/
https://theaudiophileman.com/ground-master-puritan-review/
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/puritan/
https://www.11stereo.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VX4buciMLM
I've had many power conditioners including several "power regenerators," but none helped much with the noise in my system after dark. During the day I get pristine sound, but soon as sundown arrives it all goes in the toilet. Hope springs eternal. Where'd you get this unit and at what cost in $? Thanks.
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I've had many power conditioners including several "power regenerators," but none helped much with the noise in my system after dark. During the day I get pristine sound, but soon as sundown arrives it all goes in the toilet. Hope springs eternal. Where'd you get this unit and at what cost in $? Thanks.
Randy,
I bought mines for $1.6K from 11 stereo.com; Mike Powell
Wig
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Just had mine arrive today.
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Just had mine arrive today.
PSM156 or PSM136?
I've had a PSM156 for a couple weeks. Purchased from Albert at Precision Audio Video in Chicago https://www.pavchicago.com/brands-we-offer (https://www.pavchicago.com/brands-we-offer)
There has been a periodic faint buzz ~3-4 seconds long in my speakers, that happens maybe once a day. It sounds like a heating element or something like that kicking on/off, very much periodic. I can hear it in both my HT and 2CH systems upstairs, even heard it downstairs today on my computer speakers. I've never been able to track this one down, drives me crazy. NONE of the power conditioning/surge products I've had in house seemed to faze it, DIY double Felix, Uber, Furman, Zero Surge, SurgeX, Panamax, you name it.
With the Puritan, I have not heard the noise a single time, killed it dead, zip :o
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56
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56
What's your system now?
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Another Puritan Audio fan here, purchased from Audio Archon. I have had the 1512 for months now and it is the best power line conditioner i have ever owned! It has filtering to remove DC (among other things) which makes anything with a transformer sound much quieter. All receptacles are independent of each other, so no cross contamination from different components. Also, I thought my previous conditioner did not limit current...that is until I tried the Puritan. My amp sounds like it is on steroids with much better clarity and dynamics. Mine came with a very flexible 20 amp power cord and according to Mike from Audio Archon, the cord is excellent. The owner/engineer of Puritan formerly worked on British nuclear subs, so I guess he knows a thing or two about noise reduction.
Wig: I am very interested in reading your thoughts on the "ground master".
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Has anyone come across a comparison between the 136 and 156?? I'm not sure which one best fits my needs.
Thanks.
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Has anyone come across a comparison between the 136 and 156?? I'm not sure which one best fits my needs.
Thanks.
Their website mentions more filtering elements as you move up the line.
https://theaudiophileman.com/psm-156/
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Has anyone come across a comparison between the 136 and 156?? I'm not sure which one best fits my needs.
Thanks.
You can't go wrong with either but the 156 has 52 elements of filtering verses the 136 39 elements; the designers says the 136 is all most would need especially at the asking price but imagine more refinement with more filtering. My PSM 136 with the additional Ground Master gives me 51 elements of filtering and a bigger saving over the more expensive 156...
Here's a testimony from Puritan user review section:
PSM156
"I recently upgraded my PSM136 to the new PSM156 and would like to share my experiences for anybody wondering whether to make the same upgrade or a new purchase.
I’ve been using some form of mains conditioning/filtering for over 15 years. Before I owned the PSM 136 I was using a PS Audio Premiere that worked well enough I thought in my system, but one day I saw a very brief piece in the hi-fi press stating that a UK company called Puritan Audio was launching a new mains filtration device. The price looked right so I decided to try it out at home. To cut to the chase my PS Audio Premiere was sold on eBay and I bought the PSM136 in 2016, as it surpassed the PS Audio unit in all aspects, but especially in terms of musical transparency and clarity.
Earlier this year I saw a review by Paul Rigby extolling the virtues of the very new PSM156 and decided to pester Mike at Puritan Audio to let me try one at home. Once he was happy that the performance of the new model was up to his high standards he sent me a unit and I plugged it in expecting a little improvement of what I had been experiencing with the PSM136. How wrong I was!
The first experience that made me sit further back in my listening chair was the marked increase in bass power from my system. Although I’m a classical music fan I have a weakness for 1970-75 Miles Davis’ electric period, and particularly the Sony Japan import versions of the live albums Aghartha and Dark Magus. These albums have some of the meanest electric bass, drums and percussion that I’ve heard on disc and through the PSM156 the bass blew me away. What a beast! I use a REL T9i subwoofer to supplement my Harbeth Monitor 30.1’s and I had to turn down the volume control on the REL two notches as the power was too much for my room. My LFD integrated amp is certainly no multi-watt behemoth but what it does do very well is to give a very accurate rendition of the tone and timbre of instruments. It’s also a very transparent amplifier so that I can hear the result of even the slightest change made in the signal chain.
After this initial favourable impression I began to notice other aspects that had improved noticeably. The size of the musical image became much bigger, wider, higher and deeper. It reached further back behind the speakers and further forward into the room in front of them. Within this larger, lifelike soundstage there was a greater separation between the instruments so that the architecture of the recording venue became much more palpable. Each instrument was clearly picked out spatially and became much fuller and three dimensional. Micro details of guitar fingering, the breathy rasps of Miles Davis’ trumpet playing and the slap of hands and fingers on percussion instruments were now much more vividly present than before, producing a more lifelike image of living breathing musicians on stage.
During the next few days I listened to a wide range of classical material and all of the recordings I played benefited in exactly the same way as the Miles Davis electric albums. Instruments were more clearly delineated spatially and their timbres more lifelike. Everything was much more realistically rendered, from triangles to double basses. There was no way I was going to return the PSM156 to Mike at Puritan Audio and it is now an invaluable component in my system. I would highly recommend that you try it in your system at home, and if you do, I’d be very surprised if you sent it back!
For me the PSM156 is a stone cold bargain for the price, as the effect it has had on my system is by no means subtle. What’s more it means we can support another British hi-fi manufacturer – my amp and speakers are both respected British brands. I know there is a lot of talk about how mains filtering devices can be current limiting, to power amps in particular. Far from doing this in my system the PSM156 has only unleashed more power and in doing so has increased my enjoyment of my music collection enormously."
Wig
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You can't go wrong with either but the 156 has 52 elements of filtering verses the 136 39 elements; the designers says the 136 is all most would need especially at the asking price but imagine more refinement with more filtering. My PSM 136 with the additional Ground Master gives me 51 elements of filtering and a bigger saving over the more expensive 156...
Here's a testimony from Puritan user review section:
This is very helpful. Thanks!
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This is very helpful. Thanks!
No problem and glad it was helpful!
Wig 👍
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I committed a cardinal sin but had no opportunity to place just one new item in the chain. I had a 156 and a Sachs Model 2 preamp show up at the same time with no other replacement units in house. Right out of the box this is the best sound I have ever had. Of course I cannot delineate which unit is giving me what exactly. I am on my way to 48 hours of run-in time for both used units just to reinstate the components to a burn-in state. Can't wait to roll some tubes. I have plenty of 6SN7's from the Dude preamp days to try in the Sachs. Amp is a VTV stereo unit with PR Sonic Imagery Labs 995FET Pro Opamp.
Cleanest presentation I have ever had. Puts to shame the Luxman, Pass, and Inakustik combo.
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Just inserted a Puritan 156 in the system. Wow! Everything is somehow more present; the relaxed parts of the music are more relaxed, the forceful parts more forceful. I had to adjust the volume control down a tad. My monoblocks also used to give a tiny thud through the speakers when powering on, and that went away too.
This is the real deal. Made more difference to the system than an Isotek Sigmas EVO.
I also picked up a couple of their power cords at the same time, which are supremely flexible, if you have tight corners.
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I committed a cardinal sin but had no opportunity to place just one new item in the chain. I had a 156 and a Sachs Model 2 preamp show up at the same time with no other replacement units in house. Right out of the box this is the best sound I have ever had. Of course I cannot delineate which unit is giving me what exactly. I am on my way to 48 hours of run-in time for both used units just to reinstate the components to a burn-in state. Can't wait to roll some tubes. I have plenty of 6SN7's from the Dude preamp days to try in the Sachs. Amp is a VTV stereo unit with PR Sonic Imagery Labs 995FET Pro Opamp.
Cleanest presentation I have ever had. Puts to shame the Luxman, Pass, and Inakustik combo.
@ BRM
It's both that are contributing to the best sound and they both will continue to improve over the next few weeks!
@ AndrewA
Yes, the Puritan is the "Real Deal" and the level of noise that has been removed is shocking compared to All of the other units I owned; No Way to Unhear this... :lol:
Wig :thumb:
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Puritan Ground Master (GM) update!
Guys,
I received my GM on Friday night and was anxious to hear the improvements but knew it was going to be at least another 4-5 hours before the kids were in bed. So, I connected the device to the cabling running to the supplemental grounding rods and connected the supplied cabling to the GM and then into the my PSM 136 Star chassis ground which completed the installation (1 minute).
Turned on the my soundbar to listen with the GM installed and uninstalled and the differences in clarity was even noticeable on my consumer soundbar. After getting the kids in bed, I powered up my system letting my tube components warm up for a bit before doing any casual listening but I was anxious to hear the improvements the GM was having in my system.
It literally took no time to discern the impact of the GM; my sound stage grew another 4-5 feet in width, perception of depth also increased, transparency, clarity and low-level detail was quite stunning but this is the hallmark of having a lower floor noise… Images were rock-solid/tightly focused and tracking multiple performers on the stage were easily discernable within their own three-dimensional space.
This GM is a bargain and does exactly as advertised, “Earth Line Interference Eliminator”. If you already have a 136 or 156, this device will elevate your gear to a level of unimaginable resolve. I understand the concepts of the Puritan but in my mind the PSM deals with all of the pollutants on your line within the unit itself and seems that adding the GM with a supplemental grounding rod, permanently drains ALL of the spurious noises emanating within the unit, your equipment and the main ground... :D
This is a no brainer and Enthusiastically Recommended!
Wig :thumb:
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Puritan Ground Master (GM) update!
Guys,
I received my GM on Friday night and was anxious to hear the improvements but knew it was going to be at least another 4-5 hours before the kids were in bed. So, I connected the device to the cabling running to the supplemental grounding rods and connected the supplied cabling to the GM and then into the my PSM 136 Star chassis ground which completed the installation (1 minute).
Turned on the my soundbar to listen with the GM installed and uninstalled and the differences in clarity was even noticeable on my consumer soundbar. After getting the kids in bed, I powered up my system letting my tube components warm up for a bit before doing any casual listening but I was anxious to hear the improvements the GM was having in my system.
It literally took no time to discern the impact of the GM; my sound stage grew another 4-5 feet in width, perception of depth also increased, transparency, clarity and low-level detail was quite stunning but this is the hallmark of having a lower floor noise… Images were rock-solid/tightly focused and tracking multiple performers on the stage were easily discernable within their own three-dimensional space.
This GM is a bargain and does exactly as advertised, “Earth Line Interference Eliminator”. If you already have a 136 or 156, this device will elevate your gear to a level of unimaginable resolve. I understand the concepts of the Puritan but in my mind the PSM deals with all of the pollutants on your line within the unit itself and seems that adding the GM with a supplemental grounding rod, permanently drains ALL of the spurious noises emanating within the unit, your equipment and the main ground... :D
This is a no brainer and Enthusiastically Recommended!
Wig :thumb:
Thanks for the writeup, need to get mine hooked up. Unfortunately, I have a rather roundabout way to go from where my rig is to where I can pound a copper rod outside.
What type of wire did you use and what length is yours to the rod?
I'm assuming there would be minimal current flow through it.
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@ TomS
I bought a 100 Feet roll of 12 Ga stranded copper that's capable of handling 600 volts and more than capable of handling grounding duties; I used about 50 feet of cabling to complete my installation.
Recommend saturating the ground for at least 30 minutes before pounding your rod into the ground, it will make the job much easier :)
Wig
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@ TomS
I bought a 100 Feet roll of 12 Ga stranded copper that's capable of handling 600 volts and more than capable of handling grounding duties; I used about 50 feet of cabling to complete my installation.
Recommend saturating the ground for at least 30 minutes before pounding your rod into the ground, it will make the job much easier :)
Wig
Did you do a full 8-10' ground rod? I presume you called utilities too; to have them all marked?
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Where are you plugging in your power amps?
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Where are you plugging in your power amps?
I have mine are plugged into the PSM156
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Are there current limitations on each outlet on the PM156?
I am wondering if I could just use one outlet on the PM156 and plug my UberBuss into it. That way, at minimum, I would get the advantage of my preferred AC receptacles.
Possible product idea for Puritan: a smaller form factor PM device with one inlet and one outlet that could be placed before another power conditioner of another manufacturer - to get advantages of dc blocking, surge suppression, and AC filtering. Not sure if there is a technical downside to this, though.
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might not be compatible depending on topology.
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Are there current limitations on each outlet on the PM156?
I am wondering if I could just use one outlet on the PM156 and plug my UberBuss into it. That way, at minimum, I would get the advantage of my preferred AC receptacles.
Possible product idea for Puritan: a smaller form factor PM device with one inlet and one outlet that could be placed before another power conditioner of another manufacturer - to get advantages of dc blocking, surge suppression, and AC filtering. Not sure if there is a technical downside to this, though.
Not sure the duplexes would be a factor any more after the improvement this makes. I would also guess your Uber is not going to be needed as well having owned one or two along the journey.
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Looking at pictures of the back of the PSM 156 unit, I see each outlet is clearly marked "Max 15a-3500VA".
Paul Rigby's review confirms each outlet can handle 15a.
Big Red - thanks for your input, interesting.
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Yep. Unlike many other devices, all receptacles are rated to handle power amps, etc. I have my two monoblocs plugged in, as well as everything else (preamp, cd player). For the amount of extra filtering, the 156 made sense for me. The internal pictures (Google images) tell the story.
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So you are driving a ground outside into the earth? Is it bonded to the neutral through the panel? Is it bonded to the other ground rods? If it isn't, I am pretty sure your homeowners policy is no longer valid... If it is, what is the purpose?
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@ sfox7076
The supplemental grounding rod IS NOT bonded or connected to your house panel grounding scheme in any way, its main purpose is to be used with the Ground Master Device that will take care of any faults if that were to happen to your audio system. You can review Puritan youtube video on this device.
Wig
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@wig and others,
As I understand the separate grounding rod is connected to one terminal of the GM, the other terminal is then connected the PSM ground lug itself. This ground lug is also connected to the PSM chassis ground which in turn is connected to the panel/house ground. So in a way the GM is indirectly connected to the ground and also providing an alternative ground path. Did I get this correctly ? Will this cause code violation ?
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Sounds more like a diode. A gozouta and no gozinta for noise to travel out and not for signal to go back through the system.
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Over the past 7 years I have owned at least 8 power conditioners and all of them made improvements in my system but NO where near the performance of Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136!
For the first time I’m hearing so much more information that has been buried by the barrage of ground noise; detail, ambiance, sound stage width/depth and note sustainment is remarkable by just adding this Puritan.
I have also bought their ground master device that is said to remove the noise from your audio system ground to the supplemental rod that has to be installed. This modification has been completed and I’m waiting on the device to arrive to discern any notable improvement but I’m quite happy with the results of this unit!
After listening to the youtube video, go to the 15:30 minute mark and see how much noise is removed even on dedicated lines...
Wig :thumb:
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/master-purifiers/psm136/
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/ground-master/
https://theaudiophileman.com/ground-master-puritan-review/
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/puritan/
https://www.11stereo.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VX4buciMLM
Interesting maybe worth trying
Asghar
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I don't know if electrical code is significantly different in Britain, but perhaps some of these questions about ground(s) should be posed to the manufacturer.
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Here is quoted information from Puritan's own Ground Master literature:
"Long before the problem of high frequency interference on the Earth Line became as serious as it is today, audiophiles in the know were utilising additional Ground Rods to provide an independent Earth to their HiFi installations.
Elegant as this solution may seem, this is a colossally dangerous practice for the vast majority of current installations*. This is because it risks the potentially massive current from any fault between your HiFi and your local substation finding the easiest path to Earth through your HiFi with expensive, and possibly tragic, results! This is why the practice of introducing directly connected supplementary or dedicated HiFi Ground Rods is specifically prohibited by current UK Wiring Regulations. (Except in very specific circumstances).
By utilising the Puritan Ground Master the hazards (and illegality) associated with the use of additional HiFi Ground Rods are totally avoided. And this is achieved without compromising the effective route to ground and hence the removal, of undesirable noise disturbance frequencies on the Earth Line.
With the Puritan Ground Master used in conjunction with an additional Ground Rod the potentially dangerous route to Earth of mains frequency currents is safely isolated whilst offending noise and disturbance frequencies are permitted a highly efficient, extremely low impedance route to ground ensuring their elimination.
* For the past 50 years houses have normally been connected using the Protective Multiple Earth (PME) system, whereby the Neutral Line is bonded to Earth at the substation and at other points along the way and with Neutral and Earth circuits separated at the point of entry to the building. This style of installation provides the greatest dangers if using additional ground rods without connecting though the Ground Master whilst other styles of household Earth connection will still benefit greatly with increased safety and performance by using the Ground Master"
I make no judgement one way or the other, however he does not explain specifically how the Ground Master mains current is "safely isolated" when using it with a non bonded rod(s). It would be hard to say without disclosing what's in the box, but smarter people here probably have a good guess what's going on. I do so miss the late Paul K in these moments.
Mike Powell also posted a new video on Puritan conditioners, referring to the GM here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFkzZYya6Wc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFkzZYya6Wc)
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Perhaps someone should reach out to their dealer and/or Puritan.
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Updates from the Manufacturer, Puritan Audio Labs:
"The whole idea of the GroundMaster is that it acknowledges the U.S. “Electrical Code” and our very similar UK “Wiring Regulations” regarding the inadvisability of connecting either dedicated or supplementary earth rods for your HiFi. This is why you break the wire and put it though the GroundMaster. With GroundMaster at 50 or 60Hz power supply frequency there is an open circuit to the ground rod and no current will pass. Move up into the unwanted noise frequencies in the KHz, MHz, GHz ranges and the GroundMaster closes to allows free unrestricted passage of these frequencies only.
Think of the GroundMaster as an extremely robust high pass filter, mains frequencies 50 and 60Hz are way down in Sub Woofer territory and are completely blocked. Move up into tweeter land and beyond and everything has free passage. The key design challenges of this “filter” is that it has to be incredibly robust and extremely wide band.
The actual audiophile trick here is the installation of the supplementary earth rod, GroundMaster makes it completely safe to use this trick and produces the same sonic result as a direct (dangerous) connection but with complete safety".
Hope this explains.
Very best wishes,
Mike Lester
Puritan Audio Laboratories
Puritan Ltd
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Thanks, good information! BTW, I sent an email to them a few weeks ago, heard nothing.
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@TomS and @wig, thanks for the info.
I am not very clear on these requirements from safety perspective and when one claims insurance, so just thinking out loud - Does it need/have any certification (ex UL certification) or it is sufficient to say that it acknowledge the U.S. “Electrical Code” ?
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@TomS and @wig, thanks for the info.
I am not very clear on these requirements from safety perspective and when one claims insurance, so just thinking out loud - Does it need/have any certification (ex UL certification) or it is sufficient to say that it acknowledge the U.S. “Electrical Code” ?
I'm no expert, but at a practical level I don't think you'd find a homeowner's policy that requires everything (non-fixed) you plug into your home's outlets must be approved by a NRTL such a UL, CSA, etc.. Grounding and bonding are a different matter, as it is part of the building's permanent (fixed) power infrastructure which is governed by local building codes (usually based on NEC, not UL which is an approval agency) and inspected as such. A building inspector will ask you to show them that the rods are all bonded together, and will inspect ground and neutral bonding in the main panel and service entrance. Explaining a "stray" un-bonded ground rod with a separate wire going into the building, that supposedly makes your hifi sound better, just might not be a very straight forward conversation.
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Thanks, good information! BTW, I sent an email to them a few weeks ago, heard nothing.
That makes two of us
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@ sfox7076
The supplemental grounding rod IS NOT bonded or connected to your house panel grounding scheme in any way, its main purpose is to be used with the Ground Master Device that will take care of any faults if that were to happen to your audio system. You can review Puritan youtube video on this device.
Wig
This is a vary dangerous idea!
Never ever add an independent ground rod system.
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This is a vary dangerous idea!
Never ever add an independent ground rod system.
I believe this is exactly what Ground Master is trying to solve....
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I'm no expert, but at a practical level I don't think you'd find a homeowner's policy that requires everything (non-fixed) you plug into your home's outlets must be approved by a NRTL such a UL, CSA, etc.. Grounding and bonding are a different matter, as it is part of the building's permanent (fixed) power infrastructure which is governed by local building codes (usually based on NEC, not UL which is an approval agency) and inspected as such. A building inspector will ask you to show them that the rods are all bonded together, and will inspect ground and neutral bonding in the main panel and service entrance. Explaining a "stray" un-bonded ground rod with a separate wire going into the building, that supposedly makes your hifi sound better, just might not be a very straight forward conversation.
nicely explained. so basically "use it at your own risk" :)
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Is the PSM136/156 UL approved?
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Is the PSM136/156 UL approved?
CE Marked
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CE Marked
Ah ok.
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a 'CE' mark is not a substitute for a 'UL' or other safety agency mark.
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a 'CE' mark is not a substitute for a 'UL' or other safety agency mark.
I'm aware
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a 'CE' mark is not a substitute for a 'UL' or other safety agency mark.
Never said it did. I worked with both UL and CE compliance for years, so understand what both do well enough. Please find another thread to go debate it ad nauseam if you wish.
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This leaflet explicitly recognizes the dangers but claims that the Ground Master avoids or overcomes them.
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Ground-Master-PDF.pdf
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Great info and had a few questions about the 156.
Ok to plug in bigger amp like a Krell KSA-300 and rest of my gear (pre,CD,streamer)
or best plug Krell KSA-300 into wall and rest into 156? (Tried PC’s in the past and did not work well with KSA-300)
any retailers offer in home trails? worried about using with my Krell
Thanks
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Great info and had a few questions about the 156.
Ok to plug in bigger amp like a Krell KSA-300 and rest of my gear (pre,CD,streamer)
or best plug Krell KSA-300 into wall and rest into 156? (Tried PC’s in the past and did not work well with KSA-300)
any retailers offer in home trails? worried about using with my Krell
Thanks
I ran my Coda Class A 18 Watt which has a 3000 VA transformer though my 136 with no issues.
Wig
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Great info and had a few questions about the 156.
Ok to plug in bigger amp like a Krell KSA-300 and rest of my gear (pre,CD,streamer)
or best plug Krell KSA-300 into wall and rest into 156? (Tried PC’s in the past and did not work well with KSA-300)
any retailers offer in home trails? worried about using with my Krell
Thanks
You might try Audio Archon or Precision AV in Chicago, both dealers.
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Brian Tucker
Pro Audio Ltd.
proaudio@comcast.net
I will try to finish my install today but will not fire it up right away. Things are torn apart in my room. Quite a mess.
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I ran my Coda Class A 18 Watt which has a 3000 VA transformer though my 136 with no issues.
Wig
Wig,
Thanks for info, but the Krell KSA-300S amp is big and draws current, my concern is losing dynamics. I’ve tried others in the past and that seemed to be their weakness of losing dynamics with the amp plugged in.
So the Puritan 156 is not a current limiting design and no worries about plugging the whole system in to the 156?
Thanks
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Wig,
Thanks for info, but the Krell KSA-300S amp is big and draws current, my concern is losing dynamics. I’ve tried others in the past and that seemed to be their weakness of losing dynamics with the amp plugged in.
So the Puritan 156 is not a current limiting design and no worries about plugging the whole system in to the 156?
Thanks
No problem for my system and I have Amp, Tube Dac,Tube Pre, TV, DVD, CD Transport and not a hint of noise, which is unbelievable...Never thought this was even possible!
Wig :thumb:
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Anybody compared the Puritan to other brands ? I tried to find recent user reviews but looks like all talks were 3-4 yrs ago and there are hardly any talks about it now. The Shunyata Denali and Audioquest Niagara has been consistently rated very high and was wondering if anyone has any feedback comparing against the Puritan ?
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I've had various models from Audioquest, PS Audio, Furman, Isotek, Blue Circle, and a couple of others in house, and the Puritan outstrips them all.
I would have thought the main competition would come from the Inakustik 3500 (not personally auditioned), but wig has heard both and prefers the Puritan.
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I've had various models from Audioquest, PS Audio, Furman, Isotek, Blue Circle, and a couple of others in house, and the Puritan outstrips them all.
I would have thought the main competition would come from the Inakustik 3500 (not personally auditioned), but wig has heard both and prefers the Puritan.
Thanks. Which Audioquest and PS Audio model ?
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Anybody compared the Puritan to other brands ? I tried to find recent user reviews but looks like all talks were 3-4 yrs ago and there are hardly any talks about it now. The Shunyata Denali and Audioquest Niagara has been consistently rated very high and was wondering if anyone has any feedback comparing against the Puritan ?
Well, I have a Niagara 1000, one of the latest in the long, long line of pc I've used. For me, it's basically a glorified power strip since I hear no audible improvements to my bad sonics due to bad electric power in the evening hours. Have not tried the Puritan, but since everybody here thinks it's great I may give it a try.
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Do these power conditioners wear out? I'm not talking from lightening or continuous spikes.
Lots of talk about correcting minor issues in the mains, but my mains vary by 7-9 volts sometimes. Would this do anything for that? I currently use an APC conditioner. No thoughts to improving sound but using it to protect my gear. It will maintain voltage to 120v but only to 127v, after that it cuts power - which does happen here and there.
Also, my my apple tv, fire tv, micro rendu antenna and all the switching power supplies, I plug all of that into a triplite strip and plug that into a different outlet (assuming these are all 'noisy' components). If had had a power conditioner like this, would I just plug everything I had into it?
You know what this needs? A power button.
thanks.
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Do these power conditioners wear out? I'm not talking from lightening or continuous spikes.
Lots of talk about correcting minor issues in the mains, but my mains vary by 7-9 volts sometimes. Would this do anything for that? I currently use an APC conditioner. No thoughts to improving sound but using it to protect my gear. It will maintain voltage to 120v but only to 127v, after that it cuts power - which does happen here and there.
Also, my my apple tv, fire tv, micro rendu antenna and all the switching power supplies, I plug all of that into a triplite strip and plug that into a different outlet (assuming these are all 'noisy' components). If had had a power conditioner like this, would I just plug everything I had into it?
You know what this needs? A power button.
thanks.
The components used inside operate mostly at ambient temps and will last many years. There are a few electrolytic caps in the DC blocker circuit which may eventually need to be replaced, just like in all electronics using them.
No, it will not adjust the output voltage in any way up or down when input variations occur. Torus Power and PS Audio make products that can address that issue.
You can plug everything into it as the 6 outlets are individually filtered and provide some degree of isolation from each other as well.
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Anybody compared the Puritan to other brands ? I tried to find recent user reviews but looks like all talks were 3-4 yrs ago and there are hardly any talks about it now. The Shunyata Denali and Audioquest Niagara has been consistently rated very high and was wondering if anyone has any feedback comparing against the Puritan ?
I've owned them all and just sold an Inakustik 3500P to buy the 156. Hands down the best so far. ANd I loved the 3500P. I'm looking for clean sound. Don't care about surge, etc. I have good power at this house. Will have the Ground Master up and running soon also.
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Anybody compared the Puritan to other brands ? I tried to find recent user reviews but looks like all talks were 3-4 yrs ago and there are hardly any talks about it now. The Shunyata Denali and Audioquest Niagara has been consistently rated very high and was wondering if anyone has any feedback comparing against the Puritan ?
Here’s a list of conditioners I can remember owning:
Torus CS
Shunyata
SR Can’t remember model
Audience TS6
Running Springs Jaco
Core Power 1200 with Furutech NCF Outlets, rewired with Duelund 600V Poly, home runs to each outlet eliminating the stock piggy-back config and Audience XO Cap on each outlet and all modified by me.
Inakustik 3500P
The Puritan blows away all of the conditioners I mentioned above with ease.
Wig :D
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The components used inside operate mostly at ambient temps and will last many years. There are a few electrolytic caps in the DC blocker circuit which may eventually need to be replaced, just like in all electronics using them.
Yea, I realize all electronics eventually wear out, I'm hoping a high end power conditioner can last 20-30 years. My APC is 15 years old and have no idea if it still (fully) works. In that time I've had 4 speaker systems, 6 amps, etc but have no desire to even think about a power conditioner again once I get one. That's why I also like the power off button - parasitic loads and keeping all flow of electricity out when not being used to help (hope) it lasts longer (no heat production at all).
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Any opinions on their power cables?
Thx
Tony
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A 20 amp cord came with mine. It's VERY flexible and Mike at Audio Archon said that he tried other power cords with it and there was no improvement, when I inquired. Uh, oh...I may have opened a can of worms with that statement! :wink: The cords can bought separately.
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A 20 amp cord came with mine. It's VERY flexible and Mike at Audio Archon said that he tried other power cords with it and there was no improvement, when I inquired. Uh, oh...I may have opened a can of worms with that statement! :wink: The cords can bought separately.
Thanks. I'm so sick of stiff cables :icon_lol:
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Interesting conditioner. This is a solution to using multiple dedicate lines and conditioners for each line. I have had success using four dedicated lines conditioning each separately. One ea for mono blocks. One for TT, phono Pre and preamp and one for all digital. This solution although more expensive to do worked better than any conditioner on one line feeding entire system. The secret sauce is making sure all lines are same length especially ground. Would like to see a conditioner for mono blocks with one outlet.
charles
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Charles:
What kind of turntable was it?
Shawn
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Thanks. I'm so sick of stiff cables :icon_lol:
Just be aware that if you want to try others, the IEC inlet on the unit is 20A for better grip(?), though the unit itself is rated at 15A so their cord has a 15A plug on it.
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I got a couple of Puritan power cords along with the '156. The copper color can be a struggle to get in the US, but makes a nice change from black.
They are supremely flexible, which is a big plus, because I'm working with limited space.
Using them to plug my two monoblocs into the '156. The '156 is the piece of the puzzle that makes the big difference, but the PCs certainly don't hurt and are very reasonably priced compared to many others out there.
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Does the Puritan 156 need break in time or will it be good out of the box? in the world of audio, everything needs break in. Lol
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Does the Puritan 156 need break in time or will it be good out of the box? in the world of audio, everything needs break in. Lol
You will hear the benefits immediately but will take up to 2 weeks of burn-in to get the wire and outlets conditioned.
Wig
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I got a couple of Puritan power cords along with the '156. The copper color can be a struggle to get in the US, but makes a nice change from black.
They are supremely flexible, which is a big plus, because I'm working with limited space.
Using them to plug my two monoblocs into the '156. The '156 is the piece of the puzzle that makes the big difference, but the PCs certainly don't hurt and are very reasonably priced compared to many others out there.
AndrewA,
Happen to know the US Retail price for the upgraded power cords (need a 2M) they have the “Classic plus” and “Ultimate “ (copper color?)
what improvements did the upgraded “Copper” cord have over the factory Black cord
Thanks
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How many power cords yours came with ? I read some got 15A and 20A while other states only one 2M 20A.
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156 model. One power cord. It has the 20 amp connector on the component end, because the Puritan uses a 20 amp socket/receptacle for its own power cord. Regular 15 amp plug on the wall end, so it works fine with regular domestic wiring.
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My used 156 unit came with 2 cables. Don't really see them as better than my DCCA's though. When I get time I will experiment some.
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One cord with my PSM156, same as others, 20A connection to the IEC and 15A connection to the wall.
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Thanks for all the replies. Does it come with a generic cord or it’s one of the cords they sell as well ? Anyone played with an aftermarket cord ?
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Thanks for all the replies. Does it come with a generic cord or it’s one of the cords they sell as well ? Anyone played with an aftermarket cord ?
It comes with the Puritan cord standard, which they also sell separately.
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Hmm if it’s doing its job why the hell do you need n upgraded cord.
My vac sig mkIIa doesn’t need a upgraded cord or my two Torus PIUs.
Both have been flawless for years 2012 for the Vac and 2006 for both Torus units.
And the Torus instantly smacked down Shunyatas as I had both units to instantly compare.
Seems like BS to me you have to upgrade to a whatever PC to reap more benefits and that’s from the same manufacturer.
Not for me ,I’ll stick with the Torus and that would be what about 14 yrs.
Sorry guys not into the PC thing especially if the conditioner is supposedly that good RED FLAG for me.
Amazing enough the only things I’ve swapped over the yrs were amps,preamps,cables.........Torus(s)have stayed.
I’ll bow out now................."...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44244)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44245)
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Hmm if it’s doing its job why the hell do you need n upgraded cord.
My vac sig mkIIa doesn’t need a upgraded cord or my two Torus PIUs.
Both have been flawless for years 2012 for the Vac and 2006 for both Torus units.
And the Torus instantly smacked down Shunyatas as I had both units to instantly compare.
Seems like BS to me you have to upgrade to a whatever PC to reap more benefits and that’s from the same manufacturer.
Not for me ,I’ll stick with the Torus and that would be what about 14 yrs.
Sorry guys not into the PC thing especially if the conditioner is supposedly that good RED FLAG for me.
Amazing enough the only things I’ve swapped over the yrs were amps,preamps,cables.........Torus(s)have stayed.
I’ll bow out now................."...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44244)
I have own many power conditioners to include Torus and a higher quality PC has always sounded better than the stock cord even though Puritan stock cables are much better that the standard cheap PC that manufacturers provide. My Amps, Pre, CD players/transport and Dac have all benefitted with better quality PCs.
Wig :D
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I have own many power conditioners to include Torus and a higher quality PC has always sounded better than the stock cord even though Puritan stock cables are much better that the standard cheap PC that manufacturers provide.
I agree. Power cord makes a difference, sometimes to a large extent but its good to see that Puritan is providing a good quality power cable to go with their power conditioner and not the cheap black ones that almost all manufacturers supply.
My Amps, Pre, CD players/transport and Dac have all benefitted with better quality PCs.
Wig :D
What about the Puritan ? Does it benefit as well ? :)
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I agree. Power cord makes a difference, sometimes to a large extent but its good to see that Puritan is providing a good quality power cable to go with their power conditioner and not the cheap black ones that almost all manufacturers supply.
What about the Puritan ? Does it benefit as well ? :)
Yes, the Puritan will benefit from a good PC; I'm using a DIY Helix PC with Furutech 20A IEC plug and Neotech 12Ga OCC Solid Copper and these beat my previous PC costing up to $4K (Inakustik and Ch Acoustic X20).
See link on how it built and number of music lovers using them:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218971)
Wig :thumb:
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Hey Wig, what’s your source for the Nanotech wire?
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If aftermarket cords do make a difference on it, I gotta ask - how feasible to swap that 20A inlet on the unit to a Furutech NCF 15A inlet? Would be way cheaper (<$50 if I recall) than re-terminating all power cords of interest to 20A male connectors, especially when talking about Furutech NCF connectors. Why not just make it compatible with the majority of cables out there? I'm not sold on the argument that the extra grip provided by the 20A connection is worth the tradeoffs regarding lack of compatibility with the majority of aftermarket cables out there.
So, would swapping the inlet on the unit muck up its design in any way?
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I agree. Power cord makes a difference, sometimes to a large extent but its good to see that Puritan is providing a good quality power cable to go with their power conditioner and not the cheap black ones that almost all manufacturers supply.
What about the Puritan ? Does it benefit as well ? :)
I can only speak for the model 1512 and the cord that was included, but Mike at Audio Archon found that "he could not hear any difference" with other cords. And he carries a number of them.
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My PSM 156 arrives on Monday, courtesy of Mike at Archon.
I also purchased a Pangea 20a to 15a IEC adapter from Audio Advisor. If the adapter (copper with gold plating) doesn't degrade the sound too much, I'll be able to make a comparision between my Triode Wire Labs 7+ power cord and the stock Puritan Audio Labs cord.
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Hey Wig, what’s your source for the Nanotech wire?
Here you go.
http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/wire-chassis-c-296_175
Wig
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218983)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218985)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218986)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218987)
If aftermarket cords do make a difference on it, I gotta ask - how feasible to swap that 20A inlet on the unit to a Furutech NCF 15A inlet? Would be way cheaper (<$50 if I recall) than re-terminating all power cords of interest to 20A male connectors, especially when talking about Furutech NCF connectors. Why not just make it compatible with the majority of cables out there? I'm not sold on the argument that the extra grip provided by the 20A connection is worth the tradeoffs regarding lack of compatibility with the majority of aftermarket cables out there.
So, would swapping the inlet on the unit muck up its design in any way?
NCF are very good connectors and is what I used when I rewired and got rid of the piggy-back with direct home runs to each outlets on my previous balanced conditioner. The contact area for the 20A inlet is much more substantial than the 15A inlet and would stay with that connector.
Wig
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What kind of improvements, if any, have you noticed while using the 136/156 during non peak hours of electrical interference? That would be after midnight or so, in my case.. Sound is noticeably better much later at night and early morning.. Thanks.
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Yes, the Puritan will benefit from a good PC; I'm using a DIY Helix PC with Furutech 20A IEC plug and Nanotech 12Ga OCC Solid Copper and these beat my previous PC costing up to $4K (Verastarr Statement III, Inakustik and Ch Acoustic X20).
See link on how it built and number of music lovers using them:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218971)
Wig :thumb:
Cool. You possibly meant Neotech instead of Nanotech (well, there is a Nanotech as well but they are hard to source) ? Did you use solid core or stranded ? I am very much familiar with it as I use the 12Ga solid core and combination of Mundrof silver/gold in my DIY linear power supply wiring :)
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It comes with the Puritan cord standard, which they also sell separately.
Thanks. Good to know. I am glad they included a quality cable.
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Cool. You possibly meant Neotech instead of Nanotech (well, there is a Nanotech as well but they are hard to source) ? Did you use solid core or stranded ? I am very much familiar with it as I use the 12Ga solid core and combination of Mundrof silver/gold in my DIY linear power supply wiring :)
:D Should be Neotech and all OCC Solid Core :thumb:
Wig
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What kind of improvements, if any, have you noticed while using the 136/156 during non peak hours of electrical interference? That would be after midnight or so, in my case.. Sound is noticeably better much later at night and early morning.. Thanks.
The 156 is better and your system will sound good anytime of day with these units; my system is dead quiet/zero noise with ear placed on tweeter! I have the 136 and love it but if I had to do it over, would spend the extra for the 156.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFkzZYya6Wc
Wig
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I can only speak for the model 1512 and the cord that was included, but Mike at Audio Archon found that "he could not hear any difference" with other cords. And he carries a number of them.
I think the 1512 is double of 156 in a bigger chassis. I still think the audiophiles within us will want to experiment, just as wig did but if it doesn’t improve it’s even better :D
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Mine arrives next week :D
However, I am very intrigued with the Ground Master and would like to set it up. @wig and others who are using ground master, it would be very helpful if you could post the part lists and where to source from ?
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Here you go, supplies needed:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Galvan-0-625-in-x-8-ft-Copper-Grounding-Rods/3446270
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sigma-Electric-ProConnex-5-8-in-Grounding-Clamp-Conduit-Fitting/1099921
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-50-ft-12-AWG-Stranded-Green-Copper-THHN-Wire-By-the-Roll/1000774456
Wig
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Here you go, supplies needed:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Galvan-0-625-in-x-8-ft-Copper-Grounding-Rods/3446270
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sigma-Electric-ProConnex-5-8-in-Grounding-Clamp-Conduit-Fitting/1099921
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-50-ft-12-AWG-Stranded-Green-Copper-THHN-Wire-By-the-Roll/1000774456
Wig
Thank you :thumb:
Is it ok for this ground wire to be laid outside (in sun/rain) or do we need a conduit ? Would solid core be a better fit for this ? Also is there anything to prep the ground before pounding the 8’ rod :-)
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I think the 1512 is double of 156 in a bigger chassis. I still think the audiophiles within us will want to experiment, just as wig did but if it doesn’t improve it’s even better :D
So true! The more revealing your system is, the more noticeable the differences are heard with PC changes :thumb:
Wig
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Thank you :thumb:
Is it ok for this ground wire to be laid outside (in sun/rain) or do we need a conduit ? Would solid core be a better fit for this ? Also is there anything to prep the ground before pounding the 8’ rod :-)
Try to keep it nice and tidy. I'm in the desert and my cabling is under gravel and not noticeable. I stayed with stranded as it's more forgiving during installation... Also, after determining a safe rod location, saturate the ground for an hour; your forearm will thank you! :lol:
Wig :D
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Try to keep it nice and tidy. I'm in the desert and my cabling is under gravel and not noticeable. I stayed with stranded as it's more forgiving during installation... Also, after determining a safe rod location, saturate the ground for an hour; your forearm will thank you! :lol:
Wig :D
Cool. saturate the ground with what ?
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Cool. saturate the ground with what ?
Water.
Wig
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Water.
Wig
ok, I will probably do one of those rainy days :thumb:
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I also live in the desert, and have read in the past about grounding issues where soil does not have adequate moisture surrounding the rod to convey current. I wonder if that should be a concern with these special rid installations in arid regions.
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I also live in the desert, and have read in the past about grounding issues where soil does not have adequate moisture surrounding the rod to convey current. I wonder if that should be a concern with these special rid installations in arid regions.
We may only see maybe 4-5 20 minutes showers in a 6 month period and 2 feet into the ground is quite moist; the rod will be going down 5-8 feet where even more moisture is available. I think those in even dry areas would be fine but could add more moisture every 3 months when you clean your audio plugs/connectors as regular maintenance. :thumb:
Wig
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Yeah, I live on the side of a hill, with minimal soil before bedrock. Portions of my foundation are actually cut into bedrock, and especially on the side of the house where my electrical panel is located. Certainly nowhere near 5-8 ft of soil. I've lost three trees this year in our deep drought conditions (tied for lowest monsoon rainfall ever on record, and only one small meaningful rain since the monsoon season). I actually don't know details of my existing ground rod's installation. A special/unusual set of circumstances, for sure, but a concern for me at least.
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The Puritan Audio Labs U.K. retail price list shows that they sell a grounding "Performance Enhancing Back-fill Compound 10 Litres (expands up to 30 litres with water)" for 60 GBP.
There are similar products available in the U.S. to increase the conductivity of the soil around the grounding rod.
Here is one popular one -- nVent ERICO GEM Ground Enhancement Material:
https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R2387
https://blog.nvent.com/erico-the-4-critical-qualities-of-effective-ground-enhancement-materials-gem/
https://blog.nvent.com/lower-your-grounding-system-resistance-with-ground-enhancement-material-gem/
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I think the 1512 is double of 156 in a bigger chassis. I still think the audiophiles within us will want to experiment, just as wig did but if it doesn’t improve it’s even better :D
I simply needed the extra outlets that the 1512 offered.
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As regards Puritan PCs, as far as I am aware they only offer one model. This comes in three colors, black, white, and copper, and in various lengths. Again, AFAIK, the different colors are purely cosmetic (copper makes a nice change). You can read the technical details in a white paper on their website about how they've designed them and what they're supposed to do. I like them because they're pretty inexpensive and supremely flexible; these are truly ideal if you're working in tight spaces. The PC that comes with the 156 and I presume other models, has an identical cord (wire), but with the appropriate 20amp connector to go into the back of the unit. It's black (no color options ASAIK).
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The U.K. retail price list shows three levels of power cable: 1) Classic Dissipative Technology Mains Cables, 2) Classic+, and 3) Ultimate.
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/buying/retail-price-list/
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Hmmm. I see that. But I can't find any reference to the two superior grades anywhere else on their website. And I wasn't offered any choice in this regard when I bought a couple. Strange...
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Hmmm. I see that. But I can't find any reference to the two superior grades anywhere else on their website. And I wasn't offered any choice in this regard when I bought a couple. Strange...
Product marketing got ahead of product development? Wouldn't be the first time that happened in a company!
My PSM 156 arrived a few days early. It was well packed -- I like the triple boxing. Setting it up now.
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Product marketing got ahead of product development? Wouldn't be the first time that happened in a company!
My PSM 156 arrived a few days early. It was well packed -- I like the triple boxing. Setting it up now.
Cappy
I’m very interested to hear your impressions of the PSM156. I currently have the SR Powercell 8 UEF SE and think it’s good but how much better can it get? About the same $
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Yes, the Puritan will benefit from a good PC; I'm using a DIY Helix PC with Furutech 20A IEC plug and Neotech 12Ga OCC Solid Copper and these beat my previous PC costing up to $4K (Inakustik and Ch Acoustic X20).
See link on how it built and number of music lovers using them:
://forum.Audion.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218971)
Wig :thumb:
I too had the Inakustic 3500 conditioner along with a few Inakustic power cords and just like previously owned conditioners including an expensive Ac regeneration with a loom of expensive wires ,speaking for myself the gain VS cost ratio really wasn’t there.
Wig I’m very interested in the helix DYI power cords and that is something I will try ..Currently I use the Puritan 136 with grounding box to very good effect , I have power cords that shamefully sell for more then the cost of the Puritan and grounding box combined,.
I was leery of the dealers claims of the Puritan brand though finally took him up on his in home trial of one of the store demos .
Comparison between the Inakustic and Puritan 136 I couldn’t tell any difference though plugging in my digital front end directly in the wall receptacles definitely both conditioners did their job .
I bought the Puritan 136 along with the grounding box , quickly sold the Inakustic along with the power cords and put that money directly to a new server.
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Where do I dump my new 3500P since this 156 smokes it? I'm not up for watering rods, getting ridiculous.
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Where do I dump my new 3500P since this 156 smokes it? I'm not up for watering rods, getting ridiculous.
Right in my lap sir! :lol:
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Well ,while you guys are figuring out what to upgrade next,I will say since 06 my two Torus PIUs have beeen Flawless,SUPERB PROTECTION(another post with 4 subwoofers)non current limiting ect.
Used the SSSShhh snakes 8) 8) :lol:,end of rant and it’s no audio BS,
If you want BS....look long and hard and Hydras and whatever else that dribbles down the line.
There are Picts of the innards of these CASH GRABBERS,
Don’t take my word for it search for your self,don’t be Complacent....audio companies LUV U FOR IT.
Happy New Year for Savings for some New Gear In The New Year.
Don’t buy into the hype without AUDITION(home)is the tried and TRUE METHOD.
Enjoy.
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Well ,while you guys are figuring out what to upgrade next,I will say since 06 my two Torus PIUs have beeen Flawless,SUPERB PROTECTION(another post with 4 subwoofers)non current limiting ect.
Used the SSSShhh snakes 8) 8) :lol:,end of rant and it’s no audio BS,
If you want BS....look long and hard and Hydras and whatever else that dribbles down the line.
There are Picts of the innards of these CASH GRABBERS,
Don’t take my word for it search for your self,don’t be Complacent....audio companies LUV U FOR IT.
Happy New Year for Savings for some New Gear In The New Year.
Don’t buy into the hype without AUDITION(home)is the tried and TRUE METHOD.
Enjoy.
,,Hooray! for you !
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The 156 is better and your system will sound good anytime of day with these units; my system is dead quiet/zero noise with ear placed on tweeter! I have the 136 and love it but if I had to do it over, would spend the extra for the 156.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFkzZYya6Wc
Wig
What I was asking about is, are the 136 or 156 capable of producing an audible improvement, even during hours of much lower electrical interference (from neighbors,businesses and schools)?
Many people who listen very late, such as 2 a.m.-5 a.m., hear a noticeable improvement in the sound of their audio systems.
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Thanks for the elegant, eloquent, cohesive and pertinent post as usual. Yes, we all believe the gentleman who needed to purchase 12 plus power cords to realize that there was no improvement. How does the saying go...fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 12 times, shame on ...Shunyata. Yep that’s it. :duh:
As for the other posters, thanks for sharing your experiences of the Puritans. I am definitely interested in giving one a try.
Here’s the post that I’m referring to:
I’m amazed that only(audiophiles)hear a difference,special breed I guess.
I have been a musician for over 50 yrs(whatever).
I bought in the pc theory years ago Shunyata anacondas and pythons all the latest Helixes Mojo.
Over TWELVE PCs :duh:,and I still had stock PCs.
Did I hear a difference Naaaada nothing.
Using stock cords,the song remains the same,trouble is like the Shunyata which have 2”foam pipe insulation on them OOO is in love and hey what about the fringing regular M/F ends,must be magic there also before it goes into the NORMAL WIRING IN A preamp or amp.
What really made aMajor upgrade was installing Torus PUI x2 where before it was all shunyata(waste of money) take it or leave it as even a NON audiophile can hear the difference.
My gear 28s ,7s five in all Vac ect
Alrighty then bring it on..................and on And on................Its Showtime ..........
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What I was asking about is, are the 136 or 156 capable of producing an audible improvement, even during hours of much lower electrical interference (from neighbors,businesses and schools)?
Many people who listen very late, such as 2 a.m.-5 a.m., hear a noticeable improvement in the sound of their audio systems.
Yes, you will hear an audible improvement even during peak hours of the day.
Wig :D
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I too had the Inakustic 3500 conditioner along with a few Inakustic power cords and just like previously owned conditioners including an expensive Ac regeneration with a loom of expensive wires ,speaking for myself the gain VS cost ratio really wasn’t there.
Wig I’m very interested in the helix DYI power cords and that is something I will try ..Currently I use the Puritan 136 with grounding box to very good effect , I have power cords that shamefully sell for more then the cost of the Puritan and grounding box combined,.
I was leery of the dealers claims of the Puritan brand though finally took him up on his in home trial of one of the store demos .
Comparison between the Inakustic and Puritan 136 I couldn’t tell any difference though plugging in my digital front end directly in the wall receptacles definitely both conditioners did their job .
I bought the Puritan 136 along with the grounding box , quickly sold the Inakustic along with the power cords and put that money directly to a new server.
Definitely build yourself one of these Helix PC and hear the difference they make after 250+ hours of burn-in; just stunning...
Wig :thumb:
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Cappy
I’m very interested to hear your impressions of the PSM156.
Will do. I have been burning in the device since Saturday, running it with 900-1200 watts continuously.
I currently have the SR Powercell 8 UEF SE and think it’s good but how much better can it get? About the same $
A few thoughts. First, in my opinion, with power conditioning and power cords, perfect can be the enemy of the pretty darn good.
Second, Big Red Machine said in a concurrent power conditioning thread:
"You need a device that solves your problem. Voltage fluctuations, brownouts, poor grounding, high frequency noise, motor noise, fluorescent light noise, etc."
So if you have DC on your line, for example, the PSM 156 could definitely help. If you don't, maybe your SR conditioner is as good or better. Another option using that example might be to try a Puritan Labs PS106-DC or PS108-DC PURIST, strip conditioners with DC blocking, in front of your Powercell.
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Puritan 156 received yesterday. Listening last night, I see this is one unit that actually works during the bad hours here, anytime after dark. I've owned at least a dozen of the usual suspects in power conditioners and regenerators, and none actually did any good as far as I could tell, nada. This one does. I used to feel like running screaming from the room after dark, since the sonics went right into the toilet, noisy, grainy, the life sucked out of it. In short, I couldn't listen at all. During the day everything was fine. Now this afternoon. I find improvements in the sound I didn't expect, since I didn't think there was a problem during daylight hours. Hard to describe, maybe clearer and smoother. This is one amazing unit. Nice power cord came with it too.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219327)
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Puritan 156 received yesterday. Listening last night, I see this is one unit that actually works during the bad hours here, anytime after dark. I've owned at least a dozen of the usual suspects in power conditioners and regenerators, and none actually did any good as far as I could tell, nada. This one does. I used to feel like running screaming from the room after dark, since the sonics went right into the toilet, noisy, grainy, the life sucked out of it. In short, I couldn't listen at all. During the day everything was fine. Now this afternoon. I find improvements in the sound I didn't expect, since I didn't think there was a problem during daylight hours. Hard to describe, maybe clearer and smoother. This is one amazing unit. Nice power cord came with it too.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219327)
Randy,
Good to hear the change in sound quality is obvious and immediate! This is a product that once it enters your system, it's there to stay... :D
Wig :thumb:
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Randy,
Good to hear the change in sound quality is obvious and immediate! This is a product that once it enters your system, it's there to stay... :D
Wig :thumb:
Thanks for the tip on this posted back in Dec.
Randy
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This is one amazing unit. Nice power cord came with it too.
Randy, I am liking my PSM 156 a lot too.
I compared the included "Classic" power cord with a Triode Wire Labs 7+, via a Pangea 20a to 15a IEC adapter. While I enjoyed the slightly richer bass from the higher gauge 7+, overall I much prefer the Puritan cord. The 7+ caused a glare in the upper midrange/treble, while the "Classic" cord is smooth, and at the same time, clearer in all frequency ranges.
It is possible the IEC adapter is mucking things up. Or, more likely, the "Classic" cord was voiced well to be compatible with the conditioner.
On the clean side of the PSM 156, the Triode Wire Labs power cords do very well. I've got four of them in the system at the moment. They add a bit of warmth I prefer, and are smooth yet resolving.
I'm using an Oyaide R0 duplex outlet at the wall that the "Classic" cord plugs into. I think this is a good match with the conditioner and power cord with it's unplated copper metallurgy. If anyone wants to try an R0, I recommend my friend Mao in Osaka who can be reached at okada7115mao@gmail.com. Good price and quick shipping.
I'll write up another post later today with more thoughts on the PSM 156, and how it fixes my power problems.
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BTW, I gather that the higher grade power cords are available from the US distributor, Pro Audio in Barrington, IL.
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The most noticeable power problem I have is DC on the line. Ironically, this DC causes my UberBuss power conditioner inductors to always noticeably buzz. Sometimes the buzz gets quite loud, so I am guessing the DC component is somewhat variable.
Enter the PSM 156. On my Fluke multimeter (admittedly a blunt tool for this measuring purpose) I can see the DC lower by an order of magnitude on the clean side of the Puritan conditioner. Plugging the UberBuss into the PSM 156 stops the buzzing inductor noise.
Another power problem is weather related. My house has a hybrid HVAC system with 1) a whole house heat pump and 2) a natural gas furnace. Normally the system switches over to gas when it gets below 36 degrees. When the heat pump is running I get a raspy treble thing going on with the audio system. The heat pump has an ECM motor. These motors can apparently throw a huge amount of harmonic distortion on the line. The fan blower for the HVAC system also has an ECM motor, but that one I haven't really noticed to be an issue, at least when just running by itself with the furnace. It's smaller and a lot further from the breaker panel.
I've always manually switched the heating system over to the gas furnace when I am listening to music. But with the Puritan in the system, I can't detect a difference so far. So it looks like I will be able to avoid messing with the HVAC system for serious listening sessions.
When I got the Puritan conditioner, as soon as I plugged it in, the first thing I noticed was more nuanced bass. Then after some burn-in I noticed better image depth and higher resolution in midrange and treble. Also better slam. And instruments existing in their own space better.
The PSM 156 is called "Studio Master" for a reason. It has a neutral sound. I made some cabling changes from my previous setup to shift the tonal balance down a notch. Srajan describes the tonality well in his well written 6moons review.
One thing I'm digging with the new conditioner is percussion. "Duke Ellington Meets Coleman Hawkins" with Sam Woodyard on drums sounds excellent. On the track "Wanderlust" I can really get a realistic aural and visual picture of Woodyard drumming away with the echo reflecting off the studio wall.
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I really want to try this power conditioner, but I need 8 outlets, so I may have to opt for the much more expensive PSM1512. Sure, I can plug my amps or subs directly into the wall, but that defeats the purpose (I gotta have surge protection where I live). Another option would be to attach a power strip to the 156 (yuck) or run two components separately through another power strip. Any thoughts?
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I really want to try this power conditioner, but I need 8 outlets, so I may have to opt for the much more expensive PSM1512. Sure, I can plug my amps or subs directly into the wall, but that defeats the purpose (I gotta have surge protection where I live). Another option would be to attach a power strip to the 156 (yuck) or run two components separately through another power strip. Any thoughts?
What are the components?
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What are the components?
Three subs, two amps, pre, DAC, and transport.
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I'd try stringing the subs together into one outlet or see how it sounds without connecting them at all to the Puritan. Kinda crazy to spend so much more for 2 more outlets. My opinion, of course.
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If it were me, I'd try to find an inexpensive but good sounding power strip, plug the subs into it, and then plug the strip into the six outlet Puritan.
In my experience sub-bass is not nearly as sensitive to cabling/outlet issues. But subs do respond well to better grounding. Plugging the strip into the Puritan gives the advantage of lashing all the grounds in the system together with a good star ground, plus getting the ground cleansing of the Puritan conditioner to the subs. Plus getting the Puritan isolation filtering with the other outlets. Plus getting the full Puritan filtering on the subs.
Maybe there is a decent cheap Chinese power strip available with good heavy (low gauge) copper wiring and a good IEC?
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And if you’re handy and want a higher end power strip solution, you could get one with good internal wiring, but swap out the duplexes for some Furutech NCF outlets.
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Puritan also make these.
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/strip-purifiers/all/
Perhaps assemble some combo.
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Randy, I am liking my PSM 156 a lot too.
I compared the included "Classic" power cord with a Triode Wire Labs 7+, via a Pangea 20a to 15a IEC adapter. While I enjoyed the slightly richer bass from the higher gauge 7+, overall I much prefer the Puritan cord. The 7+ caused a glare in the upper midrange/treble, while the "Classic" cord is smooth, and at the same time, clearer in all frequency ranges.
I have a Triode Wire "Digial American" from my CD player to the Puritan.
My wall outlet is off to one side and ten feet from my equipment, so I use a power strip to plug in the Puritan since the Puritan cable is far too short to reach the outlet. Very good cable to the power strip, power strip being from PS Audio of some years back, probably their first version of such a thing. Wonder if there would be a difference having the Puritan plugged directly into the wall outlet, but suspect expensive cable would be needed. Or instead, one of Puritans conditioner strips. One reviewer goes on about the one with DC something or other that he uses with the 156. Says it helps. No idea here.
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Puritan also make these.
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/strip-purifiers/all/
Perhaps assemble some combo.
Ha, just as I was posting my message a couple minutes after yours suggesting the same thing.
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Hey that strip purifier looks pretty cool. I still have my highly tricked out CPT Equi=Core balanced power transformer as my conditioner - the same one Wig talked about having before. I've been eyeing this stuff with interest in trying, but now am curious about the prospect of directly wiring one of these strips to the secondaries of the Equi=Core transformer. That would add filtering between outlets that the Equi=Core doesn't currently have along with surge protection which might be nice too. I wonder how close such a combo might get to the full Puritan 136 or 156 performance.
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I wonder what the price of that power strip is.
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I wonder what the price of that power strip is.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219474)
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Wow, ok nevermind
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Wow, ok nevermind
Yeah stuff is pricey. I’m debating the PSM156 and trying to see if a vendor will do a demo or a return policy at least. Presently I have the Synergistic Research Powercell 8 UEF SE which I like but read so many things about the 156 I’m intrigued.
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Yeah, with those prices, I'll wait on a 156 or 1512 to start showing up on the used market. If I get a 156, I'll use my existing power conditioner as the power strip for my subs.
Are those outlet covers removable? Seems like they would be annoying.
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Don’t get me wrong, the overall prices seem reasonable for me. I was only referring to my thought bubble about getting one of their power strips to daisy chain with my existing BPT. At $900, it seems like it would be more cost effective to just buy the big boy 156 and sell or repurpose the BPT to a second system.
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I think a regular power strip would be fine as long as the max current draw isn't too much.
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There's a good deal more inside the 106/106DC than just six receptacles and some quality wiring.
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/puritan2/
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I just got the 156 and have owned my AC3500-P for almost a year now. Needed another conditioner for my second system so decided to give the Puritan a try since everyone is raving about. First impressions is they are similar and I didn't notice it blowing away the Inakustik by any means. In fact I prefer the Inakustik with my tube amp as the 156 seems to make a transformer buzz. However with Solid State it is dead quiet. Curious to the folks that have owned both what the Puritan does better than the Inakustik? Maybe I need to burn the 156 more...Also looking to add a CAD GC3 ground box to the Puritan in the next few weeks to find out if there is an improvement.
-Alex
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The Inakustik is very good. The Puritan delivered more quiet in the background and more detail in the sound delivered. The Inakustik is #2 to me and these 2 way above all others. But if you have a different power concern, neither of these may be for you.
I cannot say I have less background noise with the added Puritan Groundmaster. I'll have to unplug it and give it a listen.
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Inakustik inside:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219542)
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Blows away, crushes, destroys, upgraded, are way overused and exaggerated. If the photo of the 3500P is indicative of lesser performance due to the innards, that proves no point either.
Both PC's are designed differently to address the same type of problems in a given system.
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Inakustik inside:
What's underneath the board? A transformer?
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A few more angles:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219543)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219544)
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I just got the 156 and have owned my AC3500-P for almost a year now. Needed another conditioner for my second system so decided to give the Puritan a try since everyone is raving about. First impressions is they are similar and I didn't notice it blowing away the Inakustik by any means. In fact I prefer the Inakustik with my tube amp as the 156 seems to make a transformer buzz. However with Solid State it is dead quiet. Curious to the folks that have owned both what the Puritan does better than the Inakustik? Maybe I need to burn the 156 more...Also looking to add a CAD GC3 ground box to the Puritan in the next few weeks to find out if there is an improvement.
-Alex
Yes the Inakustik AC 3500-P was quite good in my system as well but the Puritan without any burn-in exceeded the performance of the Inakustik; when you can hear ambiance spatial retrieval, deeper/wider sound stage, tighter image focus and a more engaging listening experience. That's a tangible emotion that's hard to get away from when you hear it and this was without the ground master which elevated things even further :D
I evaluated both conditioners with a Coda Class A SS 18 Watts Amp and a Luxman KT88 Tube Amp and no hum or buzzing; I have found that manufacturers over torque things resulting in unwanted sounds... More refinement after 2 weeks of burn-in.
Wig :thumb:
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A series of good photos here.
https://www.hifi-voice.com/testy-a-recenze/prislusenstvi-a-doplnky/2327-inakustik-ac-3500p
Scroll down. I believe the only thing under the large black mounting board is a couple of wires.
But what might seem like an excessively large enclosure for what's inside doesn't mean that the unit doesn't work as described. There have been many very positive reviews of it, as well as their cables.
However, my PSM 156 is staying put.
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Has anyone been able to compare a PSM 156 with a PI Audio Uberbuss?
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Wig, did you try any isolation platforms for the Inakustik. When I placed a Relaxa 530 under it there was a huge increase in performance. I had to take it out and insert it twice just to make sure my ears weren’t playing tricks on me.
-Alex
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Wig, did you try any isolation platforms for the Inakustik. When I placed a Relaxa 530 under it there was a huge increase in performance. I had to take it out and insert it twice just to make sure my ears weren’t playing tricks on me.
-Alex
Yes; 2" Maple platform and Symposium Acoustics Rollerblock HDSE with superballs.
My entire audio rack is suspended on Rollerblocks and each shelf is 2" of maple and each component is sitting on Isoacoustics Gaia isolation devices; very noticeable improvements and allows me to hear discernable differences in many components or cables I routinely evaluate. :D
Wig :thumb:
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Wow lots of good things from all around. I say that because I work at an audio store and we carry these actually. I had one guy walk in and tell me that it was like someone had stepped out from in front of his speakers. My coworker told the guy he's about the fifth person who has called this thing a dramatic change in a good way.
So, after seeing a lot of mostly good experiences here and at the store. (And full disclosure, I didn't read them all as this a pre-work internet-scour, but it seemed to be **mostly** good.) I decided I not only want surge protection but have decided to just get a power conditioner while I'm working at this audio store and still get a discount. I have the narrowed my choice between this and a Chang Lightspeed (probably the 509). Is the puritan really worth the extra $$$ over the Chang? I get a discount but still 800-1100 dollars is about double what I wanted to spend. I can spend it, I'm just hesitant. I can always try out our demo stuff before I buy it, but I like to hear what other people think. Also the headphones I'm currently waiting on take 12 weeks and its only been 11. So I have a couple weeks before demoing starts. Also this is my first post on here, so I hope this is all within the rules and such.
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Stereo Times 2020 Most Wanted
http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/most-wanted-2020-page-5
Wig :thumb:
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Stereo Times 2020 Most Wanted
http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/most-wanted-2020-page-5
Wig :thumb:
Except for ADD-Powr and Puritan, the rest of the recommendations are just plain snobs.
Unbelievable that a $2844 Quantum Science Audio Ultra High-End Fuse can be the most wanted components of 2020. I suspect either they got Covid when writing this or were smoking something else :icon_lol:
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Except for ADD-Powr and Puritan, the rest of the recommendations are just plain snobs.
Unbelievable that a $2844 Quantum Science Audio Ultra High-End Fuse can be the most wanted components of 2020. I suspect either they got Covid when writing this or were smoking something else :icon_lol:
I was looking into trying one of those fuses until I discovered the price was not a misprint... :lol:
Wig
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I was looking into trying one of those fuses until I discovered the price was not a misprint... :lol:
Wig
And then of course there are the $28k interconnects :roll:
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Wow lots of good things from all around. I say that because I work at an audio store and we carry these actually. I had one guy walk in and tell me that it was like someone had stepped out from in front of his speakers. My coworker told the guy he's about the fifth person who has called this thing a dramatic change in a good way.
So, after seeing a lot of mostly good experiences here and at the store. (And full disclosure, I didn't read them all as this a pre-work internet-scour, but it seemed to be **mostly** good.) I decided I not only want surge protection but have decided to just get a power conditioner while I'm working at this audio store and still get a discount. I have the narrowed my choice between this and a Chang Lightspeed (probably the 509). Is the puritan really worth the extra $$$ over the Chang? I get a discount but still 800-1100 dollars is about double what I wanted to spend. I can spend it, I'm just hesitant. I can always try out our demo stuff before I buy it, but I like to hear what other people think. Also the headphones I'm currently waiting on take 12 weeks and its only been 11. So I have a couple weeks before demoing starts. Also this is my first post on here, so I hope this is all within the rules and such.
Hi. My first post as well!
I was looking at the Puritan 1512 for my Home Theater system but the Audioquest 5000 looks very good as well. I do not know enough to make the proper decision to replace my Richard Gray 1200. The Gray is 20 year old technology and is more focused on surge suppression and power reserve than noise reduction, which it does not even address or mention on its website write up.
I've read good things about both units but there must be differences between the 2 as the 5000 is billed as a power conditioner and the Puritan as a power purifier. Could they be "the same" but different in how they get there? Interesting that both have a 20A IEC power outlet yet use 15A duplexes instead of 20A duplexes.
Has anyone compared the 2 in a system or have opinions one over the other?
Thank you.
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Hi. My first post as well!
I was looking at the Puritan 1512 for my Home Theater system but the Audioquest 5000 looks very good as well. I do not know enough to make the proper decision to replace my Richard Gray 1200. The Gray is 20 year old technology and is more focused on surge suppression and power reserve than noise reduction, which it does not even address or mention on its website write up.
I've read good things about both units but there must be differences between the 2 as the 5000 is billed as a power conditioner and the Puritan as a power purifier. Could they be "the same" but different in how they get there? Interesting that both have a 20A IEC power outlet yet use 15A duplexes instead of 20A duplexes.
Has anyone compared the 2 in a system or have opinions one over the other?
Thank you.
My dealer sells and had stock of both brands, though I called originally to pursue the AQ 5000. He steered me back towards the Puritan 156 at less than 1/2 the price, for what that's worth. I have not had a 5000 in my own system to compare, but am very happy with the PSM156. The 20a inlet is for increased physical connection security, not electrical, though I don't think it makes much difference. A Neutrik PowerConn would be far better, but it goes against the grain for purist audiophile types.
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Thank you.
One big difference that might have gone into your dealers decision is that the 5000 has 12 outlets( 4 high voltage and 8 low voltage) whereas the 156 has 6 outlets and perhaps that was not so much one being better than the other technology and ability wise but more outlet appropriate for your needs?
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Thank you.
One big difference that might have gone into your dealers decision is that the 5000 has 12 outlets( 4 high voltage and 8 low voltage) whereas the 156 has 6 outlets and perhaps that was not so much one being better than the other technology and ability wise but more outlet appropriate for your needs?
Actually no, he said the Puritan sounded better to him and several other customers who switched.
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Actually no, he said the Puritan sounded better to him and several other customers who switched.
No kidding. Well, that is a solid endorsement...... But "switched" from which power devices. AQ's 5000?
I have been corresponding with Garth Powell of Audioquest.....A very friendly, informative guy. He of course thinks the Niagara's are the bees knees but I asked him about the Puritan's devices as I am just learning about them here. He replied-
"I can give chapter and verse on the basic multiple common-mode non-linear filters with DC blocks Puritan’s built, what’s good about some of that, what’s not so good as well…, and I can do that for anything on the market (including everything I’ve ever designed). There are going to be two constants in this exercise:
1)Every companies marketing department will have creative ways in which to stand apart. Regardless of how unique (or not), their technology is.
2)You will not know what you prefer in total without trying it first (ideally in your system).
I can give you chapters of why I believe Niagara is superior to anything on the market (and handily…), but that’s my opinion. It’s based on experience, careful listening, and real-world verifiable measurements, but I can’t determine what people will most enjoy (nobody can).
Rather than going through these questions, could I first ask you a favor? If you haven’t already, please download and read (and hear the audio samples) “Power Demystified.” It’s my white paper on AC power and it’s effect on audio-video systems. Go to our AudioQuest website-Niagara products-Niagara 7000- scroll to bottom of page, it’s one of the links. If you can get that knowledge first, we are on a more solid footing."
I haven't looked at his white paper yet. The audio files might be interesting.
Thanks.
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sometimes the best way to evaluate any Audio component is NOT to ask manufacturers of their opinion on other brands :P
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sometimes the best way to evaluate any Audio component is NOT to ask manufacturers of their opinion on other brands :P
No doubt.
I am looking to get evaluations that I can rely on as truth. This forum is certainly one. Shunyata has their forum "fanboy's" as does AQ. Although less than Shunyata and their Everest. Crickee, those guys are like a cult! And don't you dare question the Everest!
But since I don't have the luxury of an audition due to my equipment rack situation with all of my home theater components, I need to pick brains and decipher and make a final decision and live with it. :thumb:
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I am looking to get evaluations that I can rely on as truth. This forum is certainly one. Shunyata has their forum "fanboy's" as does AQ. Although less than Shunyata and their Everest. Crickee, those guys are like a cult! And don't you dare question the Everest!
Hello, I know of the Shunyata forum that you speak of, and I post there infrequently. I agree that they are a cult, but I still ended up buying a Denali 6000/S v2 and Everest 8000. I’m lucky to know a dealer friend for over 20 years to make it happen. The Everest not only does an incredible job of cleaning up the power, but most astonishing is how it lowers the noise floor. The details stand out and have presence like never before in my system. All I know is that it works well in my system. Perhaps you can try one by finding one in the used market. I’d search hifishark for a used Everest. ;)
I apologize to all for moving off topic.
Ken
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Hello, I know of the Shunyata forum that you speak of, and I post there infrequently. I agree that they are a cult, but I still ended up buying a Denali 6000/S v2 and Everest 8000. I’m lucky to know a dealer friend for over 20 years to make it happen. The Everest not only does an incredible job of cleaning up the power, but most astonishing is how it lowers the noise floor. The details stand out and have presence like never before in my system. All I know is that it works well in my system. Perhaps you can try one by finding one in the used market. I’d search hifishark for a used Everest. ;)
I apologize to all for moving off topic.
Ken
Thank you for your response. I think it's ok to discuss different power devices here in relation to the Puritan's. We are all trying to learn...I've been curious about the Everest but it is very expensive. And then the Sigma or Omega power cable! But I am happy to hear that it works so well for you. I don't think any used Everest's are for sale yet.
In researching the Puritan 1512, I just found out about PI Audio Groups UberBuss power conditioner. It seems to be very similar to the 1512's abilities but about half the price and has no surge suppression(or metal box) and can be customized. Interestingly, Caelin Gabriel of Shunyata strongly feels that it is most effective and the "absolute best method" of surge suppression to put it at the breaker box(with a ground rod) and not the equipment rack as it adds inductance(Garth Powell of Audioquest strongly disagrees as he thinks RF noise is introduced). Fascinating the difference in opinion. I was considering a Siemens FS140 house surge suppressor anyhow so.......
I find this power conditioner discussion so interesting. Thank you.
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Does anyone connect high power tube amps (like 845/805) to the Puritan ?
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No kidding. Well, that is a solid endorsement...... But "switched" from which power devices. AQ's 5000?
I have been corresponding with Garth Powell of Audioquest.....A very friendly, informative guy. He of course thinks the Niagara's are the bees knees but I asked him about the Puritan's devices as I am just learning about them here. He replied-
"I can give chapter and verse on the basic multiple common-mode non-linear filters with DC blocks Puritan’s built, what’s good about some of that, what’s not so good as well…, and I can do that for anything on the market (including everything I’ve ever designed). There are going to be two constants in this exercise:
1)Every companies marketing department will have creative ways in which to stand apart. Regardless of how unique (or not), their technology is.
2)You will not know what you prefer in total without trying it first (ideally in your system).
I can give you chapters of why I believe Niagara is superior to anything on the market (and handily…), but that’s my opinion. It’s based on experience, careful listening, and real-world verifiable measurements, but I can’t determine what people will most enjoy (nobody can).
Rather than going through these questions, could I first ask you a favor? If you haven’t already, please download and read (and hear the audio samples) “Power Demystified.” It’s my white paper on AC power and it’s effect on audio-video systems. Go to our AudioQuest website-Niagara products-Niagara 7000- scroll to bottom of page, it’s one of the links. If you can get that knowledge first, we are on a more solid footing."
I haven't looked at his white paper yet. The audio files might be interesting.
Thanks.
I had a Niagara 1000, and it did nothing for my system except provide a power strip for plugging in my units. No positive effect sonically as far as I could tell.
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Identical experience with the 1000. Its awkward shape led to the redesign of the 1200.
Puritan much superior.
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Has anyone come across a comparison between the 136 and 156?? I'm not sure which one best fits my needs.
Thanks.
The early psm 136 had an 8A fuse in each output and that is the type whose tests can be found on the internet. After it was noticed in a few tests that big amps in particular lost a little bit of bas dynamics, the 136 has been updated. All 6 outputs were then equipped WITHOUT teh 8A fuses and can now handle max 15A , just like the psm 156.
Both , the 136 and the 156 gave the same result when my dealer took a measurement with an Line emi noise meter. I also did contact Mike Lester from Puritan to ask him about the audible differences between both psm's. He did answer me and wrote to me that audible there is no difference if You do not use many devices together. The extra filtering from the 156 insures an even better separation between the 6 sockets. However , the 136 already has a very good separation. In my case, most off the time I only use my Hegel H590 all in one and sometimes also the Sony cdp xa50es. I did a measurement at home with an Isotek mains noise analyser from1000€ witch I did borrow from my dealer. I had 740 on my line before the psm 136 and at my psm 136 it was 000!!!
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Does anyone connect high power tube amps (like 845/805) to the Puritan ?
Yes I do. My Hegel H590 is connected and it can deliver 2x 300watt /8 ohm (600 watt /4 ohm) .
My dynaudio are 4 ohm speakers.
Dynamics are fantastic.
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Both , the 136 and the 156 gave the same result when my dealer took a measurement with an Line emi noise meter. I also did contact Mike Lester from Puritan to ask him about the audible differences between both psm's. He did answer me and wrote to me that audible there is no difference if You do not use many devices together. The extra filtering from the 156 insures an even better separation between the 6 sockets. However , the 136 already has a very good separation. In my case, most off the time I only use my Hegel H590 all in one and sometimes also the Sony cdp xa50es. I did a measurement at home with an Isotek mains noise analyser from1000€ witch I did borrow from my dealer. I had 740 on my line before the psm 136 and at my psm 136 it was 000!!!
If the 136 gave you a 0 reading from a noise analyzer, then how much better can the 156 or any other power conditioner be???
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I did make some video's from my mueserment, so if someone likes to see that, send me an email or pm.
I also have talked to a guy who did compare puritan with niagara 5000.
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This is what a guy wrote to me about his experience and comparison.
Hi Truder, it was hard work today. The PSM 156 is really 2 classes better than the Niagara 5000. And then the Gigawatt PC-3, very strange, but apparently it contains a not very good DC blocker. The PSM gets my dac really quiet, but with the PC-3 the transformer keeps buzzing on and off. The sound and depth image of the PC3 is really great and it is very close to the PSm, but if you listen to them directly one after the other, you will notice that the PC3 tightens the bass a bit more and allows voices to come out better. The PSM is slightly more restless in direct comparison. In terms of sound quality, the PC3 would be my preference, but not if the direct current is not properly clean. My dealer, is now talking to Gigawatt to see if there is anything that can be done about it, I will hear that next week. In terms of price-quality ratio, puritan is well ahead, really great what they know to do for this money, fine power cables too. I wonder what will happen next week, it could be that I will end up with the PSM as the best all-rounder. Good weekend,
addition:
He bought the psm 156 anyway becaurse of the sound was almost the same and dc blocking was better from the psm 156.
Prices here:
Niagara 5000 5000€ plus price power cable.
Gigawatt pc3 evo+ with cable 5565€
Puritan psm 156 1550€ wirth cable.
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Does anyone connect high power tube amps (like 845/805) to the Puritan ?
Yes I do. My Hegel H590 is connected and it can deliver 2x 300watt /8 ohm (600 watt /4 ohm) .
My dynaudio are 4 ohm speakers.
Dynamics are fantastic.
well, I was specifically talking about tube amps.
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So no one uses tube amps with their Puritan ?
I am quiet happy with the performance of the PSM156. So far I had tube DAC and preamp and other solid state components (amps, servers, etc) all connected to it without issues. I hear all the audible benefits that others have described. I am not going into the details but suffices to say that the improvements has been quiet substantial in my system.
However, recently I got a Line Magnetic integrated amp and when I connect to the Puritan, I hear a nasty buzz out of the Puritan. The buzz is quiet loud and can be heard from couple of feet away. There is also transformer buzz out of the LM as well. There is also a big hum/buzz out of the speaker. Apparently it looks like a ground loop issue but I can't figure out what would cause it as everything connects to the Puritan. Lifting the ground out of the DAC seems to solve the hum/buzz from the speaker but the Puritan still buzzes like crazy when the LM is connected. The only way to make it work is to connect the LM straight to the wall duplex where the Puritan is also connected.
I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts/insight into it ?
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Has anyone been able to compare the Puritan products to the iFi Powerstation? The iFi is one third the cost of the psm136. My power isn't too bad so the iFi seems like it may be a better value. According to an Alphalab Trifield EMI monitor the power coming out of my PS Audio Power Plant Premier is noisier than the input: 20 mV pp in to 50 out.
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So no one uses tube amps with their Puritan ?
I am quiet happy with the performance of the PSM156. So far I had tube DAC and preamp and other solid state components (amps, servers, etc) all connected to it without issues. I hear all the audible benefits that others have described. I am not going into the details but suffices to say that the improvements has been quiet substantial in my system.
However, recently I got a Line Magnetic integrated amp and when I connect to the Puritan, I hear a nasty buzz out of the Puritan. The buzz is quiet loud and can be heard from couple of feet away. There is also transformer buzz out of the LM as well. There is also a big hum/buzz out of the speaker. Apparently it looks like a ground loop issue but I can't figure out what would cause it as everything connects to the Puritan. Lifting the ground out of the DAC seems to solve the hum/buzz from the speaker but the Puritan still buzzes like crazy when the LM is connected. The only way to make it work is to connect the LM straight to the wall duplex where the Puritan is also connected.
I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts/insight into it ?
Yes I also had the same problem connecting it to my LM 805ia. The buzzing was very loud to the point that it bothered me too much. Ultimately got rid of the Puritan and kept my Inakustik AC-3500P.
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So I played with this a bit and looks like the buzz is getting into the LM via ground - apparently it could be some ground contamination. The left two circular devices (not sure if they are the inductors or transformer or something else) is the source of the buzz and it get through the LM where the transformer starts buzzing and then to the speaker. I have not tried the Ground Master with the Puritan, but it’s possible that it might help in this case.
@rareace, apart from buzzing, is the Inakustik AC-3500P an improvement over the Puritan in terms of sound quality ? folks here seems to think otherwise.
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So I played with this a bit and looks like the buzz is getting into the LM via ground - apparently it could be some ground contamination. The left two circular devices (not sure if they are the inductors or transformer or something else) is the source of the buzz and it get through the LM where the transformer starts buzzing and then to the speaker. I have not tried the Ground Master with the Puritan, but it’s possible that it might help in this case.
@rareace, apart from buzzing, is the Inakustik AC-3500P an improvement over the Puritan in terms of sound quality ? folks here seems to think otherwise.
I didn't notice much of a difference but also didn't spend enough time a/b'ing against each other.
-Alex
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Here’s a list of conditioners I can remember owning:
Torus CS
Shunyata
SR Can’t remember model
Audience TS6
Running Springs Jaco
Core Power 1200 with Furutech NCF Outlets, rewired with Duelund 600V Poly, home runs to each outlet eliminating the stock piggy-back config and Audience XO Cap on each outlet and all modified by me.
Inakustik 3500P
The Puritan blows away all of the conditioners I mentioned above with ease.
Wig :D
Going back a bit in the thread, I was about to pull the trigger on a Core Power Deep Core and Equi=Core 600 and then I found this thread. I can get both a 136 and the Core Power “set” for the same price but it looks like you had the Core Power and prefer the Puritan.
My guess is the filtering is similar but the Core Power uses a balanced transformer.
I’m powering a smaller headphone system and I do not have a dedicated circuit. My thought is the transformer would help with isolation better. Or I could crazy and go with a Torus AVR that has voltage regulation (at 2-3x the price of the 136).
Any thoughts on these two option is appreciated.
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My thought is the transformer would help with isolation better.
Avoid transformers in your power conditioners. They can potentially rob you of dynamics and introduce noise that you're attempting to eliminate.
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Avoid transformers in your power conditioners. They can potentially rob you of dynamics and introduce noise that you're attempting to eliminate.
So you recommend going with more filtering, like the Puritan?
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I don't think Wig had the Deep Core - only the Equi=Core if I recall correctly. So that comparison might not be completely informative to your question.
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So you recommend going with more filtering, like the Puritan?
Someday soon I'm gonna grab a Puritan.
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Yes, I had the Deep Core as well after a year of waiting but Underwood took care of us. I did not discern any differences with the DC and my highly modified EC, EC transformer still buzzed regardless of settings.
The Puritan is a different animal and just makes everything sounds better but do understand that if any of your components that have any internal multi-stage, small value filtering could cause some type of resonance with the Puritan but the difference easily noticeable. :D
Wig :thumb:
I don't think Wig had the Deep Core - only the Equi=Core if I recall correctly. So that comparison might not be completely informative to your question.
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@wig, do you know what is your wattage consumed when everything is powered on from Puritan ? I hear buzz from Puritan whenever a high power component is connected to it. Turn the component off and the buzz stop. So far two components created a buzz and both are tube gear. The higher the power the bigger the buzz. It looks like the Puritan doesn’t play well with some tube gear. I have heard similar buzz issues with Audioquest Niagara 5000.
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Thanks all. I pulled the trigger on a 156. Should be here next week.
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Thanks all. I pulled the trigger on a 156. Should be here next week.
Where did you purchase it?
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Thanks all. I pulled the trigger on a 156. Should be here next week.
Good choice! I do use the 136 and its very good in my rig .
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Where did you purchase it?
I was going to purchase a 136 from Audio Archon but then a 156 posted on Audiogon and I snagged it.
On a related note, I had a good email exchange with Mike from Puritan. Nice guy.
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I just plugged my entire system into a Kill A Watt Meter and just idle with no music playing with my KT88 Amp, Tube Pre, Tube Dac, sound bar, TV and satellite receiver and it read 400 Watts into my PSM 156.
Wig :D
@wig, do you know what is your wattage consumed when everything is powered on from Puritan ? I hear buzz from Puritan whenever a high power component is connected to it. Turn the component off and the buzz stop. So far two components created a buzz and both are tube gear. The higher the power the bigger the buzz. It looks like the Puritan doesn’t play well with some tube gear. I have heard similar buzz issues with Audioquest Niagara 5000.
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I have been following the thread, but if this question had been answered, then please excuse the repetition.
Have anyone used / compared the PSM 156 with the P.I. Audio UberBuss? I seem to recall on the Audiogon Forum that someone mentioned that he has moved from the P.I. Audio UberBuss to the PSM 156. I would like a bit more information regarding the change.
Thanks!
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Has anyone tried the Puritan Ultimate power cord with the PSM156?
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Bernardo,
I moved from the Classic cord provided with the PSM 156 to the Ultimate power cord. I like it a lot. It is definitely a nice improvement in my system.
One caveat is that if your system is tuned for the stock PSM 136/156 cord, you may need to rejigger things a bit for preferred tone, since the Ultimate is stronger in the bass and lower midrange.
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Any updates from owners that were wanting a couple more outlets with a 156?
I’m trying to figure a good and just as clean path for an extra duplex (or two) for an AppleTV, an iFi spdif purifier and maybe another 5v ps. This is just for casual day time app steaming...but these items run outside the Puritan and its simply not as good at all.
I have an old PI MajikBUSS w/ TWL 7+ cord and I tried it daisy-chained through the 156 and it wasn’t as good either. Might just be that the Puritan and it’s power cord are more neutral and open, so anything other than that neutrality, even with the 156 upstream, just doesn’t sound as good...
I do like the idea of putting NCF outlets in a standard but high quality power strip but then stuck with whatever rubber coated cord is attached to it.
So far running all the ancillaries mentioned into the Wells Audio Looking Glass conditioner I still have seems to be best but keeping it around for just these lil things seems like overkill...
Anyone work together a just-as-clean-as-through-the-156 outlet addition??
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Is anyone aware of a US dealer that will demo these products prior to purchasing? Thanks.
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Guys,
If you want to remove more noise from your components, I recommend attaching a scrap piece of wire from a chassis screw on
your components and run that wire to the star ground on your PSM136/156; I did each component separately to discern any differences
and it was quite obvious on each component.
Amazing results that will cost you Nothing! :thumb:
Wig :D
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Is anyone aware of a US dealer that will demo these products prior to purchasing? Thanks.
What state do you happen to be in?
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Does the Puritan 136 come with USA voltages (120) or only EU voltage (220)? If there is a 120 volt version, is it just as effective as the 220 volt version?
Thanks,
FastFingers
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mine is US 120 v. It is a UK based company I believe so European voltages are available.
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Is anyone aware of a US dealer that will demo these products prior to purchasing? Thanks.
You can reach out to Albert at Precision Audio Video pavchicago.com - there are bunch of other dealers you can contact as well :shake:
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Worth reading this ASR Review (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/puritan-audio-psm156-review-ac-filter.26136/) :thumb:
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Worth reading this ASR Review (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/puritan-audio-psm156-review-ac-filter.26136/) :thumb:
Garbage. That guy doesn't understand his own measurements.
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Verdant Audio is another US stockist now. He often allows home trials.
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Garbage. That guy doesn't understand his own measurements.
Care to explain and educate me - I would love to know more :notworthy:
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Anyone know the best way to contact this company direct with questions? I’ve sent several inquiries and got no response in well over a week
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Care to explain and educate me - I would love to know more :notworthy:
The guy performs measurements and concludes that the power conditioner doesn't live up to the claim of improving audio fidelity, but he doesn't offer any comments of actually listening to it. That's akin to acquiring speakers and measuring them, and then concluding -- without listening to them -- that they don't sound as good as the manufacturer said they would.
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Sorry you did not answer my question at all and sidestepped it completely :duh: You make a point about not listening to it. That is not what you posted.
Garbage. That guy doesn't understand his own measurements.
So what part of measurements do you dispute or reviewer missed out? Care to explain?
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Sorry you did not answer my question at all and sidestepped it completely :duh: You make a point about not listening to it. That is not what you posted.So what part of measurements do you dispute or reviewer missed out? Care to explain?
I'm not sure I can make it any clearer for you. I don't dispute the technicality of his measurements. However, his measurements don't support his conclusion. I said he doesn't understand his own measurements because he made a classic error in reasoning called a "logical leap." Logical leaps are 100% unscientific and invalid.
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I'm not sure I can make it any clearer for you. I don't dispute the technicality of his measurements. However, his measurements don't support his conclusion. I said he doesn't understand his own measurements because he made a classic error in reasoning called a "logical leap." Logical leaps are 100% unscientific and invalid.
Ok- you seem to confirm measurements and how it was taken are valid. Can you point to particular measurement chart and state why conclusion was not correct from only those measurements? I am responding since I thought you could share more knowledge about some measurement which was either not correct or one could interpret measurements some other way- that was your original comment which caught my eye- and I am seeking to learn more new info.
If you do not have more info on measurements- I suggest your original comment" does not understand his own measurements" is wrongly worded - you have not pointed to a chart and address any discrepancy but instead you confirm they are valid.
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Ok- you seem to confirm measurements and how it was taken are valid. Can you point to particular measurement chart and state why conclusion was not correct from only those measurements? I am responding since I thought you could share more knowledge about some measurement which was either not correct or one could interpret measurements some other way- that was your original comment which caught my eye- and I am seeking to learn more new info.
If you do not have more info on measurements- I suggest your original comment" does not understand his own measurements" is wrongly worded - you have not pointed to a chart and address any discrepancy but instead you confirm they are valid.
This reminds me of a wonderful song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_e-RQZVwxg
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Power conditioning is an interesting subject and warrants attempts at measurements but also within the proper context. What are you measuring and why? what’s your frame of reference? A lot of it floats around on ASR is akin to Jimmy Fallon‘s IT guy in it’s overall tone. It would be far more interesting to hear from manufacturers and people who actually do it for a living rather than a semi-retired Microsoft engineer whose glory days was in the 90s and who has never designed audio equipment himself. And since when was a Topping preamp considered state of the art?
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Either ASR isn't taking the right measurements to indicate what's going on, or he's misinterpreting the measurements that he's taken. Those are the only two possible conclusions, because many pairs of ears have heard a clear and enduring improvement in the sonic presentation.
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This reminds me of a wonderful song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_e-RQZVwxg
You state " he does not understand his measurements" and you have not explained in detail what measurements were not 'understood' or misinterpreted. :roll: :slap:
Either ASR isn't taking the right measurements to indicate what's going on,
Exactly- maybe there are other measurements which have not been considered; or there are other conditions not noted which may impact use of PSM.
..or he's misinterpreting the measurements that he's taken.
Ok- Early B mentioned same earlier- and he has failed to point to it instead dealing with bluster when I called him out on specifics :-) The measurements taken so far do not point to a big difference (or very little difference). Maybe you or someone can point to it from the measurements taken already. That was what I had asked and have got no response other than measurement is valid and youtube song link :lol:
Those are the only two possible conclusions, because many pairs of ears have heard a clear and enduring improvement in the sonic presentation.
There is also a 3rd possibility- pairs of ears got fooled too :D. 'Placebo effect' is a powerful influence.
There is subjectivity involved- Similar to my reaction to use of PS Audio P15 power conditioner- different circumstances/different results. I know it made a difference, but in my changed setup -not anymore.
I am curious about PSM too- and hope to try in my system. When someone states xyz is BS- I always try to seek information to support that claim and that has not happened here.
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Based on the positive reports posted in this thread earlier this year I purchased a 156 model. Then I posted that I thought it had a very positive effect on the sonics of my system. As time went on, however, I realized that it really wasn't making much if any difference in the sonics. I took it out of my system, didn't notice any change without it, and eventually sold it. Kishore may be on to something when he suggests there may be a placebo effect based on wishful thinking using this unit and most other power conditioners. I've had this happen before, actually, with other power conditioners and Lord knows, I've tried at least a dozen of them. Initial encouragement soon followed by disillusionment and that includes three different models over the years of the PS Audio regenerators plus another regenerator (two models) from Pure Power in Canada. Another thing. It's easy to misinterpret a "change" in sonics as "better" when it really isn't, and sometimes it takes a while to realize that.
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I'm allergic to placebos and sugar pills. Mine is staying for my present electrical situation. :thumb:
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Based on the positive reports posted in this thread earlier this year I purchased a 156 model. Then I posted that I thought it had a very positive effect on the sonics of my system. As time went on, however, I realized that it really wasn't making much if any difference in the sonics. I took it out of my system, didn't notice any change without it, and eventually sold it. Kishore may be on to something when he suggests there may be a placebo effect based on wishful thinking using this unit and most other power conditioners. I've had this happen before, actually, with other power conditioners and Lord knows, I've tried at least a dozen of them. Initial encouragement soon followed by disillusionment and that includes three different models over the years of the PS Audio regenerators plus another regenerator (two models) from Pure Power in Canada. Another thing. It's easy to misinterpret a "change" in sonics as "better" when it really isn't, and sometimes it takes a while to realize that.
This "placebo effect" can occur with any audio component, cable swap, or tweak.
Power conditioners are like condoms -- people talk more about how they feel rather than how well they protect. The primary purpose for purchasing a power conditioner isn't sonics, it's protection. Sonically, you want a power conditioner to do as little or no harm as possible. If don't hear a sonic difference from introducing a new power conditioner, that's a good thing. If you think it sounds better, that's a good thing, too.
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Placebo effect similarly affecting dozens of listeners OR one guy not getting it right?
I wonder which is more probable...
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Expectation bias can go equally for folks expecting to hear nice new equipment improve their sound and for those who believe only the best measuring equipment can make a difference. But it sounds to me like Randy made it past whatever initial expectation bias he had to reassess later down the line. Did it make no difference initially and it was all Randy's expectation bias talking? Did it actually make initial positive difference and then no difference later due to changed circumstances in his system or his hearing or the music evaluated? Did Randy convince himself upon second listening that it made no difference, even though it did? No one will ever know for certain, but at least Randy didn't have a vested interest in coming to his ultimate conclusion, unlike those who currently own the equipment and those who have reputations for objectivity to uphold.
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The ASR findings on power conditioners seem pretty clear. If one has a well design piece of equipment then what it is plugged into doesn’t seem to matter. Most of these power products seem to do more to harm than improve.
Claims made by most manufacturers are the same. Use references to things which are very difficult to quantify. For this they aren’t necessarily lying but are certainly playing on the reality of the biases.
I continue to wonder what will get some to consider some of the tests being done as pivotal when it comes to buying decisions versus conformational IF the measurements support their experience.
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I was really letdown and disappointed when it became apparent that the 156 really didn't help with the electricity problem that degrades the sonics of my system in the evening hours. I resisted the temptation to put it back in before I sold it, to check it out again, and then to maybe even get another one and give it another shot. All the testimonials make it tempting even though I know better from personal experience. That's what I did with the PS Audio regenerators. Hope springs eternal, and I thought or hoped each newer version would work for me only to be disappointed all over again. One of my more recent experiments was with a Core Power Technologies "Deep Core." Like with the Puritan, at first I thought it made a big difference and that I'd finally found a pc that worked. In the same way, as with the Puritan, after a few weeks it slowly dawned on me that it really wasn't making any improvement in the sonics and things still turned bad at the usual time. I have no explanation of why this happened with these two units. At first I thought they were great, but then later realized they actually weren't - at least for me. Maybe I'm just an idiot. That said, I really like those Puritan power cords and even got a second one for a different unit.
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I was really letdown and disappointed when it became apparent that the 156 really didn't help with the electricity problem that degrades the sonics of my system in the evening hours.
This is a common problem that doesn't have anything to do with the brand of power conditioner. If a PS Audio regenerator didn't resolve the issue, then the problem may be much larger than you can fix on your own.
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This is a common problem that doesn't have anything to do with the brand of power conditioner. If a PS Audio regenerator didn't resolve the issue, then the problem may be much larger than you can fix on your own.
The mysterious part is that I get superb sound with pristine electricity during the day. It goes in the toilet once the sun sets, and I can hear a slow degradation as night approaches. I've gone to the Rocky Mt. Power offices and asked what they do differently starting in the evening hours and they said nothing. Should be the same, they said, 24/7 which I doubt on general principals. Anyway, they couldn't offer any suggestions to help me out.
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Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman is an excellent book for understanding how the brain has evolved and how easy it is to fool the brain, and for the brain to fool itself. Marketers know this stuff, but the general public doesn’t.
When a manufacturer advertises that you’ll hear X and Y when you use their product, as soon as you read that, your brain is unconsciously “primed” to experience that result. It is near impossible to shake that priming, even if you consciously try to. End result - through no effort/fault of your own, you experience that result. There are many other biases at work and collectively, it’s damn hard to recognize them all and stay objective.
I’d encourage all audiophiles to read this book - it just might change the way you view this hobby and how you’ve been interacting with it. It’s changed my perspective profoundly. This isn’t about tastes and preferences, it’s about understanding what others are intentionally doing to create a bias in you and influence purchase decisions.
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Placebo effect similarly affecting dozens of listeners OR one guy not getting it right?
I wonder which is more probable...
You underestimate your subconscious mind and group think- google 'placebo effect' and also check out Blink by Malcom Gladwell.
I have seen very concerned people testifying that taking covid vaccine attracts metals to their bodies-they genuinely believe it. Mind works in crazy ways. :o
Coming back to PSM156- there have been many who tried it and loved it and many who did not find any major impact. Best is to try in your system and be honest about it.
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Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman is an excellent book for understanding how the brain has evolved and how easy it is to fool the brain, and for the brain to fool itself. Marketers know this stuff, but the general public doesn’t.
When a manufacturer advertises that you’ll hear X and Y when you use their product, as soon as you read that, your brain is unconsciously “primed” to experience that result. It is near impossible to shake that priming, even if you consciously try to. End result - through no effort/fault of your own, you experience that result. There are many other biases at work and collectively, it’s damn hard to recognize them all and stay objective.
I’d encourage all audiophiles to read this book - it just might change the way you view this hobby and how you’ve been interacting with it. It’s changed my perspective profoundly. This isn’t about tastes and preferences, it’s about understanding what others are intentionally doing to create a bias in you and influence purchase decisions.
It doesn't matter whether your brain is fooled -- especially in this hobby -- for many reasons --
1. You're not going to know if your brain is fooled because you need your fooled brain to determine if your brain is fooled
2. 99% of this hobby is all about fooling the brain into thinking you're listening to something that resembles real music and it doesn't -- not even close!
3. it's foolish to spend the kind of money we do on gear and cables -- you gotta be damn near brain dead to do it :o
4. you also gotta be a bit crazy to participate in an online conversation with strangers about the sonic merits of power conditioners
5. no one with half a brain would take any manufacturer's claims seriously; it's called marketing, not truthtelling, and marketing is 99% bullsh*t.
6. no one cares about expectation bias. If I expect to hear an improvement and I do, then no one can convince me otherwise. It's an experience, and whether it's real or imagined is irrelevant.
7. Each of us intentionally influences our purchase decisions every day. We often give ourselves ridiculous reasons for buying stuff we don't need. Does anyone really need a $2,500 power conditioner??? Nope, but we want one anyway....
8. ...because all of us are in the business of buying a feeling -- the product and price doesn't matter so much.
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It doesn't matter whether your brain is fooled -- especially in this hobby -- for many reasons --
1. You're not going to know if your brain is fooled because you need your fooled brain to determine if your brain is fooled
2. 99% of this hobby is all about fooling the brain into thinking you're listening to something that resembles real music and it doesn't -- not even close!
3. it's foolish to spend the kind of money we do on gear and cables -- you gotta be damn near brain dead to do it :o
4. you also gotta be a bit crazy to participate in an online conversation with strangers about the sonic merits of power conditioners
5. no one with half a brain would take any manufacturer's claims seriously; it's called marketing, not truthtelling, and marketing is 99% bullsh*t.
6. no one cares about expectation bias. If I expect to hear an improvement and I do, then no one can convince me otherwise. It's an experience, and whether it's real or imagined is irrelevant.
7. Each of us intentionally influences our purchase decisions every day. We often give ourselves ridiculous reasons for buying stuff we don't need. Does anyone really need a $2,500 power conditioner??? Nope, but we want one anyway....
8. ...because all of us are in the business of buying a feeling -- the product and price doesn't matter so much.
I beg to differ. These biases aren’t just part of the audio world, they affect every part of your life. Understanding them enables one to make more informed decisions in every aspect of your life. Additionally, these biases aren’t just planted by marketers and manufacturers - they’re unknowingly planted by friends, family and other trusted parties. I’m not saying there’s anything inherently wrong with traveling along your merry way based on these biases, although they can cost you money you didn’t need to spend and result in unnecessary issues in other parts of your life.
For me personally, understanding these biases has enabled me to reduce the cost and complexity of my system, while increasing my enjoyment of it. A win-win from my perspective.
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So how exactly do you use this understanding to reduce the cost and complexity of your system?
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So how exactly do you use this understanding to reduce the cost and complexity of your system?
You gotta fool your brain into accepting the idea that merely reading a book on biases allows one to reduce cost and increase the enjoyment of one's audio system. That's great, BTW, if you pulled that off. It's probably only temporary, though. The upgrade voice is louder than the whisper of the cheaper system.
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So how exactly do you use this understanding to reduce the cost and complexity of your system?
1) I took a very critical look at each thing in my system to determine if it really made a difference (cables, power conditioning, decoupling tweaks, etc). In all cases bar none, my honest assessment was that I was biased by the feedback of others, they didn’t improve my system and in many cases detracted from it.
2) I took a critical look at my components, why I bought them and their objective performance. I’ve been a subjective only audiophile for 35+ years, yet I was never really satisfied with my system. Something was always not quite right, so I churned through a ton of gear over those years. I’ve now assembled a simple system of objectively high-performing gear, which sounds great together and has enabled me to get off the merry-go-round. It’s amazing how many minor issues in your system disappear when the individual parts and pieces perform objectively better than many of their counterparts.
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You gotta fool your brain into accepting the idea that merely reading a book on biases allows one to reduce cost and increase the enjoyment of one's audio system. That's great, BTW, if you pulled that off. It's probably only temporary, though. The upgrade voice is louder than the whisper of the cheaper system.
Simply reading the book does nothing. Without conscious action to change, it’s worthless. Clearly you’re not interested in conscious action to address your own biases. No harm, no foul - it’s your life.
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So how exactly do you use this understanding to reduce the cost and complexity of your system?
Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting one can go from an expensive rig to a cheap and cheerful rig with amazing performance gains. My system is listed below and while simple, isn’t cheap by any stretch of the imagination. I’m simply suggesting there’s nothing wrong with gaining additional understanding of how your brain works and using that information in a productive manner - nothing more, nothing less.
Matrix Audio Element X
Neurochrome Modulus-286 (built by Tom Christiansen)
KEF LS50 Meta
Benchmark interconnects and speaker cable
TCA HPA-1 for headphone listening
Quad ERA-1 headphones
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Can you elaborate on what amounts to a critical look in your book?
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1) I took a very critical look at each thing in my system to determine if it really made a difference (cables, power conditioning, decoupling tweaks, etc). In all cases bar none, my honest assessment was that I was biased by the feedback of others, they didn’t improve my system and in many cases detracted from it.
My question is similar to genjamon --
After your honest assessment, how did you determine you were being biased by the feedback of others? Could there have been another reason for removing or replacing a component or cable?? For instance, we don't talk enough about how our preferences and perceptions change daily, monthly, annually, etc. Today you like something, tomorrow you don't. Happens all of the time.
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Can you elaborate on what amounts to a critical look in your book?
I considered the following:
1) What was my original motivation for a purchase?
2) Was there data that supported the purchase or was it based on what I had heard or read?
3) How did I feel about the purchase initially?
4) Was that response a result of priming or confirmation bias?
5) How did I feel about the purchase now?
6) Is there objective data available now for the item purchased?
7) Was I trying to offset a problem somewhere else in my system?
8) Was I successful?
I’m sure there’s more. It’s hard to be honest with yourself and use this knowledge in a meaningful way. No one wants to admit they spent a shit ton of money over the years and haven’t arrived at a satisfactory destination. After thinking through this and all the stuff I’ve had over the years, I ended up where I am now, with a single regret - selling my Karan Acoustics KA-i180 Mk2 integrated amp; wish I still had it.
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My question is similar to genjamon --
After your honest assessment, how did you determine you were being biased by the feedback of others? Could there have been another reason for removing or replacing a component or cable?? For instance, we don't talk enough about how our preferences and perceptions change daily, monthly, annually, etc. Today you like something, tomorrow you don't. Happens all of the time.
Certainly there were some instances where a functionality change was needed or a different cable termination, which lead to a change. In the vast majority of instances, my decisions were influenced by the world of subjective audio and the belief that a change based on a subjective opinion read or heard somewhere would address my need.
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Has anyone tried the whole house solution? https://equitech.com/productsold/wall-cabinet-systems/
I know many studios use this approach. I have considered. I have had conditioners that made little to no difference and one that made a profound difference (Dale Pitcher's Mosaic Audio) which is no longer made.
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Any Puritan PSM136/156 owners have the ground master city in their setups? Wondering if it helps much.
https://www.audioarchon.com/product-page/puritan-audio-groundmaster-city
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You underestimate your subconscious mind and group think- google 'placebo effect' and also check out Blink by Malcom Gladwell.
I have seen very concerned people testifying that taking covid vaccine attracts metals to their bodies-they genuinely believe it. Mind works in crazy ways. :o
Coming back to PSM156- there have been many who tried it and loved it and many who did not find any major impact. Best is to try in your system and be honest about it.
Kishore, your PM is full. Dont know any other way to get in contact with you.
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Greetings!
New owner of a Puritan PSM-156. Only been installed for a couple of days. I had a Powerware UPS doing power regeneration - isolation duties. On a recommendation - I was told to ditch it and get a true audio designed power block. His recommendation was ISOL-8 products. I looked at them, seemed very nice, British made like the Puritan products. However, when I contacted USA dealer I got no response. Not what I was looking for plus around 2x more in cost than the PSM-156.
After digging around I found the Puritan products - seemed like folks were pretty happy with them, looked well engineered so I pulled the trigger.
Stone cold out of the box the PSM-156 seemed to provide a more relaxed sound - maybe a more coherent sound field. It definitely changed the the sound quality (SQ) and for the better. And then curiously - intermittently over the next few hours as I spun vinyl the sound got constrained and smeared - like I had tube trouble. Enough so that I was very aware of a SQ change and not for the better. I recognize burn in when I hear it - a wacked broken smeared sound field that makes you wonder what is going on.
My system is fairly resolving so it was easy to hear. I've read through this whole thread - several comments on burn in. To install the PSM-156 I moved all my power cords and did some house cleaning - changes like that can also cause SQ changes - just need to let things settle in.
I've got the tuner playing today. Lets see what some time does - I read 2 weeks - not sure what that means in actual powered on system time. I suppose between 50-100 hours things should settle down.
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Getting close to 30 hours of system time. SQ has settled back into a more relaxed flow of music. Musicians seem to come out of a blacker background with space around them. Tone and tempo seem much more like you think they should. After some reading and consultation I'll probably upgrade the AC input power cord. Came with a Puritan Classic 2M PC. All in all - a nice upgrade along with a more organized place for power cables.
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Late to the party..
Any dealers allowing home trials?
Like to compare it to a Shunyata Hydra Delta D6 I'm auditioning at the moment.
Thanks
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Hi guys, I have read nothing but the good things about PSM 136 and especially PSM156.But did anyone try Puritan power strips?Are they any good???I'm planning to purchase either; Puritan PS 106 for $1250, Puritan PSM 136 for $1850 or Puritan PSM 156 for $2650.On the top of it, I'm thinking to purchase power cord for my cd player, Cardas Parsec $360 or Cardas Clear Cygnes $525.All the prices are in canadian $ and tax included.I have 3 audio components; Bryston amp 4B³, preamp BP-17³ and cd player BCD-3.I want to buy good, but I don't want to buy overkill... (but on the other hand, does word "overkill" exist in audiophile's vocabulary???)Please, point me in the right direction.
Ps.There's Sony LCD, internet modem and small media player. behind audio rack.I guess, I'll connect them to the same outlet.
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Remember a thread years ago where Bryston did NOT believe in power conditioning.
Reason I believe was that power strips and some conditioners could not handle the power the amp needed for dynamic peaks ect.
I’m sure I’m a just a bit off on this.
I do know for sure that when I used some S products then went with the Torus(Bit) products,
Night and day difference.
I think power strips defiantly choke the dynamics of an amp(especially like a 4B,I use 28s and 7s.
And if you do a sneak peak into these strips or boxes,a total joke.
And even some companies say that when thier boxes where exposed from the inside out,that their prices were justified by the market,yet ripping of customers.
You can always Home Audition and decide for yourself.
I will admit I went crazy years ago with S products as I had 12 components and 5 amps with dual subs.
Read about the Torus and END of Story.
Have had the 20a and 60a in my system for years and I will not sell them.
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Life's too short, so I just purchased Puritan PSM156.
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Life's too short, so I just purchased Puritan PSM156.
Welcome to the club.
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Welcome to the club.
Why, thank you Early B.Now, where's me jacket?!?!?!
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After reading the comments here, my Puritan PSM 156 will arrive tomorrow :thumb:
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How many of you plug in your amp/ int amp in to your 156? Or is it just for front end stuff? Thanks.
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How many of you plug in your amp/ int amp in to your 156? Or is it just for front end stuff? Thanks.
I've tried both ways and found that I preferred my SET amp plugged directly into the wall. Everything else goes through the 136.
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Any of y’all compare the Puritans to the Buss series from PI Audio? I’ve had a Buss now for a decade and a, curious about the Puritan. Anyone done the comparison? Or have a demo or loaner that I could compare and report back?
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How many of you plug in your amp/ int amp in to your 156? Or is it just for front end stuff? Thanks.
I plug everything into my 156. It's designed to protect your audio gear, so I let it do what it do.
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I plug everything into my 156. It's designed to protect your audio gear, so I let it do what it do.
I do the same. I've had mine for about 6 months now and it solved all my AC problems. I purchased direct from the UK and saved a bundle and no sales tax or VAT! I am now contemplating a better PC for it. Any suggestions?
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I am now contemplating a better PC for it. Any suggestions?
I use a Wywires Platinum 20-amp power cord with Furutech FI-50 NCF (R) connector.
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For whole house surge protection at the mains coming into the main panel I use Environmental EP-2050
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243948)
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I use a Wywires Platinum 20-amp power cord with Furutech FI-50 NCF (R) connector.
Whew, that's $1K cable if not mistaken. I'm sure my PSM 156 would like it though ...
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Genuine Furutech NCF connectors ain’t cheap. The bulk of the cost of a $1k cable, unfortunately. Not sure what you think of international intellectual property rights infringement, but I’ve had cables with the genuine Furutech and compared with some of the Chinese knockoffs. IMO the Chinese knockoffs can be close to the genuine performance, and at a quarter of the price. Just can’t vouch for all knock-offs, though.
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Genuine Furutech NCF connectors ain’t cheap. The bulk of the cost of a $1k cable, unfortunately. Not sure what you think of international intellectual property rights infringement, but I’ve had cables with the genuine Furutech and compared with some of the Chinese knockoffs. IMO the Chinese knockoffs can be close to the genuine performance, and at a quarter of the price. Just can’t vouch for all knock-offs, though.
If buying new, the $1K price doesn't include the NCF connector. Nevertheless, that's been my experience, as well. Chinese knockoffs can be really good if you're willing to roll the dice with no guarantees, no returns, no warranty, and no resale value.
The Puritan deserves a high-end power cord. There was a not-so-subtle improvement when I replaced the Purtian power cord with the Wywires.
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Whew, that's $1K cable if not mistaken. I'm sure my PSM 156 would like it though ...
I own several WyWire cables and I am very happy with them. Alex is offering 40% off on his cables, so that makes the platinum (or any other level) much more affordable.
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I would have thought the obvious choice for a "better" PC would be Puritan's own Ultimate model.
Has anybody been able to compare the Ultimate with other comparably priced PCs from other companies?
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A $2K+ power conditioner deserves a comparable quality power cord. If you buy a Ferrari, would you put $89 tires on it?
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If a conditioner is Doing it’s job
You don’t need a 10awg cable with the 1.5” foam insulation around those three 10awg wires.
Course to impress just like the fat tires with fancy rims she looks might fine.
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I would have thought the obvious choice for a "better" PC would be Puritan's own Ultimate model.
Has anybody been able to compare the Ultimate with other comparably priced PCs from other companies?
I purchased my Puritan PLC from Audio Archon and was told that in their experience the unit was fairly "agnostic" when it came to higher end power cables. Although, the owner did acknowledge that he has customers who did experience (some) improvements with higher end cables. With that being said, I ordered an "Ultimate" power cord that should arrive next week. I guess curiosity got the better of me. Plus, I was intrigued by the very limp nature of the Ultimate, that purportedly suppresses resonances. I shall see (or hear).
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A $2K+ power conditioner deserves a comparable quality power cord. If you buy a Ferrari, would you put $89 tires on it?
I couldn't agree more with your comment.Since the PSM156 is gamechanger or soundchanger for sure, I decided to change the power cords on all of my components.Preamp and amp are getting Classic power cords, but cd player is getting Ultimate power cord.
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I purchased my Puritan PLC from Audio Archon and was told that in their experience the unit was fairly "agnostic" when it came to higher end power cables. Although, the owner did acknowledge that he has customers who did experience (some) improvements with higher end cables. With that being said, I ordered an "Ultimate" power cord that should arrive next week. I guess curiosity got the better of me. Plus, I was intrigued by the very limp nature of the Ultimate, that purportedly suppresses resonances. I shall see (or hear).
Please report on your impressions once it has time to settle.
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I purchased my Puritan PLC from Audio Archon and was told that in their experience the unit was fairly "agnostic" when it came to higher end power cables. Although, the owner did acknowledge that he has customers who did experience (some) improvements with higher end cables. With that being said, I ordered an "Ultimate" power cord that should arrive next week. I guess curiosity got the better of me. Plus, I was intrigued by the very limp nature of the Ultimate, that purportedly suppresses resonances. I shall see (or hear).
How did you like the Ultimate? Did it change the Puritan?
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Enjoyed just reading through this thread. I have an office rig (next to and on the same house circuit of a dozen computer/networking equipment) currently plugged into an old Chang Lightspeed that I had around. As the system has been steadily upgraded, I'm now thinking quality power will be the next big move.
The Puritan 156 + ground master seem to subjectively to be a great quality:price point. So far it seems that there are a lot of comparisons vs Audioquest conditioners, but I'm wondering if anyone has compared it against the big marketing gorilla in the room -- Shunyata (more recent products). I'm specifically curious for your experiences on how the PSM156 compare to the Denali (V1 or V2) or current Hydra line up.
The Shunyata also have the complementary grounding Altaire line. Wonder if that can also work as well w/ the PSM?
Thanks!
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When I plug my AlphaLabs Line EMI meter into my 20 amp line for the stereo I read about 400. Plugged into the PSM156 I get about 95. The last Shunyata I tried was a 6000S Denali. It didn't do sqwat for noise. I turned and burned it. Tried the Inakustik and it was very good but the 156 beat it easily.
After all that, today's system is even quieter due to the IC's and PC's. The JPS Aluminata's are so quiet I can hardly hear any hiss from the tweeters. So good I am considering not hooking up the groundmaster at this point.
https://www.audiogon.com/systems/10635?_gl=1*1gr85n*_ga*MTIzMTk1NTM3MS4xNjY2NzQ0OTM3*_ga_SR0PMVVEN1*MTY3NDQyNzQxMi4xMzEuMS4xNjc0NDI4NjIxLjkuMC4w
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When I plug my AlphaLabs Line EMI meter into my 20 amp line for the stereo I read about 400. Plugged into the PSM156 I get about 95. The last Shunyata I tried was a 6000S Denali. It didn't do sqwat for noise. I turned and burned it. Tried the Inakustik and it was very good but the 156 beat it easily.
Thanks for that info, interesting findings. Did the musicality/enjoyability correlate w/ the measured noise lowering? I care less about soundstaging/imaging, but more timbre quality, harshness, etc.
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When I plug my AlphaLabs Line EMI meter into my 20 amp line for the stereo I read about 400. Plugged into the PSM156 I get about 95. The last Shunyata I tried was a 6000S Denali. It didn't do sqwat for noise. I turned and burned it. Tried the Inakustik and it was very good but the 156 beat it easily.
After all that, today's system is even quieter due to the IC's and PC's. The JPS Aluminata's are so quiet I can hardly hear any hiss from the tweeters. So good I am considering not hooking up the groundmaster at this point.
https://www.audiogon.com/systems/10635?_gl=1*1gr85n*_ga*MTIzMTk1NTM3MS4xNjY2NzQ0OTM3*_ga_SR0PMVVEN1*MTY3NDQyNzQxMi4xMzEuMS4xNjc0NDI4NjIxLjkuMC4w
Are you saying you prefer the Puritan psm156 over the Denali 6000? Or just that the puritan removes more emi? Not sure what "burned it" means :o
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Are you saying you prefer the Puritan psm156 over the Denali 6000? Or just that the puritan removes more emi? Not sure what "burned it" means :o
The Denali was worthless. Sold it right away. YMMV
I do like Shunyata power cables and use their Sigma USB cable.
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The Denali was worthless. Sold it right away. YMMV
Good feedback. Was it the v1 or v2 of the Denali?
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Quite a testimonial comparing Niagara equipment to the PSM156: I've read enough, bought one.
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/power-conditioners-niagara-and-psm.263519/#post-4577307 (https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/power-conditioners-niagara-and-psm.263519/#post-4577307)
Hi all,
Just thought I would post my experience with these as a data point or two for the community. I have been steadily adding bits and pieces to my system over the last few years, and at some point, I had read about power conditioning. I had a few chats with people and the message I was getting was it made a positive difference.
I decided to have a go and took the plunge with a secondhand Audioquest Niagara 1000. My thinking was if I didnt like it, I could fairly easily sell it on without too much of a hit. One Ebay transaction later a good condition 1000 turns up on my doorstep and I duly plug it in. The one other advantage of secondhand kit is generally it has already been run in and you are hearing it as it will continue to sound.
So what was the result of the experiment? I liked it! I felt I could hear more detail, and the sound overall had improved.
(OPTIONAL READING PART: At this point, an important administrative note. This is what happened in my system in my house. Changing power stuff could well be different in your set up because the quality of the power in your house is probably different to that in mine and also different to other people who have opinions on the subject. If you have brilliant power quality supply and recently installed ring mains, chances are you will have a different experience to someone in a Victorian house at the furthest point from the substation. People need to remember these other variables! Secondly, I reject around 50% of new hifi kit I try out. Didnt like the Audioquest Coffee USB, didnt like the Innuos Zenith Mk2 etc etc. I post this because people often claim confirmation bias, personally I just ask myself do I like this more? If its the same, maybe slightly different, I dont bother, if its better, I buy it.)
With that out the way, back to the hifi! I was very happy with the 1000 and ran it for a good 6 months or so. Until the upgrade bug attacked me! I happened to see a Niagara 3000 come up second hand. Reading reviews it seemed it was a better product. There were technical differences, a power reservoir type system that supposedly can deliver high current almost instantaneously to help deliver powerful punchy transients that the 1000 lacked. What to do? Silly question, I bought it!
Was it better than the 1000? Yes it was! Better clarity and detail most noticeable to me, maybe slightly better bass, but not really stand out. Anyway, it was a step up, and happy once again as my system matured with better power. Fast forward about another 9 months. Whats this itchy scratchy nagging feeling I have? Oh, its upgraditis again!
The trouble was, I still noticed differences in sound quality from day time to evening, and from week day to weekend, in my mind, this is a classic symptom of power quality variation still getting through my system. Others might disagree but that was my thought process any way. I saw a Niagara 5000 secondhand, but now we are talking £3600+ even used. This is getting serious, Im not going to take a punt on that without a demo first!
Except its hard to find one to get a demo of. Reading around how other people had tackled the problem, I starting reading about another product, the PSM 136/156 family from Puritan audio. Didn't know much about them, although seeing lots great reviews on their cheap but effective power cables (whole other story right there - staying on topic!). Anyway, I saw a 156 second hand one again for £1000 which was actually less than what I paid for the Niagara 3000. One reviewer rated the 156 as better than the 5000. Well if it was equivalent, it still would have been a step up and at a £2.5K saving.
So today I picked it up and and have just plugged it in (A job in itself with all the cable dressing!). Although second hand, it had not really been used at all, and hence still is burning in. However, I can tell straight away the difference compared to the 3000. ITS A BIG LEAP FORWARD!!!!! This thing is brilliant! A true hifi bargain. The music is just popping out of the speakers and jumping around the room, there is so much life. Bass is punchier and taughter. Detail and clarity are improved without harshness or loss of tonal balance. This thing is GREAT!!! Cant believe it. Only downside is it has 6 sockets rather than 7, but stuff it, I'll get another one and plug in the TV to it as well.
Do yourself a favour and audition one. You may not like it, but I bet you will. (I have no affiliation with any manufacturer or retailer - its just a great product) The Stereo Times rated it a most wanted product of the decade, I can see why.
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Over the past 7 years I have owned at least 8 power conditioners and all of them made improvements in my system but NO where near the performance of Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136!
For the first time I’m hearing so much more information that has been buried by the barrage of ground noise; detail, ambiance, sound stage width/depth and note sustainment is remarkable by just adding this Puritan.
I have also bought their ground master device that is said to remove the noise from your audio system ground to the supplemental rod that has to be installed. This modification has been completed and I’m waiting on the device to arrive to discern any notable improvement but I’m quite happy with the results of this unit!
After listening to the youtube video, go to the 15:30 minute mark and see how much noise is removed even on dedicated lines...
Wig :thumb:
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/master-purifiers/psm136/
http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/ground-master/
https://theaudiophileman.com/ground-master-puritan-review/
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/puritan/
https://www.11stereo.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VX4buciMLM
Thanks for starting this thread over 2 years ago. This and many other reviews enticed my to give this Puritan conditioner a try, and I'm glad I did. (the PSM 156, not the 136)
If this thing makes the system sound better after 200 hours than it sounds upon plugging it in I'll be even more floored than I am now! Money well spent.
:thumb:
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I agree.. I went from a Niagara 1200 to a PSM156 and could tell it was an upgrade. noise floor lower and details seem to pop out more out of nowhere.
I'm a fan. I bought 4 Classic Plus PC's and upgraded the 20a main cable to an Ultimate XX. Love the super flexible design, no stiff snakes
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Thanks guys!
After hearing what the Puritan does, just had to share with my audiophile community...😁
Wig 👍
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Posted in the Spatial Audio board, but I thought it might be helpful here, too:
The Puritan 156 arrived a few hours ago and is already doing good things.
It is up and running with both amps, preamp, and DAC plugged into it. It is heavier than I expected, even after seeing the interior photos.
Even in the first few hours, the upper midrange is cleaner and less congested, and I hear better bass timbre and definition. Decay and room echo in recordings are more precise and fade out over a longer time. Everything sounds more natural. There was a veneer of grunge before the 156 that I now understand by its absence. The background is blacker.
Horns and shrill flutes have realistic bite and energy without being grating. Nothing seems slowed or smoothed over.
I expect that there will be some improvements as the bank of capacitors and other parts settle in, as well as the new Puritan Ultimate cord breaking in and everything settling into new receptacles.
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This thread is inactive, but if anyone reads through it in the future, I will update my experience.
The Puritan 156 is the most significant upgrade I've made to my system apart from getting the Spatial Audio Labs M3 Sapphire speakers.
Perhaps the shift from the Benchmark DAC3 to the Holo May KTE DAC was 90% as significant, but the Puritan has transformed the system comprehensively.
There is break-in. After about 150 hours, things started to sing, so maybe 200 hours is a good target. Based on the improvements I heard, I went ahead and got the Groundmaster since I am able to install a grounding rod outside of the wall behind the system.
I got the full 8-foot-long, copper-clad grounding rod that would be used to meet code in the US. The Puritan product literature references using two 1.2-meter grounding rods for even better performance. Apparently, 1.2 meters (4 feet in American) is a common length in the UK. It would certainly be easier to install, but it is half the conducting surface area. Equally importantly, it is not extending as far down into the permanently damp (and therefore conductive) soil. Because my soil is very clay rich (and hence retains more water), I decided on one 8-foot grounding rod instead of two Euro-rods.
I got a 25-foot length of 10 AWG THHN (Southwire brand) cable from Amazon. Home Depot will also sell you a project length of Southwire—good stuff, pure copper, made in America. I only used about four feet to run down the outside wall and out 16" to the ground rod, but it was very comforting to have enough to redo the job once or twice depending on stupidity issues arising.
I buried it about 8" down. THHN wire has a nylon coating on top of the PVC jacketing. This should protect it well from rotting in the ground. Maybe not enough for future archeologists to unearth it intact, but my plans to route it via conduit ran into issues that would have taken time to resolve (and to explain).
10 AWG will fit nicely in the hole in the binding post of the outbound (black) terminal of the Groundmaster. It might be possible to fit 8 or 6 AWG, but with only 4 feet of cable going to the grounding rod, I went with 10 AWG since that was readily available on Amazon.
The Groundmaster has been settling in for 24 hours, providing more of the same improvements I got with the 156—open, natural, detailed sound with much more articulated bass. Voices have become very natural. The crud on the A/C was the most significant limit to system performance.
Things are sounding like they were with my battery-powered Vinnie Rossi tube hybrid monoblock amps and preamp, but with even more natural detail and better bass. Dynamics are better as well. I've seen several comments about this being a bog-standard balanced power setup with a filter that will subdue dynamics. I feel a punch in the bass and swings from soft to loud, which I did not previously. The sound is more, not less, alive while being less fatiguing and purer.
Everyone's AC is different, but I can't say enough about the pleasure this upgrade is bringing. To be trite, it has unlocked the potential of my system.
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The US grounding requirements are that all ground rods are only connected to the AC power system at the main breaker panel. Do not disconnect the Safety Ground wire to any equipment or run a wire to any ground rod (especially one that is not part of the main ground rod setup).
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Yes, the engineer who created the Puritan Groundmaster designed electrical systems on nuclear submarines, and in the product description, he admonishes against installing a bare connection to a secondary grounding rod:
…[doing this] risks the potentially massive current from any fault between your HiFi and your local substation finding the easiest path to Earth through your HiFi with expensive, and possibly tragic, results! This is why the practice of introducing directly connected supplementary or dedicated HiFi Ground Rods is specifically prohibited
Knowing the law and the danger, he designed the Groundmaster to safely introduce a dedicated grounding rod into the Puritan 156 filter.
By utilising the Puritan Ground Master the hazards (and illegality) associated with the use of additional HiFi Ground Rods are totally avoided. …
With the Puritan Ground Master used in conjunction with an additional Ground Rod the potentially dangerous route to Earth of mains frequency currents is safely isolated whilst offending noise and disturbance frequencies are permitted a highly efficient, extremely low impedance route to ground ensuring their elimination.
Also, there is no disconnection of the existing ground for the house. The Puritan uses a 20-amp to standard three-prong grounded connector to the wall plate. It's a bit of overkill since the house circuit is only 15 amps.
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Got it now. Very interesting. Got me thinking about using the ground box to rod combo to ground individual components similar to Nordost.
charles
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The technical information on the Puritan site is paradoxical. There is clear consideration and discussion of some technical issues and no information on others. They do not discuss the potential use of the Groundmaster with other power filters. However, one of the reviews of the Groundmaster linked on the Puritan site does discuss connecting a Groundmaster, with good results, to the ground terminal of a pre-amp. https://theaudiophileman.com/ground-master-puritan-review/
It is a regrettable review. It shows two photos of wrongly screwing the bolt of the ground rod clamp into the ground wire. The ground wire goes on the v-shaped side.
I expect the challenge for Puritan is making any comment about using the Groundmaster with other components that they have not evaluated. There are certainly a lot of audio components that do odd things with grounding, given the absence of standards in the industry.
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The Groundmaster has been installed for almost three days now, and the sound has relaxed, keeping the detail, openness, and black background but moderating some stridency in the treble region.
I suspect this is a combination of the Puritan 156 needing to warm up (it has a bank of capacitors among other parts), the Holo May DAC needing to warm up (typical for R2R DACs), and the ground wire, Groundmaster box, and 8' ground rod needing to settle in. Whatever the reasons, there is a break-in time with the Groundmaster and new grounding wire and rod.
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My upgrades have been major over the past 18 months (commensurate with my wage).
All that have remained the same are my amp, speakers, RCA and power cables.
In the last three months:
2 x Plixir Elite linear power supplies for 2 x modded network switches, and router.
3 x Plixir Statement DC cables to match.
Teddy Pardo linear power supply for streamer.
1 x RTZ1 grounding box.
4 x Black Ravioli Big Pads.
Upgrades to my DDC; Audio GD DI20HE by Coherent Systems UK.
Sound Anchors speaker stands.
Next on the list is a Puritan PSM156.
Is upgrading the supplied Classic cable to their Ultimate worthwhile (for power to the 156)?
Has anyone tried the GroundMaster City?
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Can someone explain how the "non-sacrificial gas surge protection" works on the Puritan PSM 156?
If there is a surge, does it shut your components down. Then what happens?
Also, what is the small black button located near the power cord inlet used for.
Thanks for the information.
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Has anyone tried the GroundMaster City?
A friend gave me the Ground Master City as a present, I use it plugged into a spare input on my pre-amp. It made a noticeable difference to my system, everything was so much quieter that I did not even have to go back and forth doing A – B. So worth the money if you can afford one.
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Can someone explain how the "non-sacrificial gas surge protection" works on the Puritan PSM 156?
If there is a surge, does it shut your components down. Then what happens?
Also, what is the small black button located near the power cord inlet used for.
Thanks for the information.
Just quoting online sources here:
"Non-sacrificial gas surge protection refers to a type of surge protection that uses gas discharge tubes (GDTs) as the main component to protect electronic devices from voltage spikes and surges. GDTs are traditionally the strongest surge protection component and are ideal for protecting externally mounted devices that require lightning surge protection or other installations where massive surges are a possibility[1].
Gas discharge tubes function by providing a connection between the power line and a ground line, with an inert gas as the conductor between the two lines. When the line voltage is below a certain level, the gas does not conduct electricity. However, when there is a power surge or spike, the gas molecules break into positive and negative ions, creating a conductive path that diverts the surge away from the protected device. After the surge passes, the ions recombine to become inert gas molecules, resetting the device[4].
Unlike sacrificial surge protection components, such as metal oxide varistors (MOVs), which are designed to fail when exposed to excess voltage, non-sacrificial gas surge protection does not wear out or degrade over time due to its ability to reset after a surge event[5]. This makes GDT-based surge protectors more durable and long-lasting compared to sacrificial surge protectors.
Citations:
[1] https://www.diteksurgeprotection.com/blog/mov-vs-sad-vs-gdt
[2] https://www.acdc-electric.com/what-is-a-surge-arrester-and-how-does-it-work
[3] https://www.securitymagazine.com/articles/90138-the-benefits-of-smart-surge-protection
[4] https://www.securityinfowatch.com/access-identity/access-control/access-control-power-units-controls/article/21209429/how-to-choose-the-best-technology-for-surge-protective-devices
[5] https://www.safetyfrenzy.com/appliance-damage-on-surge-protectors/
[6] https://storables.com/articles/what-is-a-surge-suppressor-vs-surge-protector/
[7] https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/surge-suppressor-surge-protector
[8] https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/least-expensive-power-conditioner-surge-protector-that-won-t-worsen-sou
[9] https://prosurge.com/surge-protection-device/
[10] https://www.diteksurgeprotection.com/solutions/the-best-surge-protection-technology-for-your-application
[11] https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-surge-protector/
[12] https://allthumbsdiy.com/electrical/everything-you-need-to-know-about-type-3-spd-surge-protection-devices
[13] https://iaeimagazine.org/issue/july-august-2020/surge-protection-for-smart-homes-and-smart-homeowners/
[14] https://www.picknrg.com/en/resource-center/what-are-power-surges/
"
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Thank you for the detail information @newzooreview.
If I understand the articles, if a surge happens, the gas somehow converts to protect the audio gear.
Once the surge threat is over, the gas reverts back to a "normal" gas therefore not needing to "sacrifice" itself.
I wonder what role the little black button on the Puritan PSM 156 plays........perhaps you press that button to "re-set" the PSM 156 after a surge?
Glad I studied Marketing......I never would have made it as an electrical engineer!
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From the manual: “The input is protected against over current use by means of a resettable trip located just below the mains input socket. if the protector trips, check all connected equipment before pressing to reset.”
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Might as well post the whole page- some other good stuff here too :) sorry that it came out sideways
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256653)
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Thank you....this is helpful.
I suppose if the surge protection tripped, I'd unplug all my components from the PSM 156, reset the unit using the black button, then plug in the components and PRAY that everything works.
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Has someone compared the Puritan PSM156 to a Lab12 Gordian?
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Just bought a PSM156. My house is old and definitely doesn't have the cleanest power, I'm excited to hear how my gear is actually supposed to sound!
Anyway, I have more than 6 things to plug in and here's how I was thinking of laying it out. Thoughts?
1: Gustard R26 DAC (low current but important enough to be on its own)
2: Holo Bliss amp (high current) + Schiit Freya preamp (low current) + Willsenton R800i amp (high current but will not be on when Bliss or Freya are on)
3: Left M225 monoblock (high current)
4: Right M225 monoblock (high current)
5: Anthem AVR (high current) + OCK-1 master clock (low current and AVR won't be on at the same time)
6: TV (low current) + RCA to XLR converter for monoblocks (low current) + PC (maybe? low current when listening to music but high noise)
With this layout the only time an outlet will have more than one device powered on simultaneously is with the Bliss and Freya (only when I wish to add tube harmonics to the Bliss) and the TV + RCA converter, both of which are low current/priority.
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Has anyone compared the 156 to a PI Audio Uberbuss? I have a pretty tricked out custom uberbuss complete with GTX receptacles and the 156 has my interest. Am looking at a groundmaster city and routemaster as well. Coming from a Granite Audio Ground Zero.
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Yes. The Uberbuss does not do much in my main loudspeaker system, while the PSM 156 transformed it. I added the Groundmaster connected to a six-foot-long dedicated grounding rod, and that improved things further.
I think it depends significantly on the type of issues on the circuit. I do not have a dedicated circuit for audio, so I have TV, NAS, and a dozen other devices with switching power supplies sharing the same circuit. Before using the Puritan, I also had better sound later at night than during the day, suggesting that noise from the broader power system was an issue.
I use the Uberbuss for my headphone setup, which is my main system right now. The PSM 156 with the ground wire running through the wall can't move the distance needed to serve the headphone setup. Although I am selling the main system in anticipation of moving, I will keep the PSM 156 and Groundmaster for eventual use in re-establishing a loudspeaker system down the road.
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Thanks! I also dont have a dedicated circuit and have what seems to be a myriad of grounding issues I cant seem to get rid of. Occasionally I will even get some type of RF interference in the form of beeps at varying frequencies that comes and goes. Fun stuff!
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Beeps? Yikes!
Beeps sound like some kind of RF interference getting in separately from the electric lines. I am thinking of the clicking that cell phones can produce in smaller speakers.
Is there any WiFi involved in the playback? Disabling any kind of WiFi in the system or WiFi transmitter near the system could help.
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My PSM156 will be arriving soon and I want to make sure I have everything optimal. Interested in everyone's thoughts about the best solution here to some noise issues I'm having.
I currently have an issue that my PC is putting out noise both through the 3rd pin ground on the plug and through the HDMI ground.
When I have everything connected to my current power strip (Furman pst-8) there's both sporadic noise from the PC ground and a constant hum from a ground loop. Unplugging the HDMI at the PC gets rid of the ground loop so I know it's coming from there.
The signal path is PC to TV via HDMI and then TV to Anthem AVR via HDMI eARC port. Issue is TV and AVR are both not grounded (2 pin plugs) and PC is (3 pin) hence the ground loop.
The Anthem AVR has a chassis ground screw which I have grounded via a speaker cable running to a ground pin on a plug that's in the Furman power strip. This helped. Moving the PC to another outlet separate from the power strip also helped. I also have a Hum-X on the way which should break ground on the PC and fully eliminate the ground loop. Should I also ground my TV chassis like I did with the AVR? Or once I have the Hum-X installed on the PC, should nothing be grounded?
LG OLEDs apparently have a history of very poor grounding, even shocking people! It's definitely the case on mine, the other day connecting HDMI cables I nearly blew my speakers out when it shocked the HDMI cable as I was plugging it in. There's certainly something not good going on between my PC, TV and AVR. https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/103x2pl/lg_c1_and_others_grounding_issue/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/103x2pl/lg_c1_and_others_grounding_issue/)
Oh yeah, I also have a Groundmaster City on the way. The grounding wire for the AVR that's currently connected to a plug in the power strip will be moved to that when it arrives (along with any additional grounds, like the TV)
Appreciate any thoughts!
Edit: I added a ground to the TV via one of the USB ports and iFi Groundhog. The noise was already basically gone but this at least didn't make it worse, so I'm leaving it. Don't like the idea of AC power being passed around between my PC, TV and AVR through the ground of the HDMI and potentially messing things up.
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I would use the PSM 156 for the equipment that is used for two-channel audio and move everything related to video and home theatre to some other power conditioner or power strip.
Although the PSM 156 is designed so that noise from a device plugged into one receptacle should not add noise to another receptacle, I would not push that as far as you might be planning to do.
I am not entirely clear on why you are looking to overload the PSM 156, but it seems like a bad idea.
It could just be me, but when my brain is focused on two-channel audio it picks up small improvements.
When my brain is focused on video and sound, it is ok with a moderately good experience and the subtleties are less critical. I do understand that some people are connosoirs of the home theatre experience, and in that case I would recommend a second PSM 156 for the home theatre rather than exceeding the capacity of the one you purchased.
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I would use the PSM 156 for the equipment that is used for two-channel audio and move everything related to video and home theatre to some other power conditioner or power strip.
I am not entirely clear on why you are looking to overload the PSM 156, but it seems like a bad idea.
Thanks for the feedback but everything I listed is used for 2 channel audio...
I go from my PC to TV to AVR preout to monoblocks sometimes to power my 2 channel speakers.
I'm not looking to overload the PSM, I simply have a lot of devices that would benefit from clean power.
How am I overloading it anyway? Honest question. Is it not capable of having all 6 plugs in use? If you look back at my layout in most situations there will be 0 or 1 thing turned on per outlet, with the one exception being the outlet with the TV and RCA to XLR converter, both of which are low load.
Also buying a second PS156 is not an option. I'm not dropping another $2300 just to use 1 or 2 outlets on it.
If you could point how exactly I'm exceeding the capacity of the PS156, that would be appreciated. Peak power draw at any given time is going to be approximately 600W (home theater w/ monoblocks for front channels), typical will be closer to 200W (headphones or 2ch speakers) with these situations never overlapping.
Given that they don't overlap, I don't see why separating the two would change anything when either just the home theater equipment or just the 2ch/headphone equipment is turned on at a time.
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Thanks for the feedback but everything I listed is used for 2 channel audio...
I go from my PC to TV to AVR preout to monoblocks sometimes to power my 2 channel speakers.
I think what newzooreview is saying is "keep it simple." He's a nice guy, so I'll be more blunt: powering your 2-channel speakers through a TV and AVR are unnecessary and convoluted steps. Plus, you're screwing up the sound by doing that, especially since you've already identified the HDMI cable as a noise problem. No power conditioner will fix a system that isn't set up correctly. Start by configuring your system the right way. Discussing an AVR for 2-channel use with audiophiles is like kryptonite to Superman -- it makes us nauseous just thinking about it.
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I had counted the devices and the outlets and reasoned that you would be using something like a splitter cord to get everything plugged in at once:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259109)
If you are going to manually plug and unplug devices as needed to keep just one plugged into each outlet then it should be ok. The Puritan is designed to minimize noise from one device getting into another device.
Often the source components benefit most from the cleaner power since their signals are weaker and get amplified upstream. Having said that, I found that my power amps benefitted significantly from the Puritan.
A diagram of the setup could help, since I am not following the role of each piece of equipment. There is an Anthem integrated amp as well as two monoblocks, for example.
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Can you clarify, is the PC the source of video to the TV and dedicated two-channel audio as well?
A PC directly feeding two-channel audio to a preamp is typically a source of insurmountable noise that the Puritan won't fix, and running it through HDMI then TV then AVR is further degrading things.
I do wonder whether the Puritan would be addressing the biggest issues effecting sound quality in the setup described.
I would look to spend the money, perhaps, on an Apple TV box to feed my TV with video from Plex (locally stored files), Netflix, Youtube TV, and whatever else). You can run the HDMI out from the Apple TV into a $15 HDMI audio breakout box to get Toslink into a modest DAC (Schiit Modius, for example): https://www.schiit.com/products/modius
HDMI breakout box: https://www.amazon.com/LinkS-Extractor-Splitter-Converter-Chromecast/dp/B00XJITK7E?crid=3FEOXTEMTMS7O&sprefix=hdmi+to+tosln,aps,303
Then you can move the music onto a NAS and get a streaming box (Bluesound Node X, Volumio Primio as examples) and use their software to send files to the DAC for playback). Or you could get an Eversolo DMP-A6, which has a DAC built in, and put an SSD drive in it to stream music directly from the Eversolo to your preamp. It handles all of the streaming services as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vniWmD-HAoU
The noisy PC, the TV, and the Anthem are no longer in the playback chain, Toslink breaks any groundloops into the DAC, and your digital playback and streaming (Qobuz, Tidal, whatever) are coming from a good quality streamer directly into the preamp.
Would cost less than the Puritan as well.
My hunch is that refining things with the Puritan is only audible once the PC, HDMI, TV, AVR clutter is cleaned up from the signal path.
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I think what newzooreview is saying is "keep it simple." He's a nice guy, so I'll be more blunt: powering your 2-channel speakers through a TV and AVR are unnecessary and convoluted steps. Plus, you're screwing up the sound by doing that, especially since you've already identified the HDMI cable as a noise problem. No power conditioner will fix a system that isn't set up correctly. Start by configuring your system the right way. Discussing an AVR for 2-channel use with audiophiles is like kryptonite to Superman -- it makes us nauseous just thinking about it.
I have about $40k in audio equipment, at what point do I get to consider myself among these elite audiophiles too good for an AVR? :)
Anyway, I primarily just use the AVR when the other equipment is warming up or non-critical listening. Specifically my DAC has a long warm up time since it's R2R. Also the ARC room correction in the AVR makes a big improvement.
As for the HDMI noise, your comment is a bit confusing to me because isn't the purpose of a power conditioner to eliminate and isolate noise? Seems odd to avoid using it to accomplish what it's made to do!
It's probably a moot point anyway because I mentioned that:
A) I've moved the PC plug to another outlet and I'm also isolating the ground via a Hum-X, so that won't be contaminating anything
B) The TV (and thus the HDMI going through it) will be grounded to the Groundmaster City, dumping any noise into that, away from my audio equipment
I had counted the devices and the outlets and reasoned that you would be using something like a splitter cord to get everything plugged in at once:
If you are going to manually plug and unplug devices as needed to keep just one plugged into each outlet then it should be ok. The Puritan is designed to minimize noise from one device getting into another device.
Often the source components benefit most from the cleaner power since their signals are weaker and get amplified upstream. Having said that, I found that my power amps benefitted significantly from the Puritan.
A diagram of the setup could help, since I am not following the role of each piece of equipment. There is an Anthem integrated amp as well as two monoblocks, for example.
Thanks for the follow up. Yup, I'll be using a splitter. I've tested the splitter already vs connecting devices directly and heard no difference, so I'm personally ok with using one. As mentioned 5 out of 6 outlets will only have at most 1 device on 90%+ of the time. That 6th outlet will be two low load devices, TV and RCA to XLR converter. That 10% of the time for the 2nd outlet is when the Bliss and Freya are on at the same time.
DAC will be plugged in directly since it is most important, as will the monoblocks.
But again, even for the devices not plugged in directly, they'll be the only thing powered on for that outlet (other than outlet 6 as mentioned)
Here are all combos of layouts I use as requested:
PC > TV via HDMI > AVR > RCA to XLR converter > monoblocks
PC > Gustard R26 DAC via galvanically isolated USB + OCK-1 clock > (optionally Freya+ here for tube effect) > Holo Bliss > (optionally monoblocks here, using Bliss as pre)
Gustard R26 DAC internal streamer via fiber optic isolated LAN + OCK-1 clock > (optionally Freya+ here for tube effect) > Holo Bliss > (optionally monoblocks here, using Bliss as pre)
PC > Gustard R26 DAC via galvanically isolated USB + OCK-1 clock > R800i tube amp
Gustard R26 DAC internal streamer via fiber optic isolated LAN + OCK-1 clock > R800i tube amp
As you can see, even in the worst scenario, there are only 5 things powered by the PSM156 (DAC, clock, Freya, Bliss, monoblocks)
Actually writing this out has made me realize I want to move the Freya+ to outlet 6, thus eliminating the 10% case I mentioned and making it that only outlet 6 ever has more than one item turned on.
Can you clarify, is the PC the source of video to the TV and dedicated two-channel audio as well?
A PC directly feeding two-channel audio to a preamp is typically a source of insurmountable noise that the Puritan won't fix, and running it through HDMI then TV then AVR is further degrading things.
I do wonder whether the Puritan would be addressing the biggest issues effecting sound quality in the setup described.
I would look to spend the money, perhaps, on an Apple TV box to feed my TV with video from Plex (locally stored files), Netflix, Youtube TV, and whatever else). You can run the HDMI out from the Apple TV into a $15 HDMI audio breakout box to get Toslink into a modest DAC (Schiit Modius, for example): https://www.schiit.com/products/modius
HDMI breakout box: https://www.amazon.com/LinkS-Extractor-Splitter-Converter-Chromecast/dp/B00XJITK7E?crid=3FEOXTEMTMS7O&sprefix=hdmi+to+tosln,aps,303
Then you can move the music onto a NAS and get a streaming box (Bluesound Node X, Volumio Primio, Eversolo DMP-A6, as examples) and use their software to send files to the DAC for playback).
The noisy PC, the TV, and the Anthem are no longer in the playback chain, Toslink breaks any groundloops into the DAC, and your digital playback and streaming (Qobuz, Tidal, whatever) are coming from a good quality streamer directly into the preamp.
Would cost less than the Puritan as well.
My hunch is that refining things with the Puritan is only audible once the PC, HDMI, TV, AVR clutter is cleaned up from the signal path.
The list of layouts above should clarify your PC source question. Let me know if it doesn't.
I use my TV as the PC monitor, in fact that's what I'm doing now. So Apple TV isn't an option. Also my DAC, the Gustard R26 has a built in streamer already.
With my different layouts listed above you can now see the PC isn't always in the chain, and HDMI out from the PC is in the chain even less (one scenario). Critical listening is done via the streamer, completely separated from the PC/TV/AVR or via USB completely separated from the TV/AVR and separated from the PC USB via galvanic isolation.
Despite the first impression I made seemingly being that I'm an idiot attaching multiple noisy circuits to his audio equipment, I've actually put quite a lot of thought into this setup to isolate noise (fiber LAN isolator, galvanic USB isolator, ground isolation on the PC, grounding HDMI via the TV/AVR, buying a $2300 power conditioner, etc) while also maintaining convenience and ease of using multiple configurations.
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My hunch is that refining things with the Puritan is only audible once the PC, HDMI, TV, AVR clutter is cleaned up from the signal path.
Agreed. Keep it simple: a new source>DAC>Freya>monos.
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Agreed. Keep it simple: a new source>DAC>Freya>monos.
AVR won't be powered on when listening to music in this configuration, so that's exactly what it will be :)
Actually even simpler than that since the DAC is the source (built in streamer)
My intention was that when home theater equipment is on, music equipment is off and vice versa. Thus they should never interfere since they'll never be on simultaneously (at least not during any critical listening)
The question about grounding the HDMI/PC was a separate question to my initial PSM156 layout post.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
Anyway, I'll make sure to test all these different configurations and see first hand. If somehow I hear an appreciable difference with the AVR connected even though the PSM plugs are isolated and the AVR isn't even powered on, I'll separate that out. I can't imagine that being the case though
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Quite a testimonial comparing Niagara equipment to the PSM156: I've read enough, bought one.
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/power-conditioners-niagara-and-psm.263519/#post-4577307 (https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/power-conditioners-niagara-and-psm.263519/#post-4577307)
Hi all,
Just thought I would post my experience with these as a data point or two for the community. I have been steadily adding bits and pieces to my system over the last few years, and at some point, I had read about power conditioning. I had a few chats with people and the message I was getting was it made a positive difference.
I decided to have a go and took the plunge with a secondhand Audioquest Niagara 1000. My thinking was if I didnt like it, I could fairly easily sell it on without too much of a hit. One Ebay transaction later a good condition 1000 turns up on my doorstep and I duly plug it in. The one other advantage of secondhand kit is generally it has already been run in and you are hearing it as it will continue to sound.
So what was the result of the experiment? I liked it! I felt I could hear more detail, and the sound overall had improved.
(OPTIONAL READING PART: At this point, an important administrative note. This is what happened in my system in my house. Changing power stuff could well be different in your set up because the quality of the power in your house is probably different to that in mine and also different to other people who have opinions on the subject. If you have brilliant power quality supply and recently installed ring mains, chances are you will have a different experience to someone in a Victorian house at the furthest point from the substation. People need to remember these other variables! Secondly, I reject around 50% of new hifi kit I try out. Didnt like the Audioquest Coffee USB, didnt like the Innuos Zenith Mk2 etc etc. I post this because people often claim confirmation bias, personally I just ask myself do I like this more? If its the same, maybe slightly different, I dont bother, if its better, I buy it.)
With that out the way, back to the hifi! I was very happy with the 1000 and ran it for a good 6 months or so. Until the upgrade bug attacked me! I happened to see a Niagara 3000 come up second hand. Reading reviews it seemed it was a better product. There were technical differences, a power reservoir type system that supposedly can deliver high current almost instantaneously to help deliver powerful punchy transients that the 1000 lacked. What to do? Silly question, I bought it!
Was it better than the 1000? Yes it was! Better clarity and detail most noticeable to me, maybe slightly better bass, but not really stand out. Anyway, it was a step up, and happy once again as my system matured with better power. Fast forward about another 9 months. Whats this itchy scratchy nagging feeling I have? Oh, its upgraditis again!
The trouble was, I still noticed differences in sound quality from day time to evening, and from week day to weekend, in my mind, this is a classic symptom of power quality variation still getting through my system. Others might disagree but that was my thought process any way. I saw a Niagara 5000 secondhand, but now we are talking £3600+ even used. This is getting serious, Im not going to take a punt on that without a demo first!
Except its hard to find one to get a demo of. Reading around how other people had tackled the problem, I starting reading about another product, the PSM 136/156 family from Puritan audio. Didn't know much about them, although seeing lots great reviews on their cheap but effective power cables (whole other story right there - staying on topic!). Anyway, I saw a 156 second hand one again for £1000 which was actually less than what I paid for the Niagara 3000. One reviewer rated the 156 as better than the 5000. Well if it was equivalent, it still would have been a step up and at a £2.5K saving.
So today I picked it up and and have just plugged it in (A job in itself with all the cable dressing!). Although second hand, it had not really been used at all, and hence still is burning in. However, I can tell straight away the difference compared to the 3000. ITS A BIG LEAP FORWARD!!!!! This thing is brilliant! A true hifi bargain. The music is just popping out of the speakers and jumping around the room, there is so much life. Bass is punchier and taughter. Detail and clarity are improved without harshness or loss of tonal balance. This thing is GREAT!!! Cant believe it. Only downside is it has 6 sockets rather than 7, but stuff it, I'll get another one and plug in the TV to it as well.
Do yourself a favour and audition one. You may not like it, but I bet you will. (I have no affiliation with any manufacturer or retailer - its just a great product) The Stereo Times rated it a most wanted product of the decade, I can see why.
This is why power regeneration by PS Audio it does all the Puritan does, but also keeps your ac rock stable at 120V, you can lower it and raise it and you will hear how voltage fluctuation impacts the sound of your system, below 120V the sound became thinner and brighter, above 120V the sound becomes bass heavy and slow sounding the same thing we hear when some days are system sounds great than others like crap, get at least a PS Audio P12 for your front end gear and it will pay for itself with the improvement on your system sound, as big as buying new gear, of course fixing your room is a must even with a power conditioner.
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PSM 136 = $1800 (with their basic 2M Puritan power cord)
PSM 156 = $2,300 (with their basic 2M Puritan power cord) **fixed my earlier post showing prices with the Ultimate power cord**
PowerPlant 12 = $6,000
So, sure: twice the cost and running so hot it needs a fan. The PowerPlant may sound better, though. Steve Huff sold his PowerPlant and got a PSM 156, but that's just one opinion.
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Retail on the PSM 156 is $2299 so you can almost buy three for the price of the PowerPlant. I bought one to replace a PowerPlant for everything but the amplifier. The difference in noise alone was immediately noticeable. I've since bought a second.
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Has anyone compared the 156 to a PI Audio Uberbuss? I have a pretty tricked out custom uberbuss complete with GTX receptacles and the 156 has my interest. Am looking at a groundmaster city and routemaster as well. Coming from a Granite Audio Ground Zero.
I just replaced my uberbuss with the puritan 156. Still using a ground zero. Not an obvious difference yet, still needs to burn in. Will update later. Interested in adding the gm city to the 156, but likely to keep the ground zero for chassis grounds.
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Hi
Please where i can get to buy the puritan PSM156 in USA?
Thanks..
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OCD Mikey sells them. (www.11stereo.com) But you'll be able to find a few more dealers with a simple Google search.
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Email Brian (the US Distributor) for pricing and dealers.
proaudio@comcast.net
George
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OK. Thank you for answers,,
But I have a doubt:
Which is the voltage input and output of the Puritan?
If I turn on it in 220 volts I will can have a output voltage with 120 volts? is it possible?
Or If I Turn on it in 220 volts necessarily the output voltage will be 220 volts?
Thanks>>>
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Archon Audio who is in Chicago like the US Distributor ships quickly and probably has access to the most stock.
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Archon Audio who is in Chicago like the US Distributor ships quickly and probably has access to the most stock.
I've always found the US distributor to have what I want on hand and to ship quickly. I was also able to order a 3m Classic Plus cable in black sheathing from the US distributor. The stock color is brown, or "copper." The only downside of getting things directly from Brian is that he uses Venmo, and for a larger order the payment has to be split across two or more days because Venmo has a $2,500 daily limit.
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Which is the best upgrade, ultimate cable or groundmaster city?
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I have not tested the Ultimate vs. Classic+ cable. Adding the groundmaster (not city; I installed a grounding rod) improved things nicely in my system, and the groundmaster (or city version) benefits everything connected to the Puritan.
One of the improvements in the Ultimate cable is the RFI insulation, so using that on source equipment (like DAC or PreAmp) might be the most cost-effective approach. But in terms of most benefit for the price, the groundmaster (or groundmaster city) is likely the best option.
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I'm looking to purchase the 156. is the cable upgrade worth the money? Also does anyone have any suggestions of a dealer who may discount this to some degree or am I destined to pay full retail?
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I heard the Groundmaster City is like 90% of the groundmaster.
I just ordered the Groundmaster City for my psm156. Thought about the Groundmaster but my soil has a lot rocks and would never be able to sink a copper rod that deep.
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I was wondering if anyone finds the PSM156 or PSM136 bright, thin, dry, or sterile?
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Also Curious if anyone ever tried this: https://www.onfilter.com/ac-emi-filters-af-series
It seems to remove alot of EMI without raising impedence.
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Woops. I am a new member and forgot to introduce myself. I am an Audipophile- not a dealer of any sort.
I am a headphone listener only- and I live in Jerusalem, Israel.
I have a wonderful audio system and as of late have taken an interest in mains filtering. I currently have a Topaz Isolation transformer model 31 which has .0005 capacatance- the lowest of any isolation transformer ever made according to my limited knowledge.
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I was wondering if anyone finds the PSM156 or PSM136 bright, thin, dry, or sterile?
Typically, power conditioners aren't described in those terms. They either limit current or don't, or provide a blacker background. However, cables and audio components can sound bright, thin, dry, and sterile. Of course, a good power conditioner can reveal system weaknesses.
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Does the PSM156 increase output impedence- and if so- isnt that bad because it causes distortion? Id appreciate an explanation.- in as non technical terms as possible from anyone who can assist.
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I was wondering if anyone is using the Puritain cables to connect from the PSM156 or PSM136 ot their components and what their experiences are doing so relitive to other audio cabes?
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Puritan makes power cables. Output impedance usually refers to the analog audio signal between components. I haven't heard of a power cable changing the output impedance of a device.
To answer your second question, yes. I used Puritan power cables from my components to the PSM 156, and it made a difference. The vibration damping and resistance to RF interference seem to work. The cable lowered the noise floor and made it easier to hear subtle details.
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Did you compare the Puritan cables to other cables on your components?
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Yes, I had the system for several years before swapping in the Puritan cables. The PSM 156 and then adding Groundmaster (with dedicated 6 ft. grounding rod) made the most difference. The Puritan cables replaced Anticables, GR Research, Audioquest, and Reality Cables power cables. I would start with the PSM 156 and Groundmaster (or Groundmaster City) and then try a Puritan Ultimate cable on DAC or Preamp.
I did not do exhaustive A/B testing on a wide range of power cables, so I don't have much to offer beyond preferring the Puritan cables in my system compared to the ones I was using. But the biggest improvement was from the PSM 156 and Groundmaster.
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I have a groundmaster city due in tomorrow.
Next is the faceplate replacement so I can stand the psm156 on it's face.
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Do the Puritain Ultimate cables make the presentation brighter or thinner?
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Do the Puritain Ultimate cables make the presentation brighter or thinner?
Not at all.
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Not at all.
Thank you...
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Has anyone ever heard the Kinki Studio earth Power chord. It is $369 and the reports are superb....
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I am not a vendor. :nono:
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There are SO MANY power cables in this hobby. Respectfully, I don’t think this is the thread to get into general discussions of power cables. Maybe find a circle that focuses on cables and ask there - I believe it’s called the Path of Least Resistance.
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These speaker and power cables have been getting a bit of a buzz.
https://audiophilejunkie.com/blue-jeans-cable/
This appears to be a vendor posting, a product ad from Audiophile Junkie or their affiliates. Audiophile Junkie not coincidentally posted a video on their YouTube Channel in the last 24 hours promoting Blue Jeans Cable power cables.
I hope the moderator of this forum follows up on this.
This thread is about user experiences with the Puritan Audio 136 and related Puritan products. If a user is comparing the topic of the thread with another product then that is relevant. Someone without anything to say about the thread's focus is off topic.
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This is not a vendor ad, there was a person above asking about Kinki Studio power cables. I simply showed some cables at a lower price.
The only cable I am a vendor for is the Cullen Avius power cable I have for sale here :lol:
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Sorry I creted the confusion. My question was misplaced. I am NO vendor. Just asking because I am considering Puritain Ultimate and other cables and Puritain is part of this thread...
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Okay, I bought a PSM 136 recently and plugged in nad amp, samsung tv, oppo disc player, linn record deck, sonos streamer and a MF amp.
I have to say that transfer took me quite some minutes to do, then some more added time to get everything switched on and ready to play.
When i started listening to the same tracks/ tv programs and discs again I couldn’t remember what the original sound was like. So am feeling a bit glum that I am not hearing quickly and easily what others can ito improvements. I never did get domestic clicking/noises really but am still hoping things will improve with the Puritan in place.
So my questions are
1. Which of my devices are going to benefit most from being plugged in to the Puritan?
2. Do the devices that benefit most, benefit even more with all the others plugged in at the same time?
3. What is the easiest thing to spot for most people with a Puritan.
cheers
T
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The cleaner the electricity coming into your home, the less effect any power conditioner is going to have.
The best way to listen for differences is by taking away, not adding. In other words, leave your system "as is" for several days, let the unit get settled, get used to the presentation, and then one day listen to a track, plug everything straight into the wall, and listen to the same track again.
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The cleaner the electricity coming into your home, the less effect any power conditioner is going to have.
The appliances in the household add significantly to the noise on the common ground. Even with perfectly clean A/C coming into the dwelling, which does not exist, there will be plenty to contend with.
The best way to listen for differences is by taking away, not adding. In other words, leave your system "as is" for several days, let the unit get settled, get used to the presentation, and then one day listen to a track, plug everything straight into the wall, and listen to the same track again.
This is pseudo-scientific gobbledygook. If there's noise in the A/C, the power filter should take it away, not add it. So you should hear a difference, by your logic. If the power conditioner is in the system and you take it away then you should hear a difference. It's just a word game, not any kind of insight. :roll:
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The cleaner the electricity coming into your home, the less effect any power conditioner is going to have.
Should say, the better your audio equipment is designed, the less effect any power conditioner is going to have.
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Recently purchased a Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 156. I also purchased a Trifield Model EM100 Noise line analyzer at the same time. I was curious to see what my current noise level was at on my mains and how much of a difference the PSM-156 would make. According to the documentation on the analyzer it only reads down to about 10Khz, but it was showing I had a minimum of over 100 mv peak to peak of noise. According to the documentation 50 or below is considered good. Depending on the time of day this would change and sometimes it would be 200 or more. After plugging in the analyzer, the Puritan was measuring approximately 25-30. This definitely made a big reduction and I imagine below 10Khz it was also somewhat noisy. Did this make an audible difference on my system? I'm not sure yet since I just got it. Time will tell. The way I look at I will still get excellent surge suppression and know I will also have some level of noise rejection either way. The only thing I was disappointed about is I didn't realize the power cord connection on the puritan was different than my other power cables. I was hoping to try out some different cables.
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This is what I might do to solve that problem.
https://voodoocable.net/product/15-amp-to-20-amp-iec-adapter/
I think they have a higher end model in the $200 range.
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It's not a question of electronics (or, for that matter, word games), but rather one of human perception. There is difference between hearing something fairly subtle that has been added, and hearing that the same something has been taken away. At all events, there's one simple solution (so long as you're not a complete skeptic): try it for yourself and see.
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For those who are technically minded I ask: Does the PSM156 increase output impedence?
To be more specific- is the output impedence from the outputs of the PSM156 higher than from the wall?
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Also- does the PS156 filter ground noise?
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Link to the VooDoo high end adaptor:
https://voodoocable.net/product/premium-silver-15-amp-to-20-amp-iec-adapter/
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For those who are technically minded I ask: Does the PSM156 increase output impedence?
To be more specific- is the output impedence from the outputs of the PSM156 higher than from the wall?
This is the second time you’re asking this. You got one response last time, but no other takers. I think either people don’t know the answer to the question or don’t understand the question. For myself, I’m pretty puzzled by it. Like Newzooreview who replied to you before, I typically see output impedance discussed with reference to signal outputs of audio devices, either at line level or from speaker outputs of amps. Either way, the issues higher output impedance can cause are to create a frequency-dependent filtering effect, which leads to frequency imbalance (low frequency roll off) and phase issues at lower frequencies.
But I suppose technically all electrical devices have an output impedance, and I’m not familiar with what issues that could cause for mains power delivery. I mean, I guess higher output impedance could be associated with limiting current delivery, but that just a gut reaction based on Ohm’s Law, and I’m not sure if it’s applicable in the AC realm as opposed to DC. I.e. I only know enough electrical theory to be dangerous and am not the expert you seek.
Can you provide any more information or references for what is motivating your question?
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I think the easiest answer to his question is ask Puritan. I don't understand why some poeple refuse to go to the horse's mouth, don't be scared. :D
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I think the easiest answer to his question is ask Puritan. I don't understand why some poeple refuse to go to the horse's mouth, don't be scared. :D
I've often wondered the same thing :scratch:
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I think the easiest answer to his question is ask Puritan.
Agreed. If I ask a technical question on this audio forum, I know there are only 2 or 3 guys who can answer it. That means 99.95% of us don't know, but that doesn't preclude us from chiming in with ignorant responses. Yeah, it's best to ask Puritan, but you might get a bunch of marketing hype. But first, you gotta understand the question you're asking because it may lack relevance.
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I asked Puritan and they answered- company secerets- but essentially indicated that yes- impedance is raised by the PSM156. I thought one of you technical people could measure this and that is why I asked. Sorry to offend you all.
Regarding relevance, EVERYONE in the power conditioning industry AGREES that increased impedance harms sound. The only question is if removal of EMI and other benifits outweigh the negitive....
Here is a copy of Mikes letter:
_______________________________________ _______________________________________ _______
Hi Steven,
The only truly relevant measurement is with the instruments each side of your head.
We do not publish detailed blueprints of measurements, materials, methods or other design aspects. This is hard earned knowledge that we accumulate and apply towards a better sound.
The thing with conditioners is that they can do as much harm as good and balance is critical:
Anything in between the mains wall socket and the power input of the equipment is going to be bad, even a just few centimetres of cable will have a resistance to current flow and an eagerness to act as an antennae gathering interference, both bad.
But, the state of pollution of mains electricity worldwide is awful and this is something which has crept up on us massively over the last few decades with now very often in excess of a volt, sometimes several, of high frequency hash carried on top of the legitimate voltage waveform. And this is really, really bad for trying to resolve every subtle nuance, phasing and clue from a musical presentation.
We quickly discovered, because we listen intensively to every step we take, that that achieving more decibels of noise reduction for the spec sheet was very easy but definitely not desirable:
We noted that taking away HF hash liberated electronics. By not having signals blurred, smeared and buried and not having processes swamped by supersonic garbage, then being able to concentrate solely on those signals you want; not only source components but amps as well benefited, greatly increasing dynamics, broadening and giving greater depth to the sound stage and definition…….. But go over a line and you go backwards flattening the image and draining the life.
This circles back to my earlier comment that introducing anything in the power line introduces a restriction = bad. With power conditioning you are inserting elements to eliminate the HF noise but which by their nature will also have a negative side.
We went to enormous lengths to correctly identify the sweet spot of just enough cleansing but not too much, but this was not quite so easy as the sweet spot had to hold for a host of very different loads; sources and amps alike, amps of low power through to high power and Classes A through to D. After a very long time with hundreds of adjustments to a series of potential prototypes in countless different audio set ups we arrived at our solution of which we are extremely proud.
The PSM156 (and PSM1512) work by having the optimum degree of noise filtration, also taking care of star grounding, DC offset , surge protection and importantly isolating each connected component from each other so that cross contamination cannot occur. We think we nailed it.
Best wishes – Mike
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@rsbrsvp , while specs can help in a general way, the best way is to listen. I believe the distributor offers a trail period.
Compare the specs of a $500 solid state amp to a tube amp, going by specs the tube amp shouldn't stand a chance, but listening to them might tell a different story.
Did you ask this question to AudioQuest and Sunyata?
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I bought a PSM1512. Awaiting delivery any day. Also- 9 ultimate cables.
I got a good deal. But in my deal- no return. I plan to allow two week burn in and then one to two week trial.
If I am not happy- I'll sell.
I have done as much research as possible and I'd say roughly 80% of owners are ultra satisfied and feel their system was upgraded substantially. Roughly another 10% felt there was little to no difference- but no decline. Roughly 10% report thin, bright, sterile sounding results which were negitive.
I am a fan of sonic density and no report I have seen claims things sounded more tonally saturated with the PSM intact. It seems like detail, speration, crispness, authority, soundstage, etc.--- are the improvements which are constantly reported, and altgough it all sounds good on paper- I am concerned for the 10% who say things sound thin and bright. Specifically I have seen several posts in different forums claiming the midband is noticably thinner. Some claim a stripped sound. I am certain all this is system and ear dependant.
I'm looking forward to hearing myself. People hear differently and describe sound differently as well. The postive reviews are hard to ignore and are indeed in the majority....
Regarding those who say that a conditioner is not intended to effect the tonal balance, IMHO with my ears, EVERYTHING in a revealing system makes a difference. I would be shocked if I was in the 10% who heard no difference. Either it will be a big difference to my liking or not to my liking. I did not buy this for surge protection. That is a side benifit for me. I want sonic difference...
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If you decide to sell the cables, put me down for 50% off sale on one. :D
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Looks like Puritan will have a couple of rooms at the Southwest Audio Fest.
Here is the current exhibitors' list.
https://www.southwestaudiofest.com/exhibitors-list-swaf2024