Vintage Hearing; perception and aging

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jschwenker

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Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« on: 28 Feb 2021, 09:14 pm »
I just turned 65 and got a new hearing test. Results show a progression from previous tests and all have shown me to be gradually acquiring typical age related losses (actually fortunately a notch or so better than average, myself) As many others here may know, typical for my age we might see a roll off of threshold detection, relative to mid-low frequencies, of maybe minus 40 to 60 dB at 4 to 8 kHz respectively. (I appear to be lagging my peers here by maybe 10 dB or so)

Perhaps others can educate me/us but my science/physiological question comes to more the perception of audio spectral flatness at normal listening levels. This perception, at levels significantly above threshold, I suspect is not so tied to the curve of threshold readings.

A) I know that were I to listen to an audio system that had that sort of strong roll off, I would think it was quite objectionable!

B) Say that there’s a record I haven’t listened to since my much younger decades, when I knew it well. (there are plenty of those) I would 'tend to think' my memories of its spectral presentation/content would at least be accurate enough to observe if there had been such a large fall off in HF perceived intensity. I don’t seem to find that. Albums I knew had beautiful HF content seem (relatively) the same to me.

All of this seems largely a tale of somewhat fortunate outcomes. Once above our threshold, we do well. (?) Does anyone know of testing methodologies that address this question of PERCEIVED audio spectral flatness at listening levels above threshold?

Yours, John

Saturn94

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Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #1 on: 1 Mar 2021, 12:04 am »
Interesting.  I’ve always wondered how much our brains compensate for changes in hearing.


jschwenker

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Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #2 on: 1 Mar 2021, 01:47 am »
Yes. I’m no audiologist — don’t even play one on TV. BUT…

Speculating, that may be a valid way to look at this. Working around the gradually failing sensing/transmission equipment, the brain says okay, we know the world ought to have a flat (or at least fixed and known) audio spectrum. Maybe averaging out daily inputs, the brain continually updates the amplification map making the end product, the PERCEIVED sound spectrum, approximately as natural as it had always been.

If that’s the case, then testing of the kind I describe might be a little non-sensical.

Cheers, John

Letitroll98

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Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #3 on: 1 Mar 2021, 11:39 am »
The finest judge of audio quality was my latest ex who was deaf in one ear and hard of hearing out of the other.  She could instantly detect any high frequency hardness, any distortion, any change in components or cabling.  My unprofessional opinion is because she's spent a lifetime training herself to hear tiny cues in speech and media in order to follow conversations in crowded rooms and watch TV.   She cared nothing for hi end audio and if anything disliked the intrusion, but I always sought her opinion on all things audio.  So don't worry about losing some hearing as we age, the ear- brain adapts.

jschwenker

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Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #4 on: 1 Mar 2021, 05:11 pm »
So unless we are disabused of our above notions of how the “plastic" brain might work here, my conclusions are as follows: It is more important than ever for us aging types to listen to lots of well reproduced music. And, to do so at “sufficient” volume levels. (haw!) It is quite literally helping keep our ears/hearing system in good shape… How’s that for bringing it home!?

Saturn94

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Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #5 on: 1 Mar 2021, 05:59 pm »
So unless we are disabused of our above notions of how the “plastic" brain might work here, my conclusions are as follows: It is more important than ever for us aging types to listen to lots of well reproduced music. And, to do so at “sufficient” volume levels. (haw!) It is quite literally helping keep our ears/hearing system in good shape… How’s that for bringing it home!?

The old “use it or lose it”.  :thumb:

orthobiz

Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #6 on: 2 Mar 2021, 10:33 pm »
Sorry to not answer the question of the OP but I have hearing loss/hearing aids. I have a music setting where it somehow filters and boosts only the highs and I don't need to keep the hearing volume very high to obtain a benefit.

Overall tinnitus is my constant companion, I am unhappy about ruining my ears (as an orthopaedic surgeon I use a saw and now wear 9dB plugs during surgery, should have done it years ago) but am coping. Great sound still sounds great! I can once again hear the single triangle note in John Barleycorn Must Die.

And the hearing aids are helping me to stay married...

Paul

won ton on

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Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #7 on: 3 Mar 2021, 12:35 am »
Never underestimate what a good ear cleaning can do for your hearing,just did mine a few weeks ago' wow '.

jschwenker

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Re: Vintage Hearing; perception and aging
« Reply #8 on: 3 Mar 2021, 04:43 am »
Thanks, y’all. Got the long term tinnitus thing going on here, too, Paul. Mine’s fortunately just a low level constant 6 kHz tone that I can ignore pretty well all times except when I listen for it. Masks my threshold level a bit around there. But I remember the John Barleycorn triangle well — I’ll go pull it out!

And am a big fan of regular ear cleaning. Yay Debrox!