[woodsyi]

I don't think one can generalize and say that vinyl has superior sonic because we all have different listening priorities and capabilities.  For those who hear the rich tonal texture of vinyl and it is a priority, then vinyl is superior.  For those who cherish macro dynamics, clean background and the convenience of playback, digital is the way to go.  I like them both and I listen to both.  My go to format for vocals and small ensemble is vinyl when I am not in a lazy mood. 

[GentleBender]

Each will have their own opinion based on both experience AND inexperience. If you have the right components in place either can sound downright awesome. For me, I have found vinyl much easier to coax life out of those grooves. It started with a cheap TT and grew from there.

I have a very limited budget for my addiction hobby and have to dedicate it to one format right now. I choose vinyl because digital sources are constantly changing and many companies will not work together to combine strengths of techniques/formats. This has created a myriad of format options which confuses many newcomers, plus some of these digital files cost almost as much as the vinyl that I can hold in my hand. When I have time to really listen to the music, nothing beats pulling a record from the sleeve, placing it on the platter and dropping the needle.

[werd]

No, I don't think it's a hoax. Vinyl does by default what digital strives to do and can not.  Vinyl output is an analogue waveform. Digital is not and is at best a quasi sinewave that needs repair after the internal dac before output. Vinyl is True Hi-res by that analogy.

[vinyl_lady]

I have a high end vinyl set up with an SME 20/2 TT, SME IV.Vi arm, a Lyra Atlas cartridge and ModWright PH 150 phono stage. I also have a very good digital rig with an OPPO 105D with the ModWright tube mod on the analog output. Both are played through a ModWright DM 36.5 dual box pre amp. The vinyl is superior to the CD of the same album 95% of the time and it is not even close. Everyone who has listened to music in my house and asked me to compare CD v vinyl have come to the same conclusion--the vinyl sounded better. If you take care of your records and invest in a good RCM, you can eliminate the pops and ticks. Plus, as Doc said, vinyl is a lot more fun.

[rooze]

I got back into vinyl a couple years ago after a long hiatus. I quickly discovered the gap between vinyl and digital had closed considerably.

Back in the day my trusty LP12/Ittok would easily trounce what was close to digital state-of-the-art at the time, a Cambridge Audio CD2 player (and the CD1, which I heard but didn't own).

This time around I found that a fairly modest digital system (Cambridge Audio 851C) was snapping at the heels of a fairly high-end setup (Clearaudio Avantgarde Magnum/Benz Wood SL).

To widen the gap more in favor of analog would have required considerable investment, whereas to close the gap more in favor of digital, not so much.

There's a lot of digital bang for the buck, coupled with convenience and wider accessibility to media. With analog, the entry level price point if one wants something with a clear advantage over a digital system, is too high (for me) to justify its existence on purely the merits of sound quality alone. Of course if you like the tactility of it and the whole experience of collecting and accumulating; perhaps that musty smell of decade old cardboard, then knock yourself out.

[FullRangeMan]

Listen LPs without noises is as dentist promise:
Dental treatment without pain,
this is a thing that not exist, a myth created by fans.

A few years ago here in this forum an LP fan went on to say that the LP does not wear out with these new cartridges.

I believe some ears are less sensitive to LP surface noises and can not hear it(or so his mount say), but there are others who have more acute hearing and hear that hiss very clearly.

[Early B.]

I believe some ears are less sensitive to LP surface noises and can not hear it(or so his mount say), but there are others who have more acute hearing and hear that hiss very clearly.

An essential key to great sound is a low noise floor. If there's any hint of hiss or popping inherent in the medium, then I don't consider it to be high fidelity, no matter how much it costs. We spend a lot of money to get rid of that sort of muddiness.

With vinyl lovers, I think it's mostly nostalgic. You old guys are being transported back your youth and you're feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Pete Schumacher]

"They certainly don't cut to vinyl to capture an excellent recording."

They certainly did.
neo

They may have long ago, but no more.  Vinyl falls woefully short of high quality analog tape, then and now.  It always was a compromised medium, but far more convenient than reel-to-reel.  Hence the "look down the nose" derision of vinyl by audiophiles of the past who knew that tape was superior.

Vinyl can't handle the dynamic range of either analog or digital recording.  It does not possess the signal to noise ratio of either medium.  With each play, the recording is modified by the stylus.  Even the best cartridges cannot pass that diamond over the plastic surface without altering it.

I already stated that well engineered pressings by people who understood the limitations of the medium can sound great.  But the masters from which those pressings were made are in all but the rarest cases on either digital or analog tape, for a reason.

[vinyl_lady]

An essential key to great sound is a low noise floor. If there's any hint of hiss or popping inherent in the medium, then I don't consider it to be high fidelity, no matter how much it costs. We spend a lot of money to get rid of that sort of muddiness.

With vinyl lovers, I think it's mostly nostalgic. You old guys are being transported back your youth and you're feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.

Vinyl played on my system sounds noticeably better than digital. As to the noise floor, it depends on the pressing. I have some pressings that do not have a quiet background, and others that have an absolute dead quiet background, especially the new pressings coming out of QRP and RTI. While I love the routine of playing vinyl, I wouldn't do it if it didn't sound better.

[Wayner]

No, I don't think it's a hoax. Vinyl does by default what digital strives to do and can not.  Vinyl output is an analogue waveform. Digital is not and is at best a quasi sinewave that needs repair after the internal dac before output. Vinyl is True Hi-res by that analogy.

For just a few short sentences, that pretty much hit the nail on the head. Very nice and to the point. Digital's goal is to become analog, but it can't get there........

When humans can tell the difference a violin makes by the wood and methods used to construct the instrument, how can zeros and ones ever fool the human mind, especially of those musicians that have such gifts to detect the smallest distractions.

Wayner

[GentleBender]

With vinyl lovers, I think it's mostly nostalgic. You old guys are being transported back your youth and you're feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.

I'm not that old! I grew up with mostly cassette tapes and gladly switched over to CD, then to MP3 and FLAC. Not to say I ever had a good system, but my cheap Audio Technica LP120 turntable along with a free old-school Sony receiver with phono input surprised the hell out of me. Before trying it, I always thought that vinyl was full of pops and clicks. In fact it eventually led me here to Audiocircle to research more before slipping into this rabbit hole. Vinyl sounds so good, it tricked me!

This discussion will go on for quite some time. This audio world is like politics or sports, in that we all use the statistics that work for our cause. It is fun to see all the different responses and that is probably why this thread was started. Format FIGHT!!!!
    
My format is best!!!

[woodsyi]

It's alright.

Think of it as a practice.

You will be hearing and telling the same old stories during Thankgiving dinner with your family!

[Guy 13]

Hi all different media lovers..
For me there's nothing better than this or that,
they are all different with their strength and weakness
and in the end it's a matter of personal taste.
However, it's fun to see each one trying to prove that his media
is better than the others... 

Guy 13

I love all forms of media,
as long as they are not complicated to implement.

[neobop]

"They certainly don't cut to vinyl to capture an excellent recording."

  Blah blah blah.....

Ever hear of direct to disk?   You don't know what you're talking about.
neo

[Guy 13]

"They certainly don't cut to vinyl to capture an excellent recording."

Ever hear of direct to disk?   You don't know what you're talking about.
neo

 

Guy 13

[Early B.]

NM

[mcgsxr]

For the record I am a Gen X'r, so older than the 1000's by quite a bit.

I spun vinyl in the campus bar I DJ'd at in the 90's.  Dual Techniques 1200's as you would expect.

I don't own any vinyl myself.  I don't even spin cd's anymore.

The ritual for me is now picking songs on my iPhone/iPad (iPeng app controlling Logitech Media Server) and listening.

I am very pleased with the performance of my system, and OVER THE MOON with how convenient it is to pick off 300 songs to listen to when working from home.

Then blow that playlist away and with 1 touch hit my "pool playing tunes" playlist etc.

Love it.

[undertow]

I will take a different approach... I think it comes down to the exact pressing vs. the digital.

A hoax? No, but in fact it is if you believe you can just jump on Music Direct, and order the newest re-master overpriced version of plastic to spin on a table expecting perfect results, and easily beating digital. It's nowhere near "Plug and Play". For this reason I never recommend analog to anybody unless they truly have a handle on what they are getting into as its a continuous maintenance process that never ends, not just hitting the play button.

First off I can say not only from the convenience, and storage factor digital is easy, but also to keep it easier there are VERY few digital versions of most bands in the mainstream out there that everybody wants whether its popularity like Nirvana, Led Zeppelin, or Van Halen, the Beatles etc... 

So flat out most people get to hear a standard CD, a Re-mastered CD, or  they have delved into some version of "High Resolution" starting with SACD till now with 24/192 downloads or whatever.

However, with vinyl unfortunately the big cost up front with table, cartridge, cleaner, accessories, knowledge, perfect conditions, setup etc... is just the beginning of GREAT analog. The bigger cost, and experience comes from finding the perfect pressings on every favorite album not just from different factories, or years, or even versions, but the fact is even 3 identical pressing #'s will sound totally different in many cases. So consistency vs. digital is non-existent.

You can end up with 5 copies of the exact same thing, and 3 sound okay, one like crap, and one phenomenal if you’re lucky. And normally on the right system no digital version even if it was made on the moon with zero gravity lasers, and 42 billion bits of data will beat that one perfect pressing on the right analog setup for playback, however admit tingly this is not worth it to most, and is a huge undertaking going this serious into analog playback. In the end the only real way to keep the best recordings on hand is to realize many will be on vinyl, and the others you will use on digital. It seems to end up about 50/50 from my experience so I play both depending on which is better for that specific recording.

By the way I actually experienced Reel to Reel comparisons with the best on both sides, it is excellent, and in general can, and will beat most consumer mass pressed albums in many cases, but I have also heard identical results with vinyl on its own so it is very possible to end up with 200 or 300 pressings that will blow the doors off most other recordings depending on the band, and genre. But nobody is saying its an easy or cheap task. 9,999 people out of 10,000 are in fact better off just running good digital, and not even attempting analog even if they have the money because that's not even half the battle its the search for the best pressings that will kill you.

[Larkston Zinaspic]

Nearly everything in audio is a "hoax", because we keep looking for absolutes that simply don't exist.

And we're all slaves to the mastering engineer, regardless of the medium.

Distortion sucks, be it analog or digital.

[Wayner]

We are not slaves to a mastering engineer. He did his best and we listen to it. If you don't like his work, you can walk away from it. Slaves were lashed to their work.