AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Speaker Reviews => Topic started by: Stercom on 16 Dec 2011, 12:48 am
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I've had these speakers for a few months now. Bottom line: these are one of the best values in high-end audio! As many of you probably know, Dennis Murphy has started a company called Philharmonic Audio. Here is a link: www.philharmonicaudio.com (http://www.philharmonicaudio.com) From what I understand, Dennis has designed many audiophile products over the years but especially crossovers for some excellent speaker companies including Salk audio. He is also very active in the DIY speaker community.
I actually bought these speakers without hearing them first which is usually a big no,no, but I had read enough about Dennis' speakers and had heard his work with Salk that I felt confident in the purchase. I was one of the first to buy a pair. He referred to me as the "Guinea Pig". It took me a while to get them dialed-in to my room but a few conversations/emails with Dennis and I found the right placement, etc. Over the last few months, I have used all kinds of amps with these speakers: Shindo 40 watt amps, Anthem 200 watt integrated, Van Alstine Ultravalve, etc. I finally settled on Tube Research Labs equipment and I've got to tell you - its an excellent match! Very transparent and dynamic yet musical! The bass is only there when needed and is very tight - controlled. The midrange has a bloom to it that at the same time is transparent and clear. The treble has a quick attack but its not harsh. These speakers make music, not just sound!!! Excellent engineering and design.
There are a couple of things I should mention. First, the fit and finish is just ok. I think it will get better with time and Dennis actually gave me a discount because of a few finish problems. They still look very nice though. Also, the speakers do not come with spikes - I noticed a considerable improvement in the bass and lower midrange when I added spikes. I know Dennis will take issue with this next comment, but the jumpers between the dual binding posts simply color the sound. I added some higher quality jumpers and the music just seemed to be more balanced and natural sounding (I know that comment is very subjective but thats what I hear). Finally, they need fairly high power to sound their best. I would say a minimum of 200 watts per channel.
If you are looking for speakers in the $3,000 range or higher do NOT pass these up!!
*If you want to see some pictures of these speakers I've added them to my gallery*
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Thanks for the review! I have some open baffle speakers that were also voiced by Dennis Murphy. These are the first open baffle speaker that I have had and so I also had your problem in getting the speakers to what I felt are their max. With the ability to add stuffing, you get a lot of flexibility to get the maximum from the speakers but also it takes more time to go through all the options. I recommended a pair of Philharmonic Model 2s to one of my best friends even though they were unheard. Like you, I respected Dennis Murphy enough to take the slight risk. My friend’s speakers are expected in the next couple of weeks. Your comments were just what I was expecting. :thumb:
Bob
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Stercom,
Congrats! Dennis Murphy is one of the few (Very few!) loudspeaker designers I have come to respect who 1) clearly reveals all relevant measurement criteria on his website and 2) has a keen insight to what the word 'value' means.
Nice pic of your 'DUDE' in your gallery as well.
Enjoy, and Merry Christmas!
Anand.
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Totally agree with you guys about Dennis. I really think for him its about the music first, the engineering second and maybe the money (this is a business for him after all) third.
I've been asked to compare these speakers to speakers that have similar parts or designs as the Philharmonic 3. I'm not going to do that even though I have heard a number of them. I will say Dennis has no problem talking about his designs and why he uses certain drivers, etc. The RAAL tweeter with the BG planar midrange in the "semi open baffle" makes the sound float like no other speaker I have heard. The cabinets simply disappear. I think using the vertical planar midrange with the RAAL was a fairly significant advance over other designs that use a RAAL with a cone-based midrange. The Scanspeak Revelator bass driver was also an excellent choice, but I'm sure the Paul Kittinger designed transmission-line enclosure contributes greatly to how "right" the bass sounds. I think there is no doubt Dennis spent many hours getting the crossover right - the drivers are seamless. Anyway, this speaker is an amazing value.
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Great to hear about the Phil.
I would like to input my view from Dennis perspective. I asked Dennis about the open back design on audioholics (post 453 from the Philharmonic post). Dennis described that the open back midrange is better suited with source material that has natural ambiance such as live recordings. He mentioned that on material from studio recordings, that people may prefer the closed back design.
I'm curious as whether there was a lack of detail or presence when listen to music such as R&B, rap and other soft rock types of music. Obviously according the OP not :lol: but... I have never heard an open back design speaker. I always had the impression that an open back design creates a large soundstage. I would like to hear a more in depth description if possible, about the midrange. Obviously the midrange section is where it differs from other close back design.
Thanks in advanced
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Hi ricardojoa - After reading your post I did some A/B between the live recordings of Neil Young and Diana Krall songs v. their studio versions. I also listened to some live recordings that an audiophile friend has made of local choral groups and musicians. The soundstage was equally well defined with both types of recordings. If anything, I would say the studio versions snapped the players/instruments into more specifically located focus. The live recordings had a more diffused sound. But isn't that a characteristic of most, if not all, live recordings? I'm not sure that has much to do with the open back design. I also own a pair of Totem Arro speakers so I put them in the system and listened to some of the same recordings. I heard the same overall differences between the live v. studio versions.
I've owned LOTS of speakers over the years including Salk Archos, Gallo 3.1, Magnepan 1.6, Altec 604c in a OB design and Carver speakers. The midrange on the Philharmonic 3 reminds me of those speakers. Very open and natural sounding on all types of recordings. You do need to get the speakers away from the front wall and corners. You also need to get the acoustical stuffing right (as Bob already mentioned about his Soundscapes). But once you get them dialed-in I think you will really enjoy what Dennis has done with the planar midrange in these speakers.
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Hi Stercom,
How good is the bg midrange in the speaker. I no nothing of these types of midranges and I wonder how they compare with seas midrange which are used in my Salk ht2's.
Regards rod
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Hi Stercom,
How big is your room and how much space do you have around the speakers? Dennis's entire philharmonic line up looks great but given my small apartment space, i'm not so sure if it'll integrate well. Wonder if he'll do any future boxed designs :D
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Thanks Stercom, sounds like that there is nothing missing from the phil! Thats good news. Now, the room might be a greater challenge, as some may not have the adequate space, i mean myself. :(
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Hi Stercom,
How big is your room and how much space do you have around the speakers? Dennis's entire philharmonic line up looks great but given my small apartment space, i'm not so sure if it'll integrate well. Wonder if he'll do any future boxed designs :D
i did inquire Dennis about making a sealed version of the phil 2 but he said that he would need to redesign the crossver and is soemthing he cant do alone, He also mentioned that a ported version would be better as the sealed version wont go low enough for the planar. Actually, the more i think, a small ported 6 in migh be a good alternative. But sometimes, from a small room perspective, a bookshelf might be a better option as it is eaisier to place over a larger tower like then phil. So like you said, a closed back could be a good alternative. I hope Dennis could chime in his perspective about a closed back desing with the neo.
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I heard the speakers at the Capital Audiofest in July. I was very impressed. I was blown away when he told me the price per pair (I thought he meant each originally).
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Great stuff, one of the nicest guys I have yet to meet and someday I will just to shake his hand. A gentleman all the way around regardless of any type of financial gain he may or may not receive in the future.
Its great to hear such good things, I haven't heard this type of design either but I'm open to anything that sounds good, I wonder what an open back mini type 2-way monitor would sound like, would there be enough low end or more than enough??
If I took a stand mounted monitor and made everything like normal except left the back panel off, 5 sided open back and regulate the sound with stuffing, I bet the bass would be nil wouldn't it???
I'm ramblin..congrats Dennis, and great review!!!
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Stercom, I as well have had the Phil 3's for a few months now. I absolutely love these speakers. As far as finish, they are good but not excellent, definitely no salk. But the music they play is better than anything I have heard. Mine took a little playing around as well to dial them in. Not that they sounded bad before, but now the sound stage is wide, deep and they speakers just disappear. I have all the acoustic fill in the top cabinet. I tried with various amounts and prefer the more forward sound with the cabinets full. Even with full top cabinets, there is still added depth to the sound stage. My room is 15 x 25 with a bay window, behind the speakers, the width of the room. I power mine with an AVA ultra II 350 amp & an AVA Vision Dac/Pre. Everything sounds natural and very open with deep bottom end that is tight and very quick. I use Herbies Audio Lab Big Fat Gliders under the speakers with very nice improvements. These little gliders decouple the speaker and give some nice improvements in the bottom end. Stercom, I also replaced the jumpers. I never even tried the ones supplied by Dennis. For the jumpers I use 10 AWG wire with banana plugs. Unless I can afford the Salk Sounscape's one day, I think my search for the perfect speaker is over. Happy listening.
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Hi all - Lots of great questions. I'll let Dennis know about this thread is since he obviously is the one to ask. I can only tell you what I hear. As to my room, its fairly small at 12' x 15'. I have the speakers about 3 feet from the front wall and 2 feet from the side walls. I sit about 10.5' feet away from them. The sound didn't open-up until I got them away from the corners and the front wall. The amp you use with these speakers is important. The TRL D225 really takes control of the bottom end. As Smwick pointed out I'm sure one of Van Alstine's solid state or hybrid designs would work well. The AVA Ultravalve I have wasn't up to the task - maybe if I had biamped a pair of the Ultravalves............ :D
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I'm not sure if everyone is aware that these are ported out the top of the bass module. They don't use the wall behind the speaker for bass reinforcement. So you could have them up against a wall, not that this would be a good place for any speaker mind you. Moving them away from the wall will open things up and make the speaker have a better chance of disappearing. So they are very easy to place in a room. A speaker this size does need some room to breath imo.
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If you are looking for speakers in the $3,000 range or higher do NOT pass these up!!
“or higher” :wtf:
Move over Magico, Tidal, MBL and Vandersteen? :jester:
Bob
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“or higher” :wtf:
Move over Magico, Tidal, MBL and Vandersteen? :jester:
Bob
All I've got to say is: sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes you get much more......... :dance:
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Thanks very much Stercom for taking the time to start this thread. I'm obviously pleased that you like the Philharmonic 3's. I agree that they can take some tinkering with placement and stuffing to optimize them for a given room and taste, but unlike fully open-back designs, there should be a good place for them in any decent-sized room. To answer a couple of questions, the semi-open back design in the Phil's will only work in a 3-way with a dedicated midrange that can work into the open cabinet. There would be insufficient bass output if you tried this design with a midrange that also has to operate as a woofer. I have a design for a conventional 2-way bookshelf monitor using the Fountek ribbon from the Phil 1 and 2 working with the Seas reed cone ER18 woofer, all housed in either a .5 cu ft or .75 cut ft (for deeper bass) Parts Express cabinet. That should be available in late January, and I've already shipped one pair. I just need to finalize the price and gear up for it. Thanks again Stercom.
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You're 'Da Man, Dennis! I'm going to attempt talking the wife into letting me buy a pair of the Philly 2's early next year.
Thanks for what you do, Dennis, and keep up the good work. Enjoy your vacation to Germany!
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I also own the Philharmonic3 speakers. I just want to say they are great speakers!
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Hi,
Just wondering what you have compared the philharmonic speakers with and specifically whether they were salk sound speakers? I have a pair of HT2's and I'm interested in a comparison if possible.
Cheers Rod
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I have not heard the Phil 3s or the Salk HT2s but I have had a Salk HT1 which I am sure sounded a lot like HT2s and have had Phil 2s in my system for a couple of weeks a while ago. The midrange of my HT1 was a little crisper than neutral but it had as much excitement as live music. The Philharmonic 2 was dead neutral but not as exciting. Reducing the stuffing in the Phils increased the excitement much more. Then it was close to as exciting as the HT1s. Playing songs on both speakers I would guess that half might sound better on the HT2s and half would sound better on the Phils. Playing classical music or natural sounds I am sure that the Phils would win each time. I have SoundScapes that have the same RAAL tweeter that the HT2s have. It is a slightly better tweeter than the RAAL that the Phils have. The Salk RAAL covers lower treble frequencies and is better than any midrange that I have heard. The Salk finish is one of the best of the industry. If it was me, I would get the Phil 3s as I would prefer using it with TV and movies as natural sounds are so real. If I just used it with typical songs then it would be a tough choice.
Bob
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I heard them (3s) vs. the Salk Soundscape 10s back to back at the Capital Audiofest just over a year ago. The Philharmics are very impressive for the price. When I heard them, I though the price was for each, not the pair. I was shocked at the price per pair.
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Hi,
I keep toying with the idea of purchasing a pair of philharmonic speakers. Thanks for your comments.
Cheers Rod
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Hi,
Just wondering what you have compared the philharmonic speakers with and specifically whether they were salk sound speakers? I have a pair of HT2's and I'm interested in a comparison if possible.
Cheers Rod
I a bit late here, but I was able to directly compare a prototype of the Phil2 (the prototype used a BG10 mid rather than the BG8 used in the production version; Dennis said they sounded the same so he went with the more economical BG8) with the Salk HT2-TL at an audition at Dennis' place.
I was a tough choice choosing which I preferred. Both were excellent. With some material I preferred the Phil, and some the Salk. In the end cosmetics tipped the scale towards the Salk (of course those good looks cost much more than the Phil) and I thought the HT2-TL would be better for my space (a bit smaller than Dennis' living room). IMO, the open back design of the Phil benefits from a bit of breathing room.
I think if you like your Salks you will also like the Phils, after all, they do share a parent. :wink:
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Hi,
It looks like I might as well stay with the HT2 and just add a salk subwoofer at some chage to augment my bass response.
Thank you for your help.
Regards Rod
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Update regarding my Philharmonic Audio Model 3 review. I've owned these speakers for close to 3 years now. They are still one of the best values in audio in my opinion. I've added some "tweaks" that I want to share. First, as I indicated in my original review, spikes really help the sound. Now, however, I've put them on IsoAcoustic IsoL8r speaker bases. Here is a link: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R200Sub The speaker bases isolate the speakers even more which opens the soundstage and solidifies the bass. Second, I took the speaker wire jumpers that connect the top unit with the bass cabinet out of the system and wired them directly. This added transparency especially in the midrange. Finally, I took out the dampening sheet between the top unit/bass cabinet and replaced it with Herbie's IsoCups. All of these "tweaks" are simple and make a great speaker even better!!
Pic of them on the IsoAcoustic IsoL8r speaker bases
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106685)
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These look very interesting. I am curious as to how they perform with different types of music and would like to hear experiences from those who have heard them.i listen to a wide variety. Jazz old and new rock from every era. In particular I was wondering how they do with rock at higher volume. I have a pair of Polk SDA1Cs right now and like the volume that they can produce in standard mode without the sda cable. Never blairing. I have no experience with this new type of midrange and wanted to see how it performs with loud rock. Any experiences that you can share would be appreciated.
Thanks. Dmac
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These look very interesting. I am curious as to how they perform with different types of music and would like to hear experiences from those who have heard them.i listen to a wide variety. Jazz old and new rock from every era. In particular I was wondering how they do with rock at higher volume. I have a pair of Polk SDA1Cs right now and like the volume that they can produce in standard mode without the sda cable. Never blairing. I have no experience with this new type of midrange and wanted to see how it performs with loud rock. Any experiences that you can share would be appreciated.
Thanks. Dmac
Let us keep this topic alive!
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Hi,
Just wondering if there is a problem with supply of the midrange? I heard the company who supplies these closed business. If so what is in the pipeline as an alternative.
Cheers Rod
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Hi,
Just wondering if there is a problem with supply of the midrange? I heard the company who supplies these closed business. If so what is in the pipeline as an alternative.
Cheers Rod
You can go on his website and ask him - but I think he found a stash and so he can still build a few of them.
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Hi,
Just wondering if there is a problem with supply of the midrange? I heard the company who supplies these closed business. If so what is in the pipeline as an alternative.
Cheers Rod
Well- theare are rumors. Hopefully Dennis will respond.
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Well- theare are rumors. Hopefully Dennis will respond.
From the AVSforum
01-24-2016, 02:55 PM
[size=1.5rem]Dennis Murphy (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/members/7826641-dennis-murphy.html)[/size]
AVS Special Member
Quote:
Rumors of the Phil3's demise have been somewhat exaggerated. Although it did look like the new owners of BG Radia were going to shut down sales of planar drivers to 3rd parties, Parts Express has signed a contract with Christie Corp. to sell the Neo 8 and possibly other drivers. They won't be up and running for a month or two, but I will be able to take new orders for Phil 3's.
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These look very interesting. I am curious as to how they perform with different types of music and would like to hear experiences from those who have heard them.i listen to a wide variety. Jazz old and new rock from every era. In particular I was wondering how they do with rock at higher volume. I have a pair of Polk SDA1Cs right now and like the volume that they can produce in standard mode without the sda cable. Never blairing. I have no experience with this new type of midrange and wanted to see how it performs with loud rock. Any experiences that you can share would be appreciated.
Thanks. Dmac
Dmac - Frankly, these are not the best speakers for loud rock. Don't get me wrong, they would sound fine, but I'm guessing they wouldn't hit the SPLs (sound pressure levels) or extreme chest pounding bass you would want. I actually owned the Polk SDA1cs for awhile and the Philharmonics are a much different sounding speaker - I just don't want you to be disappointed. Scott
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I just wanted to add I've recently had a number of "tweaks" in and out of my system. The Phil 3s never failed to reveal the change - no matter how subtle it was - whether it was in the bass, midrange or treble. Its a very well designed speaker - no doubt.