Audeze LCD2

adydula · « **Reply #20 on:** 5 Jul 2011, 01:38 pm »

eclien,

Audeze has made these LCD2's for quite some time now. They had some fallout on several sets due to bad driver material etc...they figured this out, and since have found a new material and developed this new Rev 2 driver.

The Rev 2 driver is being touted by Audeze as 'better and more reliable" than the orignal REV 1 driver that the world went crazy over.

I think human nature being what it is many REV 1 LCD2 owners want the newer better more reliable REV2 driver, many dont want the newer REV2 driver because they fear what the got that they like so much will be gone if they update to a REV2 set of LCD2 drivers.

I think the reason there is a flurry of LCD2s sales is those people that want the newer version of driver....and can afford to sell at a loss the older ones etc.

On the question are people just selling these cans because they are not turned on by them...yes and no.

Some people can afford to do this, many can not, myself included. Before I bought these I did a bunch of reading etc and tried to make an intelligent choice.

I am very content with the LCD2's that I have and am glad I got the REV 2 driver based on the reliablity factor alone, the sound being what it is from my perspective is just plain awesome....if I had learned that my drivers were REV1's I would be going thru all the feelings about upgrading, selling etc like many are going thru now....

Either way, either driver Audeze seems to own up to the issues and has fixed it and will most likely take care of their customers based on their situation etc..

Alex

Kinger · « **Reply #21 on:** 5 Jul 2011, 01:45 pm »

Hey Alex,

I'm curious, does listening to music through these killer cans make you want to listen to your other gear any less or do you find that headphones and speakers have enough of a different presentation that you don't like to just listen to cans exclusively?

AliG · « **Reply #22 on:** 5 Jul 2011, 02:33 pm »

Hi Alex, I have been oozing over this can for a long time.

I just got into headphone 5 months ago. Currently I own a Sennheiser HD650 paired with Meier Stepdance. This Hd650 was touted as the best headphone in the world many years ago when it was first released. But I m a little disappointed with it. And I m not sure if my disappointment is due to my unrealistic expectation on headphone in general or it is the problem with hd650.

Before I got into headphone, I kept reading about people raving about the soundstage they hear on good headphone. I own a Salk HT3 speakers, powered by two Mcintosh MC275, ARC Ref5, ARC CD-7, ARC PH7, VPI Aries and Classic, now the soundstage I got from my speakers setup is very different from what I got out of the HD650 can. Basically, I feel like don't get any soundstage from my headphone at all, I don't feel like the singer is standing right in front of me singing to my face.

My question is, does the LCD2 give the same kind of 3 dimensional soundstage you can get from a properly setup 2- channel speaker system?

thanks

Barry

adydula · « **Reply #23 on:** 5 Jul 2011, 03:34 pm »

Kiiger, Alig...

I guess just being a techie etc, I wanted to see how good can technology really is. Always curious etc...These dont take away from my Salk SongTowers or 2 ch system...its still better in many ways...with the overall realism and presentation of the soundstage and imaging.

I was very surprised how well these cans sound....I can hear details that are hard to hear with speakers, the same thing I discovered by upgrading to the Salks, ie they sound so natural, musical etc and the same thing I found in the low end phones and these...Its a very intimate experience...

On many vocals you here the music coming from the left side or right side, then the vocal in the center comes in and it seems like its in you 'head or brain' like its well just so special...

They dont want me to listen less to my Salks, its just another way to enjoy the music and technology.
Both are wonderful in there own way.

I do tend to listen just with the phones for several days and when I go back to the Salks I say..WOW there is no way that the cans...can do this....

But then again there is no way the speakers can do what the cans...can in their intimate way either.

The 3 dimensional soundstage is good, but not like a good 2 ch setup... its good, tight, cohesive, and very, very accurate and accurate tonal quality...instruments sound more realistic than the speakers....vocals, drums, bass.....I mean DEEP bass way down .....but its not shaking the house just your head!!!

I do find that it all depends on the recording.....but the ability to light sabre in on any recording and hear stuff, even older stuff that you never heard or noticed before is awesome in itself.

In some ways listening to Larry Carlton's Alone But Never Alone the other night was a more special presentation than on speakers....it was WOW this is so muscial and correct and GOOD.

Hope this make some sense!!
All the best
Alex

Let me add this: I have learned that listening to material that is basically meant for reproduction via a normal 2 ch stereo system is what most of the material we have on good olde redbook cd's...so when listening on a set of headphones its very hard to compare but we as humans do so...there is some software that I have discovered that 'transforms' the 2 ch redbook to a simulated speaker experience via a set of headphones and its free...I will play with this in a few days and see what this does good or bad!!

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/473885/isone-pro-the-best-thing-you-could-ever-get-for-your-headphones-on-your-computer

minimus · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 07:42 pm »

I have to say I was a big fan of the LCD-2s for the first six months that I owned them...but I found that I wasn't listening to headphones very much, spending much more time listening to my stereo. When the right driver of my LCD-2s cut out, I had to ship them back to Audeze for repair and started using my JH16s again. I am now listening exclusively to my JH16s, even though I got my LCD-2s back from Audeze a few months ago. My sense is that the LCD-2s are just a little dry over all. Make no mistake, they are great headphones, but they don't grab me as much as they did when I first received them. The bass quality of the JH-16s is not as good as the LCD-2s, but overall I enjoy listening to the JH16s more. The mid-range and treble is just a little more "tubey" and inviting. I also think the LCD-2s weakest point is their imaging/soundstage/headstage. I used to own some AKG K340s and they offered fantastic imaging. (On live recordings, I sometimes could not tell whether background noise was coming from my apartment or from the recording.) That never happens with the LCD-2s, which makes them less appealing than a good stereo system.

eclein · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 08:03 pm »

I think I am going to be looking at the Hifiman HE5 Le- I've seen a bunch of things written about them and they sound like from whats being written that they have the sound I like. We'll see....

adydula · « **Reply #26 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 10:06 pm »

Hello,

The LCD's that I have the latest Rev 2 drivers:

Following is from the Audeze web blog...

"Now we are introducing revision2 of the driver. The LCD-2s as a model remain the same. Newer LCD-2 shipments from middle of June have revision2 of the driver.

Does the sonic signature change ?

Revision 2 transducer has the same mechanical construction as original transducer, but uses newly developed, thinner and more reliable diaphragm material. Overall sound signature remains similar. Low frequencies stay flat, but are tighter and even more extended (flat to 5 Hz), midrange is smoother and more transparent, while high frequencies are more extended, detailed and more pronounced. With Rev.2 we are addressing concerns of many customers who feel that original LCD2 has darker high frequency signature than many top of the line headphones.

While overall sonic signature remains similar, new revision provides substantial improvement in sound quality (this is no hyperbole), sound resolution and especially imaging, which is wider, more stable and 3 dimensional. If you loved the LCD-2 sonic signature, you will like the new one even more."

I have not heard the Rev 1 drivers,mine are Rev2's... but I did have a pair of AKG 702's that had what most phone addicts call fantastic imaging...some even say too much imaging. I however liked them a lot.

It only took three days to sell the 702's in favor of the LCD2's...imaging to me is very good, I often look over my shoulder and think things are in the room behind me, I often yell down to my wife and ask here if she is calling for my attention. It depends on the source material as well to a larger degree. I hear sounds all over the place.

I did not like the sound of them with a SS amp, and went to a tube amp that just seems really nice and warm...but hey again its personal preference.

I have a Lyr on order and am anxious to hear what having 6 watts RMS will add or detract from the LCD2's ability to please me.

The neat thing is there as with speakers are so many choices and opinions...and each of our tastes are different.

Thre are lots of 'experts' and reviewers with awesome gear that have reviewed this these cans to death:

http://audeze.com/lcd-2-review-savyasaachi-k

This one really caught my eye:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=general&m=575027

The first paragraph:

LCD2 REVIEW:
Once in a great while in my 32 years in the hobby I have seen products come to market that can make a significant change in the way the game is played. Rarely if ever does one come to the market that completely changes the game and rewrites the rules such is the case with the LCD2. Audeze is a start up company that has two passionate owners who have somehow managed to bring to market a product which has challenged the majors in a big time way. The LCD2 is a planar headphone that not only competes with the flagship products offered by Sennheiser and Beyer but in many ways easily outpoints them in many of the categories important to many people who really enjoy music. Alex and Sankar have managed to up the ante and have created what I believe will be a benchmark for others to follow.

I never heard these cans before I purchased them. I had to rely on reading hundreds of opinions,good,bad and indifferent...and yes many reviews from industry reviewers we may or may not agree with. $945 to is a lot of money. Getting into headphones even when i have a wonderful 2 ch setup was taken seriously and it probably didnt hurt to have memories of my old Maggies in my head... but with Maggies, where is the bass often comes up....so when you see a set of headphones that are flat down to 5Hz and many, many people stating there is real bass here, strong, articulate and awesome...well.....I just smile alot.

Gosh I dont know how you can say these are a little dry!! OMG they are so sweet....but again I have never heard the JH16's you reference, I will check them out for sure.

All in all I look at the overall performance over a wide variety of material, and the LCD2's have not yet once let me down from the crashing tympani of Fanfare, to Joe Satriani's Rubina, to Eva Cassidy Live at the Blues Alley..

All the best
Alex

adydula · « **Reply #27 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 10:14 pm »

Thought this might be an interesting read:

Now that I know you were comparing an IEM vs full size set of cans..

http://www.headfonia.com/hd800-and-jh16/

Its a nice review and or discussion between the these two types of 'transducers' not LCD's, but another good set of cans...

Alex

eclein · « **Reply #28 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 11:09 pm »

Not sure if that was directed my way about the IEM's but right now I'm checking out all kinds of headphones and having a blast. I have found some seriously great IEM's and others that were lacking in some way in one or more areas. I don't buy anything thats out of reach for me, I've been very selective and found some really nice IEM's two of my favorites were gotten by making trades of some sort.
Now after learning how to mod Grado's I want to check out all the full size cans I can, and see how well I do with picking winners.......I'm having a ball and its been quite some time since I had this much fun with a hobby......No car anymore because I can't drive, so no more JBL's (Yeah right Ed!!!) but I can have stuff sent in and I have some Schiit on the way!!!!!!

adydula · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 03:24 pm »

eclein,

Just wanted to share etc... IEMs are new to me, know they exist but never even thought they could come close to a full sized set of cans. Most comparisons and reviews seem to be with the same full size headsets....IEMS are well, very dfferent in the way they fit etc.

Not saying they arent any good.....the reveiw I posted compares the IEMS mentioned to a full size set of cans...and the comments about the imaging and soundstage etc was interesting considering the comments about the imaging, soundstage observations posted.

Anyway, enjoy!! glad you got some Schiit coming!!

Alex

eclein · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 04:28 pm »

Alex....its Ed, Howdy!!
The plan now is Bifrost, then Hifiman HE5 Le, then Jason at Schiit said I should probably get a Lyr to drive them. So thats the plan!!! IEM's are for my walks/therapy/kicks, This new setup is for some serious headphone melting away experiments...LOL

minimus · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 10:00 pm »

My ancillary equipment is not low-end. I am using the LCD-2s and the JH16s with a Woo 22 balanced headphone amp. The aftermarket cable on the LCD-2s is the top-of-the-line cable from ALO that cost me about $550 or so. I am using a Whiplash Audio balanced cable with the JH16s. Although headphone cables can be a rip-off, I thought both cables offer significant improvement over the stock cables.

Overall, I am not going to claim that the JH16s are "better" than the LCD-2s. I think the measurements of the LCD-2s are almost perfect. But I do find them to be somewhat boring. It could be that I like the "in your head" sound of the JH16s, whereas the LCD-2s sound similar to, but not as good as, my stereo.

Eclein, if you decide to buy IEMs, just realize they tend to have a very low impedance, and so will work best with either a solid state amp or a tube headphone amp with an output transformer and a low impedance setting.

eclein · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 10:18 pm »

minimus- I got a bunch of IEM's- Woodeee, Sleek SA-1, SA-6, UE 700, Shure 210,Sony??......I like the SA-6 but the UE700's are just a bit more dynamic.....I've had a ball with IEM's and a HM-602 for playback.
I have a MP-301MK2, Musical Paradise Tube amp- on my second version....its all good.....

adydula · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 12:28 am »

Ed....cool beans aint this fun just spending money on things most people would think that are just plain crazy!!!

LCD2's "Boring" excuse me, I do not want what it is that you drink!! LOL
These things are FLAT...this means accurate, precise reproduction...but garbage in garbage out...makes u look for GREAT material that is WELL mastered....not compressed, cranked up treble or accuntuated bass...but hey thats probably NOT boring...

Boy I would like to do AB bilnd testing with you, with you not knowing what I was doing to see how much a real difference cables make etc...my God man $550 for a cable!!!

Well I did spend $945 on my LCD2's so who am I to say....its your money...but $550 on a cable!! You know back several years and I mean SEVERAL I used to bring home $1000+ Audioquest speaker cables, Kimber etc do AB testing with listeners that never knew what I was using to find out what they "heard"...I hate to share the results here...it would start a flame war and it is not intended.

But some persons boring may be indeed someones not boring...each to their own...but then there is the truth, but if we new that we would stop spending money on goodies to find something we may already have!!

Gosh I am philospher!!

Lets listen to some music!!

All the best
Alex

minimus · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 06:46 pm »

Eclein, I own Klipsch Image X10 IEMs, which go for $300 or so. The JH16s are much, much better, IME and FWIW. That said, the JH16s are custom IEMs and some people have a hard time getting a proper fit.

The Woo 22 is a balanced headphone amp. I need balanced headphone cables to use it, and those cables aren't cheap. I paid $550 for mine, I could have spent a less, but not much less.

I used to post a fair amount on Head-Fi and even went to the first CanJam in 2006. A few of the people who used to post on Head-Fi (but have stopped once it became the source of so much noise) bought the JH13s or JH16s and then decided to sell off their "top shelf" headphones, including Sony MDR-R10s and Stax Omega's, feeling that the JH IEMs were just about as good. Some of these same folks, who go to CanJam every year, thought the LCD-2s were not at the same level as the R10s or Omegas.

I won't claim that the JH16s are better than the LCD-2s. I have a $35K speaker setup and I think it sounds better in all respects than the LCD-2s. (My source in both my headphone and speaker rig is the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC & Transport... I own two sets.) I will say that the JH16s provide a different experience and so are a better complement to my stereo than the LCD-2s. If I didn't have a good speaker rig, I would probably listen to the LCD-2s more.

eclein · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 06:57 pm »

Well, I went insane and I know its off topic but I just recently ordered some HiFiman- HE 5LE headphones and a Schiit- LYR amp.......I'm really interested in hearing the top of the line stuff--at least for me its top of the line. It should be a ball, I'm sure you guys will hear about it....LOL...sorry I just get into it.

adydula · « **Reply #36 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 05:14 pm »

The Lyr has arrived!!

Listening now for the all of 10 minutes!!

So far so good...will post more after a few hours and exploring and comparing with my SOHAii DIY..

Build so very, very well, nice ceramic sockets...weighs a ton!

SOLID..

Alex

TUBE CHOICE: 6BZ7

eclein · « **Reply #37 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 06:14 pm »

Those are the tubes I have coming with mine..........Alex give us more info when you can.....

adydula · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 07:34 pm »

eclien,

Ok so I have had almost 2 hours of listening to all sorts of stuff.

First impression is I am selling my other amp.

Second impression is the tube choice to me is perfect.

I did a lot of reading as most of us do trying to get the choices down right the first
time. Jason likes these as well as his number one choice in tubes.

The volume control setting with these LCD2's from 8 am to 10 am is more than enough, this amp has endless power for these phones. Be careful...

The LCD2's "come alive" with this amp. Absolutley wonderful soundstage, imaging, dynamic range.

Chris Rea's Road to Hell, is great.
Norah Jones is very very nice.
LeAnn Rimes vocals are phenomenal!!
Joe Satriani's Rubina is freaking awesome..

The detail, punchiness is really nice, well defined, Jennifer Warnes The Hunter cd is excellent.

Linda Ronstandt, Round Midnight double CD with Nelson Riddle...wonderful voice...

6 Watts of power...Class A, it runs hot, not as hot as the ASGARD I had but does a better job with these cans...dont miss it at all.

I got into such a sweet listening mode that I didnt want to take the phones off...Hearing "tonality" of things that are just more alive and noticeable now...sounds of drumsticks hittinf the drum rim, sound of "wood"..no sibilance...hand claps so life-like etc..

I really see NO reason for ME to roll tubes...its perfect...completly content!! and for me that is saying alot!

The tube choice is perfect, absolutely perfect..that good...

Life is good!!

All the best
Alex

eclein · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 07:39 pm »

Somebody else over at head-fi when I asked about Lyr they said "Its a great amp, you did get the GE tubes right??" Yup, they were sending mine out and we caught it, they put two in that were packaged. Great service from such a Schiit company.

Hey Alex why are there a set of RCA outputs on the back, can this be used as a pass through or pre-amp- I didn't see anything about it on the website.