AudioCircle
Industry Circles => ZenWave Audio => Topic started by: DaveC113 on 31 Mar 2015, 07:04 pm
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Hello Audiocircle Members!
I am kicking off the release of ZenWave modified SurgeX power distribution systems with a tour of the SurgeX SX1120 along with ZenWave PL power cables. Here's what's included in the tour:
- ZenWave Modified SurgeX SX 1120 with Furutech GTX(R) receptacles and FI-33(R) IEC Inlet. This SurgeX also features all the standard mods including new/upgraded caps, upgraded internal wiring and connectors.
- ZenWave PL11 Power Cable with 20 amp IEC to go from the wall to the SurgeX
- ZenWave PL11 Power Cable with Furutech FI-50 AC plug and IEC plug. This cable can be used on anything, including amplifiers.
- ZenWave PL14 Power Cable with Neotech UPOCC copper plugs. This cable can be used on any source or preamp and can be compared to the cable with Furutech FI-50 plugs on sources or preamps so you can hear the differences the FI-50 AC plugs make. The gauge of the cable does not make an audible difference on anything but amplifiers.
The tour is open to all AC members, if you have under 100 posts or are here for less than a couple years I may ask for a fully refundable paypal deposit. If you have a lot of posts and have been here for a long time no deposit will be required. This will operate like a standard tour: you will have a week, 2 at the most, to try out the gear in your system, then you will ship to the next person in the tour at your expense. Shipping to the next person will be the only financial obligation, the box will be about 20 lbs and will need to be insured for $3500, which is less than the contents are worth but will cost a bit less than paying for full insurance. Then, it would be great if you can post your impression of the SurgeX and PL power cables in this thread.
This thread is also a great place to post your impressions if you currently own or demo'd the SurgeX or PL power cables in the past.
Here's what you can expect: The SurgeX will isolate your system from surges originating both inside and outside your home, most surges come from inside the home due to electric motors being switched on and off. Lightning within several miles of your home also cause surges. If you have whole-house surge protection the SurgeX is still a good idea to isolate your equipment from surges inside your home, as well as to filter noise as a result of using MOV based whole-house suppressors. The SurgeX does NOT use MOVs and does NOT dump surge energy to ground.
The SurgeX will provide a lower noise floor and a more relaxed presentation, removing harshness and distortion from emi/rfi contamination of the incoming AC power. It provides inrush current limiting so amp turn-on will not flip the breaker or stress your gear. It will shut down your system in the even of over/under voltage conditions. The combination of features is comprehensive and unique in the hifi market.
The SurgeX has been tested in about 20 systems so far with VERY consistent results... it ALWAYS makes an improvement, but the degree of improvement is determined by the quality of your incoming AC power as well as the particular components making up your system. It was used in the Von Schweikert room at the last RMAF, which contributed to a TAS award for best sound. The PL power cables (along with some of my other cables) will be used in a $800k system in the upcoming Munich HiFi show. The SurgeX and PL power cables are not just a good value for the money, they are some of the highest performing pieces of gear you can get at any price.
The PL power cables have been a great success and have not lost a comparison with other power cables... ever (knock on wood! :)). The combination of the Furutech FI-50 plugs with my custom UPOCC copper litz wire results in less noise, more focus and a very neutral, detailed sound. If you have not tried excellent power cables before this will be a revelation! :)
Please post here or send me a PM if you want to be included on the tour. Here's a pic of the tour package:
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/1-SurgeX%20Tour%20Photos%20004_zpssw1yfncb.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/1-SurgeX%20Tour%20Photos%20004_zpssw1yfncb.jpg.html)
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ZenWave Audio LLC refurbished and modified SurgeX SX1120-RT Power Distibution System
Basic Level SX1120-RT
Includes one SurgeX SX1120-RT that has been used and refurbished using new and upgraded electrolytic capacitors from Panasonic and Nichicon. Used units are in good shape but may have minor scratches. A new front panel or re-finishing the entire chassis is optional.
Stock receptacles replaced by 3 (three) Furutech FPX(Cu) duplex receptacles, 1 stock receptacle will be reused. This gives you 6 outlets to plug into with upgraded receptacles and two stock outlets for non-critical applications. Furutech receptacles are mounted more securely vs stock using 3 fasteners per receptacle instead of one.
IEC inlet replaces remote function, standard IEC inlet is a 20 amp Schurter unit.
Internal wire connectors replaced by Furutech FT-210(G), about 16 of these are used!
Internal wire (tinned copper with pvc insulation) is replaced with silver plated copper with teflon insulation.
Footers: Sorbothane hemishperes are provided, experimentation with footers is encouraged as they make a substantial difference.
Power cable is a standard 12 gauge cable with a Schurter 20 amp IEC plug and Furutech FI-15(R) AC plug.
UPGRADES:
Receptacles: Additional FPX(Cu) receptacles are available for $70 each, adding 1 more is possible. You may also substitute a GTX(R) duplex receptacle for a FPX for $150 each, after 3 are substituted additional GTX receptacles are $220 each.
IEC inlet: Shurter may be replaced by Furutech FI-33(R) for $110.
Power Cable: Standard 12g cable may be replaced with ZenWave PL11 with Furutech FI-28 and FI-31 AC and IEC plugs for $800.
ZenWave PL11 Power Cable may be upgraded to Furutech FI-50M(R) and FI-52(R) AC and IEC plugs for an additional $325.
Front panel replaced by custom machined panel with no rack-mount ears, color/finish may be specified. I can make your SurgeX match your other components! Price is $75
Chassis (minus front panel) may be re-finished as well, price upon request
PRICE: Basic Level SurgeX SX1120 as described above is $950. This is close to the same price as a stock unit.
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Awesome work, Dave! I'm sure these will prove to be a fantastic addition to your product line. I know you put a lot of time, energy, and resources into them with GREAT attention to detail.
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Me! Me! Me! :bowdown: <==== [Ignore that phoolish cad!]
Dave,
Seeing as I'm going to audition your RCA ICs and PC anyway, could I be included in this tour? Zip 97330 :thumb:
Michael
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Dave,
I would like to included in the tour
Mike
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Me! Me! Me! :bowdown:
Dave,
Seeing as I'm going to audition your RCA ICs and PC anyway, could I be included in this tour? Zip 97330 :thumb:
Michael
Hi Michael, sure... I think we can arrange that. :D I'm getting some demo cables ready for you now and we can plan on getting the SurgeX to you at the appropriate time. Should I shoot for April 15th?
Dave,
I would like to included in the tour
Mike
Sounds great, Mike. I look forward to hearing your impressions! :)
Awesome work, Dave! I'm sure these will prove to be a fantastic addition to your product line. I know you put a lot of time, energy, and resources into them with GREAT attention to detail.
Thanks Ryan! I hope you'll be making it to Denver soon! :thumb:
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Dave! Love to be on the tour. :green:
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"Hi Michael, sure... I think we can arrange that. :D I'm getting some demo cables ready for you now and we can plan on getting the SurgeX to you at the appropriate time. Should I shoot for April 15th?"
Dave,
Aldcoll's (where is he when he's needed?....probably listening to music again) GTG is looking like it'll be held on April 12th now. Can you get the cables to me by the 10th or 11th? [The 15th will work for me, of course. Aldoll will just have to drive the 15 miles to my house. :wink: ]
Michael
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Yes I felt a burn or twinge there while I was in the car :scratch: :scratch:
I guess I will pipe in: I would love to be associated with mresseguie on the west coast swing. I am looking at cables. We are working on a April 12th get toghter with four impartial jurors of a day of cable tests. I need to look at the options for my new ModWright KWA 150 SE :thumb:
I think we can make something work out. :thumb: :thumb:
I
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Michael and aldcoll, I think what I'll do is send the Power Tour package together with the demo IC cables, then you can send the IC cables back to me and send the Power Tour on it's way.
Right now, rob303 has the Power Tour package. He works 5 minutes from my place so shipping times are pretty quick ;) I'll get the package back on Friday and send it + the IC cables to Michael. which should get there before the 12th with some time to spare.
After that we have ZLS, mdfoy, Chris Adams and jriggy.
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The clouds have parted and the rain has stopped. The Sun is Out!!! But I will stay inside and jam to the music :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Thank you for the chance to hear your cables.
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Wouldn't mind jumpin' in on this at some point... no hurry for me. PM'd ya Dave.
Thanks for this offer!
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Wouldn't mind jumpin' in on this at some point... no hurry for me. PM'd ya Dave.
Thanks for this offer!
Sounds good, you are added! :)
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Dave kindly let me listen to a variety of items. This post addresses two versions of the
SurgeX SX-1120 RT Surge Eliminatior and Power Conditioner.
Version 1) w/“Basic Level” Modifications:
New and upgraded electrolytic capacitors from Panasonic and Nichicon;
3 Furutech FPX(Cu) duplex recepticles; 20 amp Schurter IEC; Furutech FT-210(G) internal wire connectors; Silver plated copper/teflon internal wire; Sorbothane hemishpere footers;
Standard 12 ga. power cable with a Furutech FI-15(R) plug and Schurter 20 amp IEC.
NOTE: I did not use the above PC.
This unit sounded organic and dimensional, and lacked any “whitish” character or embellishment to the upper frequencies. It was detailed and transparent, dynamic and free-flowing, with a large, identifiable acoustic venue. A lot for the money. I was ready to close the deal on it – until I listened to the version with further upgrades.
Version 2) w/Upgrades to the “Basic Level” Modifications:
3 Furutech GTX(R) duplex receptacles; Furutech FI-33(R) 20 amp IEC inlet; PL11 A/C cable with Furutech FI-28 (R) and FI-31 (G) 20 Amp IEC.
NOTE: Since I did not try the above PL-11 until much later in the process, I will comment on it another time.
The best way to describe the sound of this unit is to refer to the narrative for the “Basic Level” Modifications, and add the word “more” to each segment. Further, it seemed a bit smoother, with more extension, clarity and ease at the frequency extremes. Things took a step closer to “real.” Though I bought this unit, I would have been content with the other one.
(Transport) April Music Stello CDT 100 (DAC) Teac UD-501 (Preamp) BAT VK-3i
(Power Amp) Llano Trinity 200 Hybrid (Speakers) Gamut Phi 7
(Cables): (Speaker) Morrow Audio; (Analog-RCA) Artisan Audio Ultimate Dream
(Analog-XLR) Grover Huffman SX (Digital RCA) Darwin Silver Digital
(Power Cords) Triode Wire Labs; Lessloss Original; Wireworld Silver Electra 7; Zenwave PL-11; Furutech Alpha 3/Neotech Rhodium (Power Conditioner) Shunyata Hydra 6 (Older Version) (Accessory) Voodoo 15 to 20 amp AC adapter
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I'd be interested in joining the tour as well, but it would probably be best if I waited until I got my room rearranged, which won't happen for a few weeks, so take your time gents and keep the updates coming!
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I'd be interested in joining the tour as well, but it would probably be best if I waited until I got my room rearranged, which won't happen for a few weeks, so take your time gents and keep the updates coming!
Sounds good! :thumb: I PM'ed you about details...
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Hey guys, sorry for the late reply been on a family vacation for spring break driving up and down the California Coast. I was lucky enough to try out the SurgeX and PL Power Cables from Dave (I may have been one of the first on the list).
I don't know a lot of audiophile types of terms but here are a few thoughts that I wrote Dave about after having it for about a week or a little over that:
Hi Dave, wow I am continuing to be more impressed with this component. I align myself with those people who "think" their system sounds better at night than during the day ... sometimes I think it may be due to just more ambient noise in general, but its pretty quiet around my house during the day especially when the kids are in school.
Today is probably one of the best daytime listening sessions that I have had. To top it off all my kids are home on school holiday, all in their bedrooms gaming on the computers and chatting away with their friends online and with all that going on my dishwasher is running in the other room as well. I had to stop and say WTF, how does this sound so good with all this other stuff going on?
Since the SurgeX and the ZenWave Power Cables are the only change within my system I can only attribute it to providing really clean power and power "bandwidth" in my system (would "bandwidth" even be a correct term for getting enough juice to all the components within a chain?).
Anyways, what I would want to say is that it seems as if I'm just getting more power to everything and it has definitely perked up my system, but made it quieter at the same time and I'm experiencing a level of refinement that I haven't noticed before if that makes any sense?
My baseline for these listening test was a Monster HTS3600 Power Center and my thoughts are that having the ZenWave SurgeX and Power Cables in my system has given me more of everything that I would consider important while listening ... more quieter/blacker backgrounds, more power getting to my components, more micro details in my listening sessions. It has cleaned and perked up my entire system including my HDTV. The changes were subtle (but noticeable) at first, but after having it run in my system for a couple days everything became more apparent that this was an intricate piece in the audio chain.
I see this as a winner and important piece of the gear in the ZenWave lineup.
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Oops pics ... everybody likes pics right? :lol:
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj492/beowulf1966/IMG_1731_zps8bdbfe4c.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj492/beowulf1966/IMG_1721_zpsa274b004.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj492/beowulf1966/IMG_1719_zpsa019582d.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj492/beowulf1966/IMG_1730_zps95d7280a.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj492/beowulf1966/IMG_1733_zpsb86684f5.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj492/beowulf1966/IMG_1726_zpse9b3d626.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj492/beowulf1966/IMG_1753_zps5jduq1oo.jpg)
So what does this last pic have to do with listening? Everything! :lol:
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Great pics but the last one says it best! :thumb:
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Great pics but the last one says it best! :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118838)
But the caps are still on? :lol:
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Thanks for the thorough review and pics beowulf! :thumb:
That Chipotle IPA looks interesting... speaking of drinks I had Cap Rock's pear brandy for dessert last night, wow! Going to be looking for that one at the store... Cap Rock is a local distillery so I'm not sure how wide their distribution is at this point.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118838)
But the caps are still on? :lol:
That was the before picture ... :lol:
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That was the before picture ... :lol:
:thumb:
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Thanks for the thorough review and pics beowulf! :thumb:
That Chipotle IPA looks interesting... speaking of drinks I had Cap Rock's pear brandy for dessert last night, wow! Going to be looking for that one at the store... Cap Rock is a local distillery so I'm not sure how wide their distribution is at this point.
My pleasure Dave, the SurgeX and Cables are definitely worth talking.
Cap Rock's sounds pretty tasty!
All of the beers in the pic are from local micro breweries throughout San Diego county (which has been dubbed the micro-brewery capital of the world ... seriously we have a lot of breweries and it seems like a new one pops up every month). The Aztec Chipotle has got a good smoky flavor with just a hint of heat and hops at the finish. Another favorite is the 3rd from the right which is Belching Beaver's Peanut Butter Milk Stout, absolutely delicious and the last one in the pic is Ballast Point's Indra Kunindra is just about one of the more exotic beers I have tasted with hints of clove, coconut, slight dried fruit notes, mixed in an Indian spice of cumin, cardamom, curry. :thumb:
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Okay the SurgeX has moved 22 miles south. And since I needed to do some cable work I might as well break it all down and oil some wood.
Step 1: Break the seal.
Sterp 2: Employ use of finger loop on glass container
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=119038)
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SNAKES!!!....Those aren't Indian Pythons, are they?
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Okay the SurgeX has moved 22 miles south. And since I needed to do some cable work I might as well break it all down and oil some wood.
Step 1: Break the seal.
Sterp 2: Employ use of finger loop on glass container
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=119038)
Starting off right! Beer and power cables ... this is such a guys thread! :lol:
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Starting off right! Beer and power cables ... this is such a guys thread! :lol:
Yup, looks good! :lol:
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Thought I would let everybody know I am having fun and things are sounding better then before. I am fairly new to my current system and I find this a perfect time to get things lined out. When I got the SurgeX and Power Cables I also snagged a set of Dave's D-4 IC's from mresseguie.
I started out like the picture showed I took all equipment out of it holes and moved it to accommodate the new Amp and Preamp configuration I have moved to from my receiver based setup.
I swapped the SurgeX for my Furman 20 Elite 20PFi
Dave's cables replaced Wywires Juice II Blue Feeding the Gill Alana Preamp and a Audiopath PC-2 Feeding the Modwright KWA 150 SE.
And just to spice it up Dave's D-4 IC is linking the Gill and MW. Speaker Wires are Boulder/Daedalus feeding Daedalus Pan's.
I also spent a fair amount of time routing all cables this time. Nothing is on the floor and nothing is touching or crossing.
That was for me a major undertaking as the wife has set some guidelines that I have to work in. It all stuffed behind a modest TV stand.
Any way how does it sound: I feel the sound is light and nimble and a major part of that was all the cable routing. I did a short test yesterday where I pulled my DIY stands (ain't no pictures gonna happen yet) and made a quick rats nest. and the Mudddddd was back.
I am actually working on Speaker palcement now as the sound stage has changed. Speakers are about 2 ft from the wall and 11 ft apart with a 11-12 listening spot. This is our front room and I need to get back and work with the setup. My wife has some meetings this evening :thumb:
As I prepare to box the SuegeX up in a day or two I will go back and add my cables on or two at a time and see where thing end up.
Right now I need to hit the Growler Station :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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We have the TV right there with the audio equipment. I have in the past plugged into a circuit away from the audio.
So I thought I would do a VISIBLE test. I am using a 6 year old Panasonic Plasma that is connected to Xfinity Cable Digital with the MORN150NR cable box (No X1).
I selected a no HD channel thinking it would show a higher level of improvement and selected a on demand show. I left the cable box on the house power and TV on SurgeX for test 1.
And Presto Yes there is a minor clearing of the picture and some degree of sharpness. Step 2 moved the cable box to the SurgeX and probably a still sharper picture.
For my test video I used the CBS National News from Tuesday evening as Scott Pelley's suit had a plaid that played havoc to us when we watched the news.
And I had my wife with me for the test. And we both could see a improvement :thumb: :thumb:
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Thanks for the report! :thumb:
I had not thought to test the TV picture, I have a 58" Panny Plasma that's probably 4 years old now and DirectTV HiDef DVR, I do plug them into my SurgeX for the protection but have not done an A/B test. One thing to try is to use one of the PL power cables on your TV, there's a good chance that will provide a further improvement.
Good job on the cable routing too. :)
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One thing to try is to use one of the PL power cables on your TV, there's a good chance that will provide a further improvement.
Yep, I made the mistake, I mean decision, to try one of Daves PL11 cables hooked up to my Panny VT60 and saw such clarity and detail with vibrant colors and deep blacks that it was hard to go back to any other power cable so I ordered one just for the TV.
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This is the first test I have come across that YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE :thumb:
There are so many things is this Audio stuff that are subject to one's opinion. But I can HEAR the difference of the Power cables and the SurgeX.
I will be busy Saturday as there is some event at the Vinyl Store :duh:
Sunday I will revert to my old house brand and see where I am at :duh: :scratch:
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The Tour has left Oregon and is headed for Chicago.
I completely enjoyed my time with the SurgeX. And at this time I will mention the one draw back I had and that is the rubber feet on the SurgeX. For reasons beyond me the four feet put a lip lock on the oak shelf while it was at my house for six days.
The feet were actually about half height when I went to remove the unit (there are VERE SOFT) and left a minor mark on the shelf. The mark was removed with with some wiping.
But back to the experience: As I mentioned in a prior post doing the TV test will present a no brainier that there is something good about these products and you can see the difference.
And yes I could hear a improved and broader sound stage. Some of that is the fact that I was using four quality Power Cords instead of my current two.
I finally settled on the PL-11 as my preferred cable for my DAC (Parasound Z Dac). All in all I loved the warmth and synergy I have been looking for.
So Bigger sound stage and what I can only describe as my setup was lite on it feet and ready to go to the dance.
Equiptment
Parasound Z Dac
Gill Alana Preamp
Modwright KWA150SE
Squeezebox Touch w/ Boulder Mods and power ( Surgex and my cable)
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I love those feet. I want some...twelve at least.
I didn't try using the SurgeX for video. I wish I had.
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Thanks for the report aldcoll!
Results from using the SurgeX have been very consistent, with the degree of improvement depending on the quality of the incoming power and the specific system that is plugged into the SurgeX.
The PL11 vs PL14 power cables you used on your DAC sound different mostly because of the plugs... the PL11 has the Furutech FI-50 plugs which are a big step up vs the Neotech plugs. The rhodium plating works very well in conjunction with the damping provided by the stainless steel and carbon fiber housing. These plugs are copied by a couple others so be careful what you buy!
On the feet, I supply the SurgeX with Sorbothane low durometer feet sized to work with the weight of the SurgeX. They almost do too good of a job with damping and I encourage folks to try using other footers as well as they will make a difference! Wood blocks also work well and sound more vibrant while the Sorbothane sounds very quiet and refined... maybe even a touch dark. The Sorbothane also does stick to whatever surface you put it on, but I have not noticed any residue left behind... maybe best to put coasters or something between the feet and shelf if it's a concern. I'd also recommend Herbie's products, either the Tenderfeet or iso-ball setup would work well, I'd go with the iso-balls because you can use different balls to tune the sound to work best with your system.
The SurgeX and PL power cables are on the way to ZLS now!
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Yes, be careful with sorbothane. Here's a quote from Isolate It:
"Raw Sorbothane has a great natural 'Stickiness' but be careful because it does contain 'Plasticizer' which can stain raw wood. The Urethane coating on the other hand does eliminate the natural 'Stickiness' of the Sorbothane but it also offers a protective layer to protect raw wood from being stained by the plasticizer."
Dave, do your sorbo feet have a urethane coating? I think these types of products normally do, but I recall Audioquest selling sorbo feet that apparently didn't have a protective coating, as they supplied little plastic coasters for the feet to sit on. So I guess it is possible that manufacturers produce sorbo feet with and without urethane coating. Just need to know one way or another. :thumb:
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The Sorbothane feet I use are NOT urethane coated as urethane is only available in harder durometers. So yes, be careful with unfinished wood shelving... it should not stain finished wood but using some sort of coaster between the feet and shelf is not a bad idea if there is any concern. If the SurgeX were heavier the higher durometer feet with urethane would be more practical but the SurgeX is not that heavy.
I have used the same feet for my preamp and my own SurgeX for quite a long time now (years) and have placed it on many different surfaces without any issues, so I doubt it'll be a problem but please do use "coasters" of some sort if you wish. Or just get a set of Herbie's iso-ball footers... :)
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I'm a huge fan of Sorbothane from my days in a lab with lasers and vibrating vacuum pumps. It does, however, leave a residue. I've heard that a bit of wax paper or similar treatment between the Sorbothane and shelf, etc. works wonders. I haven't tried it myself, so your mileage may vary.
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Update:
The tour package is moving from ZLS to mdfoy as we speak.
econalan is added to the tour as well, welcome!
And thanks to everyone who has participated thus far. :thumb:
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Thanks Dave. Looking forward to it when the tour makes it my way.
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Don't forget about the SurgeX SEQ.
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xsb, thanks and good point. If you need more than 8 outlets or want the sequential start-up/shut down feature the SEQ is the way to go. It also displays the voltage on the LCD display.
On the tour schedule Chris Adams is up next, mdfoy will be ready to ship after this weekend. Then we have jriggy and econalan.
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I've been listening with the SurgeX and PCs connected to my system for a few days now. I guess the bottom line is I have to buy a bunch of stuff from Dave because I can't just keep everything, I have to send it along to the next ACer. :duh:
Dave was also kind enough to send me a pair of SMSG and SMC speaker cables to try along with another D4 (I own one already). Oy!
SurgeX connected to dedicated 20 amp outlet with supplied PC.
Transport connected to SurgeX with PL 11 FI-50 PC.
DAC connected to SurgeX with inline SMPS.
Pre has passive audio circuit.
Amps connected to SurgeX with Triode Wire Labs 7+ PC.
Each speaker connected to its own dedicated 20 amp outlet with TWL 10+PC.
D4 connects DAC to pre and pre to amps.
SMSG from amps to speakers.
I was hoping I could hear a difference. It was so good, how good was it? Dynamic, clear, taut, open, spacious, no sense of glare, air around voices and instruments, wide and deep stage, and this was before I turned it on!
The SurgeX made a significant difference in my system. The sound with it improved across the board but what came to mind first was a sense of ease. Ah, I can relax and listen to this music. I wasn't sure how much of the difference it would make. I'm in a town of 8500 in Vermont and have a 10k solar PV system. Didn't know how much noise was on my line. And not noise per say because my system was quiet. Not a peep at my listening chair and but a faint whisper with my ear up to the tweets. But with the SurgeX, greater ease and more space, and it wasn't subtle.
What really sold me on the PCs was this. I have a PS Audio PWT feeding a Bottlehead DAC The Bottlehead uses an SMPS, so no upgrade on the PC (they're working on a battery kit). The PWT reads the disc and puts a bit perfect sample in a buffer. When you play the disc the info is sent from the buffer not the disc. So how much can a PC change the sound? A bunch. I have a 10 gauge Furutech PC with Furutech FI-25 G plugs and a Triode Wires Labs 10+. With all of Dave's cables in place as I listed them, the only item I changed was the PC on the PWT. First the Furutech cable, sounds good, then a Triode Wire Labs 10+, even better, then the ZenWave PL 11 with FI-50 plugs. Yikes, better everything! It was no contest. The dynamic contrast and clarity improved so much, I was flabbergasted. Not to mention the total lack of grain.
Someone needs to send around some gear that makes my system sound worse. It's much cheaper that way.
A big thanks to Dave for allowing us to check out his stuff. :thumb:
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I was hoping I could hear a difference. It was so good, how good was it? Dynamic, clear, taut, open, spacious, no sense of glare, air around voices and instruments, wide and deep stage, and this was before I turned it on!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks so much for your report, Chris!
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Really wish I did not have to cancel my turn for this tour. But things must happen in proper order and I have a preamp coming for demo this week... Now moving from an integrated to separates, I have to concentrate on getting my integrated --serving preamp function only right now-- out of the system. I really should settle on that before trying to replace something.
Sorry guys, and I hope my dropping out does not fowl up anyones schedule.
Jason
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No problem, Jason...let me know if you want to get in later! :)
So next up is ACHiPo, then econalan...
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Well look what was waiting for me at the FedEx office tonight...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123416)
Think I may spring for a new box for its trip home--this one's looking pretty rough (or smooth) around the edges!
Inside, paper...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123418)
Aha! Baggies of cords!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123419)
Everything arrived safe and sound. Will give it a serious listen this weekend and post my thoughts.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123420)
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Awesome! Glad it made it, the box looks like it's gone through heck... If you replace the box for me I'll pay for it. :thumb:
I look forward to seeing what you think. :green:
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What is the chance of getting in on this tour now? Would love to hear quality cables and see how much difference they make.
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Sure, you'd be after econalan who is next up, so the tour package would get to you in 2-3 weeks. Glad to have you! :)
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Wow, this is kinda like (fun) work! I've spent about 20 hours over the past 4 days listening and reconfiguring my system to test out the ZenWave power products:
1 Surge-X with a PL11 power cord
1 PL11 with very pretty Furutek carbon fiber Rhodium-plated connectors
1 PL14 with solid and serviceable copper Neotech connectors
I'll jump to the conclusion--while I didn't have any epiphanies, the Surge-x is transparent, and did nothing negative, which given it's protection value, is a good thing. The PL11 power cord did change the sound ever so slightly, which surprised me as a power cord skeptic. Both the power cords and Surge-X could have a bigger positive impact in a different setting. The quality, fit and finish is outstanding, and I love the look of the Furutech carbon fiber connectors.
My system is described here:
System (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;system=2129)
For the test I used my fall-back evaluation music:
1) Bela Fleck Live Art: Improv/Amazing Grace and Shoobee's Doobie (for audience ambience, bass slam and attack, PRAT)
2) The ARC Choir Walk with Me: Shady Green Pastures and Walk With Me (for male and female vocal timbre, air, ambience, and imaging)
3) John Rutter Requiem: Praise Ye the Lord, The Lord is my Light and Salvation, and Out of the Deep (for sibilance, male and female vocal timbre, air, ambience, bass, clarinet, cello, and violin timbre
4) Miles Davis Kind of Blue: So What (for horn timbre, drum kit reality and sibilance, emotion)
I also did some casual listening to some Jethro Tull Aqualung, The Who Quadrophenia, Delirium Poem, etc.
Surge-X: For the test I removed both Richard Grey Power Stations. The Surge-X was plugged into the 20A dedicated circuit via my DIY 9ga silver-plated copper quad hospital outlet. I tried different combinations of amps and subwoofers into both the quad outlet and Surge-X with no audible difference, which tells me the Surge-X provides plenty of juice. I left one amp plugged into the Surge-X for the remainder of the testing. I did not hear any difference between the Surge-X and Richard Grey Power Stations in any of the tests I ran.
PL-11 with Furutech Rhodium connectors: I did seem to hear slightly more detail with this power cord when plugged into my Oppo 105 CD player than with my reference DIY cord, and perhaps a bit less grunge. I didn't hear any difference on my pre-amp compared to its stock cord.
PL-14 with Neotech connectors: I did not hear a difference on either the CD player or pre-amp with this cord.
Thanks to Dave for the opportunity to try out this gear.
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Thanks for giving it a try, I appreciate it. :thumb:
I am glad the SurgeX was at least transparent, even when running amps through it. I'd also guess your power is pretty clean not to notice a more relaxed sound with less noise due to the EMI/RFI filtration, but it's possible the Richard Grey boxes are taking care of that. I know the Grey boxes have a couple of large inductors in there similar to the DIY choke mod discussed here, but not sure what else is in there. The surge elimination is, of course, the big advantage with the SurgeX vs other choices for power distribution and conditioning.
I am glad you got to hear a difference with the power cable, the results of using them with all of your components can add up to a really big difference. The result depends on the system and components of course.
Nice choice of demo material, I've found female vocals to be a great test. Harman did some research on the subject with pink noise coming in #1 and female vocals #2, but it was close. A couple years ago I used part of a live Bela Fleck track, "A Moment So Close", it was telling but didn't go over so well in some rooms. :icon_twisted:
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Awesome! Glad it made it, the box looks like it's gone through heck... If you replace the box for me I'll pay for it. :thumb:
I look forward to seeing what you think. :green:
Dave,
I didn't get a chance to find a new box this weekend, so everything is packed in the original box. It's sturdy, and reinforced with lots of packing tape. I'll try to get an outer box at FedEx tomorrow when I ship it to Econalan.
AC
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Thanks for giving it a try, I appreciate it. :thumb:
I am glad the SurgeX was at least transparent, even when running amps through it. I'd also guess your power is pretty clean not to notice a more relaxed sound with less noise due to the EMI/RFI filtration, but it's possible the Richard Grey boxes are taking care of that. I know the Grey boxes have a couple of large inductors in there similar to the DIY choke mod discussed here, but not sure what else is in there. The surge elimination is, of course, the big advantage with the SurgeX vs other choices for power distribution and conditioning.
I am glad you got to hear a difference with the power cable, the results of using them with all of your components can add up to a really big difference. The result depends on the system and components of course.
Nice choice of demo material, I've found female vocals to be a great test. Harman did some research on the subject with pink noise coming in #1 and female vocals #2, but it was close. A couple years ago I used part of a live Bela Fleck track, "A Moment So Close", it was telling but didn't go over so well in some rooms. :icon_twisted:
Dave,
I really appreciate the opportunity to test these out. If nothing else it makes me feel better about my power! I didn't mention it before, because it wasn't part of the Power Tour, but the biggest change I heard was replacing my Mogami xlr interconnect with a DD pair. Definitely a nice step up.
Regards,
Evan
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Can I request to be added to this tour?
In mid-Atlantic, SE PA, 19363.
Gene
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Can I request to be added to this tour?
In mid-Atlantic, SE PA, 19363.
Gene
Hi Gene, thanks for your interest and consider yourself signed up! :thumb:
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Many thanks to ACHiPo for the getting the package to me safe and sound on Wednesday. I'm out for much of the holiday weekend, but we'll be able to give everything a "test ride" this next week, and will then post my impressions. So if it works okay for scheduling, I'll get the package out to usp1 on Saturday, 7/11.
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Glad the package arrived safely econalan :thumb: I've been gone the last few days too, much needed vacation...
Take your time, I believe usp1 is going to be out of town until the 16th so you can wait a few more days before shipping to him. Or just let me know when you're ready and I can coordinate. Have fun trying out the gear! :green:
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First off, many thanks to Dave for the ZenWave power tour. This was a fun and informative experience. I’m not the best with audiophile vernacular, but I’ll try to effectively convey my impressions. Also, I have limited experience w/ power conditioning/surge protection. Previously, I used a PS Audio Dectet power center. No matter what I plugged into it, however, every component sounded better gong directly into the wall. So currently all components are plugged directly into a Hubbell HBL5362W Cryoed/Cooked Receptacle. My demo period was essentially divided into two phases.
Phase 1, Digital: DAC w/ the PL14 PC plugged in SurgeX,; amp plugged into wall w/ ZenWave PL11 PC. Used the following tracks to compare before and after (no real specific reasons for each track; just nice recordings I thought to evaluate the gear):
Cat Stevens. Hard Headed Woman, Tea for the Tillerman, DSD
Lyn Stanley, Fever, Lost in Romance, DSD
Kenny Burrel, Chittlins Con Carne, 192/24 FLAC
Norah Jones, Don’t Know Why, 192/24 FLAC
Subtle, but still discernable, improvements in my system. Basically, heard “more of the music” w/ added clarity to the instruments.
Phase 2, Analog: sold the DAC earlier this week, so moved to Analog (Dave, I ordered a Sony Hap Z1-ES this week, so I may be talking to you about a power cable). Here I had the amp (w/ the P11) and my VPI SDS (w/ stock cord) plugged into the SurgeX (existing phono stage is battery operated). Used the following tracks from the LPs for demo purposes:
Beck Morning, Don’t Let it Go, Morning Phase
Steven Wilson, Routine, Hand Cannot Erase
Sera una Noche, Malena, 45 RPM, MA Recordings (a sublime recording)
Joni Mitchel, Amelia, Hejira (Asylum/Rhino 180g reissue)
Wow, pretty significant sonic lift here. Again, just felt like I was hearing more and more of the music, w/ even more added clarity. I’m guessing I was hearing what’s often called a lower noise floor w/ maybe the SurgeX working it’s magic by removing some emi/rfi contamination of the incoming AC power? Thing is, I never thought things sounded “bad” before, but putting the SurgeX into the system really gave me new frame of reference to how things could be improved. Just as important, the SurgeX did not, to my ears, limit the amp at all sonically. As noted above, sonics only improved. Off to ups1 when I get the notice. Thanks again!
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Hi Alan, thanks for your detailed write-up, I appreciate it! :thumb:
Your review is exactly what I've come to expect. I totally get what you mean when you hear an improvement that you didn't think could be improved. Power is often like that, the power conditioning gets rid of slight noise/haze that didn't seem recognizable before, and this makes the sound more relaxed as there is less noise/harshness, which causes fatigue and tension in the listener. It also provides better clarity so you can hear more of the music, more resolution and detail connects you to the music to a greater degree.
There are also benefits to plugging your entire system into the power conditioner wrt grounding and associated noise, see the sticky on power for details. Having a power conditioner that doesn't muzzle your amp(s) is a big benefit!
All in all, there are other products that do a reasonable job with power conditioning but none have the SurgeX's patented series surge elimination technology and very few use the quality of parts I do, none for the same money. The upgraded SurgeX units are really the deal of the century for power conditioning/distribution.
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Thanks for the follow-up, Dave. Power tour is on its way to usp1.
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Dave,
I know you have a lot on your plate, but have you started working a little on your future speaker?
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Dave,
I know you have a lot on your plate, but have you started working a little on your future speaker?
Yes! I have a prototype for the mid/high driver arrangement that has been done for a while now and plans to get a test box for the woofers done very soon. I have several woofers to test and choose from, then I will come up with a final design for the enclosure. Right now I plan on having an active version with dsp/driver correction/eq available and a passive version with 1st order crossovers for the purists. Right now the sound I am getting is fantastic, I can't wait to finish the woofer selection and get the prototype done! :green:
The speaker will have a large waveguide/horn and I am working on having a composite mold made for it. These days composites have all sorts of different properties, some of which will work very well for this purpose. There are epoxies with visco-elastic properties and fibers such as basalt rock fiber that will have better damping properties vs carbon fiber. It's likely it'll end up a mix of basalt and carbon fiber with several layers arranged to form a constrained layer damping system. This will be a very high tech waveguide but the truth is in a speaker like this the material the horn/guide is made of is very important. I was going to use turned wood and have considered stacked ply... but there are some serious drawbacks to going that route. The composite mold is expensive but not as expensive as turned wood or stacked ply after a certain volume has been achieved. The composite horn is also likely to sound more neutral than wood, which does add some of it's own sound when used for audio. It's a nice sound but I prefer no sound character at all if I can achieve it. The composite mold also allows/encourages me to lower the price so I can move more volume, which is good for everybody. :D
I'll have more details and maybe start a thread on it when the prototype is complete. I plan on hiring some help so I don't get swamped during the holidays, last season I was not able to work on the design for months because I had a lot of orders to fill. This is a good thing for sure, but I had no time to work on the speaker.
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Dave,
Please launch your speaker thread now. It could take a year or more to finish your speaker. It would be great to see you document with words and pictures each step of the process of building the speaker. To make a speaker you are proud of, I am sure there will be ups and downs as you go thru the process. Dave you make cables that people want to buy because you are so good at it for the price and quality. Are you sure you want to enter the arena of speakers? A big undertaking to be sure. High risk high reward? Will your speakers be the same philosophy as your cables? I can't wait to see your speaker thread. Best of luck Dave.
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I received the SurgeX and the three power cables. I am hoping to get some quality time this weekend to listen to them.
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xsb, I appreciate the interest but the speaker will have to be judged on the result. It's fairly unique and there's too much I don't want to share publicly. I can say it's a constant directivity design starting under 400 Hz with omni low frequencies. The polars look awesome. The goal is to combine the cohesiveness of a small full-range point source with the dynamics of a large speaker. Clarity, resolution, speed and soundstaging are also strong points. Especially soundstaging, it's the best I've ever experienced which points to a lot of good things going on. I will make sure I post a preview once the design is finalized. :D
usp1, good to hear the gear arrived safely, I look forward to see what you think! :thumb:
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The polars look awesome.
Post them.
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Post them.
Lol, let's wait until they are ready to go, I don't want to post info that may change slightly later... I will wait and measure the final prototype. I do appreciate the interest though! :)
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Lol, let's wait until they are ready to go, I don't want to post info that may change slightly later... I will wait and measure the final prototype. I do appreciate the interest though! :)
What software are you using for the Polar Plots? Where are they being done? Obviously it's not trivial.
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What software are you using for the Polar Plots? Where are they being done? Obviously it's not trivial.
It's not up for discussion right now. Let get back on topic please. Thanks! :)
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Here's a pic of the SurgeX SEQ with an updated faceplate, fingerprints are gratis :wink:. I can customize it fairly easily... make it in any color you want, engrave your name on it, etc...
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/1-SurgeX%20SEQ%20005_zpsrd6qobql.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/1-SurgeX%20SEQ%20005_zpsrd6qobql.jpg.html)
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I just finished my stint with the goodies that Dave was so kind enough to share. Thank you so much for doing this Dave! The cords look very nice and are very flexible!
My system consists of a Marantz SA8004 CDP feeding via digital coax to a Benchmark DacPre and into a McCormack DNA2 dlx which drives Gallo Reference 3.1s. All interconnects are OCC copper. For this test, I used the following CDs: Chesky Jazz Sampler 2; Jennifer Warnes The Hunter; Regina Spektor Begin to Hope and Dire Straits Brother in Arms.
My first experiment was to replace the amp power cord (currently a Acoustic Zen Tsunami) with the PL11 cord. Since this was my first experience with higher priced power cords I was expecting to be wowed but I could perceive no difference. I switched between the AZ, the ZenWave and a Pangea AC9SE cord but I could hear no difference. (Keep in mind that this may be due to the limits of resolution of my system or my ears) In a way I was relieved that I could not hear any difference as I was dreading the upgrade cycle.
For my next experiment, I had to reconfigure my system a little bit. In my current system, the amp is powered directly from the wall from one outlet and the rest of the system is powered through an APC S15 power conditioner/backup. Putting the amp on the APC makes it sound dull and lackluster. Because of this there is a very faint hum that I can hear if I put my ear close to the tweeter. Also. when I power up the system the inrush of current to the amp causes the APC backup to come on for the first 30 seconds or so. I reconfigure my stem to run from the SurgeX. Now the amp and preamp were on the SurgeX but I left the Marantz on the APC. Several immediate and noticeable changes. The APC backup did not come on so no whoosh at the beginning. Second, the tweeter was dead quiet - no hum of any kind. And lastly, the harder bits to describe. Perhaps because of the lower noise floor everything seemed to be a little bit better. I could hear more tiny details in the music and the sound stage seemed to be more layered.
As a third experiment, I went back and tried using the AZ and Pangea cable with the SurgeX instead of Dave's cables. Once again I could not discern a difference.
So, in summary, the SurgeX was a very positive addition in my system. And although I could not hear any improvement when I added the power cords, I did not detect anything negative either. Also, the cords look pretty cool!
Thanks again Dave for giving me this opportunity to try out your power cord. The tour now continues to Ron in AZ.
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usp1, thanks for the report, I appreciate it!
I'm glad to hear the SurgeX made a positive difference in your system. I'm surprised differences in power cables don't seem to be audible, but I guess it's one less thing to worry about. :green:
On the SurgeX, I'm sure a lot of the benefit comes from being able to plug everything in to one power distribution point. For the reason check out my sticky post on the subject, it points out why this is the case. Lowering the noise floor makes for better clarity and resolution, so I feel it's very important. Using the system I detail in the sticky post and building my own amp and preamp keeping this info in mind has resulted in a system with no noise even with your ear right up against the drivers in a 95 dB efficient system.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128309.0
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I wasn't on the tour, but I do have a super quick review of a SurgeX that Dave modded for me.
I have great power conditioning (UberBuss), but no surge protection. Since my locality has frequent brownouts and such, I needed to address this issue. However, I was very reluctant to introduce another component, especially one that would negatively impact the sound. After speaking with Dave, he suggested that I grab a used SurgeX off ebay and he would mod it for me. OK, I did that, and Dave offered several options for mods. At first, I didn't want to spend a lot of money to mod a "cheap," used surge protector, but after my experiences with the Furutech GTX receptacles, I realized that if I want to "do no harm," I need to outfit the SurgeX with some really high quality materials. The first thing was to replace the single receptacle unit with a GTX-Gold that I happen to have lying around. Dave replaced the power cord, IEC, and caps. Once I got it back, I plugged it up, let it burn in for a few hours, and sat down to listen. I was stunned by the fact that not only did the SurgeX not do any harm, but it actually made my system sound significantly better! I wasn't expecting a cleaner sound, more detail retrieval, more realism, etc. Sure, it cost a bit more than I budgeted, but once I plugged it in, the cost didn't matter.
If you need surge protection, I would wholeheartedly recommend that you chat with Dave to work out a SurgeX solution.
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Thanks for the report, Early B.!
I am happy to be able to offer a power conditioning and surge elimination solution that does not have a negative effect on the sound of every system it has been used in so far, including the VSA room at RMAF 2014 that won best sound of show in the cost-no-object category by TAS. In this room it made a massive improvement that contributed to winning this award. In other systems, and in a typical installation, the results won't be so dramatic because the incoming power is far better than at an audio show, but it almost always makes for a more relaxed and easy to listen to presentation.