[bigjppop]

So I've been the proud owner of a pair of Omega 3i's for almost a year now and unfortunately do to a big move from Japan to Germany and lots of time on the road for work I have had very little time to enjoy them.  We've finally gotten settled in a house and I actually have a little room of my own to make into a listening room.  As such, I've had some time to spend with these fun little speakers.

So what do I think?  They grow on me more and more everyday.  At first I wasn't sure.  Everyone says they need lots of break in and admittedly, even after a year mine only have about 20 hrs on them, so I'm still reserving final judgement.  The speakers have very definite limitations but I'm deciding that what they do well, I really like.  I have 3 or 4 different tube amps that I'm using to drive these guys, everything from 4 watt SET to 35 watt PP and I think these speakers are a good match to all of them.  Midrange, and especially vocals, are great with this setup and I think that's what I love them for.  My issues, and something I will have to address, are in the lower regions.

Now I admit, these are tiny speakers; beautiful, but tiny.  You can only expect so much bass.  In my room, response drops off VERY fast and sharp at around 50 hz.  Now, many will say that there really isn't that much music below 50 hz, but I would have to respectfully disagree.  I listen to mostly "smaller" acoustic music and guitars, pianos, stringed instruments, etc all produce a LOT of information below what these speakers can reproduce.  Maybe their fundamental frequencies aren't that low, but there are a lot of lower harmonics that I REALLY miss.  Do I miss them enough to get rid of these speakers?  No, I just will have to find a way to fill them out.

An obvious choice would be some Omega subs, but unfortunately I think they're a little pricey especially since I would love to get two.  I think most of Louis' gear is a great value, but I think the subs are just a little much.  No offense Louis, everyone's got to make a living and you're entitled  to charge what the market will bare.  I'm interested to see what shakes out with the new HB line as I seem to recall mention of some subs there as well.  Depending on the economics of it all, I might end up just buying some of Louis' larger speakers, but I really hate to give up what my little 3i's do so well.

Anyway, long story short, REALLY like the speakers and am enjoying them so far.  I highly recommend them with the slight caveat that their isn't much at the bottom, at least in my room.  I'm excited to spend some more time with them and see how things develop but alas, time in the coming year will be limited.  Uncle Sam is sending me on an all expenses paid trip to an exotic desert land for most of next year.  When I get back, its on!

Take care and happy holidays!

[ZLS]

    Based on personal experience, the Omega 4 1/2" Drivers take a long time to break in.  Once they do, the amount of bass that can put out is pretty amazing. 
    Perhaps though, you may want to speak to Louis about the Hoyt-Bedford Monitor Speaker. 
It does utilize an 8" Driver, which by the very laws of physics will produce more bass output. 
     I currently have a pair of Omega Sticks (utilizing a 4 1/2" Driver), and in conversations with Louis, he has suggested that I would like the Hoyt-Bedford Monitor. 
    Louis is very enthusiastic about the Hoyt-Bedford line, and considering the wonderful speakers that he has made before. that is saying something. 

[bigjppop]

I am very interested in the Hoyt-Bedford line and can't wait to see some more info.  I think Louis mentioned elsewhere that he expects to have some things coming out in Jan. 

[Louis O]

Hi bigjppop,

Many thanks for your post and impressions with the 3i.

they are the smallest speakers using the 4.5" driver and bass is good for the size. I do agree with ZLS about break in. They do get fuller with a lot more time on them. It does sound that you are looking for some very good deep bass and I do have good news about this. The Hoyt line will have a subwoofer as part of the line up and the the prices will be lower.

I'm working on a similar bass driver for it and a new cabinet.

The new line is ready and I'm looking to have the new website up in January.

I will post more about the line on the Hoyt board.

Thanks again,
Louis

[bigjppop]

So today I finally broke down and hauled my Omegas from my listening room upstairs down into my man cave/HT in the basement.  I set them up on their stands, wired them up to my normal SET amp and right off the bat... they sound better.  Room acoustics make a BIG difference.  I'm giving up the upstairs room and consolidating all my gear downstairs.  That gives me a chance to work on room treatments/etc in only one room instead of two.

After listening for a while I decided to wire up my HT sub to my Omegas just to see what would happen.  I've got a little HSU sub in the theater and  my only way to wire it was straight off the binding posts on my amp.  So I'm running two sets of speaker cables off of one set of binding posts, one set to the Omegas and one set to the Sub.  Long story short, WAY better!  I took some measurements of the Omegas with test tones and the 3i really falls off a cliff at 50 Hz; in my room, output goes WAY down.  With the sub there, it's awesome!  At least to my ears, in my room, for the music I listen to, and in my opinion... (lots of caveats) for the smaller Omega speakers a sub is required.  I haven't heard the bigger ones, so I can't comment there.

All in all, much happier with things now.  The Omegas do there job very well, but anything below 50 Hz is just asking for too much.  Now its just a matter of tweaking the setup/electronics/room treatment aspects and everything should be great. 

[Louis O]

Hi bigjppop,

Great update and rooms make a huge difference. The setup is critical.
The 3i are small so physics takes its toll too. The sub sounds like it's filling in very well. The hookup is the way I would do it too. I like the high level setup.

The one thing that I try to stress in regards to the 4.5" driver is patience. Believe me I wish they didn't take so long to run in, but this is the case.
What they can do is amazing to me. The speed and the accuracy.

Thanks again,
Louis

[Canada Rob]

The Super 3i is able to produce satisfying bass without a sub, given the right source, amp and room setup.  These speakers are very revealing of what is upline from them.  I run mine on a 2 watt Decware SET with incredible results, but the bass could go a bit deeper for playing in a room environment with the little SET.  On the desktop though, the bass is more present and as a desktop speaker it is my absolute favourite. 

The best room system setup without sub was when I had them in an 11 x 13 x 8 high room on the long wall with my listening chair almost touching the opposite wall (which had curtains).  The amp was the 50 w/ch Audio Sector Integrated with Audio Sector NOS non filtered DAC with DNM interconnect and speaker cable.  I was hearing bass notes way below 50 hertz, not to mention the whole system disappeared in the 3D soundstage.  Very satisfying and lightning fast.

Concerning the comment that Omega subs are "a little much" cost wise, I have to disagree.  I would say Omega subs sell for about half to two thirds of the cost of subs bought through "normal" channels with their levels of distribution.  Good music subs are rare compared to HT subs and are usually costlier.  Louis' subs are made in America with American made hemp cone drivers, with choice of veneer finish (not vinyl).  It integrates so well with the main speakers that the only way you can tell it is playing in the system is to turn off the sub, then you will know.  As with all his products, an absolute bargain IMO.

Rob

[bigjppop]

The Super 3i is able to produce satisfying bass without a sub, given the right source, amp and room setup.  These speakers are very revealing of what is upline from them.  I run mine on a 2 watt Decware SET with incredible results, but the bass could go a bit deeper for playing in a room environment with the little SET.  On the desktop though, the bass is more present and as a desktop speaker it is my absolute favourite. 

The best room system setup without sub was when I had them in an 11 x 13 x 8 high room on the long wall with my listening chair almost touching the opposite wall (which had curtains).  The amp was the 50 w/ch Audio Sector Integrated with Audio Sector NOS non filtered DAC with DNM interconnect and speaker cable.  I was hearing bass notes way below 50 hertz, not to mention the whole system disappeared in the 3D soundstage.  Very satisfying and lightning fast.

Concerning the comment that Omega subs are "a little much" cost wise, I have to disagree.  I would say Omega subs sell for about half to two thirds of the cost of subs bought through "normal" channels with their levels of distribution.  Good music subs are rare compared to HT subs and are usually costlier.  Louis' subs are made in America with American made hemp cone drivers, with choice of veneer finish (not vinyl).  It integrates so well with the main speakers that the only way you can tell it is playing in the system is to turn off the sub, then you will know.  As with all his products, an absolute bargain IMO.

Rob

I think "satisfying bass" will always be in the ear of the beholder so I'm definitely not arguing the point here.  I'm just saying that in my room, with my gear, I get little to no output below 50 Hz as confirmed by test tones (and that is running a SET with MASSIVELY overbuilt output transformers.  I also believe the Super 5 monitors currently listed on Louis' website (the closest thing he currently sells to the 3i) are spec'ed at 48 Hz.  Great speakers for what they do and I really like them.

As for sub costs... well I guess the only way it really costs "too much" is if Louis can't sell them for what he's asking.  If he can sell them, then they don't cost too much.  I've never heard one, maybe someday I'll get the chance; until then, I'm really looking forward to learning more about the Hoyt-Bedford line.

Enjoy your Omegas!

[Jampot]

Keep the faith bigjppop,

I have 3s and 3xps and a small Omega sub.

Can't be beat with suitable source and amps (IMHO of course)

Jim

[sluntz]

I have Omega 3Rs with Sapele cabinets.  I think it's around 5 years now.  For a while I alternated restlessly back and forth between them and some very early Merlin floorstanders.  Eventually I preferred the detail and the appearance of the Omega's.  We have a very small living room, and the Omegas fit better in scale.

I did upgrade to hemp drivers as soon as I could.  What a shock! 150 hours before I could begin to tolerate them.  I just turned them on down in the basement and covered them with blankets.  They improved through 300 hours, then I kind of lost interest in perfecting my audio system.  My wife and I listen daily, mostly to old time/bluegrass music now.

The Omegas are inoffensive as long as I don't try to push the volume too much.  Their real strengths--detail, imaging, coherence--I pretty much take for granted.  We use a large HSU sub.  It blends seamlessly, probably because I don't try to dial in much reinforcement and I keep the crossover pretty high.   The real weakness is that I can't make them sound large, can't create a cavernous soundspace.  It's just a modest little music scene happening down at the north end of the living room.  Voices are way too harsh if I turn them up to concert hall levels.  By now we know within a whisker of just how loud we can go.  And it's loud enough to keep us plenty happy  exploring music.

I was a little disappointed with the way the alnico replacement driver announcements were done.  A couple of years ago the system was actually a high enough priority to spend a fair sum on new speakers.  Instead of getting some Adagios or the like,  I decided to wait for the alnicos, and the moment to upgrade passed.  I suppose I'll still buy some if they are released, but it seems like a classic case of holding loyal clients with vaporware.  I don't think that was Louis' intent, though.

On the whole, the Omegas have brought a lot more to my music life than I anticipated when I bought them.  In some way they have helped teach me how to live in a  small house.

[DaveC113]

I think "satisfying bass" will always be in the ear of the beholder so I'm definitely not arguing the point here.  I'm just saying that in my room, with my gear, I get little to no output below 50 Hz as confirmed by test tones (and that is running a SET with MASSIVELY overbuilt output transformers.  I also believe the Super 5 monitors currently listed on Louis' website (the closest thing he currently sells to the 3i) are spec'ed at 48 Hz.  Great speakers for what they do and I really like them.

As for sub costs... well I guess the only way it really costs "too much" is if Louis can't sell them for what he's asking.  If he can sell them, then they don't cost too much.  I've never heard one, maybe someday I'll get the chance; until then, I'm really looking forward to learning more about the Hoyt-Bedford line.

Enjoy your Omegas!

Hi bigj,

I'm still running my 4.5" xrs with my simple se amp. I don't think I'll bother to change anything unless I move to a larger space or win the lottery, the Omegas are great nearfield and get loud enough for me. I could see changing out to the 6" Alnico maybe, but I have been waiting for the 4.5 Alnicos and was going to switch out drivers if they ever get finished. I totally agree about the sub, I use an old 10" Adire Audio sealed sub, crossed over around 60 Hz with a 24 dB/Oct slope. It blends is really well, I think as long as you have a fast accurate sub you can get good results augmenting the low end.

Loius, sounds like you'd have a market for the 4.5 alnicos 

[Louis O]

Hi Dave,

Many thanks and a big story about the alnico 4.5. Need to explain the situation.
It's a process and will post about it.

I will say that I never took an order or God forbid a pre-order for any product.

I will never take money for a speaker or part that I don't physically have. Just not right.

Thanks,
Louis

[bigjppop]

Hi bigj,

I'm still running my 4.5" xrs with my simple se amp. I don't think I'll bother to change anything unless I move to a larger space or win the lottery, the Omegas are great nearfield and get loud enough for me. I could see changing out to the 6" Alnico maybe, but I have been waiting for the 4.5 Alnicos and was going to switch out drivers if they ever get finished. I totally agree about the sub, I use an old 10" Adire Audio sealed sub, crossed over around 60 Hz with a 24 dB/Oct slope. It blends is really well, I think as long as you have a fast accurate sub you can get good results augmenting the low end.

Loius, sounds like you'd have a market for the 4.5 alnicos 

It will be interesting to see what shakes out with the 4.5 Alnico.  My next upgrade is the inclusion of a miniDSP so that I can integrate a pair of small subs.  I'm planning on a DIY tapped horn based on the Anarchy driver (there's some threads going over at avsforum on these subs).  This should allow me to run my Omegas off of my Tubelab Simple SE from probably 60 Hz up and then run the pair of subs below that on a solid state amp.  My listening room is fairly small and I do listen in a near field setup so I think this should be pretty interesting.  Those subs are supposed to be very flat from 29-100 Hz which I think should make them a perfect match to the Omegas.  This will be a music only system so the 29 Hz lower limit should be perfect.  The miniDSP is something I had never heard of, but after reading more about it I'm pretty excited to try it out.

[DaveC113]

Hi Louis, I look forward to the 4.5" Alnicos but am in no big hurry. I know they will be worth it when you get them done.

bigj, keep us updated on your sub, the setup sounds very interesting... 

[Louis O]

Hi Dave,

Working hard on a lot of projects. The new Hoyt line is setting up well and I have the path all done with future drivers.

I will have a custom shop with this line too. The Omega Line will be tweaked in the upcoming future too.

Very happy with the way it's all turning out.

I have some Guitar projects line up too.

Thanks,
Louis

[JLM]

Extended range drivers take hundreds of hours to break in.

All audiophiles should have access to a spl meter and test tones as most frankly don't know what frequencies they really listen to (or at what spls).

But I agree, bass is foundational, not optional for serious listening.  And I can't expect anything less than an 8 inch driver to produce the full musical range (sans giant pipe organ).

And yes, the room and amp both impact how much bass you can get from a given speaker.  Tube amps traditional are known for exagerated bass.  OTOH I just upgraded to larger solid state monoblocks that make my speakers sound like there's a sub (properly tuned to only be noticed when needed) in the system.

Louis, I love ya, I really do, but wish you'd never mentioned a 4.5 inch AlNiCo driver because I'm very, very tired of the wait.

[Louis O]

Hi JLM,

Thanks and the concept is great, but very difficult right now. I will say that the cost of this driver is tremendous and now I'm being hit for minimums like 5000 pieces a year. I've been trying like mad to get the driver costs to a reasonable level and still working on this. Now with Hoyt Bedford I have 7 proprietary drivers.

Thank again,
Louis

[bigjppop]

So I'm back with an update. It's been a while, but I've made lots of changes and thought I would update my fellow Omega users.

First, I've come to terms with some things... I've decided to stop asking my little 3i setup to do what it's not so good at doing and let it shine at what it is good at doing. In my system, that meant a new preamp, the Emotiva USP-1. My main reason for switching from my Bottlehead tubed pre... Better bass management tools. I am now cutting the Omegas off at about 50 hz and letting my Hsu sub come in at around 60 hz. I'm sure I'll end up tweaking the numbers, but right off the bat with these initial settings the Omegas are really shining. In my opinion and in my setup, removing the strain placed on those little 4.5" drivers by low bass has really made them sing.

I've also fiddled with my speaker placement and have decided that the Omegas are awesome nearfield. I've got them about three feet from the front and side walls, probably five feet between them, and five feet from me (equilateral triangle). I pushed them back closer to the walls and separated them a few meet to maintain the triangle, didn't like it at all. My room is pretty small, and I really like them in here.

I've still probably got less than 50 hrs on them, but I'm working my way through the break-in period. It's taken me two years to get to the 50 hr point so it this rate I should have them fully broken in in... 2014.

Wish me luck!