[Guy 13]

Guy, try taking out the foam discs (reversible "mod")

Hi JohnR.
Is this that foam you suggest that I take out?



If that's the foam you are talking about, I ran upstairs in my listening room
and took them out and did a short listening of a few different type of music
and guess what?
No big difference or improvement, however, I did hear a small improvement,
not much, but if I could hear it, that means there is an improvement.
I will do some more (Serious) listening and report my findings later on.
The down side of this suggestion of yours is that the transducer membrane is exposed to everything that is in suspension in the polluted and especially dusty Vietnamese air.



When I wear them no problem and when they are resting on the stand,
again no problem, so...
No problem.



Thanks for the suggestion, even if it's still not 100% of what I want,
it's still better.

Guy 13
 

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
I did some more (Serious) listening with my HD-650 less the foam and
I must say that the sound did improve, but not as much as I would like.
The HD-650 are still not up to my earing standard, they don't make me 100% happy, only maybe 75%.
Well, for now, I will live with 75%.

Guy 13

[FullRangeMan]

Hi all.
I did some more (Serious) listening with my HD-650 less the foam and
I must say that the sound did improve, but not as much as I would like.
The HD-650 are still not up to my earing standard, they don't make me 100% happy, only maybe 75%.
Well, for now, I will live with 75%.

Guy 13

The HD650 are a great headphone even today, but not at these current prices $499 at Amazon.

Its price/SQ return are very low, a more realistic price would be $150.
I sure Guy would be happy if he had pay just $150 for his phones.
$150 is too low?? not at all if you consider the HD650's narrow soundstage.

[Guy 13]

The HD650 are a great headphone even today, but not at these current prices $499 at Amazon.

Its price/SQ return are very low, a more realistic price would be $150.
I sure Guy would be happy if he had pay just $150 for his phones.
$150 is too low?? not at all if you consider the HD650's narrow soundstage.

Hi FULLRANGEMAN.
I paid for my HD-650 a promotional price of 410 USD.
Not bad...
If I had paid 150 USD for them, I still would not be happy with them.
As far as sound stage goes, I think 99% of all the headphones
have a very narrow sound stage,
because of their drivers being parallel to the ears.
I am trying to get an appointment for a listening session for the
HiFiMan HE-400,
just to compare the sound of the HD-650 vs HE-400.
If I want to buy a pair of HE-400 or any other headphones,
I would have to sell my HD-650 to finance the purchase of the new pair
of headphones and then,
I would have to rob a bank to get extra money to buy a matching
headphone amplifier to drive them,
unless they are not low impedance orthos.

Guy 13

[dB Cooper]

You can forget your Bottlehead OTL amp for anything low impedance. The electrical characteristics of an OTL tube amp drastically limit the loads it can drive with remotely acceptable performance. Even the 300 ohm load of the Sennheisers is borderline for it; the 600 ohm Beyers would be better. Some of the effects of the high output impedance are very significant; download this paper if you want to see what the effects are. And remember their test conditions compare a low impedance amp to 30 ohms output impedance; the output impedance of the Crack is four times as high.

I think I'll swear off participating in any further discussions of the SQ of the HD650. Most of the opinions I see seem to be based more on what people read somewhere rather than on extended listening experience; some even start out with "I read on wtf dot com that the HD650s are dark/veiled etc etc". Some of the strongest opinions seem to be held by people who have spent very little time (in some cases, none) listening to them. If you look at the user reviews on any of the sites that sell them, they have a very high satisfaction rate without exception. If they don't float your boat, there are plenty of other options (unless you have an OTL tube amp with 120 ohm output impedance...)

[Guy 13]

Hi dB Cooper.
Quote: You can forget your Bottlehead OTL amp for anything low impedance
Unquote.
I know/knew that.
When I decided to buy my Bottlehead Crack it was for the Sennheiser HD-650,
Nothing else. If I tried my Sennheiser HD-570 (60 Ohms) on the Crack, it was only by curiosity and as I was expecting, it did not sound good, not bad, but not good, well, compared to the HD-650, especially in the bass department.
The way you write your post, make me think that I did not know that the Crack could not drive low impedance headphones, well, I knew that.
I don’t have an iQ of 140, but I am not completely new in that field.
Anyway, it’s O.K. to mention it anyway.
I would have been better if I did listen to it more than just a few minutes at last year Saigon HiEnd Show, but on planet Vietnam, it’s not the same as in the United States of America.
I said to myself, that I will never rely again on reviewers or owners to base my purchase decision on a product. Audio and sound is something personal, even if a product is liked by thousand of peoples, there is no guarantee that you will like it.
I think I could call myself a marginal man.
Now, the fact is that I have in my listening room a Crack and a HD-650 that their paid for and I have a very limited budget, (You cannot imagine how little income I have…) therefore I am stuck with that combo, unless I can sell it the price I paid for and that will not happen, especially here on planet Vietnam.
What is available and what would make me happy is way above what I can afford.
Anyway, I am happy with my Decware/Omega combo and I can play it as loud as I like, because my listening room is like a bank safe, not sound goes out.

Guy 13

[FullRangeMan]

Guy,
I run the HE400 with a PC output with great results, very musical on YT and web radio.

I think the David Mahler review are reliable, others may not have the same credibility.

[dB Cooper]

Guy,
Seriously, no disrespect intended. Not everything is everybody's cup of tea.
If you have access to anything Beyer, the current line is definitely more "forward" than the 650, and the 600 ohm versions should mate well with the Crack. Not too many high impedance headphones around these days; Senn and Beyer seem to be about the only ones left afaik.

[Guy 13]

Guy,
Seriously, no disrespect intended. Not everything is everybody's cup of tea.
If you have access to anything Beyer, the current line is definitely more "forward" than the 650, and the 600 ohm versions should mate well with the Crack. Not too many high impedance headphones around these days; Senn and Beyer seem to be about the only ones left afaik.

Thanks dB Cooper.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

I used to think soundstage was mostly dependent on physical things, until I got the Audioforge equalizer.  When I "fixed" certain problems where the volume changed rapidly or dramatically from one frequency to the next (i.e. "colorations"), the soundstage would improve immensely.  Most audiophiles don't want to believe this, but they haven't tried it either.  My wife said that my fix for her ATH ESW9a "made the sound come alive".  Entities like Innerfidelity report a "constricted" sound for many small headphones, but those are all fixable.

Hi dalethorn.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Guy 13

[dB Cooper]

Guy,
I keep coming back to this but... Can you get Beyer stuff there? Something like the 600 ohm version of the DT880 might be just the ticket and would (probably, subject to testing) mesh well with the amp you now have. It also isn't a princely sum by today's increasingly high ticket headphone market. You could probably sell your HD650's and come out close to even or maybe even ahead.

[adydula]

There are many folks that swear by the T90's and the bottlehead crack......its almost cult like.....I haven't heard the combo myself just stuck with my new ODA!!

Alex

[Guy 13]

Guy,
I keep coming back to this but... Can you get Beyer stuff there? Something like the 600 ohm version of the DT880 might be just the ticket and would (probably, subject to testing) mesh well with the amp you now have. It also isn't a princely sum by today's increasingly high ticket headphone market. You could probably sell your HD650's and come out close to even or maybe even ahead.

Hi dB Cooper.
Please keep coming back as often as you want, I don't object, I even like it.
Thanks.
I found an online seller that he sell Bayer Dynamics but he only sell a very limited choice of headphones, I even asked them if they could sell them under special order, they never answered me.
I am still looking.
Of course it would be super easy to order from Amazon and ship to my wife's nephew and then wait for the next Vietnamese to come to Vietnam, but that might take several months.
For now I am looking at the DT-770/880/990, but since I had rely too much on reviews and got screwed up. (Sorry, not the exact word) I am more cautious with my next purchase.
One other thing, I would like to go with the 600 Ohms version and one last think, which is very, very important, is that I need velour ear pad. Much more comfortable for a guy like me that sweat a lot on planet Vietnam.
Tomorrow, Sunday, my sole day off, I will spend some time looking.
Thanks and please, keep coming back.

Guy 13

By the way, may I ask what headphones you have
and with what amplifier(s) you drive them.

[Guy 13]

I think Beyer is a good suggestion, but the comments about 'veiled' sound, even slightly veiled, says get a Beyer Tesla driver headphone.

Hi delathorn.

Thanks for the suggestion,
I just saw on Amazon the T70 at 538 USD,
that's a little over my limit ? ? ?

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

There are many folks that swear by the T90's and the bottlehead crack......its almost cult like.....I haven't heard the combo myself just stuck with my new ODA!!

Alex

Hi adydula.
(What a strange name you have )

Thanks for the suggestion,
but your suggestion is even more out of my budget than the T70.
My limit is 500 USD or more like 400 USD, the price I paid for the HD-650.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

The DT770/880/990 are good headphones, but not Teslas, and I think what you've expressed about detail needs a Tesla.  I've had the DT770 pro and it's light-years below the quality of a T70 or T90. The HD600/650 would be better I think than a DT770.

Hi dalethorn.
You said and I quote:
The DT770/880/990 are good headphones, but not Teslas,
Unquote.
Are the T70 and T90 headphones from the Teslas series ? ? ?
Would you please clarify the above,
sorry about imposing you my iQ of 40 not 140.
Do you know if the T70 and T90 can be supplied with 600 Ohms ?

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

I don't think your IQ is going to miss any details here - and the search on a limited budget has lots of details.

Yes, the T70, T90, T5p, T1 are Teslas, and so are the DT1350 and T51p. Those last two are as far from neutral as the Earth is from the Moon, so the T70 is where you want to look for Tesla and neutral. BTW, you don't have to be an expert (I'm not) to hear the details from those Tesla-driver headphones.  It's quite amazing when you have a long listen, and then compare to the HD650 for example.  The T90 is 250 ohms only, but it is considered fairly efficient.

Hi (Again) dalethorn.
I forgive you for not telling me what headphones/amplifiers you own,
it's your military secret.
I just finish reading the link you posted in your previous post.
Very interesting, but now when I read reviews I have a strange feeling...
Because I know that even if a reviewer as listen to dozens of headphones,
he's still bias with his internal preferences.
He cannot be 100% neutral.
I will keep looking and reading
and also see if I could scratch some bottom's drawers to find some forgotten $ $ $
to finance that new (Non vital) spending.

Thanks again for your recommendations.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

It's important to remember a few things about biases. A good salesman does not let biases lose the sale, and I know my biases well enough to objectify them and keep them where they belong.

I also know that the customer is always right, as much as possible.

But there is more: I believe in high fidelity much more than any particular sound, and one must always anchor all preferences and biases at that point, so one does not stray far enough as to get lost. The Beyer T70 for example is not as neutral as the Sennheiser HD600 or HD800, and perhaps less neutral than the HD650 also. But the T70 has the fundamental detail that the Senn 600 series is somewhat lacking, and so neutrality can be gotten or tweaked from a Tesla headphone, while comparable details cannot be gotten from the 600 series.

It's the old principle that's found in the question: "What's the difference between an elephant and a flea?"
Answer: An elephant can have fleas, but a flea cannot have elephants.

My gear is all portable, except the Alpha Dog, which is temporary.

Hi dalethorn.
Thanks for your explanation, I will keep that in mind.
Now my turn:
What's the difference between a Vietnamese dog and a Vietnamese flea ?
The Vietnamese dag always has flea and the Vietnamese flea always has a dog.
 
I know, my wife has three Vietnamese dogs.

Guy 13

[JohnR]

Guy, sorry if you mentioned already but what is your source?

[Guy 13]

Guy, sorry if you mentioned already but what is your source?

Hi JohnR.
I don't remember if I did mention it, therefore, I will mention it for you.
It's a Rega Apollo with good quality CD from Chesky, Stereophiles and the same.
Between the CD player and the Bottlehead Crack I've got 50cm of Signal OFC cables to my HQ switch box and 50cm to the Crack.
I did also try a direct path from the CD player to the Crack.
I hope this answer your question, if not, try again, no problem.

Guy 13