AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Tube-o-phile Circle => Topic started by: Bigfishhk on 16 May 2013, 02:45 am
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Am thinking of rolling Psvane T series 12ax7's in the input stage of Rogue Tempest 2 integrated amp ( passive line stage)
I have tried JJ,s, Telefunken, RCA. Tele,s so far the best but the two i have are showing their age now. RCA,s also doing decent job.
What I would be hoping for is additional trasnparency, warmth and air.
Anyone tried the psvane treaures in their Rogue or any other amp for that matter?
Tx
TB
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Here's a thought, JohnR is Karma giving a pair of 12AX7's from his stash and only one number for the 1st Drawing is left:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116742.0
Jim
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Hi Bigfishhk:
I see that you grabbed the last number, I hope you win....the Baldwin Organ Company only used the best tubes which were made by the likes of RCA, Telefunken and a few other notables.
Jim
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Hi Bigfishhk:
I see that you grabbed the last number, I hope you win....the Baldwin Organ Company only used the best tubes which were made by the likes of RCA, Telefunken and a few other notables.
Jim
Hey thanks Jim. I hope I win too!
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I have been very curious too about the Psvane 12ax7s in my Rogue (Stereo 90). Waiting for my upgrade to settle in, and then 12ax7s are top of my audio to-do list when I've got some extra cash.
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I have the Psvanes in the phono stage of my 99 but I have to admit that I haven't done any rolling to compare them with other makes. I don't know that anything will best the Tele 12AX7s though (what I have in my Stereo 90).
Bigfish, I have two pairs of the Psvane 12AX7. I could send you a pair to try out. Been thinking of selling a pair anyway. If they work for you we could work out a deal. If not, no problem. BTW, I got these from Grants as their top of the line version.
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I have the Psvanes in the phono stage of my 99 but I have to admit that I haven't done any rolling to compare them with other makes. I don't know that anything will best the Tele 12AX7s though (what I have in my Stereo 90).
Bigfish, I have two pairs of the Psvane 12AX7. I could send you a pair to try out. Been thinking of selling a pair anyway. If they work for you we could work out a deal. If not, no problem. BTW, I got these from Grants as their top of the line version.
Yes please
Tx
TB
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I have the Psvanes in the phono stage of my 99 but I have to admit that I haven't done any rolling to compare them with other makes. I don't know that anything will best the Tele 12AX7s though (what I have in my Stereo 90).
Bigfish, I have two pairs of the Psvane 12AX7. I could send you a pair to try out. Been thinking of selling a pair anyway. If they work for you we could work out a deal. If not, no problem. BTW, I got these from Grants as their top of the line version.
What do you like about the Teles compared to other 12ax7s in the Stereo 90? Are you using smooth or ribbed plates?
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I think they're smooth plates but I'll have to look. Honestly, I haven't done much input/driver rolling in my 90. I'm not even sure I've tried another 9 pin though I have tried a couple of different 6SN7s in it. They didn't make too much difference in my context. I have Philips ECGs there right now. I have others to try but I ran out of tube rolling time/energy/desire and have been just listening to music instead. Let me know what makes a big difference in your amp, Roscoe.
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I'd love it if you could compare the Psvane and Tele 12ax7s in the Stereo 90 before that pair gets shipped off.
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I currently was running PSVane 12ax7s in my Rogue Tempest III until I saw a thread on Audiogon about 5751s. So I investigated it and ordered a pair Electro Harmonix from Cryoset and it was like I upgraded my amp. So I highly recommend trying it for yourself since, in my opinion, its a much bigger improvement for less.
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I currently was running PSVane 12ax7s in my Rogue Tempest III until I saw a thread on Audiogon about 5751s. So I investigated it and ordered a pair Electro Harmonix from Cryoset and it was like I upgraded my amp. So I highly recommend trying it for yourself since, in my opinion, its a much bigger improvement for less.
In what areas did you hear the most improvement? Anything that the Psvanes did better?
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It was an improvment across the board in all areas. The PSVanes are touch smoother and that is it.
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It was an improvment across the board in all areas. The PSVanes are touch smoother and that is it.
Wow, you may have just saved me some money. These are the new production tubes?
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Yes! Here is the link to where I ordered mine from:
http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_79&products_id=328&osCsid=1b2af0fa1053ec487a1dd2995feb40ae (http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_79&products_id=328&osCsid=1b2af0fa1053ec487a1dd2995feb40ae)
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Yes! Here is the link to where I ordered mine from:
http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_79&products_id=328&osCsid=1b2af0fa1053ec487a1dd2995feb40ae (http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_79&products_id=328&osCsid=1b2af0fa1053ec487a1dd2995feb40ae)
Interesting. Does 30% less gain with these tubes mean corresponding less volume?
Since tempest 2 doesn,t need a reduction in volume output!
Tx
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In what areas did you hear the most improvement? Anything that the Psvanes did better?
How were they when you ran them on tempest 3 in passive mode or did you always have the active pre amp mode on?
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How were they when you ran them on tempest 3 in passive mode or did you always have the active pre amp mode on?
In my system the difference in gain reduction was miniscule and I use 85db speakers.
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If they were input tubes, my understanding is that the reduction in gain isn't as consequential for volume. But I could have gotten that wrong...
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I'd love it if you could compare the Psvane and Tele 12ax7s in the Stereo 90 before that pair gets shipped off.
Still have a second pair of Pavanes. Might be a while before I can roll. Right now I'm enjoying my Quicksilver GLA amp. :thumb:
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Still have a second pair of Pavanes. Might be a while before I can roll. Right now I'm enjoying my Quicksilver GLA amp. :thumb:
I am a patient man.
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Yes! Here is the link to where I ordered mine from:
http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_79&products_id=328&osCsid=1b2af0fa1053ec487a1dd2995feb40ae (http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_79&products_id=328&osCsid=1b2af0fa1053ec487a1dd2995feb40ae)
Curious. What made you chose this particular 5751 over the other 5751s?
Tx
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If they were input tubes, my understanding is that the reduction in gain isn't as consequential for volume. But I could have gotten that wrong...
I use 5751's in my integrated instead of the stock 12AX7's, no difference in volume.
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5751's are a lower gain industrial version of the 12AX7 and a sweet tube indeed. I surprised that more folks in the audio world haven't taken a liking to them. Guitarist have been using them for a long time in their amps with excellent results.
Jim
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Curious. What made you chose this particular 5751 over the other 5751s?
Tx
Hey Bigfish,
I went with the EH because of all of the new brands they are what I consider a safe choice. So for that reason I went with all EH tubes in my Rogue with great success.
Tom
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If they were input tubes, my understanding is that the reduction in gain isn't as consequential for volume. But I could have gotten that wrong...
just asked MArk O Brien at Rogue. He says it won't make much difference you're right
TOm
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I use 5751's in my integrated instead of the stock 12AX7's, no difference in volume.
do you also prefer them over 12ax7? (must do since you use them !)
Big difference to 12ax7?
And which model do you use?
tx
Tom
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do you also prefer them over 12ax7? (must do since you use them !)
Big difference to 12ax7?
And which model do you use?
tx
Tom
I prefer the 5751 over the 12ax7 big time! Tempest III
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do you also prefer them over 12ax7? (must do since you use them !)
Big difference to 12ax7?
And which model do you use?
it was a nice difference in my amp. I'm using some NOS 1958 GE triple mica black plate. I compared to the Psvane 12AX7 and liked the GE better.
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Vortrex, feel free to send those Psvanes my way...
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Vortrex, feel free to send those Psvanes my way...
already with a new owner.
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If any of you try the 5751 for the first time please post your experiences with it?
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If any of you try the 5751 for the first time please post your experiences with it?
I am going to compare the EH cyro 5751 that you recommend to the Psvane 12ax7 in my Tempest. Couldn't resist trying the 5751 to get a different sound when it's been so highly recomended by fellow Rogue amp user. Awaiting both sets of tubes.
It might take a couple of weeks due to time constraints.
Tom
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Tom
Lookig forward to hearing your impressions once you've had a chance to evaluate both . I'm also considering trying a pair of the 5751's and am intersted in knowing what you discover .
-jay
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I am going to compare the EH cyro 5751 that you recommend to the Psvane 12ax7 in my Tempest. Couldn't resist trying the 5751 to get a different sound when it's been so highly recomended by fellow Rogue amp user. Awaiting both sets of tubes.
It might take a couple of weeks due to time constraints.
Tom
Cryoset got my tubes to me in a few days. I also ordered EH 6sn7s from him too.
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Cryoset got my tubes to me in a few days. I also ordered EH 6sn7s from him too.
received 5751 last night and had a quick listen. Even without burn in yet I am impressed.
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received 5751 last night and had a quick listen. Even without burn in yet I am impressed.
Can't wait to hear how they compare to other tubes you have tried. Many thanks for posting your impressions.
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Can't wait to hear how they compare to other tubes you have tried. Many thanks for posting your impressions.
+1
-jay
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received 5751 last night and had a quick listen. Even without burn in yet I am impressed.
Still liking the 5751s, Tom? I swapped out my EH KT88s for my EH KT90s and hey have great synergy with the 5751s.
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Still liking the 5751s, Tom? I swapped out my EH KT88s for my EH KT90s and hey have great synergy with the 5751s.
Yes really liking the 5751. As good if not better than any 12 ax7 I have heard in my amplifier.
And at an affordable price, this is a big discovery.Thanks
Tx
Tom
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Can't wait to hear how they compare to other tubes you have tried. Many thanks for posting your impressions.
After about 30 hrs burn in, some early impressions of the EH 5751 in my system.
Compared to 12 ax7 I find that there's small but perceptible improvements in all areas.. As if looking over a large vista and a light mist has lifted, I can now see more detail in the landscape, the colors are a tad more brilliant.
I am the not good with audio descriptions but I know when I like the sound- same as with wine. I suppose if I had to try and pin it down there's more transparency, air and separation of instruments. Soundstage is deep and wide. Everthing is cleaner, almost purer, yet still maintaining the nice warmth, tone and texture we value in a tube set up. I am curious how much difference the cyro treatment makes. But for pretty much the same price I would go with them over the standard EH 5751's.
How do they compare to the 12 ax7's? All I can say is that I prefer the 5751 in my system, but it's a subtle improvement, not night and day.
Of the 12ax7's I have tried the PSvane Treasure were excellent, just behind some glorious Telefunkens. I would be happy with both of those tubes as well. However the EH's are both more appealing to my ears and my wallet so I'm going with those. Of the the other 12ax7's I have tried, nos RCA's pretty sweet, but new JJ's too thick and lacking in finesse.
Rogue Tempest 2
SB Touch
Eastern Elec minimax plus dac
Salk Song Tower speakers
Rythmik 12" sub
TOm
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How are the dynamics and bass? These are the aspects I am most concerned about.
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How are the dynamics and bass? These are the aspects I am most concerned about.
In comparing the excellent Psvane T 12ax7 with the EH cyro 5751, I did not hear much difference in the areas you ask about. Push comes to shove I think the Psvane 12AX7 has stronger bass output.
Note I have a Tempest 2 passive linestage int amp which I don't believe is known for its dynamics compared with an active pre amp/ amp. So my sytem may not be as revealing of these qualities.
For more details I would ask Trianglezerius as he more experience with tube. In fact I would like to hear more of his impressions too.
Also I would say that if you already have excellent 12ax7 you would not need to change over unless curiosity bites.
However if you were looking for decent well priced, easily accessible 12ax7's, this 5751 is a wonderful option in my opinion. Certainly in my Tempest.
the lower gain of the 5751 did not translate to lower volume in my set up either.
to sum up, the 5751 silky smooth and refined. Thr Psvane T 12AX7 slightly better bass possibly. Not quite as silky smooth but damn close!
best
TOm
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Any more updates folks?
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Any more updates folks?
+1 on that as I just got my Rogue Cronus Magnum and am keen to try out some alternative (and hopefully low-cost ) tubes...
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Try a NOS Sylvania. Not expensive, and a excellent performer.
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Try a NOS Sylvania. Not expensive, and a excellent performer.
I second that.NOS Sylvania 5751 with gold pins.
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+1 on that as I just got my Rogue Cronus Magnum and am keen to try out some alternative (and hopefully low-cost ) tubes...
Low cost- then the cyro treated 5751 EH is great at 30 each. See previous links.
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Try a NOS Sylvania. Not expensive, and a excellent performer.
I just got the rogue 99 pre amp and it sounds wonderful hooked up to the tempest 2. now i have real sense of dynamics and refined power.
It came with EH tubes and the stock Chinese tubes. S far so good. With 4 tubes it,s hard not to be cost conscious.
How about recommendations for 6sn7? At some point I will roll them.
Tom
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+1 on that as I just got my Rogue Cronus Magnum and am keen to try out some alternative (and hopefully low-cost ) tubes...
Congrats on finally scoring a Rogue. Hope you are enjoying it!
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Congrats on finally scoring a Rogue. Hope you are enjoying it!
Hi Roscoeiii,
Thanks, I'm really enjoying it, very clear, strong and full sound. I do have one issue though but I'm not sure if it's the room, the source material or what. I find on some material (MFSL Exodus CD by Bob Marley, etc.) that the highs are a bit "etched" and hard and the cymbals sound a bit blurry This is why I was thinking perhaps a change in tubes might assist. I'm quite the newbie at this so I appreciate any advice offered!
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Hi Roscoeiii,
Thanks, I'm really enjoying it, very clear, strong and full sound. I do have one issue though but I'm not sure if it's the room, the source material or what. I find on some material (MFSL Exodus CD by Bob Marley, etc.) that the highs are a bit "etched" and hard and the cymbals sound a bit blurry This is why I was thinking perhaps a change in tubes might assist. I'm quite the newbie at this so I appreciate any advice offered!
Tube rolling may very well help with that.
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Try a NOS Sylvania. Not expensive, and a excellent performer.
Thanks but where to source them? Every place I look (ebay, tubedepot, other audio groups, etc.) they're running at least $200 pair...
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Thanks but where to source them? Every place I look (ebay, tubedepot, other audio groups, etc.) they're running at least $200 pair...
OK, here is a secret (SSHH) :lol:
Call Radio Electric Supply in FL, ask for Roy or Dale, and order some 6681. They are a mobile 12AX7. They have quite a few, they are all Sylvania, and 20.00 each. I got a pair for a buddy, and he says they smoke the EH tubes he was using.
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Hi Roscoeiii,
Thanks, I'm really enjoying it, very clear, strong and full sound. I do have one issue though but I'm not sure if it's the room, the source material or what. I find on some material (MFSL Exodus CD by Bob Marley, etc.) that the highs are a bit "etched" and hard and the cymbals sound a bit blurry This is why I was thinking perhaps a change in tubes might assist. I'm quite the newbie at this so I appreciate any advice offered!
i think you should also let the tubes settle in for a few weeks.
btw what are the tubes they sell the unit with?
tom
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i think you should also let the tubes settle in for a few weeks.
btw what are the tubes they sell the unit with?
tom
It's a used item (about a year old) so the tubes should be well burned in. Not sure what types they are other than that they are stock. I will be opening it up later to see what they are and because I'm going to change the faceplate (sliver to black).
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OK, here is a secret (SSHH) :lol:
Call Radio Electric Supply in FL, ask for Roy or Dale, and order some 6681. They are a mobile 12AX7. They have quite a few, they are all Sylvania, and 20.00 each. I got a pair for a buddy, and he says they smoke the EH tubes he was using.
What's a "mobile 12AX7"?
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It's a regular 12AX7, but has been screened to operate in mobile applications. The filament can operate up to 20% over or under. It's actually a better 12AX7.
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It's a regular 12AX7, but has been screened to operate in mobile applications. The filament can operate up to 20% over or under. It's actually a better 12AX7.
sounds like a great deal from what you say.
do you know any such amazing deals for 6sn7's for the 99 pre amp? I have the stock Chinese 6sn7 plus EH ones. What would you recommend?
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Alas, there is no magic bullet for the 6SN7 variant. I would again check Radio Electric Supply, or Vacuumtubes.inc for their current prices. They are reasonable, and stand behind their sale.
I can state that almost any NOS 6SN7 will be an improvement over current production. It's too bad you didn't get in on Gvt1911's sale recently.
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Like I said earlier I use all EH tubes in my Tempest III with great success that allows me to enjoy the music. :D
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Like I said earlier I use all EH tubes in my Tempest III with great success that allows me to enjoy the music. :D
Standard EH or those special cyro treated ones?
Thanks
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Standard EH or those special cyro treated ones?
Thanks
The inputs are cryo'd the outputs are not.
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Thanks but where to source them? Every place I look (ebay, tubedepot, other audio groups, etc.) they're running at least $200 pair...
$200/pair for Sylvania 12AU7s! Are you looking at Sylvania power tubes maybe? Concerning power tubes, you'll have to stick with new production there. But you can roll the 9-pins for very little dough to your heart's content. If you need 12AX7s buy Freo's Raytheons!!!!
Are the tubes fully burnt in? Don't change them out until you've got at least 100 hours on them. They may mellow a bit more to your liking. It is possible the first owner of your amp swapped the stock tubes immediately and put them back in when selling. Your tubes may not have any hours on them.
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Sylvania Amplitrex-matched 12AX7 pairs starting at $69/pair:
http://tctubes.com/12AX7-ECC33-5751-7025-tubes.aspx?page=2
Sylvania Amplitrex-matched 12AU7 pairs starting at $42/pair (Raytheons $39/pr):
http://tctubes.com/12AU7-ECC32-5814A-6189-7316-tubes.aspx
Telefunken 12AX7 $120/pair:
http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubes.html
I would buy primo tubes from these guys, due to their excellent quality testers used, instead of giving the other guys, who use some old tester they found on ebay, loads of my dough for questionably tested tubes at high prices.
Have fun!
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No, I was looking at $200 for Sylvania 3-mica black-plate, gold pin 12AX7's....the previous owner told me he never changed out any tubes on the Cronus after buying it so I assume that they're the stock tubes with probably well over 100 hours on them. I'm leaving the stock KT-120 power tubes in place. I am gonna try Freo's 's suggestion today, the prices look great....
A question, when I swap out the 12AX7's should I also be looking at changing the 12AU7's?....
Update: thanks for the links, I'll take a look.
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The 12ax7s are the input tube right? Those will make the biggest difference. I'd just concentrate on them for now.
And yeah, I'd stick with the KT120s as output tubes. They are much loved.
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Sylvania Amplitrex-matched 12AX7 pairs starting at $69/pair:
http://tctubes.com/12AX7-ECC33-5751-7025-tubes.aspx?page=2
Sylvania Amplitrex-matched 12AU7 pairs starting at $42/pair (Raytheons $39/pr):
http://tctubes.com/12AU7-ECC32-5814A-6189-7316-tubes.aspx
Telefunken 12AX7 $120/pair:
http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubes.html
I would buy primo tubes from these guys, due to their excellent quality testers used, instead of giving the other guys, who use some old tester they found on ebay, loads of my dough for questionably tested tubes at high prices.
Have fun!
In reading around, I get the impression that all these Sylvanias have different sonic characteristics...lots of choices, appreciate any tips on which ones....
The center 12AU7 is the preamp tube, doesn't that also influence the sound of the Cronus?
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The center 12AU7 is the preamp tube and will have a big influence on the sound. The great thing there is that singles are cheaper than pairs (usually 30-40% of a pair), and 12AU7s are cheaper than 12AX7s so you may get a few different things to try out for little money. The next biggest improvement should be the 12AX7s as I believe they are the voltage gain tubes. The 12AU7 pair is probably power tube drivers. Some say they also make a big difference but I personally haven't found driver rolling to lead to much change. Perhaps it's circuit dependent. I have not compared the different Sylvania types. Give TC tubes a call or send an email letting them know what kind of sound you're looking for and Tyler can probably make some recommendations.
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No, I was looking at $200 for Sylvania 3-mica black-plate, gold pin 12AX7's....the previous owner told me he never changed out any tubes on the Cronus after buying it so I assume that they're the stock tubes with probably well over 100 hours on them. I'm leaving the stock KT-120 power tubes in place. I am gonna try Freo's 's suggestion today, the prices look great....
A question, when I swap out the 12AX7's should I also be looking at changing the 12AU7's?....
Update: thanks for the links, I'll take a look.
[/quote
Alex, I have a Cronus Magnum and have settled on the following arrangement after some experimentation:
12AX7 -2 Tungsram (1970's vintage)
12AU7 preamp position - Telefunken smoothplate (early '60s)
12AU7 2 RCA Cleartop (Conn Organ pulls)
I tried an RCA Cleartop in the preamp position but it couldn't match the Tele for depth of soundstage and overall balance....but it was close.
I have a set of Mullard CV4004 and CV4003 from the 1980's, however, for me, they were a bit blurry. I know they need more break-in time.
The Amp came with an old GE triple mica 5814A (installed from the factory) and it is very good, as well. A bit more forward than the Tele.
Just my 2 cents.
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Alex, I have a Cronus Magnum and have settled on the following arrangement after some experimentation:
12AX7 -2 Tungsram (1970's vintage)
12AU7 preamp position - Telefunken smoothplate (early '60s)
12AU7 2 RCA Cleartop (Conn Organ pulls)
I tried an RCA Cleartop in the preamp position but it couldn't match the Tele for depth of soundstage and overall balance....but it was close.
I have a set of Mullard CV4004 and CV4003 from the 1980's, however, for me, they were a bit blurry. I know they need more break-in time.
The Amp came with an old GE triple mica 5814A (installed from the factory) and it is very good, as well. A bit more forward than the Tele.
Just my 2 cents.
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Another good spot to look for NOS tubes is Brent Jessee
http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm
Quite a bit of info and good selection
-jay
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Alex, I have a Cronus Magnum and have settled on the following arrangement after some experimentation:
12AX7 -2 Tungsram (1970's vintage)
12AU7 preamp position - Telefunken smoothplate (early '60s)
12AU7 2 RCA Cleartop (Conn Organ pulls)
I tried an RCA Cleartop in the preamp position but it couldn't match the Tele for depth of soundstage and overall balance....but it was close.
I have a set of Mullard CV4004 and CV4003 from the 1980's, however, for me, they were a bit blurry. I know they need more break-in time.
The Amp came with an old GE triple mica 5814A (installed from the factory) and it is very good, as well. A bit more forward than the Tele.
Just my 2 cents.
What did you like about the Tungsram 12AX7s compared to other 12AX7s you tried?
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What did you like about the Tungsram 12AX7s compared to other 12AX7s you tried?
I've never been able to test any Tungsram tubes in my system but a reliable friend and dealer says they are highly underated/underappreciated tubes that sound fantastic. The only caveat with them, according to him, is they can be quite noisy and must be tested for noise.
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This is a question re the 6sn7 tubes in the rogue 99 pre amp. Apparently two of the tubes positions are the most important and should have the better tubes. The are some AG threads to this effect.
Just wondering if anyone can confirm that this is true, and also that it,s fine to have 2 different brand of tubes- ie 2 matched pairs one on each side?
Thanks
Tom
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This is a question re the 6sn7 tubes in the rogue 99 pre amp. Apparently two of the tubes positions are the most important and should have the better tubes. The are some AG threads to this effect.
Tom,
The tubes on the right, looking from the front of the unit, are the gain stages, and if I remember correctly, the tubes at the back are for the left channel. The tubes on the left are the cathode/mu followers. WRT tube position and sound, I hear a significant difference when I change the follower tubes. If I had to assign a number to that, considering what I hear and what others have reported, I'd guess 60/40 gain/follower.
Just wondering if anyone can confirm that this is true, and also that it,s fine to have 2 different brand of tubes- ie 2 matched pairs one on each side?
Yes.
Robert
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Tom,
The tubes on the right, looking from the front of the unit, are the gain stages, and if I remember correctly, the tubes at the back are for the left channel. The tubes on the left are the cathode/mu followers. WRT tube position and sound, I hear a significant difference when I change the follower tubes. If I had to assign a number to that, considering what I hear and what others have reported, I'd guess 60/40 gain/follower.
Yes.
Robert
Thanks for the feedback. I rolled 2 x RCA 6sn7 into right side positions and left EH on left side. So far so very good. I am in honeymoon period with the Rogue 99!
Meanwhile my very limited comparisons in my rogue 99 / tempest (same as rogue90) set up for 12ax7
12ax7 vs 5751-
Psvane treasure 12ax7. Biggest bass, good dynamics
Telefunken 12ax7. Smoothest, sweetest presentation of my 12ax7's
EH 5751 (cyro gold) Possibly my favorite. Just plain musical, involving, sweet and transparent. Have no idea if the 5751 benefits from cyro treatment and not opening that can of worms.
I would be happy with any of the above but the Eh are by far the lowest price.
Tom
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Just curioous, has anyone compared the EH 5751 Gp to the EH 12AX7 GP ? Been thinking of giving these 5751's a try but am wondering about the 12AX7's from the same manufactuer. When I asked Ron at cryoset about it, he said that usually the 5751 is only used in "problem" designs and that the EH 12AX7 GP would be more dynamic.
Currently I'm running Baldwin (Raytheon) 12AX7 and am happy with them but with the price of NOS tubes going up all the time, I'd like to find a current production tube that I'm happy with
Curious to know if anyone has listened to both of the EH gold pin versions and what the differences were
-jay
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Just curioous, has anyone compared the EH 5751 Gp to the EH 12AX7 GP ? Been thinking of giving these 5751's a try but am wondering about the 12AX7's from the same manufactuer. When I asked Ron at cryoset about it, he said that usually the 5751 is only used in "problem" designs and that the EH 12AX7 GP would be more dynamic.
Currently I'm running Baldwin (sylvania I guess) 12AX7 and am happy with them but with the price of NOS tubes going up all the time, I'd like to find a current production tube that I'm happy with
Curious to know if anyone has listened to both of the EH gold pin versions and what the differences were
-jay
I asked MArk O'Brien about using 5751 in the Tempest and he said they were good. I am not sure they are only for 'problem' designs but I am no expert.
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I asked MArk O'Brien about using 5751 in the Tempest and he said they were good. I am not sure they are only for 'problem' designs but I am no expert.
I think what he was saying wasn't so much " they are ONLY for a problem cirucit" but that if there wasn't a problem where the lower gain was needed, he didn't see the benifit using them and that the higher gain 12aX7 would be more dynamic.
That is how I interpeted it anyway, I wasn't very clear in the wording
-jay
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I think what he was saying wasn't so much " they are ONLY for a problem cirucit" but that if there wasn't a problem where the lower gain was needed, he didn't see the benifit using them and that the higher gain 12aX7 would be more dynamic.
That is how I interpeted it anyway, I wasn't very clear in the wording
-jay
Maybe that,s right. I would say the 12ax7 better bass and possibly dynamics but not big difference to my ears. But overall trasnparency and sweetness, the 5751 seems best. I don,t find it easy to hear the differences unless it,s a A/B test. Can't do that fast enough with tube comparisons myself.
There were some other 5751 fans who pointed me in the 5751 direction who could add their opinions on the differences.
I think you best give them a shot yourself. Would enjoy hearing your feedback.
Tom
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I think what he was saying wasn't so much " they are ONLY for a problem cirucit" but that if there wasn't a problem where the lower gain was needed, he didn't see the benifit using them and that the higher gain 12aX7 would be more dynamic.
Maybe I am listening to too mellow music these days.. What suggestions for great songs to test dynamics?
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Maybe that,s right. I would say the 12ax7 better bass and possibly dynamics but not big difference to my ears. But overall trasnparency and sweetness, the 5751 seems best. I don,t find it easy to hear the differences unless it,s a A/B test. Can't do that fast enough with tube comparisons myself.
There were some other 5751 fans who pointed me in the 5751 direction who could add their opinions on the differences.
I think you best give them a shot yourself. Would enjoy hearing your feedback.
Tom
I agree it is difficult to make comparisons ... I find I have to put quite a bit of time on to determine how I really like / dislike something. I have 2 different pairs of 12AX7's right now, a pair of RI Mullards and a pair of Baldwins I was switching back and forth trying to determine which ones I liked and it is obviously the baldwins as I keep having to tell myself to try the Mullards again where as when the Mullards are in, I keep wanting to put the Baldwins back in.
The guy I got the amp from said the Mullards had very low hours on them so maybe they just need some more hours on them. The Baldwins just seem to be cleaner sounding and vocals seem better. I don't know, maybe i should just be looking for a good source that has good stock of the Baldwins at a decent price... I'll go back through this thread and check out some of the links that have been provided. I still may try a pair of the 5751's to compare with the 12AX7's i have now
I personally like to listen to the music I enjoy to make my assessment as that is what I'll be listening to .. I too find myself listening to much mellower music as compared to what I used to listen to
-jay
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I think what he was saying wasn't so much " they are ONLY for a problem cirucit" but that if there wasn't a problem where the lower gain was needed, he didn't see the benifit using them and that the higher gain 12aX7 would be more dynamic.
-jay
emailed Mark O Brien again and asked about 5751 vs 12ax7
he said
"I don't think the 5751 reduce dynamics at
all."
I know I am not hearing any difference in that dept vs the 12AX7, except maybe a tiny bit less bass but even that I am not quite sure I am hearing things or not!. However the whole musical image is better focussed so I like my 5751. Also I noticed that the 5751 had even more beneift when I was using the Tempst 2 in intergrated mode. As I now have it hooked up to a 99 s. magnum pre amp, the benefit of the 5751 is not quite as big. With the Tempest alone I feel it really needs better focus and trasnparency and the 5751 helped it.
at this point I am pretty much done with rolling tubes, well for now anyway. I have 2 Sylvania 6sn7 to try in the pre amp and that's it. Will alternate the EH 5751 and Telefunken 12ax7 in the amp when I want a little change.
TB
TB
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Captain - Baldwin did not, nor did any of the other organ makers manufactured tubes. They all bought from the major tube manufacturers and relabeled them. Are there any codes on the Baldwins? I might be able to identify them if you want to get some more.
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Tom, thanks for emailing Mark again and asking about the 5751's, apprieciate the info
ltr317 , yes, I realize that Baldwin didn't manufatuer their own tubes just wasn't 100% who made them so I've just been calling them Baldwins. I believe they are made by Sylvania bit mpt 100% sire, edit these are Rayteons).
There are some markings/codes...
Baldwin is written in blue..
To the upper left of baldwin it's marked 12AX7A
To the lower left of Baldwin is 5026
To the lower right P28065 49C
I put a few pictures in the Misc folder in y gallery (sorry not the greatest shots)
It'd be great if you could help itdentify the manufactuer , would really apprieciate that. Would be nice if I found out they were readily available for a similar price to current production, I know, wishful thinking right ?
-jay
Actually, doing some looking around on google. it would seem the the P280XX is a Raytheon date code where the Sylvania would have a 312... is this correct ?
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Tom, thanks for emailing Mark again and asking about the 5751's, apprieciate the info
ltr317 , yes, I realize that Baldwin didn't manufatuer their own tubes just wasn't 100% who made them so I've just been calling them Baldwins. I believe they are made by Sylvania bit mpt 1--% sire.
There are some markings/codes...
Baldwin is written in blue..
To the upper left of baldwin it's marked 12AX7A
To the lower left of Baldwin is 5026
To the lower right P28065 49C
I put a few pictures in the Misc folder in y gallery (sorry not the greatest shots)
It'd be great if you could help itdentify the manufactuer , would really apprieciate that. Would be nice if I found out they were readily available for a similar price to current production, I know, wishful thinking right ?
-jay
Actually, doing some looking around on google. it would seem the the P280XX is a Raytheon date code where the Sylvania would have a 312... is this correct ?
Yes, that's a Raytheon date code.
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Yes, that's a Raytheon date code.
Yes, that's a Raytheon date code.
Thank you for confirming that, at least I know what I like now LOL. Brent Jessie has NOS Raytheon black plate organ tubes for $90 matched pair.
Would still like to find a current production that sounds like them. I have been seeing that the RI Tung-Sol's are very popular. Guess I'm going to try a pair of those or the EH 5751's discussed above, might have to flip a coin ....
-jay
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I have recently bought a Cronus Magnum. I replaced the whole stock tubes (which came with Magnum) with the the set of Tung-Sol KT120 and Genalex Gold Lion 12 AX7. The imaging is very bright, vocal is clearer, but somehow it lacks the bass, the warmth of the old stocks.
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I'm going to try changing just the preamp 12ua7 first and have a line on some NOS here in Canada. Appreciate any recommendations re these choices as they all seem to be good ones to me (shows how deep my tube expertise is! :lol: )
Sylvania gold brand, all from the mid 1950's, with long plates, all NOS:
5814, triple mica, grey plate bent square getter
5963 bent square getter, grey plate
12au7 blackplate bent square getter
1950's Raytheon blackplate, with the angled square getter (not O getter)
Amperex, Holland rare dimple getter, orange globe, tests new
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I have recently bought a Cronus Magnum. I replaced the whole stock tubes (which came with Magnum) with the the set of Tung-Sol KT120 and Genalex Gold Lion 12 AX7. The imaging is very bright, vocal is clearer, but somehow it lacks the bass, the warmth of the old stocks.
How much time have you given the new tubes to settle in?
Tom
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Ok, received my pair of EH 5751 GP's from Cryoset this am. I pulled my Baldwin (Raytheon) 12AX7's and rolled the 5751's into my JD302CRC. I must say , I'm pretty impressed with these right out of the box. I only have about 6-7 hrs on them but they sound very good. The highs could be a bit smoother but I'm sure that will come with some hours. Not noticing any decrease in volume level or in dynamics when compared to the 12AX7's I had in previously. In fact, if anything, I'd say the bottom is a bit cleaner and tighter ! I know it is very early, but I'm pleased so far.
Guess the only bad news is Ron from Cryoset informed me today that New Sensor has discontinued the 5751 Gold Pins, need to clarify with him if that was just the GP edition or the 5751 itself
I'll update a bit more when I get some hours on the tubes
-jay
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Jay, what's the latest on your 5751's?
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Jay, what's the latest on your 5751's?
Funny you should ask that as just the other night I rolled the Ratheon 12AX7's back in. After listening to the EH 5751's for the past 3 months, I wanted to throw the Rayteons back in for comparison.
First off, I have been very happy with the EH5751 GP's. Like mentioned above they are veyr musical and I find them to be very smooth When I rolled them in a few months ago I did not notice any drop off in dynamics from the Raytheons. They seemed well extened in both bass and the highs. I found and still find vocals to be extemely clear and well reporduced. When people are here, I always get comments on how well people can hear the vocals.
Now, upon returning to the Raytheons the other night, I DID notice an improvement in dynamics which also seems to have made a slight improvement to the soundstage. Seems to be a bit wider with a bit more detail/seperation between instraments. These differences are not dramatic but they are there The raytheons don't seem to do quite as good a job with vocals. Again, not a huge difference but the vocals just aren't quite equal to those heard when using the EH 5751's
As I mentioned earlier. when I rolled the 5751's in, I did not notice any drop in dynamics, strange that I did going the other way. Since the initial installation of the 5751's I have replaced my caps with Clarity MR's (coupling and signal ground) and wonder if the new caps are letting the additional gain of the 12AX7's become noticable ... :scratch:
I'd say you can't go too far wrong with the EH5751's except that New Sensor has stopped producing them.
I'd also be interested in hear from the others who have now put some time on these tubes
-jay