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Industry Circles => Tortuga Audio => Topic started by: MadKid on 1 Dec 2017, 05:52 am

Title: V25 OLED Display
Post by: MadKid on 1 Dec 2017, 05:52 am
Hi, is the OLED display module development still carrying on? Can you tell roughly in what time it will become available?

Thanks,
Ken
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 1 Dec 2017, 07:29 pm
Hi, is the OLED display module development still carrying on? Can you tell roughly in what time it will become available?

Thanks,
Ken


Yes, most definitely. I expect to release it in the 1st quarter of 2018. Yes, that's a wide window but probably won't be January.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: Jens on 23 Jan 2018, 01:35 pm
Hi Morten,

The OLED display sounds really nice :)

Would you be able to lift the veil a bit concerning what information will be available in the display?

I have my Tortuga V25 in a cupboard (controlled by a Logitec IR blaster), but I have a plan to get the OLED display (when available) and place the display outside the cupboard (underneath, as the cupboard is wall-mounted). That would probably require the ribbon cable to be around a foot long. Would the cable length be a problem, do you think?

Cheers,

Jens
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 26 Jan 2018, 06:32 pm
Hi Morten,

The OLED display sounds really nice :)

Would you be able to lift the veil a bit concerning what information will be available in the display?

I have my Tortuga V25 in a cupboard (controlled by a Logitec IR blaster), but I have a plan to get the OLED display (when available) and place the display outside the cupboard (underneath, as the cupboard is wall-mounted). That would probably require the ribbon cable to be around a foot long. Would the cable length be a problem, do you think?

Cheers,

Jens

I hope to have a brief video available soon showing some elements of the new display info. The overall framework of the oled display firmware is in place along with most of the low level coding stuff. The remaining work is fleshing out the individual menus and doing the detailed debugging. In plain english the hard technical work has been done but the tedious fine tuning remains.

Conceptually there will be a menu tree that you can drill down into or escape back out of with clear large font text letting you know what menu item your're at. The main/default volume display will be a single large number (1-99)  with volume bias value (up to 20 max) shown on left or right of the volume value. There's a visual volume bar as well. When you're muted it will say MUTE otherwise it will show the volume step. There will be an options menu where you can select volume displayed as step number (1-99) or dB (-60 to 0).

The main menu items will mostly follow the exsiting menu structure used with the existing display modes:  volume, input, impedance, display, calibration etc. There will likely be a new overall settings/options menu item with a list of submenu items where you can turn certain features on/off.

I think most will find it to be fairly intuitive to navigate and certainly easier than the existing control/display system.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 28 Jan 2018, 02:16 pm
Yesterday I went to make a short video of the new OLED graphic display in action using my Google Pixel phone which has a fabulous camera. Not so fast.

Turns out the Pixel camera bombards whatever it's pointed at with some type of signal to determine distance. This signal must contain some amount of infrared noise because whenever I point the camera at the OLED/IR receiver and try to make a change with the remote, the camera steps all over the IR command from the remote.

Yes, that's right, my smartphone camera is jamming my preamp.  :o

Time to break out the big SLR which hopefully using a more polite depth finder.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: mikebarney on 30 Jan 2018, 01:13 am
Looking forward to seeing the photos.  I’ve had a version 25 board waiting for some time for the OLED display.
Mike
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: RichPark on 30 Jan 2018, 08:38 pm
The phone is using infra red to focus. Turn off auto focus and you should be good.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 31 Jan 2018, 11:37 pm
The phone is using infra red to focus. Turn off auto focus and you should be good.

Aha!!! Fantastic. Took a bit of searching around to figure out how to turn off autofocus but once I did I can now maintain focus and the preamp responds normally now that the camera's IR focus bombardment is turned off.

Much appreciated!!  :thumb:
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: glynnw on 5 Feb 2018, 04:25 am
I am assuming the new display will be larger than the current digital numbers.  If you need to change to a different case I really encourage you to use one that is opened from the top, at least for the kit.  The current case is with the end plate coming off, which for me leads to breaking the wires when I try to put it back together.  That is why I had to send mine to you for repair a while back.  Also, if I download the latest software, will that give me the new balance control that keeps the volume almost constant?  And lastly, I recently added a pre-amp to my system - it sounded a bit better than the custom buffer I had been using.  But since the pre-amp  has no remote I am keeping the Tortuga passive feeding it.  To my ears there is just no change in the sound when I add it in and remote volume and balance are a wonderful thing for a couch potato like me.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 5 Feb 2018, 10:06 pm
I am assuming the new display will be larger than the current digital numbers.  If you need to change to a different case I really encourage you to use one that is opened from the top, at least for the kit.  The current case is with the end plate coming off, which for me leads to breaking the wires when I try to put it back together.  That is why I had to send mine to you for repair a while back.  Also, if I download the latest software, will that give me the new balance control that keeps the volume almost constant?  And lastly, I recently added a pre-amp to my system - it sounded a bit better than the custom buffer I had been using.  But since the pre-amp  has no remote I am keeping the Tortuga passive feeding it.  To my ears there is just no change in the sound when I add it in and remote volume and balance are a wonderful thing for a couch potato like me.

Regarding the OLED display

The new OLED (organic LED) display is a 1" tall by 3.25" wide rectangle. The overall display unit is larger than this but that's the size of visible glass panel. Since it's a pixel based graphical display the entire area is available for display of either text, numbers or images.

The existing 7-segment displays have numbers that are 0.56" tall and is reasonably visible from seated listening positions assuming the equipment is located 10-15 feet in front of the seated listener. The primary volume level numbers in the OLED display will be roughly the same size and will also be blue text/numbers against a nearly black backgroung. In my opinion the OLED display has better overall display contrast than the blue 7-segment LED display. The objective with the OLED display is for the user to clearly see the display as good as or better than the 7-segment. However, there will be certain display info such as when selecting options, enabling/disabling certain features, or viewing diagnostic info etc. that will will user smaller fonts and require the user to be at the unit to view the info.

The OLED display will fit within the current enclosure and occupy roughly the same 3D space as the existing dual 7-segment display assembly. However, the OLED display WILL require a new front panel that is custom milled to fit the OLED display glass.  I debated putting the entire display behind the existing acrylic front panel but concluded that the loss in contrast, clarity and brightness was too big a price to pay. Coming up with just the right custom milling to perfectly fit the OLED display glass and supporting module was a PITA.

The OLED display will plug into existing V25 boards but will require a firmware update to be operational. A physical jumper (shunt) will also need to be added across a pair of pins on the J7 header to select OLED.

Regarding other stuff

With most everything mounted to a slide-in mounting board except the front/rear panels with our end-access-only extruded enclosure I rarely have wire breakage when opening/closing a unit. However, if you use really fine silver hookup wire or the like then it can get a lot easier to break a connection between the RCA/XLR jacks and input connection points.

The constant volume during balance adjustment is working well for the V25 board. Have not updated the V2 firmware with that yet but your note reminds me that I should get that done.

Yet again, you are witness to how the Tortuga LDR preamp gets out of the way of the music and imparts a light to non-existent footprint of its own to the sound.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: glynnw on 6 Feb 2018, 12:10 am
A while back I had to change my Tortuga display from blue to red because I could no longer read the blue numbers at a distance of 10 feet.  I searched the net and found this was common in many people as they age - there was even a name for this condition which I cannot recall.  Seriously, I will not be able to buy the new display because it will be too blurry for me to read unless I move up to a distance of a couple of feet.  Red works great for me.  I hate to complicate your life, but this is a serious issue for me.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 6 Feb 2018, 07:41 pm
A while back I had to change my Tortuga display from blue to red because I could no longer read the blue numbers at a distance of 10 feet.  I searched the net and found this was common in many people as they age - there was even a name for this condition which I cannot recall.  Seriously, I will not be able to buy the new display because it will be too blurry for me to read unless I move up to a distance of a couple of feet.  Red works great for me.  I hate to complicate your life, but this is a serious issue for me.

I do know what you mean about how the blue 7-segment displays can be hard for some to read easily. There's something about the blue LED color that can make them appear blurry even though they are objectively crisp and clear. In my opinion the blue OLED display do not exhibit this kind of blurring or if they do it's significantly less noticeable.

That said, the same model type OLED display can also be sourced in white or yellow (but not red). I think either of those alternative colors should work well. My guess is white (on black) will likely be the easiest to read.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: glynnw on 6 Feb 2018, 11:19 pm
Will we have an option at order time, or do you wish us to give you our ideas now so you can see if it is worthwhile for you to order more than the blue?  Does anyone have any experience with white vs yellow on a black background?  I got no idea which is easier to see.  And thanks, Morten, for taking me seriously about this.  Although I am generally a kook troublemaker, in this I am sincere.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 7 Feb 2018, 02:02 pm
Will we have an option at order time, or do you wish us to give you our ideas now so you can see if it is worthwhile for you to order more than the blue?  Does anyone have any experience with white vs yellow on a black background?  I got no idea which is easier to see.  And thanks, Morten, for taking me seriously about this.  Although I am generally a kook troublemaker, in this I am sincere.

Dear "kook troublemaker" (LOL!),

No final decision has been made (or needs to be made) on OLED color. I'm going to order a white version and compare it to the blue. Generally not a fan of yellow displays. Ideally I'll end up with a single color which is way easier to source/stock/manage but perhaps blue/white could be options. 

Always appreciate your input Glynn  :thumb:
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: MadKid on 8 Feb 2018, 10:50 am
Hi Morten glad to see things are being finalize and summing up. I've been waited long to integrate the balanced V25 boards with my AMB Beta 22 headamp / preamp. Simply can't live without a display lol.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: glynnw on 13 Feb 2018, 03:41 am
FWIW I just noticed my DAC has a white on black display and there is non of the blur that blue brings with it.  Just please make the numbers as big as they are currently so I can read them from my chair. - abt 11 feet away.  The DAC has several lines of data with such small white letters that I need to be about a foot from it to read them.  Guess they designed it while working with it on their workbench.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 13 Feb 2018, 02:25 pm
FWIW I just noticed my DAC has a white on black display and there is non of the blur that blue brings with it.  Just please make the numbers as big as they are currently so I can read them from my chair. - abt 11 feet away.  The DAC has several lines of data with such small white letters that I need to be about a foot from it to read them.  Guess they designed it while working with it on their workbench.

Readability from typical listening distance has been one of the key goals from the outset.

I evaluated several character based displays but found them all lacking in terms of having bright, clear, large fonts readable from up to 15-20 feet away. Going with a 1 inch tall OLED graphical display was the only type of display that addressed these objectives. The downside is that graphical displays are far more challenging to work with since you have to deal with each individual pixel and not pre-defined built-in characters/symbols. You would think the manufacturers of these displays would provide fully cooked ready-to-drop-in software code/tools but no such luck. As a result I had to create most of the low-level software routines from scratch which was very time consuming. That's all done now and the remaining work is all about refining the menu structure and integrating the controls/display with the existing code.

It's looking very good at this point with a March/April release likely.  :thumb:
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 27 Feb 2018, 01:42 am
I have the white OLED display in hand but am waiting for the updated interface board prototype to arrive from the fabricator. The interface board attaches to the OLED display and provides connection headers for ribbon cables to the V25 preamp controller board. Am using a slightly different model version of both the blue and the white OLED which unfortunately have a slightly different pin-out hence the need to update the interface board design. Should have the new interface board by next week and will be posting a brief video showing the new OLED display in operation.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 24 Mar 2018, 03:31 pm
I have the white OLED display in hand but am waiting for the updated interface board prototype to arrive from the fabricator. The interface board attaches to the OLED display and provides connection headers for ribbon cables to the V25 preamp controller board. Am using a slightly different model version of both the blue and the white OLED which unfortunately have a slightly different pin-out hence the need to update the interface board design. Should have the new interface board by next week and will be posting a brief video showing the new OLED display in operation.

I now have the white OLED display fully operational and after some further refinement of the graphic rendering engine code can report that the white display looks fantastic. The white on black contrast is excellent and while the 256x64 resolution of the display is far from the hi-rez we are used to from our smartphones and tablets, the OLED display is highly readable even from across the room and certainly at most listening distances.

I personally still like the cool look of blue displays but there's no argument that the white-on-black OLED is totally free of the optical "fuzz" that blue spectrum light creates.

At this point I think we'll be releasing the new display before the end of May.   :thumb:

The link below is to a VERY brief video of recent testing of the white display after updating the graphic rendering engine code which by the way I had to write from scratch. Unlike a character based display a graphic display requires everything to be shown as a graphic image be it a turtle or text so you have to control every pixel individually. This brief demo looks a bit washed out due to a poor manual exposure setting on the camera. Also the slight flickering is an artifact of the camera and not the display. The actual image is quite crisp with great constrast.

VERY brief OLED Display Demo: https://youtu.be/uYuSvU8D-jE (https://youtu.be/uYuSvU8D-jE)

I plan to post a more complete video of the OLED display in action later this weekend.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: glynnw on 24 Mar 2018, 05:13 pm
Thanks for listening to your customers.  I look forward to using this when completed.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display | Early Demo
Post by: tortugaranger on 30 Apr 2018, 12:56 am
It's been a long time in coming but here is an overview of the new OLED graphical display that will ship with our preamps starting later in May.

The video can be found here:  https://youtu.be/TWll71OEVM4 (https://youtu.be/TWll71OEVM4)

In the video the display is shown through a light gray acrylic lens that replace the dark gray lens currently used with our preamps with our existing 7-segment displays. The scrolling lines and such are artifacts of the phone's video camera. The OLED display is quite clear, bright and steady.

(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/remote_V25_oled_display_Rev1.jpg)
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: goofytwoshoes on 30 Apr 2018, 03:48 am
Gorgeous display!  Will I be able to buy this, and new faceplate etc., for the V25 that I assembled from a kit?
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 30 Apr 2018, 12:22 pm
Gorgeous display!  Will I be able to buy this, and new faceplate etc., for the V25 that I assembled from a kit?

In a word, yes. While we're still working out the details, owners of V25 based preamps will be able to retrofit the OLED display into their existing preamps using the same mounting bar after some modifications to same. The same front panel can be used although we recommend the acrylic inlay be replaced with a lighter shade of gray. Same applies to acrylic panels used in kits. Of course we'll also be offering this upgrade as a turnkey service including the required firmware update.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: Jens on 9 May 2018, 10:47 am
Hi Morten! The OLED display looks fabulous :) Very informational compared to today - good work!

As I have my Tortuga in a cupboard (and would like to keep it there), I plan to get an OLED display and mount it in a frame under the cupboard, which is hanging on the wall.

To do that, I would need a longer ribbon cable from the Tortuga to the display, say around a foot long.
Finally, any idea what the OLED display price will be yet?

Cheers,

Jens
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 9 May 2018, 02:25 pm
Hi Morten! The OLED display looks fabulous :) Very informational compared to today - good work!

As I have my Tortuga in a cupboard (and would like to keep it there), I plan to get an OLED display and mount it in a frame under the cupboard, which is hanging on the wall.

To do that, I would need a longer ribbon cable from the Tortuga to the display, say around a foot long.
  • Would the additional length cause any issues?
  • Could the infrared sensor stay in the Tortuga, or does it need to be in the OLED display assembly
Finally, any idea what the OLED display price will be yet?

Cheers,

Jens

While I'm not sure on the practical limits of cable length but I'm quite confident 1 foot cables would be no issue since I've already been using cables that long with prototypes/testing. The OLED data cable uses parallel communication (8 bits sent simultaneousy) so it's both very fast and far less susceptible to noise etc. compared to a serial data cable of comparable data speed.

The OLED display proper is mated to a Tortuga Audio OLED adapter/interface board. The adapter board has:  1) a 2x7 pin header for the parallel OLED display/power ribbon cable;  2) a 2x5 pin header for the IR/Encoder ribbon cable;  3) 1x4 pin header for interfacing the Encoder via its cable, and; 4) a 3 pin solder socket for attaching the IR receiver module.

You could connect the Encoder and IR Receiver directly to the V25 board and not to the OLED Adapter Board which would eliminate the secondary 2x5 pin ribbon cable to the OLED but it's usually more convenient to to interface these to the OLED Board.

OLED display pricing is still being finalized but is expected to come out somewhere between $100-200 including adapter board (already attached), both ribbon cables, and IR Receiver. I hope to have that finalized within the next few days.

Cheers,  :thumb:
Morten
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: jkoestner on 10 May 2018, 11:41 am
Morten,

Which display will have the largest volume readout in size? The OLED display is very nice, but will the digits be larger than the pair of numbers in the standard display?
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 10 May 2018, 06:19 pm
Morten,

Which display will have the largest volume readout in size? The OLED display is very nice, but will the digits be larger than the pair of numbers in the standard display?

Here you can see the 2 displays side by side (OLED is on and the 7-seg is off). The OLED screen is 0.85 by 3.2 inches whereas the fixed height 7 segment display numbers are only 0.57 inches tall. I'm using a large 48 point font for the volume display numerals which is just a tad bit larger than the 7 segment in height. The OLED also uses 3 other smaller fonts for other text/numbers.

The volume display number font size could be further increased but doing so would crowd out the volume bar and most other info. I'll wait and see how people react to the OLED display using this font size before changing anything.

When placed behind a gray acrylic lens the 7 segment is easier to see because it can burn brighter but the OLED is an overall better display for interacting with the remote control and in normal lighting situations is quite visible from a typical listening positioning.

(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/oled_vs_7seg_2.jpg)
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: MadKid on 22 May 2018, 07:23 pm
Hi Morten,

Personal I think the volume fonts are big enough to view at a distance, across the sitting room, with a restrained feel that would not catch focus while listening to music.

Will the display module being available for purchase anytime soon?

Ken
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 22 May 2018, 09:54 pm

Will the display module being available for purchase anytime soon?

Ken

Yes! Probably starting as soon as this weekend. We have around 90+ display units in stock. Finishing up the firmware has taken longer than I'd planned but that's par for the course. In addition to adding the OLED display we've also been doing numerous "under the hood" updates to the V25 firmware which is now 1 year old. Some of that work got way more involved than expected but it's essentially done and is now undergoing final testing and tweaking. Almost there!  :thumb:

Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: Jens on 23 May 2018, 11:44 am
It's looking great, Morten! And I want one  :D

Will you be sending out an email newsletter, or do we just watch this space for news?
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 23 May 2018, 12:47 pm
Will you be sending out an email newsletter, or do we just watch this space for news?


Both!  :thumb:
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 27 May 2018, 04:02 pm
The new OLED Display Module is now available for purchase by the DIY community. Over the next few days we'll also be announcing an upgrade program for owners of existing V2/V25 versions of Tortuga Audio preamps.

The OLED Display Module is a 256 x 64 pixcel white graphic OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) display for use with Tortuga Audio's LDR.V25 ("V25") LDR preamp controller board (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/diy-preamp-components/ldr-v25-preamp-controller/) including all V25 versions of Tortuga Audio preamps including kits.  (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/product-category/passive-preamps/)

The price for the OLED Display Module including control cables, installed IR receiver module and V25/OLED enable jumper is $149. Encoder with cable is optional since most existing owners of Tortuga Audio V25 preamps already have an encoder. We currently have over 90 units in stock.

The link to purchase the OLED display is here:  https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/diy-preamp-components/oled-display-module/ (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/diy-preamp-components/oled-display-module/)

The OLED display product  page on our website is still quite spartan. We'll be adding more information over the next several days. Here are some pics.

(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/OLED_with_cables.jpg)
(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/OLED_frontview.jpg)
(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/OLED_rearview.jpg)
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 30 May 2018, 09:00 pm
We've updated the information on the new OLED graphic display to include a detailed writeup on the initial release of the control menu structure which is shown below.

More info on the $149 OLED graphic display can be found here: https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/diy-preamp-components/oled-display-module/ (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/diy-preamp-components/oled-display-module/)

The same info can also be found in the online product documentation here: https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=oled-v25-display (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=oled-v25-display)

(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/OLED_V25_Controls_Rev0-16.png)
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: MadKid on 4 Jun 2018, 01:37 pm
Hi Morten,

Is the new firmware undergoing its final stage of development?
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 4 Jun 2018, 06:23 pm
Hi Morten,

Is the new firmware undergoing its final stage of development?


The OLED display has been released, we've shipped new preamps with the OLED display, and as such the updated OLED firmware is now in commercial release. I'll be adding the latest firmware version to the website later this week so those with existing V25 units can update their boards.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: Randy on 4 Jun 2018, 11:20 pm
Morten,
   I'm thinking owners of non DIY versions will have to send in their units for the new display install.  Right?  (I'm not in any hurry,  however.)

Randy
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 5 Jun 2018, 02:12 pm
Morten,
   I'm thinking owners of non DIY versions will have to send in their units for the new display install.  Right?  (I'm not in any hurry,  however.)

Randy

We've gone around the track several times on how best to approach this but after numerous prototypes we concluded that the right way to incorporate the new OLED display into both existing and new preamps is to:

1) machine a new pocket on the back side of the existing front panels
2) expoxy the new display in place into that pocket using a small amount of epoxy glue in each of the 4 corners of the main OLED board
3) remove and replace the existing dark acrylic front panel inlay with a less dark acrylic front panel inlay for better visibility
4) re-orient the IR receiver module attached to the OLED display into a vertical position in order to get clear view into room
5) add the OLED enabling jumper to the V25 board
6) load the OLED enabling firmware into the V25 board
7) add the new 2x7 OLED control cable
8 ) if required, replace the shorter existing 2x5 display cable with a longer version
9) attach the existing encoder control cable to the OLED display adapter board
10) remove and discard the existing display mounting board (existing preamps)

Given the above steps, the only practical way to handle upgrading existing V25 based preamps (or upgrading V2 to V25) with an OLED display is to ship the unit here and have us do the conversion work. We'll be adding that as an upgrade service soon.

Best,
Morten :thumb:
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 5 Jun 2018, 07:58 pm
Just posted a new article on the story behind the new OLED Display. Some light reading for the inquisitive.  :thumb:

Getting The OLED Out - https://www.tortugaaudio.com/getting-the-oled-out/ (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/getting-the-oled-out/)
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: Randy on 5 Jun 2018, 11:55 pm
We've gone around the track several times on how best to approach this but after numerous prototypes we concluded that the right way to incorporate the new OLED display into both existing and new preamps is to:

1) machine a new pocket on the back side of the existing front panels
2) expoxy the new display in place into that pocket using a small amount of epoxy glue in each of the 4 corners of the main OLED board
3) remove and replace the existing dark acrylic front panel inlay with a less dark acrylic front panel inlay for better visibility
4) re-orient the IR receiver module attached to the OLED display into a vertical position in order to get clear view into room
5) add the OLED enabling jumper to the V25 board
6) load the OLED enabling firmware into the V25 board
7) add the new 2x7 OLED control cable
8 ) if required, replace the shorter existing 2x5 display cable with a longer version
9) attach the existing encoder control cable to the OLED display adapter board
10) remove and discard the existing display mounting board (existing preamps)

Given the above steps, the only practical way to handle upgrading existing V25 based preamps (or upgrading V2 to V25) with an OLED display is to ship the unit here and have us do the conversion work. We'll be adding that as an upgrade service soon.

Best,
Morten :thumb:

Thanks, Morten. From what I had read about it from your postings, that's about what I figured.  I hope it's not as complicated as it sounds.

Randy
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 12 Jun 2018, 01:46 pm
Existing owners of Totuga Audio V2 and V25 passive preamps can now opt to have their preamps upgraded with the OLED display. Because this upgrade requires the machining of the backside of existing aluminum front panels, it will require that the preamp be shipped back to us for this upgrade service.

Here are the links:

OLED upgrade for V25 preamps:  https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/services/v25-oled-display-upgrade-service/ (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/services/v25-oled-display-upgrade-service/)

OLED upgrade for V2 preamps requires a combination of upgrading to the V25 plus OLED: https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/services/v25-preamp-upgrade-service/ (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/services/v25-preamp-upgrade-service/)
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: Jens on 24 Jun 2018, 08:59 pm
Hi Morten,

My OLED display arrived safely today  :)

I hope to start installing it soon - however the new firmware seems not to be available yet. The Tortuga homepage says ** Will be available soon **. When is "soon"?

Jens
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 25 Jun 2018, 01:13 pm
Hi Morten,

My OLED display arrived safely today  :)

I hope to start installing it soon - however the new firmware seems not to be available yet. The Tortuga homepage says ** Will be available soon **. When is "soon"?

Jens

We had tested the firmware with new builds but then found some initialization issues when existing V25's were updated with the new firmware. Those problems were ironed out over the weekend. Doing some final checks this morning and if all goes well, the firmware will be posted on the website for download later today.  :thumb:
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: Jens on 25 Jun 2018, 02:22 pm
We had tested the firmware with new builds but then found some initialization issues when existing V25's were updated with the new firmware. Those problems were ironed out over the weekend. Doing some final checks this morning and if all goes well, the firmware will be posted on the website for download later today.  :thumb:

Hi Morten,

Always better to be safe than sorry - and much appreciated that you don't release until the worst 'kinks' are out :wink:

I just didn't want to start opening up my Tortuga until everything was ready and was slightly baffled because I was under the impression that the firmware was already released (I guess it may have been, didn't check till yesterday).

Just to be on the safe side, I will install the new firmware before doing anything else  :)

Jens
 
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 25 Jun 2018, 02:45 pm
I just didn't want to start opening up my Tortuga until everything was ready and was slightly baffled because I was under the impression that the firmware was already released (I guess it may have been, didn't check till yesterday).
Jens

We had released the firmware in new builds where we initialize new empty V25 boards with no existing firmware or stored history. That was going smoothly enough even though there are always a bunch of firmware improvements and bug fixes to be taken care of early on with any new release. Then we realized we'd overlooked a couple of key things that applied only when updating existing V25 boards that were not being initialized for the first time. That's now been resolved.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 25 Jun 2018, 03:12 pm
The latest V25/OLED firmware has been posted for download and is applicable to all V25 boards regardless of display type.

https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=v25-firmware-updatesdownloads (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=v25-firmware-updatesdownloads)
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: TheMonkey on 24 Jul 2018, 01:28 pm
Hi all!

I think its a very nice upgrade to the new OLED screens! I ordered a screen about two weeks ago and it arrived the other day.
I have now installed it and loaded it up with the new firmware (rev209) and it worked straight away :) It's looking very nice!

However, I'm having one BIG problem :(   Please help!

Background noise/hiss. It's not there when switched off, dead silent like it should be.
When powered on it's either quite loud or quite silent. Whenever I enter the menu it's always a loud hiss. When going back to the volume control most of times it goes back to a small background noise (still a lot higher than with the 7 segment display), but sometimes the loud hiss stays and then it usually gets less intensive from adjusting the volume but not always.

Info about my setup:
   V25 in a balanced configuration (2 balanced in, 1 single ended in, 1 balanced out)
   Power amp with plenty of power (that's why even the quite silent hiss is bothering me)
   DAC with xlr

What I have tried so far:
   Disconnected all cables, plugged some back in, skipped the preamp - identifying the preamp as the cause of hiss.
   Factory Reset
   Power on power off
   Kill the power
   (Many) AutoCals (finishing without any problems, also making sure the preamps been on to stabilize temperature)
   Swapped LDRs

On some of the AutoCals the hiss started on one specific LDR (usually between steps 30-80). I did replace those specific LDRs but results are the same.
I don't think any of the LDRs are causing any problems (since it worked fine before), I think the screen/firmware is. When entering the menu the loud hiss always starts.
One more thing, the loud hiss is following the volume, well kind of at least.
First off, mute is not working, volume 1 is like a middle hiss, on volume 2 the hiss is loud and increasing between volume 2-60, between 60-100 the hiss is decreasing, on full volume the hiss is almost as low as on volume 1 (middle hiss.)

I'm not sure how to proceed. Any ideas?

Many thanks!
 / Simon
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 24 Jul 2018, 02:00 pm
Hi all!

I think its a very nice upgrade to the new OLED screens! I ordered a screen about two weeks ago and it arrived the other day.
I have now installed it and loaded it up with the new firmware (rev209) and it worked straight away :) It's looking very nice!

However, I'm having one BIG problem :(   Please help!

Background noise/hiss. It's not there when switched off, dead silent like it should be.
When powered on it's either quite loud or quite silent. Whenever I enter the menu it's always a loud hiss. When going back to the volume control most of times it goes back to a small background noise (still a lot higher than with the 7 segment display), but sometimes the loud hiss stays and then it usually gets less intensive from adjusting the volume but not always.

Info about my setup:
   V25 in a balanced configuration (2 balanced in, 1 single ended in, 1 balanced out)
   Power amp with plenty of power (that's why even the quite silent hiss is bothering me)
   DAC with xlr

What I have tried so far:
   Disconnected all cables, plugged some back in, skipped the preamp - identifying the preamp as the cause of hiss.
   Factory Reset
   Power on power off
   Kill the power
   (Many) AutoCals (finishing without any problems, also making sure the preamps been on to stabilize temperature)
   Swapped LDRs

On some of the AutoCals the hiss started on one specific LDR (usually between steps 30-80). I did replace those specific LDRs but results are the same.
I don't think any of the LDRs are causing any problems (since it worked fine before), I think the screen/firmware is. When entering the menu the loud hiss always starts.
One more thing, the loud hiss is following the volume, well kind of at least.
First off, mute is not working, volume 1 is like a middle hiss, on volume 2 the hiss is loud and increasing between volume 2-60, between 60-100 the hiss is decreasing, on full volume the hiss is almost as low as on volume 1 (middle hiss.)

I'm not sure how to proceed. Any ideas?

Many thanks!
 / Simon

I will give this some thought but 2 3 initial comments:

1) We have NEVER had ANY noise with the OLED display EVER during development or in our production preamps. By comparison the 7-segment display was noisy and we had to add suppression filters to eliminate it.

2) Since your preamp is a DIY unit I'd bet you all the beer you can drink in one evening that it's somehow related to grounding. Even more likely because yours is a balanced system.

3) Mute does work insofar as it mutes the audio signal volume but mute is unlikely to mute noise related to grounding.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: TheMonkey on 24 Jul 2018, 06:57 pm
I will give this some thought but 2 3 initial comments:

1) We have NEVER had ANY noise with the OLED display EVER during development or in our production preamps. By comparison the 7-segment display was noisy and we had to add suppression filters to eliminate it.

2) Since your preamp is a DIY unit I'd bet you all the beer you can drink in one evening that it's somehow related to grounding. Even more likely because yours is a balanced system.

3) Mute does work insofar as it mutes the audio signal volume but mute is unlikely to mute noise related to grounding.

Thanks for your reply Morten! You are probably right about the grounding, I've been thinking the same it's just that I haven't changed much when it comes to the grounding.

Since I was going to upgrade to the new screen I thought I would skip the double outputs for a single ended in instead (for a phono stage).
I did this change before the OLED came and it was working fine but you are probably right about the grounding it's just that I don't find where the problem is.

I have now resoldered all the star-ground, all the solder for wires on the V25s and I have added extra wires to the 4th pin (chassis pin) on the XLRs for extra grounding as well. It is still the same.

However, I think I've narrowed it down. After doing a reset and then a CAL, the hiss is introduced when doing the "vref" on LDR 3.
Does that tell you where the problem/bad grounding is?

Thanks!
 / Simon
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 24 Jul 2018, 08:05 pm
Thanks for your reply Morten! You are probably right about the grounding, I've been thinking the same it's just that I haven't changed much when it comes to the grounding.

Since I was going to upgrade to the new screen I thought I would skip the double outputs for a single ended in instead (for a phono stage).
I did this change before the OLED came and it was working fine but you are probably right about the grounding it's just that I don't find where the problem is.

I have now resoldered all the star-ground, all the solder for wires on the V25s and I have added extra wires to the 4th pin (chassis pin) on the XLRs for extra grounding as well. It is still the same.

However, I think I've narrowed it down. After doing a reset and then a CAL, the hiss is introduced when doing the "vref" on LDR 3.
Does that tell you where the problem/bad grounding is?

Thanks!
 / Simon

I recommend you NOT have your amps turned on or have any interconnects connected to the preamp at all when running calibration until you've resolved the noise problem during normal volume control operation. Whatever the root cause of the noise it's highly unlikely to have anything to do with calibration or the primary LDRs themselves. Doing resets isn't going to help either since all that really does is empty out the calibration tables, reinitialize a few variables and chew up your time. Once you've run cal 1-2 times with the preamp isolated at the default #1/20k setting, only then reconnect you ICs and turn amps on etc.

I also recommend you review the recommended balanced wiring section within the online kit assembly instructions that can be found here:  https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=kit-assembly-instructions-oled (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=kit-assembly-instructions-oled)  I realize you had it all working before without any noise which makes diagnosing this challenging. I'm at a loss to explain any hissing related to the OLED display since we have literally never had any noise problems with the OLED display installed. That is not to say your hiss/noise isn't real, only that we have zero history diagnosing/resolving OLED related noise.

With everything hooked up,  powered up, turned on and with noise present I suggest you do the following. First disconnect the encoder from the OLED display module and note any change, next disconnect the smaller 2x5 pin cable from the V25.J3 header and note any change - this cable is only for conveying the encoder signals and the IR receiver signals to the V25 board. Last but not least pull the 2x7 cable from the V25.J9 header which disconnects the OLED control/data signals completely.

I had one DIY customer with balanced system connected to old existing 3rd party preamp tube buffer. He had  hum hum and more hum which was eventually traced to a ground loop caused by the tube preamp circuit board. After cutting a trace on both channels of the tube buffer PCB the hum totally disappeard. Took weeks to diagnose and resolve. Noise/hum can be very challenging.
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: glynnw on 12 May 2020, 10:25 pm
Morten - Can you post a picture of the new OLED display as it will display when the signal is sent to either channel through use of the balance control.  In my older one I get a digital readout of each channel all the time and it is easy for me to see how the balance is adjusted.  Let's say the old method would display   44 41.  What would this look like on the new OLED?
Title: Re: V25 OLED Display
Post by: tortugaranger on 13 May 2020, 01:39 pm
Morten - Can you post a picture of the new OLED display as it will display when the signal is sent to either channel through use of the balance control.  In my older one I get a digital readout of each channel all the time and it is easy for me to see how the balance is adjusted.  Let's say the old method would display   44 41.  What would this look like on the new OLED?

This example shows the nominal volume at step 41 but the channel balance is shifted +4 steps to the right. If the balance were shifted left the "4" would be on the left side of the display. For the V25 that's 4 steps at ~0.6 dB per step. When channel balance is neutral the balance number (zero) is not visible. Max channel balance steps is 20 left or right (12 dB).

In order to maintain overall actual volume level as the channel balance shifts left or right what happens under the hood is for every other step (an even step), the opposite channel will go down one. Hence channel balance is actually a channel volume difference at a given average volume level. To illustrate, see the following table for the +4 case

Master volume - 41

Balance Adjustment     Left Vol      Right Vol
             0                     41              41
             +1R                 41              42
             +2R                 40              42
             +3R                 40              43
             +4R                 39              43

(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/oled_channel_balance.jpg)