[WillyP]

This is a thread with many, extensive replies, so I think it is time for a recapitulation. We are talking about handshake issues with my SP3, which are very irritating.

We have an AV cabinet, that was specially made for us and which we like very much. It has room for six devices and has six power outlets. It is for this reason that I am looking for an easy solution, without too many complications.

Old situation:

Blu-ray player -> HDMI -> Bryston SP3 -> HDMI-> TV

+ best audio quality
+ plays SACD layer of SACD’s

- issues with handshake

New situation

Blu-ray player -> HDMI -> TV

Blu-ray player -> coax -> Bryston SP3

+ no handshake issues so far

- in theory, not the best audio quality
- only plays CD layer of SACD’s

Optional

Blu-ray player -> HDMI -> TV

Blu-ray player -> HDMI -> Bryston SP3 -> HDMI dummy plug

This is possible because my Blu ray-player has two HDMI ports for output.

In all cases (HDMI and coax) audio is sent in Bitstream format.

I will try the new situation for about a month, to see what I like best. At this moment, I would say that having no handshake issues is more important for me than a slight loss in audio quality.

Kind regards,

WillyP

[witchdoctor]

Makes sense to run the HDMI to the TV and coax to the BDP3.
WillyP if I were in your shoes I would ditch surround and upgrade to immersive audio. The SP4 is $$$$ but there are plenty of threads here to discuss less expensive alternatives. Technology has come a loooong way since the SP3 was introduced and it may be time for a refresh. Make sure you get all 3 codecs, Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro 3D.

[WillyP]

Witchdoctor, my wife will kill me for that! No doubt about it. Don't get me wrong, she allowed me to have a very nice setup, but more than 5.1 is a no-no, also because our living room is not very big. That is why I opted for the best 5.1 configuration I could afford and - apart from the issues we are talking about - I am very pleased about it. The SP3 is two years old and I would lose a lot of money when I had to sell it now.

Another thing to consider is that the prices for Bryston are in Europe much higher. An SP4, for example, will cost you about 22.5000 USD.

Most of the time I am listening to 2-channel music and the Bryston is perfect for that and I have no intention to buy another pre-pro. I was well aware of its limitations when I bought it, so I am not complaining.

WillyP

[Phil A]

Willy, if the Blu-Ray player has analog outs, you can just run a set of cables to another input on the SP3 to hear the SACD layer (of course you'll be using the DACs from the player).  If the player set-up menu allows one to toggle on and off (the manual would imply that you can toggle the primary HDMI output to either 1 or 2) things you probably can also run an HDMI cable from the second HDMI out of the player to another HDMI input on the SP3 to listen to SACDs.  With the Oppo players, one can convert DSD to 24/88.2 so you can try to see if there are setting for PCM conversion.  Also, if you can get an HDMI de-embedder that is returnable, you can give that a try.

[Phil A]

Also, don't forget to follow the instructions for HDMI on page 26 of the SP3 manual.  It's probably also possible to play media (e.g. hi-rez files) via the USB input.  Yes, it means getting those SACDs converted to files but it can be done.

[WillyP]

...
Also, if you can get an HDMI de-embedder that is returnable, you can give that a try.

What is the main function of the HDMI audio de-embedder? Improve handshake between the source and the pre/pro? Or better sound quality via the audio output of the de-embedder?

WillyP

[witchdoctor]

I already recommended the Essence DAC which will extract the audio via HDMI:

I powered up the Essence Evolve II-4K HDMI DAC with its only control set to LPCM 7.1 CH and confirmed that the video was passing through to the pre-pro via HDMI. To hear the output of this little DAC, all I had to do was switch the pre-pro to the analog 7.1 input. Even more amazing is that Qobuz, Roon, and JRiver all recognized its presence as Extractor, capable of exclusive mode (WASAPI) audio in multichannel at up to 24/192

I was skeptical enough to be surprised that the Extractor worked so well—but I was stunned that it sounded so good. How good? I liked it better than sending the audio via HDMI through the Marantz and its DACs. It seemed just noticeably cleaner and more open. Perhaps a little bright, but not to any great detriment. Compared to HDMI or network input to the Altitude 32, though, it didn't quite make the grade.

You say you want more for your money? (Cue the carnival barkers!) Well, step right up: You don't even need a fancy 4K display, or any display at all, to use the Essence Evolve II-4K HDMI DAC . . . er, Extractor. I took it back to my New York apartment and hooked it up to the second HDMI port on my Baetis Prodigy-X server. Since the main HDMI out is connected to the 27" system monitor, I didn't want to mess with it, even though that meant the Extractor would not have anything connected to its HDMI output. Now, in the weird and wonderful world of HDMI, there is handshaking between devices that allows them to function compatibly. This handshaking is an EDID (Extended Display Identification Data) code informing the source of the target device's capabilities. This smart little processor actually has the ability to generate an EDID6 that tells the source that a hi-rez display with multichannel audio is connected. To fool the source, just keep the switch to the far right.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-98-trinnov-altitude-32-essence-evolve-ii-4k-page-2

[Phil A]

What is the main function of the HDMI audio de-embedder? Improve handshake between the source and the pre/pro? Or better sound quality via the audio output of the de-embedder?

WillyP

The thread I posted previously is super long and old.  Basically, it was designed for people who had players for SACD for instance which could take 24/88.2 or PCM up to 192 out of a player designed more for video and pass it on to DAC via coax (and they have 5.1 pass thrus for HT).  There's a review here that sort of sums it up - http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/2013/01/audiophile-review-oppo-bdp-105.html   There's also info on the Essence noted in the post above here - https://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/product/hdacc-ii-4k/   On my 4k set-up my mini PC just bit the dust (for the 2nd time and I'm leaving it) and for now I have the coax coming out of my Oppo 203 into my Teac UD-501 DAC and I also have HDMI going out to the receiver and then from the receiver to the TV.  Due to the fact the TV needs a handshake I could either disconnect the HDMI cable from the back of the Oppo (it's not horrible to get to) but I usually just turn the TV volume all the way down and the analog left and right channel of the DAC goes into a 2-channel preamp (that has HT Bypass for movies) on a different input from the Bypass one.  As I noted earlier you probably can get 24/88.2 (?) from an SACD out of the player and then just go into the player setting (since it is difficult to get to the back of your equipment) and turn off HDMI audio (from the player menu) when you listen to an SACD.

[WillyP]

After some fiddling with the cables, I have made a combination of the old and the new situation. It is now possible to compare the video and the audio quality of the different options. My Primare BD32 Blu-ray player has two HDMI outputs: HDMI 1 can be configured for video only and HDMI 2 is for audio and video.

Option 1:

BD32 -> HDMI 2 -> Bryston SP3 -> HDMI-> TV

Option 2:

BD32 -> HDMI 1 -> TV

BD32 -> coax -> Bryston SP3

Until now I have made the following observations.

The audio quality (when the SP3 has locked successfully!) with option 1 is better than with option 2. This means that my old ears can hear the differences between DTS-Core and DTSHD-MA of a Blu-ray. Not very big, but they can easily be heard.

The video quality with option 2 is better than with option 1. It could be because I am using the better HDMI cable in option 2 (at the moment I don’t have enough HDMI cables of the same quality, I need three of them and they are not cheap). It is also possible that there is a difference in video quality between the HDMI 1 and 2 ports of the BD32. In the manual HDMI 1 is recommended for video. Perhaps changing the cables gives more info on this, but as have told before, this is not an easy task.

The question is, of course, what do I prefer? Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so I decided to give both options a try. I have watched The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey with both options and I asked myself, what did I enjoy most? Without doubt, that was the option with the better video quality and the audio quality that was slightly less.

It may be possible to improve the audio quality in option 2 but then another round of fiddling with the cables is necessary and I can’t say I am looking forward to doing that. I am now using a coax cable between the BD32 and the SP3 but I also have an AES/EBU cable with even better quality. In this situation, an A/B comparison is not possible so I am a bit undecided if it is worth the trouble.

I also have a dedicated CD player and of course, I made another comparison. What will give the better sound quality of an SACD, the 2-channel layer when played with my BD32, which can play the 2-channel and multichannel layers of an SACD, or the CD layer of my CD player. I have tested a few SACD’s only, but the BD32 won. With CD’s the outcome is the opposite, the CD player won. That is why I bought the CD player in the first place.

WillyP

[Grit]

What inputs/outputs (1-7 / 1-2) are you using on the SP-3?

[WillyP]

The Blu-ray player is connected to the HDMI-1 input (also to the D1 input); the TV is connected to the HDMI-1 output of the SP3.

WillyP

[Grit]

If you're using the upgraded 4K HDMI board, use HDMI inputs 5-7 and see if that makes a difference in picture quality.

Even if it is the original board, give it a go and try HDMI 7 or 8

[WillyP]

Hello, Grit, thanks for the answer. My SP3 has the 4K HDMI board. I have waited for almost a year for the new board to arrive. What makes you think that HDMI ports 5-7 can make a difference?

It would have been more comfortable for me if the inputs of the SP3 were numbered - instead of labelled - with the option to give the names in software.

WillyP