AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Tyson on 3 Jan 2020, 04:27 am
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=202765)
Preamble
Had a chance to visit Danny recently and spent a few days listening to ALL the most recent OB offerings and thought I'd write up separate reviews for each of them. This review is for the Line Force line array speakers.
Initial Impressions
OK, the main event. This speaker is the bigger brother to my favorite speaker of all time - the incredible Super 7 which I have at home. How will they compare? Hint - I wish I had a lot more $$ to spend on new speakers.....
Listening Notes
I'll just state flat out that this is the best speaker I've heard in my life. And not by a little. It beats my prior reference (the Super 7) in every area I can think of. And in some areas it best the Super 7 by a LOT. So the bar has been moved, the state of the art re-defined. At least for me. There were a few characteristics that really stood out that made this speaker special, IMO.
First is the imaging. I rarely use the term "holographic" when talking about a speaker because that term never applies. I've never heard a speaker that is truly holographic. Until now.
Next is scale. The ability of this speaker to scale up to a massive presentation was jaw dropping. But that wasn't the best part. No, the BEST part is that while it's going hell bent for leather, there's still a beauty, a delicacy to the sound that most speakers never attain period, let alone when going at full cry.
Finally, power. The sense of effortless power, especially in the lower mids and upper bass is finally at "best in the world level". That's the one area where my Super 7's fall down - they are good there but not world class. The Line Force just tosses off big male vocals like it's nothing. Thrown in the perfect integration with the servo sub bass and we're talking a speaker that top to bottom has no weaknesses.
OK, now I'm officially ruined. Half of me wishes I'd never heard the the damned things because I cannot get their sound out of my head now.
And, like the NX-Treme and the NX-Ottica Towers, the Line Force should not be run without the servo controlled open baffle subs.
Amplifier note - finally my poor First Watt BA3 has a chance to shine! We found the BA3 to be a much better match to the planar midrange on this speaker than the Elekit Japan 300b amp. Weird, right? But there it is.
Edit to add: And lest you think I am crazy or biased, here is a link to the recent visit by New Record Day to GR Research where they talk about this speaker in detail and confirm everything I heard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgoR2PLEZsk
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The best speakers for me have usually been tall open baffles. I hope Danny is able to make this as affordable as possible so we mere mortals will be able to own them one day.
Rocket Ronny
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I would have to agree with your assessment Tyson, I heard the first set a little over 3 years ago and couldn't get the sound out of my head. Fortunately I was able to get down to Danny's ~ a month ago to hear the new version with the composite cabinets as well as the upgraded x-overs, truly world class, I might have to build a set??
Don
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Thank you Tyson for all your reviews today - this was incredibly helpful!!
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I got to hear the originals at Danny's also and everything Tyson says is fact, not hyperbole.
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"OK, now I'm officially ruined. Half of me wishes I'd never heard the the damned things because I cannot get their sound out of my head now. "
That was my experience as well. But there is good news. Your Super 7's will start to sound awesome again... in time.
I like how you mentioned power. They have the detail of the Sevens but more, the power of the LS9s but more, and just an accuracy and ease regardless of the music type or venue. Your evaluation is spot on. I've never heard anything like them.
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:D. So what do they cost ? :D
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:D. So what do they cost ? :D
Mucho.
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Resized, clarified (too dark to see dtails) and optimized
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/GR-Research-Line-Force-resized.jpg)
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Tyson,
Thanks for the review. Looking forward to hearing these some day. I've listened to the NX Otica's with triple 12 inch OB sub pair numerous times on various amplifiers as well.
Best,
Anand.
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Mucho.
Can you define exactly what that is?
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Can you define exactly what that is?
I can't - Danny will have to say.
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Do you know approximately what the crossover point is to the OB subs?
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Do you know approximately what the crossover point is to the OB subs?
Pretty sure it's 200hz just like the Super 7.
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Tyson,
Question for you.. and maybe Danny will need to weigh in too.
Before my speaker search lead me to GR, I was talking to a manufacturer of speakers and he was telling me about this weird effect that sometimes happens.
He said that with speakers that are really tall ( ala Maggies + others ), you can get this weird presentation effect "where the mouths of the singers seem 6ft tall"
(In quotes but I'm paraphrasing from memory).
I was wondering if you encountered any of this with the Line forces?
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Tyson,
Question for you.. and maybe Danny will need to weigh in too.
Before my speaker search lead me to GR, I was talking to a manufacturer of speakers and he was telling me about this weird effect that sometimes happens.
He said that with speakers that are really tall ( ala Maggies + others ), you can get this weird presentation effect "where the mouths of the singers seem 6ft tall"
(In quotes but I'm paraphrasing from memory).
I was wondering if you encountered any of this with the Line forces?
Nope, not even once. Everything was life sized just like it's supposed to be.
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Tyson,
Question for you.. and maybe Danny will need to weigh in too.
Before my speaker search lead me to GR, I was talking to a manufacturer of speakers and he was telling me about this weird effect that sometimes happens.
He said that with speakers that are really tall ( ala Maggies + others ), you can get this weird presentation effect "where the mouths of the singers seem 6ft tall"
In my experience that has a lot more to do with the recording than the speakers.
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I'm also wondering if it has a lot to do with there being physically separate speakers being used as one speaker. They are segmented out and acting as one vs one actual tall driver per say.
Cool. Thanks all!
:thumb:
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The Line Force speaker has been my reference since Scott and I heatd them at Dannys ld room.. Tyson now understands the listening experience with them. It bests my memory of hearing the IRS Reference V speakers in a large room.
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Now that is saying something.
Rocket Ronny
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Are the drivers available today ? Are those Duelund crossover parts or Danny's ? Thanks.
charles
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Thanks for the reviews Tyson, I’ve not heard these but sat in several rooms you were in at a couple of RMAF’s so I know your listening experiences. Would love to know the cost and they look like they have a high WAF (the subs mine would just have to live with)
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I talked to Danny... Sounds like kits are going to be around $12k
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IIRC, when these [Line Force] were going to be offered by Serenity the 1st time around [before the Christy Digital acquisition of BG] the estimated or target price for them [with two stacks of OB triple 12s] was going to be in the $40-50K range. Who knows what if any bearing that will have on what they will cost now.
If mentioning this is out of line, forgive me, and I will gladly remove it if desired.
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I can't - Danny will have to say.
Well, what's the plan Danny?
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BG Neo 10's have not been available since last summer. I have been working on a new Neo 10 since about that time.
I have had several sets of samples sent over for evaluation, but they have not made the cut yet. I am currently awaiting a new set of samples as per my latest requirements.
Until there is in house stock of drivers these great designs will continue to be unavailable.
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When these do become available, how large of a space do you think they could adequately fill? I have an interesting business idea that would need a truly remarkable sound system to succeed.
I would obviously need to add servo subs to taste, but..
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I talked to Danny... Sounds like kits are going to be around $12k
Is that just the drivers and the crossovers? Or is that the baffles as well? The servos are separate?
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Looking forward to notification as to when these become available.
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Is that just the drivers and the crossovers? Or is that the baffles as well? The servos are separate?
That was the price of just the cabinets for the Line Forces and the basic parts (no upgrades). That doesn't include the servo subs. And i don't know what I'll have to pay for the new Neo 10's if I can get them built correctly. So it could be higher than that.
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Is that just the drivers and the crossovers? Or is that the baffles as well? The servos are separate?
That is an estimate of the Line Force / Super LS kit which will include the composite cabinets. Subs are separate but we've got cabinet kits available for them as well. Danny's got the driver/amp kits for the subs available on the GR Research website.
jay
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Are the drivers available today ? Are those Duelund crossover parts or Danny's ? Thanks.
charles
Charles, those are the new copper caps Danny is carrying.
jay
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Thanks Jay, thought so just wanted to make sure so everyone was aware of that. Everything makes a difference.
charles
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Particularly those caps which have made a profound difference to Jay's Super 7's
Don
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Question for Danny, or anyone else who would know.
In a line source, as you go higher, or lower, along the speaker height the drivers get farther away from the ear. With the Line Force this might be as much as 6” if you had them close, 7 feet away. You would think this would really affect performance in frequency response - which can be designed for, but it’s the smearing of the initial attack and coherence I wonder about.
Has anyone tried phisically time aligning a line source? That would mean aligning the drivers along the ear to speaker radius? If so, did it make a big difference? How did the back wave hitting the floor and ceiling affect things? Thanks.
Rocket Ronny
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Question for Danny, or anyone else who would know.
In a line source, as you go higher, or lower, along the speaker height the drivers get farther away from the ear. With the Line Force this might be as much as 6” if you had them close, 7 feet away. You would think this would really affect performance in frequency response - which can be designed for, but it’s the smearing of the initial attack and coherence I wonder about.
Has anyone tried phisically time aligning a line source? That would mean aligning the drivers along the ear to speaker radius? If so, did it make a big difference? How did the back wave hitting the floor and ceiling affect things? Thanks.
Rocket Ronny
What happens when you move the mic up or down (or your ear) is that you get little +/-2db ripples across the top end. Changing height changes the location of the peaks and dips, but a constant average is maintained.
It does not cause a smearing effect.
Physically aligning the drivers does not work out very well as it will only align them to one point in space (a small one). And then if the distance changes or vertical height changes then it throws everything off.
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Thanks for that explanation.
So is Wilson wasting their time with their adjustable time alignment?
Would you say the Mini's and Line Force offer an ultra transparent window into the music?
And, what are the minimum distances from the two speakers recommended. Thanks
Rocket Ronny
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Thanks for that explanation.
Would you say the Mini's and Line Force offer an ultra transparent window into the music?
And, what are the minimum distances from the two speakers recommended. Thanks
Rocket Ronny
I tested the Super Mini re: how close you could get - it was about 3 feet, then the imaging broke up.
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The rule of thumb for a line array is that you need to be at least the length of the line array away from the speaker for good sound. More distance is better.
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Thanks guys.
I have heard great results with 8' tall Acoustat 1+1s at 6 feet away.
Rocket Ronny
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Wilson doesn't make line source speakers. The multiple drivers in a line array act as a line source as long as the acoustic centers of the drivers are close enough which they are in the Line Force. A line source behaves differently than multiple point sources. The wavefront from a transient signal propagates as a line in the vertical direction (assuming you are measuring/listening more-or-less from the middle of the line array) instead of as a cone like you'd get from a point source.
Wilson does time alignment between drivers operating across multiple frequency ranges, all acting as point sources. This helps ensure that signals from two drivers that are covering the same range near their crossover point are arriving at the same time which provides a smoother frequency response and eliminates any time smearing.
On the Line Force, this would be analogous to lining up the wavefront from the tweeter array with the mid-range array (by looking at the impulse response from the two driver arrays) which can be done with crossover design and fine tuning by adjusting toe-in.
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Thanks Jaytor.
Yes, I know Wilson does not make Line Source speakers. But the do offer physical time alignment adjustment on some models.
I know in practice, ie: listening to line sources that distance differential of the speaker to the ear doesn’t sound like initial attack is smeared,etc, but was wondering why is all.
Thanks for sharing.
Rocket Ronny
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Line Array speakers create a cylindrical wavefront that is entirly different to a point source speaker. It only looses 3db with distance doubling. Energizes the room and listening position like a wall of air not an expanding sphere. Best in room response of any speaker I have heard. Why I built a 6x12 ob servo sub to go with my speakers.
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this is the best speaker I've heard in my life. And not by a little.
Tyson. Would that also include:
-GT Audio Works Planars. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7UrZTATLStM
-Leonardo Planars https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=si5xObVKkBA
-Alsyvox Tintoretto https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yjWK8u02Mfg
Rocket Ronny
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Tyson. Would that also include:
-GT Audio Works Planars. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7UrZTATLStM
-Leonardo Planars https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=si5xObVKkBA
-Alsyvox Tintoretto https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yjWK8u02Mfg
Rocket Ronny
Yes. The Super 7 is better than those speakers, which makes the Lineforce MUCH better than them.
The only thing I've heard in the past few years that's even close to the Super 7 is the large King Sound planar magnetic speakers. If the King Sound speakers had used a better bass solution, they might have even surpassed the Super 7. But again, nothing really has come close to the Lineforce, IME.
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Where did you audition the GTA3.1R speakers with bass towers? I don’t recall ever seeing them in any RMAF show reports. In what way do the Super-7s better their performance?
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GT audio has showed a few times over the years, but not with those base towers. Looks like Dannys subs to me.
I would be interested in what ways the Super 7s were better as well. They all have the ribbon, or planer, behind 3/4" thick baffle like the Apogees did. I found their imaging to be, individual images big and flat. I think due to diffraction.
The King is an electrostatic. I heard the King Prince and was shocked at how transparent a window into the sound they had. Best electrostat I heard that way, although it had other big limiting issues, such as power needed, danger of pannel arcing, ultimate volume, bass suckout at 200 hz, etc. This transparency into the sound is what I hope Danny's Mini or LS can do, but don't know.
Rocket Ronny
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The Inner Sound OB subs are Danny's design. Except enclosure finish. For a LOT less money from Danny. 23K for GTA now. 7K for subs.
charles
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GT audio has showed a few times over the years, but not with those base towers. Looks like Dannys subs to me.
I would be interested in what ways the Super 7s were better as well. They all have the ribbon, or planer, behind 3/4" thick baffle like the Apogees did. I found their imaging to be, individual images big and flat. I think due to diffraction.
The King is an electrostatic. I heard the King Prince and was shocked at how transparent a window into the sound they had. Best electrostat I heard that way, although it had other big limiting issues, such as power needed, danger of pannel arcing, ultimate volume, bass suckout at 200 hz, etc. This transparency into the sound is what I hope Danny's Mini or LS can do, but don't know.
Rocket Ronny
The King III is not an electrostatic it's a planar magnetic speaker. That's the one I was referring to.
Where did you audition the GTA3.1R speakers with bass towers? I don’t recall ever seeing them in any RMAF show reports. In what way do the Super-7s better their performance?
Oh don't get me wrong, they sounded good, just not as good as the Super 7. I didn't hear the GTA with the bass towers so take that into consideration. But the version without the bass towers had problems other than the bass that bothered me. It was the somewhat aggressive and metallic sound they had, combined with rather diffuse imaging. They had good depth of soundstage but in other ways they sounded a bit flat.
On the other hand, the GTA and the Alsyvox beat everything in the looks department. In person they are dead sexy.
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Thanks, appreciated.
King Sound Electrostatic.
http://www.kingsaudio.com.hk/
The GT audio metalic sound I can understand. I could pick that up slightly on the AV Show Reports. Diffuse imaging totally aligns with what I would expect given the 3/4" front baffle.
Rocket Ronny
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Thanks, appreciated.
King Sound Electrostatic.
http://www.kingsaudio.com.hk/
The GT audio metalic sound I can understand. I could pick that up slightly on the AV Show Reports. Diffuse imaging totally aligns with what I would expect given the 3/4" front baffle.
Rocket Ronny
One of the things that makes the Super 7 so special is the absolutely seamless transition between the midrange and highs. Plus the fact that the tweeter and mids sound literally identical to each other give it a coherence I've not heard in any other speaker. If you really want to test it, grab a disc with a soprano singer and listen to when they really lean into a note. MOST speakers will have either discontinuity or breakup. The Super 7 has neither. The Lineforce can do the same thing, but on an even larger scale.
Of course the discontinuity I'm talking about will show up in other places too, but less obvious than the soprano singer going full tilt.
Or as I like to joke - when they lean into the note, does it illustrate the passion of the music or does it make you want to leave the room. If it's the latter, then the culprit is likely the speakers.
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Great points.
It's always important to understand what's important to listener, so when they say something is good, or not, it can be put into context.
Rocket Ronny
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Great points.
It's always important to understand what's important to listener, so when they say something is good, or not, it can be put into context.
Rocket Ronny
Exactly. Like obviously most people don't listen to soprano singers. But I promise that the same type of issue will be occurring with a violin or flute or sustained note on a piano or girl with a guitar singing or the upper range of an electric guitar - the distortion/breakup will make those things sound slightly off and it'll be hard to pinpoint why. So even if you don't listen to soprano singers for enjoyment, it's a great test because it lays this particular weakness of most speakers brutally bare.
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Exactly. Like obviously most people don't listen to soprano singers. But I promise that the same type of issue will be occurring with a violin or flute or sustained note on a piano or girl with a guitar singing or the upper range of an electric guitar - the distortion/breakup will make those things sound slightly off and it'll be hard to pinpoint why. So even if you don't listen to soprano singers for enjoyment, it's a great test because it lays this particular weakness of most speakers brutally bare.
Your soprano singer is a dead giveaway for me. If it makes me cringe and my ears hurt, no matter how good the rest is, I won't touch it. Turns out this is why I never liked opera. Now, especially with my OB speakers, I actually enjoy listening to opera. As long as I can't understand what they are saying
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Your soprano singer is a dead giveaway for me. If it makes me cringe and my ears hurt, no matter how good the rest is, I won't touch it. Turns out this is why I never liked opera. Now, especially with my OB speakers, I actually enjoy listening to opera. As long as I can't understand what they are saying
That's funny - I never liked opera (or any classical singing) until I got the Super 7s. :lol:
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Wait a minute. RR posted a link to the GT Audioworks video from Capfest 2019. I just happened to be in the room when that was made late on Sunday afternoon, sitting right behind the camera guy. There was no metallic anything. That system sounded amazing and was completely in control. It pressurized what was probably a 50ft wide, 40ft deep, 10-12ft tall room with zero strain or glare. Don't judge a system by what you heard on YouTube. Honestly, I don't know why people do that with their products. GTA is a small company like Danny's and did have an issue once when at RMAF getting into a smallish room with unfamiliar vendors. That happens. I'm sure Danny has regretted sharing a room with someone whose equipment didn't do his speakers justice.
Are the Super 7 better than the GTA? I don't know, but I'm sure they're different. I can tell you that GTA system, at that show, was outstanding. Far more coherent, natural, dynamic, and transparent than systems across the atrium that were 4x the cost.
The Kingsound King III model is electrostatic, not planer magnetic, and does sound wonderful.
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Hi Rusty - I believe you that they sounded great at Capfest. I heard them at RMAF and can only go off what I heard there. Hopefully they make it back to RMAF in 2020 and bring that same level of performance. I'd love to hear it as I really love when small companies knock it out of the park. Which seems to happen more than with large companies, oddly enough.
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Thanks for sharing Rusty.
The metalic issue was from an older GT video, and I don't make decisions by youtube videos, ha. I was actually seriously considering buying them when they were 4 grand. I still would think the imaging would be flattened by the nature of the construction. This was one of the main reasons I did not go for them at the time.
Are they using Danny's servo woofers in that system?
The speakers sure look great though. Would love to hear them.
Rocket Ronny
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Apparently, Danny designed the subs.
The Inner Sound OB subs are Danny's design. Except enclosure finish. For a LOT less money from Danny. 23K for GTA now. 7K for subs.
charles
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Thanks. Yes their speaker is quite costly now. Still good value probably compared to the other high cost speakers out there.
Rocket Ronny
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OK Tyson,
You’ve been Home awhile now. The initial thrill is gone. You’ve had time to reflect on your experiences at Danny’s. You’ve listened to your Super 7’s in your own environment again.
IF Danny ever manages to get the replacement Neo 10’s to sound right........
Are you saving up all your pennies for a pair of the Line Force Speakers? :green:
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OK Tyson,
You’ve been Home awhile now. The initial thrill is gone. You’ve had time to reflect on your experiences at Danny’s. You’ve listened to your Super 7’s in your own environment again.
IF Danny ever manages to get the replacement Neo 10’s to sound right........
Are you saving up all your pennies for a pair of the Line Force Speakers? :green:
Out of my price range :( And the only room I could put them in would be the garden level basement where I have the Super 7s and the space is just too small for a line array and separate bass towers.
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A very good reason indeed. Exactly my reason for not using the Pipedream 924 in my room. Needed more space. Downsized with a speaker that fits my room. Best move I made realizing bigger is NOT better. Better is better. Need to give Danny a thank you for suggesting the crossover point to sub. Danny was spot on. Listen to Danny every chance you get.
charles
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@Tyson; Just to give me some context, have you ever heard Apogees and if so I’d be interested in your comments on similarities / dissimilarities with the Line Force speakers. TIA.
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Yes I have, many many many times. One of my very first "audio buddies" here in Denver had a pair of Apogee Full Range speakers set up in his dedicated basement. Paired them with dual floor to ceiling DIY subs, and the rest of the equipment was Ayre at first, but eventually all got replaced by Pass Labs, the X250's I believe.
There's things I love about the Apogees - first, they are big, so they scale up in a way that small speakers just can't. Second they are open baffle so they have the effortless sound that box speakers have a very hard time replicating. And with those crazy Pass amps, they were also quite dynamic.
The downsides - they always sounded somewhat aggressive and with a bit of and edge to the sound. It was less noticeable at lower volumes but started to rear up with moderate and high levels. Not sure if it's because they were metal but I suspect it was. And they never sounded fully integrated even if you sat a fair bit of distance away from them. Last, but not least, bass without a sub was not strong/deep enough (although it was very clean/musical), and integrating a sub (or subs) was a nightmare.
In comparison the Lineforce has none of those problems. One of the things that amazed me so much about this is their ability to go loud on a dynamic peak and not sound hard/aggressive AT ALL. In fact they are just about the only speaker I've ever heard that can play loud and still sound delicate/beautiful at the same time all hell is breaking loose! Not even my Super 7s can do that.
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I concur on the sound of the Apogees, at least from what I remember in the 80's. I considered a pair of Divas in the last 80's. When I went to listen to them with my wife, she walked out after two minutes saying they gave her a headache - she is more sensitive to high frequency harshness than I am.
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Anyone care to give an estimate on what size of room minimum you would need to extract the full performance or close to it of the line force?
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I have a larger pair of line array in a 10'h x 16'w x 25.2'd acoustically treated room with two 6x12 H-Frame servo subs. Works very well for me.
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Thanks! I am looking to move into a new house and my audio room would be 16' x 14' x 9.5'h. My thought is is that might still not be adequate enough to let the speakers fully perform.
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Tyson, did you have a chance to listen to the NX Oticas?
Wondering how the NX Oticas compare to the Super V's?
Thanks!
David
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Thanks! I am looking to move into a new house and my audio room would be 16' x 14' x 9.5'h. My thought is is that might still not be adequate enough to let the speakers fully perform.
Based on my experience of planars / dipoles I would have thought that room would be big enough provided you are happy for them to be at least 6 feet away from the front wall.
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Tyson, did you have a chance to listen to the NX Oticas?
Wondering how the NX Oticas compare to the Super V's?
Thanks!
David
No Super - V comparison but his review non the less
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167138.0
jay
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@Tyson; Just to give me some context, have you ever heard Apogees and if so I’d be interested in your comments on similarities / dissimilarities with the Line Force speakers. TIA.
Apogees have a warmer character. Not as detailed as well.
charles
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Tyson, did you have a chance to listen to the NX Oticas?
Wondering how the NX Oticas compare to the Super V's?
Thanks!
David
I wrote a very brief comparison here.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141654.msg1762014#msg1762014 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141654.msg1762014#msg1762014)
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Added link to the New Record Day review/impressions of this speaker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgoR2PLEZsk
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Interesting video! Forgive the OT comment, but the reference to chip amps prompts me to say that anyone interested in such amps and who is capable of a bit of DIY should check out the Neurochrome amps. They are without question the ultimate implementation of the chip amp. The price / performance ratio is off the chart. And before anyone accuses me of anything, I have no connection with Neurochrome other than having purchased and made a couple of their amps. I know there are others on AC who will concur.
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Interesting video! Forgive the OT comment, but the reference to chip amps prompts me to say that anyone interested in such amps...
Re: Amplification ideas to GR Research Studio Monitor
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167210.msg1775187#msg1775187
Folsom DIY7297
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156151.msg1671561#msg1671561
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/309860-folsom-diy7297-amp-antipole-psu.html
-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138229.0
by jonny5
-> -> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138229.msg1763293#msg1763293
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199779&size=huge) (https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199779&size=huge)
Jantzen Z-Superior caps with Miflex KPCU copper foil bypass caps was what I decided. With the layout, size of capacitors was potentially limited, haha.
I originally had doubts that I could find a cover that could fit the Antek 1218 transformer yet had adequate clearance for the layout in the case. Once I had all the parts in hand, it looked like a 120x57mm toroidal transformer cover would just barely fit and do the job.
Folsom EC7293
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/338275-folsom-ec7293-pvi-powered-frontend-60-120w-8-4ohm.html
The EC7293 uses 2 chip amps in parallel for high power with a discrete error correction frontend which reduces distortion; and has very low memory distortion. High sensitivity makes it perfect for a variety of sources with 8ohm and 4ohm speakers...
Update: bigger image: [&size=huge]
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Hi Danny, any success in your quest for the neo 10, for the Line force
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Some have been able to secure enough Neo10's from Parts Express.
We are actually getting ready to do a limited run of the cabinets again
Cabinets come pre-glued with bolt on bases and cross over boards as pictured. .All orders require 50% up front, material for these is not inexpensive and machining time is extensive..... there is a lot of attention to detail in this design, nothing is left unfinished.
If interested captainhemo@shaw.ca
jay
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Some have been able to secure enough Neo10's from Parts Express.
We are actually getting ready to do a limited run of the cabinets again
Cabinets come pre-glued with bolt on bases and cross over boards as pictured. .All orders require 50% up front, material for these is not inexpensive and machining time is extensive..... there is a lot of attention to detail in this design, nothing is left unfinished.
If interested captainhemo@shaw.ca
jay
8)
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Some have been able to secure enough Neo10's from Parts Express.
We are actually getting ready to do a limited run of the cabinets again
Cabinets come pre-glued with bolt on bases and cross over boards as pictured. .All orders require 50% up front, material for these is not inexpensive and machining time is extensive..... there is a lot of attention to detail in this design, nothing is left unfinished.
If interested captainhemo@shaw.ca
jay
Glad to her there's a round of these coming soon!
If only i could afford such a killer speaker.. But i have no doubt I'll be happy with my soon-to-come Studio Monitor for years to come. :thumb:
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Some have been able to secure enough Neo10's from Parts Express.
We are actually getting ready to do a limited run of the cabinets again
Cabinets come pre-glued with bolt on bases and cross over boards as pictured. .All orders require 50% up front, material for these is not inexpensive and machining time is extensive..... there is a lot of attention to detail in this design, nothing is left unfinished.
If interested captainhemo@shaw.ca
jay
I sure hope for everyone that Danny can make it happen at some point, hopefully sometimes soon. 🤞
He certainly deserves it!!
$320 per driver like I ended up paying is not for the faint of heart!! But sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet... :green:
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I sure hope for everyone that Danny can make it happen at some point, hopefully sometimes soon. 🤞
He certainly deserves it!!
$320 per driver like I ended up paying is not for the faint of heart!! But sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet... :green:
Painter all good with your color too :)
jay
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Painter all good with your color too :)
jay
Thanks for the update, Jay!!
I should know in exactly 2 weeks whether or not I’m moving into a bigger place, in which case I will most definitely need to add a pair of triple subs to replace my duals like we talked about as well as a matching pair of studio monitors!! Yes...your buddy Mike (Mivera) was able to convince me to splurge on a second 4-channel Puremusic! 😆
Now if only the Canada-US border could reopen....that and my bank account that’s hurting lol
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Bringing this thread back. Will these be available at some point still or did Danny never find a Neo 10 to his liking?
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We have a pair chassis incoming for a customer that will make use of the Parts-Express "GRS" Neo10 clones. We'll likely need to re design the crossover for this version
But beyond that, we dont have plans to resurrect the original model.
We are still waiting on some new sample planar drivers that will be larger than the original Neo10s.
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Would be great to redesign it around the GRS drivers.
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We are still waiting on some new sample planar drivers that will be larger than the original Neo10s.
How much larger? Are we talking larger driver or just a larger exterior?
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How much larger? Are we talking larger driver or just a larger exterior?
Larger overall, but we still haven't received a sample to play around with.
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Hobbs, have you guys received the Cabinets for the customer project with the PE Neo 10s yet? My guess is that the PE Neo 10s won't hold a candle to the hopefully upcoming Neo10s from GR but I was just wondering how they turned out.
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Not yet, unfortunately.
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Thanks Hobbs. Looking forward to hearing about these as well as the new upcoming 10s.
Saw that Danny has designed a new NQ 8". Are there any plans for a non NQ version?
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Thanks Hobbs. Looking forward to hearing about these as well as the new upcoming 10s.
Saw that Danny has designed a new NQ 8". Are there any plans for a non NQ version?
Not at the moment, but we may work on that sometime in the future if we have an interesting idea that could use them.
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Not yet, unfortunately.
The last update I got from Jay was that 80% of the composite material has been ready for ages but they don’t have resin to do the last 20%. There is a massive shortage but they should be able to get some shortly 🤞
The order included material for 3 pairs of Line Force speakers. 2 with original BG planars and 1 using GRS drivers.