Do you plan to do the GRS Neo10?, I will be very very interested if that can play in the super 7 league !
With the deep cup used on both models, there's better & fuller mids, but both definitely lack any bass, as expected.
I am interested in the NEO8S. Don't know if this version is the NEO8 or NEO8S clone, but it does appear to go lower than the slim version.
I've installed Danny's yarn mod into my Neo3, so I'll be testing that later tonight once one of my house mates is no longer asleep.
I'm genuinely curious how it will affect the results, since its mostly intended for better off-axis results.
I have most of Saturday off, which I'll use for more testing, likely near-field (~1 inch past the wave guide) & off axis, along with some different combinations of the taller plastic rods on both drivers.
I may also rerun todays current test results outdoors to help remove any in-room reflections.
Thanks for doing this. I am curious what is causing the ringing on both above 10KHz.
When you measured it OB, did you have the wave-guide on it or just remove the cup off the back ? I would assume the latter.
The ringing is due the settings I had the gated window open too long. Here's the adjusted graphs, that also have the smoothing set to 1/12 to make it easier to read.
Neo3 OB:
GRS3 OB:
NEO3 Cup:
GRS3 Cup:
And yes, the waveguide was used for all tests, with only the cup removed for the OB tests.
It is hard to get any meaningful distortion measurements outside of an anichoic chamber. The room noise is too high and it is hard to create a great enough differential to see the real data.
A fair point, to be sure.
I ordered a proper mic stand and extension cord, so i can hopefully get some cleaner results on Saturday assuming it arrives early enough or it may have to wait till Wednesday since i do have work late on Saturday night then all day Sunday. But I should at least be able to get comparable results with the modified neo3 in the next day.
How about the sound, did you try to run some listening session to have some qualitative measures, regarding tonality, soundstage, resolution etc ?
Does it worth trying Neo 10 ?
Try pulling the trigger on a measurement with the driver not plugged in so that all you get is room noise and see what that looks like. :D
Rich is currently doing some tests with the GRS Neo 3 and Neo 10 in one of our tested/proven Super Mini / Monolith baffles. There is a bit of size difference in the Neo3's but it sounds like they do drop in. The screw positions are different on 2 of the Neo 10 mounting screws.
Sure he'll be posting some results at some point
jay
The string mod appears to have knocked down the distortion peaks.
Will you be doing the same yarn mod test to the GRS NEO3 clone ?
TIA
With the way the weather is going, probably will be later this week before making measurements with CLIO Pocket.
At least the latest 2.11 version is now installed and calibrated for use.
GRS drivers arrived today. Getting a set of Radian as well. Will do full comparison of original BG, RADIAN and GRS and start new thread once complete.
Greg
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215299)
GRS drivers arrived today. Getting a set of Radian as well. Will do full comparison of original BG, RADIAN and GRS and start new thread once complete.
Greg
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215299)
GRS drivers arrived today. Getting a set of Radian as well. Will do full comparison of original BG, RADIAN and GRS and start new thread once complete.
Greg
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215299)
I'd say roughly hour & 15 minutes or so judging by the time stamps of the tests I ran.
I'd imagine it was probably a fair bit of both, but if i need another standard Neo 3 it'll be one of Danny's. ...
Couple of thoughts.
Could the rods be acting as insulators, preventing heat dissipation/cooling ???
If you used glue, could it have acted as a solvent weakening membrane ???
"... I'm also really curious about the jagged pattern above 2.5K...
The jagged pattern on the right is a product of using the option "Use Harmonic Freq as Reference" option.
Well after 3 days of trying to measure outside with CLIO Pocket version 2.11, here is the best frequency response of the GRS 10" Planar I was able to measure. The planar is mounted in the stock Super Mini Baffle with the measurement mic at 50" from the center of the planar.
The baffle would need mods to mount the GRS planar for a better fit. The GRS 10" planar is slightly larger than the BG NEO10.
The time gate used was ~6mS and no reflections were in that time. The external noise and wind were a big problem with the pressure mic for the log sweep measurement, even though the time window is wide for a quasi-anechoic style measurement.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215846)
Yes, but that does not tell you the effect of the baffle on the drivers frequency response is a room Why you need to also do far field (quasi-anechoic) style measurements.
...
And I probably might also make some adjustments to my model and print a new baffle that better fits the GRS-10.
...
FWIW, how long does it take to 3D print one of your typical baffles ? I have never used a 3D printer before.The baffle I printed for the GRS-3 took about 22 hrs, and the wave guide took another 8-10hrs i believe.
The baffle I printed for the GRS-3 took about 22 hrs, and the wave guide took another 8-10hrs i believe.
The two halves for the GRS-10 took about 18 hours total but it also has a low infill rate g was printed a bit faster & thicker layer height than the standard. had I gone for standard quality, it would have taken about 28-30 hours.
My measurement results now posted over at diy audio exotic and planar forum.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-and-exotics/360339-planar-drivers-express-10.html
Greg
What's the point of the waveguides in the Neo10/3 combination? I know the waveguide increases output level and controls directivity.
A fun little tidbit for today:
Watching Paul McGowans latest video, & it looks like PS Audio is developing their own Neo-3 & Neo-10 clones now too. The neo 3 has a shallow back cup with the PS Audio logo.
Interesting. It seems that the price-to-sound ratio is so high that manufacturers and the DIY community will likely flock to design speakers with them. Imagine a $750 monitor with Neo3's & 10's.
It's definitely a well designed tweeter & performs quite well and can reach down pretty low often in the 1k range, esp with a wave guide.
That said, a neo3+10 setup does exist, tho due to availability issues of the Neo10, it's definitely expensive.. and even with the GRS10, wich is 1/3 the cost but doesn't seem to play all that low. Even with a winged baffle.. it measures down to 150-200Hz in near field, but loses its impact below 400-500hz. So it would work great for a 3-way but not too well on its own in an OB setting.
It's definitely a well designed tweeter & performs quite well and can reach down pretty low often in the 1k range, esp with a wave guide.
That said, a neo3+10 setup does exist, tho due to availability issues of the Neo10, it's definitely expensive.. and even with the GRS10, wich is 1/3 the cost but doesn't seem to play all that low. Even with a winged baffle.. it measures down to 150-200Hz in near field, but loses its impact below 400-500hz. So it would work great for a 3-way but not too well on its own in an OB setting.
Just to clarify my measurement, the GRS 10" planar does go down to 200Hz at 9dB down in the Super Mini baffle. It does not have the same response in the baffle as the BG NEO10. That is why I stated the existing open baffles and XO would need to change from the stock drivers. If you are doing it passively, then it would need to be 6dB down at 200Hz to crossover to the servo subs, which is what the BG NEO10 does.
If you use a dspMusik XO as I do, it can be EQ'd to work.
Just to clarify my measurement, the GRS 10" planar does go down to 200Hz at 9dB down in the Super Mini baffle. It does not have the same response in the baffle as the BG NEO10. That is why I stated the existing open baffles and XO would need to change from the stock drivers. If you are doing it passively, then it would need to be 6dB down at 200Hz to crossover to the servo subs, which is what the BG NEO10 does.
If you use a dspMusik XO as I do, it can be EQ'd to work.
I used the average around my 1.2KHz measurement for this driver and then look at LF rolloff in this baffle. If the measurement shown for the GRS 10" in the specs is about 90dB at 1.2KHz at 1 meter, then it should be about 81dB@2.83v/1m at 200Hz in this baffle.
The hump in the response from specs at about 200Hz looks like a panel resonance from the response in the impedance plot also shown. I do not see it farfield in the measurements of this baffle. As Hobbsmeerkat has shown he sees it in nearfield measurements. Since no baffle type is stated for the GRS measurement, it is hard to tell, but the data looks scaled from nearfield measurements. You need to measure it in the baffle design to see what really happens.
Lifting the response with EQ 9dB near a resonance is not a good thing to do.
Well that stinks. They are pretty cool looking though.
Don
Danny did some quick testing today with the GRS-10 clone in the Super Mini baffle.
He said it was a workable alternative, it just needs a notch filter to bring down a hump around 600-700Hz by a couple dB, but seems to measure better than in my own testing.
I believe some wanted to use them to make a LineForce since they're fairly priced & BG Neo10s haven't been available, especially lately, and they should work pretty well once the changes to the crossover are made. :thumb:
I'll update once Danny has a chance to email the measurements.
Danny did some quick testing today with the GRS-10 clone in the Super Mini baffle.Good News!
He said it was a workable alternative, it just needs a notch filter to bring down a hump around 600-700Hz by a couple dB, but seems to measure better than in my own testing.
I believe some wanted to use them to make a LineForce since they're fairly priced & BG Neo10s haven't been available, especially lately, and they should work pretty well once the changes to the crossover are made. :thumb:
I'll update once Danny has a chance to email the measurements.
The BG8 (equiv) units have a natural roll-off under 500hz. How does high power at low frequencies affect these things? Is it essential to high-pass filter them?
Danny did some quick testing today with the GRS-10 clone in the Super Mini baffle.
He said it was a workable alternative, it just needs a notch filter to bring down a hump around 600-700Hz by a couple dB, but seems to measure better than in my own testing.
I believe some wanted to use them to make a LineForce since they're fairly priced & BG Neo10s haven't been available, especially lately, and they should work pretty well once the changes to the crossover are made. :thumb:
I'll update once Danny has a chance to email the measurements.