Philips 963SA mods blow-by-blow

audioengr · « **on:** 16 Aug 2004, 08:59 pm »

In my quest for a replacement for my wonderful Sony DVP-S7700 transport, I am trying first a Philips 963SA. I would also like to provide a less expensive CDP alternative for my customers that approaches the performance of the Turbomod Sony 7700/Turbomod P-3A DAC combo, with SACD capability.

Initial reactions to the stock Philips:
1) Funky remote and must be aimed directly at the CDP
2) Plays automatically track1 even though I dont want to listen to track 1
3) Slightly noisy mechanism, although not bad from listening position
4) Some popping when changing tracks manually
5) Build quality not bad, but lighter than the Sony
6) Single-laser unit
7) The output S/PDIF signal is very good - little jitter
8 ) Plenty of room for mods

First round of Transport mods:
1) Jensen 4-pole cap
2) FRED's
3) Black Gates in power supply and on main board
4) Redesign and rewire the S/PDIF output circuitry

Result:
The Philips is very good indeed. After 3 days of break-in, it is sounding almost as good as the Sony, but the Sony has a modded Superclock2 in it. The S/PDIF output is text-book perfect with no obvious jitter.

Second round of mods:
1) Add SuperTurboclock2 (required for 33 MHz)

Result:
The Philips pulls ahead slightly as a Transport. It is now more focused than the Sony. Cymbols sound even more live and less hash on vocals with the Philips. Not sure if the overall presentation sounds more live or not. Very close though.

Next steps: upgrade the Sony to a SuperTurboclock.

Result:
The Sony focus improved a bit, but still not as good as the Philips. Both drives have almost identical mods, with different implementations of course. Now I believe it a a matter of personal taste. I played a number of different tracks for my wife switching back and forth and some she liked the Sony better and some she liked the Philips better. Here is how we sum up the differences, although they are subtle:

Sony Transport - Very dynamic and punchy, lots of dynamics - very 3-D. Piano very percussive and reverberant. Vocals sound live even off-axis. Makes you want to get up and dance. Bells and vibraphone sound like bells, not thumpy. Cymbols are metallic, but don't shimmer as much.

Philips Transport - Very focused, clean sounding and dynamic, but less "body" than the Sony. Great listening, but does not make you want to get up and dance. Piano a tad warmer sounding, but has great harmonics. Vocals are very clear and clean sounding. Bells have a thumpy attack. Cymbols sound metallic and have superior shimmer to the Sony - outstanding cymbols.

AphileEarlyAdopter · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 09:17 pm »

Steve,
I am told that in the 963SA the clock is derived in a contrived manner for the 44.1, upsampling, SACD and video functions. This supposedly introduces quite a lots of jitter. It looks like you have the main/primary clock. Have you solved the issue of delivering pure signals to the various sections/mode ?

Ears · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 10:20 pm »

Quote from: AphileEarlyAdopter

Steve,
I am told that in the 963SA the clock is derived in a contrived manner for the 44.1, upsampling, SACD and video functions. This supposedly introduces quite a lots of jitter. It looks like you have the main/primary clock. Have you solved the issue of delivering pure signals to the various sections/mode ?

Ditto.... I would also be interested in this same question.

audioengr · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 10:58 pm »

As for the clock distribution, I looked at what they did, and it is a bit unconventional. However, they have used some terminators in the right places and the jitter appears extremely low in the resultant S/PDIF output. In fact, a direct comparison with the Sony 7700 in audition shows that the focus on the Philips is better and this corelates with what I see on the scope.

However, the jump-factor and "body" is not quite as good with the Philips as with the Sony. Once I get the schematic for the Philips I will look harder at the clock distribution and maybe make some more changes. The logic family used for this is extremely fast and made by Phillips.

Fife · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 11:34 pm »

That is pretty good news for a cheap transport.

However, I tested the 963 over at a freidns house and these are some things I didnt like about it when used as a CD player.

1) remote must be aimed directly

2) 1-2 second delay when you manually change tracks

3) unit gets hot after 2 hours playing. When a new disc is inserted and played for 1 song, the disc too gets flaming hot after ejecting it not kidding

4) Soundstage seemed thin and lean

However, I thing this is a decent machine for someone budget-minded who wants SACD.

Hopefully with the mods done by EA, this will be a good referenece transport at a lower price.

audioengr · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Aug 2004, 01:02 am »

I does get fairly warm. I have been trying to determine what exactly is getting hot. If the cover had some breathing holes, this would probably help. This is something that I could do.

BTW - I have not treated the Philips with ERS yet - does not seem to need it.

PLMONROE · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Aug 2004, 03:35 pm »

I may be wrong, but the SACD vs DVD-A competition seems to be polarizing along the following lines. SACD releases (with exceptions) seem to be mostly classical and DVD-A releases (with exceptions) seem to be more jazz and contemporary. In any event it woud be nice to have a unit which woud play both formats. The 963SA does not. Are you looking at any other units? One candidate that comes to mind is the Pioneeer Elite DV-45 which can be found used at reasonable prices. Any thoughts on its potential?

audioengr · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Aug 2004, 05:18 pm »

I have not seen a DV-45 yet, but I have the manuals for a DV-47. The older Pioneers were pretty good, but the Sony's were better. I am focusing on a Sony 999 right now, but I could be persuaded to try something else. After buying the 963SA, I am a bit picky about what I try next. I dont want to throw too much money away. The Marantz's for instance have a reputation for bad ergonomics. The Denon 2900 is another possibility, but I have heard mixed reviews on the sound quality.

audioengr · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Sep 2004, 05:24 pm »

Update - I have homed-in on some of the problems with the 963SA and I believe they are solvable. The intermittancy that I had was just that the grease on the carriage assembly had hardened and it was sticking. I cleaned it up and applied Teflon grease and it works fine now.

As for the heating problem, there is a single chip right underneath the read head that gets quite hot. I am planning to either heat-sink it or put a heat-shield under the carriage assembly or both.

As a result I have started mods on the analog section. The good news is that it is AC-coupled, but the capacitors are unnecessary, so they get shorted. The op-amps run an a +/- 8V supply.

Marbles · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Sep 2004, 05:43 pm »

You might want to look at the Denon 3910 or the Pioneer Elite 59AVi

The Denon just is coming out, the Elite has been out a few months. Both are reputed to have a great picture and good stock MC Audio.

Denon is thought to have very good stock 2 channel audio, but that is coming from video guys. Haven't heard anything about the 2 ch audio on the Elite.

Both are universal machines

Ears · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Sep 2004, 05:56 pm »

Actually, the Denon 3910 seems to have serious QC issues.

The Onkyo 1000/Integra DPS-10.5 was compared to the 5900,3910,Pioneer 59 av, Top Marantz,Top Arcam and the Estoric DV-50.

Read about it at www.avsforum.com in the dvd section as you might be suprised whith the results.

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Sep 2004, 06:16 pm »

Is this the right thread???

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347804

If not, do us all a favor and link the right one!!

Thanks

Ears · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Sep 2004, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Is this the right thread???

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347804

If not, do us all a favor and link the right one!!

Thanks

Thats the one, the comparisions start on page 2-3 whith the first page being speculation before release.

mikef · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Oct 2004, 08:28 pm »

I'm curious as to what's happening with both transport mods and stand-alone player mods for the 963 - pricing, options, availability, etc.

Thanks!

Mike Fox

audioengr · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Oct 2004, 08:42 pm »

I've completed the digital mods and installed a SuperTurboclock. Output is squeaky-clean and jitter-free. The best I've seen from a transport.

The digital/power mods are $500.

Jensen 4-pole cap is $130 more.

SuperTurboclock is $550.

I have the schematic, but I have not modded the analog section yet. Just need to find the time.

Steve N.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Oct 2004, 09:03 pm »

Quote from: audioengr

I've completed the digital mods and installed a SuperTurboclock. Output is squeaky-clean and jitter-free. The best I've seen from a transport.

Steve N.

Steve, are you saying that the 963SA modded outperforms your Sony S7700 comparably-modded as a transport?

audioengr · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 05:21 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC

Quote from: audioengr
I've completed the digital mods and installed a SuperTurboclock. Output is squeaky-clean and jitter-free. The best I've seen from a transport.

Steve N.

Steve, are you saying that the 963SA modded outperforms your Sony S7700 comparably-modded as a transport?

They are just different. They are both focused and detailed, the 963A is probably more focused with a SuperTurboclock2, but I still like the 7700 more for naturalness and liveness. The 7700 is still in my reference system.

The only transport that I have found that sounds more live than a 7700 is a modded Pioneer DV-47A, but the focus is not quite as good as the 7700. These two are very close though.