[mgsboedmisodpc2]

446.683592 watts = 26.5 db
Tekton Lore Reference 96db 1watt a 1 meter
= loud =  96db + 26.5 db = 122.5db = burnt voice coil
The Lore has a max of 250 watts why so much power HiFiJeff

[rufusblues]

Just in case this is helpful to read about, I used the M Lore speakers for about a year. I loved those speakers and was able to make improvements to my system along the way, which the speakers responded to very readily. For such a small and affordable speaker, not requiring any stands, they are probably one of the best deals in high end audio. When I purchased the speakers, I asked Eric for amp recommendations and he advised getting a Crown XLS amp, and suggested getting 'the most power I could afford'. So I went with the XLS2500. I use an Oppo BDP105 going from the balanced outputs to the balanced inputs of the Crown. The amp appears to sound best with the higher voltage of the balanced outputs (4 volts vs 2 for single ended). I keep the gain levels on the Crown down as low as possible, and this helps smooth out the sound. But here is the clincher about this Crown amp: it is so transparent and neutral, it responds to any changes made upstream. I spent a lot on speaker wire and interconnects (first, the entry level MIT cables, which are excellent, and then those by Triode Wire Labs). But the really important component is the ac cable. The ones I prefer are also from Triode Wire Labs. Go with the best one you could afford (I know, it starts to out-cost the amp!!) but it takes the amp to a level you may have not thought possible. Some companies that sell digital amps already include specialized ac cables with them; I think there is something to how these sorts of amps respond to ac cables. This is my experience, sorry if it flies in the face of cost-effectiveness or ones' strongly held beliefs that such things as ac cables should make no difference. Actually, as far as cost-effectiveness is concerned, even with Triode Wire Labs top of the line ac cable, you are still talking about an amp that can compete with those in the $5,000 and up range.....according to at least some on the blog dedicated to the Crown XLS amps, so, I would argue that it's still cost effective. I think the amp is rather ugly and I have it hidden from view. The latest versions have the option of turning off the led readout, and also have input adjustments to allow it to work better with lower level inputs (like 2 volts). They are also black in color, which may appeal more to some. Otherwise, sound wise they are the same as the previous XLS model according to several technicians at Crown.

A couple months ago I purchased the Lore Reference because a good friend of mine was interested to buy my M Lores, and I was curious about the Reference model having read some very glowing reviews. The Reference speaker takes at least several days of breaking in (maybe due to a stiffer driver??). The speaker loses a bit of an edge and really opens up. I would say that the Lore Reference has a more even frequency response, more detail, somewhat more refined sound. I use a TBI subwoofer, so low end  with either speaker is not so much of an issue for me, but I think the low end on the Reference is more detailed as well. Actually, it is like a 'reference' version of the M Lore. That being said, after having the Lore Reference for a few months now, I still think the M Lore is a great speaker, fun to listen to, and if  for whatever reason one wanted to stick with that rather then move up to the Reference - that would be totally understandable. I hope this helpful.

[a.wayne]

Agree with the ac power  cord ,  the xls does respond to power cords like nothing i have experienced before , what differences are you noticing between SE input vs XLR input ..?

The XLS 2000 is an enigma , when its good its really good , the bad ( hardness) is really bad , very noticable on pianos ,  musicals etc , Gain controls sound best in my setup at 2-3 o clock position and all software features off .


 Moved it to bass duties in the HT

[Folsom]

It's power filter has a flaw that I was correcting. The powercord will affect this flaw, as will conditioners of different sorts.

It's not a hard thing to correct, if anyone considered themselves real handy with soldering iron. It's also not the only thing I did, but it's important.

[rufusblues]

The balanced outputs from the Oppo produce 4 volts, vs 2 volts going single ended. I only need to turn the gains up to around the noon position, or even a click or two below. The more you need to turn those gain controls on the Crown up, the more top end "hashy" sort of brightness there is. Right now I am experiencing none of the negative things people are referring to. If some vocals are recorded 'hot', it shows up that way - but it's not awful by any means. With the Triode Wire Labs top of the line ac cable, I am really loving the Crown, in my system with my particular configuration. I believe I would have to spend thousands to do better, and, well, you know how that goes.....there will always be 'something'. 

[S Clark]

even with Triode Wire Labs top of the line ac cable, you are still talking about an amp that can compete with those in the $5,000 and up range.....

I tried the Crown with TWL cables and Wywires cables.  My experience was that does not compete with higher priced amps.  It is what it is.  A cheap amp with good bang for the buck. 

[gregfisk]

I tried the Crown with TWL cables and Wywires cables.  My experience was that does not compete with higher priced amps.  It is what it is.  A cheap amp with good bang for the buck.

I purchased a crown XLS1500 for a friend of mine to run 10 pair of inwall and outdoor speakers at his cabin. Since I they were $209.00 I bought one too.

While it is a great amp for the money my Butler Audio 2250 at $3200.00 new is much better

[roscoeiii]

I purchased a crown XLS1500 for a friend of mine to run 10 pair of inwall and outdoor speakers at his cabin. Since I they were $209.00 I bought one too.

While it is a great amp for the money my Butler Audio 2250 at $3200.00 new is much better

Yes, those Butler amps are great. I'd like to compare the Butler (sold mine a few years back) to the XLS on my power hungry SP Techs.

[roscoeiii]

I purchased a crown XLS1500 for a friend of mine to run 10 pair of inwall and outdoor speakers at his cabin. Since I they were $209.00 I bought one too.

While it is a great amp for the money my Butler Audio 2250 at $3200.00 new is much better

And remind us what you are driving with these amps...

[gregfisk]

And remind us what you are driving with these amps...

I'm driving the top end of Super Vs which are 97db efficient. I don't think I'm putting any kind of load on either one of the amps. My issue with the crown amp being a giant killer is the edginess that it has and lack of sound stage. It sounds pretty good if I sit and listen long enough as I get used to it. But doing a swap back and forth it is very obvious to me anyway that the upper midrange and highs are shrill and don't have the rich texture and body of the Butler.

In a different system they may sound different, I haven't tried. My friend really likes his but like I said he's using it for whole house audio and isn't into audio like most of us here.

roscoeiii, I wanted to add one more thing. I don't think the Butler can deliver the power that the crown can, I remember now I did try them on my pair of Aerial 7Bs I own and the crown seemed like it handled them better but not night and day.

[OzarkTom]

Has anyone else here heard the XLS cryo'd?

[roscoeiii]

Has anyone else here heard the XLS cryo'd?

Keep meaning to get around to having my 2 XLS and my iTube cryo'd. But think I'lll replace the binding posts first. decisions, decisions...

[DaveC113]

The Pomonas just bolt in, 10 min job... well worth it too. You can replace the "wires" going to the posts if you're feeling adventurous, that will require soldering.

[roscoeiii]

Yeah, need to look back in this thread and figure out the best order to proceed for XLS upgrades.

But it is a damn long thread at this point...

[OzarkTom]

Make sure you have the binding posts in before you get the cryo.

[gregfisk]

Keep meaning to get around to having my 2 XLS and my iTube cryo'd. But think I'lll replace the binding posts first. decisions, decisions...

roscoeiii, what does the ifi tube buffer do compared to not having it in the system with your Crown? I have a different tube buffer but a friend is using it right now.

I do run a Joule Electra MKII-SE in front of my amps and it does a wonderful job of adding that tube goodness I love so much.

[jk@home]

I've tried 4 different tube buffers over the years in my system (MF X10D, Yaquin, Dodds, and iTube). The iTube is the only one I felt actually added to the resolution of the system, not detracting from it.

Also, if you get one, experiment with the 3d effect. It is not the most accurate playback, but in many cases, the best sounding one, if your system allows it to shine. Makes my monopole speakers sound like dipoles, but without the downside.

BTW, I've moved my Crowns to the HT system, now driving various Paradigm Studio V-3s (mains, center, surround etc.). Better match than the KEFs in the 2 channel system. So they are there to stay.

[DaveC113]

I just reconditioned a pair of Dahlquist speakers (DQ12), mostly because I got them nearly free, but also to check out a well regarded design.

The combination of the Dahlquists + the Crown amp is ridiculously good for something one could acquire in the $600-$700 range. And the re-foamed woofers and xo caps haven't even broke in yet... I'm a little shocked but have read many Dahlquist owners can't find anything better without spending tons of cash and the speakers like as much power as they can get. The speakers are very basic and overall a budget cabinet design, but it seems well thought out and maximizes bang for the buck.

[S Clark]

Yes, those Butler amps are great. I'd like to compare the Butler (sold mine a few years back) to the XLS on my power hungry SP Techs.

Roscoeii, what about updating your System profile.  It still shows the Butler as the amp for your main system.

[roscoeiii]

Roscoeii, what about updating your System profile.  It still shows the Butler as the amp for your main system.

Oh my,  I will get that updated...