AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: ritzry2 on 24 Dec 2019, 06:58 pm
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Happy Holidays!
I am planning on putting together a home theater and 2-channel listening room in our basement. I don't have a lot of space or flexibility but I am hoping to make something work. Here is the layout of the room I am envisioning. I would like any feedback you have with respect to speaker placement and room treatment.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=202441)
Other details...
ROOM – This room will be used for both home theater and 2-channel listening.
FLOORING – Carpet
WALLS – Drywall
CEILING – Drywall – A bulkhead that is approximately 1' high and 4' wide runs the length of the 15' 10" wall on the south side of the room. The height of the ceiling is 7.5' where there is NO bulkhead (7' W x 15' 10" L) and 6.5 where there IS a bulkhead (4' W x 15' 10" L).
SPEAKERS - GR Research X-Statiks open baffle main speakers (http://gr-research.com/x-statikkit.aspx), GR Research Servo Sub Kit #2 (http://gr-research.com/servosubkit2.aspx) and GR Research X-Voce center (http://gr-research.com/x-voce.aspx)
I appreciate any thoughts/feedback. Thanks, Ryan
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Setup your room in their 3d system and submit it for free advice
https://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/
I ordered my first set of treatments yesterday. 4wk lead time.
Cheers
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I’d add a pair of A/V-1RSs for side surround speakers and either a second pair of A/V-1RSs or a pair of X-LS Encores as surround back speakers.
The surround speakers designed to match the X-Statik/X-Voce front are the X-Omnis. However, they need to be three feet away from any wall and I’m not sure from the drawing if you have enough room. If you do, I’d go with X-Omnis for the surround speakers.
I’d also recommend at least one more sub. For that many seating positions, four sub’s would be ideal. The most likely positions would be one on each wall.
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Are you committed to your speaker choices?
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Thanks for all the feedback so far.
I am open to hearing feedback on speaker choice. I don't plan on changing BUT I would like to hear your thoughts, which could change my mind. I own a handful of different speakers which have been boxed-up for a while, so I could make a change easily.
Regarding home theater, I am not all that interested in home theater surround speakers. I am more of a 2-channel person. Going with 2 subs is something I may explore. I don't plan on doing surround speakers though.
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Layout looks traditional/good. Earl Geddes has a similar layout in his 8ft x 14ft x 22ft HT/audio room.
Suggest picking speakers that have high coherence (driver blending) and wide dispersion for all the mid-field front row listening positions.
If you go with 2 subs, suggest placing in opposite corners with different offsets from the corners to reduce inevitable in-room bass peaks/dips.
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When you say place subs at opposite ends, are you referring to (a) opposite diagonal ends, (b) opposite (short wall) end, or (c) opposite (long wall) end?
Are you familiar with X-Statik speakers? That is what I plan on using in this space; how would they perform in this space?
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2 subs allow you to get better dispersion of low frequencies throughout the room.
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8' x 14' x 22' is literally twice the estimated volume of a 7' (average) x 11' x 16 room - and that's not including the volume consumed by a platform AND 2 rows of theater seats.
Personally, if I wanted to keep the OB speakers, I'd ditch the platform and the 2nd row of seats. If I was committed to the 2nd row, I'd use a set of monitors that would work well closer to side walls and heavily treat the first reflection points.
Less is more, and this is coming from a guy with a 11' x 12' x 10' listening space.
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In the corner of our basement we have a couple sump pumps that need to be hidden. Hence the platform -- this hides the sump pumps. We have 6 on our family so we want enough theater seating for 6, which is why we have two rows of theater seating. If it were up to me, this space would be a dedicated 2-channel room with a single listening chair BUT this space needs to accommodate the entire family so I am trying to make it work the best it can.
I should be able to pull the speakers out 3' from the front wall. This would then give about 6 - 6.5' distance between the first row of theater seating and the speakers.
Will this be too close of a distance or will this work OK????
I know the setup is not ideal BUT will it be sufficient, all things considered. I do own other speakers that I could put in the space but I was hoping to use my x-statiks here because I recently built them and I like them.
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If your primary goal is 2-channel audio, I'd stick with the X-Statiks. I think your positioning will work ok with some room treatments.
Are you planning a flatpanel TV or a projector system? If a flatpanel TV, you could do what I've seen others do which is to create some diffusor panels that clip over the top of the TV when you are listening to music so that you don't have a large reflective panel right between the speakers. If using projection, you could look at a perforated screen with diffusors behind the screen. Even a non-perforated screen is going to pass lower frequencies right through, so using some treatments behind the screen might help.
Bass traps (or tube traps) in the corners (particularly front corners) are going to help with the room modes (particularly around 70 Hz).
Absorbers or abfusors at the first reflection points on the walls and ceiling will help with imaging and dialog intelligibility.
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Any recommendations on acoustic treatment companies? I am looking at GIK and ATS. Thoughts/feedback?
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I put together a visual of acoustic treatments for my room. The 2'x4' panels on the front and back wall will actually be 2x4 diffusion panels I have already. I would appreciate any feedback/advice you have on treatment. Thanks!
2D: https://gikacoustics.roomle.com/t/planner?mode=2D&id=fnp2hl9cgspr03ryhj54f0dc3px5cvh&shared=1
3D: https://gikacoustics.roomle.com/t/planner/?mode=3D&id=fnp2hl9cgspr03ryhj54f0dc3px5cvh&shared=1
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I put together a visual of acoustic treatments for my room. The 2'x4' panels on the front and back wall will actually be 2x4 diffusion panels I have already. I would appreciate any feedback/advice you have on treatment. Thanks!
2D: https://gikacoustics.roomle.com/t/planner?mode=2D&id=fnp2hl9cgspr03ryhj54f0dc3px5cvh&shared=1
3D: https://gikacoustics.roomle.com/t/planner/?mode=3D&id=fnp2hl9cgspr03ryhj54f0dc3px5cvh&shared=1
Did you send those links to GIK? Use the form on their website. They'll mock it all up for you for free. They had me start with the corners and first reflection points. I scaled down their suggested "full blown" treatment to something that was workable within my budget. They are responsive to emails and calls after they've had a few days to make their initial review.
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GIK is a great company and offers quality, science-proven products at reasonable costs. They are very helpful. :thumb:
I pass near their shop every day on my way to work. Next week I'll be dropping off some 244 panels for re-covering.
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Which of the following GIK products would your recommend for the corners, based off performance for the cost for my room (dimensions above)...
a) 4 - 1' x 4' Monsters
b) 4 - 1' x 4' 244's
c) 4 - TriTraps
d) 2 - 1' x 4' Monsters (front) and 2 - Soffit (back)
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Have not heard the X-Statik, but as a MTM open baffle design agree that it would be far from my first choice for a mid-field speaker. With subs you won't need speakers with 4 mid-woofers plus be able to reach lower frequencies. Note that I'm a purist and a fan of keeping it as simple as possible.
As far as subwoofer placement, recommend 3- 4 subs located near corners to reduce inevitable in-room bass peaks/dips and reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition to learn how speakers behave in-room. I use three 10 inch subs near corners in my audio room.
Don't second guess, just send your diagram/descriptions into GIK and get their advice before purchase. I use ten 2ft x 4ft GIK 244 panels in my 8ft x 13ft x 21ft audio room.
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Don't second guess, just send your diagram/descriptions into GIK and get their advice before purchase. I use ten 2ft x 4ft GIK 244 panels in my 8ft x 13ft x 21ft audio room.
This.
They are having me put tri traps in the front corners though.
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Have not heard the X-Statik, but as a MTM open baffle design agree that it would be far from my first choice for a mid-field speaker.
What are the limitations / issues going this route? I will probably be closer to 7' away from the speakers. What is the ideal listening distance for this type of speaker design? Lastly, what type of speaker would you recommend...smaller monitors is what I think you are leaning toward.
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You're new around here. Please be aware that though JLM has his thoughts about high quality set up, and many others around here have different views. Unlike those theorizing about the X-Static speakers, I have a pair in a room quite different than yours, but with it's own problems. I have found that somewhat near field listening works much better than I would have thought. It looks to me like your designed set up should work pretty well. Mine are out from the back wall a bit more, and much further and asymmetrically placed from the side walls. My chair is only about 6-7 ft from the front of the speakers. They are canted in toward the listening position about 20*. In this very non traditional positioning, they work very well in the corner of an L shaped room. Yours should work for you as well.
You might consider moving them out 6" and in 6", but experimentation will be your best guide. Oh, absolutely agree that corner bass traps will be a good investment
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Thanks, this gives me some piece of mind. I own a few pair of speakers but given that I recently built my X-Statiks and I like them, I want to use them in this new room. But, I don't want to fight a losing battle either...so you can see my dilemma and concern. I am also going to build a center and sub to go in this room. I may build a second sub since many people have recommended that. The room is being remodeled right now so I haven't had a chance to test anything out. I am trying to figure out placement, acoustic treatment, etc. right now. It is extremely helpful to receive feedback to help guide decisions. Thanks to all!
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In such a small room, a sub might not be needed for music, but definitely for AV. A single sealed Rythmik would be a great choice for music, and a decent choice for AV. I use a two 12" OB rythmik and have been extremely happy with the sound. It really fills in the bottom end of classical music but probably wouldn't provide the decibels needed for movies.
In a small room, even the footprint of small subwoofers becomes a concern. You'd be tripping every time you walked around if you put a swarm of subs in there.
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You'll be perfectly fine with an OB setup. Especially the GR Research designs which have exceptionally good off axis response and mid/tweeter driver integration. The matching center channel will be a good build.
Re: subs - I'd start with a sealed Rythmik servo sub in the front corner. As funds permit, add a 2nd.
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A couple other things to consider concerning the number of subs needed are how many people will be listening and where the seating positions are in relation to each other. One reason for multiple subs is to smooth out the bass response across different positions in the room. So the more seating positions you have and the more spread out they are, the more subs you need to get good bass response at all positions.
With X-Statiks, if you only have one seating position, like in my man cave, one sub is all you need. You can put the sub in the listening position and do a sub crawl which is literally getting down on your hands and knees and crawling around the room to find where the bass sounds best. If this is a location that will work for you, put the sub here. If it won't work there (out in the middle of the room or something), keep crawling around until you find a spot with good bass response that you can live with.
My living room is similar in that there are only two seats and they are next to each other. One sealed sub works well enough for us here also. Initially I had the sub on the front wall but found it worked better behind the couch so that's where it's at. For my wife and I, this is fine for both music and movies. The sub is as 12" sealed GR/Rythmik servo sub with an A370PEQ3 amp. The sub has solid output down to 10Hz which vibrates the couch like there was a ButtKicker attached to it. The low end output is plenty for us when watching Star Wars or Marvel movies. However, it is not enough to rattle the pictures on the wall or the windows at the other end of the 20' x 25' great room. If more output is desired, another sub positioned where it augmented the current sub could be added.
Another reason for using two subs would be to connect them in stereo, one for the right channel and one for the left. This improves the stereo experience but positioning is more complicated. With this type of setup you might want a third sub dedicated to the LFE output for movies and positioned where it works best for that purpose. This is how my man cave system is setup. I have stereo OB subs up front and a sealed sub in the back for LFE duty. Currently the rear sub only plays when watching movies.
Mike