AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: djdube525 on 3 Jan 2019, 03:08 pm
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Was going to put in an order for some bulk cable, and I'm likely over-thinking things as I've read several threads where someone says "Product A is Rubbish, buy Product B" and other threads with the opposite.
Thought I'd try here... I'm planning on buying one of the following:
Belden 5T00UP (10 AWG)
Canare 4S11 (not planning on biwiring, so would combine a pair per banana plug)
Mogami W3103 (12 AWG) or W3104 (4 conductor version of W3103)
Curious as to generally flexible each is (either very to not at all), and overall perceptions of each. Trying to keep cost at about $2/ft... which would rule out the Mogami, but the W3103 is not much more. I'll keep an eye out for used cables later down the road...
Runs will be < 10'... (also why I think I'm over thinking things).
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I bought some 10' lengths of the 5T00UP (10 AWG) with locking bananas from Blue Jeans Cable about six months ago for my Daedalus Apollos. They sounded just fine to my ears. I only replaced them after I bought an 8' pair of much more expensive cables from Lou at Daedalus. Sure, the new cables sound better, but the cost difference is huge. I still use the Beldens for my secondary system, and I see no reason why I ought to spend 10X (or 20X!) the cash to replace them for that system.
I've had a set of 8' 12 AWG Beldens for close to 5 years now that I take with me during my travels.
Both 12 and 10 AWG are plenty flexible. They're great bang for the buck products. Recommended.
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Thanks!
I also touched base with Blue Jeans and given the application, they recommended the Belden over the Canare.
So Belden 5T00UP it is... pair of 8' cables and banana plugs for under $30... should do the trick for now.
-DD
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Go with the Dueland 16ga for $10m. Much better sound than the Belden wire from my experience. IMO.
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Based on a previous thread - forget where - I was going to try this later.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-wire/supra-rondo-2x2.5mm-speaker-wire-per-foot-13-awg/
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The Supra's had a very nice review on TNT. I was a little taken aback after seeing they used tin plated copper, but apparently that's on purpose and not just some mil spec junk they got cheap somewhere.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/sword-rondo_e.html
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I have been pleased with the results of using tinned wire for connecting everything. Maybe because the wires are terminated to plated connectors and all connection points like binding posts are plated?
Always wondered why audiophiles spend mega bucks on 99.99999999% ofc but have no idea about the chemical composition of the connectors on their gear.
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The Supra's had a very nice review on TNT. I was a little taken aback after seeing they used tin plated copper, but apparently that's on purpose and not just some mil spec junk they got cheap somewhere.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/sword-ro
Here's a corrected link: https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/sword-rondo_e.html
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I am very happy with my 10 ga. tin plated copper Western Electric speaker cables.
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/duelund-coherent-audio-dca-series-cables-part-1/ (https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/duelund-coherent-audio-dca-series-cables-part-1/)
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I have been pleased with the results of using tinned wire for connecting everything. Maybe because the wires are terminated to plated connectors and all connection points like binding posts are plated?
Always wondered why audiophiles spend mega bucks on 99.99999999% ofc but have no idea about the chemical composition of the connectors on their gear.
I think you mean elemental composition? :thumb:
But yes, I think mating like for like materials, including connectors makes a big difference. Copper connectors + copper wire + copper posts = An example of an ideal cable setup.
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I am very happy with my 10 ga. tin plated copper Western Electric speaker cables.
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/duelund-coherent-audio-dca-series-cables-part-1/ (https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/duelund-coherent-audio-dca-series-cables-part-1/)
I too have found that wire to have an excellent balance of virtues and have recommended it to many.
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Here's a corrected link: https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/sword-rondo_e.html
Thanks, I fixed it. :duh:
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Not central to the conversation, but.... Note that the original Western Electric wire that appears to have inspired the Duelund wire actually used a (nickel/iron) Permalloy coating, rather than the tin used in the Duelund wire. Permalloy was used for very different reasons than those that traditionally drive the use of tin, namely avoiding oxidation and corrosion. (Tin has only 15% the conductivity of copper, though that is better than the various copper oxides or sulfates that can eventually form at a bad copper junction - so definitely use gas tight connections. Having said that, gold, at 70% the conductivity of copper, is the more common connector plating material used in electronics when one is worried about contact oxidation or corrosion.)
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Having said that, gold, at 70% the conductivity of copper, is the more common connector plating material used in electronics when one is worried about contact oxidation or corrosion.)
Most commonly, gold is just flashed over nickel plating to save cost.
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I've been using that belden but in 12 awg from blue jeans cable for years for multiple systems.. sounds great..
I recently got some canare 4s11 and made some cables to see if the star quad geometry would prevent emi noise pickup or radiation from the speaker cable to interconnects etc as my setups are cramped with cables in close proximity.. the canare is much thicker and heavier than the belden.. I'm using it normally, not bi-wiring.. so two wires twisted together for each banana plug.
conclusion: too close to say one is better than the other but knowing I theoretically an preventing emi from going from the speaker wires to my rca cables is comforting..
if you're ok with a thicker heavier cable and have cables crossing each other I say go with 4s11, no reason not to
edit: 4s11 tip I found online
With Canare 4S11 it is not important which one to use as ground but it is important that you put red & pink together and white & creme together. Otherwise you will not get the advantages of the starquad construction.
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Mogami W8110 is a 10 gauge speaker wire that Redco sells for $1.43 per foot.
I have been happy with Mogami wire and use it for RCA cables and speaker wire. I’m using the W3103 not the W8110, but I know someone that I trust how uses it. I trust his ears and if he is using it it must be good.
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Mogami 3104 is hard to beat unless you spend a lot more $.
Tried lots of cables over the years. Some crazy expensive ones too. I haven’t found anything as satisfying as the mogami in neutrality, bass tone and dynamics. I consider it a crazy good value in the high end audio world.
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Was going to put in an order for some bulk cable, and I'm likely over-thinking things as I've read several threads where someone says "Product A is Rubbish, buy Product B" and other threads with the opposite.
Thought I'd try here... I'm planning on buying one of the following:
Belden 5T00UP (10 AWG)
Canare 4S11 (not planning on biwiring, so would combine a pair per banana plug)
Mogami W3103 (12 AWG) or W3104 (4 conductor version of W3103)
Curious as to generally flexible each is (either very to not at all), and overall perceptions of each. Trying to keep cost at about $2/ft... which would rule out the Mogami, but the W3103 is not much more. I'll keep an eye out for used cables later down the road...
Runs will be < 10'... (also why I think I'm over thinking things).
MOgami 3103 is very good. there was a clarity over everything when I used it. I would recommend it especially for long runs.
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I have used the Canare and think it's a great cable. I used it in my system for over 8 months. I then went back to my reference JPS-Labs. The JPS is better but I could live with the 4s11. I also have tried the Supra Classic 6.0 which I think is even closer to the JPS. This is saying a lot since a 10 foot pair for either the Canare or the Supra Classic is under a hundred bucks. Also both brands have even less expensive wire than these in their line. I will note that the designer of my speaker recommended the Supra 6.0 Classic as an alternative to the much more expensive Cardas Clear. I have not used Mogami for speaker cable but I have used Neglex as interconnects with good results. I really like the Supra Classic for a great sounding budget cable.
http://www.supracables.co.uk/speakercables/spkrclassic.html
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I am just one opinion BUT :flame:
Supra classic speaker wire is the strangest wire experience I have ever had, cloudy, muffed, detail smearing,
the client who bought it from me when i said I was trashing it asked me to come get it off his rig later,
I take note one reviewer said it was such a incredible wire, "it was still breaking in two years later, just always getting better" :wtf:I could not get it to break in, nor could my client, who i warned not to mess with it.
I really did not want to write this above, cause i avoid the "" I am a snoot audiophile anti-music lover, I am more holy then god nit picking anal I will never be happy RUT folks"" at all costs, but that madisound even sells this stuff, scared me off from ever experimenting with what they might think a cross over is, many of which are made by pros outside the shop, so I MAY
( Prey, HOPE) VERY WELL BE WRONG" and I wholly completely recognize they sell some of the best speakers in the world, simply best speakers in the world.
That are often paper by the way :duh: :duh: :duh: I love paper :icon_lol:
it cost me hundreds of dollars in mail order experiments to say the following,
I have never found a tin'ed speaker wire that I could live with, it just sounded surreal, but in opposition to that line of thought,,,The only solder covered RCA wire I have ever heard work is a C2G Velocity RCA IC at not more then 3 ft. the teflon foam dielectric version, just 1 set between a CD player and pre has a astounding ability to warm and slow a CD player into musicality, and remove useless over detailing Bright schlock SHOCK syndrome.
I cut the RCA's off, install better,
cover with braided sleeving and sell for $100.00, often using it to rescue a Bright AS Schik system.
I don't know what they did different then the supra, but the tin finish on the "Stranded" C2G is like a very extremely brite chrome, it looks nothing even like tined wire.
their solid one wire (non optic) digital cable sucks for audio, ringing Etc.
One mans poison ETC.
this link is for the 1.5 ft
https://www.cablestogo.com/product/40005/1.5ft-velocity-rca-stereo-audio-cable (https://www.cablestogo.com/product/40005/1.5ft-velocity-rca-stereo-audio-cable)
PS I researched this company, I tracked down a inch thick, silver coated OFC they made, wild
GR