AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Virtue Audio Owners => Topic started by: ericlp151 on 9 Jun 2015, 05:22 am
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(http://i61.tinypic.com/20p9gxy.jpg)
New change for 3D printed speakers? Looks pretty amazing to me.
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Looks pretty amazing to me as well
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That's an interesting thought. One could conceivably build 3D printed bookshelf speaker cabinets full scale, today, with virtually no limits regarding geometric complexity (internally or externally).
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This is an exciting possibility.
Does anyone have any idea how much it might cost to print a full scale speaker cabinet(such as the models in the above photo)?
Does anyone know how such cabinets would sound?
I imagine a lot of damping materials would need to be added, but that's just a guess.
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This is an exciting possibility.
Does anyone have any idea how much it might cost to print a full scale speaker cabinet(such as the models in the above photo)?
Does anyone know how such cabinets would sound?
I imagine a lot of damping materials would need to be added, but that's just a guess.
There are very few 3D printing processes/machines that I'm aware of, that can print speakers like those in the pics at full scale. I believe the transportation industry uses large scale SLA machines to build full scale prototype pieces. Alternatively, one could 3D print the large speakers in small sections and glue them together somehow......but tgat sort of defeats the point.
The primary advantage to 3D printing is the ability to build things as a single piece, in ways that trying to build the same complex design by hand would be EXTREMELY difficult and time consuming. For example, if someone wanted to, they could design the speakers to have a spider web inner structure to give the cabinets strength and redirect sound waves. With 3D printing it'd be very easy. But to do something like this any other way would be VERY difficult.
3D printing can be very expensive, but as with anything else, the process has advantages. For bookshelf sized speakers, the size of KEF LS50's for example, it could cost $1000's to make just one cabinet. Keep in mind some hand finishing work has to be done also.
There are materials that are very hard and can withstand 1000's of pounds of pressure. There are also soft durometer materials, like rubber. Some machines can build parts with 2 materials simultaneously. One could conceivably build the cabinet out of a hard material and give it a soft port (KEF LS50 example again) as one part, not 2 assembled pieces. Or one could build the speakers to gave a hard outer surface and soft inner, or even sandwich soft material between 2 layers of hard material.
The possibilities with 3D printing are virtually limitless, except for scale. There are few large format machines. My guess is that the machines the auto industry uses cost in the millions of $ as small format professional SLA machines are commonly in the $100k's.
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Google "China 3D printed house" ... it's coming. They're building entire cities with 3D printing.
3D printers will be used to make speaker cabinets, and soon. I've been looking into it myself, and have talked to a few people that have access to large format machines. They can print with all kinds of plastics, but not only that, they can print with metal, stone, and wood as well. For me, it's not just jumping into it and making a cabinet, but first getting a better understanding of the full capabilities so whatever we design/build will be optimized to take full advantage of those capabilities. I don't see any downside. A resonance free cabinet can easily be made by utilizing different materials and wall thicknesses, and the vast savings in skilled labor would in theory bring prices down significantly.
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Google "China 3D printed house" ... it's coming. They're building entire cities with 3D printing.
3D printers will be used to make speaker cabinets, and soon. I've been looking into it myself, and have talked to a few people that have access to large format machines. They can print with all kinds of plastics, but not only that, they can print with metal, stone, and wood as well.
That's what I call a mental blow job.
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(http://cdn.instructables.com/FPN/R9UY/HEQE78XE/FPNR9UYHEQE78XE.LARGE.jpg)
http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-Printed-Speaker-Enclosures-With-Lights/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-Printed-Speaker-Enclosures-With-Lights/)
(https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/58107635/hd/01e68e2646909ae83696fda8976e6618.jpg)
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That's what I call a mental blow job.
I have no idea what that means :scratch:
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(https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/58107635/hd/01e68e2646909ae83696fda8976e6618.jpg)
Very, very cool!
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Google "China 3D printed house" ... it's coming. They're building entire cities with 3D printing.
3D printers will be used to make speaker cabinets, and soon. I've been looking into it myself, and have talked to a few people that have access to large format machines. They can print with all kinds of plastics, but not only that, they can print with metal, stone, and wood as well. For me, it's not just jumping into it and making a cabinet, but first getting a better understanding of the full capabilities so whatever we design/build will be optimized to take full advantage of those capabilities. I don't see any downside. A resonance free cabinet can easily be made by utilizing different materials and wall thicknesses, and the vast savings in skilled labor would in theory bring prices down significantly.
What would you do to fill the void of all that sanding and buffing?! :P
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I don't see any downside.
It's still too expensive.
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Yup. Prices of anything but smaller speakers is going to be INSANELY expensive.
If you're looking to make cost-no-object speakers, then I can see how the 3D printing process could possibly be competitive with current cost-no-object speakers. Note, 3D prinitng won't really lessen the amount of hand finishing enough to offset the process / material cost of the raw 3D printed cabs.
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Yup. Prices of anything but smaller speakers is going to be INSANELY expensive.
If you're looking to make cost-no-object speakers, then I can see how the 3D printing process could possibly be competitive with current cost-no-object speakers. Note, 3D prinitng won't really lessen the amount of hand finishing enough to offset the process / material cost of the raw 3D printed cabs.
Why are you guys saying it's so expensive? The people I've talked with how shown me otherwise. Sure it would be more than a MDF box with right angles, even considering labor/finishing cost. But compared to how we're doing things now, I see potential for huge cost savings without any performance hit.
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The Chinese house mentioned earlier (I Googled it) cost $5k. While it certainly isn't a mansion, it is quite an accomplishment at the price point. So I am also not sure why people are dismissing this as expensive and I'm sure that with another year or two it will come down as with any new technology.
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(http://i61.tinypic.com/20p9gxy.jpg)
New change for 3D printed speakers? Looks pretty amazing to me.
Those look about 5" tall to me.
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Why are you guys saying it's so expensive? The people I've talked with how shown me otherwise. Sure it would be more than a MDF box with right angles, even considering labor/finishing cost. But compared to how we're doing things now, I see potential for huge cost savings without any performance hit.
Hmmmm......this makes me think that there is a pretty big differential in price when building things on a small machine versus large. Using my earlier example of KEF LS50's, perhaps if one were to build several cabinets at the same time on a large machine, versus building the same size cabinets on a farm of smaller machines, the large machine would be advantageous assuming a certain number of cabs built. Same would likely be true of building large items. Do you know what process you are looking into? There are a few different ones, but SLA is probably the most common particularly for making precise / finished products.
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The Chinese house mentioned earlier (I Googled it) cost $5k. While it certainly isn't a mansion, it is quite an accomplishment at the price point. So I am also not sure why people are dismissing this as expensive and I'm sure that with another year or two it will come down as with any new technology.
Speaking of using 3D printing to build things besides consumer products.......
http://www.fastcodesign.com/3047350/this-robot-can-3-d-print-a-steel-bridge-in-mid-air
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If they can 3d print a working glock that functions perfectly im pretty sure a speaker enclosure will be simple.
There is a medical equipment mfg company here in Tucson that has a large scale 3d printer. I'll throw a few ideas at their manager and see what he says.
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Speaking of using 3D printing to build things besides consumer products.......
http://www.fastcodesign.com/3047350/this-robot-can-3-d-print-a-steel-bridge-in-mid-air
Really cool!
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http://www.popsci.com/2015-detroit-auto-show-you-might-be-able-buy-3-d-printed-cars-in-2016
http://blog.caranddriver.com/made-in-detroit-local-motors-printed-a-car-at-the-auto-show/
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/07/08/local-motors-reveales-design-for-transforming-3d-printed-production-car/
3d printed functioning cars are already coming, and at relatively competitive prices. Can high-end speakers be far behind?
One of the things that makes some of the very high-end speakers very expensive are the number of skilled man hours put into building very stiff, sophisticated cabinets. In a few years I bet we have very good speakers with 3d printed cabinets that rival today's expensive high-enders for a much lower cost to the consumer.
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And there was this from 2013:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122203.msg1286604#msg1286604
Cheerio,
KP
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I bet every skilled work is thrilled to lose their job... 3D printing is cool, but it certain aids the robot take over :o
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There are already those making products for the consumer - http://www.gramohorn.com/
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I bet every. skilled work is thrilled to lose their job... 3D printing is cool, but it certain aids the robot take over :o
My immediate reaction is to completely agree with you, but I would think that in the space of high-end speakers, the appeal of hand-crafted speakers would remain for those currently willing to spend what they do. The benefit to 3D printing would be to bring the cost of high-end speakers down to the level were purchases could even be considered. It would certainly allow for funds to be moved into other equipment. I always thought the speakers really drove the system until I bought my current amp. My old speakers sounded much, much better. If high-end speakers became relatively cheap, they could become the "killer app" that brings more people into the world of high-end audio. Wouldn't you arguably have an "all boats rise when the tide comes in" scenario in the hi-fi industry?
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Perhaps that'd be good, especially since I don't do anything with speakers.
But I think we've got a bigger problem that people can't afford to pay someone to hand built something for them. There's enough junk out there so I hope this hobby can try to stay shy of it... One's better off with DIY if funds aren't high!
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Perhaps that'd be good, especially since I don't do anything with speakers.
But I think we've got a bigger problem that people can't afford to pay someone to hand built something for them. There's enough junk out there so I hope this hobby can try to stay shy of it... One's better off with DIY if funds aren't high!
In my personal experience, the first hurdle was being exposed to "hifi" for the first time. Reading about it can't pass on the effect of listening to the amazing soundstage previously hidden in a familiar recording. That was the "hook" for me.
The hand crafted affordability is an interesting issue. I guess a good analogy would be prints of paintings versus originals. Until seeing the original, most folks would be happy with the framed prints behind a sheet of glass. How long did the original take to paint?
What type of lifestyle does the artist wish to live? That's probably his sole source of income and the amount of hand-crafted items available to fund the artist's lifestyle are probably directly related to time available and quality produced. High quality generally means high time, which will translate into higher labor costs than material costs, thus more expensive than something mass-produced. I apologize for stating the obvious, but I'm thinking as I type. There is no easy solution for this. : ). Oddly enough, you might be able to argue that in some areas, 3D printing could be the new hand-crafted. Imagine being able to make many of your own parts in something you designed from the ground up? You can change your designs periodically as you are able to focus more time on development and iterative improvements. You would be your entire QA department. : ).
Going back to the all boats rise scenario and your desire that more folks be able to afford hand-crafted items, a rise in the standard of living for all would be great. Then it would be a matter of trusting the artisans not to raise their prices. : )
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I've become interested in using some 3D printed parts in power conditioners because it would make some things more viable. Avoiding the need to order plastic injected moldings by the tens of thousands has an appeal.
I have to note that standard of living has dropped dramatically in the USA as we've "improved" with technology take over - not sure how a direct correlation would be made.
We may be seeing some rather funky speakers in the future...
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Speakers are too hard to "tune" to go for anything but absolute rigidity. That will require a polymer and process that is every expensive to print at scale. For an amplifier enclosure, it makes total sense and I fully planned on distributing plans last year.
There is so much fun to be had building speakers out of useful exotic materials if you had the tools. For instance, CaesarStone would be totally useful as it is non-resonant, heavy, relatively easy to cut, and attractive.
http://www.caesarstone.com/en/Customer-Service/Pages/FAQ.aspx