[Ears]

There seems to be no U.S. reviews of the sp 1000 yet but the British rag..Home Theater Choice raved about the sp 1000 in last months issue and a French review tested the Marantz 9500, Denon 3910,Pioneer 59avi and the sp 1000 and found the sp 1000 to be sonically superior for all types of music.

Here are a few different excerpts from some German hi end audio and video rags that are already translated to english.
Just click  "test reports" at http://www.onkyo.net/uk/cms/products/home/dvd_play/dvsp1000e

[wshuff]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=121

[Ears]

Word of caution on the secrets testing which does not include q/c issues and lacks an Onkyo sp 1000 review.

The last two top players I purchased both made by Denon were returned for q/c issues and were both rated #1 at secrets who happens to have Denon as a main sponser.

[Marbles]

I was thinking of getting the 59AVi as I can get it for about $950 with a warranty, or $860 without.

How much are the Onkyo's?

I seem to recall that they were about $1600.

[wshuff]

I don't know that any manufacturer has ever made any piece of electronics which didn't have at least a few with problems.  That said, whether Denon is a sponsor or not, the Secrets testing objectively shows how well the various dvd players handle the tests thrown at them to evaluate deinterlacing performance, and those tests are thoroughly explained on the website.  While people tend to view the results as some short-hand ranking of players in some absolute sense, the people doing the testing are pretty clear on the fact that the benchmarks test only one aspect of performance and are not intended as any kind of absolute ranking.  And, as Kris Deering posted on AVS, he receives no money from Denon or any other manufacturer for performing the evaluation, so whether Denon is a sponsor of the site is irrevelant and any implication that the results are somehow tainted because of it seems to me to be unwarranted.

With respect to the Onkyo, Kris has stated on AVS that he would like to evaluate it but has not yet been able to find one.  Given its use of the Silicon Image deinterlacer, I would expect its performance to be top-notch and in line with the other players using that deinterlacer.  Of course, it would still lack the noise reduction filters and other things that the Realta chip is able to provide, albeit at a higher cost.  I would be interested in reading how the scaler in the Onkyo performs in comparison with some of the other upconverting players.  And of course, the Onkyo isn't without its own problems as there have been reports of lip sync errors.  I would be interested to see whether Secrets could reproduce those problems because, but for that potential problem, it seems like it provides the complete package.

[Ears]

I was thinking of getting the 59AVi as I can get it for about $950 with a warranty, or $860 without.

How much are the Onkyo's?

I seem to recall that they were about $1600.

The lowest I have seen them is About 1500.00 And if your just after the video section, the 59Avi is probably good enough whith hi def  players not too far off.
If your after the universal for redbook/sa-cd sonics and build quality with very quick reaction times as well as stellar video playback, then maybe the sp 1000 is for you.

I am not so sure the upcoming hd players will do as good a job with standard dvd as any of todays top players or even include hi rez, so this throws another wrench in any decsion.

That is a very good price on the 59avi so if you have the opurtunity to try either of these players with a good return policy, I would say go for it.

[Ears]

I don't know that any manufacturer has ever made any piece of electronics which didn't have at least a few with problems.  That said, whether Denon is a sponsor or not, the Secrets testing objectively shows how well the various dvd players handle the tests thrown at them to evaluate deinterlacing performance, and those tests are thoroughly explained on the website.  While people tend to view the results as some short-hand ranking of players in some absolute sense, the people doing the testing are pretty cle ...

Well, I made a mistake, I actually bought two 5900's and two 3910's, so its actually four players from Denon in a row whith QC issues.

BTW...I don't consider violently grinding transports and player lockup, not to mention DOA units and macro blocking which was never fixed on a 2k player to be the same thing as minor issues that can be fixed via firmware... so Denon does have more problems and bigger ones than most everyone else from my actual experiences....at least on there last couple flagships.

At any rate....myself and many others have found secrets to be misleading whith its lack of qc issues being included in the testing, as well as actually watching under real world conditions .

The only way to find the right player for yourself is to compare for yourself imo.

[Rob Babcock]

I don't know how any review could address Q/C issues, unless the review peice experienced problems.  Most magazines don't have the means to find long term statistics on the reliability of any product- the only reliable source would be the manufacturer, and they're not likely to volunteer it.  What's left- trolling the 'boards looking for anecdotes?  I can't think of any magazine, print or E-zine, that does that, and for good reason.

With Denon, it might simply be your bad luck, or your dealer got a bad lot.  I've had nearly a dozen Denon peices of the years with no problems at all.  I've never tried those models, though.

[Ears]

ROB,.
I don't even consider Secrets a review as they don't even veiw  the players in action or listen to the audio ect.

When you check out a player for yourself do you use the Secrets method..or do you use your eyes and ears?

BTW...I was one of the first to point out the macro blocking to Kris over at AVS.
At first Kris and others would not admit there was a macro blocking problem until others also started giving exact instances to check and eventually everyone including Denon admitted the problem but never did a damm thing about it and swept it under the rug.

This was a 5900 and to a much lessor extent, a 3910 problem and not anyones bad luck

Maybe you had better do a search on Denon at AVS and see for yourself how many qc issues there are in the last two years because its far more than any other brand.

My Denon dealer is an award winning big time Denon dealer that charges list and I also bought a demo 1600 for my wifes tv that had an h02 code whithin a month and so have many others.

Maybe its more likely that you are the lucky one  as opposed to me being unlucky

[Rob Babcock]

I never read the review, nor do I know how they review things.  As far as the complaints at AVS, I can't know if they're valid or not.  The web is a well known repository for gripes, that I do know.  Maybe those models are junk, maybe not- I can't say.  You're the only person I've "talked" to that's had Q/C problems with them.  Which means nothing- it doesn't invalidate your bad experience.  And since those are somewhat expensive & newer machines, I simply don't know many people that have used one yet.

Ultimately, no one I've ever personally met has had any failures with Denon stuff.  That also doesn't prove anything, but my sister, brother & two of my best friends use mostly Denon, and have for many years, all with no problems.  Despite having had many Denon peices, I've also had no problems.  I dunno what to tell you.  My experiences are valid for me, and yours are valid for you.  Buy whatever makes you happy.

[Ears]

I never read the review, nor do I know how they review things.  As far as the complaints at AVS, I can't know if they're valid or not.  The web is a well known repository for gripes, that I do know.  Maybe those models are junk, maybe not- I can't say.  You're the only person I've "talked" to that's had Q/C problems with them.  Which means nothing- it doesn't invalidate your bad experience.  And since those are somewhat expensive & newer machines, I simply don't know many people that have used one yet.

U ...

Ironically...the large amount of qc issues started with the Chinese made Denons...ie...all the newer models have the most complaints...the more expensive the player, the more complaints which is the case whith any brand.
Denon acknowledges most of the reported problems Rob...so its not just people venting on the net.
You sound fairly brand loyal and I am anything but and will tell it like it is no matter the brand.


To get off this sore topic.... for me anyway, I noticed that Sony has two new hi end sa-cd players.
One was at CES and has built in digital amps..Sony Qualiia 007 starts at 10k plus for options and the other is on Sony Japans website  the SCD-DR1 and not yet available in the U.S and lists for 11k U.S.

This is a good sign that sa-cd's demise rumours are probably just that...rumours much like sa-cd 2 ect.

Now if Sony would get off there duffs and release a lot more popular music on sa-cd

I see Universal is going to release Mark Knopflers Sailing to Philidelphia on a single layer 2 channel sa-cd.

Even though I usually prefer 2 channel hi rez, it seems very stupid to release a single layer 2 channel only disc at this stage of the game.

[Ears]

Back to sp 1000.
Another stellar review in What Hi Fi has the Onkyo sp 1000 as comparable to the Estoric dv-50 .

Although I was unable to track down the Home Cinema Choice issue that had the rave sp 1000 review, this months issue has the top 4 players tested in this order.
1 Onkyo
2 Arcam
3 Marantz
4 Denon

[Ears]

Correction... the What HiFi review actually says that there conclusion was that the Merdian and Onkyo both passed up the Estoric dv-50 and although the Merdian was the overall winner, the reviewer felt that the Onkyo was the "real star"    

This is in the October 04 issue BTW.

[Rob Babcock]

I wish I could find some info on the bass management of the thing.  I can only find one or two reviews, and they basically regurgitate the ad copy.  Do actually have one, Ears?  If so, are there separate programmable settings for SACD & DVD-A or one global setting for both?  

Every company to date has botched this- will Onk be the first to get it right?  I honestly can't afford one right now, but I hope someone has finally figured out how bass management is supposed to work.

[Ears]

I wish I could find some info on the bass management of the thing.  I can only find one or two reviews, and they basically regurgitate the ad copy.  Do actually have one, Ears?  If so, are there separate programmable settings for SACD & DVD-A or one global setting for both?  

Every company to date has botched this- will Onk be the first to get it right?  I honestly can't afford one right now, but I hope someone has finally figured out how bass management is supposed to work.

Rob,
I have been a very happy owner for many months now of the SP1000.
I only use the 2 channel outs for sa-cd/dvd-a.

I believe you are stuck whith 80hz if you set you speakers to small using 5.1 though so I guess no company still has got it right for multi channel audio fans.
I havent heard any owners that listen in 5.1 complain though.


There is a thread at AVS entitled Professional reviews of the Onkyo sp1000 Were there are at least six rave reviews......none of which are add copy....some whith review links for this player.

One of the German reviews says its comparable to the Linn Unidisk, the What HiFI Comparison has it as better than the 6k dv-50 and rated the same as the Merdian g-98 which also cost 6k I believe.

They put the Pioneer 59avi and Denon 3910 in a lower tier than the other three altogether at What HiFi.

Greg

[Rob Babcock]

Let me try once more to explain what I'm trying to say- no one seems to quite get it.  I have no problem w/80 hz as the hinge point, that's all swell.  The problem is that DVD-A and SACD each formats specs a different reference level for the LFE channel.  If you set the bass to spec on DVD-A, it's 5 dB off with SACD; set it for SACD and you're 5 dB off with DVD-A.  No matter what brand you own, you have to compromise.  Most players & mfg'rs make no mention of this and simply ignore the issue.  That's my gripe.  Every player I've seen gives you one global setting for both, when what we need to correctly implement it is a separate setting for each format!

I can't imagine that it could be difficult at all to do this- no hardware would be needed, and just two extra menu screens.  I've asked the reps from  a couple of manufacturers, and one or two acknowledged the issue but weren't sure if new models would fix the problem.

[Jay S]

Has anyone added an aftermarket clock (e.g. Superclock III) to the Onkyo?  Based on a shootout on audiogon, the SCIII apparently made a very significant improvement to the DV-50.

[gitarretyp]

Has anyone added an aftermarket clock (e.g. Superclock III) to the Onkyo? Based on a shootout on audiogon, the SCIII apparently made a very significant improvement to the DV-50.

Just a couple of notes: The DV-50 had power supply mods, too (not knocking the prowess of the SCIII, just something to keep in mind). I own a dv-sp1000, and it's quite cramped in there. It would take some creativity to install any new boards. I might do some light mods to it in the future, but i don't think i'd try adding an SCIII to it.

DV-SP1000 Innards

By the way, i've had a denon 3910 and a marantz sa-14 in my system, and the onkyo is a better source than either, imho.

[Ears]

Another glowing review in DVD Ect gives the Onkyo DV-SP1000 98 out of 100 in there latest issue.

Thats seven raving reviews/comparisons of this "not so little" gem of a player.

[Ears]

Has anyone added an aftermarket clock (e.g. Superclock III) to the Onkyo?  Based on a shootout on audiogon, the SCIII apparently made a very significant improvement to the DV-50.

Not to my knowledge has anyone done any mods to the SP1000 that I have heard about.
Both EVS and Ram expressed interest in obtaining one for mods early on, but as far as I know, no takers as most everyone seems happy with the stock performance.

Mine is staying were it is  even after hd dvd arrives:D