SP 3.0?

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James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #60 on: 3 Apr 2008, 12:36 pm »
Hi James,

With the SP3 having an external power supply as well as a separate audio section would it be safe to say that it will have the same performance as the BP26. Right now i own a BP26 and am considering changing to the SP3 if i don't lose any of the great 2 channel listening i currently enjoy. I know it's still very early in the designing of the SP3 but, is it basically going to be the BP26 with an external video section?

-Mark

Hi Mark,

We are probably going to go with an internal power supply on the SP3 so I will not be able to give you the noise figures till we get one assembled.  The analog sections in the SP3 will of course be the same as our BP26 preamp.

Listening to the SP3 vs the BP26 will certainly be one of our tests.

james


alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #61 on: 4 Apr 2008, 07:48 am »
Hi,

Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.

james



james,

are noise issues the reasons for maybe not implementing usb ?

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #62 on: 4 Apr 2008, 05:31 pm »
Hi,

Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.

james



james,

are noise issues the reasons for maybe not implementing usb ?


Hi Alex,

No noise issues - we have a USB connection on the new Bryston External DAC (BDA-1) and it performs very well.  I will past on your suggestion to engineering.

james

mariusconst

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #63 on: 4 Apr 2008, 08:58 pm »
Hi,

Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.

james


Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius




alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #64 on: 5 Apr 2008, 12:26 am »
Hi,

Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.

james


Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius


hi, marius!

I agree with you in following points:

1) the need of 2 balanced inputs
2) the ability to power the bp 1.5

greetings,

alex.





Phil A

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #65 on: 5 Apr 2008, 01:55 am »
Hi,

Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.

james


Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius





James has already addressed the problem with space for balanced inputs.  I have the pro version of the SP1.7 that has a balanced digital input vs. two toslink and have already asked the question.  HDMI splitters are not all that expensive.  Oppo makes a 3 in 1 out HDMI switcher for $99.  I'll be really happy with one (HDMI) in and one out and be able to route Dolby True HD through the processor.  Without video capabilities, other than to get audio from something like Blu-Ray, unless I'm missing something, I don't see the what the great advantage is.  If you have HDMI from cable, satellite or over-the-air, the sound you'll be getting won't be hi-rez - just plain Dolby Digital.  If you have multiple hi-rez disc players then it might be useful but not that big a deal to get a switcher.  If Bryston is able to fit 3 HDMI jacks (two in and one out) in the space of the optical jacks that would probably be fine for just about anyone.  Optical to coax converters, if needed, are not all that expensive.  I have one.  Before I got HD built into the bedroom TV on the other side of the wall to the main system I took the 'S' video out of the over-the-air HD tuner (in the main system) and converted toslink to coax (so not to have many bends) before going thru the wall to the bedroom so I could watch digital TV.  Unlike PCM, Dolby Digital is delivered in packets much like internet protocol and it is pretty much there or not there so you don't have all the same concerns about running Dolby Digital thru a digital cable as you do PCM.

mariusconst

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #66 on: 7 Apr 2008, 07:43 pm »
Hi,

Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.

james


Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius





James has already addressed the problem with space for balanced inputs.  I have the pro version of the SP1.7 that has a balanced digital input vs. two toslink and have already asked the question.  HDMI splitters are not all that expensive.  Oppo makes a 3 in 1 out HDMI switcher for $99.  I'll be really happy with one (HDMI) in and one out and be able to route Dolby True HD through the processor.  Without video capabilities, other than to get audio from something like Blu-Ray, unless I'm missing something, I don't see the what the great advantage is.  If you have HDMI from cable, satellite or over-the-air, the sound you'll be getting won't be hi-rez - just plain Dolby Digital.  If you have multiple hi-rez disc players then it might be useful but not that big a deal to get a switcher.  If Bryston is able to fit 3 HDMI jacks (two in and one out) in the space of the optical jacks that would probably be fine for just about anyone.  Optical to coax converters, if needed, are not all that expensive.  I have one.  Before I got HD built into the bedroom TV on the other side of the wall to the main system I took the 'S' video out of the over-the-air HD tuner (in the main system) and converted toslink to coax (so not to have many bends) before going thru the wall to the bedroom so I could watch digital TV.  Unlike PCM, Dolby Digital is delivered in packets much like internet protocol and it is pretty much there or not there so you don't have all the same concerns about running Dolby Digital thru a digital cable as you do PCM.

Sorry, I was not interested in a digital balanced input (I think this is already available in the pro model), but analgue balanced inputs and use the SP3.0 as preamp. This would allow users to take advantage of the balanced outputs of the new Bryston BCD-1 CD player.

In regard with the HDMI inputs, as you guessed I was not talking about cable, satellite or over-the-air. These are not true HD transmissions even from an image perspective (native they should be 1080p but currently the max available is native 720p/1080i). As the proposal for the first free HD network has been rejected last week by CRTC, it will be a while until anything in this direction will be native HD.

The HDMI inputs I was reffering to are making sense only in conjunction with the ability to decode the new hi rez formats (Dolby® TrueHD, and DTS-HD™) that can not be passed via digital coaxial or optical. These new hi-rez formats are already availble today with some blue ray players, but soon as the the hi-rez format is over and blue ray is the winner they will become as standard as the regular DTS and Dolby are today with the DVD format. A perfect example is already on the market: the new Denon blue-ray transport DVD-2500BTCI, that has only 1 output (onviously HDMI) and supports with some restrictions a native bit stream output for Dolby® Digital+, Dolby® TrueHD, and DTS-HD™ master audio.
 
In order to use this transport with the new hi rez formats the new SP3 should have at least 1 HDMI input and 1 HDMI outout (for passing through the image without any scaling). Otherwise, in case the new SP3 would not able to process the new hi rez formats, there is no point for an HDMI input as the current digital coax would be used pefectly for audio and the source can be linked directly via HDMI with the TV for a true 1080p image.
The current models (SP2 and even SP1.7) are perfect as long as the new hi-rez formats are not in the cards. But as regular Dolby and DTS are standard today for DVD format and all processors/receivers are handling them, it is a matter of time only until the new Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD™ associated with the blue-ray will become the new standard...

The second HDMI input could be for a SACD player... Sure in both case you could use the multichannel analogue input in SP, but the processing is done in that case by the source and not by the processor...

The third request - ability to power BP1.5 - is trying to minimize the cost of adding phono by eliminating the need to buy the external MPS-2. Otherwise the cost of having a complete Bryson by adding BP1.5 (and the MPS-2) system is much higher in comparison with adding the external phono equalizer from Rotel RQ-970 for just 200$. Eliminating the need to add MPS-2 might count from this perspective...

However, the first request (balanced analogue inputs) and the third one (ability to power PB1.5) are related with enhancing the pream function already excellent both in SP2 and SP1.7.
The core requirement though for the new processor would be related to the ability to decode the new hi-rez formats (passed via HDMI link) that will become soon standard: Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD™... Otherwise the new SP3 with or without an HDMI link will become obsolete (from a processor capabilities perspective) even before it will hit the market...


nicolasb

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #67 on: 9 Apr 2008, 03:28 pm »
On the subject of upgradeability: when thinking about the design of the SP3 you Bryston guys might like to look at the original design of the Lexicon MC-12 processor. It had a rather nice modular design with internal expansion slots into which new DSP "cards" could be plugged when produced, a little like adding PCI cards to a PC. It was obviously designed right from the start for maximum upgradeability, with more DACs than you could possibly want, and interchangeable digital circuitry; and there was not just one slot but several, so that the original DSP could be supplemented by others, not just replaced by them (which might make for easier software design, I'm not sure).

You might also like to look at the way Tag McLaren managed to reuse a surprisingly large amount of the original AV32R in the dual-SHARC version.



As far as SP3 features are concerned, beyond a sufficiency of inputs and outputs and support for all next-gen audio formats I'd also like to see the following (in descending order of importance):

  • Asynchronous upsampling of the input signal to eliminate jitter (as seen in the BP26-DA); or, if possible, actual buffering and reclocking.
  • Parametric EQ (a part of the standard Aureus code library) or, preferably, some more sophisticated form of Room Correction (see what the guys at Audyssey Labs have come up with - they write stuff for Aureus chips). This should obviously be buried in an "Expert" menu somewhere in order to a) avoid newbies who don't understand it making a mess of things, and b) avoid upsetting pretentious audio "purists" who are too dumb to realise that they don't actually have to turn the system on if they don't want to.
  • Dolby Headphone processing (something that is part of the standard code library for the Aureus processor). There should be an option to feed Dolby Headphone output out via RCA.
  • Lip-synch delay setting for use with video processors.
  • Some alternative multi-speaker modes for stereo inputs (something like Meridian's TriField or Lexicon's system, the name of which temporarily escapes me).
  • Genuine 7.1 analogue bypass (i.e. genuine in the way that stereo bypass is for the SP1.7 but 5.1 bypass isn't).
  • A setup routine with a microphone which would exactly determine speaker loudness and delay settings in an automated fashion.
  • An optional headphone stage. (As also seen in the BP26-DA, I believe).
  • An optional phono stage.
  • The ability to produce a stereo downmix and/or headphone output at the same time as 7.1 speaker output, e.g. via the Tape output.
« Last Edit: 9 Apr 2008, 03:38 pm by nicolasb »

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #68 on: 10 Apr 2008, 07:53 pm »
Hi All - Update:

We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features.

April 10th 2008

2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs

3-4 rack-spaces

Top rack-space reserved for video

7.1 balanced out

7.1 single ended out

Larger display

Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio

Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio

Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video

6-8 Analog inputs

7.1 Analog bypass

Stereo Analog bypass

1 – Zone

Digital out?

VCR and Tape loop

Two - RS232

1- Ethernet

1- Dolby headphone


james

brucek

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #69 on: 10 Apr 2008, 08:05 pm »
Quote
We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features

USB ?

brucek

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #70 on: 10 Apr 2008, 09:14 pm »
Quote
We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features

USB ?

brucek

Not discussed-will talk about in next meeting.

james

mariusconst

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #71 on: 11 Apr 2008, 03:45 pm »
Hi All - Update:

We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features.

April 10th 2008

2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs

3-4 rack-spaces

Top rack-space reserved for video

7.1 balanced out

7.1 single ended out

Larger display

Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio

Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio

Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video

6-8 Analog inputs

7.1 Analog bypass

Stereo Analog bypass

1 – Zone

Digital out?

VCR and Tape loop

Two - RS232

1- Ethernet

1- Dolby headphone


james



Hi James,

This looks great, just two questions:

The balanced stereo inputs, headphone combined with the existing Stereo Analog bypass will make a lot of people happy including myself. As the phono option doesn't look to be in the cards, did you consider SP3 to be able able to power the BP1.5 (this would allow users to avoid buying the external MPS-2 power supply)?

Probably it was just missed out, but I could not see in the list the 1 HDMI output - required in order to pass the image signal "as is" to TV/external video processor (with no scaling). If the source is a transport only (ie Denon blue ray DVD-2500BTCI) with only 1 output (HDMI) the new SP3 processor should be able to accept the signal (1 HDMI input audio/video) process the sound and pass the the image signal "as is" via 1 output (HDMI) to TV/external video processor with no modifications.
Leaving aside exactly how many HDMI inputs/outputs - the second question: will the new SP3 be able to decode and process the new hi rez formats: Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD? I read your interview at http://www.monoandstereo.com/2008/01/interview-with-james-tanner-of-bryston.html and you have mentioned the Bryston dream audio product: "Surround processor that handles all the new audio formats with State of the Art sound". Is the SP3 be the product you were referring to? I am asking this as there are a lot of processors/receivers on the market with HDMI inputs/outpust, however all they decode is the DVD standard audio formats (regular Dolby and DTS) for which coaxial digital would be enough...

Thanks,
Marius

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #72 on: 11 Apr 2008, 03:48 pm »
Additions April 11/08

4- Digital COAX in
3- Optical in
1- AES-EBU in?
1-USB in



Hi All - Update:

We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features.

April 10th 2008

2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs

3-4 rack-spaces

Top rack-space reserved for video

7.1 balanced out

7.1 single ended out

Larger display

Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio

Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio

Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video

6-8 Analog inputs

7.1 Analog bypass

Stereo Analog bypass

1 – Zone

Digital out?

VCR and Tape loop

Two - RS232

1- Ethernet

1- Dolby headphone


james
 

alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #73 on: 11 Apr 2008, 04:57 pm »
hi, james!

great features so far! digital aes ebu is something most costumers would agree for (two would be better...).

usb in- at the front or back?

still no phono? not at all? that makes my eyes water :(.


but all in all i am convinced that the new sp3 will be fantastic processor.


alex.







MOZ

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #74 on: 12 Apr 2008, 11:28 am »
James,

SP3 looks great !
When do you think... it might be ready for us (to upgrade/buy) ???
I'm gonna wait for you...  :thumb:

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #75 on: 12 Apr 2008, 11:32 am »
By the way - I am hearing rumors that people are unhappy with HDMI and are looking at alternative connectors.

james


alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #76 on: 12 Apr 2008, 12:40 pm »

...what connector should this be???

and why they are unhappy with hdmi?

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #77 on: 12 Apr 2008, 12:50 pm »
Input from a source:

I'm not all that sold on HDMI . I was looking on the AVS forum and saw an article that indicating something about the fact that the HDMI format might be changing. You might want to take a look at the article.

Also go to www.cepro.com .There are several articles on it as well as some talk on another type port or something else to compete with HDMI that is royalty free.


james

Phil A

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #78 on: 12 Apr 2008, 01:25 pm »
Not that I've used HDMI much (my Oppo 980 in the bedroom is connected to the TV in there via it) and I've heard of problems, but I really don't think realistically there will be a viable alternative.  Not that I'd think it is a bad idea, it's wishful thinking.  It has been bought into by the movie studios (for copy protection) and is mainstream in equipment from rec'rs to pre/pros to Blu-Ray players to HD TV tuners to TVs, etc.  We even have DTS built in DVD players and rec'rs even though that is a niche market as not tons of software is released having it included.  The movie studios alone have enough problems agreeing on anything.  With decreasing sales of software, more and more broadband internet services, etc., risking anything in the way of copy protection is not something that's going to happen any time soon.

nicolasb

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #79 on: 12 Apr 2008, 05:02 pm »
1- Dolby headphone

Ooh, ace! 

:drool:

Is there any chance we might eventually get Dolby Headphone on the SP2 (or SP1.7 with DSP upgrade)? I don't mean "can we have a headphone socket added?" I mean a Dolby Headphone signal produced through a pair of the existing RCA outputs.