AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: moltosolo on 19 Sep 2003, 08:57 pm
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Hi
I am new here and would like to learn form your experiences. I am wondering what speaker cable should I use?
Consider the price of the speaker, I think I'd like to keep the price of the cable as low as possible. Say my budget is under $100 for a 6ft pair.
I am considering the Canare 4S11, or the CC89259 DIY cable.
Any other good idea?
Thank you.
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The best I've found for these speakers are Mapleshades. I know of at least a few other Omega owners that use these, and their low end cables are within you price range (that's what I have). I don't think you can go wrong with them.
I also tried Cardas (good overall), homemade twisted pair magnet wire (very good in some respects but weaker bass than I like), MIT (awful - they were old cables I had laying around).
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I'd used Canare 4S11 in my system and thought it was too laid back. I would recommend Julian speaker cable from Zu Cable. Look for their auctions at Audiogon and Ebay, you can get them within your price range.
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You want good and cheap?
Try CAT5. (A computer network cable. Inside is 4 pairs of 24 gauge wires. You only need a single pair per channel, but some folks twist multiple pairs together.)
Look for plenum grade, single strand.
I brought a 7 foot piece of CAT5 cable from Radio Shack for $5 and made my own. Sounded better than my Kimber Kable 4TC (but less efficient with some loss of bass).
I also got in on a group purchase of cryo'd plenum grade single strand CAT5. Sounds much, much better than the first CAT5 with the efficiency and bass returned. I hear new details in my recordings for $20 per 10 foot pair.
jeff
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Thank you for all the replys.
I have done some research on the Mapleshades GH. It seems a lot of people love it, but it is easy to break. I am going to lay the cable on a walkway, so I think I need a stronger more durable cable.
The CAT5 is certainly an idea, but the twisting is a tough job.
Cryoed CAT5? very interesting, have to do some more research.
Thanks a lot. Keep them coming :)
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Hi Moltosolo,
The cat 5 works great and I have a lot of it at the shop. I put some cables together here for my system with Cardas silver plated spades. I would be happy to put together some cat 5 cables for you if you like. :D
Best Regards,
Louis
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After a little search, I found the design is very important to the CAT5 cables.
JonB, from AA, point out that the 4 pairs 24awg wire in the CAT5 able are all different in length. The difference is about 4% ~ 6%, and this made a big "time-smear" in the sound. His design, starquad CAT5 cable, untwisted all the pairs and cut them to the same length, and use a electronic drill to twist these cable back.
I am thinking if using only one pair of cable of the four to make the whole braid, then we have the same length. The down side is you have to waste 4 times more CAT5 cable or you have to make 4 pairs cable at once, that's a lot of braiding.
Thank you for the offer Louis O, I will email you with details.
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Have to agree with the Mapleshade cables. They seem to have a synergy with the Omega TS3 and Super 3s. It seems that the thinner the wire, the better the sound. I actually used one of those wires which came free with my mini-compo, the kind you can buy for 50 cents a metre and very thin and they sound better than my more expensive but thicker Analysis Plus speaker cables. They may not have as extended highs or lower bass but one listen and you know there is a great synergy between it and the Omega speakers. I'm not surprised at all that the Cat 5 cables work equally as well seeing how thin they are. Louis any idea why this is?
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Hi taketwo,
Your right I've tried all kinds of cables myself and thinner guage sounds better. I get a lot of feedback from customers and reviewers who say the same. Right now I have a pair of Grande 8s at vacuum tube valley for review and David the reviewer e-mailed me that 24awg solid core copper is working out the best. The cat 5 is like this with more conductors. I also wired a pair of speakers for a local customer with solid core silver Homegrown cables and these sound great. The thin gauge cables just seem to have great synergy with the speakers. They sound faster and much more lively.
I may make a change with the internal cable and I wan't to try out some Alphacore or 18awg solid core internal wiring.
Many Thanks,
Louis
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I've experimented with three different gauges of copper magnet wire (awgs 13, 17 and 24), with no twisting, i.e. a single, separate wire to each speaker terminal.
The results were consistently:
- thicker wire: more bass and warmer sound - more coloured midrange, it's like the mids become "thicker" and more congested
- thinner wire: less bass but more precisely defined bass, better soundstage, "thinner" and colder sound, more accurate timbre
This informal experiment was made using the cheap nOrh SE-9 amp and 3.0 Marble speakers.
As you may guess, I ended up using the middle gauge, which doesn't sound notably coloured while still retaining warmth and some weight in the bass department.
Cable configuration has lots to say, of course - these results only apply to the single-wire config. as described above.
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I have used Kimber 8TC cable for years. Now I use it only with my subwoofers. The wire that has worked consistently with any speaker I've tried has been Audio Note solid core silver hook-up wire.
I agree, thin wire works better for main speakers.
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After done some search, I picked up a pair of TMC gold label speaker cable.
From what I read, the thin wires perform better because of the reduced skin effect. Some say the 24awg size is the best for each conductor. So that's why the CAT5 make such a great audio cable.
The TMC cable uses another approach. It use A single copper-clad solid center conductor is used for signal connection, and A single solid copper tubing is used as the shielding/grounding. That means it is using the “skin effect” to its advantage. The disadvantage is its stiff, hard to place it.
So far the result is pretty positive, but I still need more time to see how it works.
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With my Norh SE9 and TS3 setup, I'm using DH-Labs Silver Sonic T-14 speaker cables. Excellent clarity and imaging. They run about $4/ft in bulk. See more details here: http://silversonic.com/docs/prod/
Good review found here: http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/silversonic-t14_e.html
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- thicker wire: more bass and warmer sound - more coloured midrange, it's like the mids become "thicker" and more congested
- thinner wire: less bass but more precisely defined bass, better soundstage, "thinner" and colder sound, more accurate timbre
I agree on the thinner cable. I have used the Clarity Labs Emberglow, approx. 16 gauge (multiple strands of Teflon coated 24 gauge solid core), with the Super 3 and the presentation was very fast and articulate, upper end had lots of air. The bass was a bit thinner but much more articulate and faster.
For a thicker cable, I use the Usher Audio speaker cables which is a 10 gauge design. I did not find the the mids became congested but rather a "fuller" sound over all.
All listening was with tube amps from 12 watts Modified Jolida 102B also wired for triode to 60 watts SE502 PP KT88.
I would say the proper wire would depend on your listening habits and personal taste. For me, I prefered the full bodied presentation of the Uhser (or any other heavier gauge copper) wire. It just seemed to sound better in [my] system.
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i found this site that sell DH lab t-14 real cheap compare to retail,i bought 3 custom make t-14 from him,he's can make any lenght and End u want plus he's also make DH Lab RCA cable also. www.moon-audio.com.btw Louis the Grand 8 sound awsome,i return my verita 2.3 back to good guys after i listening to your grand 8 ,thanks again.can't wait for the supertweeters to arrive. :mrgreen: :D
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Sounds great. I'm very happy your enjoying the Grande 8s. Glad to hear you found some really great cables too.
The Supertweeter should be done very soon and I will post the pictures when they are completed.
Thanks again,
Louis
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I used Mapleshade Double Golden Helix with my Omega TS1-Rs for many months. This is very good speaker cable at the price and I was most impressed with the detail and sense of "air" it semed to provide. Right out of the bag, that is. After extended break in (of both the cables and the loudspeakers themselves) I ended up feeling that the upper mids were somewhat honkey and, especially with female vocals, even shrill. And bass, ever an issue with low powered amps and single-drivers, was simply MIA.
I swapped in a pair of Cardas Neutral Reference and noticed a much more balanced, tame presentation. The fingers-on-blackboard effect in the higher mids was gone and some lower frequencies returned to the show, but after a while the sound just seemed too polite, even bland.
For the past few months I've been using a pair of AudioQuest Mammoth and I'm happy enough to stop shopping (at least for speaker cable). In terms of design alone, that's about as far from the Mapleshades as you can get and still be on the same planet. The sound has filled out all around, IMHO. The mids are lush and enveloping and the bass is present to a degree I hadn't thought possible with this system.
As this model has been discontinued from the AQ line it can be had (if it can be found) at clearance prices, and because of that this cable makes good financial sense with reasonably priced 'speakers like the Omegas. Under a couple'a hundred for a six foot pair.
Have fun.
Bosh
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I think starting with cheap speaker wire is a good place to start. That way when comparing upgrades, in the event something does come along that's better, it wouldn't be so hard to throw away the cheap stuff. That being said, I'm interested in the Plenum Category 5e Network Cable available from Radio Shack for $.35/foot, as described above. Four twisted pairs (I guess total of eight individual wires) of 24-gauge solid copper. So, what's the deal? Do I have to strip away the outer sheath, untwist the four pairs until I have single 24-gauge wires, cut to the same length, and then twist back together? If so, I have a couple of questions.
First, how many single 24-gauge wires per speaker terminal - one or two?
Second, what do I do about the sheath that's been cut away :o ?
Third, if it's two 24-gauge wires per terminal, could I use the four twisted pairs for the Super 3BPC, that is one twisted pair per terminal for the two drivers?
Four, is there any benefit to terminating the ends of the wire with spades and/or banana plugs? Doesn't that just introduce more connections/breaks in the stream? Can you tell I don't know what the heck I'm talking about :roll: ?
Thanks
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By the way, I'm very much interested in these folks as well after reading the reviews. Anyone have any experience? Seems to be a good value without the sacrifice in performance, or so the reviews say.
http://www.signalcable.com
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I use Signal Cable's Analog Two interconnects terminated with Eichman Bullets. These cables measure great (very low cap/resistance) and sound great (i.e. no "sound" at all).
Prices are well within the realm of sanity and owner/designer is an all around good guy. My order was custom, took a LOT of wire and was delivered at least a week before I dared to expect it.
Highest reco for Signal. And if you try their 'speaker cable please check back in with your impressions. :D
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Jim W.
I used CAT6 plenum.
Cut away the sheath to about an inch.
Untwisted the pairs.
Selected one pair.
Bared about 1/2 inch.
Cut off the other pairs.
I didn't terminate - just used the bare wire and 1 pair (+-) per speaker.
There are quite a few 'recipes' out there, but this worked for me.
Network cable is cheap (well, free for me), so it would be easy to experiment. I was happy with the first result, so I didn't go any further.
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I tried singnal cables too, interconnect, speaker cable and power cords.
I like the power cords, it's well built and works great.
But I am not a fan of their interconnects and speaker cables. The bass is not that tight and it didn't image well. I'd rather use just one pair of naked CAT5 plenum cable, or you can try a pair of 24awg silver solid cable cryoed.
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So, le' me get this straight. You guys are only using one single 24-gauge wire per terminal, that is one single wire to the "+" and one single wire to the "-"? Or, is it one twisted pair to the "+" and one twisted pair to the "-"? I guess I can experiment given the cost...
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1 single wire of a pair to the +
1 single wire of the same pair to the -
is what I'm using.
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Yep, single 24 ga. strand of single cryo'd strand plenum rated CAT5 per post. (CAT5 comes in twisted pairs). Best cables I've ever owned.
Reportedly works for interconnects too.
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JLM:
Where did you get your cryo'd CAT5 plenum?
Thx,
Mike
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Mike:
It was a group purchase from a fellow at the Decware forum named Brad (not the Brad above, I've made that mistake a couple of times). He bought 200 ft and I got the last 20 ft. to complete the order.
Just $20, I run them bare.
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Reasonably priced and lots of good information at the website...
Anyone have experience?
http://www.stout-interconnects.com
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I have some stout silver wire interconnects that I got from e-bay a while back. They seems fine to me. Silver is good, and stout has good prices.
But silver is a little fast in a way. It kind of makes the music sound too liquidy, too fluid.
I got a diy that sounds better which is a copper/silver mix. Unfortunately, the material was one of a kind and not available anymore as far as I know.
What I do is if I need two pairs of interconnects, I use silver for one and the diy combo for another.
The point being is that silver is good, but you may need to slow the speed down or whatever the issue is with something else along the line.
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Tom of Hudson Audio and I are going to put together a new affordable loudspeaker cable and an interconnect very soon,
The speaker cable will be first and will use the same Klotz internal wiring in the R versions of the speakers. It will be pure copper about 14AWG and will be terminated in either Cardas spades or bananas.
I'm trying to keep the prices at around $100 for 8ft pair.
Many thanks,
Louis